Because 3.0 is meta commentary on the negative reaction to 2.0. Asuka fans weren't the only ones angry, but let's just focus on this group since it's related to your question.
Asuka fans after 2.0 reacted very negatively, and was angry that Asuka seemingly gave up and was left in a worse position for shipping. They were also super-angry at Rei and Shinji, wanting them to be punished severely for caring about each other.
What did they want after this? Well, they wanted Shinji to be hated and punished.. Then they wanted Shinji to be distanced from Rei. They wanted Rebuild and the world to be destroyed out of pure anger. They wanted Rei to stop developing and be turned into what Asuka fans routinely call Rei, "an emotionless, soulless doll who only takes orders". They wanted for Asuka to again focus on Shinji and be in a superior shipping position. They wanted Mari out of the way.
3.0 then took these negative and destructive reactions, and made it into a film. Shinji is hated and punished, Rei is out of the story, 3.0 changes Rei by making Rei a clone of Yui and removing Rei from the story. It introduces Rei Q which is an emotionless soulless doll who only takes orders. As a result, Rei is punished and dealt with. The world is destroyed in 3.0, and here we get to the main part of your question:
Asuka is again focused solely on Shinji as a character, even after all these years. Here we get to the commentary bit, Asuka's character mirrors the angry Asuka fans in how they incessantly whined that Shinji didn't save Asuka. Asuka is now herself angry that she wasn't "saved", and Mari who is now a smaller character than even 2.0, backs her up on that.
The commentary is on the ugliness of the arguably ugliest part of the fandom.
>>118391129 Shikinami was actually meaning to do something nice for both Shinji and Rei by accepting to go test the new unit in Rei's place. Also, 3.0 is shit and so is the rebuild, so there's your answer.
You type like a retard but I think i know what you asked.
She piloted unit three in 2.0 out of kindness, she gave the excuse afterward that she didn't care about it at all and would have hated going. but she did it all probably because she also on some level wanted to see shinji happy and share a moment with gendo.
Asuka has always represented, in a narrative sense to Shinji's character, the "other" than Anno tries to tell viewers will hurt you, be hurt by you, and still have a chance to find happiness with. Asuka and Shinji were the final characters in EoE for a reason. If Shinji could attain his ideal and overcome his obstacles, Asuka is the girl he would reach.
Rei is a both representative of the comfort of a mother and a bizarre unnatural abomination. Shinji would be regressing in the narrative by choosing her.
Mari, well if Shinji ends up with Mari I'll really believe Anno just fucking hates his fans and enjoys torturing them.
>>118396870 They kinda toned that part of the Asuka Shinji relationship down in the rebuilds though. Well, Shinji still hurt her a lot, but for the most part Asuka came off as a pretty good Waifu material, even in 3.0 when she was mad pissed 90% of the time.
I guess if rebuild ends up as a sequel to EoE they can just give a lame handwave excuse that all that development happened in the last time loop.
>>118396870 The problem with this approach is that it doesn't make sense, and it dumbs down all of Evangelion to a waifu-spiel. Essentially it has no other real value than saying "choose the director's favorite". Turning the narrative into that makes it just a masturbatory seance by the writer/director.
What's worse is that it is actually contradicting how a viewer absorbs Evangelion, meaning that the narrative will always be ineffective. Of the characters represented in Evangelion, the only character actually capable of hurting the viewer would among the ones you mention, be Rei. This is even more true in the Rebuilds, where the depiction of Rei's character is engineered to hurt and evoke sadness, while Asuka's character on the other hand is surrounded with more comfortable and even otaku-friendly themes.
In the original this is demonstrated by having Asuka feature as the character closest to otaku fandom in terms of archetype, the humouristic and energetic school-girls being the "otaku waifu of choice". Even here Rei remains a character who is since the start saturated with unhappy and hurtful imagery.
Mari is just.... Mari.
However this narrative as you present it, is inherently flawed and not something that works outside waifu wars.
>>118398224 >Lel no, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Rei is the ideal "moe" character, and back in the day she was the fan favourite She was the favorite, but that was the result of a complete paradigm shift. Rei changed the rules and introduced a new standard for characters, Rei not just becoming popular among anime-enthusiasts (otaku), but the mainstream, an influence that shows itself even decades later. This is why the industry tried to copy parts of Rei's character.
They could not copy Asuka, because they had already been making Asuka's for some time. Even Anno copied parts of existing characters directly into Asuka, her entire backstory for instance is a direct copy of the redhead in Nausicaa. You have a theoretical interpretation that doesn't hold up when compared to reality.
At the time these characters were launched, the ideal "moe" character was Asuka. Rei got more popular and so her traits became ingrained in Japanese culture.
In Rebuild, the same is also true for Asuka, she is still the ideal moe character, even moreso than her original. Asuka again capitalizes heavily on the affection the otaku have for tsundere characters, the bread and butter of otaku anime.
As you can tell, as the audience perceives it vs how you present the narrative, there's a contradiction that denies your interpretation. Reality trumps your interpretation.
>>118398726 Anon, this is recorded history. You can't really deny it unless you're also willing to deny people who at the time documented this paradigm shift. It's a fact that Rei's character archetype was virtually non-existent prior to Rei's debut, her archetype not being favored among otaku. The lack of expression and arguably bitter distanced world view was not considered cute or desirable, although this changed after Rei Ayanami.
Rei Ayanami's popularity far exceeded the boundaries of anime circles, and leaked into the mainstream as well.
To call Rei "just" a Yamato Nadeshiko would be showing great ignorance of the term and vastly undercut Rei's character. There have been several "Yamato Nadeshiko's" in anime prior to Rei Ayanami, none of which rose to fame like Rei did.
Among otaku, the favorite characters are notoriously the energetic and spunky ones, even violent ones.
>>118399193 Not exactly, the discussion has just shifted a bit in the latter posts. I've contended his explanation of the interpretation of the narrative by explaining that it does not reflect the reality of the situation.
What the characters are supposed to represent is guesswork, and even if Anno goes out and says what they represent, it does not mean that he is being at the moment truthful or that his work actually successfully carries that representation.
Ultimately, one has to look at the work and the real world and see what it actually is, and not take any one interpretation for granted. When we do that, even in pairs or individually, we see that the real world conflicts with the interpretation, as does the raw perception of the work.
>>118399364 >Aha, like who? Hiroki Azuma. He claims Rei Ayanami was responsible for a paradigm shift. Prior to Rei, lack of expression and a dark, deep nature as well as serious, non-humouristic characters were not popular. They did not reach any audience that accepted it, because the anime audience at the time was more preoccupied with worshiping energetic, humouristically portrayed characters.
>Yeah, she isn't just a Yamato Nadeshiko, but that's her archetype Not quite, she is only a Yamato Nadeshiko insofar she will fight to the death and is reserved, any other quality expected of the ideal japanese woman such as domestic ability does not exist. Rei lives in a pigsty, and does not care one second about being feminine, nor her appearance.
Rei defined her own archetype in the 90's, which was extensively copied.
>Um fuck no, it was always the quit shy ones. Your ignorance is astounding That does not explain the most popular characters of the time, with Rei as the sole exception, being the most popular. Your ignorance anon is not just astounding, it's deliberate dumbing down. You can go check, you know.
>>118399474 Not exactly what I said. I'm saying the intent exists, I'm just appending that intent needs not result in the intent bearing through. This isn't pseudo-intellectual drivel, it's a fact of life. You might intend whatever you want, but accomplishing what your intent implies is another thing. Failures and successes exist when considering intent.
To describe an event or outcome you need to describe the event and outcome, not what was the intention behind it.
>>118399364 Do you NOT know how popular Rei was in the 90's and how much she changed? The entire boom of expressionless characters is credited to her, she opened up an entirely new market - where Robots were once the most sold plastic figure/model kit, character models now trumped that market.
Have a quote from one of the cultural critics of the time:
"In fact, in the late 1990's, characters resembling a close resemblance to Ayanami Rei have been produced and consumed on a massive scale in comics, anime, and novelizations, both in the commercial market and the fanzine market." "The emergence of Ayanami Rei did not influence many authors so much as change the rules of the moe-elements sustaining otaku culture." -Hiroki Azuma
>>118400004 The thing you're missing is that Rei's popularity was unprecedented. There had been previous characters before Rei, but none with her personality, story or character. Her traits, her character type was not popular or even desirable among otaku. Rei changed that.
>>118400113 The central point is outlined in my reply to the poster above, which may/may not be you.
I think there's a point in stating that you don't quite grasp Rei's character. You characterize Rei as "shy", but she is not even remotely close to being shy. Introverted, yes, but not shy. Rei has no shyness to her character, being blunt and has for instance no fear or shame, no shyness about walking around naked in front of other people. This is directly contrary to what a Yamato Nadeshiko should represent for instance. Rei does not quite live up to the ideal, being an uncaring individual towards everyone she meets save for those who give HER attention. Rei is only a Yamato Nadeshiko insofar she fights even if she knows she will die, and as such remains loyal.
But even Rei's loyalty is not absolute, during several points in the series Rei will reject authority and do what she thinks best, most famously rejecting THE paternal authority figure in Evangelion, Gendo. Even rubbing it in that he cannot control her. If anything, Rei is a character that defeats the boundaries of the archetype you impose on her.
I think she does have common points, but only superficial points that she eventually betrays during the course of the series.
This archetype is also one that is outside the anime world. Hiroki Azuma and others at that time make the observation that Rei's archetype when it appeared was a unique thing that ended up changing what was acceptable in anime. It was more than a trend, it was the defeat of a trend.
Rei being Shinji's Anima is but interpretation, while interesting and agreeable it is not wholly representative of the work.
>>118400839 >Um no it was a trend, which is dead now seeing as very little kuudere are present today. Given that some of the most popular characters are in fact even today quite popular, some even getting attention that supercedes the featured main tsundere, Yuki Nagato makes a good counter-example here. A movie as well as an upcoming TV-series I believe, proves that it's not exactly dead.
Secondly the fact that Rei back then, like the cultural critics say, did change what was considered interesting for anime audience is indisputable. It is history, and by denying it you're placing yourself in the awkward position of denying reality. It was the defeat of a trend because the market and authors adopted Rei's character traits as opposed to the popular ones.
There is another point to be made here on Rei's character, and that is that it's popularity has as of yet not been outdone in the same category. Meaning that it was never about the character's superficial traits, it was the totality of the character.
The original post presented more than just an anima-comparison, so unless you're giving up it's not over. It should not be over until you accept what is recorded history, rather than your silly delusions.
>>118401061 >A movie as well as an upcoming TV-series I believe, proves that it's not exactly dead.
That's not happening because of the sex scandal
Your other points are confusing the popularity of NGE with the popularity of Rei. Then constructing somekind of make-belive kuudere bracket and saying Rei is popular because there hasn't been a more popular kuudere. Which is just idiotic.
>>118401293 That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the reasons Rei was popular extended far beyond mere archetype, it was execution and substance. If you merely replicate Rei's archetype, you're not garnering the same attention.
I am not confusing the two, Evangelion is popular, but so are it's individual characters.
I'm not sure why you're so intent on denying recorded history. Are you new to anime and never looked back into the 90's or the associated commentary?
Hideaki Anno himself considers Rei Ayanami's popularity as something that exists on the national scale, that is she is free from the boundaries of the otaku ecosystem, although the character thrives in even there.
The fact is that Rei Ayanami, when she was introduced, was not relying on an existing popular archetype to gain traction. It was because the character was well-developed and was actually a breath of fresh air into the industry it became as influential as it did. Asuka and Misato are better examples of popular anime characters of the era before Rei came along.
As for the TV-series/Yuki Nagato, her popularity superceding Haruhi's is proof enough. The TV-series did not happen because of a sex-scandal, not because there wasn't demand for it.
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