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File: belzebuth.jpg (93KB, 399x452px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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Dear X/

I'm looking for a text, probably an apocryphon of Genesis, where basically the devils is said to have created all insects (also somes of them like flies and coackroach).

Basically this text take place just after the creation, god is happy and the devils comes and says that this is basically crap and he can do much better. God says "be my guest", then devil then create all insects, that are "legions", reference to baalzebuth and the corresppnding passage in new testatment.

I'm not sure thought that this text is even legit, that could have been a fake, rpg style. However have been looking to find this text for years now.

also if you have general sources, that relates insects to devil, and demons in general feel free to include them.

I'm currently writing a book on the image of the devil in judeo-Christian tradition, and this is something I'm looking for in relationship to the chapter on beelzebuth.
This sounds interesting. I too have heard of the association of swarming insects with Satan.
Doesn't insects (flies especially) play an important part in decomposition?
File: constantine09.jpg (126KB, 852x364px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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This is recurrent in pop culture related to demons, you can find this association in Spawn (Comics), The nightmare before Christmas and Constantine (Both movie & comics), but this association must find itself in textual references, and that what I'm looking for.

Belzeebuth, could be translated as "Lord of the flies", although this is arguable, this is however where the illustration I've included comes from (this is Colin de Plancy, Dictionnaire Infernal btw).

Yes flies are laying egg in dead corpse that turns into maggots. However that is a rational association you are drawing here, I'm looking for textual references. But thanks for your thoughts anyway...
Well bro. That proves that flies are a part of God's plan (if there is such a thing) and that would negate them being totally demonic in nature.

The ancient belief system did generally indeed had a classification of animals being pure or not, evil or good, and snake for example have been associated with the devil too in Judeo-Christian mythology (this is not universally true btw).

I recon that if you are a true believer, you must think that all creations comes from god, but I'm not here to discuss belief system of one and the other. Not even the subjective interpretation of good and evil. Following you're argumentation one should say also that Satan for example is a creation of god too, and that somehow he must be part of a greater plan... But that's not what I wanted to discuss here (although interesting and you could share your opinion on this subject in the thread on Lucifer for example : >>15328137 )

Again I'm looking for "sources", also textual preferably, and related to Judeo-Christian mythology if possible, that draw relation between insect and evil or demons.

This may possibly help your research dude.
Thanks, very "new-age" text, but interesting quotes from Crowley that I will surely use somehow. I'm a little bit disappointed that he do not reference at all his explanation on Hecate and the corresponding rite he is talking about, but I'm going to investigate this, got enough material to check this assumption.

Thanks man.
You're welcome. You actually got me interested in the subject. I see that I misunderstood what you were looking for in my earlier posts.

Reading up on the Scarab Beetle and different interpretations of Isaiah 7:18 led me to that article.
If the subject interest you I suggest also the online Jewish encyclopedia that is a treasure of references and point to countless textes : http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/2255-baal-zebub
File: teutonicmythology.jpg (324KB, 1280x1024px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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I found this in the book Teutonic Mythology. The devil supposedly takes the form of a fly many times. Although pic related is the only time it's referred to.
thanks, looking up on this brought me to a very interesting link where I also found the following :
>In 1662 so many people had died from the results of being 'pricked' that the custom was dropped and replaced by gentler forms of persuasion, such as denial of sleep. the suspect was put upon a wooden stool in the centre of the room so that she could not rest her back. her captors took it in tum to crossexamine her day and night, without respite. in addition they kept watch for any spiders, mice or flies, since they might be satan's agents come to help her.
>Alex Sanders - The King of the Witches
found here : http://www.hollywoodinsiders.net/occult/f/fly.html

Also the original of the text you are referring to : http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/buch/deutsche-mythologie-756/14

I always prefer Original version if I can read them.

Thanks a lot
Very interesting. I gotta get some sleep though. Will check in on any thing new you have tomorrow.
Found a lot of interesting quote in the above mentioned link, although each one would require further research....

>they walked the person up and down a room, one taking him or her under each arm, till the accused dropped down with fatigue. they carefully swept the room in which the experiment was made so that they might keep away spiders and flies, which were supposed to be devils or their imps in disguise.
>Encyclopedia of occultism and parapsychology, Vol 1

>you re not the man to keep the devil captive yet! enchant him with a dream s sweet imagery, plunge him into an ocean of untruth! but now, to break this threshold s sorcery, i have to get a rat s sharp tooth. to conjure long i do not need; already one is rustling and it soon will heed. the lord of all the rats and mice, of flies and frogs and bugs and lice, bids you now venture to appear and gnaw upon this threshold here where he is dabbing it with oil.

less interresting stuff but interrseting book

>although the origin of his name is uncertain, beelzebub shared the destiny of many heathen gods of beelzebub (dover pictorial archive) bells 25 canaan who were turned into demons when the jews began to filter in and developed what eventually became monotheistic judaism. baal was mocked by the jews as baalzebub, lord of flies, who created and controlled flies in the philistine city of ekron. but he was originally baal the prince, the chief god in the canaan pantheon. baalzebub appeared in kings 2:1 as the god called upon by king ahaziah (c. 850 849 b.c) to cast out demons. in the new testament his name was transformed into beelzebub, and was used to refer to the devil.
>Lewis James - Satanism today an encyclopedia of religion folklore and popular culture

>their chief, or rather their guide, for evil spirits obey no one, is beelzebub, whose name signifieth the god of flies, because flies haunt putrefying corpses.
>Mathers macgregor, the greater key of salomon, vol 2
>and he was told that he would have to keep thoroughly awake all night, to gaze fixedly upon the dead body, to look neither to the right hand nor to the left, and not to close the eyes even to wink. this was absolutely necessary because the witches were able to get out of their skins and to take the form of a bird, or dog, or mouse, and their craftiness was such that they could take the forms of flies and cast sleep upon the watcher.
>Sir Wallis Budge - Egyptian Magic

>as ahriman did he first create the predators of the earth, wolves, serpents, flies, scorpions, did his fire of darkness create the six archdaevas who bring wisdom and power to mankind, against the mindnumbing arch-angels of ahura mazda.
>The abyss and tablet

Still didn't find the text I'm looking for...
oh yeah here is the free book. just download it


your welcome faggots
Also found something, this seems to be rabbinic tradition, cannot find any other reference as the one below (only in french), there must be some older jewish text ferring to it:

>Quand Dieu eut achevé la création, et au moment où il s'applaudissait de son œuvre, il entendit derrière lui un rire moqueur. C'était Satan, qui se trouvait, comme d'habitude, au milieu de l'armée du ciel. « Tu aurais peut- être mieux fait? lui dit Iahveh. - Peut-être, répondit l'Adversaire. - Eh bien, mets- toi à l'œuvre, nous verrons ce que tu produiras. »

>Satan prit le reste du limon démiurgique d'où Dieu avait tiré les bêtes à quatre pieds, les poissons des eaux, les oiseaux du ciel et l'homme lui-même. Il le trouva presque entièrement sec, et lorsqu'il essaya de le modeler, tout se réduisit en poussière. « Cela pourra nuire aux dimensions de mes créatures, se dit-il ; cependant je n'ose puiser de l'eau génératrice, sur laquelle flotte encore l'esprit de Dieu. »

>II prit un rayon de soleil et anima cette poussière, puis il présenta, comme échantillons de ses œuvres, une mouche, un scarabée, une fourmi, une abeille, une sauterelle et un papillon. Les anges se mirent à rire.

>« Ce sont ces petits êtres, dit le Seigneur, que tu prétends opposer à ma création ?
> - La grosseur ne signifie rien, dit le Diable tu es plus fier de l'homme que de la baleine. Ceux-ci sont petits parce qu'ils n'ont presque rien de terrestre, juste assez pour envelopper, sans l'appesantir, l'étincelle de flamme qui les fait vivre. Vois à quelles hauteurs ils s'élèvent, par le saut ou par le vol, tandis que l'homme reste enchaîné à la terre, d'où il est sorti reste enchaîné à la terre, d'où il est sorti. Permets qu'une nuée de sauterelles s'abatte sûr un champ, et elles montreront que le nombre supplée à la force.
>Louis Ménard : Rêveries d'un païen mystique. 2e éd., Alphonse Lemerre, 1886
hey OP, I have thought about this kind of thing too... I have an intense fear of insects, they are terrifying and disgusting, it makes me think, why did God create so many nasty little creatures, what purpose do they serve other than to be nightmare fuel.
There is a verse early on in Genesis where I believe God refers to insects as "abominations".
There is no such thing in genesis, on the contrary since god is suppose to have created all living creatures. Even amongst the Jewish tradition insect, although seen sometimes as "impure" are respected, and the Talmud is full of consideration wetter or not nuisible insect shall be killed or not.

I have found another reference, although very Christian (close to Jehovah's witness):

Some people regard the common house-fly as comparatively harmless; but in point of fact it is one of the greatest disease carriers known.... One thing that tends to prove that the fly was originally created by the devil is that it loves every evil thing and hates every good thing. The odors that are most unpleasant to man,... are all pleasing to the fly....

>THE mosquito has a bad record. He it is that carries the germs of malaria, yellow fever, [and other diseases].... If you have a disease of any of the above varieties, the mosquito loves to come and bite you and poison you,....
>Then he goes off and bites some luckless chap and injects the germs of your disease into him. And if that does not show the disposition of the devil, will you please point out something that does?...

>The Japanese beetle is said to be, at this time, our country's worst pest.... Perhaps the devil made this one, too; it looks like his work...

>Probably the Lord made some of the useful insects. No doubt the devil made some of the others. The Lord is the better architect...
>C.J Woodworth - The Golden age (magazine)
Source: http://www.seanet.com/~raines/insects.html
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