Executive Meddling

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I have no proof but I am like 90% sure the reason TWGOK went downhill as the editors becoming more and more demanding after it got popular enough for an anime adaptation.

After the anime, fanservice increased, popular characters from early arcs returned, and it became far less satirical. It was one of my favorite manga early on, near the end it got so bad I didn't even finish reading.

>>137443792
As bad as editors can be sometimes, giving an author complete control is often worse. Look at any author that started out with editors but eventually got so famous they had to leave him alone, like Stephen King.

I'm more interested in what One Piece would be like. He's in a position where his overseers watch everything like a hawk because it's their darling.

I wonder how much more free and open it would be. If all this kingdom saving post timeskip is partially a result of editors or not.

Oda definitely has a way with characters that I'd love to see unfiltered.

>>137444439
Critique is one thing. Alerting plot is a different one. Of fucking course an author has to stay in control.

If an author becomes bad, then that's the way it goes. It's their fucking work, top or flop.

When editors do their job we get Star Wars
When authors follow their own vision we get the Star Wars prequels.

>>137444622
altering
what the hell was i thinking

>>137444506
One Piece would be way longer and we'd likely get whole volumes involving adventures with other characters that aren't the Straw Hat pirates.

>>137444439
George Lucas.

>>137444506
Oda has basically complete control.

Editors are a necessity. They can and do go too far but an author by themselves is almost guaranteed to fuck up without strong intervention.

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Careful what you wish for.

Editors are why the entire Android arc in Dragon Ball happened the way it did.

>>137445161
Excellently and the best part of the series?

>>137444692
>>137445024
>>137445085
>all authors go full retard like George Lucas
On the other hand, you have Hiromu Arakawa who by all accounts had near-full control over FMA and was allowed to complete the story on her own terms.

>>137445024
best example
the guy had NOTHING but a crazy childhood idea
everyone around him was just fucking jazzed they got some freedom to do something crazy so they went all out and it became something special
I think /a/ knows about Overlord too, since the WN was jumbled nonsense and the LN just gets better and better with each volume(or maybe just translations did).
I think the main problem is your publisher and not your editor. Once you've got a TOEI funding you they expect battle shounens that they can animate like fucking taffy. If you've got some backwater publisher they are willing to take risks and publish your power rape fantasy like Arifureta.

>>137444439
>As bad as editors can be sometimes, giving an author complete control is often worse.
This is true. Look at just about any web novel which then went on to be a light novel or regular novel.

A lot of authors really need someone to curb their excesses.

>>137443792
In Miura's defense, he does actually do research and support his position with data. While gag manga are rarely big hits, they do tend to produce stable long running series. While it's hardly going to produce the famous #1 hit the main characters want, it will provide them with a long term paycheck and allow them to adjust to producing a body of work over the long term, which is important for two broke young men one of whom is newly married. Or soon to be married, my timeline may be off.

He's still a pretty editor, though.

The key is that the author and the editor have to work together. The editor needs to be able to overrule stupid decisions the author makes, but the author needs to be able to stop the editor from forcing in characters or plot twists for the sake of money.

>>137447107
>He's still a pretty editor, though.
pretty shit editor.

Fuck knows where that word went.

>>137443792
As far as shounen jump goes, you get good shit like HxH with risky, ambitious arcs like Chimera ants.

>>137443792
>manga
No, you mean "bland shounenshit manga". So I guess the answer is that shounen might be slightly less bland and shitty, but then again, who actualy gives a shit. All the creators that matter have complete freedom anyway.

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>>137443792
>And it's also of public knowledge Toriyama was pushed to write more and more until he fucking hated his own franchise.

That's not quite it

>>137445161
>>137445225

Remember, this is required reading if you are going to discuss DB on the internet:

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/intended-end/

>>137444692
I like the prequels.

I mean, the dialogue is pretty bad sometimes and the Anakin x Padme is really cringey,

but I like pretty much everything else. Even Jar Jar. He's fun to hate.

And I guess Midichlorians are dumb, but that's so briefly mentioned you can't hate everything else because of that ONE thing.

I actually would've rather seen Lucas's next Star Wars instead of The Force Awakens. At least we would've gotten something new instead of A New Hope all over again.

Of course Lucas wasn't going to make any more, and I think the new Star Wars movies will get better once they start doing their own thing instead of copying the old movies.

>>137443792

If you want to see manga with total authorial freedom, read editions of manga magazines like Garo and AX, or the "Alive" compilation that American licensor Gen Manga did a couple of years back.

A lot of it's total rubbish. As much as we pine for creative freedom, there are times when you do need an editor to extract the artist from his own arse.

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>>137447881
>I like the prequels.
Listen buddy, I'm not saying you are wrong but there's at least 5 hours or well-crafted arguments by one single dude to oppose your opinion. And I'm not saying this just to blindly follow Red Letter Media, but even without that analysis, those movies are bland, poorly directed, poorly acted and generally bad movies that only have brand recognition going for them.
The Bayformers movies have more artistic merit.

>>137443792
Editors are vital in keeping an author from going off the rails.

That said, part of Jump's problem is the editorial board relies too heavily on fan letters, post card voting and character popularity polls. Even though 80% of Jumps readership is male, 80% of the feedback comes from female readers.
Oda and Sorachi have both remarked on the pressure they've faced to pander to female readers more.

>>137448231
>The Bayformers movies have more artistic merit.
Alright.

Maybe it's not so fucking black or white huh?

Maybe there are manga authors out there that need to have their hands held because if you let them they go full retard.

And maybe there are manga authors out there that are stifled by asshole editors that think they know more than the actual creator.

>>137448948
I AM DIRECTLY BELOW THE ENEMY"S SCROTUM!

>>137445046
No he doesn't, Oda's editor just approved all his ideas when he was planning it.

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It's often extremely hard to judge because you never can tell what stuff is changed or ordered by the editor, unless we're talking like literally editor's self insert appearing in the manga like pic related.

>>137450162
>Oda's editor
>Approved of his okama obsession
It's Japan, I'll believe it.

>>137450402
>http://www.kanzenshuu.com/intended-end/

Yakitate Japan, right? I read to the end of the manga and well, shit got stretched pretty fucking badly by the end of the tournament in France alone... by the end I finished it mostly out of spite.

Wonder what the fuck happened behind the scenes there?

>>137451266
Although there's much rumour in the Japanese web what's clear is that Gasbell's author and the Shounen Sunday's staff had a major falling out, leading to eventual lawsuit between them. Yakitate Japan and Wild Life's editor was known to be a major dick and both of these essentially got involved in some form of internal publisher politics game.

I find it that the three fat guys in bakuman are:
- a disgusting creep
- an incompetent editor that sets back the heroes
- a loser talking shit about voice actresses on the internet

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>>137443792
Probably depends on the editor that got assigned to the artist. There are probably good one and horrible ones. The show Nozaki-kun shows good example of this with that one irresponsible editor that keeps asking the artist to put on Tanuki on every piece of work they do and Nozaki's editor that actually knows and understand how the artist works.

And leaving artist/author on their own can be really destructive too like what happened in Bamboo Blade when the editor lets the artist wrote whatever he wanted and turned everything into a horrible pile of mess.

>>137453467
>And leaving artist/author on their own can be really destructive too like what happened in Bamboo Blade when the editor lets the artist wrote whatever he wanted and turned everything into a horrible pile of mess
I was just about to start it, what kind of shit I'm getting into?

>>137444439
Or Togashi. That guy does whatever he wants and Shueisha still has to keep paying him.

>>137448715
They actually brought this up in Bakuman. But in Oba's typical way, he went too far and used it as a soapbox to say that the opinions of girls that send fan letters are irrelevant and should be ignored, because manga is a man's world.

>>137454540
His work is still good though.

>>137454683
The Chimera Ant arc ran for way too long, I wish his editors had convinced him to cut it short and stop dragging things so much

>>137452447
Because it's a very cheap, simple, and low brow way of making a character more unappealing.

For example, a creepy stalker who is beautiful is unsettling but might also turn on girls who like bad boys. A creepy stalker who looks average and is very skinny just comes off as unsettling. A creepy stalker who is also fat and sweaty comes off as unsettling and absolutely disgusting.

Bakuman isn't exactly a pinnacle of character design or anything. The two main characters love each other and vow to marry each other despite having spent no real time with one another and constantly arguing like immature brats.

>>137454759
The ant arc was the length it needed to be, you're probably judging it on the anime

>>137450402
Most importantly, we only ever find out about the bad stuff because those are the only things authors usually say. We rarely find out about all the positive changes editors made and all the series they salvaged from being ruined by the author's bad ideas.
As a Marvel comics editor once put it
>“Creators get the credit, Editors get the blame.”

>>137455022
Nope, I've never even seen the anime.

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>>137453563
Introduce a really strong rival for the mc. Build up her character and hype for an epic mc vs a really strong competitor. The so called rival is not by mc but this one mary sue character that is introduced later in the manga. What makes it worst is she is an outsider and have no connection whatsoever with the mc and her teammates, is an idol who is really good in anything she does without putting much effort and suddenly becomes a kendo powerhouse even when she already quit doing kendo for a while. The manga spends like 10 chapter of her going against this supossedly mc fated rival. And what does the mc do while all of this happening? Being told by sensei to be a good girl and watch the fight till the end and about learning and growing up bullshit despite being hailed as a very strong and talented character. The mangaka took the fight away from the mc, her fated rival lost to a mary sue that steal the spotlight from the main team of the manga. When it finally time for the mc to face the her destined ulltra super powerful rival the scene cut out and the manga end probably to negative feedback of the bullshit that the mangaka pull.. So you never actually see them fighting. The final tankoubon had the mary sue as the cover.

Also the mangaka aware of his bullshit with this really long afterwords realizing how much of mess it is.

what qualifications do you need to be considered a good editor? how are their wage/workload compared to an author

>>137455450
That's a real shame. I remember being really fond of the series when the anime was airing. But if that's how things when down then I don't feel bad for not continuing it.

>>137455450
There's supposedly an entire Bamboo blade mythology now with Bamboo Blade B, C and D. But honestly I can't be assed and to me Shinohayu is a much better successor to what made the original good.

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This makes me wonder.
Grant Morrison has it in his contract that editors can't touch his work.
Who is the Japanese Morrison?

>>137450402

The self insert is not afro superman?

But yes, yakitate sure gone full bullshit, even the anime original ending was way better

>>137456061
I'm still mad to every time I think about it, Tamaki deserves better. Not this kind of bullshit progression.

>>137456156
I tried reading those but the author seems to ignore Tamaki and the Muroe kendo team despite being the flagship team of the franchise. Really pisses me off.

>editors pushing fanservice
but it's the editor's fault that harem protagonists are allergic to pussy

>>137443792
In my experiance artists who have total creative freedom and lack editor input/control end up with their heads far up their own asses, their works getting incoherent and sloppy, and the artists themselves end up lazy and miss deadlines more often because they aren't "inspired" or "In the mood" or other crap that an editor would bust their balls over previously.

The editor job exists for a reason. There are bad editors, and ones who try to control the project too much, but a decent editor really keeps the artist on track and grounded.

>>137455450
FUCKING BAMBOO BLADE, poor Tamaki stopped being relevant

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If ONE had an editor, you'd get a regular OPM release.

>>137457715
Why would he need an editor for a comic he shits out whenver he has 5 minutes to spare? You do know that OPM isn't his only comic, right?

>>137448715
I think Oda's problem is more that his editors have to force him to take breaks so he doesn't literally fucking work himself to death. The dude's nuts.

>>137457715
And also characters and events built for popularity and merchandising.

>>137455450
You left the 'best' part: that whole arc is about a reality TV show.
And there's also a nonsensical chapter about evil spirits (???).

I wish I stuck to the anime.