Why is it that the Lancers are the best characters in both Fate/Zero and Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works?
Of course, aside from Alexander the Great.
>HERO OF JUSTICE x10000000000
>NO MATTER HOW OUTCLASSED I AM, I'LL JUST USE MY BELIEF IN MYSELF AND IDEALS TO ASSPULL RETARDED LEAPS IN POWER
Nah Shirou is dogshit and Kiritsugu is the man
I read the VN and he's not wrong. Shirou asspulls powers out of nowhere. Or at least it is said he got powers because he's a special snowflake that did not know it resided in him, for no apparent reason.
But I have read FSN VN so I'm missing something here.
That was the essence of UBW though
Archer tries to convince him his ideals are a lie, hopeless, but he keeps going and won't stop because he thinks his ideals are pure
Then he beats archer and Gilgamesh
> for no apparent reason.
>Be normal kid
>Get ultra super NP, best of the best inside your body
>Be "reborn" as a machine
>Super NP along with his personality that sees himself as a tool shape his origin and elemental affinity to sword
>Get awful teacher that teaches you jack shit about magic and doesn't even understand what your ability is
Literally everything is explained in the first 2 routes, you're motherfucking stupid if you think he gets powers out of nowhere or for no apparent reason.
Kiritsugu was a shit teacher that pretty much told Shirou to kill himself by doing self destructive magic, Rin after 2 days was able to figure out Shirou's abilities weren't fit for strenghtening.
bro buy one of these padded 'desks' for ur laptop
put it right on ur crotch and u dont have to worry about killing your sperms
>You had Saber in a fucking suit,
My refined ninja. Nothing beats a hot blond in a suit.
>He beats Archer
He only wins in ideals, which was the point of the fight you shonenfaggot
We've been through this already, if you don't want to accept Gilgamesh is shit then don't but stop being annoying.
>Guy barely beats Archer
>And wins idealistically rather than physically
>Beats a toying-around Gilgamesh with help from Archer
>I read the VN but didn't fucking actually READ the VN.
He literally never died. Gilgamesh missed majority of his attacks and Archer just went spirit mode. Even the anime makes it pretty clear and shows you Gilgamesh sucks at aiming, yet retarded secondaries like you still don't get it.
that fight had caster convictions, Diarmuid and Saber conflict, and Berserker actually putting up a fight with Gilgamesh is the complete opposite of Kariya's pitiful fight where he did jack shit. As well as Berseker chasing Saber being expanded upon later.
The fight was not just pews pews pews.
>I'LL JUST USE MY BELIEF IN MYSELF AND IDEALS TO ASSPULL RETARDED LEAPS IN POWER
Can you at least try? He was getting his power from his interactions with his future self who succeeded at mastering his powers.
Saber in F/Z was a terrible character.
Butcher himself said he didn't understand her. And it shows, he made her a moralfag retard that's there just to get BTFO by all this losers that weren't half as good as her at being kings.
She was there to be bullied, she was full muh knighto codo but we knew since F/SN Saber is pretty much Kiritsugu.
>tfw can't decide if i like Rin or Saber more
Shinji realist boy in the series.
I already explained it to you shitposter-kun. >>136324688
If you don't understand the things I posted and why they made him have those powers it just shows you're a filthy secondary.
Did you miss the part where the magic scabbard got shoved in to his chest, changed his magic to 'sword' and his origin to 'sword' so that when he cast 'sword' it was super strong?
Avalon didn't change his origin, it did change his elemental affinity.
His origin became that because of how he is, remember when Shirou says that he died and was reborn he's not joking, the Emiya Shirou we know was born in that fire. .
>It's not even that strong
You're retarded if you think that, killing Heracles 6 times in a position of disadvantage is amazing no matter how you want to put it. Killing Saber Alter, the strongest servant is also amazing no matter how you want to put it.
Shirou's abilities are really powerful overall.
UBW is worse than GoB but it's still powerful, not enough for the servants of the 5th war though but definetely enough or much of a threat for others that are clearly weaker than those.
>inb4 that 2004 interview that came with F/SN and Nasu said UBW was a distraction against other servants
Only F/SN servants existed back then.
He beat Heracles with it as well.
Not using the reality marble, but just summoning a half-assed imagination of the sword and still defeated him.
I DO know it was his last live and he was really weak by that point but that felt like a complete asspull.
I know, but Shirou was not a fully prepared mage and it took him days to do what a skilled mage needed to practice for years.
I know, power of conviction, power of talent, etc etc but can you blame me for finding this too much for suspension of disbelief?
UBW's biggest failing was not enough EMIYA. I hope they don't cut Hikari to Yami from Heaven's Feel too.
>Fate Zero is so much better than trash UBW i can't believe it's not a universal opinion on here.
It isn't? Ufo UBW fucking blows compared to F/Z, but to be fair a lot of what made UBW good was predicated on having played the Fate route of the VN.
ANIPLEX makes them do it, just like LiSA/Kalafina sing the opening to every shit they put out.
Aimer is their new product so they need to advertise, I mean they did give them the 2 HA openings.
Because I'm pretty sure they repeat in the novel enough times that his powers are nowhere as refined as Archer's mastery of the swords to the point of being nauseating? and in Heaven's feel they had to fucking transplant his arm to get to his level.
See, I don't have problem with SUPER POWERFUL ATTACKS because that's what the series is about, but the way how they handled Shirou's awakening of his reality marble was just awful and snowflakey.
I just caught up with hollow ataraxia. Hanafuda is a pretty fun game.
I almost want to delve deeper, I know there's a bit more stuff out there, but I think it's all untranslated psp games and shit.
>how they handled Shirou's awakening of his reality marble was just awful and snowflakey.
I am sure I won't get through to you but whatever he got it from Archer who he spent some time fighting and he just mimicked him. Like everything with Fate there is just some heavy amount of people nitpicking everywhere.
>there are people who don't love Shirou
What a waste of the air I breathe on this earth.
See, "mimicking" is an explanation but it's still too retarded I can't wrap my head around how he managed to kill Gilgamesh at the end with it.
Maybe to you it's nitpicky, but to me there's bullshit Fate pulls off, and then there's this. I'm definitely missing something here.
>Judging the concept of creation
>Hypothesizing the basic structure
>Duplicating the composition material
>Imitating the skill of its making
>Sympathizing with the experience of its growth
>Reproducing the accumulated years
>Excelling every manufacturing process
Because maybe Gil isn't as invincible as you seem to think he is.
>Gil was countered with sword rain and defeated because he was cocky.
I don't like that ending then, it means gilgamesh didn't fight at his max power and was completely blindsided because he purposely underestimated shirou
It means that gilgamesh would never fight shirou at his absolute best because despite all his tedious plotting and calculations. His absolute power when wiping out someone like berserker revealing his phantasm of godly chains or what ever.
It seems so absolutely cliche that he would purposely underestimate it because he NEVER had a contingency that followed making SURE all the other competitors were dead before he started building the holy grail.
That and the fact of all this chivalry and honor in fighting. You'd think there would be more aggressive characters that sought to kill. Hell, caster let the fucking kids go 3 god damn times. She let them escape 3 fucking times not including all the other times that the other characters let them run
It's still a bit of a shit that late UBW is Shiro going through years of development through fucking Rin and a bit of exposure to future possibility.
At the end of the day, "it's magic, I ain't got to explain shit" comes into all these fantasy series, even autistic, developed, detailed and thoroughly chuuni nasu type stuff
Who's a Gilfag? I prefer a much better character
>tedious plotting and calculations
You'd call his plan complicated?
>wiping out someone like berserker
Berserker didn't have a counter to GoB
Not know the chains work specifically well on heracles because of his divinity and would not work on shirou
That just sounds completely arbitrary and cliche. Being cocky couldn't have been his only flaw. If he was so cocky why did he extend such effort at Berserker over time trying to size him up but NOT extend the same effort to shirou. Shirou constantly ramped up his own power and completely negated gilgamesh's attacks
>oh shit he blocked the entire attack
>nah instead of flat out alpha-ing him off the field, better use the same barrage of swords and halberds over and over. Lets not increase our volume now.
>you stupid kids are too weak, go and don't come back
>you still persist yet being so weak? get out of here or I'll kill you the next time
>this is your final warning I'm gonna let you go because theres nothing (supposedly) you can do
>oh fugg I'm ded
He wouldn't even use his chains on Shirou, the entire battle since the start was a match of sword spam it's even on the anime jesus christ. If Gil used anything else he would be conceding the match because his sword spam would lose to a mere shitty human magus faker. This is why he hesitates on pulling EA.
I've watched all the fate related anime adaptions, played FSN and HA, even read manga and FZ LN.
Is there nothing left to do but fap to doujins and shitpost in the unfailingly god awful nasu threads here?
>Caster, archer, assassin, all leave the MC's to escape purposely multiple times
>gilgamesh not going full hardcore when he knows he's about to lose
>refuses to go HAM despite knowing shirou (unlike ANY other character) is able to negate EVERY SINGLE FUCKING ATTACK
>why didn't gilgamesh just kill 2 birds with one stone and kill shirou right there
>why didn't archer kill shirou right in the beginning if he knew what shirou would be come?
>>why didn't archer kill shirou right in the beginning if he knew what shirou would be come?
Also I know they were in a truce for a while but there were tens of opportunities where they WEREN'T in alliance where archer could have slaughtered shirou but didn't
I just finished UBW.
God, the second half was so dumb. It was like 6 hours long of a guy narrating a woe-is-me concept that we have heard in every single war movie.
Was the author seriously think that discovering the philosophy that some people has to die for the betterment of many actually makes him some sort of a prophet?
Come on, that is like the basic knowledge in every movie that features soldiers and law-enforcement. You don't have to drag it that long.
And don't get me started on the even more stupid fight scenes that features constant barrage of holier-than-thou screamings.
I'm going to drink some hard tonic and watch Love Live just to forget all that idiocy that I just endured
>>Caster, archer, assassin, all leave the MC's to escape purposely multiple times
They all had reasons.
>>gilgamesh not going full hardcore when he knows he's about to lose
>>refuses to go HAM despite knowing shirou (unlike ANY other character) is able to negate EVERY SINGLE FUCKING ATTACK
>>why didn't gilgamesh just kill 2 birds with one stone and kill shirou right there
It would be out of character.
>>why didn't archer kill shirou right in the beginning if he knew what shirou would be come?
Simply killing him isn't what Archer wanted
I'm beginning to think you don't even know what plot hole means. Protip, It's not "things I didn't like".
>They all had reasons.
really shitty ones that revolved around "nah ur too weak, get out of here kid you'll never mount to us!"
Gilgamesh could have flat out, EFFORTLESSLY killed shirou but didn't for NO reason
>Let's use the anti-divine weapon against a kid that has no divinity and can copy weapons
>That totally makes sense because I genuinely want him to copy my chains and fuck me up by tying me with them
This is the average intelligence of a gilfag.
Just because he wasn't taking Shirou seriously doesn't mean he was going to give Shirou a weapon designed to fuck Gilgamesh and other gods/demigods over.
>I'm beginning to think you don't even know what plot hole means. Protip, It's not "things I didn't like".
Those might all be things you don't like, but none of them qualify as plot holes.
>Simply killing him isn't what Archer wanted
Yes it fucking was, Archer hated himself and what his original "ideal" was. In his lunacy he thinks that undoing what shirou would grow up to be by killing him would be the ultimate solution to his guilt and reprise.
It didn't make any sense in any of the situations where Archer engaged Shirou where Archer won and DIDN'T fucking kill him off.
Because Irish mythology makes for a great basis.
And because he knows the chains are useless.
Shirou will destroy them like they're made out of paper, even before they get out the gate just like every other weapons Gilgamesh used.
>If I just kill my past self then all of my guilt will be undone
He literally wanted to fucking kill him, you guys are fucking retarded trying to confuse this garbage for some kind of diplomatic and propaganda bullshit archer was supposedly trying to force down shirou. Archer was blatantly fascist and knew what shirou would grow up to be and even though Archer was a guardian and nothing would change since he was already admitted, archer wanted to completely erase that from his memory so he used his anger and hate against shirou but for some fucking reason never wanted to finish the job and left him live with a sliver of his life because "reasons"
Even the anime spells it out to you several times.
BY FUCKING KILLING HIM
why all the banter if all he was going to do is kill shirou to put his former self out of his inevitable misery. Nothing would be different if shirou died by archer or was some how moved by archers internal gripe.
The banter was him taking out his anger. That's all it was for Archer, anger therapy.
He didn't want to "spare Shirou that pain" and he knew the whole "paradox myself out of existence" plan was probably not going to work to begin with, so it was just stress relief.
You literally posted nothing but "lol you don't get it" meanwhile I spelled out why the whole line was a load of crap and inevitably a plot hole because it didn't make sense that if Archer knew that the paradox was completely faux in the first place and nothing would have changed then why go through all the effort. Counter-negatively, if he felt the paradox would unfold his former self by either killing him off or somehow convincing his stubborn self that it was all some dumb lie he fabricated in the name of being a "hero of justice" (none of which had anything to do with justice btw). Further more if Archer had truly convinced himself that changing the ideals of someone he explicitly has no connection to, since by the explaination as a guardian he is completely immune to any logic of time flow, then ANY and ALL efforts on shirou are completely useless and a waste of time. Its almost like archer and shirou are 100% completely different people since they are so exclusive.
>they all replied but you ignored them
>lol they just had "reasons"
>no reasons cited
>latter green text is "it would be out of character" but doesn't exemplify how intelligence is tied to that inference
>LOL UR JUST A GILFAG
>NO YOU JUST DON'T LIKE IT
>no latter explanation at all
>lol this is bait!
Yea this is some kind of "response crew" alright, nothing valuable in the least and I am the shit poster?
Nice derailment. You replied to>>136327775
>You literally posted nothing but "lol you don't get it"
In this post>>136327950
The post that guy was replying to is>>136327604
The first 2 replies
Were serious replies which you chose to ignore then and are choosing to ignore in>>136328172 because you are a shitposter.
inb4 >I was merely pretending
At least UBW made Saber even more moe.