Did sacrifice ever actually work?

>>19601324
because sacrifice is one of the reasons gods go out into the world and an intrinsic part of the relationship between mortal and god
obviously there are more than one ways of giving up something to a god, you don't have to murder your virgin daughter for god points

Let's sacrifice a nigger to the KFC gods.

>>19601338
So... They were summoning a God, basically? If a God is supreme (or at least supreme to humans), why would he come for anything BUT human sacrifice? That seems to be the most valuable thing you can offer a God.

>>19601348
well, before I think there was also a "god's favor".

>>19601361
What's that?

Their "gods" were demons, Satan rewards people if they carry out wicked / evil deeds.

>>19601348
like I said everybody gives up a lot of stuff in their day to day lives whether they realize it or not so gods of that place go there and see that shit in a way

>>19601372
That's what I was thinking. It seems strange for a human to be able to summon a God, who shouldn't want anything from them. Then again, in religions like Christianity, they can summon their God with prayer and singing together. So maybe Gods and demons are related to the point of being indistinguishable from each other.

>>19601373
So it's entertainment to them?

>>19601372
Their gods were only "Demons" because a bunch of self-righteous missionaries came along and declared them to be so. Much like they took a mid-tier god from ancient civilization and raised him up as their Supreme Being (tm).

>>19601382
Theres only one true God however back in those times many people were pagans, and worshipped statues / false gods etc. It still occurs today you have muslims sacrificing blowing themselves up taking other peoples lives for their false god "allah". Whenever people do with sacrifices its to get some kind of reward but consequences of it is far worst, normally leads to hell.

>>19601407
Do you know that Muslims literally believe in the exact same god as Christians? "Allah" is just a word for god. They would be saying "allah" even if they were Christian or Jewish. Because that's how language works, anon.

>>19601384
more like a way for people to understand their place and get something out of it

>>19601407
Many cultures have believed in multiple Gods across all of human history, but you choose to believe in a monotheistic religion that denounces everything else without any proof? Being popular doesn't make it correct. Not to mention your "one true God" was also pretty fond of sacrifices, back in the day.

>>19601421
In fact, he was also a prankster when it came to sacrifices. So much so that he was known to demand that his followers sacrifice their own children, only to stop them mid-swing and inform them they passed the loyalty test. Meanwhile, a nigga almost just murdered his son because an unidentifiable voice he believed to be a god told him to do so.

>>19601418
I don't understand. Why would sacrificing your loved ones humble you to a God? And why would that God give you anything in return for it? Are they bound by an unspoken contract? Do they HAVE to give you something in return for sacrifices? Could they fuck with you and not show up at all?

>>19601432
>Why would killing a loved one in the name of a higher power humble you?
Are you serious anon?

>>19601441
Yes. I could understand it being a humbling experience if a God demanded it. But if you choose to do it yourself, how is it humbling?

>>19601464
Obviously their gods DID demand it. Are we just making up narratives now or what? They sincerely believed it was necessary. They didn't just say "hey let's kill people...maybe it will help and maybe it won't, but let's do it anyway."

>>19601477
Alright. So let's say their God demanded they sacrifice someone for a nice harvest. You believe he asked for this because he wants humans humbled? Is it possible that the reason the humans had a bad harvest in the first place was because they had forgotten to be subservient to him, and he refused to give them anything until they were?

>>19601417
Muslims serve a different God than Christians. Their God they proclaim has no son. Christians believe God does have a son and name his is Jesus who died for the sins of the world. Muslims dont believe that, their q'uran is full of perversions

>>19601488
They don't accept Jesus as the son of god. They DO believe in the exact same god. Literally, the exact same god. As in, derived from the exact. Same. Scripture. Just because they don't subscribe to your doctrine and you don't subscribe to theirs doesn't mean you're not ALL worshiping Yahweh. Who is actually an ancient Sumerian or Mesopotamian god, anyway. Christ on a cracker, are you seriously so far up your own ass that you can't see beyond your own credulity?

>>19601498
Jesus failed anon. Just admit it. I don't know if you have read your bible lately, or taken a look at the world, but the disparity is irreconcilable.

>>19601499
Its not the same God, they teach God has no son which pretty much will condemn them

>>19601506
Jesus didn't fail as he said himself "It is finished" . Sorry but im not one to be easily deceived.

>>19601507
>it is not the same God
Then please prove it using something other than your faith that Chrisitianity is correct. Let's look at the sources of scriptures, shall we? And take a look at the role of the Old testament in the development of Islam. Unless you have something scholarly or academic to contribute on the subject, your statements are less than worthless. I can believe that the sun is made of water and the oceans are fire, but I bet I'll have a hard time convincing you I'm right unless there's at least a BIT of evidence leaning that way.

>>19601518
>im not one to be easily deceived
Said the anon who believes Jesus is the Son of God because ONE compilation makes such a claim, and believes that Muslims don't worship Yahweh because their crazy bullshit doesn't validate his crazy bullshit

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>you will never go back in time and kill Abraham to prevent these bullshit religions from ever happening

>>19601539
Anon, it's Blasphemous to imply the Muslims Worship the God of Abraham. s you can see above, the God of Abraham clearly had a son called Jesus, therefore neither the Jews nor The Muslims are worshiping the same god, the One True God (tm) of the 'Christians'

>>19601521
>And take a look at the role of the Old testament in the development of Islam.

LOL good one

>>19601543
Why? What books do you think Mohammed was reading?

>>19601539
I feel you anon.

>>19601521
If you actually read both the holy bible & q'uran you would know the clear differences between the two. Muhammed himself was unsure he would go to heaven & he wrote the q'uran. The q'uran even spoke of "allah" being the greatest of deceivers in contrast to the holy bible Satan is known as the greatest deceiver. Btw i honestly dont care what you or anyone view as worthless. Only what God says matters to me

>>19601544
Yes. I agree that the Quran is a different book from The Bible. I also agree that it is not the Old testament. Much like the New testament, it was an expansion upon and "updating" of the older scripture. You can sit around all day justifying your puerile credulity, but I believe you would be laughed out of the room at any University, except for maybe Fallwell's liberty University.

>>19601430
Sauce on said nigger?

>>19601553
Why do you keep deleting and re-posting comments? this is the second or third time you have done this. Also, let's take a look at what, exactly, Mohammed's claim to legitimacy was...it's almost like he...claimed some sort of spiritual lineage or something?

>>19601546
have you even read the quran? its pretty clear muhammed never read scripture, as he gets all of his facts wrong. the man didn't even know how to read.

>>19601561
Abraham. He was "commanded by god" to sacrifice his son Isaac, but it turns out god actually just wanted to see if he would really do it, because, of course as the scripture says "I am a Jealous god"

>>19601564
> he gets all of his facts wrong.
How does this change the fact that Muslims are worshiping Yahweh. the illiterate, for centuries, worshiped in Christianity, Islam, and Judaism

>>19601573
you cannot claim to worship the Truth if you believe the lie.

>>19601559
Trust me i can careless if im laughed out of anywhere those same people will stand before God and will be judged. They surely wont be laughing then

>>19601574
First of all, "I can care less" means just that. You CAN care less. the proper way to say what you're trying to say is " I couldn't care less." Now that we've got THAT out of the way, you sound like quite a Chrisitian. The very Paragon.

> i can careless if im laughing out of anywhere those same people will stand before God and will be judged.

Very Jesus like of you.

>>19601579
Then I don't know why you're up on your high horse. For someone who claims to be Christian you have exhibited literally none (0) of the qualities Jesus came to teach to his followers. Except for the threats of eternal damnation. You've got the brimstone act down cold. you should try revival tents and handle snakes. you'd fit right in.

>>19601581
Why worry about what the world says when Christ will judge them all. I rather be laughed into heaven then cheered by universities goin to hell which is unfortunately happening to many

>>19601605
So you're placing a reverse-occam's razor bet? Gotcha. I also don't believe you a bit when you say
>"which is unfortunately happening to many"
I don't believe you find that unfortunate at all. I believe you get a perverse pleasure from the idea that you will be one of the 'chosen few' to go to "paradise (which sounds boring as shit, desu)" while the rest suffer. Tell, me, when exactly, between the Old testament and the new Testament, did god devise the concept of eternal damnation?

>>19601593
This discussion is not about spreading the gospel telling people to repent and jesus love for them it's about comparing the bible & q'uran & how people seem to be confused that christian and muslims serve the same God,

everything ive said is from the scriptures those who deny the son are condemned thats direct scripture

>>19601623
everyone chooses their own eternal destiny. if people are told to repent and accept jesus to be saved and they in return reject salvation what else you want me to say.

>>19601625
That's funny, because it appears as though you turned it into a discussion about the validity of other religions as opposed to your religion, based solely on personal opinion derived from a poor understanding of scripture. OK so tell me this: if the Muslims worship a different god, what's his name? In what pantheon did he originate? Where do we trace him back to? Also, Please note >>19601521
I would LOVE for you to debate this with someone who actually went to school for comparative religion.

>>19601639
>If people are told to jump off a bridge and don't, what else do you want me to say?
This is what you sound like. Do you even think a little bit for yourself?

>>19601593
im not the same poster youve been arguing with, cool your jets. all im saying is that jesus christ told us that he was the way, the truth, and the life, that none come to the father except through him. either he was telling the truth, or he was lying. and if he was telling the truth, that means anything contrary to this statement is a lie. i believe jesus was telling the truth, because he told me so. you cannot claim to worship the truth while believing the lie. if jesus was telling the truth, muslims and jews and everyone else believe the lie. they cannot be worshipping the truth, because they believe in a lie.

>>19601605
>>19601623
>>19601625
>>19601639
>>19601643
>>19601647
>>19601660

I'd rather be talking about the validity of human sacrifice...

>>19601660
>im not the same poster youve been arguing with
Oh, no...just have the same beliefs and typing style, as well as arguments. It sounds to me as if you're arguing that, once Jesus Came, the God that the Jews had been worshiping up to that point suddenly turned into something else. Because if what Jesus said Is, indeed, "truth," this means that the Old testament is True as well. Because Jesus was merely fulfilling the prophecies of the Torah

>>19601643
You have yet stated any facts from the q'uran or bible just asking question after question yet you say people have a poor understanding of scripture? funny until you have read the books you cannot have a debate with anyone and anything you say is pretty much meaningless desu.

>>19601668
Me too. I don't know why Christists have to push their views, and are SO certain in them. Just live your fucking lives believing whatever bullshit you want, but don't bring it up in a discussion as though it's academic or scholarly in any way, shape, or form.

>>19601539
fucking this

>>19601675

I have, indeed, stated that Muslims, Jews, and Christians, all believe in and worship the God of Abraham. that IS a fact from scripture. Now refute me with something other than MUH BEELEAFS or admit you're a quack

>>19601518
I believe you! God won't forgive me anymore! PLEASE HELP me!

>>19601671
jesus was the messiah as prophecied in the hebrew scriptures, you are absolutely correct. so what is the issue?

the issue is that when God himself came to the jewish people, they decided that He wasn't good enough for them.

>>19601689
Wow thats insightful scripture they all serve the same god as stated in the very beginning do you have anything else? lol

>>19601697
>the issue is that when God himself came to the jewish people, they decided that He wasn't good enough for them.
According to the New testament. What about in the OT when he came to Moses, issued the law, and the Israelites were God's chosen people? Remember, the argument you are making is that this is a different god than that of the Christians. How can you possibly argue that?

>>19601704
Well, idk what to say. Are you changing sides now? Because look what you said up here: >>19601507
>>19601498
Your bullshitter is showing.

>>19601704
>>19601710
>>19601714
Anyway, your schizophrenia is amusing, but I have a dissertation on Ophidian Gnosticism that isn't going to write itself. Have fun never questioning anything.

>>19601324
yes the "Europeans" sacrificed too. (((behind closed doors))) especially...

>>19601391
No, it's because the "gods" were all the "fallen angels"

>>19601710
no, the argument im making is that the voice from the burning bush is the same voice as the one which came from the mouth of jesus christ. remember what i told you? im not the same person you have been arguing with, and you are putting words in my mouth. i dont appreciate that. my argument is that when the hebrew peoples saw their god face to face, they decided he wasnt good enough for them. muslims dont really have anything to do with it, as they showed up 600 years after the fact with a book of nothing more than poorly written retellings of the old testament, many of which have their facts wrong, a collection of arabian folklore, and a madman possessed by demons claiming he is the new prophet of god. jews used to worship the god of israel, they dont anymore. muslims never did. Jesus is the way and the truth and the life, and there are none who come to the father except through him.

>>19601720
>he believes in gnosticism

>>19601689
Did you know muhammed had sex with a child? Did you know muhammed tried to kill himself at one point? Did you know muhammed taught: Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it. Did you know muhammed desired to marry his sons wife?
All of such actions are against the holy bible do you have any scripture to provide sinse your so eager to debate

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>all the potent autism ITT

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>>19601689
>>19601679
>>19601671
I think pic related would help a lot of people in this thread if anyone wanted to read an academic work on the subject of interpretation.
Also is it safe to say we all agree the three religions all heavily relied on Abraham, his sons, and their family's different relations and interpretations of what they believed to be the same God?

>>19601751
Yes, it exists.
>The anon can't even fathom someone writing a paper about a subject they don't obsessively base their life around

>>19601753
Did you know jesus laid naked in bed with another man? Did you know that, since we have no record of his childhood, jesus could have done almost anything up until he was in his thirties? I think Mohammed was a scumbag, but that doesn't change history. I love how you change your techniques from post to post. that way you'll never commit the same logical fallacy twice, right?

>>19601498
>>19601498
The only way to really justify this argument would be to argue that the God Jesus spoke of as his father in the NT was a NEW or different god from that of the Jews and Muslims. Anything else would be some kind of weird retroactive thing that doesn't make sense at all. Anyway, I think we got on this subject because of the fact that god, in the OT, accepts sacrifices of all kinds, including human sacrifices. At what point did references to "sacrifice" go from being literal, to being veiled references to sexual acts? Was it before the Victorian era?

>>19601790
Sweet. Thanks anon. i'm seeing if I can find a pdf

>>19601324
My understanding of the Vedic view is that sacrifices are of two general types. Physical ones are like an exchange - we give you the results of the favorable environmental conditions you provide and in assurance of a further benevolent relationship. Sacrifice through hardship/austerity/renunciation is more a forcing of will onto the environment. The one keeps their desire and focus so stationary and one-pointed that it disrupts the movement of the universe. At that point the gods will offer what they can to the yogi to get them to stop.

The human/animal killing part is more hazy to me. I've heard it was to show the potency of the brahmin performing the ceremony; that the soul was to immediately migrate to a human body thus being a karmic shortcut for the animal rather than proceeding through all the animal forms back to human.

>>19601890
>s are of two general types. Physical ones are like an exchange - we give you the results of the favorable environmental conditions you provide and in assurance of a further benevolent relationsh
THANK YOU for getting us back on track! That's incredibly interesting...I guess I always kind of knew what the ascetics were up to in the back of my mind, but MAN you put it really well.

There is also the asvamedha, or horse sacrifice. Descriptions I've read are like a solidification of power: a ksatriya will send a special horse out to roam free with a message essentially saying "Any land this horse goes to is mine, if you try to stop it, I will fight you for control."

>>19601826
>jesus laid naked in bed with another man
[citation needed]

>we have no record of his childhood
technically we do, but the books aren't considered canon, and may not be 100% accurate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament_apocrypha#Infancy_gospels

>>19601338
>you don't have to murder your virgin daughter for god points
yeah that's what the feminist orthodoxy wants you to think.

>>19601407
And you have Christians joining the military to fight and kill them for their god, god. And maybe rape a few male subordinates at the same time.

>>19601942
>and may not be 100% accurate
Are you..in comparison to what ? The goddamn bible?

>>19601742
Do you have any evidence for this? I'd like to read about it.

>>19601790
I don't care about this argument going on in my thread. Anyone who does should probably create another one to jerk off about Jesus or Muhammed or whoever. However, this looks like an interesting book, so thanks.

>>19601932
Wikipedia calls this "ashvamedha". It seems strange. Apparently if this horse wasn't killed or captured, the guy who sent it out was top dog. The horse was then sacrificed. Do you think the sacrifice was necessary? Was it a means to get a God's favor, or was it just a part of the ritual?

>>19601324

It depends on the culture. Human sacrifice is unlikely to please the gods. In many pagan cultures a "sacrifice" is done in conjunction with a feast - or the sacrifice is in some way used by the mortal as well. For example, in Greco-Roman culture the bones and some of the fat of sacrificed cows are burned for Zeus and the meat is eaten by the people. That's what they would do at the Olympics, for example, hundreds of cows would be slaughtered, the fat and bones would be burned and there would be a huge feast.

>>19602035
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Alphabet_of_Sanskrit_Transliteration

>>19602062
Would the Gods be pleased by a feast because they're happy to see humans enjoying divine design? Are Gods the type to be happy when others are happy? Why do you believe a human sacrifice would be insufficient?

>>19601324
Choose the best and most beautiful lamb that your flock ever produced.

You know the one, your PET lamb,
the one your children cuddle up to.

Sacrifice it, so that your god will reign down blessings. So that you will have peace of mind and self forgiveness.

Then, when none of that shit happens, you'll understand why you were instructed to sacrifice it.

We kill worthless gods.

>>19602168
>Then, when none of that shit happens, you'll understand why you were instructed to sacrifice it.
>We kill worthless gods.

Are you suggesting the reason old world Gods are no longer praised is because they gave people nothing?

Or are you just doing a bit?

>>19601324
The real god, The catholic god, only wanted sacrifices of animals and food, etc. not Human souls. People sacrificed stuff like that to god as a sign of them giving up things important to them (food, animals, etc.) and getting rid of them as a sign of them saying "Ay god, thanks for giving me life, so in return, ill give you my lamb and some fruit in thanksgiving"

>>19602430
So. Similar to a child giving their parent a macaroni portrait?

>>19602142
The "gods" are demons no they dont want anyone happy their evil, lol. sacrifices makes them happy because they hate mankind

>>19602472
Why does 'the real god' allow these other gods to exist? Isn't being good already hard enough for most humans?
Please don't say free will because that shit ain't real.

>>19602207
I'm suggesting that the messenger that stopped Abraham's knife was Abraham himself, saying "dude, wtf, no god worth a shit would ask you to kill your kid. get a grip"

And from then on Abraham thought himself god enough that he was able to burn known civilization.

There are no gods out there.

>>19602484
Freewill is real but applies just to humans, angels and demons have very limited will and in most cases have to follow spiritual laws. ever since the fall of man the authority of earth has been given to satan which also allows demons to tempt mankind. All demons will eventually be casted into the lake of fire forever

>>19602526
You... Didn't answer his question. I mean I guess,

>All demons will eventually be casted into the lake of fire forever

is kind of an answer, but it's more of a 'when' response than a 'why' one.

>>19602536
Well the scriptures doesn't really give the specific reason as to why god allows demons to attack mankind. However one can assume it's for spiritual growth and maturity. overcoming temptations and tribulations while remaining faithful to God.

>>19601541
>Abraham has two sons
>Ishmael is the patriarch of Muhammad's family
>Islam cites Jesus of Nazareth as a prophet of God
Come on man.