In one simple sentence, explain to me why Shinji is choking Asuka.
>While recording the scene in which Shinji strangles Asuka, Ogata Megumi (Shinji) became so frustrated and agitated that she actually pushed Miyamura Yuko (Asuka) to the floor and strangled her. Because of this, Miyamura had difficulty speaking her lines for a while.
>Asuka's voice actress, Yuko Miyamura, mentioned in an interview that Asuka's final line in the movie was her own idea. The original script called for the line "An'ta nanka ni korosareru no wa mappira yo!" ("I'd hate to be killed by a bastard like you!"), but Miyamura, Megumi Ogata (the voice actress who played Shinji) and director Hideaki Anno were at a loss over how the line should have been delivered; Ogata even attempted to strangle Miyamura in frustration. Finally, Anno told Miyamura to imagine a stranger masturbating over her while she was sleeping; he also asked her what she would think or say upon waking and realizing what had happened. Miyamura's reply: "Kimochi warui" ("I feel disgusting").
This a very deep and complex show and you are certainly not the first person that wonder why is Shinki choking Azuca but the answer is in fact very simple.
She is a bitch and she getting what she deserves.
Witnessed the end of the world, only person alive for a long time, hallucinates, doesn't know if Asuka is real or a hallucination, gauges for a reaction out of her, gets affection instead of rejection, cries now that he's no longer alone and someone showed some affection.
He just came back from quite possibly the next best thing to heaven, in order to "save the world" and the first thing he sees is the bitch that kicks him and talks shit about everything he does
tl;dr she bitch he mad
I don't think so. I think it's just intended to be a long enough time that Shinji lost track of it. Not sure if Anno said anything about it. Read up on Evageeks, it'll be there if he did.
My guess is that he still swasn't ready to get close to another person, especially when they're the only two people left in a post-apocalyptic wasteland and especially when it's Asuka, but her kindness made reverse his decision.
I don't think he was. I think he was just looking for some sort of reaction from her to see if she was real. And because she showed affection, he let her go and cried. Its all he really wanted.
>In one simple sentence, explain to me why Shinji is choking Asuka.
Because he just had his mind raped by everyone on Earth collectively and he is attacking the last remaining person on Earth in a desperate act to retain his sanity as well as confirmation of her existence.
He h8 dat bitch because she sexually fustrate him.
Shinji is choking Asuka for the same reason he was choking her in this scene.
That's like saying 'Imagine how much better Love Hina would have been if Keitaro and Naru just fucked.
The point is, the show would have ended at that point. The entire point of Eva was not the Mecha fighting, Angels and Steele. The point was the fucked up lives of the main characters. And how Shinji, Asuka (and Misato) all pretty much had the same issues.
>The point is, the show would have ended at that point.
I hate this. Who says you have to end a show once its initial dilemma resolved. REC starts with the couple fucking. Half of Rainbow jail bros was about their integration back into normal life.
I'm not sure Eva had a point, to be honest.
I think it was supposed to be about mecha fighting and ended up being a documentary of one man's spiral into depression and madness.
I recall at the end of ep 26 them all coming to the same conclusion, that they are afraid to be alone. That all the things they do (Misato having sex, Asuka looking for praise from everyone, Shinji looking for being of worth to someone) they do to fill the feeling of loneliness that sinks a hole in their hearts. That's why I said loneliness.
These are Anno's words describing the series when it began. It was always very character focused, and always pretty depressing and personal.
>This is roughly the worldview for Neon Genesis Evangelion. This is a worldview drenched in a vision of pessimism. A worldview where the story starts only after any traces of optimism have been removed. And in that world, a 14-year-old boy shrinks from human contact. And he tries to live in a closed world where his behavior dooms him, and he has abandoned the attempt to understand himself. A cowardly young man who feels that his father has abandoned him, and so he has convinced himself that he is a completely unnecessary person, so much so that he cannot even commit suicide.
>And there is a 29-year-old woman who lives life so lightly as to barely allow the possibility of a human touch. She protects herself by having surface level relationships, and running away. Both are extremely afraid of being hurt. Both are unsuitable - lacking the positive attitude - for what people call heroes of an adventure. But in any case, they are the heroes of this story.
>They say, "To live is to change." I started this production with the wish that once the production complete, the world, and the heroes would change. That was my "true" desire. I tried to include everything of myself in Neon Genesis Evangelion-myself, a broken man who could do nothing for four years. A man who ran away for four years, one who was simply not dead. Then one thought. "You can't run away," came to me, and I restarted this production. It is a production where my only thought was to burn my feelings into film.
I'll ignore the one simple sentence rule, but the whole point of Shinji's instrumentality was that he learned to accept humanity despite it's hedgehog dilema. People will hurt each other, but only by accepting that can anyone find happiness or the warmth of others. After his interaction with the illusion of Asuka inside Instrumentality before Komm Susser Todd starts, he needs to make sure that this is the real world and not still inside Instrumentality. So he chokes Asuka to get a reaction, to prove that she'll actually react to him, and he expects her to react in a typical Asuka way; abrasively. But even better for him, she responds with a loving caress. She accepted him for all that he is, which is what he risked returning humanity to all its imperfections for.
the checking what's real explanation is really totally unsubstantiated in the film itself, it makes much more sense to think of it as a continuation of the previous choking scene
He literally hallucinates seeing Rei moments before Asuka shows up. I'm pretty sure he was having a hard time gauging what real and what's not. Also, ep 26, when he is alone in that white mist, he loses his sense of reality, who he is, and feels himself becoming nothing without human interaction. He had a very fragile view on reality while he was alone.
It's a little more than that. Yes, Shinji was rattled by the events of instrumentality and he could have mistaken Asuka as an illusion on the beach. However, he still had unresolved tensions with Asuka, largely stemming from her unwillingness to show affection, and he acts out on it when she emerges from Tang. When she caresses him, Shinji realizes he has been accepted and begins crying in reaction to this.
Not to turn this into a legit Eva thread, but I disagree. Eva's not just about postwar Japan (although that can certainly be a fair read, with everybody being named after WWII-era ships). I think Eva's about the discontent and social unease of being an otaku (or being a fuck of a person).
Anno's statements on the matter seem to indicate he thinks the two are linked in some way. Not that I think it's really the focus of eva or even a theme among others, but it does seem to bleed in.
Ok, so he's angry and frustrated at the world, who with angst isn't? And you gotta admit, Japan is kinda a default slave state to America...or was.
Uh...Female blood? If so...thats worse.
I think the postwar attitude and the disillusionment most Japanese felt towards the Imperial-era does play something of a role in Eva, but that merely restricting that to "Eva's influenced by the fact that Japan lost WWII" misses the mark a little.
To wit: Shinji's inability to display traditional masculine qualities (especially in contrast to Gundam pilots who are reluctant-yet-competent soldiers) mirrors the feelings of unease or dislocation echoed by postwar authors such as Yukio Mishima.
I don't know anon, I just don't know
it's probably why Eva's still my favorite anime.
I think if you had to focus it down to any one point of influence, it would be the way it portrays the gap between the pre- and post-2nd impact generations. I haven't really read much of anything on the subject so I could be completely off the mark, but it felt like an echo of a pre- and post-war divide. The children's sort of oblivious acceptance of what is basically a post apocalyptic scenario. I dunno, I think you're right in saying it's an influence but ultimately not the point in any real way.
FOR THE SAME REASON HE WAS CHOKING HER 20 MINUTES EARLIER IN THE FILM
Evengelion isn't deep, you people are just fucking dumb and try too hard
>hurr to prove he exists XD
Well anon, when you had a culture that existed somewhat homogeneously for 1400 odd years unchallenged, thinking to itself it could take on the world, lose that gamble...lost it HARD, then have to rebuild and conform to a world view and pathos that is, and still is, diametrically opposed to the "tradition" of your people...yeah, you'd have some problems too.
Human nature to Move On.
>95% of the males that have seen it identify with Shinji
I think you're right, and I also think that's why most people who watch Eva say they like it but they can't stand Shinji.
In regards to national trauma, that might be a point. The pre-war Imperial attitude and post-war/post-Hiroshima/Nagasaki attitudes are very different.
Anno would have grown up during an economic boom in Japan, and by the time Eva was released Japan itself was in an economic recession wasn't it?
I don't want to say that the generational gap isn't an influence, but at the same time the analogy isn't a 1 to 1 point.
So what. Everyone who's Japanese should just lie around, escape into their anime fantasies, and gradually commit suicide as their population increasingly shrinks just because of an awful event that happened in their history? Sounds like a certain segment of the Eva fanbase here on /a/.
>(Misato having sex, Asuka looking for praise from everyone, Shinji looking for being of worth to someone)
Another point of the series is that all of those actions are expressions of their self-hate and only hurt and dehumanize others, perpetuating the cycle. It turns everyone into distant objects for their own self-satisfaction, which is why he fapped to Asuka. It represented the hedgehog's ideal relationship - distant, abusive, and with no communication, only pleasant images for fleeting base satisfaction.
When he begs Asuka to support him in the coffee scene, she rightly points out that he doesn't give a shit who it's from, he'll just become dependent on them as his self-esteem doll, to replace his own individuality that he rejects. And when they leave, hedgehogs become broken like Gendo was without Yui. He desires his dad's love, someone he doesn't understand as a person (as Rei points out). He gets Kaworu's love, without bothering to try to understand him at all (or else he would've found out he was an angel). His desire for "love" causes him to become dependent and making his whole world revolve around it, refusing to grow as a person. Because he'll still hate himself all the same.
Asuka's mother becomes a doll with her individuality forcibly removed, and then, of course, can only see her daughter as a doll too. Which causes Asuka to only use herself and others as dolls to support her self-esteem, which only drives everyone away from her. Rei was a representation of that "dolled" individual, someone created and used by others to achieve their own self-satisfying goals, which Asuka was terrified of being and why she hated Rei. And she especially hated being a doll that's thrown away, like Ritsuko and her mother was to Gendo.
Instrumentality was also essentially "everybody hates themselves > rejects their individuality > fills themselves with everybody else who also hate themselves", which is what they've all been doing already. So fucked up.
Although I'm not going to discount the idea that Japanese people think they're culture is homogeneous (that narrative has been pretty reinforced since the Meiji/Taisho era), I don't think that's the major focus of Evangelion's story.
Despite being attached to a homogeneous Japan, Japan also thought of itself as "more Western" than a lot of other Asian states. This isn't really a major topic in Eva, but it's reflected by Eva's reliance on Lacan (Hedgehog's Dilemma) and other existentialist/angsty rhetoric.
If there is an element of national identity in Eva, it comes out in the interactions between Asuka and Shinji (specifically when Asuka uses national heritage to distance herself from Shinji).
It's a very different sort of "failure" however: as an economic crisis it didn't effect every Japanese citizen in the same way. Japan remains one of the world's largest economies, Japanese companies are some of the world's most affluent.
The discontent felt by the recession is less about becoming disillusioned with a certain sense of Japanese tradition and more coming to grips with the downfalls and hazards of aggressive capitalist modernity.
>He literally hallucinates seeing Rei moments before Asuka shows up.
That wasn't a hallucination. Rei's become god, and god can appear everywhere. It's why she appeared in episode 1.
>Bochan_bird, Drama card D-88; "Kimochi warui":
>"Shinji renounced the world where all hearts had melted into one and accepted each other unconditionally. His desire... to live with 'others' -- other hearts that would sometimes reject him, even deny him. That is why the first thing he did after coming to his senses was to place his hands around Asuka's neck. To feel the existence of an 'other'. To confirm (make sure of) rejection and denial."
>Regular side, picture description: "What we see is the aftermath of Third Impact, like in the ending sequence, there is Shinji standing (dressed in his school uniform), his hand, palm up, in front of him, and he's looking at (and casting his shadow upon) an unconscious Asuka, laying of the ground in an unconscious-but-also-inviting-and-somewhat-surrendering pose, her home attire messed up so that all what was visible of her in the original scene is there for Shinji and the viewer to see." Bochan_bird translation:
>"In the sea of LCL, Shinji wished for a world with other people. He desired to meet them again, even if it meant he would be hurt and betrayed. And just as he had hoped/wanted, Asuka was present in the new world. Only Asuka was there beside him. The girl who he had hurt, and by whom he had been hurt. But even so, she was the one he had hoped/wished for...."
>Reverse side:"3rd Children Ikari Shinji":
>"Neither Yui, Rei nor Misato could do as a woman for Shinji. Asuka alone was the only girl on equal footing with him. So, Shinji desired/sought after Asuka. "I'm afraid of Misato and Ayanami." However, Shinji's crude affection only hurt her. In the end, he used her as an object of lust/desire to soothe/ console himself..."
Anon...they know they lost and can never rise to that prestige again.
They have nothing left to pride themselves for but cheep electronics and cartoons that were originally inspired by a guy that hated Jews and drew a fucking mouse.
>Neon Genesis Evangelion: The Card Game (??????????? ??????) is a collectible card game that was first released by Bandai in 1998, with two main decks based on the original TV series and on the two movies (Evangelion: Death and Rebirth and The End of Evangelion) respectively. Both starter decks and supplemental packs could be purchased. Cards are divided into the categories Angel, Battle, Character, Drama, Instrumentality (??; incorrectly rendered "Consummation" in the English fan translation), and Put.
>Nearly all cards contain a quote from the show/movie and a small blurb of text pertaining to the Evangelion universe, related to the image on the card (usually a screenshot). The special Instrumentality cards have two sides, one of which features an original illustration by an artist from Gainax (Toshi Ishizaki, Shoji Saeki, Yusuke Yoshigaki, et al.).
>released by Bandai in 1998
>all cards contain a quote from the show/movie and a small blurb of text pertaining to the Evangelion universe
>original illustration by an artist from Gainax
Technically it is a LAS ending as they get over their hedgehog dilemma and are the focus of the final scene. Don't worry though, I'm sure Asuka will spare Shinji's boypussy for a future iteration of Kaworu to fuck his asshole.
I feel it's a bit scatterbrained because I kept running out of space. But basically I love the series for having all those connections of it's major themes to the characters and even plot elements like instrumentality/AT fields/Tumbling Down and making it feel like a whole, despite all the circumstances surrounding the production. It's almost like it's a miracle it managed to come out in mostly one piece at all.
That's a good way to look at it, basically everything in the universe happens because of their psychological problems. I wonder how you'd describe Utena?
I'd need to see Utena (been putting that shit off for years), but one answer I've seen is:
"Michel Foucault writes a yuri series" (what with the power dynamic between student council members and all.
Eva's been merched out to oblivion and beyond, if there's an object it probably has an official Evangelion version (which would make everything slightly meta if there was an Eva-themed therapy book).
There's something about the series blatantly whoring itself out for cash that's oddly fitting, however.
But it's not a shipping ending nor does it contain any romance at all. Asuka happens to be there because she has the same problems as Shinji, yet doesn't deal with them the same way.
She had the will to live and happened to be there. If Rei wanted to live she'd be there too. That Asuka and Shinji would end together romantically has never been implied. It's the same ending as episodes 25 and 26.
Truly Shinji's anus spans the dimensions of the universe.
I was going to say "the universe becomes a wacky Dezaki theater production"
Cars are a metaphor for adulthood. The school represents a closed space of youth and immaturity. Etc etc
I recommend any Eva fan to watch utena. I mean really now, what faggot hasn't watched it already?
You're pretty stupid, then. You just have to think hard about all the visual cues and metaphors.
Shinji choked her to represent the universal pain of communication.
Asuka caressed him to represent the solution to the hedgehog's dilemma.
You haven't even seen SEL? These are standard titles man.
And bakabt is still up
They were both doing the same thing to each other. So she threw her body around because it's the only thing she knew how to do. She never really opened up to him about who she really is, because she hates herself. Although I think she later started to try to open up more out of loneliness, with that stepmom confession.
Nope, I bet you haven't read more than 10 books.
/a/ is the best board because it's hte most hostile, again, just like Eva
Actually, I think 4chan in general bears out Anno's point that otaku-minded people grasp at straws to be seen as elite and just end up being dicks.
/a/ is actually made up of tsundere little girls. It explains a lot if you think of it that way.
I thin that was the point anon, that despite knowing each other Shinji and Asuka and having literally broken down the barriers between humanity, they ultimately treated each other like objects and strangers.
I wouldn't say really well, and it's never been confirmed Shinji felt anything more for her than friendship. Of course he wants to bang her and he wants to bang Rei too, but he doesn't have any plans to start a relationship with her.
>They got along really well before shit started spiraling out of control.
Not really. That whole "the character's are slowly starting to get along! happy house family!" part of the show was all a sham because they were still only interacting based on their flaws (Shinji needing Gendo's love and piloting the eva, Asuka throwing her sexuality around and still blowing her own horn, etc) and still didn't really know anything about each other, Misato too.
Why do they start pushing this "you only pilot for yourself" shit at the end of the series?
I'm pretty sure when Shinji came back the second time, it was because literally everything began to fall apart the moment he left. Rei got fucked, Asuka got fucked, the dummy plug wouldn't work, and humanity was about to end because Gendo is too incompetent to understand the importance of workforce morale.
The only choices Shinji had was to pilot EVA again or sit back and watch the whole world end. Technically you could accuse him for being selfish either way, but come on.
>Technically you could accuse him for being selfish either way, but come on.
That's pretty much it. You also have to remember that Shinji doesn't actually care that much about the rest of the world as an end in itself.
I don't think he got into the cockpit thinking "maybe if I save their asses this time Dad will finally praise me" though.
It's about as redundant as saying all humans are selfish because they are incapable of acting without the will to do so.
>I don't think he got into the cockpit thinking "maybe if I save their asses this time Dad will finally praise me" though.
Actually, kind of. I think it was at least as big a motivation as not wanting everything to die, because Shinji himself kind of wanted to die.
Anno was just trying to create a character that didn't want to save the world just because it was the right thing to do. That's why he pushed it.
> "maybe if I save their asses this time Dad will finally praise me"
But that is what he thought, mostly. It became his central identity. And not all humans, just people like Shinji. Look at Asuka for another example of someone who becomes dependent on praise of others.
It's just a metaphor for when people get complacent and begin to stagnate in a certain life situation due to fear of change and a desire to fit in with what others want, in hope you might get loved.
Also remember that Eva = Moms, and Anno was critical of young people being dependent on overprotective mothers, which also creates that same lazy stagnant situation.
Another interpretation I have is that "being an eva pilot" was a metaphor for Anno's job, and his crisis that might've followed after leaving the Nadia project when the filler episode projects got ordered. But that's just my speculation.
The symbolism here is that to Shinji, love is like strangulation.
When he kissed Asuka, he wasn't allowed to breathe, and nearly suffocated trying to continue kissing her.
From that point onward he created an association between the two, and in trying to convey his confused feelings to Asuka, strangles her instead, trying to return the kiss she originally gave him.
It would draw up an interesting parallel back when Asuka kissed him in episode 15, but it's far more likely that Shinji was enraged after being rejected rather than trying to return a kiss in his mind.
I don't think it's anything like that. I think he chokes her both times because he doesn't want to hear her say the word "No". It's about silencing them.
Asuka kissing him was still an immature misguided thing for her to do, though, but she was desperate, so she showed off her 'adult love tricks' to a scared virgin. She then basically got rejected by both Shinji (who "wouldn't even hold her") and Kaji too. And even by her caretaker Misato who stole him from her. Basically, it was disaster all around.
Symbolically yeah. I mean they go out of their way to get the same clothes and room, it's an obvious allusion.
As for motivation, I think I can stretch some connections. Asuka kissed Shinji because she knew Kaji had rejected her for Misato while she sat there with Shinji in the flat, so she wanted some "intimacy" to feel wanted and loved again. Her whole mature act was an expression of her not wanting to be a doll who relies on others, which she has because of her self-doubt and distrust of others (thanks mom), and dependence on praise. So she suffocates him for more or less the same reasons he does, insecurity.
Control of instrumentality.
Rei ultimately deferred it to Shinji, who decided that he'd rather live as an individual.
Now everyone else can leave too, if they want.
If SEELE had had the control, no one would leave.
If Gendo did, he wouldn't really give a fuck as long as he was with Yui.
Yeah, they should call it the Mad Roman Emperor Condition or M-REC.
But now that you mention it, wasn't Shinji also horrified when he found out the nature of Evas?
But she already died. And got better.
At their core, Shinji and Asuka suffered from the same problem, they just went about it in different ways. Asuka using aggression (pinching Shinji's nose shut) and Shinji being generally avoidant. So yes, you could say that they were suffocating each other out of their insecurities.
However, this is where I would point out a discrepancy in your parallelism. When Asuka kissed Shinji, it was another extension of her usual aggressive cover up for her insecurity. When Shinji chokes Asuka, it was not done out of insecurity, it was done because he was forced to realize the harsh truth that he was being selfish. That he had as much share in the blame, and he didn't like that one bit. So he breaks out of his passive routine and attacks her, in an effort to force the truth away.
My post is one compound sentence, but the explanation lies within pic related.
/r/ing the pic where a fat neckbeard just closes his curtains when he sees giant naked rei outside his window. i seem to have lost it
there you go m80, sorry if this somehow isn't the right one
Which is bullshit, by that same logic we can annotate everything as selfish. Everything.
Look up Game Theory if you don't believe me.
This part is a retarded part about Evangelion.
This show might make 0 sense or might be 2deep4me but at least it looked good
>Let's go to Evageeks
>I bet they have a lot interesting information!
Well, Miyamura sunk the LAS ship long ago.
Aaaand seeing as how Shinji just got confirmed as a gay slut wth daddy issues who craves Kaji, wouldn't blame them if they need something to cling to.
We can still have more canon cockslut Shinji right?
Lusts after men like Kaji cause his immature heart craves the affection of older men.
>Does not spare Kaworu
What's this tell you about who Shinji loves more?
Are you serious? He requested it you know. Shinji only went through it because he thought 'angels are bad' and then realized he was wrong. But I guess 'he deserved to live' and 'I loved him' flew right above your head somehow
I guess you'd feel like strangling the next person you saw if you had the day that Shinji just had.
The hot tsundere bitch he'd been having issues with constantly suddenly deciding to show him some compassion and maybe even affection just made him break down
Frustration after spending most of the series getting blueballed by Asuka and being too beta to do anything.