So I'm currently watching pic related and this is really great so far. I'm enjoying the set ups, the humor, surreal scenery, very fitting ost and really everything.
Why did you faggots tell me it was bad?
never fucking change /a/
General rule for me is if a thread comes up calling some show shit, look at the discussion. If everyone agrees it's shit and discussion peter's out, then it's bad. If discussion continues for another 200 posts, a la Eva threads for example, then it's probably at least worth checking out.
With Monogatari threads, there's always shit flinging with best girl.
and yeah, it's a fucking good show. One thing that got me is how they managed to interpret the japanese language puns into English, really surprising.
No one on /a/ said it was bad. It's mostly talked about positively.
I disagree, the later seasons are much better, S2 had Cat episode 5 with the opening monologue + traveling scene. There's Shinobu and Ararararagi walking through the beautifully animated field at the end of Mayoi Jiangshi, all of Shinobu Time is amazing, the fake vs real speech in Nise was great, and I even loved the parts of Hana where it was just 2 lesbians talking to each other. There's tons more to look forward to, only thing Bake has going for it is "that" episode.
People hate how it throws fanservice at you and at the same time tries to be intellectual while being really far up its own ass sometimes, saying some obvious thing under its mystic disguise
>all of Shinobu Time is amazing
Christ have mercy.
Generally I do, but can't hurt taking general consensus (with a pinch of salt) into consideration.
There are a lot of legitimately shit anime that don't have discussion surrounding them for good reason. I'm not going to trawl through those ones when I could pick out the generally favoured ones instead.
That's some selective memory you have there.
There's been nonstop Tsuki threads for the past three days.
Probably because some people only see it as a loads of fan service, and at times it gets slow and some arcs are way better than others, the airing order is out of chronological order making some things confusing, and threads about it can easily result in waifu wars.
Other than that, it's very enjoyable. The story is great, the characters are amazing and actually develop and change physically as the story goes on, it manages to have a nice mix of funny and dramatic, it's ridiculously pretty, and there's tons of fan service if you like fan service and it doesn't distract you from the show.
Sorry bro, but practically all of Bake is waaaay better than the rest.
The dialog, the bantering, the characters themselves, their curses and motivations, the soundtrack, the comedy, the atmosphere, fanservice placement, the visuals(excluding animation which is better in sequels).
Only thing that is as good is the last arc of SS and Kaiki, rest is just entertaining at most.
As the series progresses, the shows turns into a harem(as opposite of only Crab that is Arararagi's gf and Snake that gets BTFO), there's more and more random fanservice, characters become parodies of themselves, comedy is just unfunny and dumb, there's less and less surreal art, mystery is completely gone(which is understandable because you already learned a lot about the characters and the world, but still doesn't change the fact).
Not to mention 'gf' and 'BTFO' and 'waaaay'. We used to have posting standards here. Also, please use periods and capitalization anon.
I was mostly talking about the contents of his post though, not the format. If I had to begin anywhere I'd say that
>characters become parodies of themselves
>mystery is completely gone
>less surreal art
gives off the feeling that he only watched Nise and is trying to generalize what he saw to everything else, because they're simply objectively false. The third one doesn't even apply to Nise very well.
OP is back, to settle the rage of some people here, I made a thread about 2-3 days back about how to start watching this since I was interested
and all of the replies I got were just about how below average or just outright waifufon shit it was, with no decent subs and it being too hard to understand for people with no japanese knowledge claiming to anyone who doesn't that he is a hipster
so don't get delusional that it's /a/'s essential now all of a sudden
Depends from thread to thread and when you post it and who sees it.
But the truth is that Bakemonogatari is a top pick for /a/'s 3x3 so it's very much essential even if it has a vocal hating minority.
Funfact I made a thread asking what was so good about the show because I thought everything about it was boring and bland after watching the first 3 episodes a year ago and most people told me I was fucking retarded. There were maybe like 2 people that agreed with me
Here's the lesson, if you say something positive, you'll be hit with negative responses. If you say something negative, you'll be hit with positive responses. /a/ is full of assholes who are looking to start arguments and disagreements.
>Bake is waaaay better than the rest
Doesn't negate that the rest are still pretty damn good.
The reason people used to lurk was to realize that 4chan is steeped and based in contrarianism, if you try to say something is good everyone will say its shit for e-cred. If you say something is shit then only the people who truly like it will notice and say something.
episode 12 10/10
>Second Season 7/10
Neko white 5/10
Didn't watch Hana or tsuki yet
Holy shit, the ranking of shows and arcs is SPOT ON perfect.
Grade A taste, anon.
You've reached the peak. No matter what their opinions on everything else is every single person agrees that Bake 12 is the single greatest episode in the Monogatari series, maybe in all of anime. However that doesn't mean that everything else is bad, far from it. Watch on, anon.
I felt really bad for her when he kept hitting her or treating her like shit.
I nearly fell asleep on Monkey's arc.
I agree with all of this except for Kabuki and Otori. I enjoyed Kabuki quite a bit, I'd give it a 8, and I loathed Otori until the second half of it mostly due to Snake being worst girl and it actually made me take a break from the series for a bit until the rest of Second Season was finished.
I'd give Hana a 6(I like Monkey, but it was slow at times), and Tsuki a 9.
I get that you're a colossal faggot, but I don't understand why you've been trying unironically to join Monogatari threads for months while refusing to watch anything other than Bake.
In my less-than-humble opinion:
Hitagi Crab: 7/10
Mayoi Snail: 9/10
Suruga Monkey: 10/10
Nadeko Snake: 8/10
Tsubasa Cat: 10/10
Karen Bee: 7/10
Tsukihi Phoenix: 6/10
Tsubasa Family: 5/10
Tsubasa Tiger: 6/10
Mayoi Jiangshi: 4/10
Nadeko Medusa: 6/10
Shinobu Time: 5/10
Hitagi End: 8/10
Suruga Devil: 6/10
Tsuki seems like a setup for something bigger, but I still was entertained thoroughly
Wanted to agree with you when you said it's not even the best thing in Bake, but then you fucked up.
Snail arc is the best part in the entire series. There are a lot of arcs that I don't know which I like more, but this one takes the cake by far and wide.
Crab trying her hardest to make Araragi confess is the best and most adorable thing ever. Best part of it is that it requires rewatching to actually know that unless you got spoiled, it's like a completely different(and far better) experience when you know why she's acting that way.
That entire confession scene was also heartwarming and surprising considering how rarely it happens in anime. And her behaviour actually made sense, it didn't feel forced in the slightest(besides that awkward English)
and the dialog between Araragi and Snail is just brilliant like always, I couldn't ask for more.
Also the park was my favorite setting, I remember hoping for more of it and kinda thought it's gonna be an important place. Sadly that didn't happen, oh well.
Episode 12 is a close second.
Don't forget Monkey clever teasing and Crab saving the day. So good
Man I feel like rewatching Bake again now.
CARM DOWN M8 ITS ONLY A LITTUL BIT OF BANTA
It's technically possible, but I doubt you're breaking a pattern I've seen hundreds of times. If you re-watch the series and judge it on what it is with your greater breadth of anime experience than when you first watched it and still think that Tsubasa Cat is the best arc, I will be surprised.
It starts to suck at cat 1
then it gets good again at snake 2
your supposed to take everything /a/ says ironically Anon
I've watched Bakemonogatari about a half-dozen times. Frankly, I wouldn't say that Tsubasa Cat is the best arc because it relies on the rest of Bake to make it great - it is Bake as a whole that I would call the best. I also wouldn't say it's the best arc because I like Suruga Monkey equally, if we're taking them individually.
Snail, Monkey and Cat were the top three in bake but you're really shafting everything after it for no good reason.
The only arcs after bake that actually sucked were kabuki, oni and neko kuro because that mostly went over the first cat arc again. It's not so much that there was nothing of value in it but it retroactively made the first cat arc pointless and the first cat arc was done better.
>However, such a feeling is a luxury. The luxury that it will continue forever... Such a thing does not exist in this world, I should have known that.
>Every story is marked with "The End" at some point
>That's why this is the beginning of the end. About how a human named Araragi Koyomi... About how myself Araragi Koyomi... is going to end and begin.
Because I didn't like the series past Bake. There are notable elements lacking from subsequent works and ones introduced that I do not care for.
I rewatched Nise once because it's a decent comedy.
>for no good reason
You haven't even asked what my reason is.
I don't know what's missing from subsequent arcs other than paper cutouts and stock footage. If anything the next parts have more of what makes Monogatari great, and starts pulling all of the disparate ideas from Bake together and starts to weave them into something coherent.
>I don't know what's missing from subsequent arcs
A coherent theme, consistently applied, that directly relates to the protagonist. Greater audio-visual creativity. A higher degree of self-containment (when you include Kizu with Bake - adaptation never).
>starts to weave them into something coherent
In what aspect is a greater degree of coherence gained?
There were coherent themes in a lot of arcs, especially nise which everyone shits on had themes of justice, strength and righteousness which are now revisited in tsuki with consequences. There was also an overall plot that developed which was missing from bake. Not having one didn't really hurt bake but you can't just go on doing that or you'll end up with nisekoi. Bake was free to just dick around with the characters but the other seasons no longer have that luxury.
>tfw paper dio dies right away
why you gotta introduce interesting characters just to kill them nisio cmon i already went through enough of this shit in katanagatari
Damn, now I'm suddenly imagining Araragi opening every single piece of Origami from that massive pile he was forced to carry and each one opens to read "You were expecting a message but it was I, Tadatsuru"
>implying Yozuru could resist fighting if suddenly a vampire in front of her started saying MUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDA.
The series would have ended there with a resounding ORAAAAA from Yozuru.
>In what aspect is a greater degree of coherence gained?
An actual character arc for Araragi, that explores his reason for rebelling against the core themes of the series, the consequences of him doing so, and how he reconciles with the aforementioned themes. Note that this arc hasn't been finished because Araragi is the MC and the anime isn't over yet.
Additionally, the next parts of the series finish-up all the half-started character arcs that were left lying around in Bake. I personally don't think that barely managing to force Black Hanekawa back into submission without resolving the core issue and then watching Oshino leave is a good conclusion.
Shaft did flounder a bit with 'visual creativity' in Nise. However, starting in Zenmonogatari, they completely surpassed what they did in Bake because their motivation for it went from 'save on animation budget' to 'metaphorically reinforce the mood of the scene and reflect how the characters feel'.
I guess you're right about self-containment. But I'll just have to disagree that it is a positive because I, as well as many others, find that understanding ho events fit into a larger whole is more satisfying than examining a small, self-contained chunk that has a few thing in common with another self-contained chunk.
>you will never play any of the jojo fighting games with yodzuru
I was bored until she freaked out. Her monologues and dialog with the God was boring, and even after she eats the talisman the dialogues were boring. Revealed things and were important to the plot, but were boring to me.
I think Nadeko is a qt, but she is an annoying and shitty character imo, so that doesn't help the arc for me.
Monogatari threads will live on forever on /a/ because Kizu will never come out Which is good because I love monogatari like it seems half of /a/ does.
Now those are some feels the second brain can get behind.
>Those feels when Yozuru's H-material is basically non-existent compared to the plethora of material the other girls have.
>can't stop imagining her twerking/sitting on my dick every time they focus on her pelvic area while she's squatting
that'll do shaft
Bake - story
Nise- great fan service and story
Neko- garbage cat lady
SS- story, fan services
Hana- waifu but boring because only 3 characters
Tsuki- story was to short for the arc but there's some good fan service
>Pic related you either admit she is the best girl or you fucking leave
anon there is a difference between watching it "for the girls" and watching it for "the girls"
She is best girl but think to yourself. Would Kanbaru approve of your negativity you're bringing to the thread?
It's fine to have good taste but don't be a snake. Play it cool
Now that TPB got btfo I have been trying to download each season. I have only found bake, Hana, and tsuki. The rest aren't working, are Spanish subbed, have no sub's, or they only contain the commentary audio. Where can I get the rest of the seasons? I had them in my old PC but that was when I didn't have to go to nyaa.se with 3 seeders
I've watched up to the first episode of back-pack girl and wasn't proven wrong. Not many episodes I know, but ugh.
Yet somehow, I can watch No Game No Life no problem. Taste is a thing made of bullshit.
Fucking chigau anon.
Yeah, man. Kanbaru is a cool chick. We don't want to give her a bad reputation like Nadeko has.
I'll one up you and say the characters aren't colorful enough, since Katanagatari is my favorite series.
Maybe I just don't like that, even if it isn't a generic harem anime like SAO-shit, it's still built up that way. Is there a deeper plot later on than boy meets cursed-girl? I might try picking it up since I'm not exactly excited about this season of anime.
"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."
It can technically be summarized as such, but it deals with more than just superficial aspects of it. For example: Boy tentatively comes to an understanding with the cursed lesbian who is lusting after his girlfriend.
Well bake is the least vibrant out of all of them, they actually turn the saturation up quite a bit in the rest.
As far as it being guy meets girl and solves her spiritual heebie-jeebies most of bake does seem that way as it's the introduction season. Many people loved that about it in hindsight but the rest of the series is not like that and a main plot actually develops though it's hard too see it at first.
I'm pretty sure we hate snake because we understand her. Most of us have been on that road before so we don't buy her excuses. She has unabashedly tried to fuck over everyone with no remorse.
>especially nise which everyone shits on had themes of justice, strength and righteousness
Nise's theme of fakery wasn't as focused and consistent enough in tone for my taste. Some of the speeches were really self-serving and were too shallow for the narrative emphasis given.
>There was also an overall plot that developed which was missing from bake.
Bake didn't need a plotline since it was Koyomi's character that tied it all together.
>you can't just go on doing that or you'll end up with nisekoi
I would argue that the series could have ended with Kizu.
I understand her motivations, and even empathize with them. However, what she turned those motivations into represents some of the worst of what humanity has to offer, and people hate her for that.
>Is there a deeper plot later on than boy meets cursed-girl?
Yes. Bake might feel the most like that out of the series, because it introduces the main cast each in their own arc, but there's a lot more themes underlying the series and Koyomi+Hitagi's relationship doesn't actually get that much screen time (less than I'd like at least).
>An actual character arc for Araragi
He has one in Bake. It doesn't lead to some grandiose turnaround in his personality such that he grows completely out of martyrdom, but he learns what it means to help someone. It was consistent enough and varied enough to be satisfying for me.
>I personally don't think that barely managing to force Black Hanekawa back into submission without resolving the core issue [...] is a good conclusion.
It's a rather bit of a story hook, sure. There are other little danglers too, like the suspicion about Mayoi disappearing or Hitagi's continued growth past "a golf shoe: the natural predator of a rapist", but I didn't view these as begging for a sequel (just gesturing slyly towards one).
>then watching Oshino leave
Oh, this was a perfect set-up for the events in episodes fourteen and fifteen, though. Are you wondering about why he left?
>they completely surpassed what they did in Bake because their motivation for it went from 'save on animation budget' to 'metaphorically reinforce the mood of the scene and reflect how the characters feel'
Yikes, it's hard to express how I disagree, but I very much do. Suffice to say that the sentiment behind "art from adversity" is how I feel about art in Bake. The TV scheduling brought creativity to the visual composition, and the BDs brought polish to some of the uglier moments.
>But I'll just have to disagree that it is a positive because I, as well as many others, find that understanding ho events fit into a larger whole
I think what you should understand is that I don't like the larger whole - that it is unsatisfactory and meanders without conviction. None of the new characters (including the sisters) save Kaiki are particularly engaging. The mystery with Ougi isn't strong enough to captivate me. Bakemonogatari was solid, but for the rest I cannot say the same - thus, it is like chaff.
Bake didn't even give any of the girls any form of resolution (not until season 2 for any of them, none for Kanbaru until Hana), and Bake ends with the town still being fucked up and nothing fixed. Why would you think it's a good ending?
"If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand quantum mechanics."
Honestly though, has anyone tried to follow up on her game? I mean, telling her everything she thinks about herself is right, and everyone hates her and she's a poor thing. I think that would be a great way to drive her mad.
If you don't want there to be any sequels you don't have to watch them but there is no way they could have made more and have it be like bake. I like the way the story went and I'm happy they keep making them.
>Nise's theme of fakery
That was the fake theme anon. It doesn't actually have any real relevance because no answer to, "What is better, a perfect fake or the real thing?" is conclusive nor does it really matter.
>comparing snake's character arc to quantum mechanics
>Bake didn't even give any of the girls any form of resolution
It gave them all some form of resolution. Except Nadeko, but fuck her.
>Bake ends with the town still being fucked up
Where is it stated that their town is "fucked up"?
>there is no way they could have made more and have it be like bake
I never said I expected me to like it as much.
I'm pretty sure he was like that in kizu.
I cry everytime.
I'd go pretty deep into her though, if you know what I mean.
"When you are watching Snake's arc an hour seems like a second. When you sit through Hanamonogatari a second seems like an hour. That's relativity."
Which snake arc?
The first one that even monkey couldn't save from being terrible, the second one who's only redeeming feature is "not as bad as kabuki or oni" or the last one which was carried by based kaiki?
>The first one that even monkey couldn't save from being terrible,
I like tracksuit monkey the best though.
>he learns what it means to help someone
He really doesn't. He relies on Shinobu to scrape through, and fully acknowledges that all he did was buy more time before Black Hanekawa came out again.
>art from adversity
Working around limitations to deliver a product is impressive for sure, but I'm not going to praise it as artistic. Harnessing the unique advantages a medium provides in order to best tell your story is artistic.
>None of the new characters (including the sisters) save Kaiki are particularly engaging.
Most of the new characters act as foils and context for existing ones. Plus, in the anime, Nise is what took Shinobu from plot device to full-fledged character and she is not only an excellent character in her own right, but also plays off of Araragi wonderfully.
>The mystery with Ougi isn't strong enough to captivate me.
Monogatari was never about the plot, even in Bake. It has forever been about the characters, and you seem so enamored with the small glimpse of them that you don't want to explore them any further or see them grow. Again, I really can't understand what you see in Bake that wasn't expanded upon and made better in the later seasons.
Second and third one, of course.
>only redeeming feature is "not as bad as kabuki or oni"
You're kidding right? Pic related.
Snake > Phoenix > Snail > Crab > Bee > Doll > Cat > Monkey
Now hold up, I know what you're thinking:
>Wow, I've never seen such shit taste before
And I'd agree, if it wasn't for that this list is for
Quality of OPs
>thinking one good scene pulled the rest of the arc out from the mess that is nadeko talking to herself.
The only thing worse than HanekawaxAraragi dialogue is NadekoxNadeko dialogue.
And even then you're wrong, cause Phoenix > all.
*the best scene in the season by that point
Not HanekawaxHanekawa dialogue?
>The only thing worse than HanekawaxAraragi dialogue is NadekoxNadeko dialogue.
>He really doesn't.
Well, okay, I said that wrong. He learns what it is to save and be saved. Specifically in Tsubasa Cat, he learns that, even if people can only ultimately save themselves, there is nothing wrong with asking for help.
>Working around limitations to deliver a product is impressive for sure, but I'm not going to praise it as artistic.
I will, when the workarounds are creative.
>Harnessing the unique advantages a medium provides in order to best tell your story is artistic.
And I have failed to see anything particularly unique in the subsequent adaptations.
>Most of the new characters act as foils and context for existing ones.
Kaiki is a character that is both a foil and interesting enough in his own right, so I don't see why the others can't do something similar.
>Plus, in the anime, Nise is what took Shinobu from plot device to full-fledged character
Are you just trying to get me to cry more about Kizu never? Because I am fully prepared to whine and whine.
>you seem so enamored with the small glimpse of them
Why do you think that Bakemonogatari is small? You mean in comparison to the rest of the franchise?
>I really can't understand what you see in Bake that wasn't expanded upon and made better in the later seasons.
Simply expanding upon something is insufficient. NekoKuro is an example of expanding on something and making it actively worse, for example. As for making better, this is the entire crux of our back-and-forth: you think it's better, and I don't.
Sincerily so, yes. Admitedly, the scene you're talking about came to mind, but Nadeko going crazy was just so enjoyable.
>It gave them all some form of resolution. Except Nadeko, but fuck her.
Hitagi is still so mentally fucked she won't fug Koyomi, hasn't come to terms with her past at all, and despite loving each other the two of them are still on last name basis
You seriously bought Hachikuji's obvious "I upgraded ghost ranks!" lie? She hasn't found any peace clearly as she's still hanging around walking aimlessly still
None of Hanekawa's many problems have been resolved in the slightest, only temporarily suppressed and Bake states that openly
Kanbaru wasn't fixed either, and you admit Nadeko had no resolution.
Araragi has had any real development as a character or arc at all for himself, and Bake doesn't even end with him learning enough or being competent enough to believe he handled the town on his own after Oshino left, and Bake doesn't exactly hide the fact that there are still problems in the town Araragi has to face.
In fact, not only Hanekawa's fix was temporary, but every problem was only solved temporarily in Bake and Bake never pretended they were settled for good, from the characters to the town itself.
>and despite loving each other the two of them are still on last name basis
Even 50 episodes later in the second fucking season
Koyokoyo is great. Doesn't Koyokoyo give Hitagi a nickname too later in season 3?
As of the end of Bake? No they haven't, episode 12 she straight tells him she won't. They don't fuck until Nise, after she comes to terms with her past.