ITT: awesome moments in a series that were ruined later

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>>136214150
Even the author said that he should really have killed her.

Here, another great moment killed by feel good ass pull.

>>136214150
KAORU A SHIT, TOMOE WAS THE BEST WAIFU

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>>136214150
If we're posting shonen shit then Genkai's death

>>136214626
This would have been an awesome way to end the series.

>>136214150
This arc made me hate Kenshin, both the series and the main character.

>>136214728
What was the point of bringing her back anyway? That was her last big moment in the series.

>>136214626
>>136214150
Why did Araki kill Abdavol McMuslim, retcon him into actually being alive just to kill him off again in a splitsecond?

>>136214839
>>136214150
I don't even remember this part. When did this happen?

>>136214944
Jinchuu arc

>>136214754
Right?

First I was thinking,

-"Aw, a single bite and she is back. Easy and lame".

Then it comes that picture.

-"WOW! WHAT!"

Then there is a significative and touching story...

That it gets totally ruined in the last few pages.

>>136214968
That explains it

I stopped after Shishio's death

>>136214931
That was a good way to defy expectations at least. Nobody thought he would kill off someone who was just revealed to not be dead.

>>136214931
>>136215031
I heard he wanted Hol Horse to take his place but fans wanted Avdol back. Take it with a pinch of salt, though.

So pretty much any time a character comes back to life after having a dramatic death scene?

>>136215110
Yup, pretty much.

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For a number of reasons:
>Krillin was brought back
>Goku never actually sacrificed himself for the sake of those he loved
>The SSJ transformation was worf'd the shit out of as the series progressed

>>136215110
How many did Goku have?

>>136215118
This

It felt like a natural conclusion to the series

>Naruto resists the temptation of the fox
>Reconciles with his dad
>Finds a way to overcome hatred with talk no jutsu
>goes berserk over Hinata confirming NaruHina

Only loose end was Sasuke.

>>136215166
It gets said alot but the story really should have ended after the battle with Freiza.

>>136215118
I agree that the entire Pain arc was fucking destroyed by Kishi's feel good bullshit with Nagato, but ending the series there would have left a million loose ends.

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>>136215118
LOL, NO. YOUR DADDY AND YOUR MOMMY LOVED YOU!

Fuck. After the time skip there were so many ruiners that there was nothing left to salvage.

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>>136215263
He could have made a second series taking place years later where sasuke is the main villain. Of course, for that to happen, sasuke would have to be an actuall character rather then kishi's wet dream.

Clannad After Story's ending. The series really should have ended after the MC finally learned to with Nagisa's death and reconciled with his daughter.

>>136215334
Ok, you can criticize a MILLION things, but not that one. That was the best fucking feels moment in the series, and Gaara (probably the best character in the series) deserved it. And his dad did hate him.

>>136215166
In all fairness, goku didnt know that krillin could be brought back at that point in time. Piccolo was barely alive and sure would not be kept alive if frieza won

>>136215409
Still doesn't explain why everyone lied to him all those years.

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>>136215334
Sword manga. Sliced. No hero dies.

>>136215263
>Only loose end was Sasuke.
His arc should have fucking ended after he killed Itachi. That was the whole point of his character in the first place. Everything afterwards was nothing more than the author pulling shit out of his ass for the sake of keeping the drama.

>>136215556
Was that before or after the pain arc? I forget

>>136215644
Before.

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>>136215409
It was totally unecessary. He already had pulled himself out of the emo shit. It was just to show that evrybody in the world of assassins, I mean, ninjas, is good, soft, warm, blah, blah, blah...

Pic related.

Nope, he still dies following his destiny. And hey, Naruto your destiny is actually really good and you have an excellent pedigree.

>>136215781
Kishimoto basically fucked up the whole theme of the manga with that reincarnation shit

>>136215077
The fans are shit. Hol Horse is the shit.

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>>136215954
I wonder why Toriyama hates Gohan so much now

>>136214150
The entirety of Usagi Drop.

>Zabuza/Haku vs Team 7

Kishi just couldn't let them rest in peace.

>>136215077
Hol Horse never would have worked because his stand is too straightforward, there's only so many different ways you can write a guy with homing bullets. Then again that's also probably why he killed off Avdol, most times he'd end up just torching the enemy to shit before they can get a shot in.

>>136215936
He did it WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY before that. Kyuubi alone already fucked it up, and then being Minato's son sealed the deal. Everything after that is just bonus.

>>136214150
Toji should've died in NGE. He makes no further appearances in the series and him surviving cheapens the effect that it had

>>136216062
Holy shit he looks like a fucking pussy now. He was even more swole as a ten year old, which is almost as sad as a "god" betting his ass blasted by a wimpy laser beam.

>>136216190
Hol horse would have joined them when they got to Cairo, he'd have a fight or two to bond with them/redeem himself/show off, and then he would have completed his character arc and his redemption by pushing Polnareff and Iggy out of the way of the monster known as Vanilla Ice.

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>>136214150
It's not often you get to see a wimpy underdog slowly build up his courage and manliness over the course of a series, only to have it all destroyed in the most spectacular fashion imaginable at the very end.

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>beginning of Naruto
>Tailed Beasts are evil forces to be reckoned with and are so powerful villages try to get their hands on them through any means necessary. they were basically nukes.
>end of Naruto
>THEY WERE JUST MISUNDERSTOOD I-IT'S N-NOT LIKE I WANT TO HELP YOU OR ANYTHING

>>136216383
I still can't believe that ending. The anime is far superior to the manga.

>>136215781
I'm still mad because the sand killed Hayate and nobody gave a fuck about that.

>>136216383
Wasn't some new Needless series supposed to come out a thousand years ago? What happened to that?

>>136214626
Do you have proof of that? Because I do remember him saying that he wanted Kenshin to have a happy ending due to all the shit he went to. It's why he utterly hated that OVA where everyone died.

>>136216724
The Leaf are very forgiving people. I mean, they just let Orochimaru do his thing after all that shit.

>>136216724
Yea. And later that faggot Baki became a comedic good guy sensei. Fuck him. I wish the ANBU chick killed him.

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>>136216808

all the death in akuma no riddle

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>>136216062
He doesn't, just staying true to his character.
Why are Gohanfags such faggots?

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>>136214150
Man, would this scene still be funny if it was actually an accident.

>>136216973
>Ken is finally back
>He just got done eating half of Eto
>Oh shit finally we're done with this boring investigator shit
>We go right back into it but now with a new team and him clearly planning something

Not as fun as it could have been.

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>>136216973
True, but I think we need to go back even farther

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not regarding what you think of the manga as a whole, most people argue that ice hell was the best part

>>136216964

>spaghetti knight

>>136215781
That was bullshit when it happened. From the very first chapter Nardo was able to pull off high level techniques, and he's always had stupidly high levels of raw power. By that point his parentage had already been hinted at (with the subtlety of a sledgehammer).

>>136216760
Not him, but the the author said on one of the tanks comments that killing her for real would had fit the story and arc better, but he just didn't want to make a depressing manga.

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>>136217250
From the very first chapter Naruto was both a retard who never worked hard yet was constantly shown to work his ass off.

His room was filled to the brim with weights, used practice shuriken sheets, and tons of books on jutsu and theory.

Just handwave it as lazy writing trying to always force their MC into an underdog stereotype.

>>136217197
A lot of stuff was still within the realm of reason and villians felt developed, not just "IM THE GOURMET DEMON OF THIS ANCIENT PERSON WITH A CAPTURE LEVEL OF 8000"...what?

>>136217449
Then it's not really what that other anon said about 'he should really have killed her' since he was never aiming for a bad end. Not to mention, that would just turn Karou into Tomoe 2.0, which is just tacky.

>>136216383
Thank god someone agree. Traps are always good but Cruz was building up to something great,

>>136216383
>>136218044
>Going around defeating Needless by being a regular human
>Fuck it lets give him a needless ability
Still mad, he even had an entire harem of loli sisters and pretty girl squad members to fuck.

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>>136214150

>>136218982
That wasn't really ruined, it's just that nothing's happend with it yet

>>136215954
The only time Gohan was useful.

Also Piccolo fusing with Kami.

>Thread filled with Naruto
/a/ is so fucking shit now

>>136220932
It is a thread about shit, anon. It was expected.

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>>136217609

partially why gourmet casino also was so interesting, other than all the rape faces and coco being relevant

>>136214626
In the comments of the BR edition.

He basically couldn't pull it off.

This attachment to virtual lifes is also happening in SnK. Two characters who were scripted to die survived. At least ass pulls weren't done

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>>136214150

>>136221494
OP said awesome moments

>>136217192
RE was a mistake

>>136221237
Yes, but it's a thread about things that were good until X.
Yet the discussion here is stuff very late into the story. I think there must have been a large number of /a/nons with taste who committed suicide.

>>136217572

he also got into a huge fight with Neiji over the importance of Effort V Talent

>>136217572
That's funny, his training menu is almost exactly the same as Saitama's.

>>136214150
>>136214626
>>136214839
Jinchuu arc was easily the best arc in Kenshin and had one of the most satisfying conclusions ever. Plus it made sense for Enishi's character to fake Kaoru's death. Eat shit.

>>136222010
The manga should've ended after Kyoto

>>136222250
Fuck off.

>>136215334
>LOL, NO. YOUR DADDY AND YOUR MOMMY LOVED YOU!

Nothing really changed aside from his mother and uncle actually liking him, which doesn't really matter; I mean his dad was still a total dick who was everything that was wrong with Gaara basically. Even when the dad tried to redeem himself acting like he loved him or whatever, the results are still the same.

His dad had Gaara's uncle killed trying to kill Gaara, and then told uncle to mind-fuck Gaara with hatred as he was dying, because "Well if he's so much of a pussy that he'd be messed up by this much...".

The other kids still hated Gaara, and Gaara's dad alone makes up for Gaara's uncle really being legit with him when he said he loved him all those years back.

Since Gaara's dad alone is enough of a dick to be a dick for all three family figures in Gaara's life that originally some people thought hated him.

Gaara's dad didn't really love him anyway, he thought he was a failure literally all of his life. The only difference is that in the end he went "Okay, maybe you're not that much of a failure, I've decided since you beat me".

>>136215118
>frogposter
>narutard
Jesus christ go away

>>136223012
Same. Very disappointing.

>>136223012
What a fantastic moment.

>>136216808

That's the funniest thing. Kakashi/Naruto end up basically letting him get away with all of the insanely fucked up stuff he did that set in motion half of the mess that was the whole series.

Ahahaha old crazy uncle Orochimaru with his taking over peoples' bodies to be immortal and his clones and experiments, lol. What craziness you get up to you ol' dog. Heh.

But don't do that one thing again where you kill a Hokage. That was pretty bad. Now go run along you card.

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>>136217197
Jesus fucking christ, that was the epitome of the series. It took battles from typical to beyond the threshold. Now, being cleaved in two is just a flesh wound. This series flunked by the time they focused too much on komatsu

>>136221710
Well, to be fair, Naruto was good (for a shonen) up until filler hell at the end of part 1.

>>136215537
That's not even the right translation.

>>136226844

Yeah, it really awesome at right before the end of part 1 where characters is start to die one by one.

Too bad, kishi didn't pull it off and goes on the safe route.

>>136222010
>it made sense for Enishi's character to fake Kaoru's death
I could go in great detail why that entire arc is a piece of shit and how Enishi got absolutely screwed by that goddamned mary sue Kenshin, buti don;t think you're worth the time.

>>136226664
It feels like it got much weaker after gourmet world started. I don't think it got cancelled, but I can't think of any other excuse for the current pacing.

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I could post so much.

>>136214626
This, so much this.

it was dumb as fuck and would've been endearingly tragic.

But nope, mechanical heart and all sorts of ass pulls all for a happy end.

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>>136229474

>>136214910

The same could be said for most of the characters in the "Pain" arc of Naruto.

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>>136229606

>>136228340

Not him but I'm genuinely interested in hearing your reasoning. Do it for us, anon.

>>136229474
>>136229606
>>136229644
>>136229650
Bleach is literally a roller-coaster, it goes up and gets hype, and drops fast, but eventually it'll end.

>>136214150
>>136214626

Only Samurai X covered the Jinchuu arc!

NOT EVEN THE LIVE ACTION MOVIES WOULD TOUCH IT

>>136216264
One of the changes I like better in the manga, that and Kaji's backstory.

>>136229662
But there's so much to write goddamit.
Fine.

>Kenshin's past
>he's a self-righteous little shit who thinks that fucking assassination is ok if it's for ''higher causes''
>doesn't mind killing any innocent witnesses or the samurai bodyguards who are literally just young peasant boys trying to make it
>kills tomoe's fiance
>i mean, he fucking executes the poor bastard in cold blood, i've seen villains regret their kills more
>gives no shits
>later him and tomoe fall in love
>tomoe raised enishi on her own
>to him she is both a mother and her sister and he loves her as much
>didn't like akira at first but learned to because his sis loved him
>hated kenshin for what he did
>assassins come for kenshin
>they have to sacrifice their fucking lives to weaken the john cena that is a fucking teenage kenshin
>even weakened he's still winning ofc
>accidentally kills tomoe (i'll admit this wasn't his fault, but the whole situation was a product of his bullshit)
>enishi is so fucking traumatized HIS EYES AND HAIR CHANGE COLOR
>leaves for china and leads the most miserable fucking life
>at his lowest has to eat corpses and drink muddy water to survive
>spends his life practicing a super broken style to kill kenshin

>jinchuu arc
>fight with kenshin
>Himura ''John Cena'' Kenshin, with the adition of his already bullshit excuse that he uses a reverse edge sword (which already makes every guy he ever fought look like shit since he went easy of them) also gets quite literally put through the meat grinder before his fight with Enishi
>a fresh Enishi that dedicated his entire fucking existence to killing him
>cop guy comments how Enishi's style perfectly counters Kenshin
>a reluctant, near dead Kenshin STILL FUCKING MANAGES TO GET THE FIRST ATTACK IN THIS SITUATION
>everyone is like ''enishi would have been dead if the sword was real and he would have lost if he didn't see the tehnique used prior so he managed to somehow avoid it''
cont.

>>136230424
cont.
This is my biggest gripe with the series. Every fight is ''Kenshin is teh stronkest and he totally could have won if it weren't for muh pacifism''
And they cranked that up to 11 in the Enishi fight.

>Enishi gets off his tehnique
>intentionally makes it non-lethal
>goes after Kaoru
>FUCKING KENSHIN WHO LOST GETS UP BECAUSE MUH LOVE AND STARTS BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF ENISHI
>implied he would have ko-ed him
>has to get distracted, again a la John Cena
>enishi fakes Kaoru's death
>fagshin depressed for like a week BIG FUCKING DEAL FAGGOT ENISHI SUFFERED FOR YEARS AND HE WAS A THIRD YOUR AGE AND TOMOE MEANT TO HIM MORE THEN KAORU WILL EVER MEAN TO YOU YOU FUCKING PIECE OF DOG SHIT
>second fight
>enishi actually fucking wins because he remembers he has super powers or some shit
>instead of killin kenshin when he disarmed him goes for the ''kill yourself'' bullshit
>kenshin beats him
So, just to summarize, Kenshin brutally and coldbloodedly murdered and innocent young man who was on the verge of begging for his life which led directly into Enishi's sister being killed IN FRONT OF HIM, basically he killed the only two people Enishi had in the world.
After that Enishi clawed his way to the top, and trained a special super broken style combining swordsmanship with martial arts. You'd think with that kind of trauma and motivation and the style SPECIFICALLY DEVELOPED TO COUNTER Kenshin's he would have won, but NOPE. Kenshin has to get beaten to near death, and enishi has to see his style, and kenshin has to be reluctant and non-lethal and they STILL blatantly state that he would have won if just one of those things wasn't there. Fucking mary sue faggot ruined a kid's life and got away scott free.

>>136215537
>>136229474

All I want for Kubo after Bleach finally ends is for him to go independent. If he actually had the balls to tell the editors to fuck off and let everyone die when they were supposed to Bleach could have been M/AOTYAY. Killing Hinamori was the nicest thing Aizen could have done for her, he said so himself. Ice Kid? Fuck your prophecy. Dead. Byakuya? Asking Ichigo for help was the literal completion of his character arc. It was the perfect time to let him die. Jesus, the few times he actually lets people die it's so goddamn jarring because I simply do not believe they're dead, so it comes as a surprise when they actually stay that way.

God damn I used to love the shit out of Bleach. Fucking Namek broke me so hard.

>kill Kaoru, ruin Kenshin's life, and have Enishi win

Great ending, retard.

>>136230741
>All I want for Kubo after Bleach finally ends is for him to go independent.

Why would you want someone who created a best-selling manga because of his editors say "Fuck you!" to his editors?

Do you want another Star Wars Prequel to happen?

>>136230730
>>136230424
Man, it should have really ended at the Shishio arc, where the only reason Shishio lost was because bullshit regarding that it was too hot.

>>136230789
>have Enishi straight up win, Kaoru runs in before the killing blow, reminds him of Tomoe so he stops instictively, forgives Kenshin
Yes it is, faggot.

>>136230741
>>136230826
I just want him to continue Zombie Powder in a monthly magazine like SQ where the authors have more freedom than weekly shonen jump
The only thing I fear would be the pacing

>>136230913
Even Shishio was a victim of ''had Kenshin used a real sword he would have easily won''. That's why it's so shit, it makes every villain look weak compared to the gary stu MC.

>>136221494
This really was a great ending, until no one died.

>>136230986
Shishio would have killed Kenshin if not for those burn wounds
They both have that same thing going for them. The "if only they were at their best"

>>136231017

The moral of Shishio's story was that he couldn't accept his circumstances and limitations unlike Kenshin. Kenshin recognized that his full power evil true self would completely destroy him, which necessitated a drastic change in his way of life. Shishio didn't, and he was ultimately ruined by it while ruining the lives of many others around him.

>>136230986
Kenshin's a natural born killer who just wants a break after losing his love and skewed ideals
Maybe people should stop picking fights with him but no, they always have something to prove or an old vengeance to carry through.

>>136231190
>Kenshin's a natural born killer who just wants a break
Really? Enishi is 10 times the killer and sociopath Kenshin ever was, had a much worse life AND suffered longer, is blatantly stated to be physically superior and posessing of certain superhuman attributes, trained his whole life to kill kenshin, and used a super broken style that was said to directly counter Kenshins. The way it was written, prime Kenshin would have killed him in 1 blow.

>>136221428
Sasha and who else?

Also last I heard she was just given s time extension

>>136231270

Enishi is evil gary stu for the necessity of plot. Kenshin killed and butchered so many people that it ended up changing the course of history. He was a swirling weapon of mass destruction. Enishi is literally genius tier everything with a masters degree in I'm Better Than You because Kenshin already kicked everyone's asses.

>>136229697
>literally a roller-coaster
Literally means without metaphor or allegory, but the rest of the sentence is spot on! Keep it up and one day you'll be able to write english as well as a native speaker!

>>136231392
What the fuck are you talking about?
Enishi is so good because:
-he was already a little off as a kid and the trauma turned him into a full blown sociopath
-he overcame unearthly suffering and misery and it gave him unbreakable willpower
>he dedicated 15 years of his life just to obtaining enough power to kill Kenshin. 15 fucking years combined with unbreakable willpower and unstopable drive

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>they never meet

>>136230948
>Enishi wins against Kenshin then just because Kaoru says so, doesn't kill him

Spider-Man3/10 ending bro.

>>136230955
>Zombie Powder
>the manga that failed and got cancelled

Why even?

>>136214676
Sad part is that Kaoru was a decent character at first but towards after the Kenshin/Saitou fight, she really became a shit character. She kinda like a symbol of the weaknesses in the manga. I felt Kaoru encouraged Kenshin to basically run from his past instead of confronting it. And I kinda agree with >>136228340 in that Kenshin was kinda Marty Stu-ish in that Kenshin never killed in the manga. I would've done wonders for Kenshin's character development if he broke the oath at least once or at least question his oath.

And I felt the romance between Kenshin and Kaoru was kinda forced too. First time I hated the main couple in a Jump manga.

And as someone said, Watsuki really did plan to kill off Kaoru and it was explained in the extras. He didn't do it because he thought that Kenshin suffered enough, there were protests from the fans and that Kenshin is ultimately a shounen manga so he can't make it depressing. Which is stupid because 80s Jump was worse and it was complete bullshit.

Kenshin up to the Kyoto Arc was fucking ace though. But afterwards was a shadow of what it was.

>>136231544

You just sound like an Enishi fanboy to me. Why did you even read past the first chapter if your going to get mad at the main character for being strong and beating people up? The whole series was always about Kenshin beating up really strong guys. Its like reading onepunch man and getting mad that the main character is too strong. What the hell where you expecting?

>>136230826
Because like 80% of Bleach's hype died once editorial control really kicked in? Pacing slowed to a crawl, no one fucking died, goddamn Namek. I came back Facebook Friendster's arc. That shit was such a breath of fresh air. Such a shame he had to bring back the status quo at the end of it.

>>136231808
>I felt Kaoru encouraged Kenshin to basically run from his past instead of confronting it.

I feel like you've missed the entire point of the manga.

>Kenshin up to the Kyoto Arc was fucking ace though
>hurr durr Battousai hurr durr power levels

You're like that kid who loves the berserk dummy plug mode in Evangelion because you don't know better and you didn't realize the emotional significance of that scene.

>>136231724
Very funny.
If you're going to make a villain that wants revenge on the hero, don't make said revenge COMPLETELY FUCKING JUSTIFIED.
If you do, under no circumstances should you have that villain lose. The message that i got was: ''Kenshin was a bastard and ruined lives but he's teh stronkest so it don't matter''. What the fuck is this, Baki the Grappler?
Besides, if you used your brain you'd see that my ending makes perfect sense. Kaoru jumping in front of his sword reminds him how Tomoe died. Much better then that weak ass bullshit about him saving her from that shot.

>>136231895
I do hope you're not suggesting that Kubo's Kuboing was because of his editors and not him.

You're like one of those George Lucas sycophants that allowed him to make the abomination that is the Prequels.

>>136231846
My issue isn't about Kenshin being the strongest. It's about the fact that a villain with a completely justified grudge got completely fucked over. Why the fuck was Enishi even written in?

>>136215537
In all honesty, the only good arc in Bleach was the Intro Arc. I applaud anyone reading past the Soul Society Arc. I stopped around Volume 17.

But it had a really great premise, but shit, the pacing is horrendous and way too many characters and a lot of them go underutilized and forgotten.

That Onani manga ending sucked. He should've ended with the girl he likes.

>>136231960
>If you're going to make a villain that wants revenge on the hero, don't make said revenge COMPLETELY FUCKING JUSTIFIED.
>Kenshin was attempting to save his waifu from people and then kills her accidentally in the process
>completely justified

Oh god, you're one of those retarded Enishi fanboys who like him because he's "cool" and "badass", aren't you?


>Besides, if you used your brain you'd see that my ending makes perfect sense.

You don't have a brain to spare if you believe this is a good ending:

Enishi: I'm going to kill you but not because your girlfriend told me no to kill you!

It's like I'm talking to one of the makers of Seisouhen.

>>136232011
>a villain with a completely justified grudge got completely fucked over.
>a villain that killed his foster parents because muh grudge
>a villain that took over a Chinese mob because muh grudge
>a villain that's one-note "muh grudge" is somehow "justified" to kill Kenshin because he killed Tomoe by accident and her fiance because it's his fucking job

You're an idiot.

>>136232049
Soul Society Arc is the peak of Bleach.

It even had a great cliffhanger ending with Aizen.

>>136232060
>>Kenshin was attempting to save his waifu from people and then kills her accidentally in the process
He killer her fiancee in cold blood and that's what got them into that entire situation, you goddamned fuckjing retard. Enishi already hated him for killing Akira, and he loved Tomoe a hundred times more.

>Enishi: I'm going to kill you but not because your girlfriend told me no to kill you!
As oposed to: ''I'm the strongest so i suffer zero reprecussions to my actions and the one time someone overcame that he conviniently had a mental problem which stopped him from killing my girlfriend so i got away scott free again''? Always.

>>136232011

So you are mad because you liked the character and he didn't get what he wanted and the main character had his way. I'm sorry, but that's just how conventional story telling works.

>>136223012
Fucking this

>>136232095
>and her fiance because it's his fucking job
HAHAHAHA ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?

>>a villain that killed his foster parents because muh grudge
I never said i justified what Enishi did, though it's Kenshins fault he became insane, so there's that.
>>he killed Tomoe by accident
Akira's death set that up. Also, how about if you had one person in the whole world whom you loved, and i killed her, and said ''ups''.

>>136232157
>I'm sorry, but that's just how conventional story telling works
So, it's ok to be a hypocrite and a monster if you're the main character? Ok, gotcha.

>>136232147
>He killer her fiancee in cold blood

Because he had to do so for the revolution, tho.

Also, Enishi doesn't give a shit about his sister's fiance, so that's a retarded argument to start, mong.

>As oposed to: ''I'm the strongest so i suffer zero reprecussions to my actions
>zero reprecussions (sic)
>killers out to get him when he's minding his own business isn't a repercussion
>being forced to cleanup after the government even though he's retired isn't a repercussion
>anyone close to him in mortal peril every time isn't a repercussion

Fuck off.

>>136232212
>HAHAHAHA ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?

Are you?

>though it's Kenshins fault he became insane, so there's that.

He became insane because he wasn't aware of the context on why his sister died in Kenshin's hands (by accident).

His insanity doesn't justify him killing rich foster parents who took him in.

>>136232243
>So, it's ok to be a hypocrite and a monster
How is Kenshin a hypocrite and a monster again?

>>136232243

Kenshin has changed his ways, even if he was punished, it wouldn't bring anyone back to life. Enishi's lust for revenge could never save anyone, in fact, by killing Kenshin he would probably be indirectly hurting society since Kenshin helps so many people.

>>136232212
>>136232243
inb4 Enishi geocities shrine and fanfic

>>136232256
>Because he had to do so for the revolution
Oh, ok, my bad, then it's perfectly ok. Yea, Tomoe and Enishi should just go fuck themselves, how dare they hold a grudge against the divine warrior or righteousness.
>Enishi doesn't give a shit about his sister's fiance
He accepted him and was said when he was killed, both because he grew to like him and because Tomoe was devastated.
>>killers out to get him
Good thing he's a thousand times stronger then all of them.
>>being forced to cleanup after the government
Really tough for the second strongest man in the world.
>>anyone close to him in mortal peril
Literally never ended in tragedy, get the fuck out of here with that shit.

>>136231544
>he dedicated 15 years of his life just to obtaining enough power to kill Kenshin. 15 fucking years combined with unbreakable willpower and unstopable drive
guess he just sucked
seriously though, all of that shit is just bluff compared to what Kenshin has done. Kenshin was trained by the strongest man in the manga. Kenshin is a power house that decided he does not want to be a tool and is trying to repent by vowing never to kill again. You read Kenshin because the struggle of a killing machine who wants to stop fighting and settle down being dragged into bloodshed is entertaining.
Enishi definitely is strong but after the Shishio arc ended it just felt like an angry mob leader's story for vengeance which is exactly what it was. It was petty and nothing compared to Shishio's long arc that was better planned ahead.
We just needed one final arc to conclude the story and that's what Enishi served

>>136231936
>I feel like you've missed the entire point of the manga.
It wasn't a very good point. I completely understand what Watsuki was trying to do, just he didn't execute in the best way.

>You're like that kid who loves the berserk dummy plug mode in Evangelion because you don't know better and you didn't realize the emotional significance of that scene.

Nah, I just like good character progression and stuff more in gray than stark black and white.

>>136232142
The pacing was horrendous and the endless battles wasn't worth it. Kubo has great ideas time to time but his pacing is horrendous. I partly blame that on the editors too.

>>136232349
>Yea, Tomoe and Enishi should just go fuck themselves,

Nice Strawman projection, senpai.

>He accepted him and was said when he was killed

He also said it's okay if everyone else died except his sister, so...

>Good thing he's a thousand times stronger then all of them.

If that really is the case, he wouldn't have ended up crippled in the end of the series. You're a retard.

>Really tough for the second strongest man in the world.

Yet crippled.

>Literally never ended in tragedy, get the fuck out of here with that shit.

ITT: Enishi fanboy please visit his Tumblr fanpage everyone.

>>136232302
>Are you?
So, it's ok to kill if it's for muh higher causes and the loved ones of the victim should just go fuck themselves.
>He became insane because he wasn't aware of the context
None of that would have happened if Kenshin hadn't killed Akira. His choice to be an assassin for justice (fucking oxymoron) led to that.
>His insanity doesn't justify him killing rich foster parents who took him in
Of course, but then again, i never said he shouldn't suffer any consequences for his own evil deeds, now have i?
>How is Kenshin a hypocrite and a monster
hypocrite
>i'm the badass batousai, the killer for justice
>oh no someone close to me died i don't wanna do this anymore
monster
>kills peasant boys who are practically begging for their lives with zero remorse or pity

>>136232401
>I completely understand what Watsuki was trying to do

No, you really don't.

>Nah, I just like good character progression and stuff more in gray than stark black and white.
>muh Batman
>muh badass Kenshin
>muh Wolverine

Didn't fans like you die back in the Nineties, when the Dark and Edgy thing faded into oblivion?

>>136232445
The pacing didn't go to shit until the Fake Town arc. I was okay with Bleach's pacing because that's the typical pacing of shonen. Is it your first shonen?

>>136232446
You didn't counter a single one of my points except maybe the akira one. By the end of the series he has no enemies and badass friends if he ever needs them, and it's not like he has trouble with his daily life. Try again, retard.

>So, it's ok to kill if it's for muh higher causes and the loved ones of the victim should just go fuck themselves.

So you like a one-note muh Jinchuu villain whose only sole defining trait is his anger?

>None of that would have happened if Kenshin hadn't killed Akira. His choice to be an assassin for justice (fucking oxymoron) led to that.

Hence you loving a one-note muh Jinchuu villain whose only sole defining trait is his anger?

>Of course

I accept your concession.

>How is Kenshin a hypocrite and a monster
hypocrite
>i'm the badass batousai, the killer for justice
>oh no someone close to me died i don't wanna do this anymore

That's not hypocrisy that's him rediscovering his humanity.

>kills peasant boys who are practically begging for their lives with zero remorse or pity

That actually never happened. Read the manga, retard.

>>136232488

>ITS 2016 COME ON

>>136232522
Far from it and Soul Society's pacing was pretty bad. Remember /a/ was already calling it Namek. And it was absurdly long and the pacing was horrendous.

>>136232545
>except maybe the akira one.
>Kenshin actually faced consequences from his past by ending up too crippled to take up his sword
>Kenshin gained his friends not because of being the Battousai but by living his life correctly

It's like I'm talking to a secondary who only knew about the Jinchuu arc by reading online summaries.

Read the fucking manga.

>>136232664
>muh 1990s Edge

Or maybe 2000s were more your thing?

>CRAAAWLING IN MYYYY SKIIIIN

>>136232488
>implying that wanting things to be more gray means that I want it grimdark or badass
You can stop sucking Kenshin's dick now, anon. I don't want a badass Kenshin, nor I wanted a perfect Kenshin either (which you are arguing for).

>>136232671
The thing about Namek is that even though people keep complaining about its length, people were watching/reading it the most.

Also, Fake Town took like a decade to complete? That's Detective Conan pacing.

>>136232732
Nice Strawman. Also, nice deflection of the fact that you think Kaoru was bad for encouraging him to turn his back on being Battousai, which he himself wants to do.

>I don't want a badass Kenshin,

And yet you're crucifying Kaoru for encouraging him to be his present self?

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Even when he was full battousai, he didn't exactly enjoy killing. He was just naive and thought if he ended the war as quickly as possible, he could make peace. So I think it's a bit harsh when people here say he just killed Tomoe's fiance in cold blood.

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>>136214150
This shit was overused as fuck.
We get it, they're rivals.

>>136232483
see >>136232628

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There was no reason to bring him back to life

>>136231983
Not that anon, but in Japan if editors tell you to put dogs, you put them or GTFO.

>>136232628
>>136232684
>fanboy
Fuck off, faggots. I don't give a shit what happens to Enishi afterwards, and i didn't want Kenshin or Kaoru to die, but goddamit if Enishi didn't deserve to win. Just to show that justice wouldn't have eluded Kenshin, and it would also send the great message that the only reason he survived was because he changed (hence Kaoru saving him), and that the evil Batousai would have been killed by Enishi. You guys are retarded. Why was Enishi created if he was gonna fail so spectacularly? To show how strong Kenshin is? WE ALREADY FUCKING NOW. Enishi wasn't even a character, he was basically a plot device to kill Kenshin, and he completely failed on every level.

>>136232888
Kubo made a living because of his editors not despite of them.

If he pulls a George Lucas, you'll see.

>>136217250
>>136215781
>>136215936
you know, by "loser" Naruto meant that he was a lonely friendless ninja which no one respected or thought would amount to anything
People keep posting this shit and saying "Naruto was always a special snowflake" when the context of that fight was more about class and not power
Like holy shit, Neji's father died because he was born under the wrong shitty branch
How people miss that whole fight's message is beyond me

>>136232963
They make a living because their series are popular not because of the editors, some times is hit others is miss.

Now look at the current manga and answer honeslty, is it good?

>>136232941
>I don't give a shit what happens to Enishi afterwards,

>>136232483
>So, it's ok to kill if it's for muh higher causes and the loved ones of the victim should just go fuck themselves.

I didn't know we were playing politician in this thread.

>but goddamit if Enishi didn't deserve to win

He needed to lose or else he'd be a broken parable of the ends justify the means.

Ubel Blatt and Glenn, turn into such a fucking stupid side show ever since he got revived.

Revived Glenn is about to use an asspull to defeat Ascheritt's and the new blatt master's double black wing next chapter. Mark my words.

>>136232756
Difference between Bleach and Detective Conan is that Conan is really a mini-arc/episodic manga with a background ongoing arc type of manga. Bleach is not that. I didn't really read past the Soul Society Arc because it was dragging too long. I shouldn't have to read 100+ of one arch that should've really been half that length to get the point across. Yes, Hueco Mondo Arc was worse in length, but fuck Kubo's dreadful pacing.

>>136233026
>They make a living because their series are popular not because of the editors

The series is popular in part because editors help edit and reign some of the ideas Kubo has.

It hasn't completely worked and Kuboisms will spill, but the fact that it continues to be successful is a collective effort of Kubo's creativity tempered by editors who know what sells.

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>>136233042
>I didn't know we were playing politician in this thread
What the fuck are you talking about? I said i didn't want him to kill anyone.
>>136232816
A-ha. I'm going to post 2 pages. PLEASE try to say one good thing about Kenshin after them.

>>136233089
>Conan is really a mini-arc/episodic manga with a background ongoing arc type of manga.

As a consequences the main plot still drags on. Different execution, same result.

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>>136232816
>>136233117

>>136233117
>I said i didn't want him to kill anyone.

Enishi wants to kill everyone and has killed before.

Did you read the manga you're criticizing or are you just cherrypicking pages to support your headcanon?

I also love how you ignored my second point about Enishi winning being a broken parable of the ends justify the means.

>>136214150
wait hold up she really died?
If so, fucking dropped i guess

>>136216383
Giving that guy an ability made me not really want to read the Needless manga.

>>136233005
Neji's dad died because he was unlucky to be the younger twin that meant he was a branch member under the Hyuuga tradition. He basically died because of muh tradition and it created the belief in fatality in Neji.

>>136233117
>>136233153
Akira wasn't begging for his life. He's saying he doesn't want to die.

You're a moron.

>>136215265
Goku's story should have ended and Gohan should have been the MC

>>136233181
>Enishi wants to kill everyone
After Kenshin's crew defeats all his comprades and he has that change of heart with Kaoru he can get shot in the back or some shit. Preferably by SOMEONE HE HURT. HUH? What do you have to say about that? It also answers your second question. It would send the perfect message of you reap what you fucking sow.

>>136233117
>>136233153
How does that refute his point that Kenshin doesn't enjoy killing again?

>>136233282
>After Kenshin's crew defeats all his comprades and he has that change of heart with Kaoru he can get shot in the back or some shit

That's almost literally how Seisouhen animated the Jinchuu arc, and people hated that OVA.

Thank god you're not adapting the manga to anime. You, like the anime makes, have totally missed the point of the manga.

>>136233238
I said practically in every power you goddamned faggot. Also, are you telling me that this scene means nothing to you? Some poor kid crying how he wants to live to marry his sweetheart (which is practically beggin you faglord, he's begging god to live), and Kenshin executes him with no remorse.

>>136233097
If that was true SAO wouldn't be as popular as it is, and the writing is a total mess.

Same for web authors that are hugely popular, and guess what, Kawahara was one of them.

The editors just keep the manga on a "safe zone" that's why there is no deaths nor big twists and the reason why cliches are still a thing on shounen jump.

>>136220754
Fucking FKMT. Why would he try to milk it like that?

>>136233347
Except in the OVA he straight up got stomped and Kaoru had to save his life from Kenshin, if i'm not mistaken, been alive since i saw it. So they just made it even worse.

>>136233282
>Preferably by SOMEONE HE HURT. HUH? What do you have to say about that?
>everyone dies
>karma randomly stitches up all lose ends
>you can never atone for your past mistakes moral

Ending sucks desu senpai

>>136233194
C'mon read the OP
>were ruined later on

>>136233217
No arguing there. I just find it stupid how that fight is everyone's go to fight to explain why Naruto has gone to shit saying the theme was about hard work for power turning into Naruto being a reincarnated demigod bullshit (which is true) when the fight was more about hard work can change your social situation and to stop believing in destiny of where you belong just because you were born into something. That's what the fight was about

>>136233134
They are totally different plot structures, anon. Conan's background arc is not front and center, Conan never pretended it was anything else than wacky mystery adventures of a teenage guy stuck in a kid's body due to a botched poisoning attempt. You knew it was an event that will be address at the end of the series, but it is not the main focus. Bleach doesn't have anything like that. Yes, it does go reveal how Ichigo and his family are connected with the Soul Society and shit but there is no overarching plot that will be resolved at the end of the manga. It's a simple Hero's Journey plot structure.

>>136233365
So that makes your headcanon of Kenshin wanting to murder people correct because...?

>>136233405
>I just want my favorite character to win after he murdered people to the top because reasons then have him get killed offscreen by some other people not related to the main character lol

I'm guessing you're not a good writer.

>>136233418
>>you can never atone for your past mistakes moral
Kenshin doesn't die because he changed his ways. So yea, he did.
>>karma randomly stitches up all lose ends
I imagine someone like Enishi would have a lot of people wanting to justifiably kill him, i imagine at least one of those people would be comparable to him in drive and hatred, and i imagine they would wait for the most opportune time to strike. Like, you know, when he's exausted after a fight with Kenshin.

>>136230986
That was the point though. That was the entire point of the whole goddamn series. Kenshin is completely OP when it comes to killing and everyone agrees on that. But the whole point of his vow was that he didn't believe that killing was the way to forge a new future. Killing only led one place, and if he let himself do it, it would be admitting that there's no other way forward. Yes, it would be easier to win is he used a real sword, but it wouldn't be the end he wanted. Shisho believed that violence and death were forced that created a new world by destroying everything unfit to be in it. Whether Kenshin could or couldn't have beaten him more easily with a proper sword wasn't important when compared to whether he could defeat him with his principals intact.
It's a shonen series, so it's not like you ever expected the protagonist wasn't going to win/be right, but the essence of the story was never the difficulty of the fight.
The Ennishi arc was still horseshit.

>>136217572
What I always hated is how Kishi never made up his mind what kind of protagonist he wanted Naruto to be. He constantly flip flopped between the idiot in school/genius in battle character or the typical kid who gets stuck in extraordinary situations. Drove me fucking nuts.

>>136233554
>people follow main character
>he gets defeated by his main rival
>who then gets killed by some outsider that readers haven't been following all this time

Are you retarded?

>>136233548
>So that makes your headcanon of Kenshin wanting to murder people correct because...?
Are you ever reading my posts? I'm saying Kenshin deserved what was coming to him.
>inb4 Tomoe death
That was Enishi's tragedy infinitely more then Kenshin's. Like it or not, Kenshin was a fucking monster, and he got off scott free.
>>I just want my favorite character to win
read
>>136233554

>>136233238
>>>136233153
>Akira wasn't begging for his life. He's saying he doesn't want to die.
I don't know, anon. If someone says that they don't want to die to their would-be killer, I think they are begging for mercy to let them live.

>>136233554
>one of those people would be comparable to him in drive and hatred, and i imagine they would wait for the most opportune time to strike.

Sorbet/10, would Toei again.

>>136233655
>That was Enishi's tragedy infinitely more then Kenshin's.

So Enishi fanboy who wants the villain to somehow take over the story of an atoner that readers have been following all this time.

Gotcha.

So, basically, the story is ''Enishi is a collateral of Kenshin's bullshit and fuck him'' and everyone is ok with that? Ok.

>>136233664
So you're saying this is proof that Kenshin actually loves killing? Him doing his job?

>>136233717
I want to know why the fuck was Enishi created in the first place? What the fuck is his purpose in the story? He didn't do anything except drop some exposition.

>>136233664
So you're saying this is proof that Kenshin actually loves killing? Him doing his job?

>>136233740
He's a one-note "muh revenge" villain who killed his foster parents in favor of becoming an arms dealer in China.

Hard to sympathize with him.

>>136233763
Who the fuck ever said he loves to kill? I said he was a coldblooded monster, which is true.

>>136233782
>I want to know why the fuck was Enishi created in the first place?

Make anons like you sperg, probably.

>>136233799
I'll be straight with you anon. I'm a sucker for revenge and hypocrisy is something i can't stand, so this situation is playing up to all my tastes.

>>136233817
>Who the fuck ever said he loves to kill?

See: >>136232816
>Even when he was full battousai, he didn't exactly enjoy killing.

>>136233853
>loves revenge
>hates hypocrisy

Ends justifies the means, huh?

>>136233853
you should watch the Vengeance Trilogy by Chan-wook Park

>>136233117
>>136233153
I agree with anon that Kenshin never really learned a valuable lesson after this dickery. He never got knocked down even 1 peg because of his 2STRONG4U bullshit.

>>136233853
So you're reading Jinchuu Arc for all the wrong reasons, then.

Especially if you think "Enishi defeats Kenshin then Enishi gets killed by random guy who he did wrong in the past" is a better ending that will elicit less rage than "Kaoru's dead... Not!"

Especially considering that "Enishi defeats Kenshin" already happened in the first act of the arc.

>>136233906
I watched Oldboy. It's one of my favorite movies.
>>136233903
>Ends justifies the means, huh?
Only if the means are shit like saving the universe. I have no illusions about Enishi being a twisted, evil, bastard, but Kenshin was the one who made that monster, and now he gets to walk? Bullshit.

>>136233971
>He never got knocked down even 1 peg because of his 2STRONG4U bullshit.

Did you miss the part where he's broken and alone in the outskirts of town, mumbling to himself with all the other homeless people?

>>136233982
>"Enishi defeats Kenshin" already happened in the first act of the arc.
Oh, you mean:''Enishi barely defeats a half dead Kenshin who didn't want to kill him and only because he saw him fight first''? Yea, great writing there.

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Kenshin did nothing wrong.

>>136234003
>I have no illusions about Enishi being a twisted, evil, bastard, but Kenshin was the one who made that monster

Typical superhero story, though. Remember, Watsuki is a westaboo who loves >>>/co/.

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>>136217192
>His eyebrows shining, white beard falling upon his chest, outside his home the grass tatami, is laid out with a rustle, and in his dignified attus, holding his makiri, sharpening, sitting cross-legged, deep in thought, those eyes focus

>>136233982
>is a better ending that will elicit less rage than "Kaoru's dead... Not!"
Kaoru dying made me rage enough and as another anon said, would add nothing more to the story other then being a Tomoe 2.0
I feel that Watsuki should have never written Kaoru in a situation where she would appear dead just to elicit a despairing emotion out of Kenshin. Oh well

>>136234022
You're right, one week of that surely evens out all the suffering he caused.

>>136226298
to be fair, and i have not read everything in naruto, i stopped reading around the time sasuke learned what his brother went through then went evil i think... that was probably explained away at some point,

but orochimaru was one of the greatest science minds alive correct, so long as you can keep is ass under control, he is a valuable asset.

if i was confident i could keep him under lock and key, i would keep him alive to progress us further ahead too...

like the saying goes, its shocking what you can accomplish when you don't give a fuck about human life.

>>136234039
>'Enishi barely defeats a half dead Kenshin who didn't want to kill him and only because he saw him fight first''?

He better fucking barely defeat Kenshin, Kenshin at that point just defeated Shishio without going Battousai on him.

Your solution would have readers decrying Enishi as a typical Villain Sue.

>>136223012
>the one fight where maka just cut loose without that sissyboy Soul taking some of the spotlight
>the best fight in the series

Soul Eater would have been great if it had just been Maka and a supporting cast. People like Death the Kid and FagStar took up way too much time.

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>>136233971
Thank you anon, good to see someone knows what the fuck i'm talking about.

>>136232684
>Kenshin actually faced consequences from his past by ending up too crippled to take up his sword.

To me is not a real consequence. Kenshin already found worth in himself outside of his sword and it's not like there will be anymore threats afterwards that would need to he fully powered.

>>136234075
>it was one week

Read the manga.

>>136234103
>>136233971
>moronic power level fags

Warning: They ruin threads.

>>136234090
Enishi was straight up superhuman with a broken style more complex then any japanese sword style, an insane grudge and a refined killing instict. He was easily stronger then Shishio.

>>136222010
that denial

>>136234123
>To me is not a real consequence.

And yet you hated Seisouhen.

>>136234144
>Enishi was straight up superhuman with a broken style more complex then any japanese sword style,

Ah. So the truth comes out. Power level faggotry.

>>136234128
Ok, was it one month? I know it was a laughably small amount of time, been a while since i read it.

>>136234128
>>136234166
>Power level faggotry
Retard, it's complaining about the fact that the MC gets away scott free for his bullshit because he's untouchably powerful and not because he changed his ways as the manga would have you believe.

>>136234123
It's not a real consequence because muh badass Enishi didn't completely defeat him?

This isn't about story anymore, just power level fanwankery.

>>136234177
All this butthurt because Enishi didn't beat Kenshin completely.

You'd want him to beat him so bad that it's perfectly okay for you to have some random character from Enishi's past kill him to keep the "end justifies the means" broken Aesop from happening.

>>136216958
gohan got put through how much shit and should have realized that if he can easily loose everything if someone is given the chance to take it.

from my point of view, he could work and be productive in society without needing to dedicate his entire life to training, just in the off chance he could be the one to beat the bad guy.

how many time has earth been completely destroyed in this shits life? and he STILL REFUSES TO TRAIN?

>>136234231
As oposed to the ''if you're strong enough you can get away with anything'' broken aesop?

>>136234230
>the MC gets away scott free

Actually you're only arguing the MC got away "scot-free" was because Enishi didn't shit all over Kenshin in their duel.

You're even perfectly fine with Enishi getting killed by some random guy in his past to avoid the "ends justifies the means" Aesop as long as he shits all over Kenshin.

>he's untouchably powerful and not because he changed his ways

Literally powerlevel faggotry.

>>136234066
>Kaoru dying made me rage enough and as another anon said, would add nothing more to the story other then being a Tomoe 2.0
Except not. One, Kaoru functioned in a different manner than Tomoe. Tomoe was the one who showed that he didn't have to live the miserable life he did. Kaoru was more or less a reminder that the path he chosen was the right one for him. Two, that Kenshin killed Tomoe and Tomoe died hating him in some way, which is a big difference.

>>136234244
>and he STILL REFUSES TO TRAIN
why should he care when his dad and Vegeta will just protect the earth
Vegeta's is out of a self interest towards his family but the point is, earth has two big guardians

>>136234128
it's just stupid he's presented as heroic and against killing, when he ruined people's lives (who cares if it was accidently or he didn't enjoy it) and he still defeats everyone that challenges him and gets a happy ending while all the people he screwed over either suffer, die, or both.

>>136216395
that can more or less be explained with a shift in perspective. you live someone else's life for what 18+ years and tell me it won't change your view on the world... hell, a good book can do that in less than 3 days.

>>136234277
That aesop would be more for Enishi's if he wins against Kenshin the way you want it (completely shitting on Kenshin), actually.

>>136215077
What? this is why you never listen to fans

hol horse is awesome

>>136234313
the last arc that i remember the manga having was buu, buu killed fucking everyone to the point that his dad couldn't do shit.

>>136234314
THIS
FUCKING
THIS

>>136234314
>it's just stupid he's presented as heroic and against killing, when he ruined people's lives

He's against killing exactly because he realized he ruined people's lives.

He's atoning for his sins. He's not denying they never happened.

>>136216395
The Tailed Beasts not being completely evil is not a bad thing. After all, whatever we heard about them was from a biased perspective.

The shitty part was how they became easily caught like Pokemon.

>>136223012
what episode was this? i don't watch or read soul eater but this seems interesting to me

>>136234359
>wah, I don't want nuance in my characters, a killer is always a killer blah blah

Kenshin is a treatise against Saito's claim that a hitokiri will always be a hitokiri.

>>136234343
>don't listen to those fans, listen to us fans instead

Pure retardation.

>>136234368
This is one of those situations that pisses me off so much.
>some faggot kills your loved ones
>you dedicate your entire life to revenge
>literally your only reason for living
>go through hell for years
>finally strong enough
>life is suffering after i kill the faggot i might just kill myself
>find them
>''T-They changed their ways, they're good now, they're sorry for everything''
It didn't go down like this completely, but this is one of the worst situations i can encounter in a work.

>>136234418
Kenshin doesn't have much nuance as a character though. Going from indiscriminately killing to never killing again is basically going one extreme to another.

>>136234465
>''T-They changed their ways, they're good now, they're sorry for everything''

Enishi didn't give a shit and pounded Kenshin anyway.

>It didn't go down like this completely, but this is one of the worst situations i can encounter in a work.

Yes. Everyone knows how terrible The Count of Monte Cristo is too.

>>136234418
The story is literally saying ''fuck everyone he hurt, get over it or fail miserably and suffer or die trying to get vengeance''.

>>136234488
>Going from indiscriminately killing to never killing again is basically going one extreme to another.

This is why I hate secondaries who never read the manga and isn't aware that Kenshin teteers to the edge of killing again every time he faces a powerful opponent.

>>136234488
not killing at all is not an extreme in any way you put it

>>136221237
doesn't matter, /a/ shouldn't even be reading naruto

>>136234368
But I guess karma dictates he still get's cute girls and stays undefeated anyway. There was just a disconnect there that made him feel unrelatable. Like he's trying to atone for these bad things he's done, but he keeps coming up with the favorable outcome everytime for reasons I don't understand beyond I'm supa stronk bullshit.

>>136234527
I didn't mean worst as in bad writing, i meant worst as in i can't stand it.
>Enishi didn't give a shit and pounded Kenshin anyway.
Which is what my previous post is about, would you NOT after going through what i described?

>>136234543
the story is a struggle for a killer trying to find meaning outside of killing
it's not rocket science, it's blatantly laid out to you as a redemption story

>>136234582
I can't wait to see how the faggots try to refute this. 11/10 post anon, put it better then i ever could.

>>136234543
So ends justify the means every time for you?

Even though seeking revenge has caused entire families to die off, especially when it just renews the cycle of revenge?

>>136234582
>But I guess karma dictates he still get's cute girls and stays undefeated anyway.
>stays undefeated
>defeated by Enishi
>almost dies by Shishio's hand
>has a draw with Saito

Powerlevelfag please.

>>136231983
if lucas had the balls to keep going with his plan of having jarjar be the sith master behind the master, it would have been fucking amazing, no excuse for the pacing, but jar jar would not have been the abomination he is today.

>>136233378
cliches are a thing because they are common,
you can call every single plot device a cliche at this point because everyone has been done... its what you do with them that counts.

>>136234570
that was also in the anime though

>>136234612
Except a good story of that kind would have him either die at the end saving a life, or go american history x on him and have a loved one killed by someone who is the same as he once was. Kenshin did neither, he just wait ''i is teh stronkest'' and everyone lived happily ever after, except all the victims of his rampage.

>>136234589
>Which is what my previous post is about, would you NOT after going through what i described?

Kill Kenshin, have his friends go after you afterwards. Renew cycle. Ends justify the means. Brilliant plan. 10/10.

>>136234615
>>defeated by Enishi
Please stop saying this, it wasn't anywhere near to a clean defeat. In fact, after Enishi ''won'' and went for Kaoru, Kenshin started beating the shit out of him to the point that Enishi needed someone to distract him. Fucking disgusting.

>>136234570
LOL, is that your only defense.

BWAHHH SOMEONE IS NOT AGREEING WITH ME, THEY MUST NOT HAVE READ THE MANGA111!!!!

The problem that he doesn't do it at all. It delivers a false threat that loses its effect pretty quickly.

>>136234649
He didn't go from never killing again immediately, he still had to kill and make the Bakumatsu end before living his life as a hermit with a toy sword.

>>136234671
>except a good story would have things happen the way I want it too
>rationalizing power level faggotry even though Kenshin was defeated and Kenshin did suffer a break down until it was revealed that Kaoru was still alive

>>136234751
>even though Kenshin was defeated
read>>136234720

>>136234571
In the situation that Kenshin was in, it was.

Thinking all killing is bad is an extremely naive and dangerous way of thinking.

>>136234720
>>136234771
>Please stop saying this, it wasn't anywhere near to a clean defeat.
>countered Kenshin's ultimate attack
>was able to "kill" Kenshin's girl
>not a complete defeat

Seriously, the only reason you hate this is because your favorite charater didn't shit all over Kenshin.

This is just excessive power level faggotry over your favorite character who's just a shit one-note character at that.

>>136234615
It's not about powerlevel, but all those times were written off with "Ken coulda won if he was srs" which dissolved tension. I just agree that whatever moral the story had was lost by it's poorly done conclusion.

I'm done arguing about this too, I'm just trying to share my opinion. Your getting defensive and keep calling me a fag so I'm going to stop responding.

>>136234812
It totally is since Kenshin was defeated and you want Enishi to defeat him more.

It also totally is if you think "Enishi didn't get his revenge unless Kenshin was fighting totes serious".

>>136234791
Except Kenshin doesn't think that and he made an attempt at Shishio's life knowing how dangerous Shishio is.

Fucking read the manga, mong.

>>136234791
Then again, in his situation where he's a known killing machine, he has the power and means to stop and cripple people he goes against that threaten his life and the ones around him
I don't see that as a dangerous way of thinking.

>>136234812
>Your getting defensive and keep calling me a fag
Is this your first day on 4chan, sweetheart? Are you triggered? Do you want a safespace?

>>136234853
No, I just feel if you want to claim Enishi even "defeated" him to begin with, it should have been an actual defeat, not just a "Ohh you made da Ken mad now, prepare to regret your life choices"

>>136231425

I fucking hate people who use "literally" for everything.

Happens also in spanish.

>>136234983
Jesus came back you know

>>136234809
You're pathetic. You have no argument, so you keep returning to powerlevel bullshit without even responding properly to my posts. HOW THE FUCK DID ENISHI WIN? He needed someone to save him in their first fight because a dying Kenshin was beating him to death with his bare hands. Then he couldn't kill Kaoru very conviniently. He didn't do SHIT. At most, he had Kenshin depressed for a small period of time and stirred up some memories.
> the only reason you hate this is because your favorite charater didn't shit all over Kenshin
No, i hate this because of everything me and the other anon said. Ken slaughtered people, a good deal of them decent btw, by the hundreds, and he gets to live a happy life because he's strong while at the same time playing a goddamned martur.

>>136234812
>It's not about powerlevel
>b-but Enishi didn't fight Kenshin when he wasn't holding back, he should be STRONGKEST

You're contradicting yourself.

>>136234980
It was an actual defeat. His ultimate move was countered (even Shishio couldn't do that) and his not girlfriend was "killed" (he couldn't protect her).

You're just mad Kenshin defeated him afterwards to make him an aesop that the ends doesn't justify the means.

>>136235035
>His ultimate move was countered
BECAUSE KENSHIN WAS HALF DEAD AND ENISHI SAW IT USED MOMENTS PRIOR AND HE STILL GOt HIS ASS KICKED IN THAT FIGHT

>>136235018
But your argument is powerlevel bullshit. You don't count Kenshin's defeat because it wasn't a "real" defeat since Enishi didn't shit all over him.

You just want Enishi to win, even to the point of allowing someone else to kill him that readers don't know or give a fuck about to avoid the "ends justify the means" implications.

Sorry if you didn't realize this is Kenshin's story.

>>136235082
>BECAUSE KENSHIN WAS HALF DEAD AND ENISHI SAW IT USED MOMENTS PRIOR AND HE STILL GOt HIS ASS KICKED IN THAT FIGHT

In short, power level faggotry because Enishi wasn't more powerful than Kenshin.

It's not revenge unless Enishi kills Kenshin with universe-ending punches.

>>136235082
>AND HE STILL GOt HIS ASS KICKED IN THAT FIGHT

Damn straight he should get his ass kicked. Kenshin just beat Shishio.

What is it about the "Strongest Hitokiri" title do you not understand?

>>136235141
>You don't count Kenshin's defeat
I'm seriously begining to think you're autistic. Kenshin was winning their first fight WITH HIS BARE HANDS untill one of Enishi's crew distracted him.
>It's not revenge unless Enishi kills Kenshin with universe-ending punches.
You really are autistic.

>>136216558
The anime is fucking garbage.

>>136235200
>Kenshin was winning their first fight WITH HIS BARE HANDS

And yet Kaoru still "died".

Lawyered.

>You really are autistic.

You're obviously getting emotional and not putting up any coherent arguments other than random insults.

I accept your concession.

>>136214150

While i don't think Kenshin ever got ruined i would say killing her and ending on a tragic note would have been great.

I like tragedy and pyrrhic endings.

>>136214910
And at the end of the manga she dies again

>>136235003
>>136231425
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally
>yfw 2

>>136235268
>And yet Kaoru still "died".
And yet Tomoe died for real, 15 years prior. Kenshin writing is garbage. Junchuu arc should have never happened.

>>136235082
>BECAUSE KENSHIN WAS HALF DEAD

Because Kenshin just got sliced up by Enishi. Enishi defeated Kenshin. What's your problem?

You want this punk-ass mobster to not be touched by Kenshin at all because he appeals to your revenge fetish?

>>136232445

>>136232522


I personally think the TYBW arc has better pacing than the whole Arrancar thing. It's got less "designated fights" and more general chaos, plus, the origin of the whole story is being revealed through various battles and encounters with the main villain. Before it was just dozens of cool fights with Aizen's actual business crammed into a few dozen chapters. While the whole Vandenreich thing is a more entertaining heroes vs. villains melee as a whole. I mean sure, it's all really slow, but I read through the manga after finishing the anime up until a year ago when I caught up. Sure the Stern Ritters suffer from being mostly undeveloped, but I think if the anime comes back it's gonna impress many fans.

>>136214910
Togashi taking a dump on his series so that people would stop forcing him to make the same story over and over again.

>>136235325
>Because Kenshin just got sliced up by Enishi.
No, it was because the corpse puppet guy came in a fucking dreadnought and beat on Ken with literall building busting punches before the Enishi fight. Ken, of course, tanked all of that and won.

>>136234898
But he didn't go through it was the problem.

>>136234920
You think crippling people would stop them being threats? They may not be able to but they can find others who are willing to do it for them.

>>136235319
>And yet Tomoe died for real, 15 years prior.

You're changing the subject. Kenshin was still defeated by Enishi though.

>>136235364
So Kenshin was beaten up even more and yet you're upset he hasn't suffered enough because Enishi didn't shit all over Kenshin even though it was established that Kenshin is the strongest hitokiri?

Powerlevel faggotry.

>>136232483
>So, it's ok to kill if it's for muh higher causes and the loved ones of the victim should just go fuck themselves.
That's just war, dude. That's a common occurrence in reality.

>None of that would have happened if Kenshin hadn't killed Akira. His choice to be an assassin for justice (fucking oxymoron) led to that.
How many shounen have you read/seen exactly? Seriously, this shit happens all the time in Japanese fiction.

>Of course, but then again, i never said he shouldn't suffer any consequences for his own evil deeds, now have i?
Then why act like he deserved to win when he clearly needed to be punished himself for past deeds.

>hypocrite
>i'm the badass batousai, the killer for justice
>oh no someone close to me died i don't wanna do this anymore
That's not being hypocritical. That's realizing your wrongdoings and rediscovering your humanity. RuroKen is hardly the first series to do something like this.

>monster
>kills peasant boys who are practically begging for their lives with zero remorse or pity
I'm looking at my copy now, and Akira's companions were warriors as well. Can't even call them peasant boys either from their look. As for not showing pity, he looks upon his body saying, "May you live happily in your next life."

Did you even read the manga, or did you just watch the "Reflection" OVA? Reflection doesn't even adapt that arc properly to begin with.

>>136235404
>But he didn't go through it was the problem.

He couldn't go through with it because Shishio scouted that attack.

He's still lacks the delusion you claim he has. It's not canon, son.

>>136215409
Konan is the best character.

>>136235319
>Junchuu arc should have never happened.

Just because you don't get it doesn't mean it's bad. It's just you having shit taste.

>>136235428
>As for not showing pity, he looks upon his body saying, "May you live happily in your next life."
Oh, ok, Enishi should have totally killed Kaoru in front of him and said the same thing. Shit would have been hilarious.

>>136235420
It's not revenge unless Enishi pulls a Goku versus Trunks on Kenshin, y'see.

This is how Enishifags think. At least Enishi himself had the common sense to use his comrades first to gauge how powerful Kenshin is before fighting him.

>>136235494

To be fair anon, the author flat out admitted some of the bad guys in that arc were stale.

File: ?.gif (473KB, 480x270px) Image search: [Google]

473KB, 480x270px

desu this argument has gone around in like three circles, I think all the points are dried up fampais

>>136235296
>i would say killing her and ending on a tragic note would have been great
I feel like Watsuki wrote himself into a corner with >>136214150

Thematically it fits with Kenshin's past sins catching up to him but overall accomplishes nothing
It's like two contradicting feelings in the author: that a character doing his best to redeem himself should be awarded, or take away what's most precious to him to show the pain of the families of those he has killed. But Kenshin had already lost Tomoe which so he already knows the pain of losing someone he loves and he has already realized that he ruined Tomoe's happiness, her fiance's and her little brother's for ever getting involved with her. That part pain has already been accomplished and Kaoru does not deserve to die just to add another wound similar to Tomoe's.

I agree that Kenshin should have lost the fight in his condition but I already acknowledge how badly planned that whole fight and final moments of the arc were so I don't care. It's less offensive that Kaoru's "death" being used so shallowly and make Kenshin depressed again.

>>136235494
>Just because you don't get it doesn't mean it's bad.
Please explain it to me then, oh wise one.

>>136235523
>Oh, ok, Enishi should have totally killed Kaoru in front of him and said the same thing.

The only thing stopping him was his inability to kill girls the same age as Tomoe when she died.

His foster parents and all the other people in the mob wasn't so lucky.

>>136235587
Read the thread.

>>136235593
It's plot contrived bullshit to get a happy ending.
>>136235545
Kill yourself. And btw, Kenshin was the one that pulled Goku vs Trunks on Enishi and you're perfectly fine with that.
>At least Enishi himself had the common sense to use his comrades first to gauge how powerful Kenshin is before fighting him.
Which didn't do shit because he still completely lost the first fight.

>>136235564
Imperfections doesn't make it bad either, which is a subjective point anyway.

>>136235624
Oh, so you don't know shit either.

>>136235658
>It's plot contrived bullshit to get a happy ending.
see >>136235581

Killing Kaoru would've accomplished nothing since Kenshin already had that lesson from Tomoe.

>Kenshin was the one that pulled Goku vs Trunks on Enishi
>fails to save Kaoru
>his ultimate attack fails
>even his punches barely faze Enishi

Seriously not seeing the parallels.

File: ApachaiDies.png (351KB, 642x509px) Image search: [Google]

351KB, 642x509px

>>136214150

I think it's almost universally agreed that Apachai should have died.

>>136235690
So you can't read?