[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y ] [Search | Home]
4Archive logo
Isn't the 4th dimension actually TIME?
If images are not shown try to refresh the page. If you like this website, please disable any AdBlock software!

You are currently reading a thread in /a/ - Anime & Manga

Thread replies: 110
Thread images: 18
And why is a 4th dimension being represented in a two dimensional medium?

Are japanese schools this bad?
>>
>>136266429
>Isn't the 4th dimension actually TIME?
There's more than just 4 dimensions. If they want to exclude time but include another one, that's a legitimate decision.
>>
File: catgirl.gif (335 KB, 350x350) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
catgirl.gif
335 KB, 350x350
Way to go, OP...you SERIAL KILLER!
>>
Time is same as space.

Time is not the "4th" dimension. But rather the "additional"/last dimension. In a classical physics, you have a 3 dimensional world and then time. But with modern understanding of QM and such, you have roughly 10-11 dimensions and the time is the other side of those dimension.
>>
i kinda like the show but i couldn't get my mind off how W is just X. i hope i forget it so i can watch retarded anime for retarded people in peace
>>
>>136266429
And you fags give Americans shit for being bad at math.
>>
>>136266429
nah, it's just some fictive lolscience dimension
>>
>>136266429
A dimension is a concept made up by humans. Whether time is a dimension really depends on the definition you're using. Time is a dimension when you define it as an axis of the object that you can 'draw' of everything that ever happened in a fixed space- and timeframe.
>>
>>136266429
>confusing abstract maths with physics
>discussing time as 4th dimension without understanding the difference between euclidean R4 and minkowski spacetime used in special relativity
and most importantly why am I responding to bait
>>
>>136267385
It's impossible to visualize a 4th dimension in three-space so they just took an easy way out.
>>
>>136266429
we think it's time, but it could just as easily be gravity or something else

it's one of those "we don't know so we're guessing" things
>>
>>136267914
Well, according to the manga, the dimension W is just some sort lolscience mishmash of fictive / parallel / ghost realities / dimensions where time and distance are inexitant, and that are mixed into some sort of energy.
The big towers over the world pump this energy in a stable way to avoid dimensionnal collapse and reroute it directly to the coils all over the world.
That's also why New Tesla keep the technology to themselves: they fear that if they share it, cheaply made coils would appear and wreck shit all over the world, as it's a very dangerous technology.
It's also why Kyouma hate coils: he saw some real shit that could happen and got massive >sufferings from it.
>>
>>136267863
They could have just used a tesseract.
>>
>>136266429

I'm a graphics programmer.

Any 4th dimension is not the fucking negative X axis. Fucking get your shit together Japan.
>>
>>136271157
And I'm an astrophysicist, the 4th dimension is really the negative X axis. You should try moonwalking sometimes
>>
inb4 tesseract
>>
Question. Are there any manga chapters translated beyond chapter 24? The last update seems to be in august. Did they drop this?
>>
>>136266429
They're talking about Euclidian space you uncultured swine.
>>
>>136268679
Just like you can project 3D to 2D, you can project 4D to 2D as well.
>>
>>136271682
Yeah but it doesn't have much meaning.
casting a 3D object to a line (1D) or a 2D object to a line it'll just look the same.
To much information is lost and our brains can't even conceptualize a 4th dimension. It's pointless to try.
>>
>>136267348
>you have roughly 10-11 dimensions
>he fell for the string theory meme
>>
>>136266429
>>136267914
Physics grad student here.

It can be whatever you want it to be. There's no such thing as "THE 4th dimension". You just build mathematical descriptions of things that utilize a tool called "dimensions". It varies from model to model and subject to subject.

Say for example you have 2 particles in space. You can model that as 2 points in a 3 dimensional space right? But mathematically it's exactly the same amount of information as if you used 1 particle in a 6 dimensional space.
Another example is something used in physics all the time called "phase space" in which you treat momentum as dimensions.

In other areas of physics it's really useful to treat time as a dimension because if someone tells you where a party is and you show up 5 years later then you didn't make it to the right event. So it's natural to treat time as an extra coordinate to describe events in "spacetime". But calling it the "4th" dimension is meaningless, it might as well be the first, it doesn't matter.
>>
File: 1397442762605.gif (948 KB, 500x500) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1397442762605.gif
948 KB, 500x500
FINDS A WAY.
>>
>>136271904
They should've used that animation.
>>
>>136266429

In the inertial frame light moves at a constant speed for all other inertial observers. You could be traveling at 80% the speed of light relative to me, yet the light coming from me will be going 100% the speed of light and I will see the same from you. This also works in reverse so if you travel away from me the light which I detect will still be traveling the same speed of light.

Because the speed of light is constant for all inertial observers we can use it as an absolute ruler for space and time simultaneously. One light second is about the distance from the earth to the moon. As observers move closer to the speed of light space and time distort while the speed of light remains constant. The only way to resolve this problem is to treat both space and time as dimensions that dilate relative to each observer. According to light talking about space or time are just different ways of saying the same thing.
>>
File: 1310396626732.jpg (338 KB, 784x800) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1310396626732.jpg
338 KB, 784x800
>>136271897
>>136271897
>There's no such thing as "THE 4th dimension".

>Doesn't into string theory.
>>
>>136271830
any projection is a loss of information.
Yet people have no problem with 3D to 2D.
>>
>>136272068
"THE 4th dimension" is not the same as "A 4th dimension". Learn to english.
>>
>>136272085
Yeah but perceiving things as 3D is something our brains are specialists at.
We can easily tell how far certain objects are in photographs, but that's a hard task for a computer.
>>
if you assume there are only 4 dimensions then the fourth is time but hyphothetically if there was another spatial dimension time would be the fifth.
and it looks like dimension W is part of X because their world has an unspoken convention of using YELLOW to indicate it's a new dimension and not just the old one, they just forgot to say this in the anime. now stop being autistic.
>>
>>136272242

But it does help not to word it in such a way that it may be interpreted that the existence of a fourth spatial dimension has been excluded from possibility.
>>
So, can we discuss why Loser is talking like a normal person when he's obviously missing lips?
>>
Your fedoras are too far uo your asses. It's a chinese cartoon, not everything makes sense
>>
>>136272593
dude it's the future, he could have some prosthetic parts.
>>
>>136272648
Doesn't look like it.
>>
>>136272445
All I was saying is there's no answer to OP's question.
What dimensions you're using depends on what area of physics you're considering, and in some cases even depends on the specific problem you're doing.

Even though it's standard to use time as a 4th dimension in relativity that doesn't make "time is the 4th dimension" into some fundamental statement about our reality. It's just a mathematical convention. Dimensions aren't nearly as special as most people make them out to be.
A physically 4 dimensional space would be special, but a mathematical model in which you have 4 dimensions is not, and which dimension is "the 4th" is meaningless.
>>
>>136272684
He may talk through speaker connect to his brain
>>
File: Finds a Neigh.png (207 KB, 500x623) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
Finds a Neigh.png
207 KB, 500x623
>>136271904
LOVE FROM DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS!
>>
I used to play an early version of this game in order to "somewhat" help me wrap my head around the fourth spartial dimention. It takes a long time to master but I really recommend sticking with it. Or bookmark and forget it, probably.

http://www.fourthdimensiongame.com/
>>
>>136272726
Fair enough I guess.
>>
Ten Dimensions Explained:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4Gotl9vRGs
>>
>>136267462
They're not bad with math, they're bad at reading.
>>
Yes and yes.
>>
>>136266429
It's an anime about Time Cube.
>>
>>136272706

Well, I've been pimping my crackpot black hole/dark matter/big bang hypothesis to /sci/ for years now and a vital part of it is that there are more than three spatial dimensions. So reading that there is no 4th dimension triggers me.
>>
>>136272996
I didn't say that though. At all.

The word "dimension" is ambiguous, as it can either be a degree of freedom, or a scalar number assigned to how many dimensions a space has.

We might occupy a space "of dimension 4" or higher. But that doesn't imply there's any meaning in talking about which dimension happens to be "the 4th". It doesn't matter.
>>
File: awesome.gif (2 MB, 500x375) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
awesome.gif
2 MB, 500x375
>>136273205

Thank you. I can rest untriggered.
>>
>>136273361
It's an easy way of showing that different coordinates in 3 space have a corresponding value in a fourth dimension that can't be represented well spatially in 2 or 3 dimensions without confusing most people. It would be the same principle as thermal images, except with the colours signifying different values of the W dimension. They probably didn't want to go with this if they thought of it though, since it would require a legend instead of just a simple graph that might be wrong. Because honestly. It's anime. I'm more surprised when they get something right.
>>
>>136266429

They haven't explained what THE 4TH DIMENSION is at all, or why there are people who abhor the practice of exploiting it for material use. It might be a time lord, it might be heaven, it might be hell, it might be an alternate timeline, it might be your mother. What we can surmise is there are extractors all over the planet, and they're all probably bound to blow up at some point because the core premise of the series is a corporation recklessly taps into a dangerous power (which is a sensitive issue in Japanese society given how Fukushima was the result of a natural disaster colliding with a nuclear power company who didn't give a shit).
>>
>>136274208
You've just gotta roll with the magical physics.
>>
a dimension is technically any unit

the implicit understanding when you say dimension is spatial dimension but just the word 'dimension' in and of itself does not denote such a thing. There's a concept in engineering called dimensional analysis which is entirely about tracking units (time, mass, length, etc).
>>
>>136274334

Daggers here, cyborg magic physics a shit.
>>
>>136266429
No, the 4th dimension is that of archetypes. Space-time continuity is the 5th dimension.
>>
>>136271904
01000001 00100000 01100010 01101111 01111001 00100000 01100110 01100001 01101100 01101100 01110011 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01101100 01101111 01110110 01100101 00100000 01110111 01101001 01110100 01101000 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01101001 01110010 01101100 00101110 00001101 00001010 00001101 00001010 01010101 01101110 01100001 01100010 01101100 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101110 01100110 01100101 01110011 01110011 00101100 00100000 01101000 01100101 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01100111 01101001 01100110 01110100 01100101 01100100 00100000 01100010 01111001 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100100 01100101 01110101 01110011 00100000 01100101 01111000 00100000 01101101 01100001 01100011 01101000 01101001 01101110 01100001 00100000 01110111 01101001 01110100 01101000 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100111 01101001 01110010 01101100 00100111 01110011 00100000 01110000 01101000 01101111 01101110 01100101 00100000 01101110 01110101 01101101 01100010 01100101 01110010 00101110
>>
>>136271846
>meme
>not reality
>>
File: image037.jpg (602 KB, 1520x1080) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
image037.jpg
602 KB, 1520x1080
This is my fetish.
>>
File: 1467595961463.png (110 KB, 604x453) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1467595961463.png
110 KB, 604x453
>>136272764
>>
>>136274677
Increasingly out of favor with scientists as quantum mechanics only betrays more and more weirdness.
>>
>>136272820
This all sounds like a bunch of pseudoscience.
>>
>>136274721
I can read it but I don't understand what's happening.
>>
>>136271904
>>
>>136274873
You don't like bondage?
>>
>>136271904
For four dimensions include clipping?
>>
>>136267348
Time isn't a dimension in quantum mechanics, as far as quantum mechanics is concerned time doesn't exist at all, there's just states of particles and probabilities of being in those states.
>>
>>136275060
Time is a social construct.
>>
>>136275096
Some physicists say it's a function of entanglement but who knows, shit's whack for people way smarter than I am let alone me.
>>
>>136274642
>Space-time continuity is the 5th dimension
dimensions aren't magical places dude. Why does everyone think this?

Let me help you out. Every show, book, movie, whatever you've ever seen that ever talked about anything being "from" a dimension or what "the Xth" dimension IS, is total bullcrap.

If you have 5 dimensions it's because you hand selected those dimensions to match the "dimensionality" of whatever physical theory or system you're dealing with.
Pretty much this >>136274424

>>136274857
It literally is. Just another piece of bunk material floating around that people always post which lends to the misconceptions that dimensions are physical things that we "discover" rather than mathematical tools that we are free to choose however we want to describe situations.

>>136275060
The states evolve in time. Time literally appears in Schrodinger's equation in a derivative.
It's not usually treated as a dimension though I guess. But that doesn't mean it can't be either.
>>
>>136274675

8J2ZgfCdmZDwnZi+8J2ZhiDwnZmU8J2ZivCdmZA=
>>
>>136267219
Good, we should kill as many of those abominations as we can.
>>
>>136275176
これは何ですか?
>>
>>136275292

base64
>>
>>136275309
𝙁𝙐𝘾𝙆 𝙔𝙊𝙐
>>
>>136274675
>(apply str (map (comp char #(Integer/parseInt % 2)) (clojure.string/split string #" ")))
>"A boy falls in love with a girl.\r\n\r\nUnable to confess, he is gifted by a deus ex machina with the girl's phone number."
I've been had.
>>
>>136274675
5468726561646c792072656d696e646572207468617420796f752073686f756c642073746f7020706f7374696e672074686174206265636175736520697427732061207468696e672e0a0a68747470733a2f2f7777772e66696374696f6e70726573732e636f6d2f732f333230363133392f312f
>>
In general relativity, using the Minkowski metric to measure the geodesic of a moving photon requires 4 variables, (t,r,theta,phi).
Basically, the azimuthal coordinate set with time as a 4th variable. This is from assuming a flat and expanding space (as observed).
This yields imteresting results, such as setting ds, the rate of change of distance between 2 points, to zero for a photon gives dr/dt = (+ or -) c.
i.e. speed of light is constant
>>
>>136275511
>(((())()))
fuck this shit.
>>
>>136275584
Well played.
>>
>>136275760
(->> (clojure.string/split string #" ") (map (comp char #(Integer/parseInt % 2)) (apply str))
As the saying goes, you eventually stop seeing the parentheses.
>>
>>136275511
01000110 01001001 01001110 01000100 01010011 00100000 01000001 00100000 01010111 01000001 01011001 00001101 00001010 01001001 00001101 00001010 01001110 00001101 00001010 01000100 00001101 00001010 01010011 00001101 00001010 00001101 00001010 01000001 00001101 00001010 00001101 00001010 01010111 00001101 00001010 01000001 00001101 00001010 01011001
>>
>>136271904
>>136274675
https://youtu.be/6QfMPWG_Gao?t=41s
>>
Am I the only one that came to this thread for the science talk and doesn't even watch this anime?
>>
>>136276172

This anime is pretty plebshit tier so far so I wouldn't blame you. The only appealing things so far are generic robot loli and humanity containing the power of the Chaos gods in batteries.
>>
>>136276172
You're not the only one. So am I.
>>
Fuck, I mean yeah he was a retard, but did he really deserve this?
>>
>>136276358
He brought it all upon himself.
>>
>>136276139
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOCqCGBCH30
>>
>>136276358

If he bought insurance for his museum, he was retarded for using illegal killer robots.
If he didn't buy insurance for his museum, he was super retarded and shouldn't have used illegal killer robots anyway.
He shouldn't have owned illegal killer robots in the first place anyway.
>>
>>136274857
Not pseudoscience, just semantics. If you don't agree with this definition of the 7th dimension or something it really doesn't matter because you're probably not part of the relevant discussion anyway.
>>
>>136271897
>You can model that as 2 points in a 3 dimensional space right? But mathematically it's exactly the same amount of information as if you used 1 particle in a 6 dimensional space.
I don't see it. A 1x6 matrix is very different from two 1x3 matrices.
>>
>>136275584
>Stealth advertising
>>
>>136271904
>trying to describe the 4th dimension using a 2 dimensional representation of a 3 dimensional model
>>
>>136266429
weebs whose souls are weighted down by society discuss science lolz
>>
>>136276622
I didn't say they were the exact same thing. I said they carry the same information.

I'm not sure what you mean with the matrices though. If you're referring to quantum mechanics then particle positions wouldn't be handled with matrices since it's a continuum and each point in space would be assigned its own dimension. So you have an infinite dimensional hilbert space.

But still the concept can be applied to other properties that would use matrices like spin for example. Two particles with their own spins would have eigenstates in different 2-dimensional hilbert spaces which can be expanded into a single state in a larger 4-dimensional hilbert space.
>>
I learned all of my physics from Interstellar

Bravo Nolan
>>
>>136276622
Not that guy, but he's technically correct in that the two representations are algebraically equivalent ("isomorphic") under elementwise addition/multiplication. I don't see any reason to do it though since in these kinds of problems you generally want to reduce the dimension of the space you're working with.
>>
File: 1447225373686.gif (884 KB, 540x304) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1447225373686.gif
884 KB, 540x304
>>136274675
>>136271904
UNSTOPPABLE
>>
>>136271846
String theory will be churning out a working theory of everything in the coming decades.

It maybe "out there" for classical mechanics proponents but QM proponents are increasingly finding ties to string theory and tieng them together.
>>
>>136275158
>It's bullshit because I say so
Do you even abstraction bro? Label them whatever the fuck you want, but the point I was getting at is that there has to be a layer (dimension) between 3D forms and what we refer to as "time," because time has no context or relevance in a system of points, lines and forms; it's merely a measuring device adapted by human understanding. That's where the dimension of archetypes comes into play, as it ascribes significance to the three dimensions before it.
>>
>>136277307
I'm googling dimension of archetypes and all I'm seeing is psyche crap.
>>
>>136277495
>Label them whatever the fuck you want
>>
File: img000017[1].png (248 KB, 989x1400) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
img000017[1].png
248 KB, 989x1400
>>136274208
see >>136268614

It's useless to try explaining what would this 4th dimension would be in terms of actual physics. It's just some invention made up and called "dimension W" for convenience, that is some sort of energetic magma resulting from shitloads of parallel fictive versions of the reality fusing together. In later arcs, there are even people living in some of those parallel realities.
>>
>>136274873
Some dead baddie living in a ghost dimension (resulting from a coil malfunction) caught Mira in said ghost dimension and is trying to destroy her because she's angry.
>>
File: 1453035789271.jpg (685 KB, 2110x1762) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1453035789271.jpg
685 KB, 2110x1762
>infinite energy
>but fuck with it and you'll merge with nightmare fuel
Nope.
>>136276277
>loli
Just because she's cute and has expressive antennae doesn't mean she's a loli.
>>
post robutt
>>
>>136275584
Fuck.
>>
>>136277817

antenna hairpins > *
>>
File: 34907956_p0.png (787 KB, 924x860) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
34907956_p0.png
787 KB, 924x860
The extra dimension isn't bad, I mean it's a classic SF trope, the problem for me is that they tried to provide an explanation to it.
This is always a problem with cheap SF... if you create a universe with something hypothetical in it for your SF story, either make sure the math/physics are correct OR say that it happens "because x" but don't explain it, that way you get a "because magic" but instead of magic it's "science" and so suspension of disbelief holds.
The more you try to explain bullshit the more it sounds like bullshit, writing 101.
The intro especially, it fucks me up since they put the fucking explanation as a "and thus we have this SF setting", so every single fucking day_dog.jpg I have to see that fucking W dimension appear on the fucking X and then coil around like what is that kind of stupid shit?

That said, robogirls are my fetish so whatever.
>>
Some of the action OST reminds me of the Trigun OP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzHe4U5c5Oc
>>
>>136278031

Its starring a special forces guy who nonchalantly walks into an evil lair like Batmans a faggot and he doesn't need to do that sneaky bullshit. The story a shit and I'm just watching for the girl until I decide to drop it.
>>
>>136276358
Illegal coils are against the law, scum.
Thread replies: 110
Thread images: 18
Thread DB ID: 453876



[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Home]

[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Home]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the shown content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows their content, archived. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.
If a post contains personal/copyrighted/illegal content, then use the post's [Report] link! If a post is not removed within 24h contact me at [email protected] with the post's information.