Dumping a few chapters of this series whenever I have time now that it's completely translated. I'll start where I left off yesterday, at chapter 2.
For those who don't know what this is, it's a faithful adaptation of Romance of the Three Kingdoms by Yokoyama Mitsuteru, the mangaka of Tetsujin 28, Giant Robo, Mars, etc. The art isn't much, I admit, but if you've ever wanted to get into Three Kingdoms but didn't feel like slogging through book, reading this is the easiest way. The 2010 Chinese TV series was alright too, but that skips out on some fun arcs.
DL for all volumes at https://www.mediafire.com/sangokushi
Oh shit, you finished it? Finally time to marathon it, I just couldn't stand being so in to something and having to wait to read it.
How many years did it take you to finish it? I think I remember coming across it in 2012ish.
Well, if it helps at all, the Jin is pretty much the worst of all dynasties to have unified the realm and most history textbooks even barely mention them.
If you want you can rationalize it this way, Cao Wei built up the foundation for the new dynasty. It's just too bad Sima Yan was a fucking idiot and gave so much power to his cousins/uncles/didn't properly deal with the barbarians encroaching on china.
Yeah, just finished it a couple days ago. It took me around 6.33 years. Hope you enjoy it.
Sima Yi only really came to power in Wei towards the end, when other military commanders like Cao Zhen and Zhang He died and he was the only one that could be expected to fend off Shu or Wu.
A lot of what made Wei great was all mostly done during Cao Cao's reign, which is technically before Wei was a formal empire.
Exactly, so who is to say Wei would have fared any better if they had the power? They couldn't even do anything at that point without Sima Yi, so where is this claim that simply a different power distribution would have solved everything and defended against foreigners?
At that point, not one of the 3 empires was gonna do things properly cause they all lacked enough talent on each side.
>so who is to say Wei would have fared any better if they had the power
I personally don't make this claim. All 3 empires existed at a time when climate was unfavourable, regional governors possessed a large amount of power, and new waves of nomadic migration were coming. It's hard to say any one of the 3 empires, even if they united the realm, would have fared substantially better, though there's always a possibility.
Yeah, I know. I just meant for the people who claim that So and So didn't properly give power to X instead of Y seem rather silly, because people that are that damn good usually get their way regardless of how much shit they have to go through, kinda like Cao Cao. Anyone who needs the stars to line up for them aka favorite climate would probably fail one way or another.
Heck in Sangokushi, I'm pretty sure Cao Rui immediately started spoiling himself going full retard building random shit the moment he hears Zhuge Liang pass away. It just doesn't seem likely the Cao clan still had talents capable of unifying the nation and keeping it under control anymore.
Yeah, it's just like the Chinese proverb, "Wealth doesn't pass 3 generations." Although there's plenty of evidence that actually says otherwise, as far as ruling dynasties are concerned in world history, by the time you get to the 3rd or 4th ruler, there's already visible elements of decline setting in. Similar to this is the famous Islamic concept of Asabiyyah, where the initial successful generation gives way to a less ambitious and lazy generations more concerned with the luxuries in life and group/cultural cohesion inevitably withers away.
Decline of civilizations is definitely a fascinating topic to study.
I think how creative and innovative your foundation is set has a big impact on how well your empire or at least your legacy lasts. For example, even though Qin didn't last long, the Great Wall of China still persists to this day. With Han, Confucianism was the guiding tool that allowed the masses to conform and play sheep.
During 3 Kingdoms, everyone kept using their cards which while spectacular from the perspective of war spectators, pretty much means that even the civilian population wises up to all the shenanigans. You can't pull the religion card when Zhang Jiao just fucked over China with the Yellow Turbans less than 100 years ago.
Yeah, more than the actual ability of the ruler at top, I think institutional foundations matter a lot more. With the Han, there just wasn't an effective system to prevent small landowners from falling into debt and a way for the bureaucracy to select competent candidates without heavily relying on the aristocracy. And methods to fix this were always limited by the primitive technological and economic conditions of the time, so it's hard to fault human agents. These cracks in the system just gets worse and worse with time, so that by a couple centuries later, even if you have a decently competent emperor, the whole system can crumble below him as it can no longer hold the torrent of chaos back.
You see the same shit happening with modern-day countries like America. The constitution was made with a specific timeframe and socio-economic setting in mind, but now that it's the first-rate military and economic power, it can't check all the new ways the elites, now richer than ever, are using to exploit or circumvent the system.
So is Liu Bei a cowardly bandit going around raping villagers with Zheng Fei until he gets conscripted into the army?
Or is it the peach garden MUH AMBITION adaptation?
I'd like to think that Han did pretty well holding out for 400 years. Not as great as Rome, but well did any ancient nation come close to Rome and it's aqueducts and shit? They were just so damn advanced. Maybe Genghis though I don't really remember the lasting benefits of the Mongol Empire.
The opening act in the manga is pretty different from the novel. Here, you can see Liu Bei trying to buy tea for his mother, but then gets taken hostage by the Yellow turbans, and now he's rescued by Zhang Fei, which is how they meet. But to answer the question, the latter.
I'm not sure where you're getting the cowardly bandit version from?
There's plenty to be impressed in Roman technology, but if we're talking about the state itself, I don't think it was superior to Han, as it had even more instability than the Han for most of its reign.
>you're this sword to me
Jesus fuck, I must've been blind when typesetting this.
I just think technology is usually what brings prosperity to future generations easier. Well, unless barbarians chimp out and burn everything down. But then again I guess that makes the Great Wall superior in the sense that it's kinda hard to get rid of.
With stuff like politics and state matters, it's so much more volatile. You can claim inner conflict must be settled before handling exterior enemies all you want, but if your neighbors get stronger than you and decide to fuck with you, there's not much you can do.
Meanwhile the stuff that can transcend the lifespan of a nation itself can influence more than one empire or kingdom. That's probably Zhuge Liang's more under appreciated side, is that unlike most of his peers he was a pretty good designer even if his inventions don't seem as sound as the Roman stuff.
While technology is important, I personally value cultural beliefs a lot more when analyzing state formation and disintegration. I think if Chinese history teaches us anything, it's that technology, unlike as depicted in Civilization games, can't just give a flat boost for all cultures equally. Take the invention of paper money for example. First used in China, but quickly discarded and failed to make a real lasting impact due to cultural and geographical factors. Meanwhile, the adoption of paper money made an enormous change in Great Britain.
Liu Beis uncle was the magistrate of Zhuo and payed for his to study under Lu Zhi along with Gongsun Zan.
Liu Bei dropped out and formed a mercenary band along with Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, and Jian Yong. Liu Bei then after working for the Yellow Turbans for a few years got Hired by Gongsun Zan and after wards named himself county magistrate in Anxi.
The imperial court then stripped him of the title because he gave it to himself illegally and Liu Bei murdered the imperial official and fled later working for Gongsun Zan again.
Then he did a bunch of stuff in during the Dong Zhou rebellion and the war again Yuan Shao but other then some hilarious fucked up things he did like trying to assassinate Yuan Shao under a peace meeting its not important and trying to assassinate Cao Cao while they were allies.
After Cao Cao slapped his shit he fell in with Liu Pi who then got his shit slapped yet again by Cao Cao which led him to become a bandit in Runan. During which Guan Yu defected from working for Cao Cao to go be a bandit with him.
This continued until Cao Cao killed Yuan Shao at Guandu and Cao Cao personally to deal with Liu Bei's bandits.
>working for the Yellow Turbans
I have no idea where you're getting this shit from. This isn't the case in either the novel nor Sanguozhi. The rest of the stuff is also very poor summaries of what actually happened in the novel. For instance:
>Guan Yu defected from working for Cao Cao to go be a bandit with him
Did you even read the novel? Why're you even describing Cao Cao as a bandit at that point in the story when he's the Han chancellor?
Not him but at that point, if you're not working for the emperor you're a rebel. If you're working for the emperor like Cao Cao you're taking his majesty hostage. No matter what you do, you're a bad guy.
Guan Yu defected from Cao Cao to go join up with Liu Bei who was a bandit at the time.
Also Chen Shuo's record is very well known for being absurdly biased in the regards of Shu. Pei Songzhi's commentaries are much more accurate. Or Rafe de Crespigny essays and translations of Zizhi Tongjian were also a thousand times more accurate.
I think it's just a more derogatory term certain people use. Rebels usually have a cause to rally to or at least claim. Bandits are crooks that just do it for the spoils.
The point is calling someone a bandit means they are so shameless about their ambitions and greed that they don't even qualify to be called a rebel. Also for Cao Cao, well he was on the side of Han so even if you called him a kidnapper it's rather inappropriate to call him a rebel since he's still technically serving Han.
I mean fuck most of the Sanguozhi's information about Shu was writings and records from Zhuge Liang himself and the vast majority of shit he wrote was vastly different from every other record.
I don't understand why people have a hard time distinguishing between the novel and historical records.
I said in the OP that the manga was a faithful adaptation of the NOVEL, so I have no idea why you're even bringing up ZZTJ and criticizing that the Sanguozhi is biased.
Romance of the Three Kingdoms is a fictional story. Sangokushi is not, and does not profess to be a representation of what actually happened in China.
It's fine if you want to bring up differences between the novel and history though. But please do try to be clear about that.
Let's all just agree that Ikkitousen is canon 3 Kingdoms history. There's no way they could have carved all those fancy ass weapons like in Koihime Musou or steamed enough buns to keep Ryofui sated, but on the other hand school uniforms are cheap and easy to make.
It would probably go on BakaBT eventually. And if it's not on AB, then well, there's not really anywhere that's going to host a torrent for manga. Except maybe Nyaa, but no one just randomly uploads completed shit to Nyaa.
Not as of yet, but maybe there'll be one on bakabt eventually. If you're too lazy to do the batch download from the mediafire link I posted, you can always read online at kissmanga or batoto.
A year? A year and a half? There's 438 chapters and only the early chapters are 50-60 pages long. The later ones are only half that length.
You should just read it by volume instead of relying on these threads though, as it makes for better pacing.