Just finished fate zero and fate stay night and I had a question
If Gilgamesh can easily wreck berserker, and shirou can kill Gilgamesh why can't archer who is a BETTER version of shirou beat berserker?
From what I got archer is faster and stronger and basically unlimited blade works is a better version of gate of Babylon
Archer can beat berserker in a fight, just not as easily twelve times straight.
UBW is technically a counter to GoB.
Can this thread be dead, or are we just going to tell this faggot OP to read the VN?
>Shirou > Archer at 10% power
Wrong, Archer let him win in their fight, and he wasn't event fighting him on a physical level on the first place. He could have killed him at the very begining if he wanted to.
He can. His mana was just depleted going into the fight after using most of his energy to heal himself. Had his mana fully recovered, he would have been able to beat Berserker.
He used other OP shit like the Chains of God against Berserker that would have had no effect on Shirou.
Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon means he has a weapon to counter to pretty anyone. That's why he is so confident. Shirou would have gotten wrecked by Ea but Goldie got overconfident and thought he could beat him at his own game. When he realized his mistake it was too late.
Let's stop for a minute. Ea is not gate of Babylon. It is a noble phantasm kept inside vault that gate of Babylon connects to. Gate of Babylon as we commonly think about it is pulling noble phantasms from said vault. Gate of Babylon loses to UBW because UBW is faster at producing NPs. Gils problem is that didn't pull out ea until too late. He only does this once he realizes gate of Babylon is being over powered. If Gil wasn't full of hubris he would just always start with ea. However, He wouldn't be Gil if he had a working brain.
For when they're used against something else, in this analogy Heracles as a tank, Archer's "missiles" can't penetrate the armor
he can still kill Heracles, just not with UBW sword rainwhile GIl's can
Higher quality doesn't mean much when they just end up colliding into each other. Gilgamesh's advantage was that he had an endless supply while Shirou's usage drained his mana.
Shirou won because he has skilled at his usage of the duality swords he and Archer had. Gilgamesh relied on pure quantity and the only sword he could use to its full power was Ea
iirc the Chains of God are stronger the more godly the person it is holding is. Given the fact that Shirou can project swords to attack in his vicinity, and the fact he has pretty good battle instincts it would hard for him to be held for any long period of time.
Unlimited blade works can't get past god hand, he needs to overcharge each sword to even be able to hurt heracles, against an enemy many times fast and stronger than him. I can't say why he didn't just use nine lives.
Also does shirou not end up with rin
They seemed pretty close but archer never had any sort of close emotional attachment like a lover to her but it seemed like she and shirou did like each other so maybe they broke up?
From what I get he went on to become some sort of mercenary and maybe he left her during it?whats going on with adult rin?
He can. The problem is mana. Archer killed beserker 6 times in continuous fighting. the problem is God hand provides 11 extra lives. If archer was able to not have to do all the fighting at once. Sure he could defeat beserker. However, killing him 11 times is just far to draining.
>killing his imouto
yeah, next you'll say why didn't he kill taiga.
That's Avalon and is the most broken thing in the Fate-verse.
>Apparently the scabbard is healing only?
>Does it also have defensive powers?
It's also an "absolute defense" and lives up to it's name. Even Gods would have a hard time attacking someone who has Avalon and is aware of it.
>Would it work if u used it to ram someone
Probably about as effective as a tree branch.
Need more edge.
Shirou is so BADASS
Oh shit, meant to post this
I don't get why they just didn't bring in more mages or vampires or something as hired help
Apparently masters are just as dangerous as servants aka shirou and kotomine or the monk temple man that knows karate
Shoulda brought some backup and just wrecked everyone's shit
How can shirou lose to archer if archer killers shirou then archer would not have existed and wouldn't be able to kill shirou the only possible realty was archer dying shirou can't
>unlimited blade works is a better version of gate of Babylon
It's not tho, all the weapons from reality marble are 1 level lower, but he can make them faster than Gil can pull them out
How does it looks, guys? Obviously, is not finished yet, but I want to know if there's a part that you think doesn't fit with the page/looks off.
Shirous projections make weapons and the weapon's history as well.
For example, if Shirou were to project Kanshou and Bakuya(Archers 2 swords) he would also be projecting Archers battle skills with the swords as well that's kind of why he can keep up in a fight.
I'm sure that's not right. He had archers skills only in Heaven's Feel, which he got from his hand.
Otherwise he only gets exp from battles and training with Saber/Rin.
In UBW when they fight, Archer trashes him but decides to let him win in the end.
Well, how much power he had to begin with? We also really don't have much of a clue what even happened during the fight, only that Berserker got killed a few times and that Archer died during that time.
Also berserker wasn't boosted while fighting Archer, not sure how much it influenced the fight, but it's still something to acknowledge.
>Projection (Trace Version) is the personal variation of Gradation Air that Shirou Emiya and Archer use, referred as Tracing due to the unique aria, "Trace On", that is used for its activation. Tracing greatly differs from normal Projection in the fact that not only does it reproduce the shape and substance of an object, but also its entire history as well.
Yeah, the ponytail has me worried, I'm still a bit wary of doing lines. Redrawing Caster's frontal robes is going to be the hardest part, since I don't have any pattern to base it off.
The problem is that you're mixing two completely different things up. Yes Tracing copies the history of the weapons and how they were forged and stuff; but that only applies to the weapons.
The other thing you're referring two is the fact that Shirou is getting stronger and learning how to fight much faster than would be humanly possible by subconsciously leeching Archers own battle experience when he gets close to him due to the connection they share.
Gil would treat Archer as a more serious threat than Shirou. He'd at least use his armor.
While Archer will press him to the wall faster, Gil will also draw Ea faster. So it depends on if Archer can kill him in that time frame.
Archer at least bluffs that he can.
>He is capable of reproducing any sword that he has seen, though Noble Phantasms are always one rank below their original strength and armor costs three times the amount of magical energy, and he is capable of employing its entire history, allowing him to wield any weapon with the same proficiency of its original owner.
Go back and reread Fate and UBW, he was getting dragged around by his projections at first because of the skills he traced, but by training he was employing his own skill and the weapon skill, both.
Isn't UBW only capable producing weapons such as swords? In that case, why would Ea be Gilgamesh's only option when he could simply use shields, spaceship, nukes, or divine weapons? (assuming)
Shirou could pull that because it was a skinless Berserker. I think only his skin has the property of nullyfying attacks, not what's under it (that's also why Caliburn wrecked him)
Not sure I remember that correctly, but basically Berserker wasn't utilizing his full strength during the battle, I don't recall the details, but it had to do something with Ilya having to active something in order for him to be at full power.
And killing Berserker 6 times was quite impressive, but how impressive depends upon the circumstances, which seeem to be unknown.
>The original version of Fate/stay night had it so that she had not utilized the raised parameters of Mad Enhancement at all, but it was changed within Realta Nua having him truly become wild in his fighting
Damn Nasu really can't write.
Lurk more newfag.
Archer killed Hercules several times with ONLY SWORDSMANSHIP.
That is why Hercules said ARCHER GAVE HIM A SWORD BONER SO MUCH THAT HE REGRETS BEING SUMMONED AS THE BERSERKER CLASS BECAUSE HE WASN'T ABLE TO RESPOND TO ARCHER'S BEAUTIFUL SWORDSMANSHIP WITH HIS OWN GREEK SWORDSMANSHIP SINCE IT WAS SEALED.
Archer didn't want to defeat Hercules in his usual way.
ARCHER WANTED TO TEST HOW FAR HE COULD GO WITH ONLY HIS SWORDSMANSHIP AGAINST HERCULES.
THIS WASN'T ABOUT WINNING OR LOSING. ARCHER JUST WANTED TO HAVE FUN FOR A LITTLE BIT.
>Forgetting to write details that would otherwise make character choices look out of character or retarded
Nasu's an idiot who doesn't understand history what else is new. It's kind of unfortunate because Alexander is still one of the most interesting people in history. He wore some of Achilles armor (I forget what it was), His mother was a witch and his father was the greatest warrior until his son.
Illya is not stupid, she's probably on par with Rin in intelligence when it comes to fighting and strategy.
That said, it would make no sense for Illya to not have utilized Mad Enhancement against another servant.
Illya is also playful and confident. Who's to say she didn't think some nobody Archer was worth the trouble. The original or the retcon don't seem so outlandishly out of character either way.
Archer class has the coolest guys though