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Why did Shikinami kept crying muh baka shinji...
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Why did Shikinami kept crying muh baka shinji in 3 when she clearly gave up on him by going to pilot Unit 03 and letting Shinji having dinner with Rei alone in Rebuild 2?
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She found out Rei was a clone of his mom.

That and she probably did what she did more for Shinji's sake, so he could spend time with his dad.
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Because 3.0 is meta commentary on the negative reaction to 2.0. Asuka fans weren't the only ones angry, but let's just focus on this group since it's related to your question.

Asuka fans after 2.0 reacted very negatively, and was angry that Asuka seemingly gave up and was left in a worse position for shipping. They were also super-angry at Rei and Shinji, wanting them to be punished severely for caring about each other.

What did they want after this?
Well, they wanted Shinji to be hated and punished..
Then they wanted Shinji to be distanced from Rei.
They wanted Rebuild and the world to be destroyed out of pure anger.
They wanted Rei to stop developing and be turned into what Asuka fans routinely call Rei, "an emotionless, soulless doll who only takes orders".
They wanted for Asuka to again focus on Shinji and be in a superior shipping position.
They wanted Mari out of the way.

3.0 then took these negative and destructive reactions, and made it into a film. Shinji is hated and punished, Rei is out of the story, 3.0 changes Rei by making Rei a clone of Yui and removing Rei from the story. It introduces Rei Q which is an emotionless soulless doll who only takes orders. As a result, Rei is punished and dealt with.
The world is destroyed in 3.0, and here we get to the main part of your question:

Asuka is again focused solely on Shinji as a character, even after all these years. Here we get to the commentary bit, Asuka's character mirrors the angry Asuka fans in how they incessantly whined that Shinji didn't save Asuka. Asuka is now herself angry that she wasn't "saved", and Mari who is now a smaller character than even 2.0, backs her up on that.

The commentary is on the ugliness of the arguably ugliest part of the fandom.
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You could also probably give the excuse that Shinji is like the only male she can have any kind relationship with at this point.

She is forever stuck in the body of a 14 year old, none of the pilot kids seem to be human anymore, Asuka being straight up half angel, and Shinji being... what ever the fuck he is.

Even if guys would be able to over look the whole not human thing, she also has a terrible personality now, super bitchy, complete loner, doesn't care about anyone but her self and Shinji.

So sucks to be her.
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>>118391129
Shikinami was actually meaning to do something nice for both Shinji and Rei by accepting to go test the new unit in Rei's place.
Also, 3.0 is shit and so is the rebuild, so there's your answer.
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Because 2.0 and 3.33 are shitty movies.
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>>118392297
What this anon said.
There's only one other person that has the same flavor of crazy as her.
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>>118392297
She can have a relationship with anyone she pleases, only shipping Asukafags are keeping the character back needing it to be focused on Shinji.

Nothing stopping her from engaging anyone else. Either way, the character is just a waifu who's purpose is now to stay "pure" for the self-insert character, for 14 years.

Shikinami is the Asuka that Asuka fans wanted. Not someone with a deeper character, but someone that could be shipped.
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>>118392297
>she also has a terrible personality now
>now
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>>118392527
Well ya the real reason why curse of eva and contrived plots exist is she has to stay pure because that's what Otaku's and shipper want.

I'm just giving a generic in universe answer.

Fucking time skip was retarded.
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>>118392895
>Otaku's and shipper want.
So you are talking about Evageeks people?
Who want believe than she is the only person who can make Shinji happy?
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>>118395174
Evageeks would fall under the otaku/shipper distinction, yeah. They also fit >>118392048
perfectly.
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>>118395174
People just ship them out of habit since they have been doing it since the original anime, so years and years. Even if Shinji never spoke to Asuka, people would still ship them together.
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>>118395584
"People" being otaku Asuka fans.
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>>118395574
>>118395584
How mad are gonna be Evageeks If in Final Shikinami not want Shinji Dick?.
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>>118395717
Not that mad, as they still ship what they want, it'd be worse if Shinji did not want Asuka's cunt. These are people that will settle for Asuka merely being alive at the end.
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>>118395717
Very.
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>>118395717
It will probably be the other way around, or Shinji fails to protect her again and she dies for real, well until either instrumentality rezs her again, or time loop bullshit activates.

It's probably going to end in an annoying inconclusive way that both lets Asukafags say they won, and everyone else claim otherwise.
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You type like a retard but I think i know what you asked.

She piloted unit three in 2.0 out of kindness, she gave the excuse afterward that she didn't care about it at all and would have hated going. but she did it all probably because she also on some level wanted to see shinji happy and share a moment with gendo.
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>>118392048

>3.0 is a meta commentary on the negative reaction to 2.0

Jesus fuckin Christ
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>>118396286
Doesn't' make it a good film, but it makes sense. It's the only thing the movie accurately reflects.
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>>118391129
>Why did Shikinami kept crying muh baka shinji in 3 when she clearly gave up on him by going to pilot Unit 03 and letting Shinji having dinner with Rei alone in Rebuild 2?
it's pottery
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>>118392048
Never stop being you.
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>>118395174

Asuka has always represented, in a narrative sense to Shinji's character, the "other" than Anno tries to tell viewers will hurt you, be hurt by you, and still have a chance to find happiness with. Asuka and Shinji were the final characters in EoE for a reason. If Shinji could attain his ideal and overcome his obstacles, Asuka is the girl he would reach.

Rei is a both representative of the comfort of a mother and a bizarre unnatural abomination. Shinji would be regressing in the narrative by choosing her.

Mari, well if Shinji ends up with Mari I'll really believe Anno just fucking hates his fans and enjoys torturing them.
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>>118396870
>Mari, well if Shinji ends up with Mari I'll really believe Anno just fucking hates his fans and enjoys torturing them.

I'd see it as proof that people shouldn't resort to to fucked-up relationships simply because the real world happens to be full of pain.
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>>118392048
Never stop being jaded and autistic, Reifag.
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>>118397247
I'd see it as proof Shinji really was a girl all along.
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>>118396870
They kinda toned that part of the Asuka Shinji relationship down in the rebuilds though.
Well, Shinji still hurt her a lot, but for the most part Asuka came off as a pretty good Waifu material, even in 3.0 when she was mad pissed 90% of the time.

I guess if rebuild ends up as a sequel to EoE they can just give a lame handwave excuse that all that development happened in the last time loop.
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>>118391129
Unlike NGE Asuka, she wants to be friends with both Shinji and Rei, and "gives up" precisely because she likes Shinji and wanted him to be happy.
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>>118396870
In Rebuilds Asuka is an unnatural abomination that doesn't age or otherwise have any sort of realistic character.

The narrative is flawed.
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>>118396870
The problem with this approach is that it doesn't make sense, and it dumbs down all of Evangelion to a waifu-spiel. Essentially it has no other real value than saying "choose the director's favorite". Turning the narrative into that makes it just a masturbatory seance by the writer/director.

What's worse is that it is actually contradicting how a viewer absorbs Evangelion, meaning that the narrative will always be ineffective. Of the characters represented in Evangelion, the only character actually capable of hurting the viewer would among the ones you mention, be Rei. This is even more true in the Rebuilds, where the depiction of Rei's character is engineered to hurt and evoke sadness, while Asuka's character on the other hand is surrounded with more comfortable and even otaku-friendly themes.

In the original this is demonstrated by having Asuka feature as the character closest to otaku fandom in terms of archetype, the humouristic and energetic school-girls being the "otaku waifu of choice". Even here Rei remains a character who is since the start saturated with unhappy and hurtful imagery.

Mari is just.... Mari.

However this narrative as you present it, is inherently flawed and not something that works outside waifu wars.
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>>118391129
Because Rei died and it's "chancu" time now
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>>118398061
>Asuka feature as the character closest to otaku fandom in terms of archetype

Lel no, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Rei is the ideal "moe" character, and back in the day she was the fan favourite

And yes Asuka is the other, Rei is the Anima, Kaworu is the Ego ideal and Misato is the mother
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>>118398224
Who's the wildcard?
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>>118398277
Mari.
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>>118391129
Shikinami a shit.
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>>118398306
Then who's the old master that will teach the hero the secrets to achieving victory?
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>>118398224
>Lel no, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Rei is the ideal "moe" character, and back in the day she was the fan favourite
She was the favorite, but that was the result of a complete paradigm shift. Rei changed the rules and introduced a new standard for characters, Rei not just becoming popular among anime-enthusiasts (otaku), but the mainstream, an influence that shows itself even decades later. This is why the industry tried to copy parts of Rei's character.

They could not copy Asuka, because they had already been making Asuka's for some time. Even Anno copied parts of existing characters directly into Asuka, her entire backstory for instance is a direct copy of the redhead in Nausicaa. You have a theoretical interpretation that doesn't hold up when compared to reality.

At the time these characters were launched, the ideal "moe" character was Asuka. Rei got more popular and so her traits became ingrained in Japanese culture.

In Rebuild, the same is also true for Asuka, she is still the ideal moe character, even moreso than her original. Asuka again capitalizes heavily on the affection the otaku have for tsundere characters, the bread and butter of otaku anime.

As you can tell, as the audience perceives it vs how you present the narrative, there's a contradiction that denies your interpretation. Reality trumps your interpretation.
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>>118398501
Cyborg Kaji.
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>>118398540
Alright this checks out.
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>>118398534
>but that was the result of a complete paradigm shift

No it wasn't stop spouting retarded shit you know nothing about. Rei is just a Yamato nadeshiko you dumb fuck.

And she is still the Anima of the show.
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>>118398726
Anon, this is recorded history. You can't really deny it unless you're also willing to deny people who at the time documented this paradigm shift.
It's a fact that Rei's character archetype was virtually non-existent prior to Rei's debut, her archetype not being favored among otaku. The lack of expression and arguably bitter distanced world view was not considered cute or desirable, although this changed after Rei Ayanami.

Rei Ayanami's popularity far exceeded the boundaries of anime circles, and leaked into the mainstream as well.

To call Rei "just" a Yamato Nadeshiko would be showing great ignorance of the term and vastly undercut Rei's character. There have been several "Yamato Nadeshiko's" in anime prior to Rei Ayanami, none of which rose to fame like Rei did.

Among otaku, the favorite characters are notoriously the energetic and spunky ones, even violent ones.
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I feel like you guys are arguing about two separate things.
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>>118399193
Not exactly, the discussion has just shifted a bit in the latter posts. I've contended his explanation of the interpretation of the narrative by explaining that it does not reflect the reality of the situation.

What the characters are supposed to represent is guesswork, and even if Anno goes out and says what they represent, it does not mean that he is being at the moment truthful or that his work actually successfully carries that representation.

Ultimately, one has to look at the work and the real world and see what it actually is, and not take any one interpretation for granted. When we do that, even in pairs or individually, we see that the real world conflicts with the interpretation, as does the raw perception of the work.
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>>118399112
>Anon, this is recorded history.
No this is you being a ignorant retard who doesn't know what he is talking about.

>people who at the time documented this paradigm shift.
Aha, like who?

>It's a fact that Rei's character archetype was virtually non-existent
>To call Rei "just" a Yamato Nadeshiko
Yeah, she isn't just a Yamato Nadeshiko, but that's her archetype

>Among otaku, the favorite characters are notoriously the energetic and spunky ones, even violent ones.
Um fuck no, it was always the quit shy ones. Your ignorance is astounding
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>>118399327
>all this pseudo-intellectual drivel
>since objective truth doesn't exist we can never be sure of true intent therefore I am right and you are wrong
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>>118391129
You can move on without actually getting over someone you like, you know.
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>>118399364
>Aha, like who?
Hiroki Azuma. He claims Rei Ayanami was responsible for a paradigm shift. Prior to Rei, lack of expression and a dark, deep nature as well as serious, non-humouristic characters were not popular. They did not reach any audience that accepted it, because the anime audience at the time was more preoccupied with worshiping energetic, humouristically portrayed characters.

>Yeah, she isn't just a Yamato Nadeshiko, but that's her archetype
Not quite, she is only a Yamato Nadeshiko insofar she will fight to the death and is reserved, any other quality expected of the ideal japanese woman such as domestic ability does not exist. Rei lives in a pigsty, and does not care one second about being feminine, nor her appearance.

Rei defined her own archetype in the 90's, which was extensively copied.

>Um fuck no, it was always the quit shy ones. Your ignorance is astounding
That does not explain the most popular characters of the time, with Rei as the sole exception, being the most popular.
Your ignorance anon is not just astounding, it's deliberate dumbing down. You can go check, you know.

>>118399474
Not exactly what I said. I'm saying the intent exists, I'm just appending that intent needs not result in the intent bearing through. This isn't pseudo-intellectual drivel, it's a fact of life. You might intend whatever you want, but accomplishing what your intent implies is another thing.
Failures and successes exist when considering intent.

To describe an event or outcome you need to describe the event and outcome, not what was the intention behind it.
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>>118399626
You keep droning on some garbage excuses.

Rei is the Anima in NGE, literally and figuratively
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>>118399364
Do you NOT know how popular Rei was in the 90's and how much she changed? The entire boom of expressionless characters is credited to her, she opened up an entirely new market - where Robots were once the most sold plastic figure/model kit, character models now trumped that market.

Have a quote from one of the cultural critics of the time:

"In fact, in the late 1990's, characters resembling a close resemblance to Ayanami Rei have been produced and consumed on a massive scale in comics, anime, and novelizations, both in the commercial market and the fanzine market."
"The emergence of Ayanami Rei did not influence many authors so much as change the rules of the moe-elements sustaining otaku culture."
-Hiroki Azuma
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>>118399839
Refusing to address the central point or even defend your own is essentially admitting that you have no argument but won't give up holding your delusional belief.
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>>118399925
And? Did I ever say she was not popular?

No, but she is part of an archetype that existed before her.
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>>118400004
Cultural critics disagree, and the archetype you refer to is not fitting of Rei.
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>>118399982
What central point? Rei didn't invent shy, introverted girls. She started a trend that's now dead and that's that.

Her being Shinji's Anima is not up for debate since it's shown in the series again and again.
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>>118400004
The thing you're missing is that Rei's popularity was unprecedented. There had been previous characters before Rei, but none with her personality, story or character. Her traits, her character type was not popular or even desirable among otaku. Rei changed that.

>>118400113
The central point is outlined in my reply to the poster above, which may/may not be you.

I think there's a point in stating that you don't quite grasp Rei's character. You characterize Rei as "shy", but she is not even remotely close to being shy. Introverted, yes, but not shy. Rei has no shyness to her character, being blunt and has for instance no fear or shame, no shyness about walking around naked in front of other people. This is directly contrary to what a Yamato Nadeshiko should represent for instance.
Rei does not quite live up to the ideal, being an uncaring individual towards everyone she meets save for those who give HER attention. Rei is only a Yamato Nadeshiko insofar she fights even if she knows she will die, and as such remains loyal.

But even Rei's loyalty is not absolute, during several points in the series Rei will reject authority and do what she thinks best, most famously rejecting THE paternal authority figure in Evangelion, Gendo. Even rubbing it in that he cannot control her.
If anything, Rei is a character that defeats the boundaries of the archetype you impose on her.

I think she does have common points, but only superficial points that she eventually betrays during the course of the series.

This archetype is also one that is outside the anime world. Hiroki Azuma and others at that time make the observation that Rei's archetype when it appeared was a unique thing that ended up changing what was acceptable in anime. It was more than a trend, it was the defeat of a trend.

Rei being Shinji's Anima is but interpretation, while interesting and agreeable it is not wholly representative of the work.
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>>118400664
>It was more than a trend, it was the defeat of a trend.

Um no it was a trend, which is dead now seeing as very little kuudere are present today.

The original post that started it all was saying that Asuka is the other and Rei is the Anima, since you stopped disputing the fact the discussion is over
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3.33 really did a number of Reifriends.
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>>118400842
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>>118400901
>they actually though she would win
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>>118400839
>Um no it was a trend, which is dead now seeing as very little kuudere are present today.
Given that some of the most popular characters are in fact even today quite popular, some even getting attention that supercedes the featured main tsundere, Yuki Nagato makes a good counter-example here. A movie as well as an upcoming TV-series I believe, proves that it's not exactly dead.

Secondly the fact that Rei back then, like the cultural critics say, did change what was considered interesting for anime audience is indisputable. It is history, and by denying it you're placing yourself in the awkward position of denying reality.
It was the defeat of a trend because the market and authors adopted Rei's character traits as opposed to the popular ones.

There is another point to be made here on Rei's character, and that is that it's popularity has as of yet not been outdone in the same category. Meaning that it was never about the character's superficial traits, it was the totality of the character.

The original post presented more than just an anima-comparison, so unless you're giving up it's not over.
It should not be over until you accept what is recorded history, rather than your silly delusions.
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>>118401061
>A movie as well as an upcoming TV-series I believe, proves that it's not exactly dead.

That's not happening because of the sex scandal

Your other points are confusing the popularity of NGE with the popularity of Rei. Then constructing somekind of make-belive kuudere bracket and saying Rei is popular because there hasn't been a more popular kuudere. Which is just idiotic.
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>>118401293
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the reasons Rei was popular extended far beyond mere archetype, it was execution and substance.
If you merely replicate Rei's archetype, you're not garnering the same attention.

I am not confusing the two, Evangelion is popular, but so are it's individual characters.

I'm not sure why you're so intent on denying recorded history. Are you new to anime and never looked back into the 90's or the associated commentary?

Hideaki Anno himself considers Rei Ayanami's popularity as something that exists on the national scale, that is she is free from the boundaries of the otaku ecosystem, although the character thrives in even there.

The fact is that Rei Ayanami, when she was introduced, was not relying on an existing popular archetype to gain traction. It was because the character was well-developed and was actually a breath of fresh air into the industry it became as influential as it did. Asuka and Misato are better examples of popular anime characters of the era before Rei came along.

As for the TV-series/Yuki Nagato, her popularity superceding Haruhi's is proof enough. The TV-series did not happen because of a sex-scandal, not because there wasn't demand for it.
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