I often wonder how would series go if the author had total freedom to write and draw it. If they were free from executives ruining their works by ordering them to appeal to fans through fan service and focusing on popular characters. But not only that, if they were also unrestricted by public opinion, not having to care about age restrictions or acceptance of works.
As far as it is known, for example, fucking Sasuke wouldn't exist were it not by the editor buzzing Kishimoto to create a rival to the MC. In Bleach, Ichigo's classmates were supposed to be significant characters. There is also the episode of Isayama saying he'd change Shingeki no Kyojin's ending because he didn't expect the story to become popular. And it's also of public knowledge Toriyama was pushed to write more and more until he fucking hated his own franchise.
How would famous manga go if the authors had total freedom? It would be pure and unscathed art. I believe they'd come out better, editors only existing to give tips at most, never having power to threat, and the authors appealing to fans only when they wanted to do so, not for money. I wonder how much different would plots be, and how unapologetically harsh some story events could turn. The very structure of some series could change on the go, the genre itself umpredictally changing whenever needed.
I have no proof but I am like 90% sure the reason TWGOK went downhill as the editors becoming more and more demanding after it got popular enough for an anime adaptation.
After the anime, fanservice increased, popular characters from early arcs returned, and it became far less satirical. It was one of my favorite manga early on, near the end it got so bad I didn't even finish reading.
As bad as editors can be sometimes, giving an author complete control is often worse. Look at any author that started out with editors but eventually got so famous they had to leave him alone, like Stephen King.
I'm more interested in what One Piece would be like. He's in a position where his overseers watch everything like a hawk because it's their darling.
I wonder how much more free and open it would be. If all this kingdom saving post timeskip is partially a result of editors or not.
Oda definitely has a way with characters that I'd love to see unfiltered.
Critique is one thing. Alerting plot is a different one. Of fucking course an author has to stay in control.
If an author becomes bad, then that's the way it goes. It's their fucking work, top or flop.
Careful what you wish for.
>all authors go full retard like George Lucas
On the other hand, you have Hiromu Arakawa who by all accounts had near-full control over FMA and was allowed to complete the story on her own terms.
the guy had NOTHING but a crazy childhood idea
everyone around him was just fucking jazzed they got some freedom to do something crazy so they went all out and it became something special
I think /a/ knows about Overlord too, since the WN was jumbled nonsense and the LN just gets better and better with each volume(or maybe just translations did).
I think the main problem is your publisher and not your editor. Once you've got a TOEI funding you they expect battle shounens that they can animate like fucking taffy. If you've got some backwater publisher they are willing to take risks and publish your power rape fantasy like Arifureta.
>As bad as editors can be sometimes, giving an author complete control is often worse.
This is true. Look at just about any web novel which then went on to be a light novel or regular novel.
A lot of authors really need someone to curb their excesses.
In Miura's defense, he does actually do research and support his position with data. While gag manga are rarely big hits, they do tend to produce stable long running series. While it's hardly going to produce the famous #1 hit the main characters want, it will provide them with a long term paycheck and allow them to adjust to producing a body of work over the long term, which is important for two broke young men one of whom is newly married. Or soon to be married, my timeline may be off.
He's still a pretty editor, though.
The key is that the author and the editor have to work together. The editor needs to be able to overrule stupid decisions the author makes, but the author needs to be able to stop the editor from forcing in characters or plot twists for the sake of money.
No, you mean "bland shounenshit manga". So I guess the answer is that shounen might be slightly less bland and shitty, but then again, who actualy gives a shit. All the creators that matter have complete freedom anyway.
>And it's also of public knowledge Toriyama was pushed to write more and more until he fucking hated his own franchise.
That's not quite it
Remember, this is required reading if you are going to discuss DB on the internet:
I like the prequels.
I mean, the dialogue is pretty bad sometimes and the Anakin x Padme is really cringey,
but I like pretty much everything else. Even Jar Jar. He's fun to hate.
And I guess Midichlorians are dumb, but that's so briefly mentioned you can't hate everything else because of that ONE thing.
I actually would've rather seen Lucas's next Star Wars instead of The Force Awakens. At least we would've gotten something new instead of A New Hope all over again.
Of course Lucas wasn't going to make any more, and I think the new Star Wars movies will get better once they start doing their own thing instead of copying the old movies.
If you want to see manga with total authorial freedom, read editions of manga magazines like Garo and AX, or the "Alive" compilation that American licensor Gen Manga did a couple of years back.
A lot of it's total rubbish. As much as we pine for creative freedom, there are times when you do need an editor to extract the artist from his own arse.
>I like the prequels.
Listen buddy, I'm not saying you are wrong but there's at least 5 hours or well-crafted arguments by one single dude to oppose your opinion. And I'm not saying this just to blindly follow Red Letter Media, but even without that analysis, those movies are bland, poorly directed, poorly acted and generally bad movies that only have brand recognition going for them.
The Bayformers movies have more artistic merit.
Editors are vital in keeping an author from going off the rails.
That said, part of Jump's problem is the editorial board relies too heavily on fan letters, post card voting and character popularity polls. Even though 80% of Jumps readership is male, 80% of the feedback comes from female readers.
Oda and Sorachi have both remarked on the pressure they've faced to pander to female readers more.
Maybe it's not so fucking black or white huh?
Maybe there are manga authors out there that need to have their hands held because if you let them they go full retard.
And maybe there are manga authors out there that are stifled by asshole editors that think they know more than the actual creator.
It's often extremely hard to judge because you never can tell what stuff is changed or ordered by the editor, unless we're talking like literally editor's self insert appearing in the manga like pic related.
Yakitate Japan, right? I read to the end of the manga and well, shit got stretched pretty fucking badly by the end of the tournament in France alone... by the end I finished it mostly out of spite.
Wonder what the fuck happened behind the scenes there?
Although there's much rumour in the Japanese web what's clear is that Gasbell's author and the Shounen Sunday's staff had a major falling out, leading to eventual lawsuit between them. Yakitate Japan and Wild Life's editor was known to be a major dick and both of these essentially got involved in some form of internal publisher politics game.
Probably depends on the editor that got assigned to the artist. There are probably good one and horrible ones. The show Nozaki-kun shows good example of this with that one irresponsible editor that keeps asking the artist to put on Tanuki on every piece of work they do and Nozaki's editor that actually knows and understand how the artist works.
And leaving artist/author on their own can be really destructive too like what happened in Bamboo Blade when the editor lets the artist wrote whatever he wanted and turned everything into a horrible pile of mess.
>And leaving artist/author on their own can be really destructive too like what happened in Bamboo Blade when the editor lets the artist wrote whatever he wanted and turned everything into a horrible pile of mess
I was just about to start it, what kind of shit I'm getting into?
They actually brought this up in Bakuman. But in Oba's typical way, he went too far and used it as a soapbox to say that the opinions of girls that send fan letters are irrelevant and should be ignored, because manga is a man's world.
Because it's a very cheap, simple, and low brow way of making a character more unappealing.
For example, a creepy stalker who is beautiful is unsettling but might also turn on girls who like bad boys. A creepy stalker who looks average and is very skinny just comes off as unsettling. A creepy stalker who is also fat and sweaty comes off as unsettling and absolutely disgusting.
Bakuman isn't exactly a pinnacle of character design or anything. The two main characters love each other and vow to marry each other despite having spent no real time with one another and constantly arguing like immature brats.
Most importantly, we only ever find out about the bad stuff because those are the only things authors usually say. We rarely find out about all the positive changes editors made and all the series they salvaged from being ruined by the author's bad ideas.
As a Marvel comics editor once put it
>“Creators get the credit, Editors get the blame.”
Nope, I've never even seen the anime.
Introduce a really strong rival for the mc. Build up her character and hype for an epic mc vs a really strong competitor. The so called rival is not by mc but this one mary sue character that is introduced later in the manga. What makes it worst is she is an outsider and have no connection whatsoever with the mc and her teammates, is an idol who is really good in anything she does without putting much effort and suddenly becomes a kendo powerhouse even when she already quit doing kendo for a while. The manga spends like 10 chapter of her going against this supossedly mc fated rival. And what does the mc do while all of this happening? Being told by sensei to be a good girl and watch the fight till the end and about learning and growing up bullshit despite being hailed as a very strong and talented character. The mangaka took the fight away from the mc, her fated rival lost to a mary sue that steal the spotlight from the main team of the manga. When it finally time for the mc to face the her destined ulltra super powerful rival the scene cut out and the manga end probably to negative feedback of the bullshit that the mangaka pull.. So you never actually see them fighting. The final tankoubon had the mary sue as the cover.
Also the mangaka aware of his bullshit with this really long afterwords realizing how much of mess it is.
There's supposedly an entire Bamboo blade mythology now with Bamboo Blade B, C and D. But honestly I can't be assed and to me Shinohayu is a much better successor to what made the original good.
This makes me wonder.
Grant Morrison has it in his contract that editors can't touch his work.
Who is the Japanese Morrison?
I'm still mad to every time I think about it, Tamaki deserves better. Not this kind of bullshit progression.
I tried reading those but the author seems to ignore Tamaki and the Muroe kendo team despite being the flagship team of the franchise. Really pisses me off.
In my experiance artists who have total creative freedom and lack editor input/control end up with their heads far up their own asses, their works getting incoherent and sloppy, and the artists themselves end up lazy and miss deadlines more often because they aren't "inspired" or "In the mood" or other crap that an editor would bust their balls over previously.
The editor job exists for a reason. There are bad editors, and ones who try to control the project too much, but a decent editor really keeps the artist on track and grounded.
If ONE had an editor, you'd get a regular OPM release.