> if you didn't like it, then I'd be really intriqued to hear why. The character design was too painful and none of the characters were particularly compelling nor were their interactions interesting enough for me to force me to watch something that ugly It's the absolute worst of the 00's style of character design
Its been fucking forever since I've seen it, and I really enjoyed it. Nagisa's death hurt so much that I looked up spoilers so that I can prepare myself for whatever was coming next. I'm a real pussy when it comes to tragedy. However, looking back, the amount of melodrama and attempts at tearjerking throughout the series is kind of off-putting so I never rewatched it.
It changed my view of love. Since the display of love in this anime was so "unnatural" in the way that it ways perfect, unspoiled. Such love cannot exist in the 3D world hence why I gave up on finding it. I hate making compromises.
Clannad itself was pretty average, nothing too good, nothing too bad.
After Story was good, I know there was muh forced drama but as someone around Tomoya's age, I related a bit in the oh shit what am I going to do when I leave school stuff and I couldn't imagine how much harder it would be with a wife, daughter and shitty Dad.
The OST was very good and some of the voice acting was brilliant. I do agree that the big bug eyes is pretty shit though and the ending being undone was shit, I would have liked it if Ushio recovered and we got Tomoya moving on. Maybe have a dream sequence or something if you want Tomoya and Nagisa to be with Ushio just once.
I see a lot of people saying forced love/ending. To Clannad's defense, it makes sense in the actual VN more than it does in the anime, because in the anime the dragon balls fix everything ending just sorta fucking happens and you're like "How the fuck". In the game however it made sense because you were supposed to go around and collect all these orbs of light to actually get this last perfect ending. So you had to end After Story 2 times with Nagisa ending up dead just so you can get the last two orbs and then you get the last ending with everything together. I think that's After Story's biggest weakness. It follows the game too much instead of being it's own fucking thing, but I suppose this is also a problem you run into when adapting a fucking video game. Look at Yakuza and Ace Attorney.
>>136220646 To be fair, they did explain in the show about the orbs making wishes come true and they do show Tomoya getting one. I think the problem was that at the moment it became important, most people would be overwhelmed at Ushio dying and the Tomoya re-meeting Nagisa scene. I think it would have been difficult to explain the orbs in more depth without making it obvious they were going to get used.
The melodrama wasn't dealt with in a realistic enough fashion more often than not, and even when it was, a lot of the time it didn't make for great viewership. The arcs suffered from serious consistency issues with regards to the writing, and while I appreciate the expansive cast, a lot of them just aren't as great as they could be, partly because they had to give everyone some time and partly because the adaptation butchers them and takes away almost anything good that they had in the VN (Kyou's an especially troubling example). Besides the attempted unification of all the routes and the excellent visuals, there's no real reason to go through the adaptation rather than the VN.
Even so, when it's at its best, it's very hard to beat, and the emotions stick with you for a very long time. There's a comfy and involved kind of beauty to it that you just don't see very often anymore.
I absolutely didn't mind the art style either - even the VN one is more than acceptable to me despite its severe flaws. If anything, I find a lot of recent shows to be considerably more painful to look at these days.
Hell, Nagisa wasn't even my favorite girl and the overall work is still way up there for me.
>>136224602 You know whenever Clannad wants to make something appear sad? It always does the same thing, it does a dramatic closeup of characters crying, as if to try its absolute hardest to make you cry without just letting the scene sink in on its own.
>>136224602 Several points of Fuko's arc (particularly following the interactions with Kouko), the entirety of Kotomi's arc and the closing stages of Yukine's arc are all good examples, and it's largely down to the direction they took Tomoya in in the adaptation compared to the VN. Some of his interactions once he gets his job in AS mirror the ways in which his very behavior caused unnecessary cringe, but luckily not enough drama happens those times to actually get in the way. The VN deals with all of those examples far better.
A lot of that applies to Nagisa as well. She was exploited for emotional reactions so much before Tomoya's graduation.
>>136224602 Its a pretty stupid term but it basically means them inserting drama for the point of it being there. I know if you didn't have any, there'd be nothing in the show but Clannad does have an unneccesary amount and I'm saying this as a fan.
I watched one episode and laughed so hard when he got home and was acting like an emo about his alcoholic dad, that was so forced. Plus all the girls look so similar, I might play the VN one day but it's not an anime I'm particularly interested in. I have trouble watching high school dramas, I just can't really connect with them as much anymore but I understand why people are into that.
That said the porn is pretty good, I would have to say that the purple haired girl with smaller tits is my favorite.
>>136217757 I felt it got into its grove around episode 15, but the fact that it took so long exemplifies its poor writing. It's not the worst, but it falls into the shonen hole of the amount of value does not match up to its length
>Maybe have a dream sequence or something if you want Tomoya and Nagisa to be with Ushio just once.
That's actually what I thought the ending was. Tomoya already broke down before and this was the last straw. It was some hallucination, wanting the light orbs or whatever to grant his wish. But I guess I didn't know about the VN that >>136220646 has elaborated. Oh well, I'll believe what I want and that clannad didn't have a >dragon balls to fix everything ending.
After Story has the same flaws as S1. I might go as far to say S1 is better.
> Pacing is fucked up > Maeda spent his development shekels on baseball and all sorts of filler. > Ushio is relevant 3/4 through the season and then tthereare two infodump episodes where Tomoya uses the PAWAA BAARUs to save his waifu and daughter.
Clanned was average. It had some high points dragged down by a lot of garbage melodramatic writing. Afterstory was better but still dragged down by melodrama and deus ex machina. inb4 some VN faggot tells me to read the VN and the anime doesn't count. Fuck you VN faggot.
>>136230884 Shut the fuck up, stupid ass VN readers. Tired of you faggots responding to anyone who doesn't like an adaptation with hurr durr read the source material it's 100000x better. Faggot, If I had enough time to read the source material for every anime I was ever disappointed in I would still just watch more anime you stupid nigger. Fuck you
I'm mostly not impressed with Clannad, and my opinions have pretty much been said in this thread already, but lately I've come to appreciate the way Clannad handles Tomoya's relationship with his father. Tomoya's relationship with Nagisa and Ushio are basically meant to make Tomoya empathize more with his father. For example, Tomoya gets pissy about the way his father uses emotionally distant language ("Tomoya-kun" etc.) with him, but is much more mature and understanding when Nagisa does the same thing. One might appreciate Clannad a lot more by reinterpreting it as a story of Tomoya coming to a reconciliation with his father, but that might be giving it too much credit.
>>136217757 The show presented a really cool atmosphere, the music and artwork just melted together so well. This only happens in some shows - the whole production just compliments itself. That and I actually cared about the characters which is rare now.
>>136217757 What I really liked about Clannad was that they actually put effort into a romance anime. There is a scene where Tomoya and Ushio are leaving the house and he and the daughter both say goodbye to a picture of Nagisa. This scene is so great because they don't have to shove it down your facehole and explain how Nagisa would always have to say goodbye to all her family members. Instead they just have this half smile half frown on Tomoya's face and you are reminded of those earlier scenes. Directing like this is just not found in anime for some reason, there is no need to be subtle and therefore they don't. So it was nice to see a show take that route instead of just explaining every feeling the characters are feeling.
>>136231063 >Directing like this is just not found in anime for some reason, there is no need to be subtle and therefore they don't. So it was nice to see a show take that route instead of just explaining every feeling the characters are feeling.
I've known this for a long time, but for some reason it took you saying it to make me really *feel* how much anime sucks.
I think episode 18 of After Story is probably the best entertainment I have and ever will consume in media. Never has anything brought such strong emotions in me, for that one reason I have to say clannad is one of the best anime I've ever seen personally. I don't care if the shit is forced, the fact is able to convey multiple themes in a single episode without it coming off as pretentious or completely sudden is something I have yet to see in any other anime.
>>136231236 Yes its kinda sad. Take K-on for example. There is a scene at the start of the show where she is leaving the house and in her rush falls on her ass. Now in the last episode of season 1 we see the same scene but instead of falling over she balances out and keep running. Its great because in this one action the audience can be reminded of how she has changed. But they immediately ruin it by having like 2 minutes of her explain how she has now changed.
Clannad was a funny slice of life coming of age story that was relaxing to watch.
After story is a shot in the heart after watching Clannad as it gets away from the funny and warm feel it once had and starts to slap you in the face with some reality really hard. Im just glad it ended the way it did, if it was going to continue the way it was going i would have been sad for months.
KEY shows are nearly unwatchable once you realize the immense underlying emotional immaturity they represent. CLANNAD hardly even qualifies as being about humans. The girls that aren't outright non-human are embarrassingly immature, and stupid the point of being just plain retarded. They do not behave like real humans. Their relationships aren't even remotely reminescent of those of a regular human. They can function in society only because the writers boldly claim that they can. They are walking embodiments of the hangups of your average otaku.
Being the kind of wish-fulfillment fantasy it is, I found myself wondering: Am I really supposed to want this? Am I supposed to desire women like these, women who are this emotionally and intellectually immature? Am I supposed to desire women who are not even human? The whole thing is empty. There is no human heart in this fantasy. It is a fantasy of a fearful and insecure mind, and when you place yourself in the story, it is cold and barren, and frankly, somewhat frightening.
>>136233557 Fiction is not an excuse to have characters that are defined by a single quirky character trait. Characters should have depth, strengths, and flaws that conflict with the flaws of other characters to create drama. This is not what KEY does. KEY takes one-dimensional characters who are defined by their archetype and odd trait, takes that trait to the extreme, and then imposes conditions upon them that come out of left field or could have been easily avoided. This is then presented with melodramatic "sad" music and posited as being tragic. It is contrived. It is manipulative. It is easily avoided by anyone with even a modicum of script-writing talent.
With a tiny handful of exceptions (16-19 in After Story, basically), I didn't like Clannad. Part of it is that the characters they wanted me to grow attached to sucked, like Fuuko, Kotomi, and Yukine, but the bigger issue is that the show has no idea how to present its drama. And when it aims at dramatic moments, it's got all the subtlety of a sledgehammer, which makes it feel manipulative and false.
Kotomi's arc is a great example of the sort of archetypal Keyshit that goes on over and over in this show. For so much of Clannad, the drama comes from weird coincidences and arbitrary breakdowns instead of being a consequence of the characters' motivations and flaws. With Kotomi's arc, you've got Tomoya's bizarre amnesia about his childhood friendship, the shadiest looking family friend in the world stalking her everywhere, and an overdramatic collapse out of nowhere. Everything is based on some birthday party where Kotomi's parents just happened to die while Tomoya just happened to be planning something and he just happens to come by the house when it's on fire. And it ends with Kotomi's bear present just happening to show up when this later party happens, and the impact of that scene has to be rubbed in your face by this long-ass montage with sappy music while the bear goes around the world, like I can't figure out for myself why this is important.
There are more good arcs later on that don't suffer from these problems, but even they get sabotaged by the ending, where Tomoya's incredibly satisfying development in the back parts of After Story gets unwritten because of some magic hocus-pocus.
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