Liberty stands for freedom
Oh hail the flag that set us free
standing righteous symbolic of
strength our hopes for freedom to be.
My friends reunite hand in hand
Oh hail! Liberty bell!
True freedom for all men.
Is it just me or does the democratic side has more screw-up cast than the imperials? Most of the imperial shitters were either the nobility that were BTFO or Lang. Every high official of the alliance were all minor characters that eventually self destruct from their blind corruption while Yang did what he could to save his own.
Well its the same deal with the Empire, except Reinhard ruthlessly destroys the corrupt old order and places in his new meritocracy, killing everyone in the process.
The point is that one of the prices of democracy is bureaucratic fuck ups like the FPA suffers from constantly. Reinhard solves that in the short term, but even his empire is a generation away from turning into a hereditary system just as bad as the one it replaced without the right leadership.
Oh, and don't forget Bucock
He's only good at saving his own hide at the expense of others. All in all, he's just a lucky opportunist when people give him what he wants at the right moment (Reinhard freely passing out a promotion or the church and KKK supported him in exchange for future cooperation)
I'm perfectly fine with the way the series ended but I can't help but want a future epilogue to see Alexander and Felix in power, perhaps as the new Reinhard and Kircheis or Mittenmyer and Reuntal duo. Reinhard claimed that if Alex wasn't as courageous or a strong leader as his predecessor then there is no reason why he should be in power. I'm sure the new generation will be more optimistic since some of the remaining veterans of the old (Mittenmyer, Hilde, Julian) are alive.
Well that's the point isn't it? All of that is clearly in the future. It's why that last shot is so fucking spine tinglingly perfect. The suggestion of the brutal struggles that will come ahead, just from the way that baby reaches up at the stars.
This guy and Miss Winsor (the woman in the pink suit who appeared at the FPA council), were the scariest guys in the Aliance by far.
This pic is amazing. It reminds me of what Voltaire used to say about fanatics, and why it's useless to try and reason with them.
This guy was my favorite.
SURPRISE IT'S JUST OBERSTEIN YOU SHALLOW PUNKS I BET YOU LIKED HIM BETTER JUST THEN
>Is it just me or does the democratic side has more screw-up cast than the imperials?
It's just you.
In retrospect, there were surprisingly few direct Yang vs. Reinhard confrontations. I expected a bit more before starting watching it.
How will future generations remember Yang?
Reinhard did way, way more. He not only usurped power in his own state and completely reformed it from top to bottom, but went on to conquer the entire of humanity. All Yang ever did was act as a military leader.
>someone posted an image you made
He archived a lot more by playing his cards right but in the end it was mostly his admirals who did most of the work. Yang did almost everything himself.
Reinhard was the figurehead for all that, he selected his staff and they all worked FOR HIM. He was working tirelessly the entire time as well, we just don't see him pushing paper because it's not as exciting as leading space fleets. Reinhard also led a lot of space fleets, but he was never afraid of responsibility, unlike Yang.
So much of the writing is pure literature, how can it be that it was made into an anime?
Now that you mention it, if Yang had some drive to change a bit and got motivated to worked out and not believed his friends would always be able to protect him then it might have ended differently for him.
Reinhard was planning to get into power and so was making a point of being surrounded by skilled people.
Yang's gang were his friends, his teenage boy housewife, and whoever else happened to be around.
Not really, that's only true with Attenborough but even he was a very capable leader. Yang was just as good at seeking out talented officers as Reinhard, and equally reliant on them.
>tfw you will never join the Yang crew
Speaking of Kircheis, I found the artstyle change a few episodes before
his deatha bit jarring.
Not entirely true, Yang had gathered some skilled staff as well, such as Murai, Cazellnu, Schennkopf and Fischer. It's true that they were his friends but he wouldn't have given them important jobs if they weren't capable.
The main difference is that he didn't have many notable sub-commanders, but that's because he employed a much more centralized style of command as opposed to Reinhardt who liked to give the ball to his subordinates to see them run with it. It's an aspect of the tactics vs strategy that was often mentioned.
no it's actually a clever trick. that way you least expect something drastic to happen, because nobody would be irresponsible enough to run out of ink at such a crucial moment, so it would be even more of a shock obviously.
It's more the fact that Yang for the most part was in charge of literally just the Yang Fleet, whereas Reinhard at various times was in command of THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE. Each of the famous admirals Reinhard selected had their own fleets the size of Yang's.
This. The difference between him and, say, Yang or Reinhard is pretty much a perfect illustration of what a Mary Sue is and isn't, though curiously Yang is the self insert, he's a well written enough and well rounded character not to be a Mary Sue.
I think the worst offender is his whole "Yang2.0" after
Yang's demise, all of a sudden, he gets the Yang-ish way of calculating strategical outcomes and the ability to command a god damn fleet as an admiral.
I liked how he strived to ensure peace, "just like yang teitoku would want it", and actually managed to make a pact with Reinhard during the end.
Are humans lives worth sacrificing for a cause, or is no human life worth sacrificing for a cause?
Let's discuss the best character
Despite being a meme as the only black guy on Yang's crew, he was a pretty based character.
A cause is different than a person's pride.
And the word "sacrifice" has a negatie connotation to it.
A lot of times, people join a cause with their lives on the line, because they truly believe that it is a just cause, like how people serving the military generally think they're doing a great work, by protecting their country
Let's not turn this into a /pol/ debate about the military please.
So, yeah, why rob someone a chance of serving a cause, which they williingly would sacrifice their life for.
The answer varies according to the times and what's currently considered the greater good. The former usually is the politically correct answer until too many are dead and the later becomes the politically correct answer. It's a cycle.
The real question isn't "are human lives worth sacrificing", it's how many can we sacrifice for a particular cause (saving souls from hell, democracy, defending one's country, etc) and when should we stop.
>You too Felix?
What did he mean by this?
>so, yeah, why rob someone a chance of serving a cause, which they williingly would sacrifice their life for
How many are there like this ? I don't think most soldiers in the FPA were willing to die for democracy. They were just serving as soldiers out of a sense of duty to their country and just hoped they could get back to their families alive someday. This is the reason Yang was so popular in the military imo. He shared that pov.
What kind of hairstyle was Frederico supposed to have anyway?
Is it supposed to be some sort of female version of a Mullet? First I thought it was just short, kinda curly hair but eventually I noticed the longer hair in the back.
It's time you got taught about the wonders of the 80s.
What a semen demon, sex so good it gave Rubinsky a brain tumor.
>They were just serving as soldiers out of a sense of duty to their country
That was kind of what I was implying too, it doesn't strictly have to be political ideas such as democracy or autocracy, but it can be a willingness to defend your country, a cause which can be fought for by joining your local military
Now I'm really starting to sound like my superior officers during the army
He is like Reinhard and Reuentaul in that they're both ambitious and it leaves an open ended question on if it will be Reinhard or Reuentaul's kid who becomes the next big star in the empire after the series end.
>guy who was like junior lieutenant or whatever gets promoted straight to supreme commander because Yang was his foster father
Yeah no. Iserlohn republic was horrifying case of military dictatorship and nepotism.
>old supreme commander's adopted son promoted into his post without any sort of training or command experience
>old supreme commander's wife made head of state
>old supreme commander revered alongside the founder of their old country
Jesus fucking christ republicans if you want aristocracy and oligarchy just ask.
I honestly thought it was done on purpose to prove this point from earlier in the series as well as in pt. 2 the talk about how Yang could easily be another Rudolf if he wanted to.
The entire arc featuring the Iserlohn republic was a fucking mess. I feel that the anime got a whole lot worse after the FPA collapsed.
Maybe they put him into the post because he was gigantic Yang fanboy and the others weren't viable or willing (Merkatz and Attenborough). Yang's entire fleet was full of shitters avoiding responsibility so they just propped up the fanatic on the throne. Even though it went against every single principle they stood for.
He wasn't just a Yang fanboy, he was his adopted son and apprentice. The choice was symbolic, basically pretending Yang hadn't died. It was also meant to show how quickly an egalitarian system IMMEDIATELY turns into a corrupt hereditary one just like Yang always said.
Shit is everywhere man if you
want to stream it, if not just go to nyaa
>Rubinsky is such a let down.
I think he and the Terraists were a subtle play on the whole secret organization ruling in the background thing, and how really such things can never work as the foundations of their power are built on less than glass. I mean the instant the Terraists got fucked in less than two seconds once the Empire decided get serious with them. Phezzan got pummeled instantly when Reinhard decided to go all in uniting the galaxy.
I don't want to be the spoonfeed guy but I like LOGH enough to spread it so: http://www.nyaa.se/?page=view&tid=608492
I recommend watching the movies first since they're pretty much the same thing but better budget
>Truniht was a traitor
What true democrat isn't?
He was talking about overture and journey, overture should be watched first before the main series since it covers the first few episodes. Journey is the original OVA that's pretty much a standalone so you can watch that whenever
The prequel spans around 48+ episodes which includes the first half golden wings that spans around mostly kirihesis and Reinhardt and the other half focuses on yang (forgot the name of it). Other than that, watch the movies mentioned before and wait for the new adaption which no guarentees to be just as good
But that's kind of the point. You say it's a 'horrifying example", but this is exactly what everyone in the Yang fleet was pressuring Yang to do. Minus 90% of the FPA. He finally did it after being left with no recourse, and he ups and dies. The Iserlohn fortress' objective was a return to democracy, not to be a democratic institution in and of itself. You may find some hypocrisy in this, but they're just following Yang's logic of "an autocracy is better for change than a democracy". And this is a state with a purpose other than just to be, but to spread democracy.
When such a thing is built around a cult of personality , and you remove that figure from the equation, what do you expect to happen?
The way I understood it Julian is going to rebel again in 20 years (nevermind Yang wanted him to not spend his life as a soldier) and Reuenthal's son and the little Kaiser might aid him. Maybe I'm just a pessimist but that's what I got from the ending.
That's the point, they became basically North Korea without the repression, they were irrelevant as fuck except as a symbol, general rebellion in the former Alliance being impossible by them not having a single warship left and Heinessen deliberately made a poor shithole so they didn't turn into a second Phezzan, they even kept Yang's embalmed body on display ffs.
I can follow your logic, a conflict is hinted at in the future and with the Iserlohn fortress as political entity you reckon they would be involved. It's certainly possible, and would be inevitable if the Empire didn't start to constitutionalise.
I think that the more likely conflict would be another Empire civil war, perhaps linked to constitutionalisation. Maybe Reuental's son learns about his rebellion and thinks it's the raddest thing ever. This is all speculation which i don't even believe
But how would your rebellion work if the Kaiser is on the rebelling side?
>The way I understood it Julian is going to rebel again in 20 years
Wasn't the Empire on a way to democracy? Didn't they add a parliament as well as a constitution? Not to mention that Hilda was by no means opposed to democratic ideas.
I wouldn't call this hypcritical, the Yang fleet was always just that, Yang's personal fleet loyal to him above all else. Sure they shared his ideals, but they got swept up in his personality.
It's ironic for sure, it would have been hypocritical had Yang accepted such open worship during his lifetime. And there might by some hypocrisy in that Yang headed an autocratic state despite being a republican. I personally think because he took that path with his own survival in mind that kinda invalidates it.
>But how would your rebellion work if the Kaiser is on the rebelling side?
The actual heir to the throne is hiding somehwere, that shitty little brat that was kidnapped and taken to the Alliance, remember the corpse Lansberg had in his appartment was proven to be just some random kid, 20 years is by no means enough time to root out all Goldenbaum sympathizers, specially embitterned nobles.
forgot about that, with that in mind the show leaves enough loose ends for a war to be a real possibility, especially with Oberstein gone. Maybe his assistant lernd good, but that's not certain.
I think there were promises of a degree of representation and a constitution but Reinhart was wary of that since he thought straight democracy was for cucks. I think Hilda might have been a lot softer in that regard...or easy to manipulate for that matter, it's hinted there were a lot of people in the government who were eagerly awaiting the chance to get more power, not even necessarily trough violence.
If you look at it from another angle they had no way to establish an actual working democracy when the entire population was military staff.
In a way, this was the deepest political nod in the show.
They became an aristocratic republic.
Such was a system of most Greek city states, and some would argue the Roman 7 king (a King in ancient Europe was more of a Tribal leader, while our idea of monarchy came for the mixing of Greek, Persian and Egyptian cultures) period.
They want to preserve the spirit, idea and seed of democracy.
So they take the form of government the cradle of democracy had before the reforms of Solon and Cleisthenes.
Rome too would become a republic, and become an empire in much the same way as the Galactic Empire.
Reminder that Fleet Admiral Paul von Oberstein did absolutely nothing wrong
Imagine a mug, which keeps getting bigger
That mug is the Universe!
The only person in the entire Wenli cabinet I'd trust besides Yang himself is Petty Officer Louis Mashengo.
Literally all the talent in the sea of stars went to the germanic side.
Well he's a totally lovable scumbag. He's dastardly selfish and scummy and he keeps getting away with it. His objective is to get power, and then what? Do nothing, just hold onto power. He's such a mindless parasite I can't help but be charmed by him
Dusty is a good admiral, maybe not Merkatz/Bubcock.Mittermeyer/Reuental tier, but you know maybe he is, we never really get to see. If you're including the petty officer then you can't deny that Poplan and Schenkopf had talent too, in their own professions
Bucock wasn't even a diamond among rocks.
He was at best a patriot who defended the FPAmerican way till the end, even though his final voyage was nothing but martyrdom.
Poplan was a great soldier but had zero administrative acumen, and Schenkopf honed all his skills under in the Empire.
By George's democratic regime, Truniht really was the only supertalent besides Yang.
Dusty always seemed like a mediocre/slightly above average admiral to me, but he was good at conversing with the other characters and bringing out their points of veiw. I would love to read his book when he finally writes it.
How did your outlook change in your different rewatches of the show? For me it was something like:
>Reinhard is so awesome fuck yeah Imperials
>Reuntal is kind of a dick
>Lang is totally an asshole
>I can't wait to see the Earth Cult's true motives
>These battles are kind of boring
>Lang is actually just misunderstood and only turns bad after being embarrassed by Reuntal
>I'm starting to see why people like Yang
>Earth cult is really starting to become a drag
>Fucking Reinhard is such a whiny cunt
>Reuntal is the leader Imperials should've had
>Lang is actually an asshole
>Yang is a total bro, I just wanna drink a beer with him and shoot the shit
>IT'S ANOTHER FUCKING EARTH CULT EPISODE
all you said was people of talent, i brought up people with a talent. Fuck your bullshit, Schenkopf came over as a child, and even if he had honed his skills that talent went to the FPA side, to use your words. Speaking of administrative acumen, Carzellnu was great at that.
When you say something like "literally all talent went to the germanic side" there's gonna be some wholes in that.
Dusty broke records, much like Yang, like he even broke Yang's record as the youngest admiral, or something like that. Also he gets introduced as like the best student of his year, which is worth some merit. He doesn't shine much, because he's generally used when Yang's busy somewhere as a substitute. Fuck that's what i need in the remake, Yang can sacrifice a bit of his bullshit and Dusty gets that spotlight.
First watch was
>I never experienced anything so elegant and spot on about politics in anime or films, I'm really enlighten about how the social structures work.
Second watch was
>SQUARE FORMATION LOLOLOL
>REINHARD IS AUTISTIC AS FUCK JESUS
>JULIAN IS A CLOSET HOMO
>OBERSTEIN DID NOTHING WRONG
>LE MYSTERIOUS DISEASE
What other works or non anime media/books are like logh guys? I feel a void after finishing it, arlsan senki doesnt seem very similar in terms of feel and scope
It's as good as it gets. Everything else is niche trash that's only purpose is to make a profit from suckers.
That's not a certain thing, remember Oberstein has his robo eyes so it's entirely possible that people with shitty eyes get them replaced. Hell, maybe Oberstein just had super shitty eyes and in most cases the shit gets fixed with laser eye surgery. That's entirely speculation though. And i'm not arguing that Rudolf's purges didn't improve the gene pool, I just think you're example is flawed.
Now, how many retarded people did we see in the series. A LOT. Mostly nobles, and the nobles were clearly the most retarded. Like seriously every noble had a more competent assistant/steward whatever who was there to show how retarded the nobles were. So while Rudolf made his "contributions" to the gene pool, his contributions to society were incredibly regressive and proved to be it's own unwinding.
Hey, isn't that Schenkopp's great grandfather?