/omg/ - Occultism and Magick General

Do circles made from salt function well for summoning?

>>19588090
yes.

>>19588106
aren't they meant to keep shit out. I always thought salt circles was good for like keeping out demons and also snails

>>19588168
Summoning circles are meant to create a boundary to keep you protected ed from the spirit you summon.


Has anyone had success with string circles? They seem a bit flimsy and moveable to make a good base.

>>19588234

Physical circles are for scrubs. Just man up and visualize it.

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>>19588106
>>19588234
But what if the spirit returns after you have concluded your ritual and you are no longer protected by the circle?

What if the spirit waits until you are at your most vulnerable to stop by for a surprise visit? After all it is now familiar with you and your dwelling.

Perhaps this game is not quite a simple as many books would lead you to believe?

>>19588355
That's why you put the sigil in a box covered in wards or a big jar covered in Hebrew or your dildo chest covered in stickers.

>>19588355

It really is, it's just that most people aren't competent and common sense is so fucking rare it may as well be a superpower.

How many people here can see Auras/Spirits? How did you achieve that? Any tips?

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Previous thread:
>>19577532

Something I've been thinking about, from some discussion in another thread. A lot of magick seems to use Jewish terms, Crowley as well says one of the tools you need for ceremonial magick is a circle with the names of God written on it. I figure this means YHVH, but is this invoking the name of the thoughtform or just a placeholder name for the all, Brahman?

Given that, what I like to do is appoint titles that will most easily represent whatever I'm invoking. Using words I have a predilection for that will make the practice more natural

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>>19588376
>Sigil
>Hebrew
>Box
Assumptions...

>>19588355
>It really is
It can be, yes. But that depends on what you are doing and why you are doing it, no?

>common sense is so fucking rare it may as well be a superpower.
I agree for the most part, but it is usually the things we think we know and make perfect sense at the time that end up causing us the biggest problems.

History is littered with the bones of people that had it all figured out...

>>19588677
Dude, stop posting pics from Sumer. Those guys were terrible artists. Little children make better artwork.

bunmmituty

>>19588571
>just a placeholder name for the all, Brahman?

Do you mean 'the all' = Brahman?

>>19588571
Is the soul part of the body or is the body part of the soul? I think the answer is which viewpoint you find more realistic. The Eastern Brahman and the Western God have some significant differences. The idea of God is of a supreme universal power, so to speak, but your soul is separated from that. You could say the soul comes from the body. The Brahman is the universe, and your soul is part of the Brahman. In this case, the body comes from the soul.

The two are different. The idea the soul is from the body is very rife with individualism which would fit well with Crowley's belief. Will... and that stuff. The other wouldn't fit quite so well since there's eventually the dissolution of self. Within the concept of Brahman, there is only one star on a long enough timeline. Within the concept of 'God', you are your own star.

Someone else can likely answer better, and ultimately, I suppose it'd be best for you to identify with what you feel is correct.

>>19589622
Yeah, but if you disagree with how I used it don't get caught up in the words I chose but respond to the point behind.

I used Brahman to illustrate my point better because it may help other people get what I'm trying to say, but I well and could have called the all Mickey Mouse

>>19589659
The relationship between bramhan and atman varies immensely from one tradition to the next. Really depends on which sampradaya you subscribe to.

>>19589672
I hate having to use the terms 'Western' and 'Eastern', sorry. Still, I haven't thus far seen anything in Western/'God' beliefs that have the relationship apparent between the Atman and Brahman. To say the individual disappears is unlikely to be true for every sect that relates to the Brahman, but as far as 'God'... the soul is always distinct from 'God'. There's no merger. It's kind of hard to explain, but they never merge.

I dunno' if poster is using Brahman in the same sense I am, unless you are the poster.

>>19589659
I guess more fundamentally I'm just asking if you think the thoughtform YHVH has authority. Such as using his agents, the archangels as in LBRP to banish. It seems funny to me that somehow saying the name of God somehow works, like waving a cross at a vampire. Given that we chose the titles and invented the language anyway. Thus at one point, why even use already existing names or words, couldn't someone just manipulate the powers and feelings the words represent and skip the talking?

My main counter to that is if there is a material difference in the syllables used or equivalent terms in gematria. If that were the case, the names and pronunciations used would be quite relevant.

As always, regardless of what people say, I'll do what I think is right anyway, but sometimes I can get revelation by hearing someone's take on it if we both have enough power.

Going further, to be part of God is not quite the same as to be God. I promise I'm done babbling now.

>>19589694
I'm not him but probably all three (or more) of us would use the terms differently

>>19589700
That's why I said perhaps it is best to pick which one you feel is correct since you are willing something to happen. If you don't feel it's real then how can will it to happen? Your thoughts must match your actions. If you feel stronger toward 'Brahman' then that would be more effective then 'God' if we're talking about influencing reality with.. thought?

There are magicians who say fuck the rules if that's what you are asking. I'd imagine they blow off the rules because they simply are concerned with what they resonate with as the most effective force.

>>19589659
>>19589672
>>19589700
What is a soul? Ultimately, what is its condition? Is it a 'real' thing?

>>19589722
Well, damn... how can you will it to happen*. It's late, ignore my mishaps.

>>19589724
Read chapter 2 of bhagavad gita.

>>19589724
It's not quite the mind because soul does not equal the brain, and we know the brain is our mind. However, your experience with the soul comes from your experience with your mind. Explaining what a soul is would be a really huge discourse because there's like... 10,000 ways to interpret a soul. Different religions and beliefs have different ideas of what exactly to soul is... going down to atheists who may disregard the soul entirely as merely a fictitious construct of the mind.

In some beliefs, souls are recycled. In others, they can dissipate, in some it is immortal, and in others it doesn't exist altogether.

What type of soul would you like to know about?

>>19589722
Yeah, that's about where I was going. On the one hand, someone like Crowley helped by creating an (in his opinion) effective system to achieve specific aims. But on the other hand he himself built that system through borrowing, expanding, and understanding past systems and himself. I don't think he would have been as powerful (if he was actually powerful) if he had merely followed the tutelage of his own version of Crowley rather than build his own church.

>>19589666
Godforms or thoughtforms can be understood as both (or either) independent spiritual energies and/or internal psychological placeholders. (I would argue that the contents of our minds, subconscious processes and so forth, our actually meta-individual personalities which our ultimately alien and in many cases michievious or daimonic). Circle casting is common in many forms of magic. Usually some commonalities are observed, however. These are typically elemental and astral correspondences. You can use hellenic or vedic of egyptian or mesoamerican or whatever the hell names you want. Ultimately, even in polytheistic systems like magic, there is a need for an omnigod. YHVH may or may not have once been in a mere canaanite storm god but has since evolved to be understood as the expressible and inexpressible absolute itself.

Now ask yourself, why you dislike YHVH? The fact that the name can conjure such feeling in you is proof it probably has more power than brahman, no?*

*I am assuming you are a westerner in a christian society

>>19589732
>implyign
Go back to hare krsna if you're this basic

>>19589742
>It's not quite the mind because soul does not equal the brain, and we know the brain is our mind.
>brain is our mind

Holy assumptions batman, pls think a bit harder

Also you forgot this part

>Is it a 'real' thing?

>>19589700
Invoking jewish thoughtforms seems like it would be extremely counterproductive for banishing, because you might actually invoke a real spirit that might oppose your will.

It also seems to my layman perception that the LBRP only works because you *will* it to work. In that case, the invocations and the silly pentagram tracing is just unnecessary bulk for the weak-minded.

>>19589724
That's generally up to you to decide, if real or not, and how real. You could say it's real until you zoom out enough and see in the big picture it isn't. I personally see the spirit as the creative force of life. Powering us and fueling change and creation. But even then I differentiate between spirit and soul. I like Montalk's definitions, but I've been avoiding Montalk so as not to catch schizophrenia

Just contemplate and meditate until gnosis comes to you on the topics you want.

>>19589761
>is it a 'real' thing?
>fictitious construct of the mind...
>doesn't exist altogether...

That would address the question, "Is it a 'real' thing?" Some people believe it exists while others believe it does not exist.

>>19589761
>the purest form of Bakti
>basic
Oh please. You're just mad that our faith is growing, while you edge-master th*lemites are dying out. Seems like the new Aeon is your death-knell.

>>19589745
You likely answered your own question right there.

>>19589763
Does showering only clean you off because you will it to clean you or does going through the ritual of showering clean you regardless of will? The actions themselves have certain effects. You can't just discard the tools because there are different tools to accomplish the same goal. The lesson that should be learned is that tools are necessary. Now fashion one yourself or use one fashioned by another. But be careful if you fashion your own.

Forget this will working nonsense stuff. You sound like you're high on gasoline and chaos magick.

>>19589783
Well, I agree they were being rude... but there's no reason for us to be bashing Thelema because of the poster's rudeness. Bless.

>>19589783
>Oh please. You're just mad that our faith is growing, while you edge-master th*lemites are dying out. Seems like the new Aeon is your death-knell.

not even a thelemite I just think you're all seriously confused if you believe advaita doctrine

>>19589774
>fictitious construct of the mind...
>doesn't exist altogether...

you just conflated brain and mind so before you can accurately define both separately I don't think you can deliver accurate responses on 'soul' definition, besides just talking about what other faiths believe

>>19589784
Yeah, thanks. Going through the motions helps the thoughts end up where they want to

>>19589786
I wasn't going to bring chaos magick into this discussion, but perhaps it would suit them? It would seem to be a wee bit up their alley.

Any suggest for where to start in the library? Personally I would be okay witb anything but summoning shit since I don't live alone and don't trust myself enough not to fuck up somehow.

>>19589763
Will is important but I think there's something to do with the elemental / fundamental forces being invoked that actually has an effect. But when you use these I think you do actually interact with them solely through will and subtle sense

>>19589786
>implying huffing petrol isn't a legitimate form of initiation in native-american mysticism
How does vibrating jewish names clean you? Certain sounds have certain energies and I don't feel clean after vibrating Gabriel.

Since you're so experienced, detail to me how waving a walmart dagger around cleans the Astral space. Or even how visualizing a pentagram would have that effect.

>>19589797
That's because scientifically the brain and mind are related unless you want to live in the dark ages. On the subject of the soul, the soul will exist without the brain. Yet, at the same time, the soul would influence what we know as our mind.

I do believe in science, mind you. Yes, there are definitions of the soul outside my belief which I can only speak for based on what I've studied.

Why is this an issue to you?

>>19589813
Make your own rituals with whatever you feel comfortable with.

It works better than tired out repeated bullshit and whispering dead gods' names.

>>19589818
>That's because scientifically the brain and mind are related unless you want to live in the dark ages.

How up to date are you on the neuroscience of consciousness?

>>19589813
Why do you think hebrew names are dirty and vedic names are pure? Are you perhaps a stealth nazi?

Are you familiar with psychonalysis? The subconscious is a language of symbols. The dagger and pentagram are quite ancient and powerful symbols. No one said to buy a shitty wal mart one.

>>19589824
I kind of do. I vibrate Agni and visualize the room burning with fire until any astral baddy leaves.

I guess that dis-balances the elements, but fuck it.

>>19589832
Why do you act so triggered at such a harmless opinion? Does it have to do with your 23andMe results?

>psychonalysis
That's all I needed to know senpai. Hope you cool off.

>>19589827
If you would like to share your, or other scientist's, opinion about it, please do so. The poster is asking what is the soul. You are invited to share what the soul is. What is your theory? Remember, it's just a theory.

>>19589841
Well, if you are actually curious about the meaning behind the symbolism then Regardie's Golden Dawn will clear most of it up. But if you would rather pretend to be a pleiadian atlantean aryan who speaks sanskrit then that's cool too. We are all larping and God as the Dungeon Master.

>>19589867
Not that guy but thanks you've taken me one step closer to reading Regardie.

>>19589842
Mind=consciousness or the parts of which we are consciously aware
Brain=physical hardware the mind runs on
Soul=nondual self-active causality of perception and will

Hold on...with all the anger going around. Do we even know who is responding to who? We need to tone it down a notch.

>>19589880
Of course we don't. I think there's at least four people in the conversation but none of us could say who said what

>>19589875
Yeah, we'd be on the same page almost of the mind and the brain. The brain being hardware although I include the unconscious and conscious in my definition of mind.

As far as soul, I think your definition is important to the conversation. Does it fit my personal definition of the soul? No. (We aren't going into my definition since it's been discussed to death, and doesn't belong here.) There's a bunch of different definitions of soul. That's all I was trying to explain it the first place is you gotta' be more specific asking what 'soul' is? You can't just be like, "Tell me what a soul is?"

I'd just rather not have you be so angry at me.

>>19589874
It really helps clarify Thelema. Most people jump straight into Crowley and IMO he's good at grabbing interest but he leaves a lot unsaid and implied to be mysterious.

>>19589901
The joy of anonymity.

>>19589902
I just made up that definition of the soul. I am not the person who was angry at you. It just popped in my head so I posted it. Idk if it makes any sense... Maybe the soul doesn't exist like the Buddhists say. But I find Cogito Ergo Sum compelling too. Je es un autre anyone? Better yet, I [sic] am multiple, I contain multitudes.

>>19589939
It's all gravy if we're discussing the soul for it is the thing that nobody would truly know. I will clarify I am neither a Buddhist nor a Hindu. I just felt their ideas needed to be present. Everyone's ideas should be present. Everybody get in here...

>>19589867
I'm familiar with the symbolism. It's not deep or useful.

I can construct a very symbolic and incredibly ineffective ritual too. What good is that though? Nothing, that's right.

>>19589990
Eh... are you the one asking about drawing pentagrams? There's a lot of ways that you can approach the significance. I think the subject of will has already been debated. You could argue prayer is a form of magic, given the purpose to bring result, that does not require ritual. There's the approach of an almost religious perspective. There are those who truly believe in the existence of a supernatural, for lack of a better word, reasoning for their ritual. There's the butterfly effect sort of approach. The complex actions within a ritual might have a stronger effect on the future due to increased action, I suppose.

There's a chance that perhaps Crowley's writing just aren't a good fit for you. You should maybe take a more prayer-like approach to your practice then a ritual-based approach.

Unrelated, but I'm waiting on Ape to come yell at all of us for some reason.

>>19590037
Ape's asleep. Time to talk about Bardon :p

>>19590074
Unfortunately, I'm too busy doing homework. In fact, I really shouldn't be on this board right now.

Do tell us about Mr. Bardon though! He'll have even more to scream about tomorrow. Let's just take the thread all the way to the top.

>>19590127

Bardon's condensers were top-notch, combined with the visualization exercises and his educated philosophy, Franz Bardon was far more helpful to future generations of practical occultists than Aleister Crowley could have hoped to be.

>>19590074
>>19590127
Franz Bardon's pore breathing technique is about the most useful spiritual tool I have ever used. Whether breathing in energy directly from the Sun or Moon or just parasitizing off of Chad while sitting in the back of class, it's my go-to method for re-energizing myself.

Would highly recommend.

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links are dead
https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/19284759/#19289793
https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/19284759/#19290025
want text please

493?

What do you guys think? Spell or nah?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/13/business/dealbook/martin-shkreli-jail.html

>>19589069
It sure is Sumer in here...

Thanks to the anon who recommended Margaret Pearson's I Ching translation. The intro was informative and interesting. Didn't know she also made a partial translation of Wang Fu's Comments of a Recluse. I read that was also pretty awesome to read. Too bad a complete English translation doesn't exist.

>1. Are you religious
>2. If so, what religion?

>meditate
>meet inner self
>it becomes a girl and fucks me
>cream my pants

well, I ma never doing that again

>>19590620
I am very confused myself. It's as if I had some cycle in my mind that makes me turn to different religions. Sometimes I am attracted to Christianity, sometimes to Paganism, sometimes to the more occult stuff etc. I don't even know what I believe in any more. Every time I read something interesting I feel like incorporating it in my life/world view.

>>19590482
>hair
Pleb spell if so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0eyi0XS8DI&t=67s

>>19590763
So you just admitted to the internet that you fucked yourself.

>>19590810
kinda, yeah

a girl broke up with me a few months ago so I guess I am desperate for something sexual even though I consciously don't think so

>>19590341
you remembered! i'm impressed

>When you grow weary of saṃsāra which is by nature suffering,
There is no time to waste searching for fresh robes,
And towards the master, who embodies the buddhas of the three times,
There is no separation from a mind of yearning devotion.

https://pastebin.com/Rzw08FjN

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Anyone have Gemma Gary's "Traditional Witchcraft, A Cornish Book of Ways"?

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>mfw I'm talking in a group of likely CS connected individuals (published in Cauldron, cited by Mike Howard, publishing in the current at large) and ask someone to substantiate Cochrane's claims and the history of his Clan in light of Doyle's peer reviewed articles that quote Cochrane's family saying Robert's a liar and they all went as dead quiet as moonlight on a gravestone.

>>19591116
No.

>>19588355
>But what if the spirit returns after you have concluded your ritual and you are no longer protected by the circle?

Is a goetic likely to get pissy at someone if they are polite etc.

Anyway I thought the circle was more about empowering to summon rather than protecting oneself from the spirit.

>>19591136

Heh.

>>19591194

You can remain polite and still be absolutely in control of the situation.

>rather than protecting oneself from the spirit.

That is incorrect.

>>19588318
I recall some experiment done by a few dudes from OTO or maybe something else that was about substituting all physical props and elements with visualization. In the end they decided that such are less effective (may be their personal flaw or may be the fact that it's just hard to maintain perfect visalization of all those elements at once thorough the ritual while performing all other elements of it) and even potentially dangerous at times.

Visualization works as quick and dirty take to something simple. But if you plan to work with some bigger things, like actual entity evocation, it's good to have _solid_ safeguards (pun intended).

>>19591136
Your face is not smug enough given the situation, find better mfw.

>>19591194
Well I can guarantee a circle isn't going to protect you when a pissed off Goetic King visits you in your sleep 5 years after you pissed him iff.

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>>19591095
thank you

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>>19591506
yw lil kittum

>>19591136
Making shit up is a perfectly valid lineage.

>>19588035
Just reading the last thread after being away for several days. Surgo, do you realize that, while you SAY you argue belligerently in order to have your views challenged that you may find them to be stable or unsupported, you actually just get more entrenched in your own views in direct proportion to the amount you are challenged?

>>19588355
That's what the banishing rites are for. They clear the space around you as well as your "aura"

>>19591550
Every lineage makes shit up.

>>19591136
Mind giving me a quick rundown on how and why Cochrane is a liar?

I barely know anything about the guy but he doesn't seem any less legit than most of these other big name occultists

>>19589833
>Banishing with fire exclusively
Good thing that won't come back to bite ya in the ass

>>19590134
If you are anything BUT Chad himself by now, I'm less than impressed. Can this technique be used to absorb cannabis smoke?

>>19591484
No but a faithful regimen of daily ritual SHOULD help

What's the difference between a sorcerer, wizard, warlock, and druid?

>>19591749
druid's can wear light leather armor.

>>19591749
semantics

>>19591749
Sorcerer, Wizard, and Druid are not degrees of the Church of Satan

>>19591679
How so? Is burning everything to death not an effective method of cleansing?

Mind you, I don't summon spirits so I couldn't care less about banishing elemental forces in the ritual space.

>>19591791
>burning everything to death
Would you use flames to put out a fire? Would you set your house on fire in order to chase out an intruder? Not saying it can't work, but it's only going to be as effective as context and circumstance permits.

>>19591661
Chumbley covers it in more detail in Mysticism, Initiation & Dream. Not every lineage makes shit up like that, just ones that can't or don't want to rely on dreams and visions for the same effect.

>>19591720

If Pieman (Note: Paimon really fucking hates being called that), for example, takes an urge to get your attention, he will, even with a relatively extreme daily ritual regimen. Right mindfuck to be derping around minding your own business when out of nowhere you *physically* hear his god damned marching band fire up to announce his impending presence.

>>19591749
As you've been told, semantics, also roots of it. They usually stem either from different traditions, languages or/and cultures. For example, druids are associated just with nature but they were pretty much just Britain's nature priests and wizards rolled into one.

>>19591828
There's quite a difference between "get your attention" and "attack you in your sleep."

>>19591838
Dude, if he can and does do things like

>*physically* hear his god damned marching band fire up to announce his impending presence.

then nothing will save you if he really wants to fuck you.

>>19591828
>Note: Paimon really fucking hates being called that
Lol you sound as if you speak from personal experience. Greentext time?

>>19591858
>physically
Which means a third party had to have heard it, or it was recorded, as that's the only way we can truly confirm we are hearing something "physically." But even disregarding that... yeah, I'm sure *nobody* can protect themselves from the Lemegeton spirits. That's why everyone who has ever worked the system has died or been brutally raped by spirits.

>>19591882
>That's why everyone who has ever worked the system has died or been brutally raped by spirits.

You w00t m8

When doing Lemegeton work, should we use the incense that corresponds directly to the entity in 777? Or is it ok to use planetary correspondence for the incense (i.e. Orobas is listed under 22, but Jupiter is...21?)

What if I don't use a circle and summon the most evil and powerful spirit I can?

>>19591882
Also what makes you think they get mad when called? Why do you assume they will attack you or trick you? Do you think the 72 spirits are the same? Why would they come back? Do you know that working the lemegeton implies knowing how to "exorcise"? Do you know that in the evocation the incense is also an offering and that you can offer many things to them in exchange of whatever you are asking? Why are you trying to scare the anons?

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>>19591949
Uhhh...I-I...Was, uhh...responding to the assertions of >>19591828

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>>19591963
Sorry anon, I got triggered and just had in my mind the end of your post. My mistake.

>>19591981
No I hear ya. I actually agree...there are so many Goetia LARPers I sometimes wonder how many actual summoners are getting information from these people.

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What are you meant to offer to the Lemegeton for their work?
You can just offer them food and drink right?
How much would you need to offer them for say helping with a job interview?

Can anyone tell me what, if anything, is wrong with the descriptions of the astrological houses at the bottom of the page linked here:

http://solve-et-coagula.us/hermeticism/openingthekey.php

Thanks in advance.

>>19592004
>Wot iz OP?
https://pastebin.com/HhU18gCW

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>>19592016
I'm just wondering about how much I should offer. Is that a problem?

>>19592004
The thing is that evocation is not for newbies, in many systems they start working with goets and others spirits in the grade of 6=5 or equivalent.

>>19591858

Never actually sought out Paimon of my own accord in a working though I very often suggest him to folks who would benefit from his involvement, right man for the job and all that. Only a few spirits I've actively dealt with, Lucifuge Rofocale and Focalor being chief among them.

>Outta nowhere one day, jam band
>A wild Paimon appaers, camel, lackeys, with all the bells and whistles
>Zero fucks given, be normal self and greet with "HAYYYY PIEMAN-KYUN!"
>... intensifies
>Paimon has left the building
>Alrighty then

Still no clue the fuck he wanted and never cared enough to find out. Bit of a stick up his ass, from what I've heard, tho.

>>19591882

The weaker ones you can usually shoo off with a whizbang of some kind, but they're basically like bears -- If they really want your ass they're gonna get you. If they don't particularly care and are just curious/bored they'll fuck off about their way if it takes actual effort to get at you.

So ive wanted to get into summoning but I have 2 question 1 is it worth it. And 2 where would be a good place to start?

>>19592277
>Lucifuge Rofocale
I thought we were talking about Lemegeton

>>19590131
>Franz Bardon was far more helpful to future generations of practical occultists than Aleister Crowley could have hoped to be
pure bait, and this is coming from someone that thinks crowley's retarded. it goes to show how much more retarded bardon is, and his faggy cultist disciples that have a hardon for him.

>>19592434
Thank you for revealing your inferior intelligence

>>19591813
>relying on dreams for the establishment of a lineage
what could possibly go wrong?

>>19592459
i may have inferior intelligence but at least im not a bardonite.

>>19591796
Firefighters do this actually yeah, controlled burns are important to wildfire protection

>>19589842
It's not a theory, a theory has a substantial quantity of evidence behind it when used in scientific parlance.

Were talking hypothesis at best here, and even that's shaky. There is no empirical evidence for the existence of a soul.

>>19592483
Inferior intelligence, or perhaps autism, not for not following Bardon, but for not noticing the glaringly obvious ironic trolling that seems to have been involved/

>>19592495
>Firefighters actually do
>use flames to extinguish a fire
Uhhh...no, they don't? They use controlled burns to prevent fires from occurring or spreading, but I'm not aware of any cases of fire being used to extinguish flames.

>>19592526
A controlled burn is using fire to remove fuel sources, that's using fire to put out fire, the fire can't spread and it goes out

>>19592559
Removing fuel sources=/= extinguishing the fucking fire, anon. I was directly referencing the banishing of Salamanders, et al. but obviously everything on this board has to devolve into a debate about semantics, despite the fact that you have made too many assertions at this point to make the "semantics" excuse. Removing fuel sources means you are preventing a fire from catching or spreading. Not that you are extinguishing one by virtue of the flames you are igniting. Holy asshat.

>>19592641
Why would I want to get rid of salamanders? Of all the elementals, they seem the most cool. I like keeping a candle lit whenever I'm reading or shitposting, so I'm sure the feelings are mutual.

>>19592522
if you cant handle the subtle countertrolling, maybe you should see your family doctor about adult-onset autism, champ.

>>19592641
All forms of extinguishing a fire are about removing a fuel source, that's how you stop a chemical reaction. There's nothing semantic about it.

>>19592692
Right? Equilibration is wayyyy overratedd DUDEBROLMAO

>>19592711
>removing a fuel source
I mean, I guess. I think comparing controlled burning to remove timber and spraying water to ever-so-briefly separate fire from oxygen is quite a stretch, but whatever helps.

>>19592885
Just shut the fuck up. Maybe if people gave salamanders the proper respect, there would be fewer house fires.

>>19592711
>>19592900
Let me explain more...a fire can burn without wood. A fire CANNOT burn without air, even if wood is somehow present.

>>19592909
Yeah. Let's ignore the fact that you made an ass of yourself.

>>19592916
There are three people in this argument, in case you're too autistic to notice.

I am the guy why uses fire to cleanse my apartment from nasty shit. And like I said, salamanders > creepy ass gnomes.

I want to learn everything about magick, occultism and alchemy, what would be a good starting point?
I imagine I have to go through a preparation period first, maybe practice meditation for at least 2-3 months before anything more specific? Also probably nofap is a must I assume.
I would be really glad if you give me any books or materials or advice on where to start.

>>19588355
[spoiler]fat chance[/spoiler]

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Is he Jewish?
Is he Catholic?
Both?
Neither?
What's your thoughts?

>>19592941
>There are three people in this argument
I figured that out with my own noodle, anon
>I am the guy why uses fire to cleanse my apartment
Yeah, no shit. Like I said,
>>19592916

>>19592980
Alright, I'll play along.

What practical consequence is there for me if my ritual space (I use this term loosely) has too much fire? Mind you, I don't summon Demons.

>>19593044
Uhhh...are you trolling? The consequence is a lack of equilibrium, unbalance of the elements, etc. If you're about to ask,
>"yes, but what implications does THAT have"
Or some other such question, fuck off. If you can't answer for yourself, it thoroughly explains why you can't seem to understand why banishing exclusively with fire is not universally effective.

>>19593058
>unbalance of the elements
Oh, well no shit.

Show me what a great magician you are and explain what practical consequence this has. I feel clean and my surroundings feel clean. By nature, I seriously lack fire and this sort of environment balances me if anything.

And I literally can't think of what astral vermin isn't going to be banished by this practice.

>>19593073
>Show me what a great magician you are and explain what practical consequence this has

>If you can't answer for yourself, it thoroughly explains why you can't seem to understand why banishing exclusively with fire is not universally effective.

>>19593073
>And I literally can't think of what astral vermin isn't going to be banished by this practice.

What is Tejas?

>>19593078
If you had an answer as to why such an imbalance is so critical, you wouldn't be using a cop out.

Surely, you /x/ intellectuals would have enough experience to answer such an insanely basic question like "why is too much fire bad". Even Reddit retards can do that.

>>19593086
I want more Tejas.

>>19593105
>If you had an answer as to why such an imbalance is so critical, you wouldn't be using a cop out.
So first of all, I guess you missed the OP in this thread:

>
This is not a "beginner's" thread. The library was complied with the intermediate and advanced pracitioner in mind, who has hopefully experimented for a couple of years with any given system(s) and is seeking a more centralized and academic/scholarly resource than common occult websites (sacred-texts, hermetic.com) can provide. This does not mean newfriends are utterly unwelcome; far from it, however I generally prefer to interface with questions outside the realm of google, or concepts that are found in historical and cultural systems of magick as opposed to a "freeforall" of poorly conceptualized "new age" materials (i.e. spirit science).

Second of all, THIS is me:
>>19593086
If you STILL can't derive an answer from my posts, Idunno what tatellya

>>19593126
Like I said, it's so weird that you're avoiding a very basic question that even a newbie should be able to answer. Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if I have more experience invoking fire than you do, seeing as how this has been my obsession for like half a year.

It's almost as if you're just a bullshitter.

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>>19593175
1) Ever seen what happens to guys who miss leg day? Now imagine that on your soul.

2) Too much fire means it's hot and smoky and there's a risk for it to spread.

3) Six months? Look out everyone, we've got an expert over here.

4) >mfw it's been like ten hours and not a single person in that CS clique has tried to tackle my questioning of Cochrane.

>>19593175
> I wouldn't be shocked if I have more experience invoking fire than you
I mean, I wouldn't have been "shocked" if you had told me that before you said
>And I literally can't think of what astral vermin isn't going to be banished by this practice.
Then followed it up by not getting the reference to >>19593086
AT ALL. But it's not a competition. I mean, I realize I'm being an abrasive asshole. And I'm not even saying you deserve it.

>>19593198
>4) >mfw it's been like ten hours and not a single person in that CS clique has tried to tackle my questioning of Cochrane.
Could it be...because they've got NUTHIN!?

>>19593198
No one will because they all know how shaky their own foundations are.

>>19593198
To clarify, I never said I exclusively work with fire, and I'm pretty sure at this point that my 6 months of spamming fire mantras is far more than what this joker has under his belt >>19593208.

I am however aware that I am rather new, so let that be the end of this shitposting marathon.

>>19593198
>Now imagine that on your soul
Not that anon, but does this apply to planetary rites as well? My understanding was always that it DID, but in ways more subtle than the elemental rites would cause. Is this true?

>>19593198
>Now imagine that on your soul.

Bruv. That's deep.

>Too much fire means it's hot and smoky and there's a risk for it to spread.

WELL... I'd say it depends wildly. I can't possibly GET enough fire. It's like even if I'm all warm and comfy, if there isn't a serious amount of anger in me, shit isn't getting done.

>>19593237
What's your nativity?

>>19593238
KINDA. The problem here is that there is no such thing as "universal balance".

If you take your nativity into account, you can get a better idea of which aspects need to be strengthened/ managed better in order to fulfill your role.

>>19593230
I mean, it's not like there aren't a dozen other Trad Crafters that don't have his problems.

Cochranite advocacy appears, at this point, to be a purely personal faith-based claim. AFAIK nobody at the Cauldron forced anyone to adopt Current 1734.

>>19593240
>if there isn't a serious amount of anger in me, shit isn't getting done

This explains a lot about your general attitude loo. Also, can we say mars on the MC. Can't accomplish shit without burning rage say whaaat

>>19593257
Yeah. Also Sol in Mars decanate of Aries.

I'm just gonna throw out that working aggressively with one element for 6 months or a year or even longer is not imbalancing inherently. I did nothing but non stop water for like over a year. It was more balancing if anything, because of how fucking unnecessarily "airy" / "firey" I am.

>>19593280
>invoking water for a year
What method did you use?

>>19593244
Sun is in Gemini. Too much mercury and air with very little fire or water and some earth.

>>19593280
True. However, the original discussion, buried in a mountain of autism from all sides, was using fire to banish, exclusively.

>>19593309
I have a lesser Water invocation imprinted on my ruach. As a result, panties are dampened everywhere I go.

To address this guy tho >>19593073
There were definitely some consequences. I probably should have been a little more fastidious. Invocation of water is inherently banishing to air and for example, in the middle of that period I sustained a massive head injury to the front right side of my skull (location for the neuropsych kids), which left me with impaired cognition for months. I'm told I used to be wittier. That was the first thing ever though that lead me away from identifying with my intellect...so uh in that respect I got what I wanted. I think if I were to do this again I'd have framed it more in terms of "I want to gain these things that water has to offer me" and less "I hate how fucking air based I am let me get rid of that, water will do the trick"

>>19593309
Mixed. Primarily I chose a deity that I associated with the element and devoted myself to her. A form of Isis. So like a ton of invocation of Isis. Deliberately taking "purifying" rather than "consecrating" roles in group work that involved purification by water and consecration by fire (whereas my natural inclination is always to go for active principle stuff). It was cool, I like realized I had emotions. There were side effects though. I can't remember everything to be honest, like I said I got a giant head injury in there ha. Everything I did though I tried to invite water in, I forced myself to go swimming even though I used to fucking hate being wet (that feature seems to be permanently gone since doing that).

>>19593246
Re-reading your initial post, I'm going to assume that they either didn't know about the article or just don't like to talk about it. They probably have good reasons (and really bad ones but I'm playing devil's advocate here) like the fact that it takes me longer to drive across the state than it does for them to go from London to Edinburgh.

I also have a source that told me most Trad groups are either not as old as they say they are or aren't practicing anything like what great grandmama was. There's a lot of ego tied up in it and there was an implication that it was common knowledge. Take that as you will.

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>>19593309
Can check tho ol' magickal record from that time and get back to you with the tho.

>>19593425
>Trad groups are either not as old as they say they are
I mean, that's one of the points of contention.

Howard and Doyle state that the Clan of Tubal Cain languished in a state of near deactivation. Others associated with the CS Currents are seeming to state it was strong the whole time; I asked these cats for any further citation other than "trust me" and got zilch.

>>19593421
>even though I used to fucking hate being wet
Sorry 4 offtopic but has anyone who has ever been addicted to opiates ever noticed that opiates seem to cause this? I think Burroughs described Heroin as instilling some of the properties of the cat, in regard to water. I know I felt this way, never wanting to swim, going so far as to make me uncomfortable just when I showered. Thoughts?

>>19593445
I think it's interesting, because lineal authority is definitely a thing, and is significant in many respects, but it seems like EVERYBODY including the most well respected occultists, has to justify whatever they are saying/doing/publishing with a series of unverifiable "facts" and other spurious claims.

>>19593445
I'm beginning to think that trad craft is bunk. It's like I mused in another thread, witchcraft, real witchcraft whatever we take that to mean, is ever elsewhere. It is lies and secrecy incarnate. It can't be known but sure as fuck can be known of. I'm still working out all the implications of this line of thought.

>>19593558
>It is lies and secrecy incarnate
Almost like there's a word to describe this sort of thing...O...

>>19593309
>Sun is in Gemini. Too much mercury and air with very little fire or water and some earth.

Man, I can't imagine living like that.

>>19593445

I think closest one can get to a long-standing trad would be either Judaism, Christianity, or Eastern shit.

Can't think of anything significant that would have lasted the cultural changes in the west otherwise.

>>19593558
That's sort of the point. The smart and accomplished practitioners state that it is mostly something that happens in dreams

>>19592951

Secret Teachings of All Ages. NoFap, but you can fuck wimminz (just not your hand). Daily meditation and yoga/qigong. Read Secret Teachings, find the subjects that get your dick hard then read more on them.

>>19592951
>neuropsych
>persuasion
>psychology
>sales
>marketing

Then get psychotherapy for a while, until you're at a comfortable place, financially and emotionally.

Once you have those, go with magic works. Crowley isn't too bad a place to start.

>>19593709
That doesn't clear up the issue here. We have claims that clans are running without any proof that they still exist in any meaningful way, we have the issue of lineage everywhere, the outward face of witchcraft is all bullshit and bluster and the inward eye is blind. I can point to Aghori and tell you what they do and what they believe. We know the ins and outs of groups far more secretive in the distant reaches of the world. All we have about witchcraft are some old court records that may or may not involve some combination of a devil figure/the sabbat/folk magic/slathering yourself in tropane alkaloids. Oh yeah, and modern groups that reek of reconstructionism, don't exist beyond rumor or have completely divergent praxes.

It makes it difficult to make any headway when you can't be sure what you're doing has been properly vetted and all the evidence is vague and nebulous rumor.

>>19593967
To elaborate further, the very name Traditional Witchcraft implies traditions, but none are substantiated. They read like bits of folk and cunning craft with a neopagan coat of paint and there's no evidence otherwise. It looks more like taking whatever the greater society thinks is witchcraft at any given time and doing that.

Would you be willing to define trad craft as a praxis founded in being edgy and having hella sick dreams with a practical aspect involving ritual?

What is the consensus on vegetarianism? I hear so many Yogis pushing this shit and I'm curious if it's actually beneficial in a spiritual sense.

>>19594033
There are Anthropologists who have spent their entire careers studying traditional craft as a folk religious practice.

>It looks more like taking whatever the greater society thinks is witchcraft at any given time and doing that.

Where do you think the practices that define what a society thinks witchcraft is come from?

They come from actual folk religious practices. It's true there's a lot of reconstruction ism in contemporary folk Magick but practices like witch bottles and blowing on knots go back centuries if not longer

What's the thing called when you believe something that it becomes true like a being?

There's this meditation type that's giving me amazing results.
Basically I focus on sahasrara or ajna chakra as a meditation object and do rythmical breathing.
It's very helpful and it gives amazing results.

Which tantra or meditation system does this belong to? Or is it just a thing I'm doing?

>>19594055
Egregore

>>19594033
>>19594050
Here's an interesting video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTeSWstQ2Sw

>>19594044
I reached union with god eating meat and drinking alcohol and smoking tobacco.

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>>19594063
It never occurred to me to try hunting for Ginzberg vids on yt.

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The occult is bullshit. True spirituality is from non-cucked positivity. We are already perfect gods of light but, all of us humans have had our bodies possessed by evil/negative spirits. They are the reason evil exists on this planet in humans. They influence our thoughts every time we think 'we' have the desire to be evil. The evil that they've done to us is unspeakable. All religions are false because they fail to recognize this problem and were created to distract us. You can escape this by
>believing you have a soul
>imagine you're draining all negative energies and pushing out the negative spirits until it's all gone
>if the above doesn't work let all the negative energies and pain pass through you until it's been depleted, or do a combination of both this and the above

>If you are successful you'll become a god capable of creating and manipulating matter, shapeshifting and you'll immediately experience full happiness and mental perfection without ever being bored ever again
>b-b-but this is $cientology anon
No the only true part about $cientology is the claim that we are possessed by evil spirits. Everything else is just made up bullshit.

>>19594127
Nice pasta.

>>19594059
That's pretty standard bro

What do you all think of the idea of multiverse in the context of magic? Grant Morrison has his hand in the DC universe, which he claims he's trying to "bring to life," and which is pretty evidently inspired at least partly by Michael Moorcock's multiverse, even if he hasn't explicitly said as much.

Meanwhile, Alan Moore did explicitly say that when he laid out the cosmology of the Marvel Multiverse, he was drawing on Moorcock.

Moorcock himself in turn wrote about an eternal struggle between order and chaos and an "Eternal Champion" restoring balance so that neither would ever win, which would be the end of everything. The Eternal Champion is reincarnated in different times and places, in various universes, generally not remembering who he (or she) is.

Often, the Eternal Champion has the initials J.C.

This is interesting because of the obvious connection to Jesus Christ (though of course a number of significant comic book characters, such as John Constantine and Jessie Custer, both of whom are seen as representative of a kind of balance between heaven and hell) but also because in the alphabet, J is the 10th letter and C is the 3rd. 10+3 = 13.

13 is a holy number in Discordianism, which of course also focuses on a balance between order and disorder (though Discordians use the word Chaos to refer to an underlying truth while Moorcock uses it as a synonym for the opposite of Law, these are terminology quibbles).

But also, DC is obsessed with the number 52. There are 52 universes in its multiverse. The news station is channel 52.

52 cards in a deck of playing cards. 4 suits. 52 weeks in a year. 4 seasons. 52/4 = 13.

Roger Zelazny (13 characters in name if you count the space) wrote a book called Lord of Light (13 characters counting spaces). It was going to be turned into a movie but fell through. The set was used in a CIA operation to rescue American hostages during the Iran Hostage Crisis. There were exactly 52 American hostages.

Fnord.

>>19594425
>the idea of multiverse
I think the only feasible applications of this in physics have little to nothing to do with occultism in general. "Quantum" multiverses are highly speculative. Other spheres of spacetime floating through the void beyond the horizon of our inflation are almost mandatory for our standard model to be sensible.

In LBRP can I invoke the elements directly without using their archangel representatives?

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>>19594445
I don't know. Alan Moore claimed to have bumped into John Constantine IRL once. So did... I can't recall if it was Warren Ellis or Neil Gaiman. Maybe somebody else. Regardless, one such meeting led to him saying pic related, which was what led to it being put in the comic.

That said, it may be more useful as a symbol like any other, of worlds as possibility, or maybe as a way of, by creating other worlds and treating them as equivalent to this one, making this one more like fiction, and thus write-able.

All of this may rely on operating under either a chaos magic paradigm or a "postmodern magic" (a la Patrick Dunn) semiotic paradigm to make sense, or at least to be feasible, though.

>>19594471
Eeeeeeyyyyyyyyuuuuuurrrrrrrgggggggh. Yes. There are a few ways people have circumvented this.

The most obvious way is to sub in elemental spirits; gnomes, salamanders, river/sea spirits, etc. In Thelema you get the Star Ruby which relies on the Neoplatonic Archons.

>>19594475
>I don't know.
Gimmie one (1) experimental substantiation of quantum multiverses.

John Constantine being really real does not inherently substantiate a quantum multiverse. Only that he exists. And gives good advice.

I work in a Chaos paradigm, mate, I still don't find this concept applicable.

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>>19594487
>Gimmie one (1) experimental substantiation of quantum multiverses.
I don't have any dog in the race of whether they actually exist, at least/especially as normally conceived. I'm just curious about the utility of treating them as real.

Though if they do exist, it might be like in Myst (or, actually, in Morrison's work) where the connection between them is fiction.

>>19588035
This is a long shot, but does anyone know where I can download a pdf of The Language Crystal? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

>>19594579
"The book the jews don't want you to read."

Sound like shit.
Ain't on any of my usual sources.

Try an interlibrary loan request through you local uni.

>>19594477
What's your opinion on my using the platonic solids that correspond to each element as my representatives? They seem like fundamental principles of existence and have directional and elemental equivalencies

>>19594475
Why does Constantine have so many issues with such God forsaken art?

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>>19594425
>John Constantine and Jessie Custer, both of whom are seen as representative of a kind of balance between heaven and hell) but also because in the alphabet, J is the 10th letter and C is the 3rd. 10+3 = 13

fun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqukFWVCt04

"No matter what the spoken language may be, you can read hieroglyphs, a picture of a chair or what have you; makes no difference what you call it, right? You don’t need subvocal speech to register the meaning of hieroglyphs. Learning a hieroglyphic language is excellent practice in the lost art of inner silence. “It would be well, today, if children were taught a good many Chinese ideograms and Egyptian hieroglyphs as a means of enhancing their appreciation of our alphabet.” If you are able to look at what is in front of you in silence, you will be able to write about it from a more perceptive viewpoint."

>>19594506
>MYST
I adored that series of games and novels.

Is there a way to imbue music with the power of magick/the occult, /x/??? If so then how?

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Just received pic related and Liber Null & Psychonaut.

Good foray?

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>>19595510

Yus. Same principles as a sigil (Note: These principles can be readily applied to taste, touch, smell, sight, and sound). Except in this case you're converting your desired end in to an aural medium instead of a visual medium.

Can someone list the 7 realms of existance and their 7 layers each, in western occultism?
Physical(material, mental, spirirtual?...), lower astral, higher astral... or something like that.
InfoGraphic preferable.

>>19594044
Dont make it into a dogma but most people eat more flesh than is necessary. Your digestive system works better when eating predominately plants and eating dead animals brings its own karma.

>>19595758
>eating dead animals brings its own karma

Bullshit.

>>19595764
Have you tried not eating meat for a period? I recommend you investigate this yourself.

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How does one get practical results from this stuff

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>>19595781


Meditation and yoga/qigong yield fairly straightforward results -- Mental and physical maintenance, respectively. Rituals, divorced of the spiritual elements for the sake of practicality in this instance, are tools that can be used to re-program your state of mind. Regardie (and many others) was (were) of the opinion that ritual and magic could be used therapeutically to equalize a person so that they were "whole". Assuming you mean "HOW I GET LOTTO MUNNIES FROM INTERPRETATIVE DANCE AND SPOOPY SHIT!?", these things discipline your mind, strengthen your focus, and sharpen your will, like level grinding in a game so you can roflstomp bosses to farm phat lewtz. The stronger your will, the more intense your discipline, the more singular your focus -- The further you can fuck with probability to manifest tangible results in the system. Chaos framework~ Everything is just a game of probabilities and chance, by stacking the odds in your favor and arranging reaction chains you can basically do whatever you want.

>>19595810
I am now motivated to go through all the process and even the mundane aspects of it, where should I start?

20 minutes meditation a day? What should I focus on?

>>19595838
Add tatraka to your meditation techniques.

1. Observe item in the wall fixating your eyes on it, do not move your eyes away for nothing.
2. Close them when they are in thears and imagine the object with your eyes closed.
3. Reopen when your eyes are rested and repeat

>>19595838

>Eat a healthy, balanced diet if you don't already do so.
>If you lead a sedentary lifestyle, be more active even if it's just walking a mile or two a day.
>Spend 20-30 minutes a day reading a new book or learning a new skill.
>30 minutes of Shikantaza (single-minded, seated meditation -- Simply focus on your breath and keep your mind as focused as possible. If a thought occurs acknowledge it without fighting it then let it float on down the stream of your mind without further attention to it) per day to start out
>20 minutes of yoga or qigong per day. I myself use qigong, so that's what I'll cover~ Eight Pieces of Brocade, Dragon & Tiger, or Five Animals Play are my suggested sets to pick from
>20 - 30 minutes of visualization exercises per day. I personally find Bardon's visualization exercises (From Initiation Into Hermetics) to be extremely reliable for development of visualization ability. Disregard the rest of the book, but don't discount valid methods just because people autistically screech about a person (and yes, that *WILL* happen)
>20 minutes study of, and deep reflection upon a religious or philosophical text of your choosing (The Bible, Tao Te Ching, The Quran, etc) per day

This is what I consider to be a solid foundation appropriate for an initiate. Build the castle (Rituals, magic, etc) after you've poured the foundation and allowed it to thoroughly set; Readas: Don't rush on towards wizardhood for the sake of doing it, get your fundamentals down pat for at least 3 - 6 months (preferably a year) before you start fucking about, so you don't end up with an unstable structure.

I'd also suggest reading Israel Regardie's One Year Manual some time. Dead handy book, that.

I saw a warning on the book of the law saying to burn it post-read.

Is it legit?

>>19595894
>>19595855
Greatly appreciated, also what about eating meat? I go to the gym and keep myself in shape, so eating meat is crucial for my energy, but some people ITT argued it is bad for this kind of occult practice.

What is going on why is everything turning to shit rn did I piss someone/something off?? If so how could this be resolved?

>>19595543
LN&P is interesting, but don't try anything in it under any circumstances

-t Catholic

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>>19595936
The more suffering that goes into your food (enslavement, torture, rape, kidnap children, murder vs. harvest a part of a plant), the lower vibrational state it creates in you, the more difficult it is to reach the heights of attainment in your practices.

>>19595949
I meant to say don't try the actual rituals

Gnostic state/meditation stuff in it is actually very helpful in general

>>19595949
I don't believe in christianity.
I've actually experimented union with God.
And boy do I have a history to tell.

Basically you have to rise your kundalini, but don't follow the hindu religions because these gods lead to hell, it is as if religions of the world all led to hell and there was a god of heaven that receives you when you reach union with god by the rising of the kundalini.

>>19595968

Oh, fuck off with that bullshit

>>19595968
Attempting a divination with God attempts control, putting you on the same level/above him, which is basically a one way ticket to hell

I study the occult because it's interesting, but I know actually following through would be a terrible idea

>>19595977
**Him

>>19595936

Moderation in all things (amusingly enough, even moderation in moderation when appropriate). If you need meat, you need meat. Personally, I eat meat when I feel I need it, and minimize it in my diet when I don't feel I need it. I've never noticed a difference between eating/not eating meat during multi-month long periods, but that's just my experience. In my opinion, you ultimately gotta be true to yourself and what works for you rather than letting the dogma of others rule over you. Don't be afraid to experiment or rejigger things to better fit yourself. If one leg's shorter than the other, then wear special shoes to correct it instead of forcing yourself to wear "normal" shoes that completely fuck wit yo program. Dig?

>>19595977
The reason why you are still christian is because you haven't tried stuff that would make you change ideas.

I've been meditating for a while, getting used to not thinking. I am getting those weird feelings of nausea the longer I dwell in that state, like everything around me begins to shake. Also there is a feeling that my whole being is consumed by the universe and I quickly snap out of it out of fear of disappearing and losing myself.
Is that normal? Should I continue forward despite the fear?

>>19596001
I don't try it because my faith explicitly says it's a terrible idea and will damn me irreparably. Crowley, for example, practiced occult arts in spite of his original upbringing, he knew he was screwed (before the weird Egyptian crap, that is)

>>19593740
>>19593740
>>19593740
Can't recommend STAA enough. Manly P. Hall left dozens of hours of lectures on every occult subject and ancient philosophy, if you don't have the time to sit down and read (or the attention span).

>>19596009
>Is that normal?
Being consumed by the universe when you meditate, shaking like a madman and being nauseous?
No.
Wtf are you even doing? How do you meditate?

>>19596012

Thing is, many have been there and done that, tested your religion and found it false.

>>19596015
If you could test religion, there'd be no need for faith

>>19595929
Still waiting on this

Don't want to read something that'll kill me

>>19596015
I am using a simple breathing technique and focusing on that while noticing how thoughts and emotions come and go. After some time I get to a tranquil quiet state where I feel I'm one with my surroundings, but the nausea begins the longer I maintain it.

>>19591908
>>19591908
This is a legitimate question that begets the response of one with the appropriate experience.

>>19592910
Oxygen is also fuel

>>19596054
>I will spread harmony and the love
With pictures of hitler and visiting 4chan.
God of darkness and they are pretty aware.

>>19596181
Why exactly was that deleted? Pretty tame post, despite the Hitler

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>>19593439
I checked the record. Apparently I'd worked out invoking pentagrams by the very tail end of that period, so some of that. It was a year and a half, not a year. Ganges oration too, a modified version (not deliberately modified mind you, I just at a certain point got it wrong and kept doing it wrong, and now can't go back to the right way. I'm sure Nema wouldn't mind, I'm pretty sure she just made it up at any rate). For use in "all watery circumstances," as Nema puts it.

>>19596023
Been a couple hours, don't mean to keep bothering everyone but I really hope someone can answer

I reread the Principia Discordia recently, and the idea of Order and Disorder as forces that are both necessary and need to be integrated/balanced, stuck out to me this time. Are there any more in-depth occult texts that focus on this? Or even religious/magical systems?

>>19595929
You should burn it if you've got too much money.

I didn't, I'm fine.

>>19596014
>"duuude...atlanteans...and hyperboreans bro....root races dude....duuuuude"
hard pass

>>19596327
I had a PDF, which I deleted

Same idea I guess?

>>19595929
You should have burnt it pre-read, but you should check your municipality because
>burning garbage might be illegal in your area

>>19596360
Crowley may have been an ass, but he knew his magick.

>>19596354
Yeah. The idea being superstition.

I had a dream of my dad performing necromancy on my grandmother's dug up body. It was successful and she came to life. I immediately sensed there was something evil about this entity. She lived in our house with family for a period of time. She got along with everyone it seems until she finally showed her true colors and murdered someone. I remember getting rid of her somehow but don't remember exactly how.

Could anyone offer an interpretation for my dream? I've never dreamt of anything like this before.

>>19596354
>The study of this Book is forbidden. It is wise to drag this copy into the trash, then empty it, after the first reading.

Whosoever disregards this does so at his own risk and peril. These are most dire.

Where should I start with Chumbley? And what do you consider requisite reading?

>>19596390
I'm laughing at how ridiculous this sounds, but it's an interesting thought, seeing as so many read occult texts off the internet

>>19596413
Occultist are not wise, it's sort of the prereq for seeking wisdom.

>>19596396
>quoting Ape, resources have changed and expanded since. Start with Spare.

>>19596452
Here's the bibliography of all the strains of elaboration I can find in DBoE, from my like 80 pgs of notes:

>Western
Sefer Yetzirah, commented by Aryeh Kaplan (particularly chapter six)
Book of Enoch
Thunder: The Perfect Mind
Essentially all of Rudolph's Gnostic material with special attention to the Mandeans.
Chaldean Oracles of Zoroaster
The Black Brick (Complete Golden Dawn)
Liber 65
Liber 7
Liber Stellae Rubeae
The Vision and the Voice
AHA (Crowley)
Agrippa's Second Book of Occult Philosophy
Complete Austin Osman Spare (including artwork)
The first Typhonian trilogy (MAYBE the second)
Additional MSS XXXXX (Sloane)
Liber Asassiel (see above)
Sacrificial Universe (David Chaim Smith)
Kabbalistic Mirror of Genesis
Complete Magician's Tables
Strong's Concordance, Godwin's Qabbalah,Numberman.net, Bill H.'s tables, etc.

>Eastern (Near/Far)
Gathas/Yasna (or the Avesta, these are Zoroastrian scriptures. The material of most note is related to Zahak and/or various dragons)
A King's Book of Kings (see above)
“Yezidism: Its Background, Observances, and Texts”, I think some of the Yezid influence comes via the hymns in this book.
Anything that will give you a basic foundational understanding of Arabic astronomy/astrology/astrotheology, etc.
Kali Kaula by Jan Fries
Kaulajnananirnaya
Kiss of the Yogini
Triadic Heart of Shiva
Anandalahare
Hevajra Tantra
Shri Yantra and the Sidereal Astrology (Lokanath)
Tantraloka
Paratrisikavivirana

>Afro-Carib material:
African Divination Systems: Ways of Knowing
Way of the Orisa
Kindoki
Palo Mayombe: The Garden of Blood and Bones
Pomba Gria and the Quimbanda
Exu
At the Crossroads

>Sabbatic Background:
Xoanon and most of Three Hands.
All works of Carlo Ginzberg
All works of Emma Wilby
Various early witchcraft manuscripts, bibliography coming...

>>19596458
Wait, so you're saying I should read all of this before even starting on Chumbley's work? Holy shit.

In this order?

how do I make a guy think about me? whats a good spell for that

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>>19596458
>Anything that will give you a basic foundational understanding of Arabic astronomy/astrology/astrotheology, etc.
Have you found anything good for this?

>>19596485
Have you tried telling him that you want to bone him, that's usually a pretty effective spell

>>19596506
picatrix

>>19596512
no. I want a real spell please

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Hey Ape, know anywhere in Merry old England i can order this from, am I destined to bite the bullet for international postage?

>>19596522
>im a grill with autism and i cant speak to this boy i like, can you guize gib me a magic spell to make him talk to me?
"No."

>>19596528
why not? pleaseeee I really like him

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>>19596516
>picatrix
Oh yeah. I put that on my list after listening to a talk on the 4 royals but never came back around to it. Is one version significantly better than any other, in your opinion

>>19596545
Yeah, get a version translated from Arabic, not Latin.

>>19596528
I would just feel so rude and tacky doing magick to get someone to like me maybe I'm a moralizing piece of shit but

>>19596539
are you 12? talk to him.

>>19596545
>>19596556
aka this one:
http://krasiancientastrology.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Picatrix-English-Vol-1-and-2.pdf

>>19596526
It's going to be in the library soon enough.

>>19596461
nah hes saying that CS draws from all those things that ape wrote down. think of it as a reference list. you dont have to read all of those before chumbley. it's probably better if you dont read that stuff because if you do, youll realize the CS is an edgy-prentending-to-not-be-edgy, pretentious hodge-podge written by a bunch of nobodies, and that's no fun. better to think that CS is legit and larp along with the rest of the memelords.

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>>19596556
This is all sidereal degrees, right?

>>19596613
This translation seems kinda fucky tb h, pic related

>>19596790
What's fucky about that?

>>19596802
"If the moon...represents a constellation sign of a good human being clear of misfortunes and burning as we mention above."

Like what does that mean

>>19596853
>doesnt understand the esoteric meaning of an 11th century Arabic astrology book
absolutely haram

>meet a girl
>after a few dates she tells me I have a somewhat small head
>I reply saying ''as above so below h-hehe''
>awkward

>>19594610
>Sound like shit.
Your bias is fucking you over, Ape.

Your loss.

>>19594579
No, the people who own a copy are total cunts and refuse to scan it.

If you ever acquire a copy, I'll be eternally grateful if you could put it online.

>>19596997
unlike yours, right? go back to pol

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>>19588035
Might not be the best place but has anyone had any luck with birthstones?

Thinking of buying a necklace with mine to strengthen and protect my aura.

>>19596997
>my bias

Book says Hebrew for "Evil" is "Ra".
Meanwhile the actual word is רוע which is closer to "Riyach".

Latin for "Evil" with no declension/case is "Malus" not "Malum". Apple IS "Malum". Apple tree is "pomum ligni".

But I'm sure the bias is all me.

>>19596390
Tunis comment is NOT a Class A text.

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>>19596916
Pragmatic instruction obscured by translation issues does not an esoteric secret make

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>>19597042
Issa joke m8 read my post again

what happens after dead lads

>>19588035
No link to previous thread?
No link to archive?
Why?

>>19597040
>Book of literal lies says Jews and Latins are use language to deceive you and is recommended by NeoNazis/White Nationalists.

>"That sounds dumb"
>"STOP TRYING TO DEHUMANIZE ME, THE OTHER."

Bottom kek.

>>19597048
I just wanna make it super clear that only retards like Gunther hold the Tunis Comment as a Class A instruction.

That said I've never seen a harder truth than “Those who discuss the contents of this Book are to be shunned by all, as centres of pestilence.”

>>19597055
>“Those who discuss the contents of this Book are to be shunned by all, as centres of pestilence.”

Amen and amen. Wisest thing A.C. ever wrote.

>>19597051
72 Virgins if honorable

>>19594487
How can you believe in magic but not believe in an infinity of universes?

True the two aren't the same but its like a friend of mine said - 'I don't believe in father Christmas but I believe in zombies' - they are both ridiculous but you consider one to be even more unlikely than the other?

It all seems very arbitrary on your half

>>19597078
What if I have erectile dysfunction? 72 maidens would be torture.

>>19594678
It was a pretty long running series, from the 80s onto the 00s, so its been with dozens of writers and artists, not to mention it wasn't exactly the top seller, so it didn't always get the best people working on it.
>>19595929
No. Don't burn books. Only Nazis do that.

>>19597079
>How can you believe in magic but not believe in an infinity of universes?
1) I there has yet to be a validation of quantum multiverse.
2) I do believe that there are an infinity of universes, as per the "bubbles in the void" model, they are almost mandatory for the standard model of inflation to be correct and we have some indication of this in the CMBR.

>>19597055
An A.'.A.'. lineal head thinks the Tunis Comment is a class A text? Is the reasoning because the text itself makes mention of the comment-to-come, thus conferring like a transitive property of Class A-ness onto the comment?

>>19597085
In the Bliss-Oceans of Jannah, الله heals all infirmity.

>>19596539
Try going into goggle and typing out love potion/love spell, or a variation on that and then hitting the search button and seeing what the results are and find a spell that way?

Should you go into the light after death? Does your soul disappear(die) in it?

>>19597094
Don't ask me why Gunther thinks things.
He refuses OTO initiations because they break the Comment. The OTO's policy on discussion of Liber L ("Shut the fuck up") was created by Angel Lorenz, a now dead Guntherite.

>>19597095
What if I prefer non virgins?

>>19597098
nah u should remain in the dark

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How do I ask Thoth for assistance with my writing?

>>19597108
Liber Israfel.

>>19597042
Yes, keep pretending as if you have no bias at all.

>>19597055
>Book of literal lies
>hasn't gone deeper than the cover.
Dumbfuck.

>>19597111
>>hasn't gone deeper than the cover.
But that's all I need to indicate the author knows fuck about fuck of Linguistics.

>>19597087
Do you thing the author Konstaine books is a good place to start for a beginner? I mean I know its not high tier but for someone just starting and using it to build off do you think its alright?

>>19597085

Not women, nor male nerds playing M:TG; Genderless angels that never left the fold to serve as integration agents to assist your assimilation in to the fold. While I realize you may simply be speaking for humour's sake, your information is incorrect and doesn't do justice to the horror/majesty of what awaits those who earnestly believe. They are Borg, you will be assimilated, resistance is futile.

>>19597110
Other than the orations are there ritual gestures that go with it?

>>19597040
(you)

>>19597111
He doesnt have a bias, he is just sick and tired of pol stuff infecting non-pol boards as are a lot of people anon.

Please keep your anti-Semitic quasi- political bent where it belongs in the 1930s

>>19597120
t. linguist

And I see nothing wrong with simplifying Hebrew for the goyim audience in order to make a juicy cover.

>>19597132
If you haven't noticed, we're the future.

In 20 years we'll have book burning again.

>>19597127
Sign of Entry.
Sign of Silence.

>>19597124
>Konstaine
?
You mean the comics? No.

>>19597135
>Lying is fine if it helps my agenda but if you call me out on it you're biased.

Bottom zozzle.

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>>19588035
I got a joke for everyone here, Why was the shitty mage kicked out of college? [spoiler]Because he couldn't spell.[/spoiler]

>>19597124
Autism.

>>19597098

The light is the recycler. You will be dismantled in to base components, and then used to manufacture new structures. In the dark lies continuation, but in the dark lie too the Lost who are but ravening beasts long since mad and degenerate that will likely consume you and grant a worse fate than being recycled as you will be consciously trapped in nigh-eternal digestion.

>>19597140
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_asNhzXq72w

>>19597138
>be biased
>get called biased
Huh.

And like I said, a spiffy cover justifies simplifying an ugly ass Hebrew word.

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>>19597086
There was one that was so bad it poisoned the well for me, I couldn't read any Constantine after that, called Hard Time where he goes to jail. Appalling writing, weird, childlike illustrations

>>19597140
p-post more jokes

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Is it true negative ETs/entities are manipulating the jews to do their dark bidding on Earth?

How accurate is this picture?

>>19597138
No he was an author, wrote The Occult Truth-Vampires/Weewolves, along with a few other magic books. They seem to be sort of okish. I just thought since your so up to date occult/book wise that you might know if he is an alright place to start or not, sorry to bother you.

>>19597143
What happens after you are recycled? Do you lose your consciousness and personality?

>>19597147
>a literal liar spreading false agitprop easily disproven by a dictionary is calling anyone who corrects them biased.

Lowest bazinga.

>>19597153
I prefer the one with Soros carrot-sticking planet Earth in the face of the reptilian.

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>>19597137
>We
?
HA
You really believe that don't you?
Go back to your kek worship anon, im sure he'll help you with moloch or whatever Nazi-verse has made up this week.
>>19597140
I enjoyed that. Thread needs a good corny joke once in a while.

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>>19588035

Can someone tell me what this is? A friend just send me this pic and told its written by a german but it seems to be in latin, at least this page.

>>19597153
You can fuck off to /pol/ too.

>>19597155
He's not.

>>19597166
Do you have access to google?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleus_Maleficarum

>>19597167
I am just searching for answers, multiple sources say so. Are you a jew by chance?

>>19597148
Richard Corben did that. Yeah he has a really ''''unique'''' style, his people look like weird/ugly dolls. But some of his work is great - Neverwhere, he did a comic version of house on the Borderlands, but yeah any comic book series, especially a long runner like Hellblazer will have issues with off or iffy art.