there are some pretentious elements to this list, like SPACY being there when lots of other stuff could have taken its place, but overall it makes a pretty good point about how some truly influential, important anime are either subbed yet obscure as hell, or completely unsubbed except for the obnoxious teasing [ARR] episode 1 release on Nyaa (fuckin Gamba)
>>118281808 Star of the Giants seems massively influential and interesting from what I've read, I'd be interested in seeing that too. but as far as old anime goes I'd much rather have subs for Gutsy Frog, Gamba, Tiger Mask and Hajime Ningen Gyators.
>>118281808 I've been saying Jungle Taitei for like 5 threads but OP doesn't seem to care about that one. I think Sazae-san was considered. But that and Doraemon were more about mass appeal than real innovation/quality animation as far as I know.
And there is no hope at all for Sazae-san to ever get a domestic release.
>>118282399 For the most part I like the titles I've seen from that list. But on the other hand hyping some of these old kids shows like RoV, White Serpant, Yamato, Horus, Heidi and Anne is the worst kind of elitism to me.
>>118282738 This. I can't speak for Heidi, Yamato, or Anne yet, but Versailles is incredible (Horus and White Serpent are interesting historically and are decent movies in there own right). If you can't hype it, what can you hype?
>>118283822 I was wondering are you only into Japanese animation? I started branching out into world animation due to independent animation. Some of it like Yuri Norstein, Frederic Back etc is really great. Lotte Reigner is a must watch if you are a fan of noburo ofujis cut out animation and her film the adventures of prince achmed is available on blu ray even.
>>118283582 Pretty much agreed, Anne is my favourite anime and is far more impressive to me than any other animated work in terms of directing, establishing intimacy, characterization and character dynamics, naturalistic pacing, atmosphere, universal themes and subtlety. Granted, I probably prefer 'The Sopranos' in terms of everything listed here but it's a completely different kind of series and medium.
>>118288135 That's wrong. I'm an experienced anime watcher and in general I have noticed little difference in the quality of shows like this and versus seasonal chuuni shit like Shana or Fate. Well, there is one difference, which is that the shows on this list lack a sense of excitement.
Sadly, there seems to be something wrong with the people who prefer this stuff to seasonal "crap." I think it's that they suffer from a sort of "mob mentality" where they tell themselves that they enjoy things that are heralded as "classic" more than they genuinely enjoy it. Look it up, perceived enjoyment being affected by group opinion is a real phenomenon. It affects seasonal stuff too, but not as strongly.
>>118288428 >I'm an experienced anime watcher and in general I have noticed little difference in the quality of shows like this and versus seasonal chuuni shit like Shana or Fate Refer to my post >weird/poor standards Of course the bearer of those standards won't himself notice his failings.
>>118288428 I honestly don't know what you're talking about. Not him, but of the few I watched from that list, most were very exciting. It's much easier to get excited if the show is well written, which is probably the biggest difference between these and Fate. >It affects seasonal stuff too, but not as strongly. >not as strongly Why would bandwagoning not be just as strong for seasonal shows with tons of discussion around them?
>>118288620 What community? There might be 3 people on the internet who care about these shows. There's no community, you'd probably find most people who watched all of this and learned a lot about the history of the medium did so without any significant interaction with others.
I'm just telling you that you don't understand what makes a creative work good, and that is why you don't notice any difference between good and bad. It happened to me with animation when I was just getting into anime. I couldn't notice the difference between an average episode of One Piece and FLCL. That sounds laughable, but it's how it works. You only start realizing and appreciating the nuance when you develop your taste, for which it is not enough to merely watch a lot of stuff.
>>118288428 I think you have it exactly the wrong way round most people who get into this kind of stuff only do so after watching seasonal anime for many years and becoming dissatisfied with the quality. If anything in the western anime community all that is important is what is new and that group reinforcement psychology would feed into that. The majority of anime fans only watch and praise what is hot at the time. They lack a genuine interest in the medium and are instead watching to keep up with the trends fit in and be part of a community.
I have way more fun watching a show like Anne or a film like Gauche than I have with 90% of seasonal stuff. It's not a chore, in fact anime would be a barren wasteland for me if not for the existence of these great shows that motivate me to watch.
>>118288428 >Look it up, perceived enjoyment being affected by group opinion is a real phenomenon. It affects seasonal stuff too, but not as strongly. It affects seasonal stuff much more strongly. That's why a boring piece of shit like Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun can be heralded as a masterpiece, and then forgotten a month later. Just people going with the group.
It doesn't really affect these old classics because you have to go out of your way to see them. You come to /a/ and don't see people talking about them, you see Shirobako, Cross Ange, Akame ga Kill, and other shit, and you want to fit in. Participation and fitting in the community makes those shows enjoyable, even if they're bad. But the old classics have to be evaluated more on their own terms, and you find out they're genuinely great, which is why you might see them in charts like this decades later. They aren't disposable like whatever is popular on /a/ right now.
>>118288946 Because you need to be told to realize that other people are different, that's how this whole discussion started: >>118286591 >I watch anime as chuuni fantasy fulfillment and escapism. If I wanted to learn or think I'd go read a book. Now fuck off. >>118287989 >I watch anime to learn and think, and I manage to do that just fine with "chuuni" and "escapist" anime. Your "mature" anime is unnecessary.
Both these posts assume weird shit that's uncalled for. It's almost like the OP of the thread, except the OP gets a pass because it's obviously written in such a way as to bait replies.
>>118288726 It takes literally a high school diploma to tell the difference that I imagine you are claiming exists between an average One Piece episode and an average FLCL episode. You don't have refined tastes.
Also FLCL is a pile of steaming crap no matter how much content it crams into six episodes and no matter how much technical proficiency in terms of character creation and development it demonstrates. It's 2deep4u artistic masturbation that isn't deep and has characters that have nothing to them aside from "look at how significant and well-developed I am."
>>118288929 It depends on what type of old music we're talking about. I can listen to classical stuff despite only hearing them in my teens and adulthood. I don't think books will ever get old.
I have tried watching old shows but the art just puts me off. I don't expect it to be kawaii uguu like what we're used to, but it makes it hard for me to enjoy it if it doesn't appeal visually. I guess that's a shallow answer.
>>118289069 Depends on what you're watching. Great episodes back then could be just as good as anything today, look up Telecom's Lupin s2/Sherlock Hound episodes or A Pro's episodes for their 70s shows (including the first Lupin)
And there's barely any real difference in quality when it comes to films. Akira still looks more impressive than almost everything made today.
>>118289061 >>I watch anime to learn and think, and I manage to do that just fine with "chuuni" and "escapist" anime. Your "mature" anime is unnecessary. I wrote this with what I thought was an obvious intent to bait replies.
That said, I honestly do find that the best seasonal and/or otakubait shows tend to be better than the shows commonly referred to as "intellectual" or "objectively good" are. Maybe I'm like some next stage of hipster but the shows that get called "objectively good" or "intellectual" tend to seem like cliche art to me.
>>118289176 Yes, there's no real difference in movies and OVAs. Many of my favourite movies are from the 80's. But TV series are really unwatchable for me. I tried to watch 999, Macross, Ashita no Joe and Gundam but it just looks so silly.
>>118289341 You're probably talking about the shows that are called "intellectual" by no-taste plebs. Like Lain or Texhnolyze. Not to say they're bad shows, but if anything their "intellectualness" has nothing to do with what is good about them.
Notice that the only people who seem to care about whether any of these shows in the chart is intellectual or deep are its detractors. Most of the industry anime in there are just great fun or plain inspiring while remaining straightforward.
>>118289073 >and has characters that have nothing to them aside from "look at how significant and well-developed I am." What are you even saying? That the characters having character development and being significant to the show is a bad thing? And FLCL is hardly masturbatory, unless you're talking about how it references Gainax anime like all Gainax anime do. A little bit of silly symbolism and nonsense doesn't make it a "2deep4u artistic masturbation" unless you're frightened of anime that try to be distinct in any way.
>>118289069 They make up for it through style and art quality. Atom has plenty of impressive shots. And 8 Man looks way too good for being aired in the same year as Atom and Tetsujin, the mouths in that show are animated better than TV shows today.
>>118289460 >That the characters having character development and being significant to the show is a bad thing? No, it's a good thing. But every other show I've seen that has significant and developed characters also managed to make me care about them. Or rather, since I care about characters by default, no show with characters as technically well-made as FLCL managed to make me stop caring about them.
>A little bit of silly symbolism and nonsense doesn't make it a "2deep4u artistic masturbation" unless you're frightened of anime that try to be distinct in any way. I don't have a problem with anime that try to be distinct in any way. I don't have a problem with symbolism. I have a problem with the symbolism in FLCL specifically, because it is emblematic of what I dislike about the show: technical competency with nothing else to it.
>>118284226 Started with Sailor Moon in early 90s. Went through different phases of watching animu, complete with disgust and almost dropping it altogether in early 2000s when everything turned to shit with moeharems everywhere and cell animation being kill. Recently bought this.
>>118289433 I am. I am also potentially talking about the list in the OP because it has the gall to claim the anime in it are "essential."
I have seen some of the anime on that list and I have enjoyed most of them but I hate oldshitters who try to hold up old anime as some pillar of quality as much as I hate pseudointellectuals who try to do the same for "intellectual" anime.
I'm not saying any of this applies to you necessarily, by the way.
>>118281098 Some great old shows are missing, but this is a really nice list. Are you the author of that OP? it's great to see that someone aknowledges Galaxy Express 999 as one of the must see anime of the past.
>>118289811 What? FLCL is really warm and humane dude, if you couldn't bring yourself to care the failing is yours, not the show's. You just have to go as far as looking at all the people that were affected emotionally by the show, be it by watching it as a teen on Toonami or by just watching it subbed later on, or whatever.
>>118290028 But the list, by the mere fact of its existence, is implicitly acknowledging that old anime are not better by virtue of being old. If it was doing that, it would just give you a year and say "watch everything from before that"
By cherry-picking only the best (according to the maker's opinion) it is telling you "this stuff is the best from the past. Here it is pre-selected so you don't have to drudge through thousands of mediocre old anime just to find the gems"
The whole essential thing is just to bait replies, otherwise there's no way this thread gets more than 5
>>118290108 >What? FLCL is really warm and humane dude, if you couldn't bring yourself to care the failing is yours, not the show's. You just have to go as far as looking at all the people that were affected emotionally by the show, be it by watching it as a teen on Toonami or by just watching it subbed later on, or whatever. Appeal to popularity, along with the classic "great stuff was conveniently made while I was a kid, would you look at that?"
I've seen plenty of stuff that deals with growing up and FLCL is the worst. The failing is yours.
>>118289811 To be honest, I don't think I'll ever understand your criticisms. How can you say the characters are well-developed, yet also say you can't care about them. Or that the show uses symbolism competently, yet has "nothing else to it". What would make you care about the characters, and what is that "something"? It all seems kind of nebulous and vague, too vague to be asserting that the show's a piece of steaming shit.
>>118290316 Listen bro, if you want your empirically incorrect taste to be anything other than dispensable, you're gonna have to craft more solid arguments than this.
>2deep4u artistic masturbation This means literally nothing >it's not deep this is not an argument. You have to first establish what 'deep' is, how FLCL was trying to 'be deep', how it fails at it, and why that particular failing affects the overall quality of the show >characters have nothing to them aside from being well-developed and significant to the show let me translate this sentence: "the characters were good but I couldn't care about them, this is obviously the show's fault and not mine though"
Do you see how your level of discourse is so pathetically low that it's impossible to take you seriously?
>>118290316 It's hypocritical to call someone out on a logical fallacy yet fall back on what is basically an /a/ fallacy. >I've watched a bunch of better shows than this, but I won't tell you what they are or why they're better It's such a lazy fucking way to lend credibility to your argument.
OP's list is obviously bullshit but everyone owes it to themselves to at least watch all the Oshii-directed stuff on the list, it's all pretty mandatory (except Gosenzosama Banbanzai but it's still good). They're all more or less standalone works, so you can watch Patlabor Movie 2 and UY Movie 2 without watching the rest of those series.
>>118291975 Well, let's see: NGE Cowboy Bebop Sword Art Online. Bleach. Death Note. Soul Calibur. Lost. Star Wars: The Phantom Menace. Breaking Bad. GTA V. Pokemon Soulsilver. Spiderman 2. The attack on titan manga. Thor comics. Deltora Quest (Novels) 50 Shades of Gray. Oxy Clean. Mr. Clean. Deck pro. A nail. Your mailbox.
>>118289406 Try watching Macross again, this time with alcohol. The silliness is what makes the series work, it's not a stops war drama. Though you probably realised that when Hikaru caught a tuna fish in space.
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