Told you dummies for YEARS that they are actually the good guys.
From their (educated) POV they knew more about what was going on and were out to accomplish something. They've been working to help the world all along, they simply couldn't reveal themselves without jeopardizing everything. Sure, innocents died but that's because of those in control of the city and possibly beyond. They positioned those people to be sacrificed as their defense, BRA can't be held responsible for their deaths. It was an unavoidable situation no doubt.
You were all blinded and wanted to blame them when it was the puppet masters all along you should have been upset with.
Also fuck yeah Annie
Fuck no, Marco...
I want to hug Bert and make sure he's safe from all threats.
It looks more like a typical war where the titan side believes humans are evil and should be exterminated, probably because of the first king's actions.
I think they believe enough. They started this as children so they were indoctrinated pretty easily but I'm sure the legacy of evil the city has goes pretty far back. And we know it didn't end.
The city probably represents everything that destroyed the world so long ago at its roots.
Nope, BRA had more information all along.
Also, I said 'technically'
You are being incompetent.
>This makes BRA even more the bad guys
It's LITERALLY been explained to you for YEARS that they couldn't risk exposing themselves to tell people.
You're genuinely behaving like a moron.
You can feel bad that you didn't figure out BRA over the last few years, but don't behave like this.
>This makes BRA even more the bad guys
Upholding a mission and its priorities that's larger than any single settlement would make every government or military power in the world "bad guys" you idiot.
>It's LITERALLY been explained to you for YEARS that they couldn't risk exposing themselves to tell people.
What does that have to do with them being bad guys? Are you retarded?
>The city probably represents everything that destroyed the world so long ago at its roots.
Sure, that's why the war began and Zeke still believes this, but BRA grew up next to humans and sympathized with them. It's like any other war where innocent people die for religious reasons or their ancestors' bullshit, so technically BRA are mere soldiers and definitely not the good or the bad guys.
You must not be very bright.
BRA were never villains because they've been trying to do the right thing from the start. They couldn't afford to try and communicate this with anyone in the city.
The point was from THEIR POV they've always been good guys trying to stop evil
And what's been argued FOR YEARS is that they really are 100% the good guys beyond POV because they're trying to fight what destroyed the world to begin with all those years ago which would bring them out of solely POV and outright heroes even if they have to sacrifice innocents. That's where all of this is going, they're trying to do the right thing all along.
Eren and co are all just ignorant of that.
Never seen anyone do that, hard to believe you.
>BRA were never villains because they've been trying to do the right thing from the start.
Same goes for the SL. They never did a bad thing, even without knowing much. Also we don't know if whatever BRA is doing is the right thing.
>Same goes for the SL
You really can't get over the fact they were technically the bad guys because of who they were serving, huh?
Not all stormtroopers were blackhearted evil but were still technically the bad guys. Though they were probably...(MAYBE) more informed than the SL. Though there's lies being told to both of them no doubt.
SL realized in the end that they were serving the wrong people and rebelled, so there's that.
The point is that even though they had ignorance they were still technically the bad guys either way.
BRA were technically the bad guys at first but we have so much evidence now it's clear they've been trying to do the right thing all along no doubt and innocents happened to die because of it.
SL served ignorantly.
BRA acted without us knowing everything.
I like Annie BECAUSE of her suppressing her own humanity. It would be all the more satisfying to support her and be the reason she turns sides.
Plus it'd be fun to fuck her athletic brains out.
>from THEIR POV they've always been good guys trying to stop evil
No, from THEIR POV they're monsters and deserve to die for what they did, but they still do it because it's their mission and they're also threatened by Zeke. There's no turning back after what they did.
>they really are 100% the good guys beyond POV
We don't know about that, the most insight we ever got was Bert's talk in 48 and the only thing he said is that someone has to do this. We still have no clue what their cause is.
>No, from THEIR POV they're monsters and deserve to die for what they did
All factions have soldiers feel that way because of the horror of war, it doesn't make it true. This is especially so because of those that live among the enemy populace....OH, what a coincidence....
>We still have no clue what their cause is.
It's been quite foreshadowed from the beginning they're trying to do the right thing.
>It's been quite foreshadowed from the beginning they're trying to do the right thing
Or they simply have been brainwashed into believing they do the right thing. They were kids, must have been pretty easy to do that.
They're another faction of humans fighting to save the world, they simply can't trust Eren's people because of the bad blood between them from long ago, that's what all this will be about.
BRA and Eren will team up to fight the evil beyond them all that Reiner alluded to.
>Implying Sieg is evil
Which is exactly what they're doing no matter how rough and brutal it is.
Remember that Eren has killed countless innocent people that were turned into titans, it's unlikely that every single one they encounter became one of their own free will.
And we're past the point of ignorance now, Eren STILL kills them after all the knowledge they've gathered. Why? Because you have to.
BRA's doing what they have to. The coordinator has the power to control the titans and likely end this all forever. That's worth killing for.
The original coordinator no doubt commanded the formation of that city, there's no reason to think that feat of power had to end with them.
Meaning this grand power to save the world has been sitting here as the rest of the world suffers. Think about the rest of the world and its people.
>Infiltrate an innocent group of people
>intend to steal their only defense against being completely slaughtered
>brutally butcher the ones that get in the way
>commit acts that lead to the loss of hundreds of thousands of lives
But it's ok, bc they have the moral high ground
Pic related: you
>intend to steal their only defense against being completely slaughtered
The coordinator doesn't need to be there to keep them asleep, it's too unlikely. They wouldn't need to sleep if that were the case, and waking them wouldn't matter.
The walls won't go anywhere no matter what happens to the coordinator.
As Pixis pointed out, the walled city and it inhabitants are more like the nazis. They wanted to unite people by creating an enemy they could all fight against. Sounds like nazis to me
Both sides are simply wrong and believe whatever they do is the right thing. The SL just want to protect humanity and BRA probably wants to protect their village. We don't really know why they need the coordinate yet. I doubt they want to get rid of titans, seeing how MT just creates more for fun.
>The SL just want to protect humanity
The wall people is just another faction, it's proved they aren't the only humanity left. SL only fights for the walls, not humanity itself.
>Sure, innocents died but that's because of those in control of the city and possibly beyond
Yeah how dare those fuckers in the city force BRA at gunpoint to destroy the gates and let the titans in, therefore killing countless civilians. BRA and their faction had no responsibility in that at all.
>Both sides are simply wrong and believe whatever they do is the right thing
BRA's side know the true history of the world and fighting to undo things, that's why they bring up the history of the world. So things can be changed. Walled city is stagnation and the epitome of selfishness whether or not if it was through ignorance.
And making titans doesn't mean they don't want to get rid of them, what kind of terrible logic is that?
>HURR WHY TURN INTO TITANS IF YOU WANT TO GET RID OF THEM
You use the resources at your disposal to accomplish your goals.
It was the only method to sneak in and blend with the populace believably.
And becoming part of the populace was the only way to find the coordinator which literally controls titans. Which is being squandered while the rest of the world suffers.
Would you rather
Get Bert backstory even though it's predictably boring by now but will be satisfying finally having his complete story
Get more MT and backstory and have Isayama potentially ruin this exciting wildcard we all have high hopes for?
I will never like any of the side switching or team up ideas. It totally destroys anything interesting about the conflict and it's just doesn't make any sense for them to do it. It's illogical for Bert, Reiner, or Annie to be forgiven for the sort of things they've done, or for any of them to be trusted even the tiniest bit ever again when they've proven they can't be trusted at all, or for any of them to just give up and defect after they've already gone through so much without already doing that. And it's equally illogical for anyone else to head on over to BRA's side after what that side has done to their home. I get that people want them to all be friends again or whatever but I just don't think it would be a good way to go with this.
>Isayama has never shied away from showing horrible deaths and injuries
>Characters cut in half, stabbed, faces blown off by gunshots, crushed against trees
>Even main characters aren't safe, especially enemy shifters
>One day we're going to have to watch Annie injured and killed
>Probably end up seeing her head cut off because Shifters are so hard to kill
>Blood dripping from her severed neck
>Her beautiful blue eyes looking out sightlessly at the world
I don't think I'll be able to handle it
>The point was from THEIR POV they've always been good guys trying to stop evil
And yet 5 years interacting with people from MRS should have been more than enough to make them realize that the vast majority of those people aren't "evil" at all, except perhaps for the government leaders who oppress the masses too.
Annie from the start never implied she believed, she refers to herself as a shit that only goes with the flow. Reiner broke down because he was starting to see it too, like he said when revealed himself to Eren he no longer knew after meeting the people in the Walls. Maybe Bert still believes but it's clear the primary reason BRA are doing this is just to go home again, they're not zealots to the cause anymore.
If BRA's side is good, why stop Ymir from telling Eren who the real enemy is, especially when as far as BR knew, they already had him secured until they got back to their hometown inand he can't blab to the SL? There's no reason to keep it from him if it paints them in a good light.
Ymir says MRS is doomed without the coordinate, and she knows her shit.
>And yet 5 years interacting with people from MRS should have been more than enough to make them realize that the vast majority of those people aren't "evil" at all, except perhaps for the government leaders who oppress the masses too.
Means nothing, you still have to act appropriate in response to those in control.
See WW1 and WW2.
Innocent civilians were targeted by every player.
What they're doing in the end is right, they just don't feel great about killed all these innocents to do it. Again, just like real life.
>It was the only method to sneak in and blend with the populace believably.
True, Grisha needed to slaughter everyone too before they accepted him into society. Especially since orphans are so much harder to integrate than fully grown men with mysterious knowledge.
It was Bert's flashback.
>this fucking awful plot
how can people still read this rag?
>There's no reason to keep it from him if it paints them in a good light.
There's also no reason what so ever for him to be told they're the bad guys when Eren 1,235,028% already thought they were.
Grisha knew the coordinator was in the wrong hands, I think that says a lot. Unless we're going to go full-retard and claim Grisha was a villain all along.
Pinning the blame on the First King would be the perfect way to get Eren off their backs. He trusts Ymir to tell the truth. There's no reason for BR to stonewall Ymir from telling Eren anything that shifts the blame off them.
It was a two pronged thing.
Attack to draw out the coordinator and if it doesn't appear then you infiltrate taking advantage of the destruction and panic to embed yourself well.
As Reiner said, they could have killed EVERYONE in the city if they really wanted to, but they didn't, they wanted the power of the coordinator.
So was Grisha sent to retrieve the Coordinate like BRA were and then changed his mind, or did he escape to the walls/was a third party like Ymir and just happened to decide to get the Coordinate to help fight back against the titans?
Not if you actually read the conversation. He didn't need to kill anyone to blend into the society. Either way
>killing the only defence they had and kinda helping BRA
If we go by Ymir and Reiner's reaction to Eren using the coordinate in chapter 50 then he did the opposite.
>There's also no reason what so ever for him to be told they're the bad guys when Eren 1,235,028% already thought they were.
That's the point man. Their side isn't "good all along" Even if they need the coordinate to save themselves they're willing to fuck MRS over in the process.
You're forgetting something incredibly major that Reiner unsterood about Eren's character.
Eren is a fucking idiot child that has almost ZERO intelligence at his disposal. Once Eren knows who he should attack he's going to go running right at them going
>AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG YOU MONSTSERS I'M GOING TO KILL YOU FOR WHAT YOU'VE DONE GRRAGGGGGGG HERE I AM BY MYSELF TAKE THE ONLY POWER IN THE WORLD THAT COULD BE USED TO STOP YOU DO YOU LIKE MY ASSHOLE RAPE IT MORE PLEASE
I honestly doubt you're capable of a real conversation if you readily think Eren was mature and level headed enough to learn important things in that situation.
>Except maybe Isayama's faggotry.
There are a lot of better ways to interrupt, like the SL approaching, an abnormal suddenly distracting them, or make Eren too upset to ask in the first place. That conversation served a purpose.
Eren is a smart and mature guy though. He listened to Hange talk about titans all night because he thought he needed to learn about them to know how to beat them, he was willing to trust and listen to Levi squad because he was just a recruit and they were veterans, and when he was kidnapped by BR he saw it as an oppotunity to try and get them talking and reveal important information.
Yeah he rages out after watching people die right in front of him, but most of the time he's a reasonable guy.
Except maybe Reiner saying the world will come to an end soon, Reiner's delusional behavior, and "that" I don't see what is more important except what we already know.
>The village is SL's true enemy.
MRS are going to be responsible for what's happened to them all along, you saw who was in charge, why would you doubt it?
It was rubbed in your face quite well that they were no-good.
You're right, there was absolutely no other way than mass genocide. Grisha never even got close to the Reiss or discovered their hideout. BRA had no idea where to even start looking for the coordinate which was why they blindly wanted to join the MP, it was all a wild goose chase.
>As Reiner said, they could have killed EVERYONE in the city if they really wanted to, but they didn't
How good and noble of them to only kill some, but not all, and take away the people's weapon which in effect only delays their death should disaster strike.
Eren is currently tied up, and they know for all his rashness that he's also capable of thinking and following plans. On the other hand, visibly blackmailing Ymir to shut up in front of him is guaranteed to make Eren calmer right?
MRS is devoted to never using the power of the Coordinator to save the rest of humanity, that's what we know as fact. They follow the ideal of the first king to condemn the rest of humanity and in turn assist in their murder.
MRS are literally SUPERVILLAINS hurting the entire world.
Grisha was right to stop their villainy. BRA are right to steal it.
>The village is SL's true enemy.
That's the point. They don't want to tell him because the answer will incriminate them, not because their village is actually good like someone wants to claim.
No, that's pure stupidity. Eren already believed they were the villains. The truth was simply too much for Eren. He's an idiot that has no idea what was going on or the true history of the world.
>MRS are literally SUPERVILLAINS hurting the entire world.
MRS are literally made up of 99% innocent people. The problem is in the government. BRA are not right to cause all that death to innocent people.
Even Ymir saw Eren was just a enraged brat that could barely think about anything but muh vengeance. And he was it way before the wall breaks, killing people brutally because he could.
Not him and I wouldn't call Eren mature and definitely not smart, but
If you mean in chapter 47, then it was reasonable. They were about to tie him up, they weren't going to tell him anything more and the SL were approaching, it was the best time to start resisting.
>>freaking out in the court
Actually proof of how much Reiner's lesson about the strong carrying responsibility stuck with him.
>>Hearing Hanji all night
Not at all and I'm not sure why you'd think it was.
>Didn't SL do it wuth the nobles too?
They actually just put them in jail except for the ones who promised to reform. And unlike BRA killing commoners, the SL were direct victims of the nobles who knowingly abused the people.
MRS is doomed without the coordinate.
Anon, BRA's people are suffering.
Everything they do is justified if its to help their people. This combined with the knowledge we have that the First King simply didn't care and wanted the rest of the world to die so he could have his little nazi dream as mentioned just hurts MRS position more.
>Actually proof of how much Reiner's lesson about the strong carrying responsibility stuck with him.
Even Eren saw at that moment it was a dick move and uncalled for. If it wasn't for Levi he was done at that moment.
>implying there's only 2 sides
BRA are shit.
Nobles/Reiss are shit.
SL and their friends aren't nearly as shit.
The masses are ignorant of the entire thing. but they're who the SL is primarily working for so they can be counted as that side too.
Ymir's side died out, now she's a wildcard.
Grisha's still full of mystery.
He didn't see it as a dick move though. He saw it wasn't working but went on anyway. He had his reasons for thinking the way he did, it was just stupid for him to say it all aloud. Although apparently it was perfect for Erwin's plan anyway.
Yeah, it's unfortunate. Mostly because the average person that's a fan is an idiot/kid/both and they say retarded things like
>BUT UH...WE UH...ALREADY TALKED ABOUT ALL THIS THERES NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT HURRRR(drools)
Or are simply too stupid to hold actual discussions so they just post pictures, make stupid jokes and ship.
You're forgetting that the first king is the one with the crazy nazi dream of damning the rest of the world by creating a society that's completely ignorant and only unified by the titans outside.
BRA are unlikely to be as crazy as the first king and abandon everyone.
>tfw Crunchyroll can't keep speech bubbles straight
I don't think erasing the minds of the population and lying to them is really protecting him. He was forcing his own ideal utopia on them, similar to what the Nazis did as mentioned.
No, he didn't.
My God you are dense.
Grisha was talking about avenging her by solving the entire problem.
That's one of the reasons he wanted Eren to use the memories and to find the basement.
>The innocent people inside the walls, who don't even know what's going on, are better than BRA
BRA don't follow the ideology of the first king so this is instantly wrong. There is no reason to believe they won't help other settlements out in the world.
Remember that the first king condemned the rest of the world to death instead of helping them when he had the responsibility to.
If, indeed, Annie and her father are originaly from the walls, I can see the Village rescuing the people send off to die by MRS, since these people are recorded to never been seen again and have "disappeared". Even the soldiers.
That's EXACTLY what the Nazis did.
>Lied to the people about the truth
>Unite them against a common foe
That's the same thing the First King did but he literally fucked all their minds which is something I'm sure Hitler would approve of since he spent money on mind control research.
>If a citizen keeps quiet and works hard he could live a decent life in the walls
>The guy who dig into wall rose's story.
It's even blatantly stated on the political arc anyone who didn't concur would be sent to sleep.
I'm pretty sure they are of a sizable populace, anon.
Also they probably care about saving the world which the first king didn't.
First king is probably the typical
>We destroyed the world...we are monsters...time to abandon it forever and start up what I think is best
>Lied to the people about the truth
>Unite them against a common foe
Like every modern government? Hitler was despicable for many other reasons.
Life in the walls is fucking shit but I don't know who would trade the hope of "making it" in the walls with BRA's genocide.
Exactly he should have minded hid own business
>But for none come back?
A hundred did or so did.
There's no reason to think they were miraculously saved when BRA's secondary objective was to fucking kill everyone and BRA's hometown doesn't like them.
>he should have minded hid own business
Oh hey commie.
>Life in the walls is fucking shit but I don't know who would trade the hope of "making it" in the walls with BRA's genocide.
Like I said, I agree with this. But there's no defending their way of life except for that point. SL was right to take a third choice.
No edgyness just a matter of fact.
>Anything they do to get the power out of the hands of the First King's mind controlled ancestors is a good thing.
Says who? BRA's faction. Would the average citizen prefer that they and their loved ones dies for a faction no one knows anything about?
Can confirm as a Bort disliker.
>talking about tumblr at all
Completely off topic and needs to stop.
Anyone talking about tumblr and "Character"-fags from this point on will be admitting they are under 18 and subject to ban.
>from this point on
>implying that's not a fucking rule for years
>implying a "mod" didn't say that again a month ago and then proceeded to ignore all shitposting
Oh gee, thanks.
Let's get down to this:
Do you want titans to be a result of us waging war on ourselves stupidly or advanced weapons used to fight invading aliens...with them as the big bads like the original story that inspired SNK
>And Erwin said the better option was to tirn in the SL than go through with the coup.
And you believe that? If the coordinate goes back to the Reiss they'll go back to pouring shit on the citizens until BRA fucks everyone over again.
Erwin is smart but sometimes he can be full of shit.
MuvLuv and Dark City were the inspirations for SNK. He essentially mashed the two together and made SNK from it.
If you're going to watch Dark City you should do so without the opening narration as it spoils the whole thing for you. You want the director's cut.
But MuvLuv was already in space and had a future setting, right? It just seems like a weird shift to go from cowboys to aliens.
I see the irony but still. This story, even though it was inspired by different things feels like I'm reading a mesh of medieval and Norse mythology. "Suddenly, aliens!" would feel jarring.
But it all depends on delivery. I'll try and keep an open mind.
Fuck Erwin and his real motives, that's not the the question here.
How is putting the power back in the hands of the First King and his shitty mind-wiping minions better than trying to prepare to fight back against titans/BRA and find the truth in the basement? MRS is doomed if things went on as before. Reiner said Eren was the worst to get it while Ymir thought the Walls had a chance now, meaning they have the best chance of winning against BRA's faction if they let Eren have the coordinate. Grisha thought so as well.
Without the SL in charge there would be no new weapons and if BRA attacks again the nobles are ready to just abandon Rose.