I watched Gunbuster last night for the first time and I'm not sure how I feel about it. My initial impression was something like a 2.5/5, but I read some essays on it and watched some reviews and I think I like it a little more the more I think about it.
Is Gunbuster deep, /a/nons? Or is it just douchebags looking too hard into stupid bullshit?
>>111188553 >Nobody thinks it was deep and philosophical you dumbass, we just think that the girls were prettier, sexier and the action was more badass. >also it had ecchi, but not overwhelming amounts of moe. that's why people here praise old anime, not because depth or someshit top lel
>>111188830 >deep It's sci-fi, anon. Watch Diebuster for the nice ending that wraps the whole thing up. Compared to contemporary anime the most it has is nipples. Time dilation was a nice touch as well. Just sage.
>>111191628 True, but that defies the meaning of moe, since you're not invested in the character but only looking for the weekly tits and ass hijinks, if older viewers actually watched it - the 80s wasn't that deprived of porn. It's the difference of Love Live and Maken-ki.
>>111192421 Absolutely. Anime now is largely the same as anime then: a few jems in a sea of mediocre to crap other shows. The jems will be remembered, the mediocre shows will be enjoyed as they air, and /a/ will spend most of its time discussing the crap.
>>111192421 While ideally one should be able to enjoy anime from a wide range of genres and eras, I would much rather deal with fans who only watch newer anime than ones who are stuck in the past and can't do anything besides complain.
>>111191880 >that defies the meaning of moe, since you're not invested in the character True enough, but the moe-bashing crowd believes it's about a category of anime or character archetypes, or typically just anything that isn't gritty Sci-fi. In the sense they mean it, those things have been integral to anime all along.
>>111188517 Who the heck thinks that, OP? I just like it because cel animation is more appealing to me. It felt more natural and the colors weren't in your face.
This part is nostalgia probably, but its imperfections were charming, while imperfections in anime today just seems lazy since it feels like it would be an easy thing to change with computers being involved.
There was an equal ratio of good anime to forgettable shit back in the 70s, 80s, and 90s as there is today. However shows ran longer, there were less airing at any given time, and the financial backing and marketing for individual franchises was greater making it appear that the shows of yesteryear were absolute titans to the shows of today. The fact is in the spring of 1987 there was just as much quality anime happening as there was in the spring of 2014.
The chief difference is the shows today run less time, get less backing, and since we are living in the present the bad shows stick out so much more than the bad shows of the 80s do.
>>111193392 I have a better question for you. Do you know if that scene is from the TV or the Movies?
Because I'm almost positive it's from the movies.
Which is my point. Every time a well animated scene, gore or tits are shown it's from an OVA or a movie. So posting them trying to make a point about old anime is meaningless. New OVAs and movies are superior as well.
>>111193469 Younger fans I meet today look back on like 2004-05 as this bygone era and are rose-tinted about what came out then. They think they missed out on this era when all anime was good, forgotten the number of bad anime released then.
There will be 19 year old kids who pay $40 for old NES carts and show a big collection and claim "modern games just aren't goo anymore".
They struggle through the best and worst of the 80s and claim it was all solid gold. They will defend obsucure unplayable shit as being "ahead of it's time" even though the game was rushed, incomplete, and the challenge was not by design but simply a result of bad play control.
>>111193469 It seems like half the shows from 80s that get brought up are of the extreme so-bad-it's-good OVA variety. Of course, the thing about a lot of those OVAs, Angel Cop for instance, is that they're considered bad mostly because some guy on ANN said so.
>>111193951 Truth to be told, I like old eroge. They had eroge for all sorts of genres while nowadays it's just simple adventures and a few RPG. I don't miss them because there's still a ton I haven't played.
>>111188553 I miss everything being hand drawn. I'll take the QUALITY that comes with that if it means we still get the impressive exceptions. While digital assisted production isn't bad per se at all it's pretty much only used as a cost cutting homogenizing feature. In the modern era there's less polarization when it comes to QUALITY but that also means there's less impressive stuff as well. Pic related, it's digital not being necessarily evil.
And a lot of the early eroge wasn't necessarily explicit. Most was pantyshots and nipples as rewards for reaching certain achievements. They really were not that far off from the modern PS Vita fan service game.
>>111194537 Early eroge had growing rewards. You start with small glimpses and in the end get the full monty. Censorship wasn't as enforced during the 80s so quite a few have detailed vaginas without mosaic or other censoring.
But in the sequel to the moe pirate game they added a catgirl. The producers decided it wasn't already moe enough. This was 1990 though and by then every single fantasy game should have a catgirl if at all possible.
I was just posting .gifs of older anime to keep the thread going not to make a point or some shit. On top of that if you think "a well animated scene, gore or tits" make an anime deep and "philosophical" you're an even bigger retard than I'd already assume you are.
Nadesico really set the standard for otaku pandering, considering it was just a Yamato parody made in 1996.
>homage to 1970s mecha anime and hot blooded mecha pilots >One girl is a former voice actress in a magical girl series >One girl is a fujoshi and draws BL manga >cosplay >A Kuudere that out-Rei's Rei Ayanami (and also wears cat pajamas). >A more forgettable Tsundere >love triangle cooking episode >Christmas episode >beach episode >beauty pageant episode >an anime convention episode >"early 21st century highschool" VR sim >best recap episode in the history of anime
They managed to do pretty much all of this on their ship while flying to Jupiter.
>>111197525 I've been working my way through the BD, had half the people tell me that was the way to go and the other half say the low-quality was the way to go. Honestly the early episodes (especially the first 26) are filled with QUALITY no matter how you slice it.
But the storytelling and directing is incredible and nothing should detract from that.
>>111197597 I don't know if it set the standard as much as it was one of the first. Otaku pandering had been slowly developing itself from the late 80s and early 90s as the same people who used to be otaku now were the ones making anime. Nadesico certainly can be considered at the forefront of what would come later though. That being an entire wave of shows that treated themselves as confined to a specific otaku circle and needed to pander to them as much as possible.
The in-show "classic anime" Gekiganger III got it's own episode, where they were real and they watched a cartoon called Nadesico.
The 1970's characters watched the 13 episode recap episode and commented on it from their own perspective.
Just as the Nadesico pilots drew inspiration from Gekiganger, the Gekiganger pilots drew inspiration from the heroic feats of the Nadesico crew. The villain was also watching Nadesico and he was also inspired from it.
It was one of the most original clip/recap episodes of all time.
The whole term "JRPG" really bothers me. It implies mechanical differences between RPGs and "JRPGs". And it really makes no sense whatsoever if you know something about RPG history, or the rich history of the industry in Japan and outside of it.
Not old, but oh boy, where to begin. _________________________________________________ ____________________________ ____________________________________________________________ __________________________________________
_____________________ ________________________________________________________ _______________________________ This anime is a masterpiece from the physiological point. Anyone who disagrees was too dumb to realize its greatness.
>>111199126 It's fine if you use it in the same way as anime/cartoons. A JRPG is just a RPG from Japan. There is no inherent gameplay, art or whatever attached to it, it doesn't even have to be in Japanese.
>>111199917 To elaborate, most westerners are also pretty confused about the genre, but at least they got the basic gist of it, it has to involve narrative decision making, how many JRPG have that? Furthermore almost all JRPG have you control entire parties of character, a concept which is almost antithetical to the idea of roleplaying.
Japanese media always loved to have fun with light sexual entertainment and comedy. That has always been there. There was an oldschool 'moe' aesthetic before people knew what to call it. But it was there. And it's fine. It's a fun little element of anime.
>>111200403 > a concept which is almost antithetical to the idea of roleplaying.
Wrong, cRPGs had controllable parties since the time of fucking Ultima,BG,Arcanum,etc.
In the first place "Role Playing Game" is just a borrowed term from the PnP version. Technically speaking you can roleplay as every character, even Kratos from God of War.
Here's some defining traits of the RPG genre (parties have nothing to do with it) >Story and setting
>Exploration and quests
>Items and inventory
>Character actions and abilities
>Experience and levels Game must have one of the following : -The experience system (Get exp ,level up , increase stats) -The training system (Hit things many times with a sword , character becomes better with Swords)
...yet, you still watched the series. Me, I watched the first few minutes of ep. 1 of Kaiji. The terminal ugliness gave me eye cancer. I clicked off the media player and deleted the file. That's the difference betwen you & I, I guess.
>>111201129 What I meant to say is that any RPG worth calling an RPG needs to have "leveling up" which can happen in two ways. One is the standard "level up at 1000 experience" , and the other method is the one used by certain games in the past, like Ultima where you hit things with a weapon and your "weapon skill" levels up automatically.
>>111188830 I'm on Episode 2 right now. It's definitely not meant to be taken too seriously or interpreted in the same way Eva is, but the attention to detail (like Time Dilation and shit) makes it really enjoyable and fun. Plus, the animation is extremely beautiful.
>>111201035 Wrong, cRPGs had controllable parties since the time of fucking Ultima,BG,Arcanum,etc.
And they're lesser RPGs for it. You're right that you can role-play as practically any character or object in any game, however in a roleplaying game this sits at the core of the play mechanics. The game has to be centered around a narrative and it has to bend according to the player's action. As a matter of fact, your average eroge is more of an RPG than Final Fantasy.
>>111205913 Except for Ultima 1 and 2 of course. They're on par with the great RPG ancestor Rogue before they were tainted with elements from that shit stain Wizardry. Of course Zork is the greatest RPG of all times.
No they're not. And cRPGs purpose was to simulate the PnP RPG experience. Usually you didn't play alone, you had a party, thus parties in cRPGs too.
I don't really understand why you consider this a problem, you only controlled the characters during the fights as to constitute less of a problem for the developer to make AI that will satisfy the player. In the end your party members are still their own characters, you don't roleplay as them, they follow you for their reasons and you only control them during fights. Everywhere else you roleplay as the blank state that is the player character.
>>111193767 >Japanese games have gone down in quality immensely. They haven't actually, it's just that none of the good stuff gets translated anymore. If I had a fat stack of cash and a bottomless supply of translators, I would dedicate my life to bringing over niche Japanese games.
>>111207463 >only control them during fights You can also use them to open chests, disarm traps and shit like that. Many games will allow you to continue with your party even while your main character has is dead or otherwise incapacitated.
Not so sure nowadays. They seem to follow more so the Tenchi or Mahoromatic route, where there's only one MC surrounded by a bunch of females that want him and maybe one guy that rarely gets screen time.
What does that even mean? Everything is still hand drawn.
If you're talking about animators going digital (Flash, Toon Boom, TVpaint etc) then you're frankly stupid and wrong because in Japan most animating is still done with your traditional pen & paper, only difference being that coloring is done digitally. So quite literally the only difference between now and then is that we have a clearer picture and better resolution and wider range of colors.
I don't know you, but you are probably like most /a/nons here who watch a lot of airing anime, with a backlog of classics. Classics obviously gaining such reputation not only through good story, but also good animation production. When you watch new anime, you see a lot of half-assed shit because that's how anime is and has always been, but when you look back at old anime you only see great masterpieces. This obviously gives a twisted image of the old anime industry. I feel like you're just not looking at the right places. Anime is just as well, if not better animated than what it used to be, which is mostly thanks to the digital coloring and capturing methods. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVKk8wrwO4Q&list=UULCC3Gw0J_QT-eC6sRdVgpQ
>>111215728 The animation is better mainly because of higher budgets. As you stated yourself, the actual drawings are still made with pen and paper the same way they always have. As for the inking and coloring, there are obvious advantages to doing things the digital way, but you can't really say that one method produces objectively better results than the other.
>>111215728 It's clear you didn't even read my post. Just one thing I'll call out though >better resolution If you think the ~900p that studios are finally flirting with has more detail than 35mm film you're on crack.
>>111220374 Of course I read your post. What you're saying makes no sense though, because the only thing that has changed in the animation process is that they've gone from capturing with a camera to using a scanner. All the actual labor that happens in the animating process itself is still the same. You're saying that the mere addition of digital technology somehow makes the animation process itself worse, when in fact all those new factors only come in to play later on in the production, way after the key drawings have been done.
>If you think the ~900p that studios are finally flirting with has more detail than 35mm film you're on crack.
Hear me out here.
Just because it's filmed on a 35 mm camera, doesn't mean that the cels themselves have more detail. Cels were 10.5" x 12.5" Current animation paper is 13.5" x 17" You can put more detail into a bigger piece of paper. Simple as that. It doesn't matter what capture technology you use (scanning is more accurate anyways but that's besides the point). Not to mention that you can be far more precise with digital coloring, than you could with cels.
>>111213677 I consider myself a bit of a romcom obsessee and I've never once felt Mahoromatic was a standard at all. Tenchi is certainly a standard for any sort of harem-based romcom, but for the traditional romcom it's gotta be Urusei Yatsura.
I guess I'm too old and the kids have a completely different perception of things based on what they saw when they were young, which is all well and good.
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