Let's talk Kizu, it will finally happen
I'd like to go see it in theaters.
But it's only 60 minutes and a camrip will probably be out by then.
But on the other hand it's fucking Kizu.
I keep getting what I think is an error on the Koyomimonogatari calendar when trying to download the Jan 1st item. Anyone able to translate or offer some help?
If it's not horribly inconvenient, then go see it. If you live in the middle of bumfuck nowhere, then my condolences, wait for rips.
Anon, you just gave me the greatest news ever. I didn't know it'd be released in murican theaters till just now. Thank you anon.
Also, I let me know if you find a good theater to see it in. I live in south jersey.
Don't make that mistake silly anon, next you're gonna say that
Nonsense, a frazzled Shinbo with bed-head hair will stumble onto a podium at a SHAFT news conference, with some crumbs of weed noticeably falling out of his tracksuit pockets as he gets up, and will announce that it's been delayed.
Or rather I just can't believe it's actually fucking finally happening and am mired in doubt until I see it with my own eyes. Even then I may suspect it is just a dream.
Someday there will be no more Shinobu, but I can rest easy knowing that day won't be this year.
With the magic of self-assertion you can get all the redditors, MALfags, and hamplanets to shut the fuck up. Plus if you're in a decently populous area you'll almost definitely have someone from /a/ there with you.
I dunno, even if they are dead and long gone, I will still tell people to fuck off to there, because at least in my mind and a lot of /a/'s mind we know exactly what kind of faggots inhabited there, and people like that still exist and stick out like a sore thumb here.
I just went and checked and yep, Gaia still exists. Still looks as awful as ever. I mean I guess I can't fault it for being a safe place for stupid 13 year old weeaboos, but I mean, it is full of 13 year old weeaboos.
Gonna make a quick Owari vol.1 BD comparison with the TV release.
Just finished ep.1 and the only change is 1 half-frame sequence when the decided to add an additional mouth flap to Ougi.
Left BD, right TV.
The rest of the episode is 1:1 every single frame identical copy-paste of the TV release.
The quality is a bit better but it's almost a no change.
Gonna finish episode 2 in about 20-30 minutes.
It looks like the kind of outfit you'd wear on a cozy winter night. So I guess watching TV or playing games or something.
Eating donuts is the fail-safe answer for everything Shinobu though.
Can't stop fapping. Anyway glad we got confirmation of the second part of the movie coming out this year. Wonder if Waza also will be the only LN to come out this year like how Oroka was for last year.
I love Shinobu's shit-eating grin. It's the best.
Yeah it was pretty damn boring.
Got a bit halted in the process.
So I re-checked both episodes again, left BD right TV.
>episode 1 changes
No changes except for a very minor sequence change with a replaced frame.
>episode 2 changes
Replaced first frame in the BD that had a mistake in the TV version.
This whole sequence is changed for obvious reasons.
And that's it, not much huh.
The seizure dim change was the only major change, and that neck mistake change.
But those are the only things so yeah.
It's kind of very little considering there are a quite a few derp faces they could fix.
You meant Kizu Part I, anon-kun.
>tfw Kuzi Part II never
I feel like all the exorcist fights will be in the second part. Ending the first part right before one of the scheduled fights would be a good cliffhanger and there's almost no way the second film won't end as soon as Kiss-Shot reminds Araragi that she eats people.
Katanagatari isn't part of the Monogatari series.
In fact "Monogatari" is treated as the de facto name for the franchise and as a rule everything part of it includes it within their name.
Globalization is a wonderful thing. Plus Aniplex probably realizes they have to move fast otherwise too many potential customers will just watch a camrip and wait for the BDs.
>there are many anons that died/killed themselves believing Kizu will never come out
Do any of the novels give out the names of either the street with the crossing at the start of Bakemono, or the area where Shinobu defeats Hanekawa in Nekomono? I'm just looking for place names.
>tfw have to wait like at least a year and a half for all 3 parts to be out on BD and subbed
It can't be helped.
I am begin watching this series
Should I do so in release order?
>20 minute OVA dedicated to an expanded version of the panty monologue
>yfw the anons in heaven made this happen
I want Ougi to put her sleeves close to my erect dick.
Then, I want her sleeves to slowly descend over my erect manhood so that I can feel her soft, pale hand stroke my dick as I ejaculate all over the insides of her sleeves.
I don't want to see her hands though.
>"That's good to hear, Araragi. I'll keep that in mind. But either way, looking at you from my perspective---you're being naivë."
>"Oops, I meant naïve," Oshino corrected himself.
>Whatta way to misspeak.
Have to tip my hat to the translator here. First brush made me do a double take and furl my brow, thinking, "what the fuck, is that a misprint?" only to be hit with the massive cheese of the joke in the next line.
This is *precisely* the same reaction I had when I read Nisio's shitty pun in Japanese, as well:
廿い / 甘い
Though in Japanese, Araragi's reaction had been to try to pronounce the first one as 「にじゅうい？」.
The dieresis in naivë is on the wrong letter.
廿い is missing a stroke.
It looks like a misprint, but it's just Nisio being a cheeky cunt because he doesn't give a shit.
I've never watched the series. Is it just a giant self insert Twilight anime?
So if I watch this in a non-english speaking country I will et non-english subs?
I've got the same error, I haven't looked much into it but it might be region lock. Messing around with the app got me a couple of notifications of cloud flare blocking my country. Maybe try using a vpn app like tunnelbear or something like that.
There's a similar intentional typo joke in Otori 011 that can translate quite well into English:
mater of sooner or latter
Happy year of the monkey
Yeah I remember that one. They leave a big impression on me because they eject me from my flow to take a moment to have to roll my eyes. I hate Nisio's writing but I also love it.
>implying i wouldn't suck her pitch black feminine penis
Thank you Sleeves Anon
hey /a/utists, was asking myself if this anime/manga/novel?? is worth picking up.
Never was really interessted to look it up, only saw you neckbeards go apeshit about it.
So is this worth it, what is this about ?(without spoilers if possible but dont really care)
thanks for answere
>implying the impending constant monkey posting wont be the best thing ever
It's a show/LN with cute girls, good characters, decent story, good humor, and character development.
It's about a high school kid that is partially a vampire that is constantly bombarded with girls in his town that are being affected by apparitions, and he tries to help them. There is a lot of talking, and decent action from time to time. Also fanservice that generally isn't just there to show you tits and ass. GENERALLY.
If this all sounds good to you, give it a shot.
It's the smug- the magical power that lets her look good in any situation.
Man Shinobu sure is tiny when they remember to scale her properly.
I like her loli form, but her adult design is just too good.
I personally disagree. I don't thing her gap moe really works on her.
She's got the Kiss-shot majesty while being a defanged vampire which could be endearing but it's not.
Now Kiss-shot busting out Araragi sitting on her lap childishly. Now that is the truest gap moe.
either way my dick wins
Wait, people don't like short haired monogatari girls? You guys are gayer than battlestation threads on /g/
Hey anyone know if there was a higher quality or BD version of this kizu PV that aired in 2012?
Also for any production detail or material such as animation doujinshi, storyboard book, genga keyframes of this particular PV.
Now that I watched it all, I can fully say that Ougi was best Owarimonogatari girl.
I want Ougi to control me.
To anyone who read the kizu novel. Do any of these scene in this PV >>135569096
actually occur in the novel?
Wondering if there was TV .TS version of the PV other than the NicoNico rip.
Araragi panicking and running is presumably the scene when he sees Kiss-Shot for the first time, but his head doesn't pop off (and it wasn't in a tunnel, certainly not a brightly lit one, but being much more urban than the book is normal for the anime locations)
Those two versions of Kiss-Shot existed, but not at the same time.
I don't think Episode sat on a couch. I don't think Hanekawa ate a sandwich.
I preordered 3 from different sites.
I cancelled one and had two come in.
I left one in the packaging.
I don't know why I bought two.
Any idea when they'll announce which theaters will show it? -or- who I can call to get it shown in my city?
I've tried looking before, but does anyone know where I can get a list of US theaters that had Rebellion? I think that'd be a good reference for where Kizu might get shown. As far as I know, Rebellion never came to my city, but I'm tempted to travel a ways away to watch Kizu.
>donating to a library
Kizu is years in the making, so here's to hoping.
I'm ultimately looking forward to the soundtrack. Kosaki did Bake and Nise, as well as some other arcs - which were all amazing. Kei has been doing the OSTs for the recent airings, and they're good, but not quite on Kosaki's level.
Kosaki's music is absolutely perfect for setting a mood and it works incredibly well with the series.
guess i'll watch it at home when some rip comes out ;_;
This was the chronological order
2. Nekomonogatari: Kuro
6. Monogatari Series Second Season
Can someone remind me what happened in each one, I don't remember shit except for Owarimonogatari that it ended recently.
Kizu; Araragi meets Kissshot, goes through hell, and in the end, becomes a pseudo vampire/human.
Neko Kuro; Tsubasa meets and internalizes the cat. Araragi and Shinobu manage to placate it after it cuts itself on the sword Araragi swallowed.
Bake; Araragi saves Senjougahara, resolves Mayoi's issues, starts dating Senjou, gets fucked by monkey, resolves the issues with Nadeko - also the second arc with Cat?
Nise; Shinobu speaks. Introduce Kaiki and Karen's ordeal. He finds out Skeehee is immortal. Meets Yotsugi and her keeper... am I missing something?
The next part's kind of a clusterfuck
Araragi and Shinobu play around with alternate timelines, meet adult Hachikuji after going back in time and saving her. They resolve their ordeal
in one of the best arcs of the entire series, but the anime does it no justiceand return to the original timeline.
Araragi is back with Shinobu, he's heading home. Mayoi is looking for Araragi, runs into Tsubasa when they run into the tiger. Mayoi finds Araragi, Tsubasa's house burns, and then RRRG and snail get assaulted by the darkness.
This is when Araragi is basically wandering around with the lolis, while Tsubasa is trying to not die by fire. Darkness attacks again, RRRG and Shinobu get separated, Cat meets Shinobu at the RRRG residence. The ordeal with Shinobu's first partner happens, and now fully equipped, they go and save Cat.
Seems right. Only watched the anime but from what I can remember Araragi saves the day with his magical sword when he goes missing. Same time as the cat sets fire to everything.
I guess he helps resolve the issues with Senjou and saves Nadeko. Close enough.
After that is the Ougi bits? I don't recall whether or not Shinobu was with Araragi during the Ougi bits with the room with no exit and the ordeal with Sodachi. But the bit where Araragi and Hanekawa visit Sodachi's place had to have been post Tiger arc, so I guess he had Shinobu with him.
After that, Snake goes crazy, and becomes a god. Araragi tells Ougi about what happened with Mayoi, and then Senjou gets Kaiki involved with the Snakegod incident.
As a result of constantly going near-vamp and getting fucked by snake, Araragi takes that shower with Skeehee and realizes he has no reflection. Queue Tsukimono. Gets with Doll, does that whole ordeal. Doll starts living at Araragi house.
Stuff that hasn't been animated yet goes here Mayoi Hell, RRRG dies, etc. Then you also have the mirror world bit, I think
And I'm pretty sure it ends on Hanamonogatari. Monkey gets gay with a ghost.
I heard rumors about a phone app that's to stream the movie after it airs this Friday. I heard rumors that people will try to rip the stream and upload.
How shattered should my hopes be?
>Kizu is coming to theaters in the US
HOLY SHIT WHY DIDNT I HEAR ABOUT THIS
IS THERE A THEATER LIST SOMEWHERE
You beefags are a rarity
I'm happy to see other beefags though, I love Karen!
Sodachi was introduced too late, when the series hype is already slowing down. No C89 monogatari doujin so far at all.
At least she is getting better treatment from artists than Numachi.
This doesn't look promising but I'd take anything.
I just hope this one gets scanned
The plot seem to be that she needs to go to bathroom but she already had prohibited everyone from leaving the room during the class trial. It probably doesn't have sex.
Ougi also had a late proper introduction, but it might also be that there wasn't enough time since the end of Owari to have doujin ready before C89, and many already had their plans at that point which included the established characters,
Late to the party but that's quite good. I haven't read the new official translation yet, though my copy arrived the other day, maybe I'll dive in this afternoon.
When I read Nisio's original 廿い I paused for a second and went "Hatachii? What?" took me a second to get that he was just being a giant cornball shithead.
You mean non sexual loli unseen parts pummeling? Or maybe
he rapes her when he comes back at Fiasco because she remembers him of his dead ex-wife?
Why do you assume that doujins will stick to canon events? They can't even stay in-character 90% of the time.
She had a hint of them in some shots from an arc before the Tokyo Ordinance.
It's within the strike zone, Nipplemod. Calm yourself. Spoilered and from an aired anime, (BD but still.) Hiro said it's fine, don't bother him about it.
>implying either of those things
She's correctly rated
Not sure about the TV version, but I don't see why it wouldn't have been allowed. It's not detailed at all, just a suggestive bump, and it aired before the Tokyo Metropolitan Ordinance which cracked down on drawn nudity of underage (appearing) characters. Drawn nipples air on late night anime fairly regularly. Look at stuff like Valkyrie Drive Mermaid last season for example. Before the ordinance the fact that it was on a loli character would have made no difference Jap law wise, so all things considered it would have been relatively tame.
Elementary schoolers are just the best.
Tsukihi comes so fucking close. If I could rank them together I would but I just think Karen is better. Slightly better, but better. By slightly I'm talking about tenths of thousandths better
>In all honesty all girls are best girls except for cat.
Go die in a fire.
they have a plenty of "conversations" together when RRG isn't around
Is it even worthwhile for me to bother getting into this series at this point? I'd probably have a quicker time finally getting around to picking up and finishing LoGH than getting caught up on however many series of Monogatari. Can you skip some of the seasons by reading their LNs instead?
You're not allowed to do that. Now clear about 70 GB for this fat bitch.
Nips are too busy making araragi harem doujins and kaiki NTR doujins to bother.
If I'm late to the party and want to get into the series, is it absolutely necessary to start with the original? I only ask because from what I understand the story isn't particularly consistent from series to series.
As people have said in this very thread in answer to similar questions, you shouldn't skip anything. Start with Bakemonogatari. If you like it, you will like the whole series and will not want to skip anything. You'll be sad once you are all caught up and there is nothing more to watch. If you don't like it once you finish season 1, the whole series is just not for you.
I don't want to stir anything up in this thread, so this response is just for >>135591956
I thought that Hanekawa was the best match for araragi. She cared for him, offered alot of support, was good looking and he was infatuated with her.
>Dat territory marking scene
Senju was actually a bitch pretty much the whole time to araragi.
I don't know what shinobu's deal is but it would have been better if she got back with the first. Araragi continues to toss away any chance at being a human or separate for shinobu. He should probably man up and form a relationship with her instead of tagging senju into a 3 way. Which isnt really fair to her as shino will be privy to all their most personal encounters.
Araragi offers Hanekawa basically nothing, and Hanekawa is pretty much just being nice to him. Remember that her emotional state is far from normal for most of the series, too.
I think Hanekawa's path is probably that of becoming an oddity expert/exorcist like Oshino, Gaen, etc. (I'd love to see that spin-off, by the way.)
No, the series just slows the pace down for significant plot. All the supporting characters carry the show for a while. I was impressed that I cared enough about such characters to watch their arcs.
Kanbaru's basketball game arc was tough to get through tho.
People who haven't read the LNs will never understand Crab's love. Mainly because all the lengthy parapraphs of exposition Araragi gives about how much and why Crab loves him are almost completely cut from the anime.
Not sure what you mean by fanwanking, but there's certainly an overarching plot. Mostly though, the series is structured around clever dialogue and great character development.
It's well known for its fanservice scenes, (especially Nisemonogatari,) but really in the long run it doesn't have nearly as much of that as your average harem or ecchi series, it's just more memorable because it's really well done.
I think the anime does a decent job at displaying it if you're willing to read between the lines a little. Especially during dialogue between the two. If not, things will get posted on /a/ anyway so people can have it a spelled out to them.
Agreed, and I also just don't think Araragi is at all the one to solve her problems.
The last thing she needs is another situation where she's forced again into being the emotional rock and having people rely on her for stability, stuff like that is what fucked her up in the first place.
She needs somebody she can actually let her guard down with, who can provide some stability of their own and make her feel safe and secure, and Koyomi is the absolute last person to do that. Remember that he was pretty damn broken at the start of the series as well, and has really only gotten where he is now by being propped up by the two very dominant women in his life.
Some anon posted some spoilers for Sodachi Fiasco, Suruga Bonehead and Tsukihi Undo a while ago.
I'm more bothered by the fact that he never bothered addressing the biggest issue in the series which is the Araragi/Crab/Bat dynamic. Not a single dialogue between Crab and Bat in 20 books.
It's been addressed a lot indirectly. The point is it can't be addressed directly. They are two sides that cannot be reconciled. Most of nise was about this. Araragi was supposed to make a choice but he always chooses neither and makes everyone unhappy. But they are happy anyway.
Cause it brings up the awkward question of how either girl feels about the situation. Both would destroy the world because of a loss of araragi.
Plus there is the issue of how long Araragi is going to live.
How can you actually think this?
>verbally shat on by basically everyone constantly
>no one understands her
>takes matters into her own hands
>becomes a fucking god
>wrecks shit for a bit
>objectively the most kawaii
How can you possibly say she's worst
Somebody more familiar with 2ch culture can probably elaborate on this, but the first two characters "kita" mean "it came!", and it's used as an expression of excitement over the "arrival" of something notable or surprising.
>blames everyone else for them
She's correct to do so. Whenever she tries to explain herself people just talk over her and ramble on about how she's cute and has no personality, which is shown to be untrue. Her arc actually made me dislike the rest of the cast more than any other for that reason, they all just seemed like cunts.
>everyone seems like cunts from snake's point of view
wow I wonder why
She doesn't ever try to explain shit. She's the one who mumbles excuses and acts shy so people will forgive her and then blames them for everything behind their backs
she's a shit
>She doesn't ever try to explain shit
There are multiple instances where she attempts to and is either misunderstood or straight up ignored. Beyond that you can't blame someone for having being shy/ having anxiety issues and a borderline personality disorder. No matter how you spin it it's 100% everyone else's fault for how shit turned out.
She's not fucking shy though, she just can't be bothered to deal with people. That's why she grew out her bangs. So she could hide her face and how little of a fuck she gives about whatever people say to her so she can pretend to be shy.
She never tries to explain shit because she has no explanation.
There is no misunderstanding. Just like being elected class rep. She said nothing about not wanting to do it and then ignored all her responsibilities as one. She never once said "No I can't do that" to the teacher. How the fuck is it his fault if he expects it to be done?
>No matter how you spin it it's 100% everyone else's fault for how shit turned out.
snakefag delusion still reigns supreme I see.
Not him but that's probably not the writer's intent in the same story in which abuse victims need to learn to just deal with it and move on.
>She never once said "No I can't do that"
Why do you think that is? Because she can't be bothered? Of course not. If that was the case she'd have just straight up said no. I don't think you quite understand her progression as a character. The reason she seems to "not give a fuck" is because she's so resigned to how her shyness/lack of backbone has manifested itself that it's become depressingly predictable to her. Just because she's aware of her performance with the bangs and shit doesn't change the root of the issue.
I'm not saying she isn't messed up in the head, because she most certainly is, but like I said you don't blame a person with mental issues for reacting irrationally to scorn and apathy.
I meant Nisio believes everyone is, at least partially, responsible for their own fate. "100% everyone else's fault" is not really compatible with that.
How the fuck is that anything but her fault?
This shit is not just a defence mechanism. She abuses it.
Like when she told Araragi that she doesn't bother doing her homework in the LNs. She just hangs her head and acts shy and all is forgiven. She uses her cuteness like a crutch avoiding all responsibility.
Just because she's able to occassionally profit from it in extremely trivial ways doesn't change anything. That's like saying a war veteran with no legs is a cunt for trying to get disability benefit or whatever. I think he'd still rather have legs.
I think you're missing the point here. Not only are you taking the quote out of context, you are taking the quote out of the series and applying it to 3D which is PD.
The scene was meant tie up both arcs together and give the message for people that are stuck in the past and couldn't confront it. This is about people that did have some control in life and choose to discard it. Owari deals with the consequences of those ignored problems.
Again, you're blaming her for having a certain personality. I really hate to say victim blaming especially seeing as the premise of the arc is partially about not playing the victim, but there were still pretty strong aspects of that. The thing is she wasn't even a victim of the thing with kaiki and the snake, more the mental problems she's always had. People kept acting like she was that way from the abberation shit when in reality it was a lot more deep seated than that.
Anon there are no victims in monogatari because victims are powerless. Monogatari deals with people's inner problems and only you have the power to change that about yourself.
Snake choose to play the victim in order to not do anything about her problems. It's as simple as that, everything else is just excuses.
I really can't wait for
Mayoi's return from hell.
But she was powerless in a sense anon, powerless to how people reacted to her. Look at that scene with Shinobu where she tried to explain herself after a verbal buttraping and got totally shut down and ignored segwayed into more abuse.
Everyone is powerless in how people react to them. All you can change is yourself. She was avoiding doing that.
What the hell was there even to explain? Bat read her like an open book.
Mayoi is a bad ass
If they fought back successfully they would not be a victim would they? Being a victim absolves you of responsibility as it becomes not your fault. If you had the power to change the outcome and you choose not to use it then you're not a victim. You are only one if you were powerless.
Thanks for your answers.
I'm pretty fixated on the character design presented there. And it seems evident that the character design underwent more changes before the Official Kizumonogatari Iron blood trailer out.
Most notable Shinobu and Episode. Also anyone who or why there is apparently two Shinobu liked characters in one the frames. Don't have to say anything if it's spoiler related, thanks.
I'm on Shinobu Time episode 4 and I want to hug snail so much right now
Tell me she doesn't have disappear! Can't she just make Kaiki get lost forever?
Imma spoil her entire arc for you.
She was supposed to leave to the afterlife, but since she enjoys her time with Aragagi so much, she doesn't leave. Therefore this causes a mass of darkness to chase after her, it corrects monsters that stray from their role. So in the end, she has tearful goodbye and leaves for the afterlife
In the last arcs of this series, Aragagi winds up in hell and finds her there. This was all some Gaen ruse, so he's pulled out. But he takes her with him. In the end, she eats the god scroll and becomes the new goddess of the town. Happily patrolling for any oddities and pretty much fixing everything.
Pretty satisfying conclusion.
sorry, I got my events mixed up. I meant the fight in Bakemono, pic related.
Already tried Tunnelbear and a few other Japan VPNs and got same error still.
You can use a VPN to create a Japanese Google account and access their Google Play store.
I self-insert as monkey and vigorously masturbate to all the characters.
Including Araragi. Especially Araragi.
Guys, I wanna see the Senjougahara arc in Monogatari Second Season but I don't want to go through the Sengoku and Kanbaru arc first (I'll watch them later)
Can I skip from Snail to Crab arc without running into spoilers?
>but it would have been better if she got back with the first
But this wouldn't have made sense character wise, she has a deep connection currently with Araragi and doesn't care for the first in the same way she once did.
Also, Senjougahara and Shinobu recognize eachothers relationships with Araragi as different and just as legitimate. They both understand how much the other means to him. Senjougahara, from what I remember, even acknowledges that once she dies that he will live out the rest of his life with Shinobu.
I'd be very disappointed if they didn't tbqh.
What's the name of the airport Kaiki departs from (pic related) when he's in Kyoto? Obviously the one he arrives in is Naha Airport.
My best guess would probably be Osaka International.
Seeings as I'm absurdly late to the party here, my only parting shot is I have a greater deal of sympathy for cat in losing the Araragi war.
Other than that, I hope the book did well enough for more to come over?
The chronological order is kinda fuzzy for me, but I could definitely understand more how she won. Helps to rewatch Bake after reading Kizu.
I appreciate crab for getting Araragi to turn around and better himself, but it feels like cat could've accomplished it as much and more.
Cat and Snake did a weird reversal for me. Initially I thought Cat was the most boring character in the world and really wanted to skip everything that involved her. She had a pretty good character arc though, so by the end I even liked her a little bit.
Snake on the other hand I sort of liked from the get go, but despised by the end. There is nothing redeemable about her. A shit girl who creates her own problems out of nothing and blames everyone else for them, then goes crazy and tries to kill everyone. Snake apologists are really the worst.
>I fail to grasp basic storytelling
Anyone who honestly thinks there is "nothing redeemable" about snake has failed at basic comprehensional skills and literally missed the point the author was trying to make, so grats.
There's plenty of extrapolation around the place, this thread included, whereas saying "there is nothing redeemable about her. A shit girl who creates her own problems out of nothing and blames everyone else for them, then goes crazy and tries to kill everyone." is interpreting the arc in the most shallow way possible and taking everything at absolute face value and shows 0 lateral thought.
These are conclusions your butthurt brain is drawing from having your waifu insulted. You don't know what I understood or didn't understand, you just know I found what I saw despicable. If you think there is an objective way to look at a character's motivations and actions, I'm afraid you're the one with shallow interpretations here. If you think a character is relatable or her actions or motivations are excusable because the author intended it, you're just plain wrong.
>You don't know what I understood or didn't understand, you just know I found what I saw despicable
As I said, the fact that you drew those conclusion illustrates pretty well what you did or didn't understand explained or not.
>If you think there is an objective way to look at a character's motivations and actions, I'm afraid you're the one with shallow interpretations here
I never said that, the topic is subjective by nature. I'm saying that your opinion seems extremely elementary.
> If you think a character is relatable or her actions or motivations are excusable because the author intended it, you're just plain wrong.
That's debatable. Seeing as we're talking about fiction I'd say the author's intention is the only true indication of how we're "meant" to feel about the character. If you want to talk about objectivity that's the closest we're ever going to get.
>As I said, the fact that you drew those conclusion illustrates pretty well what you did or didn't understand explained or not.
I feel like I was pretty vague and inflammatory in my original post, I very much doubt you can draw any sensible conclusion from it. What's more, you haven't even tried to explain what you think I've misunderstood or provide an alternative view.
>I never said that, the topic is subjective by nature. I'm saying that your opinion seems extremely elementary.
See, this is what I mean. Are you a snakefag? You must be.
>That's debatable. Seeing as we're talking about fiction I'd say the author's intention is the only true indication of how we're "meant" to feel about the character. If you want to talk about objectivity that's the closest we're ever going to get.
We're not talking about objectivity, isn't that the point? I only made an absolute statement in my first post because that's the only way to start a discussion on this board, but I've been pretty clear about this since then. When we're talking about things like morality, the author's intentions are about as relevant as my opinion. It's the author's job to convince the viewer/reader that his characters' motivations are justified, if that's what he intends. I don't have to agree with him.