Just spent the last couple weeks playing through the F/SN VN. I know I'm really late to the party, but I wanna talk about it dammit. So, fate/stay night thread. Topics for discussion:
1. Illya: Why couldn't you protect her smile /a/?
2. Rin: how can one girl be so best?
3. Who else agreed with Shirou at the end and decided Kotomine was actually a cool guy?
4. Shinji: How the hell is he not immediately killed in any route?
5: What scene inspired actual emotion in your shriveled cold heart anon? Pic related for me.
>1. Illya: Why couldn't you protect her smile /a/?
You've got it wrong. You don't save Illya's smile, Illya saves your smile.
Illya was sacrificed to Sakura could keep her route. Do with that what you will
Still, what's the chance of F/SN getting a remake like Tsukihime is?
>agreed with Shirou at the end and decided Kotomine was actually a cool guy
I knew he was great from the moment we went to the restaurant together.
Too bad he gets to shine in the most useless and meaningless route.
Please fuck no. Enough with the fate, and let Nasu do something new. I'll let the Tsukihime remake slide because the original is laughably dated and had poor production values even back when it came out, but let the Fate die already. It's had a good run.
You're talking about the one which will maybe come out in twenty years?
So much of this.
Literally the only girl who was actually good in her own route was saber and I even dislike her.
HF is kotomine/illya route in my head.
Sadly no, I just always ignored the franchise. I tried out the VN years ago but couldn't make it through the prologue. To be perfectly honest, I saw an AMV with scenes from Fate/Zero, though it looked sick, decided I had to get through the VN before I could watch the anime, and here we are.
Right? I mean the whole orphan farm was a little much, but then the tofu scene comes up and its amazing. Then the guy goes and becomes MVP of the whole route
Tsukihime's getting a remake? I already decided to give it a shot, but I'll hold off if a new version's coming out
I don't get all the hate for Sakura. Clearly, the other heroines are better, but jesus, the poor bitch has had it rough. I mean, how would Rin have turned out with her life?
You are not familiar with our boy Nasu's workpace it seems. Or the effectivity of the VN translation scene. It will take years before the remake comes out, and even longer for a translation. You'll be getting yout hands on it 2025.
>I'll hold off if a new version's coming out
Anon, I asked /a/ if I should play Tsukihime now or wait for remake.
I ended up playing it since they told me to play it instead of waiting.
That was in 2012 or so.
Sakura hate is 50% because of the character, 50% old meme. But the character is hated because of her aggravating role as the girl who faints all the time, her willingly giving in and becoming the bad guy despite not being directly controlled by AM, passive doormat behavior, her bad voice in the VN, unimpressive design and some weird reasons like that one anon that pops up every now and then and claims her skin is yellow.
No, I don't frequent that board
if that's the case, I'll put it on the to-do list after I get through Fate/Zero & F/HA.
I'd have a big dam sob story too if I was in her shoes. She didn't meet and overcome her challenges like Rin did, but Rin didn't have all the Shinji rape either. For all her failures, I still think she's sympathetic character
He wrote CCC and Grand/Order since then, and is writing Tsukiihime on the side, which is now called Tsukihime R and takes place in a new city.
He considers CCC one of his best works
>I'd have a big dam sob story too if I was in her shoes
It was a shit sob story. It was just here she went through some worm rape and got raped, please feel sad I made it as extreme as I could.
>I don't get all the hate for Sakura.
A lot of it is memes, that took on a life of their own after ten years here. Which she won't ever recover from on /a/, you can't mention her without the memetic associations.
The rest of it is personal taste or rationalizations. Also I see some "Well I hate her because this", "Well you like Kotomine when he does the same thing, or Kohaku", "Well, that's different, I don't fault them for it, dammit, I mean I like them, there's a difference. Okay, I really just hate her because she's boring, not because of that previous thing" sort of thing at times.
That's what I mean by rationalizations; people try to create a logical reason for the hate, but they love a character who does the exact same thing they just said was bad. So it can't be the trait itself that was bad. When really all it boils down to with Sakura is a far less deep or logical reason, you just didn't care for her. Sometimes people want a deep reason to justify the hate, but maybe you just didn't really like her.
It can be simple in the end
> Illya: Why couldn't you protect her smile /a/?
She's an adult and can take care of herself
> Rin: how can one girl be so best?
Tsundere are always bestest
> Who else agreed with Shirou at the end and decided Kotomine was actually a cool guy?
Certainly not me
> Shinji: How the hell is he not immediately killed in any route?
He did nothing wrong
> What scene inspired actual emotion in your shriveled cold heart anon? Pic related for me.
Rin's anal scene
I can understand that (maybe not the yellow skin thing), she's very much a victim and often a helpless one, which can be tiresome. I liked her VA though, thought it suited her well. I also like that Gil technically jobbed to her. I definitely like her design the least though; she's gotta be miffed that Rider's always gonna be there upstaging her.
Additionally, I was really pleased that Rider made it to the end, probably too much. She's the best looking imo, but she's got so little screen time & development. I think I just liked having a character that was clearly 100% in Sakura's corner, or maybe that Rider was such an underdog compared to the other Servants.
Maybe because those character's had charisma while Sakura lacks it? I also see people like you trying to undermine others opinions on the matter because they don't share your love for shitty uncharismatic characters.
1 - Can't be helped. She will forever live in our hearts as best girl.
2 - Rin is not only great by herself but she's OTP as fuck with Shirou
3 - Kotomine is pretty cool. I mean i'd still kill him given the chance but he's cool.
4 - He deserves to suffer before dying
5 - Archer vs Shirou will forever remain my favorite fight scene ever
Does that fucking matter on the issue at hand? We are discussing how likable a character is and why people hate some. You undermine it saying that they both did the same thing but when one does it with charisma and the other doesn't the difference is as clear as night and day.
Kohaku is Sakura written correctly.
In a way that does not excuse her actions.
In a way that you can actually give a shit about her character and personality beyond "aww suffering"
Isn't that the point he's making? That you like Kohaku because she's an awesome character and hate Sakura because she's fainting whisper girl and the sob story is not the reason at all because they share it.
Rin is a goddamn champ, nothing can stop her. Wade through a lake full of curses & tentacles? no problem. Got some blockhead bleeding out from a lance to the heart? Boom, uses an irreplaceable heirloom to fix that shit. Getting crushed by Hercules himself? Nuke him in the face. Need to get a couple of blushing virgins to fuck to literally save their lives? Rolls up her sleeves and gets fluffing.
My point is that Rin is the best.
Let's make a list of all the people Kohaku killed or attempted to kill:
>Shiki, the boy who always waved at her in the window to come out and play with them
>Akiha, the girl who gave her the closest thing resembling family and took care of her
>SHIKI, a victim of his bloodline
The list of people she DIDN'T try to kill:
>Hisui, her sister, albeit she tried to kill virtually everyone she cared for
>The old guy that raped her, the perpetrator behind her plight
It's amazing how the best girl and worst girl can be sisters.
Just because you think Sakura is not charismatic doesn't make it true nor does it mean everyone thinks the same.
There's a reason she's the 8th most popular TM character, and there's a reason a lot of people(leaving /a/ shitposters aside) like her in the west too.
Just because you don't agree on why people like her doesn't mean your
>She has no charisma
Is true. Maybe she doesn't appeal to you, but she has something that appeals to someone else.
So to resume: Don't think your opinions about something are facts.
But did Shinji really suffer? aside from when Rin verbally fillet him, I think he was too deranged to comprehend suffering outside of being upset that something, yet again, did not go his way.
How much trouble could have been avoided if say, instead of just letting him leave Shirou's house, Shirou instead asks Saber to walk him home? Walking home of course being code for discreetly dragging Shinji into an abandoned alley and breaking his neck.
Rin a shit.
Lorelei can casually do the same shit Rin does with her strongest jewels
I'm not even the same anon.
I'm just saying you need to stop talking like your opinion is a fact and that is universally agreed Sakura has no charisma or is boring or that nobody likes her because you don't. Faggot
Shinji...I don't get why he gets all the hate on /a/. FSN is just written to make him out as the bad guy, when really he's no worse than any of the 'protagonists' and a better person than most of them.
What are the main complaints? He raped Sakura and stole Rider to use in the war?
Okay, let's get this straight. He never fucking raped Sakura. He never did it. He never did it. He never did it. He never did it. He fucked Sakura.
Let me ask you this. WHO IN THE GAME DIDN'T FUCK SAKURA? You can't even name one fucking character who hasn't plugged her loose cunt! She is the kind of bitch who will act like she doesn't want it when she really does. She'll say No! while having multiple orgasms. Shinji knew this, he's a fucking ladies man. He knows what filthy whores like Sakura want.
And there's this other big bitch you guys have with him. He supposedly stole Rider and used her in the war for his own greed.
Objection! He was worried about his one and only precious sister. Is keeping your loved ones from a brutal war so wrong? When Shirou does the same thing to Saber it's like 'oh he's so manly', but when Shinji does it it's wrong? He just wanted to protect Sakura. He probably was going to use his Holy Grail wish to tighten her cunt back up or cure her syphilis or something.
The story was written to make that faggot Shirou look good. Objectively, Shinji is a far better character than Shirou. At least he has the balls to take action decisively instead of dicking around like Shirou, and if he weren't stuck with the weak ass servant Rider and no plothax he probably would have won the war.
He's only beyond them because he has a better container. It's been a known fact since forever that Heroic spirit>>>>Servant, Solomon has a container that lets him use all of his power while the rest are nerfed.
>Mordred: You’re telling me we’re second fiddles to you!?
>Andersen: Don’t let him goad you, Mordred. It’s not a matter of rank. It’s the vessel, the authority that he’s given. He’s nothing more than a Heroic Spirit in a greater vessel than ours. If we’re weapons used against individuals, he’s a weapon used against the world. He’s at the peak of Heroic Spirits having the same attribute. In other words, he’s a Servant with a Grand vessel.
No, he's beyond them because he's a guy that earned being able to use that better container in the past, because he's one of the strongest servants in existence and at the top of the Caster class.
Even without the better container, he'd still be better than 99%, even if it could at least be a fight at that point.
Being a Grand Servant just makes it where it can't be a fight.
>needing a patch
Jesus is beyond the system, he's a divine spirit. Only way he can be summoned is if he wants to be summoned, summons himself basically, which probably won't happen since he promised that next time he comes down to Earth, he's bringing the apocalypse with him.
His only class is Saver
>I don't get all the hate for Sakura
Even Nasu hates her.
I still can't know if he hated her before the route and made her explicitly an obnoxious character as he was testing the whole "new" kind of heroine or if he genuinely wrote her as a drama queen and then regret it and started hating her.
>inb4 source : Nasu wrote Carnival and Sakura is clearly described as an obnoxious bitch in it
Why do I love Shinji so much? It's pretty simple when I think about it. Shinji isn't just the best character in the series, he might just be the greatest character of all time. Just imaging him walking through Fuyuki, all the ladies swoon at his very scent. They know how he smells, the essence of his smell is sold under the the name of "Matou Orgasm." The very nature of Shinji is mystery. could he be playing a deeper game than even his creator realizes? The answer is yes, he has transcended such boundaries as the written world, and has free will to do whatever he sees fit. However, Shinji is filled with such guile, such arcane craft that he does not even use these powers. Why, you might ask? You will never know, for the mind of the Shinji is not one that is easily penetrated. Shinji is such a force of nature in his realm that nothing can truly touch him, the only thing keeping him bound to the page at all is his will to exist within the preordained boundaries of his world. Shinji is not only beyond the comprehension of us, he exists within a plane of true focus and beauty. Observe his playful smile, his gourgeous and rippling biceps, his gallant nose, and most importantly, his eyes. His eyes, like pools of sapphire, provide the only glimpse into the true machinations of Shinji. Do not stare into them. Many good men have gone mad in the attempt. Shinji is not just a character, a formless collection of words and images, he is himself is the binding that holds the saga together. Without Shinji, the entire Fate series as we know them crumbles.
These are just of a few of the reasons why I like Shinji so much.
Raw power is irrelevant; while Rin is one of the most powerful Masters, its what she does with or without her power that makes her a best. Granted, I don't know anything about Lorelei, but stronger != better necessarily.
>Even Nasu hates her
>>inb4 source : Nasu wrote Carnival and Sakura is clearly described as an obnoxious bitch in it
Nasu didn't write Carnival phantasm nor is she described as obnoxious in it.
1. Illya is the angel you can never reach
2. Rin was a best ever since tsundere
3. kirei is a badass just for being able to confront a servant like nothing
4. Die you !"## a shit
5. my heart become ice the moment gil kun did his thing in unlimited. it will never be warmed never
also played it recently
This scene is pure emotional destruction.
How does this NOT fuck someone up?
There is only one right answer.
That scene was painful, but that's nothing compared to pic related, I was bawling my fucking eyes out
Least you have the manga entirely about her, centered around new special new Tamamo route
That no one wants to translate, because there aren't any big enough Tamamo fans out there.
I know people like to hate on Shinji and all that, but if you really think about it, he's not a bad person. He and Shirou were genuine friends, even eachother's only male friends (Issei only used Shirou like a tool), before they were torn apart by magic and the archery club. Shirou never really came to hate Shinji. And you can't really take a tsundere like Shinji's words at face value. If you consider that Shirou was a beter friend to Shinji that Shinji was to Shirou, imagine how hard it must have been for Shinji to go against Shirou.
Shinji is a prideful guy, so he obviously can't bring himself to do things that would damage that pride. That's just his personality, it doesn't make him a bad person. He says things he doesn't mean and does things he will regret. The plot of FSN is built to give Shinji a hard time, particularly by making him Shirou's enemy, probably the thing he wanted least.
Remember that Shinji initially wanted to work with Shirou, but the game doesn't even give you the option to consider it. He wanted to ally with him because he was his friend, if he only cared about winning he would have gone to Sakura. The game wants to give Shinji a hard time and turn him into a villain. Think of him like Harvey Dent from The Dark Knight, or even Berserker. Berserker is said to be the strongest capable of sweeping the other 6 Servants, but he ends up having one of the lowest kill counts. The game is designed to make the best of us fall so the underdogs like Shirou can rise.
>Need to get a couple of blushing virgins to fuck to literally save their lives? Rolls up her sleeves and gets fluffing.
I've been meaning to ask. How did Rin know how to please a woman? She's had no experience at that sort of thing.
Not him but
> nor is she described as obnoxious in it
She's clearly described as a girl who lets her brother misstreat and rape her so she can complease herself in her soap opera heroine role.
I think I even remember her saying something along the lines of :"ohh, why do I have to suffer so much...? (I got a nice body thought) " after asking Rider to not interfere when her brother "rapes" or abuses her.
Eri really hated Sakura.
>4. Shinji: How the hell is he not immediately killed in any route?
Shinji is best boy.
>4. Shinji: How the hell is he not immediately killed in any route?
To serve as a reminder of what could have been. He's an innately more interesting character than Shirou, he find himself in a more interesting situation and if anything he has even greater obstacles to overcome. Nasu made a mistake by writing the story centered around the autistic sword fetishist instead of writing it with Shinji as the protagonist.
Shinji is unironically one of my favorite characters.
I really liked Rider; she's probably the least developed servant, but holy shit, look at that beautiful face. And my gosh, her voice is pure sex.
Since she was like, the first servant to bite it in the first two routes, it was all the more enjoyable to see her shine in HF, even if it was in relatively small ways. She can't slug it out with most of the other servants, but she was able to save the day more than once. I feel like she was justly rewarded in the end for having to put up with being so misused in the other routes.
Why is she the best servant out there?
Did we ever get some kind of explanation on this from Nasu? I thought he said something during the UBW anime about him not having God Hand activated before the war started or something.
He was granted apotheosis in his final moments. Only the mortal, human half of him was burned away, but the immortal, divine half of him could not die and was ascended to godhood instead.
Here are some facts:
Rider, Caster, Taiga and double-meidos are far superior to the main heroines.
Illya is a cunt, people just ignore what she does.
Shinji isn't that bad, he's just petty.
>I promise. I'll be your superhero.
HF Shirou best Shirou.
No, she was at her very worst in HF. Edgy cunt who just made things worse for everyone over and over, only to go "oops i fucked up lol" at the very end and expect a little hug to make up for everything.
It also happens to be a terrible adaptation that portrays her completely out of character. It's only amusing as a parody of how ridiculously delusional Sakura haters are regarding her, but that doesn't justify ruining the source material.
>Did we ever get some kind of explanation on this from Nasu?
There are plenty of magical animals in Einzebern forest, which is how Archer survived its noted.
Its said Herc didn't have godhand turned on at the time, so that he wouldn't kill Ilya.
And also Godhand doesn't exactly protect against every little thing, more like it just makes it so that thing can't kill him, perhaps.
Pick one, because one was maybe right, I forget.