Unacceptable design flaws thread

What, do you want the game to throw more blocks into the arena if you can't beat the boss with your limited ammo? You deserve to game over.

Now I suppose if you use up all the boxes the boss could do some very hard to dodge attack where it throws boxes at you. That would punish poor play while also preventing a fail state, but, uh, n-no, it's flawless! You casual!

Lose Runner sg-1000

If you fall into a pit, the pit does not close.

you have to reset.

No passwords to save
No timer to allow yourself to die.

>B jumps
>A attacks

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>>2750696
Kek'd tbh

The target is huge and it takes 3 hits to kill it, and yet this kind of thing wouldn't fly in a modern game. The dragon would sometimes hit the walls and drop more blocks or some shit, just in case

>>2750696
seems fine with me.

you minus well bitch about every game with limited ammo

>>2750706
Personally, I much prefer the latter option for any game I play, especially since I play tabletop a lot. Never put the player in a lose state while he still has freedom of action, instead, keep making victory less and less likely until you overwhelm them.

Learned the lesson the hard way when my played were trying to bypass a deathtrap in an old castle while playing D&D. Thief stole all the gemstones instead of thinking on the puzzle presented beforehand (I had made a short writing that mentioned every gem (By color) the players weren't supposed to pull out by describing bad things that happened to those that did, metaphorically), so not just one trap, but ALL traps triggered at once, and so for about five minutes the players were running around trying to figure out how to stop things when there was no actual solution anymore.

It didn't make things more thrilling, it just made them frustrating. So always provide the players with a possible win condition or just outright kill them.

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to unlock the final stage and the good ending, you must first get the "normal" ending, which requires you to get every item in the game (which would indicate that you are already getting the best ending), and AFTER the "normal" ending you have to leave the screen frozen for a full minute on the final screen of the ending credits. there is no indication anywhere in the game that you need to do this. that's like if the entire final scene of the movie was hidden... a full minute after the credits had rolled.

>>2751206
Well that's bordering on an Easter egg, I'd hardly call that a design flaw.

>>2750707
That sounds a lot more serious than the OP.

>>2750794
>you minus well bitch
>minus

>>2751206
>>2751553
yeah, um, what's wrong with this? i always leave games on that last screen to see if anything happens, and i think if i were to collect every item (though i don't know how hard that is in this instance) i would know what i was doing. games have put people through worse shit for the "good" ending, i would not call this a design flaw. this is more a matter of style choice, and the GnG series is known for rapetastic difficulty. this is an even worse example than OP's.

i'd have to say the way the stairs are implemented in the original castlevania games (I and III, haven't made it to the 16-bit ones yet) are really flawed. you could be going up, get to the top, decide to go back down for something, and press left/right to go back and end up falling to your death for no real reason. now THAT'S a design flaw.

I'm not really sure that I would call it absolutely unacceptable, but the only flaw of Mega Man X is that you don't start with the dash. I think the developers at Capcom knew this, since they made it impossible to complete the game without receiving the leg upgrade. (I figure they must have run out of time to come up with a new leg upgrade and redesign the stages, and instead said "This game isn't great without the dash, let's make the player run straight into it.")

I mean, it's otherwise a perfect game.

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>>2750696
wouldn't this happen with the big boo final boss in smw as well? I never even considered it, seeing that you had to be bigtime mentally handicapped to use up all the blocks without getting the three hits

>>2751762
Maybe I'm recalling a different game, but doesn't the screen scroll down, revealing more blocks?
I'm probably wrong.

>>2751781
nope if you dig to the bottom you fall through and die.

>>2751781
I think you'd fall down and die after the third row of blocks, not 100% sure either, though.

>>2751762
possibly in the advance version, not in the snes original

>>2751803
Escapable if you're playing with sonic & tails and you have two controllers

>>2751807
what do you mean? because you'd fall down and die you say?

>>2751781
No. In both GBA and SNES, it's three rows and you're dead.
However, the death is instant and painless. In the Mickey example in OP, you're left with a slow and painful death with the dragon. No pits, no nothing.

>>2752314
It's not that bad, the game is pretty easy and you only have three hit points.

>>2750696
>>2751762
it's probably harder to get rid of all blocks than beating the boss the legit way

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>>2751172
This is you, stop that.
>pic related

>>2752314
>exaggerating for no reason

>>2751809
No. You can't make Tails fly in S2.

>>2751809
Wrong, faggot.

>>2751803
Thank God for the Taxman including Hidden Palace there.

>>2751809
Tails didn't have playable flying in vanilla Sonic 2.

>>2752491
>vanilla Sonic 2.
Why did this make me fucking cringe.

crash 1's great hall
jump on gem platforms that are so small
jump on 32 of them to get alternate ending

>>2752330
It was a decent blogpost anon, don't be a dick

>>2750713
I pretty much cant play games that do this without an emulator. Gotta change that shit around.

>>2751803
There was a Sonichu game?!

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>Reset the computer
It wants you to press the reset button on the system. Who in their right mind would press the button on the system that makes them lose all progress?

>>2750696
Git gud, 5 year old me could beat the shit out of this game.

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>>2750707
>playing a Lode Runner other than "The Legend Returns"

TLR has a suicide button, enough said.

>>2758675
fuck off /v/, this thread is about design flaws, not how good x person is.

>>2759882
>people can not point out design flaws because a later game fixed them
why so many retards today?

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>>2750794
>you minus well

>>2759894
>its not okay when genre fix their mistakes over time!

You are a faggot if you want to play an inferior version play is an inferior version of another retro game of its own.

Same mentality as saying "I hate to play X because it doesn't contain Y" when it has been fixed in another patch.

>>2759887
There's 22 blocks and you only have to hit him 3 times, that's the same as complaining the game not dropping health when you are one hit away from death because you can't recover otherwise and have to die. In this case, the rocks are your lifeline.

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>Press the oh button to confirm
If you're releasing your PSX game in the West, Ex is confirm, Triangle is cancel. Oh is acceptable as cancel as long as it's labelled on-screen.

The MGS title menu must have caught out thousands.

>>2751706
To climb down stairs, you press down, not left/right. You could argue that that's kinda counterintuitive, but i don't recall dying for no real reason.

>>2751206
It's a Ghouls and Ghosts/Ghosts and Goblins spin-off, what do you expect you damn 13 year olds?

>>2756643
reported for 13yo

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This fucking thing.

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>>2750696
Forget the magnet beam and you can't complete the game.

Get into the boss room without enough energy for your special weapons and you have already lost.

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>>2761124
>using special weapons before fighting the boss
>doing this on a wily stage
don't call your mistake a design flaw.

>>2761137
It's one thing to liberally use your weapons and then have to fight the boss with less damaging weapons; that's on you.

It's quite another to have a boss impervious to all but one single weapon, even your mega buster.

At least Capcom made it possible to retrace Elec Man's level for the magnet beam

>>2760987
you need to press up/down to get onto the stairs, but once you're on them, you can use left/right, which i do to just keep moving once off of them. there have been times i get on, climb up with left/right, and step off the last stair without realizing and die when i try to go back down for something. i mean, a little dumb on my part, but falling off of the stairs and possibly dying because you pressed the wrong button is also pretty dumb from a design standpoint.

>>2761124
You can go back and get the magnet beam in MM1. Though it is pretty bullshit.

>Suck at video games
>Whine about the game being poorly designed instead of just admitting to yourself you weren't good enough

>>2750724
>The dragon would sometimes hit the walls and drop more blocks or some shit, just in case
The carts had little memory and devs had to optimize the shit out their games to make them fit. While such a feature would make sense, it was unnecessary as the boss was piss easy and it would have taken some space for nothing.

Text boxes that pop up out of nowhere and can be closed immediatly. It sucks even more if you can close them by pressing a directional button. Who does that shit?

>>2757617
Worse yet. IIRC, I think you need to be careful with how long/hard you press the reset button. Otherwise you really would lose all progress.

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>>2752330

Not him, but you're the shitposter. Keep on postin that shit!

>>2761137

...but it is? Having it susceptible to other weapons would have made that part so much better. Farming sucks too

>>2761124
>Forget the magnet beam

it's not even hidden. if you forget to get it, you're too stupid to even be playing video games

>>2763414

well first of all, that's not unacceptable. secondly, if you're too retarded to figure it out, it shows you exactly how to do it in the start up screen demo.

>>2763720
Did it mention it in the manual? Because I could easily see someone not knowing what the heck it is when they see it in the stage, or realize they need to go back and get that when they get stuck at Wily stage 1.

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>>2763419
Says the mega uber furry shitposter.

>>2760986

>oh button

It's the circle button, and many PS1 games used circle as confirm. In fact, most of them did at the time. The bottom button being used as confirm didn't happen until much later.

For example, SNES games exclusively use the bottom button as the confirm button. I'm assuming Metal Gear Solid was your first retro game?

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>>2763736
>Did it mention it in the manual?

>>2757617
Does that even work right on emulators?

>>2757617
The big issue with this is that Genesis Model 2s have the shitty reset buttons.

>>2764257

You really from the 510?

Got berriez?

>>2761137
No, fuck you. There's no indication that you need to conserve your crash bombs anywhere, and even so it's very unlikely that you'll hit every target in exactly the right way when you play this stage for the first time. It's literally the only part of the game where you need to stop and think 'oh, wait, a crash bomb uses this many bars of energy, so I can fire exactly this amount of them, so I -can't- destroy these walls if I want to beat the boss'.

It would've been acceptable if your weapon energy at least refilled when you die, but this is not the case. Can you even go back into the level to get your energy levels back up?

>>2751803
Came here to post this.

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>Unacceptable design flaws thread
There were no design flaws in retro games.

Every time there is something obtuse, counter-intuitive, downright broken and poorly conceived in a retro video game, it is never a design flaw, but merely an error of yours, the millenial. Loading screens in PSX games are challenging, FFI characters whiffing attacks after targeting dead enemies is strategic, pic related is perfectly easy for a child to figure out by himself. Retro games are flawless.

>>2763949
games in the west always used the times button to confirm and hut to cancel

>>2764585
>Can you even go back into the level to get your energy levels back up?

Obviously, you retard.

>>2764642
Rude.

>>2764650
You would already know this if you had actually played it, you're just jumping on the "Mega Man 2 had an unwinnable boss fight" bandwagon.

It even keeps the walls destroyed if you did happen to fuck up the first time, so guys like me know when idiots like you open your stupid mouths without knowing what you're talking about.

>>2764609
You had me up until Simon's Quest and that fucking tornado.

>>2764656
Or my memory is not perfect. This is a game that's over a quarter century old.

>>2751206
Heaven Firebrand would shit all over Arthur.

>>2763721
>well first of all, that's not unacceptable. secondly, if you're too retarded to figure it out, it shows you exactly how to do it in the start up screen demo.

Well fuck me, I was stuck on this section the last time I played SM two years ago, and I didn't know I was supposed to super bomb it until maybe a few months ago, nor did I know there was an attract demo in this section until now.

>>2750696
For me it's any game where the majority of what you do is just run around having to collect an insane number of a specific object go to the next area. I'm fine with collecting a few keycards but fuck the bullshit that was common in early 3D platformers I don't know how anyone can have the patience for that.

>>2764660
Didn't they intentionally put cryptic shit like this into NES games to encourage sales of players guides?

>>2761007
>>2761124
>not quicksaving every new screen
lol

>>2766442
Kek.

>>2764681
>blaming your lack of knowledge of on a game due to it's age
>posts on /vr/

>>2764609

Loading times on the PS1 were awful, but today's consoles have longer loading screens, not only that, but also have "installing" or "updating" screens, which take even longer. Millennials should be fine with the waiting on loading screens, it's older people who can't get used to them because of being spoiled by cartidge systems from the past.

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>>2750794
>minus well

>>2766196
probably not, with the devs/testers playing the hell out of the game and having knowledge of the previous iteration and what was included in that, they probably thought it made perfect sense. sort of an idea vacuum.
>do you really think they'll get the whole tornado thing?
>yeah yeah it's kind of obvious don't you think?

>>2766196
there was a simon's quest players' guide?

>>2763414
Nah. It took me longer to figure out that 5 missiles opened doors. By the time I got there, I was super bombing everywhere, just to be sure.

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>>2766514

not a dedicated one, but they had complete maps and a walk through in this.

the anon that thinks they made NES games cryptic to sell players guides is wrong though. they made them cryptic so you wouldn't beat them in a weekend.

>>2766729
I heard something like that too. Didn't Blockbuster strike a deal with some of the major developers to make their games stupidly hard so kids would rent them over and over trying to beat them?

>>2750696
You're given 22 blocks.

It takes three hits to kill the dragon.

The dragon is not particularly hard to hit.

Unless you purposefully screw yourself over by wasting every block, you will never have to kill yourself due to not having enough ammo.

>>2764660
>Simon's Quest and that fucking tornado.
I had and beat Simon's Quest as a kid.

Things were different then than they are now. Back then, you really only had access to the handful of games you owned, plus maybe a rental every weekend. This meant you were putting a lot more time into the same game. I put untold hours into Simon's Quest, and you know what? It was a lot of fun. As a kid, it was like a real adventure, and at times, it was really hard and you had no clue what to do next.

So what did I do? I mean, this was also pre-GameFAQs.com, so I was lost without a Nintendo Power subscription, right? Wrong. Kids used to actually talk to each other about video games and how to beat them. Even if you didn't have a Nintendo Power, somebody did, or knew someone who did, and they'd hook you up. And, again, it was basically the only game you had to play most of the time, so you'd try everything, including praying to a wall. If I remember right, an older kid on the same street had heard about the tornado and told me what I needed to do.

People give Simon's Quest shit now only because they can download thousands upon thousands of games for free, many on their phones. It was a different time and, for the time, Simon's Quest was good.

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>>2757617
Wanted to post this.

Pretty innovative, even if completely retarded and counter intuitive.

I mean, say whatever you want about how stupid it was, people still remember the game today because of it.

>>2760986
My issue is that I rented MGS from blockbuster a ton of times, but when I got up to the part where you have to find meryl's codec number I had no way of finding it since blockbuster used their own covers for rentals.

Ended up asking a mate at school who had a copy what I was meant to do, but this was after I'd taken it back to blockbuster.

I was pretty mad.

>>2771131
The X-Men Genesis game was good, though. And it came out right in time to capitalize on the animated series. People would remember that game regardless of the silly gimmick.

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>>2771131
>>2771258

you're probably right, I always thought pic related was the best X-Men game of the time (on 16-bit consoles at least), but I've seen very few people remember it whereas the Genesis titles, especially the first, are more remembered, likely because of the reset thing.

>>2760986
It was catching me out in MGS2 and MGS3, and I love MGS.

>>2771187
You call Colonel enough times, it eventually adds Meryl's number to the codec.

I actually went through every codec frequency.

Backwards

>>2771258
>The X-Men Genesis game was good, though.

I know, I had it as a kid. It was also bloody difficult. And I never managed to figure out how to pass half the puzzles in the levels; just used Nightcrawler to teleport past every door you had to open (like the one on the Shiar level leading to the spaceship).

Basically I used Wolverine through the level, then sat down and left the game like that in a blind spot whenever his health was low (he regained health slow), switched to Crawler to get past puzzles, then back to Wolverine when I was low on health again.

Also, that game was the only one I remember where Wolverine actually could get into a berserker rage. Not just by doing a qcf+PP special move, but actually going crazy during gameplay. He'd start attacking left and right at random, I think also lose health in the process. It was completely pointless, but the geek in me loved that they accurately translated such details from the comics.

Having your special moves tied to a power bar was bullshit though.

>>2761137
But the right decision show the left.

>>2751762
I think the problem is the forced suicide thing. It's clumsy. The fight you're referring to kills you once the blocks are gone. OP's fight would probably be better with that concept implemented.

>>2763414
Better be trolling.

It's baffling the amount of people who think bad game design is equivalent to challenge, the developers really have their work cut out for them when their audience basically accepts and rationalizes everything.

"Gamers" have always been the worst group of people, in the past or in the present.

Enjoy your kusogē, faggots.

>>2771357
I think you just felt like sating something cuz you aren't pointing at any game but telling people to enjoy "bad" games cuz I ain't using your weeb words. Are you upset some people are enjoying something you don't?

>>2771358
Judging by your post you shouldn't be using English words either.

>>2760986
>>2763949
>>2764618
In Japan X means cancel and O means confirm.

Here's the reasoning for the buttons:
Triangle - "Viewpoint" (camera button)
Square - Paper (menu button)
O - Confirm
X - Cancel

>>2771367
This. Have you ever played a Japanese game and got a circle for success and an × for failure? This is why.

>>2764609
>FFI characters whiffing attacks after targeting dead enemies is strategic

Man, when I found out what was going on, the game became so much fucking easier to deal with. One thing I definitely don't miss about earlier rpgs, although I wouldn't mind if a few newer ones brought this aspect back to add more strategy.

>>2771384

dank meme desu senpai baka

>>2771420
Go back to /v/. I legitimately got stuck on that part for years and couldn't get the level select code to work as a kid. That was the Sonic 3 final boss for me. It's poor design and I'm still mad about it after all these years.

>>2771420

these new filters are great desu

>>2764705
>>2763721
>Attract demo

Yeah, the thing is it doesn't show it until after you've done it, fgt.

>>2772028
Well, I'll be damned. Still, I don't get how people figured it out back in the day, unless they stumbled across it by accident. Then again, I was a 6th gen babby who was largely introduced to older games through emulators. I love older titles for their charm and originality, but they could be cryptic as hell at times.

>X is cancel, O is Ok/accept/yes/go

it makes more sense this way, even the symbols meanings match up.

>flaws
if you roll down the first hill on sonic (sms) with speed up and hold right you can go offscreen.

the mickey mouse example is terrible, once you know the pattern you can kill it with exactly 3 blocks pretty much every time. though I guess you do have to die. there are worse bugs in mario.

>>2771363
You seem mad, would you like a hug? Or you wanna wait for me to finish with your mom first?

>>2773112
Maybe they didn't figure it out, which is why there's a conventional entrance into that area as well.

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>>2773112
>, but they could be cryptic as hell at times.

Indeed.

>>2773142
>u mad
Nice retort mate, surely it means you're winning. For someone defending bullshit fail states you're a pretty sore loser.

>>2771384
This was the end of sonic 3 for me for years until the internet.

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>>2751803
That pit was originally supposed to lead into Hidden Palace Zone

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>>2773551
Was remastered for wii release or something but the only way to get to it on cart is via Game Genie and it's obviously incomplete

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>Need to make a relatively simple jump
>Camera refuses to lock into place and won't stop moving for no reason

Funny how this is still an issue in modern games like dark souls while SM64 and OoT didn't have this problem.

>>2773561
>>2761124
>>2761007
It's shitty, but the walls stay destroyed even if you die. Even if you die once, you'd have to be retarded to fail a second time.

>>2773565
>while SM64 and OoT didn't have this problem.

Bullshit

>>2774035
Amen. OoT has terrible camera controls by modern standards.

>>2771121
I heard simons quest the towns people were supposed to give you tips but there were translation errors so they don't really tell you the hint correctly

>>2773565
Shit, that was one of the roughest jumps in the game just for that reason. It's also the reason the Duel Towers was such a pain in the ass.

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you can pause whenever you want except in this 15 minute long boss fight

>>2774878
What? I haven't played M2. Why would they have such a limitation?

>>2773170
I didn't say "u mad" I ain't 12 you dipstick. I do sense a rustling in analysis area tho. Just saying....

>>2773328
Really? You must be an idiot

>>2774813
It's literally just a straightforward jump, but the camera does an actual 360 no matter what you do, forcing you to jump diagonally away from the damn block. Multiple times too.

I have some issues with the Wily stages in MM2. I think crash trap is a stupid boss in general. The alien only being vulnerable to the bubble weapon creates problems. I think there was also a part where I wasn't happy with the way they implemented invisible holes in the floor that you had to use the bubble to check for. Then I remember being really disappointed in how stupid easy the dragon boss was, but that's easier to forgive.

Maybe I'm too hard on it, but the Wily stages in MM2, and I guess the weapon balance to a lesser degree, really turned me off on that game.

>>2760986
Why did we even make that change in the West? 〇 as confirm and X as cancel actually makes sense. Why change it? Also creates problems when I'm like playing an imported PS3 game, since if anything in the game brings up a system menu, it switches to X-confirm 〇-cancel on that menu.

>>2775247
Why did "we"?

>>2750713
The most egregious example of this is the retro games on the 3ds shop. You've got SNES button placement, but the NES ports all use A to jump and B to attack, and not B to jump and Y to attack like God intended.

>>2776248

I have the 3d classic versions of Kid Icarus, TwinBee and Xevious, and I can change the button layout so I can use Y and B instead of the original famicom A and B scheme. On Twinbee and Xevious I can even set rapid fire adjustments.

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