It was a very good anime. It's overall compact, succinct, and lucid with its themes, whereas Eva was much more raw, unrefined, and brutal with them, which seems to account for a lot of the franchise wars on /a/.
It's funny. the "universe" is fixed right now, and Homura could have done the exact same thing in applying her universal patch, without being a complete bitch about it. The drama is needless. Not to mention the broken logic behind how she's able to do it to begin with.
>>118267827 >>118267725 Urobuchi not only loves the ending, but he predicted that goons would say exactly what you goons are saying. Watch it a few more times. It's way more intricate and methodical than you care to realize
>>118268025 Why are rebellionfags usually so pretentious with the "I got it and nobody else really understands attitude"? >>118268054 Eh, willing to accept magic is magic if it wasn't predefined with other rules. Which is one of the reasons magic shouldn't be rule-bound to begin with if it's going to be used. >>118268071 >unstable and >You must be at least this evil to rewrite the universe Wouldn't mind this one so much either, if she wasn't shown to be pretty rational, even in her evil lusty haze.
>>118268254 All these "why didn't she just" questions always try to fuck with time. most of the problems in the alternative run into time-based conflicts and instead focusing on a "from now on" kind of wish would clear that up, and just be lacking in everyone getting revived which would have kept the show's tone for a more fitting ending, anyway.
>>118268293 >Eh, willing to accept magic is magic if it wasn't predefined with other rules.
up until this point, all the magic has been pretty well-defined with rules. It's part of what makes the original series so good. I have a feeling that they'll end up explaining exactly what happened at the end of Rebellion in detail somewhere at the beginning of the next film
>>118268293 It's not so much "nobody else really understands attitude" as it is "you didn't understand".
The universe isn't 'fixed', it's implied that there's something critically wrong with Homura's version although we're never told (set up for S2? who knows). Homura is able to rewrite the universe not because 'she's super evil', but because she gained as much karmic destiny as Madoka from her time travel antics which, coupled with her soul gem corruption being love and not despair, allowed her to turn into a super perfect-Cell witch.
>>118268655 Madoka's magic system is extremely axiomatic. If they want to keep it that way consistently, then they're going to offer up some rules that explain the breaking of other rules. I think they'll do that. And you don't know shit about logic. You could call it vague or irrational, but there's no room for logical connectedness when we're talking about the incomplete picture we have of the circumstances.
>>118268743 >because she gained as much karmic destiny as Madoka from her time travel antics Literally wrong. Rewatch the initial explanation about why Madoka specifically got that treatment.
That aside, I used "universe" in quotation marks for a reason. Of course it isn't a properly working universe but for all intents and purposes it works for now. It's a perfectly reasonable stop-gap measure. Additionally, I didn't mean she could rewrite the universe only because she was evil. Look at the context.
I understand the movie well enough. I'm interested in your list of "implications" though, to the true nature of Homura's universe. Though it's flawed, figuring out the exact long-term problem would be nice.
>>118269178 He never said that, Madoka ends up rewriting the laws of physics in itself its fully possible for her to wish for "infinite energy since the beginning of the universe" so that having to become a magical girl in the first place wasn't needed, she and every other magical girl would've lived out a normal without even knowing kyuubey. Her final wish was fucking retarded, but I guess being edgy and bittersweet is what sells these days.
Homura's wish was to be the one to protect Madoka instead of Madoka protecting Homura.
The way the Law of the Cycle functions is that it is Madoka "protecting" every magical girl before they turn into a witch.
Madoka's wish and Homura's wish cause a paradox when Madoka descends to take Homura away because according to Madoka's wish, she must protect Homura, but according to Homura's wish, Madoka must not protect Homura.
The universe likes to just say "fuck it, here, have godlike powers" to anyone who breaks it enough.
>>118269123 Extreme shittaste and/or retardation detected. >Anything by Ume-sensei scores under 9/10 >Music below 8/10; the fitting and atmospheric musical setting that's executed far better than any other shows in its genre scores lower than the character development >Logic as a criterion in a mahou shoujo show. >Evaluating plot twist as if it had one. Homu's exposition in episode 3 and 4 is part of character development How do you even breathe?
>>118269318 Madoka rewrote Kyubey's magical girls/witch system, not laws of physics; hence the Law of Cycles and all that, which only applies to magical girls. Your suggestion is fucking bunk since you're assuming Madoka would be the first to make that wish, or, if Kyubey's kind were able to generate energy at all, they wouldn't have done that long ago to solve the heat death problem. In fact it wouldn't even be a problem to begin with.
Why is it so hard to understand that the magical girls/witch system is something Kyubey's kind established, which is not the laws of physics itself.
>>118268660 >>118268818 The biggest limitation on wishing for infinite energy is accumulated karma, but if each magical girl wished for as much energy as could possibly be granted by their wish, then there would be no need for witches, really. One of the spin-offs also introduced the concept of a type of incubator that directly eats the grief, which qualifies as energy, and also should eliminate the need for witches. Heck, the amount of energy produced by a girl over the period of her lifetime, should rival that of turning into a witch. Especially if they lifted this whole secrecy thing and started working for the government. The incubators had even said that they targeted little girls due to them being emotional, but if they worked with world leaders, they could work towards having all mails and females becoming magical then using a non-grief seed way to extract the despair. This kind of energy gathering should be exponentially faster. Additionally, a magical society of super humans could even advance entropic research and a real solution might come faster, instead of the incubators current method of infinite delaying. Or a magical society could continue the infinite delaying, without the needless amount of death.
>>118269318 >>118269351 That's silly. The lack of specificity in a wish like "infinite energy since the beginning of the universe" could fuck up everything. Even if she wished that the incubators never encountered humanity, like QB said, they'd probably never have advanced technologically.
Madoka's wish was precisely specific enough to end the suffering of magical girls turned witches without destroying all life in the universe or messing up the human race. It turned out pretty fucking perfect when it comes to achieving the goal she had in mind.
>>118269550 I've seen it 25+ times. I can recite the film. I'm just saying that obviously if there's a direct sequel they're going to further explore the nature of Homura's new powers and the rules and conception of Homura's world.
>>118269323 That's simply a shaft visual metaphor. Saying that it must mean the exact same thing as the previous similar metaphor is retarded. Like I said, in the initial explanation, they tell you why Madoka specifically got that treatment, and it can be inferred that Homura did not.
>>118269539 >The lack of specificity QBs have never been lawyer genies. Everyone assumes that they are for whatever reason, but they have always fairly granted wishes as long as it's within your karma points.
>>118270097 That makes sense. The storyline had a habit of introducing a concept in some way before fully utilizing it. At the same time, because that didn't introduce the concept before hand, it's especially hard for me to imagine them backtracking so hard to cover the gaps, since it's not in the typical writing style.
>>118270078 The fundamental problem of the TV series is physics itself. Any direct change to entropy, especially vague ones like that, are going to cause huge sweeping differences.
The reason the show's wish was the way that it is to integrate with the existing universe as we know it.
Heat death isn't just about life, but if that isn't a satisfactory reason, Wraiths are also a method of gathering energy to fulfill the same purpose, just with less cruelty and the paradoxical element that covers the loophole of Madoka being able to make a powerful wish but immediately turning into a witch afterwards.
>>118269702 I haven't read all of your autism fit but >these two scenes who clearly reflect each other and are both used in a discussion about karmic destiny doesn't imply they have the same meaning Are you serious? Yeah, you're probably right, "lol that's just shaft being shafty" is a much more likely explanation. The scene was there just to look cool. Now let's make fun of you some more. >That's simply a shaft visual metaphor >metaphor You mean allegory. And either way you're actually agreeing with what you claim to be disagreeing with. Because saying it's a metaphor means it is a comparison between the two. And what would a comparison between Madoka and Homura be in this context? That's right, a compassion of their power levels.
>>118270186 Well, that's especially rude. I feel like I'm being baited into an argument, but whatever.
The point that I was trying to point out, is that in the initial explanation they say that Madoka specifically got all that karma due to being the "central focus" of each time loop. It "spun around Madoka because she is the reason for everything", using one sub group's translation.
>The exact same visual metaphor they used to represent Madoka's karmic destiny, yes. I see we're ignoring context completely.
You can still assume I'm BTFO though, if your only intent is to argue.
>>118270487 >I haven't read all of your autism fit but It was a pretty sure post, but I won't fault you on it. No, "lol, shaft being shafty" is not what I think. And yes, I definitely screwed up my literary terms.
>>118270660 And who was the one spinning those karmic threads?
Kyubey explicitly says that 'important' people have more magic potential for whatever reason, and this applies to Madoka because she was the damsel in a decade-long time travel story. As such, she has enough power to become a universal concept/law. Now how much karmic juice do you think the tragic hero(ine) in the decade-long time travel story would get? Enough to put a barrier around the universe isn't implausible.
I mean let me humor you and pretend this isn't what happened. What exactly is your own explanation for why Homura could become so powerful?
>>118270606 Are you just talking out of your ass or what? The lower image of Madoka is said while QB is talking about her karmic destiny and why she's so powerful. The upper one with Homura is said while BBQ is talking about how if she gives up for even a second her massive amount is despair will over come her and she'll instantly turn into a witch.
>>118270660 And which context is being ignored exactly? >>118270773 Better explain what you think it is then. And give some good solid reasons to back it up.
>>118270834 You're not even addressing my point right now, about Madoka being the "central focus". To reclarify, there would be no reason to say that Madoka got all the karma because is specifically "spun around" her, if Homura was also involved. The wording of the entire thing is specifically targeted at Madoka, with no nods whatsoever towards Homura.
Talking about why "important people" having high karma would be an entirely different point. In short, can we stay on topic?
>>118271094 >You're not even addressing my point right now, about Madoka being the "central focus" Maybe because we're talking about Homura?
>To reclarify, there would be no reason to say that Madoka got all the karma "Got all the karma"? When is it ever implied that it's split between them? Madoka gaining 10 karma points doesn't mean 10 less karma points for Homura. Since they're both involved it would be more like +10 for both each loop.
>The wording of the entire thing is specifically targeted at Madoka, with no nods whatsoever towards Homura. Because they were talking about Madoka. I don't see your point here. If you're talking about why Kyubey didn't mention that Homura could turn into a giga witch, then it's either because he can only sense magical girl potential or because they didn't finish writing the movie at the same time as they finished the series, and so it was kinda shoe-horned in. In any case, there's no actual contradiction.
>>118271249 What turns you into a witch again? Right, despair. Where does the energy that the Kyuubes are collecting come from? Oh, witches. Both despair and hope are power sources. One is used in Magic girl form e.g. Madoka, and the other is used in witch form e.g. Homura. I'll let you guess which is which.
>>118271247 Oh I just thought of a third reason, and it's because Kyubey gives no shits about Earth and Homura going giga witch would fill his quota, so why would he tell anyone since they would try to stop Homura going witch?
Personally I think it's just that the series wasn't written at the same time as the movie, but the aforementioned reason is probably the most plausible 'in-universe' one.
>>118271500 That's actually why I think it's her wish, because of the timing. She only does it then because that's when she realized she realized she failed to protect Madoka, and changed her objective to protect Madoka from her own sacrifice. Then her wish, which was to redo her meeting with Madoka but in a role of superiority where she could protect her, took effect.
>>118271726 Because deep down, she knew that she had fucked and failed, as evidenced by her witch world. She knew it all along, but she was consciously rejecting and suppressing it until that talk in the field of flowers where she accepted it.
>>118271290 >emotions can create energy and power magic >Love is the most powerful emotion >every time Homura failed her despair and pain increased >Homura realises that the fact she's gone through so much pain for Madoka is proof of her love for Madoka >she uses this love to increase her magical powers to such a high level that she's a God (or a demon actually) That's how I've seen it, but yeah, I thought it was an asspull and I loved the movie
>>118271079 Your first reply to an anon pretty much describes what I mean about different contexts, but, I'd hate to steal your words.
Basically, the first time it was used for Madoka the strings appear to be literal representations of fate, also known as karma. It's set against a clock, which I would presume to be representative of the encompassing various timelines. I believe Madoka herself to be a central idea of Madoka, since the dialogue is referring to Madoka across timelines as a single entity.
Meanwhile, when it's used for Homura, the dialogue is no longer addressing the amount of karma attached to a person. Instead the dialogue is about the hopelessness of her situation. The strings would appeared to more analogous to being trapped, which would make sense due to her repetitive situation. Homura herself could be a direct representation of Homura due to her constantly maintaining her sense of self across all timeline. The clock background would be symbolic of her journey, her plight, connecting to her long journey across various timelines. Ultimately, I feel that the second use of the image, mimicking holds an additional meaning about how she, like Madoka is trapped in a situation, but I do not feel that it must literally be the same situation.
I do believe that the gears in the background could share a meaning across both images on the workings and laws of the universe, but that's something that I feel much more unclear about.
Also, I meant to type "short" and not "sure" in the other post. I was really trying to avoid long-winded posts, because I get pretty poor at communicating my thoughts well after I start rambling, so feel free to ignore the post if it's unclear.
>>118271580 No, she turned into a witch because she loved her pain despair. Despair and love are the same thing to Homura because they both represent what she did for Madoka.
>>118271848 You do understand that screen shot proves they are in the same context, right? The same exact scene can't have two drastically different meaning. You're basically trying to say if we have two apples one is actually an orange.
You are not comparing anything, you are just stating events around the two scenes. There is comparison because they are using the same symbolism. The comparison is between "Madoka's karma" and "Homura despair". That is what's being compared in the two scenes. And the fact that the scenes are identical is what proves their power is similar and from the same source.
>>118271807 Her wish was the same even before Rebellion, she could have used her wish loophole to save Madoka in episode twelve if that really was the case. >>118271903 >she didn't really mean it Care to provide some proof for that other than your speculations based on nothing? She says "I've been waiting a long time for this" as soon as she's about to "save" Madoka. And even more so. If it was about her wishes powers why would she have to turn into a witch to make it happen. Wishes are from Magic Girls, not witches.
>>118272127 >It's a new energy source Just like Madoka was a "new" energy source, right? Wrong. As I just said, to Homura despair is the same as love. Everything involving Madoka is "love". And thus why her power is like that of all witches. Both Homura and Madoka are "concepts" which is why they are not like standard Magic girls or witches.
>>118272183 She probably could have, but the whole point of Rebellion is Homura realizing that she failed and reaffirming her resolve to protect Madoka. Like in Rebellion, she talks about how disrespecting Madoka's sacrifice with the world in the barrier is unforgiveable. That's her mentality up until Rebellion.
>>118271247 >Maybe because we're talking about Homura? To be accurate, we're talking about whether or not the source of Homura's powers is karma from time loops like you proposed, so the subject is time loops in relation to Homura's powers. >When is it ever implied that it's split between them? Again, I'm looking it the wording. It's stressed that Madoka is at the center of it, causing her to acquire the points. If her very reason for accumulating them is by being the focus of each loop, then Homura should not acquire them the same way, by those rules.
Going onto a theoretical tangent, if involvement is all that's necessary, then all the other magical girls would have likely acquired a notable amount of karma too.
>If you're talking about why Kyubey didn't mention that Homura could turn into a giga witch Still, I'm looking at the wording. Madoka is talked about as a unique case. She is this unique case only because she's at the "center" supposedly. >then it's either because he can only sense magical girl potential or because they didn't finish writing the movie at the same time as they finished the series, and so it was kinda shoe-horned in. In any case, there's no actual contradiction. In all fairness you could possibly be right about him only being able to sense potential, but his actual sensing capabilities is a dark area. He is capable of measuring energy though, which could have possibly tipped him off if Homura acquired karma by the same means, but again that's a dark area, since we don't know if there's any conditions attached to when he can gauge energy. Only after it's released? Before? In a certain form? So that is a viable, but also iffy theory. >>118271595 Plausible enough. The only problem I have here is that QB was on the subject, and once clearly asked, he feels no need to omit information. He will omit information initially though, but pretty much, if you don't ask he doesn't tell. If you do ask, he has no problem divulging the complete truth.
>>118272302 >Madoka does not romantically love Homura Get a load of this guy. Even on the astronomically low chance that wasn't true, Madoka is still happiest by Homura's side and would be deeply hurt by not being able to be by her side.
>>118272404 >To be accurate, we're talking about whether or not the source of Homura's powers is karma from time loops like you proposed, so the subject is time loops in relation to Homura's powers. Which is why I mentioned 'important people' having more karmic power and thus magic power. Homura got boosted to 'super important'-tier the same way Madoka did through her actions.
>It's stressed that Madoka is at the center of it, causing her to acquire the points That only means that Madoka was the reason for the whole thing. It's a two person 'hero saves damsel in distress' story. The hero wouldn't be going on a journey to save the damsel if she weren't in distress. You're telling me that Madoka who sits on her ass for a hundred timelines gets god mode but Homura who worked her butt off as the hero gets nothing? Ludicrous.
>then all the other magical girls would have likely acquired a notable amount of karma too. Not at all, it was pretty clear Homura gave no shits about them, and they were very obviously just side characters. Again, it was a two-person story, and so the karmic threads enveloped those two people.
>The only problem I have here is that QB was on the subject, and once clearly asked, he feels no need to omit information. He will omit information initially though, but pretty much, if you don't ask he doesn't tell. If you do ask, he has no problem divulging the complete truth. Right, but nobody asked him about Homura's potential witch status anyway. Even if he did know he probably thought Homura would turn into a world-destroying monster instead of an intelligent master of the universe.
>>118272320 >As I just said, to Homura despair is the same as love. >One emotion is the exact same as another And one key difference here that proves that it's new is the nature of her soul gem.
For all the power Madoka had IIRC she did not get a pimped out soul gem, and strong witches still dropped a grief seed that looked similar to the others with small detail changes. A witch in human form is also completely different from the norm.
>>118272726 >You said her saying she was waiting for this wasn't a sarcastic devilish quip, then brought wishes into it for no reason at all. Okay, so you can't read. Please reread the string of posts and look what you first replied to,
>>118272726 >That doesn't mean despair isn't love. Exactly, thanks for agreeing. The whole point is that Homura despair is a form of love which is why it's still a source for her power. She can have both "love love" and "despair love", that's the point.
>>118272605 You are literally making up this "hero and damsel" and "two-person" scenario. There was never any mention of a "hero and damsel" scenario in canon, and only a mention of Madoka being at the center of a loop. Time was reset for a singular purpose, Madoka which is why she acquired the fate, according to canon. It can be inferred that you don't get fate if you aren't at the very center.
I'm pretty much on board with the deceitful QB idea if the kinks are worked out, though.
In any case, we're mostly going in circles at this point.
But, jesus christ, all in all going in a circle like this makes me think that the larger problem of Madoka is the concept of fate being fixed onto a singular point in time, depending on the outcome of various timelines, and saying the intent of time travel is important.
>>118272960 I wonder what you're English grade was in high school. Anyway, your first reply was to a post about how it was just a sarcastic remark, but the post you quoted was talking about her wish. She'd didn't just randomly say "I've been waiting a long time for this." There was a reason to it. Plus, the point still stands that even if it was just random remark if it was a loophole because of her wish it could have been done at any time.
>>118273096 >You are literally making up this "hero and damsel" and "two-person" scenario. Homura's fucking wish is literally to save Madoka. She then goes through 100 timelines to try achieve this. How is this not a hero and damsel situation? Just because it's not literally spelled out for you, because Homura doesn't literally say "I became a hero for your sake, m'doka my damsel"?
Are you genuinely underage or mentally handicapped?
>>118272960 Baller typo, anon. I'm totally sure that's not what you really meant to say. But wither way. She is not powered just by despair. She is powered by "despairlove" and love. Love is what let her become concept rather than just a normal witch.
>>118273156 >How is this not a hero and damsel situation? I didn't say it wasn't a hero and damsel situation. I said that this was never stated in canon. Since it was never stated in canon in relation to the cause of fate, it can't be taken as a fact that just because someone fits as a "hero" they automatically share in on how the universe reacted to the situation.
I don't even know how to start to address the notion that two characters fitting in to a common literary scenario outright has a result on in-universe rules and effects. I mean, it's like trying to say that because Sayaka provided contrast to Homura she gets negative karma points for each timeline because that's pretending that literary scenarios factor directly into the story. If you're trying to say that she would also get karma because she's deeply involved with the central focus, Madoka, that would be a fine enough argument, be justifying it simply because she fills the role of a hero is retarded. I'm really hoping it's just your wording.
>>118273562 >I didn't say it wasn't a hero and damsel situation. I said that this was never stated in canon. Contradicting yourself in under twenty words. Impressive.
You know what else was never stated in canon? That Sayaka likes hotdogs. But you know what? We can infer as such is canon because we see her eating one. Not explicitly stated does not mean not explicitly canon. And to be clear this only applies when there is supporting evidence. So not literally everything is canon unless stated otherwise.
>>118273562 >I said that this was never stated in canon. And I never said it was. However, that's what the situation is, even if the words "this is a hero and damsel situation" are never explicitly said.
>Since it was never stated in canon in relation to the cause of fate, it can't be taken as a fact that just because someone fits as a "hero" they automatically share in on how the universe reacted to the situation. Pic related, heroes/saviors register as 'important people' and have more karmic destiny than normal people. We even see prominent heroes/revolutionaries at the end of the series being magical girls, implying that they were able to use their karmic destiny power to achieve what they're famous for.
>If you're trying to say that she would also get karma because she's deeply involved with the central focus, Madoka, that would be a fine enough argument I'm saying Homura and Madoka are the main characters of the time travel tale and thus they both gain karmic power per loop. Madoka gains karmic power because she's the reason a 100 timeline story exists. Homura also gains karmic power because she's the reason a 100 timeline story exists, although she'd arguably deserve more because she's the one who put in the effort, and it shows in her being able to control the universe and Madoka.
>>118272546 >Madoka would not miss Homura much if she had to choose her or the world. Madoka can move on from losing a friend. You can say they aren't in love if you want, but you can't say Madoka wouldn't be distraught over losing Homura, the single most important person in her life, in a scenario where she was the one who could have saved her.
>>118273780 >>I didn't say it wasn't a hero and damsel situation. I said that this was never stated in canon. >Contradicting yourself in under twenty words. Impressive. Quote me on where I said that it was not a hero and damsel scenario. The only thing I did say was that You're making up the "hero and damsel" scenario, as in a literary scenario should have no direct effect on canon. Like I said, I hope it's just your wording, and you don't actually think that fulfilling the role of literary term would have a direct effect on canon in-universe events.
But if you want to talk about hot dogs, clearly we're getting nowhere.
>>118273983 >Quote me on where I said that it was not a hero and damsel scenario. Do you understand the word "stated" does not mean "verbally"? It is stated in canon that they are in a "hero and damsel" scenario. Because that's what happening. "Hero and damsel" in this context is an adjective. You're trying to refute something like this. >it's never stated in canon that they're breathing so using the word breathing to describe what they're doing is non-canon You're also talking to multiple people. Do learn to not be so new and refresh the page before you reply.
The fact you think this is about hot dogs is rather sad because the point of that post had nothing to do with hotdogs and everything to do with the concept of canon. It is canon that Sayaka likes hotdogs even though it was never explicitly verbally/explicitly stated.
>>118273818 And now we're back the this "important people" concept. I see why you're pushing the hero and damsel concept now, but if you're saying that Homura got her powers by being an "important person" that would be different from fate from several timelines attaching itself to a singular location.
Acquiring her powers solely through being a hero would be separate from acquiring by having time reset solely for you.
>>118274141 >"important person" that would be different from fate from several timelines attaching itself to a singular location. No it wouldn't because the event that makes her important is timelines converging on her as a result of her actions.
You have a real problem with things having multiple and duel meanings. Madoka is not the series for you.
>>118274141 Madoka didn't become powerful because of one or the other, it was a result of BOTH time travel AND Madoka being the reason for that time travel, i.e. being someone 'important'. Obviously someone who's just important wouldn't be able to achieve god mode, otherwise a past famous female figure would've wished for world peace by now, but it was the time loop which amplified it 100 times over.
I shouldn't have to prepare these recap pictures for you. I think you're the one who needs to rewatch the series.
I guess it's fine if they end this shit on Rebellion.
Madoka is such a passive piece of shit and has literally no moral high ground against Homura to create any genuine conflict. As far as the audience knows Homura made Madoka's wish infinitely better by letting it run on autopilot.
A sequel that took the other direction of Madoka just realizing how wonderful Homura is and how much she's done for her is pointless continued jerking off of Homura's character that is definitely not worth a whole movie or even a new season.
Perfect end to a series that lived off fucking good intentions over. Such shit.
>>118274591 Because surely, neither Homura nor Madoka experienced any emotional activity through the ~100 timelines it took, right? Perhaps a better question you should ask is why did all that time travelling "give" Madoka power?
>>118274633 What's your point? Madoka would've been depressed in every timeline considering she turns magical girl to solve a problem each time, so there goes that 'power of happiness' theory unless you're going to tell me that magical girls run on despair, when it's explicitly shown that despair is bad for magical girls.
>Perhaps a better question you should ask is why did all that time travelling "give" Madoka power? Because it added towards her karmic destiny, and people with high karmic destiny have higher magic potential. This isn't even speculation, it's explicitly explained in the show.
>>118274640 Well, one mystery is solved, that's for sure. That you can't read. Someone already explained how a wish loophole is not valid because then Homura could have saved Madoka at any time. Not just at the end of Rebellion.
Bullshit, Homura's wish only need her strong enough to protect a regular human girl in all the timelines. It doesn't put into account saving Madoka from Walpurgisnacht or any of that other shit, just going back in time and protecting a human girl.
With the universe rewrite Madoka is now only in the universe as the Law of Cycles so for Homura's wish to be fufilled she has to be stronger than the LoC.
>>118275024 Do you even think before you post? Even if you idea was valid it still wouldn't explain why she didn't save Madoka in the time gap between episode twelve and the end of Rebellion. >It doesn't put into account saving Madoka from Walpurgisnacht or any of that other shit Great sources you have there. Are we to assume this is true because "reasons"?
>>118268632 Rebellion sequel won't happen, I thought it's obvious already. More than a year has passed since premier and still no announcement. Direct sequel would be announced very fast, if it was going to happen,
>>118274741 The point I made in my original post was this: "human emotion in general is correlated with energy/power in the Madoka universe" - this, in my opinion, is both in line with the explanation for where Madoka's "karmic destiny" comes from, but also for Homura's vast powers too.
QB originally explained that the main reason teenage girls are chosen to become magical girls is because they experience emotions (not just limited to love/despair) in great quantity, making them the most efficient demographic for gathering energy. If gathering energy (or the amount of potential energy gathered) is correlated with how potent one's emotion is, I argue that the emotions experienced by Homura/Madoka through the timelines is what gave them their power.
That is to say, remnants of the emotions experienced in each timeline remained in both of them. Madoka was the first to use it in her wish, but over time Homura came to the realization that Madoka wasn't happy, etc., and we get Rebellion, where Homura's potential manifests when she becomes what she considers a demon.
An example of this phenomena occurring without it being explicitly stated is when Homura makes her wish in the original timeline. In that timeline, she was introduced to Madoka/Mami at an early stage, and knew of (and could see) QB's existence. QB doesn't offer Homura to become a magical girl until the end of that timeline, when she's grieving Madoka's death. Her grievance showed QB that she had potential to become a magical girl because again, emotions. This isn't QB pestering Homura to become a magical girl either (like he did with Madoka), This was certainly the first time QB made the offer, since he explains a few things to Homura about it (whether she's ready to commit to a life of battle being one), and Homura clarifies if he really can grant any wish.
>>118275540 >QB originally explained that the main reason teenage girls are chosen to become magical girls is because they experience emotions (not just limited to love/despair) in great quantity, making them the most efficient demographic for gathering energy. He chose them because little girls are the most prone to emotional variance (and thus despair), which is the trigger for turning them into witches and thus overcoming entropy to fill the quota. Not because they generate more energy through emotion for whatever reason.
>That is to say, remnants of the emotions experienced in each timeline remained in both of them. There's nothing suggesting this. The only thing we're told about why Madoka had godly potential is karmic destiny represented by threads of time/destiny. We see this same allegory for Homura.
>QB doesn't offer Homura to become a magical girl until the end of that timeline, when she's grieving Madoka's death. We don't know that, we don't see much between the initial meeting and death.
>This was certainly the first time QB made the offer, since he explains a few things to Homura about it (whether she's ready to commit to a life of battle being one), and Homura clarifies if he really can grant any wish. Most likely Kyubey/Homura just reconfirming the facts before establishing a contract. It's ridiculous to assume Homura never once asked Madoka or Mami how they became magical girls and the conditions for it, and that she was completely clueless until that point.
>>118279470 It's a different kind of show which seeks a different storytelling. It never had the same focus on having its feet on the ground and instead always went wild even on its "calm" bits. Its silly to compare it YuYuYu or Gaim and you should feel silly for doing that.
>>118280839 > Finally, what are your thoughts on this conclusion?
>Urobuchi: Personally, I feel like I wrote all there is to Madoka in the TV series, and now I’ve written all there is to Homura in this movie. I feel like I’ve had both of them graduate. Anyway, I think that a school where a god and a devil are in the same class is pretty funny. If people use that to make new stories, I’ll be happy. I want this to be the kind of story where everyone will want to imagine their own sequel. http://feral-phoenix.livejournal.com/685568.html
>>118282631 >How do you want the fans to enjoy “Rebellion?”
>Urobuchi: Honestly, I think some will beautify it and some will reject it completely. These days, static characters who don’t change are popular, and if characters ever change even a little bit there’ll be people who’ll call that out-of-character and get angry. In this movie, Homura grows, and she changes. In the end, I’m a little worried as to whether people will accept a character like her. If they’ll think she’s OOC, or that she’s evolved. I’ll be happy if people accept that Madoka Magica is the kind of drama where characters grow and change like this. But that’s up to the viewers to decide. I guess it's up to you to decide
>>118282663 Change for the sake of change regardless of what kind of change isn't always automatically good. Her change may not have been completely OOC but it also wasn't the only change possible, and quite frankly it was an absolutely fucking ugly change compared to what was initially.
>>118268475 >up until this point, all the magic has been pretty well-defined with rules. Uh, not really? The only explanation we got of anyone's magic was "Sayaka wished for healing so she got healing". Beyond that, the extent of what magical girls could do was left completely open.
>>118286560 Kyubey implies numerous times that the full extent of what they're capable of is unknown. He uses that language rather deceptively (like with Kyouko) but I don't think it's that far from the truth.
>>118265560 No it wasn't. It was a nice diversion at best. I can't believe there are so much fags who call this a masterpiece. Then again Bebop, Naruto, Stein's;Gate and Evangelion have got a furiating fan base as well so do FF7, Ocarina of Time, Xenogears, Call of Duty, Fate/Stay Night and Clannad but those aren't really /a/-related
I watched Rebellion for the first time last night and it was really good! I found it thoroughly enjoyable albeit confusing. I think the movie is kind of what the series should have been more like; more actual arcs than just universe building.
The Mami/Homu shootout was cool, as was the surrealist art cut-out bits consistently throughout the movie rather than just for witch-battles. The SoL happy magical girls part in the beginning was delightful.
A few things I found confusing;
Why did homu become a witch? Didn't the series end cause witches as a "thing" overall to cease to be able to exist?
Also why did that jack in the box slinky thing that ate mami's head come back? And as a loli true-form? Was the loli supposed to be the prewitch form? Why did the slinky snake persist at all in the wraith reality? Witches can't be formed anymore right? I don't mind the inclusion of an old memorable char, and the cake exorcism or whatever that was was intriguing and adorable, but some explanation would be appreciated.
Also that ending; what exactly did Homu do?
It's like groundhog day is her thing, whether it be by magic, or reality warping, or whatever. but to WHAT END?
She's all like "I'm evil", but all she really did was reset the series (again); it's not like there are spikes and lava on everything now. Not even really sure what the major change is from any of the previous status quos. Perfect setup for another movie, season, etc...
It was pretty cute to have that many kyubeys onscreen at once though.
Are there any plans for more madoka movies? or a second season? or a spinoff?
Given; I did not watch the first two movies; would any of my questions have been answered if I had? Per wikipedia, the first two movies are just recaps of the series; which I saw relatively recently anyways, and I'm not big on clip shows of things I just saw.
Anyone else want to talk about madoka movie #3 and franchise future?
>>118278171 And the only thing that actually fleshes Mami's character or at least pays some attention to her will always be considered no more than a spin-off and be a matter of discussion whenever it gets brought up.
Then we have people calling Sayaka's story to be tragical.
It's overhyped and its fanbase is annoying. But it was fun and I cried a lot, at least the first time. I rewatched it awhile ago and it was really underwhelming. I feel like it's only good on the first watch.
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