Did they even attempt to balance smash 4? >Bike is spammable

It's called tr4sh for a reason, m8.

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>mfw I main Wario and Jigglypuff

It's a party game, not a fighting game. If you notice these things but can't do a fucking dragon punch in SF, you're retarded.

> why is this allowed?

Because every one of his moves has a billion frames of startup.

The only balance improvement they should make to the game is removing sonic and rosa.

>>315585389

because Wario is bottom tier and nobody will ever git gud enough with him for it to make a difference.

>getting hit by the bike

my neurons simply react too fast for that shit to work on me.

>>315585389
Honestly, I find more use in eating the bike parts for slight healing and giving him more gas than ramming. Anyone not asleep can see Wario's fat ass on his motorcycle coming a mile away and punish accordingly.

>>315585517
Because a bunch of autists can't handle change?

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>>315585789
>Smash isn't a fighting game

Why the hell do you post the same thread at the same time every time? If you lose to Wario you're a shitter, end of story.

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>>315585517
>tr4sh

>>315585389
literally git gud. My advice is to watch a video on a good fighter and learn the tricks to playing him/her. For example, you can kill most of the cast at 100% as roy as long as you grab them, then follow it up with a down throw + up B

>>315586567
Good fighter and Smash 4 are an oxymoron.

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>complaining about fucking Wario of all characters
lmaoing at you're life

>>315585389
Stop playing online.

>>315586624
>Look at my opinion guis

That only applies if I'm referring to the game as the fighter in your case anyways, I'm actually referring to the character you pick for the fight.

>>315586567
Down throw up-b is never a true combo.

>>315586970
I'm not saying it's a combo, it's a kill move.

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She was fucking savage prior to the first patch

>>315587110
And she's still overpowered

>>315586309
>change is automatically good
Smash 4 is the video game version of losing your job and becoming homeless. So a bad change.

>>315586328
Not that guy but it's true

>>315588534
Party games don't make it to EVO :^)

>>315588649
Mario Kart made it to EVO

>>315588905
For how many years

>>315588986
Keep moving the goalpost
You said that party games don't make it to EVO and clearly they do
how many years is irrelevant, the point is if they made it in

>>315588484
What is bad about the base idea behind the game play of smash 4?

>>315589290
>Game gets in once for fun
Vs
>Game that has been in EVO since 2007

Cry more FGC baby and keep to your SF2 clones

>>315589662
>since 2007
Smash wasnt an official part of EVO from 2009 till 2013, when it had to buy itself in.

Waft is actually super jank, and the most gimmicky move in the game

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>>315585389
>Every move KOs

>only decent kill moves are side smash
>has crazy amount of start up lag

>Bike wheelie slam
>takes forever to set up and impossible to land on any decent player

>Eating a bomb
>eating an explosive item makes Wario explode and if anyone is touching him they get blown away
>literally impossible to land and kills at 90

>Waft
>1 minute to charge
>only good reliable KO move
>Just fast fall Dair then half waft at 80% for the stock.

>everything else doesnt KO til 130% and has crazy start up lag so Wario relies heavily on set ups and your opponent making mistakes

>get gud

on a side note, post your Wario replays for me me to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt5NNAVMtpk

>>315589662
Once again, that is irrelevant to the argument that you brought up
Party games make it to EVO and that's that, also Melee hasn't been in EVO consistently since 2007

>Cry more FGC baby and keep to your SF2 clones
Funny thing is that I've played more smash Melee or Brawl alone in my life than I have played fighting games combined and I still don't consider Smash fighting games

>>315590606
also, Yoshi has better air mobility than Wario.
goddamn OP you have no idea what you're talking about.
If Wario's Uair KO'd 15% earlier, and the tip of his Dtilt tripped, he'd be the most balanced character in Sm4sh.

>>315590290
>jank

Fuck you.

wario is one of the more balanced characters in 4, git gud

Why would you care about balance in a party game? The important part is people can play their favorite characters with a moveset that represents them well.

>>315585389

Still having trouble with bike.

When did people stop learning in party games.

>perfectly read when an opponent attacks
>use counter
>they whiff

worst feel

>>315585789
So you're saying all Smash games are party games?

>>315593047
What else would they be?

>>315592661
If it was unbalanced then everyone would pick the OP/broken character's like in the Dragon Ball and Naruto games

>>315585389
>Best aerial mobility in the game after jiggs
5th actually.

1.Yoshi
2.Jiggs
3.Mewtwo
4.Roy
5.Wario

according to http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/AirSpeed anyway.
IIRC his air speed was nerfed from brawl.

>people arguing over semantics
please contain yourselves

smash can be whatever genre you want

at the end of the day the series is very popular in a competitive setting

>people call it a party game like it were a bad thing
>yfw a party game remains more fun, accesible, yet at the same time more complex (free movement, DI, %) than "real fighting games"
>implying /v/'s good at street fighter anyways
feels good man

>>315594161
yeah well in america squealing like a pig is very popular in a competitive setting

>>315594363
i hope they enjoy themselves

>>315587805
>"Let's make a character who has very favorable hitboxes, insane priority, and an immunity to grabs and projectiles."
>"Mr. Sakurai, that doesn't sound very balanced."
>"Oh, but we'll make them light and have a shitty final smash."
>"Sir, I don't thin-"
>"HAVE YOU EVER MADE A GAME?!"

>>315594353
Fun is subjective. Complexity doesn't mean good. Keep smelling your own farts though

>>315593525
How does that even begin to make sense?
Have you ever considered that most people like to pick characters they like despite of tier lists in any game?

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>>315592661
>The important part is people can play their favorite characters with a moveset that represents them well.
Fuck you, I can't.

The only thing I hate about Wario is his chomp
Shit's annoying as hell. You suddenly just appear in his mouth when your foot was about to hit his face in mid-air

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I miss his Brawl SideSmash and Nair. Why'd they drop his most famous move? That's like if they got rid of Mewtwo's Shadow Ball.

>>315592661
>Why would you care about balance in a party game?
Any game is ruined by something that's clearly overpowered. In a racing game it would be a car that sticks out for being ridiculously fast
Any game is ruined by dumb unbalancing.

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What do people think about dedede? I hardly see him competitively

>>315585389
>Did they even attempt to balance smash 4?
no. sakurai has said in interviews that he thinks competitive fighting is stupid. of course they didnt try to balance anything.


thats the real reason i stopped playing. the game is so poorly balanced in so many regards that i cant even play it casually for fun

>>315595046
suffers from shulkitis: horrid frame data aside from 1 or 2 moves

>>315595067
No Smash game is that well balanced, save for maybe the N64 one. And even then, Pikachu and Kirby run circles around everyone else.

>>315595046
Really?
He's not very hard to play as. His d tilt roll is fucking fast and even kills.
Not to mention his nair and his infinite d throw to up air if you can pull it off

>>315595067
smash 4 is easily the most balanced smash game as of 1.1.2

very little percent of characters are considered useless and the gap between the top 5 and the rest is far smaller than the other smash games, especially brawl

>complaining about wario when sheik exists

Sheik has always been the crutch character for shit players that need safe brainless moves but in Sm4sh it's just out of control.

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>>315595067
>it's been a year and basic bullshit still hasn't been fixed
Goddamn it, I just want Pac-Man to have grab that makes sense. It goes through people, has shit range, it can miss if you're too close has a shitload of end lag

>>315595218
Project M my dude

>>315595290
I'd rather deal with Sheik than Rosalina. Least I'm allowed to grab Sheik.

>>315595290
no that's pikachu in all 4 smash games

ness is the most brainless in 4

>>315585389
>Did they even attempt to balance party fighter game?
top;e;

>>315594751
You can get good as Dorf if you play him a lot and if your friends aren't smash 4 tourneyfags.

>>315595394
mods are not games

>>315595405
rosalina is way easier to deal with, hit luma till it dies then go AWOL on her

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>>315595384
Could be worse. You could be an idiot like me and main Mewtwo, who had none of his flaws from Melee fixed, and was given even more. And since Japan for some reason thinks he's mid tier, he's never getting a buff.

Rosalina is hardcore bullshit
I mean fuck, you win by doing nothing
The Luma is the only reason she's a pain in the ass. Her dash doesn't even make sense. Luma's dead, but it still counts as it being alive

>>315595478
I'm talking about how his moves don't represent him well. My heart was shattered after I saw the Hyrule Warriors Trailer, and Smash Bros. Ganondorf was still a Falcon clone with a silly run cycle.

>>315595528

>none of his flaws from melee fixed

are you insane ? He actually has a usable jab now, and a projectile reflect that works. Plus the general Sm4sh meta favors him.

I don't understand how many mental gymnastics you need to consider him bad in Sm4sh.

>>315595126
i would tend to agree, but i enjoy melee's "balance" for lack of a better word. casually i can choose just about anyone and have fun(dat pichu dou) and competitive i can focus my skills in a more rewarding way than smash64

>>315595218
overall though, smash 4 tends towards a more defensive play style. thats not nessicarly a bad thing, but personally it takes a lot of fun out of both the competitive and casual side. balance goes past just the characters and into the core gameplay mechanics with any fighting game, and the core mechanic changes in 4 feel awful to me.
>>315595384
it really is insane to me. the only conclusion i can draw is that sakurai really hates people playing the game in ways other than he intended, and therefore goes out of his way to make some things just NOT work. its crazy that one game should suck for so long.

>>315595528
I've found most people don't expect a sudden teleport on stage.
It's sounds retarded to do that, but the few times I've used him people were trying to guess if I was gonna teleport and they ended up going crazy

thank goodness they nerfed diddy

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>>315595662
>Lighter than in Melee
>Weaker throws
>Teleport has more startup and a new animation making mindgames impossible
>Shadow Ball doesn't damage while charging

Feels like they made his Side B work, and called it a day.

>i can draw is that sakurai really hates people playing the game in ways other than he intended, and therefore goes out of his way to make some things just NOT work
Bingo. He made tripping in Brawl, and look at this ingame tip.

>>315595638
Oh I see, sorry to hear that.
There was an idea kicked around in P:M to give Ganondorf an original moveset and transfer his attributes and moves to Black Shadow from FZero, which I would have loved because I like both those characters and I like playing as heavy CFalcon. Doesn't look like that idea took off.

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>>315595528
You can also main a character balanced and designed around using customs moves and ergo is completely screwed in the meta thanks to the competitive scene banning customs and now Sakurai probably won't ever give her major buffs.

>>315595662
Mewtwo is fucking garbage.
Are you just a fanboy of the character or something?
He literally has no niche or strong points. He's just slow and floaty.

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>>315595938
I also fucking love F-Zero, so even if Shadow was just an excuse to give Ganon a new moveset, I'd be ecstatic.

>>315595906
Samus is such a fucking joke in this game.

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>>315596047
With Mewtwo, they were really going for the Melee nostalgia. Same artwork, same victory poses, new voice is an attempt to mimic the old one...I really wonder if he was made to suck because Melee Mewtwo did as well.

Then I remember Roy came back with all the same aesthetics and sound, yet had all his issues fixed.

>>315596036

So megaman ?

>>315596328
What? Mega Man is a highly solid character in the default game. Certainly better than Palutena or the Mii Fighters without their customs.

>>315596328
>The only buffs megaman ever got were to leaf shield
>leaf shield was so fucking bad it overshadowed everything else
Jesus christ, cmon sakurai. He's got some framedata and hitbox issues as well.

>>315596615
Mega Man was strong as hell in the early build at E3 2013.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-hPRocg8Yw

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>tfw papa sakurai gives up on you

Character loyalty really hurts sometimes.

>>315596706
>leaf shield is practically instant
Why did they change it?

>>315585389
"I don't know how to face this one character so I'll whine about it"
Shield bike, punish bite, see waft set ups and git gud

>>315595676
>smash 4 is defensive

wrong, especially after 1.1.1

even before the shield stun changes, the two best players in the world (and still are), zero and nairo, are the most aggressive and offensive players

the rest havn't caught on and are still playing brawl

>>315596526
His custom moves are still really cool and it's a shame seeing them put to waste.

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>>315596776
>Samus was shit in Brawl
>Possibly even worse here
>ZSS was good in Brawl
>Top 5 here

>>315585389
Why not play Project M the most balanced version of Smash as of now?

>>315597242
Fuck PM Yoshi.

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>>315597242
I can't play as Mega Man in PM.

That's more or less the only reason though.

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>>315597423
my nigga

>>315597142
His customs are nice, yes. I'm just saying he doesn't really need them to work as a character much like Mii Brawler or Palutena.

Goddamit
Why does it take 20 minutes to upload a 2 minute video?

>>315596776
Didn't she get the privilege of having her screwattack fair and nair get buffed in the latest patch where no other characters were buffed with exception of custom moves?
Just stop with this bullshit
The last patch nobody got buffed because it was used to test the waters for the shield stun and then the real buffs will come
She will get buffed even more in the next one

>>315597632
Call me when she can B Reverse her charge shot.
Her signature fucking move can't even do basic shit that its clones can do.
It's not even stronger than other charge shots. It's just straight up worse than the rest for no reason.

The jab thing is stupid but that genuinely makes me mad.

So who is actually the absolute worst character in the game? Most common nominees I see are Samus, Mewtwo, Dr. Mario, Dedede, and the two not Brawler Miis.

>>315598051
>Dr. Mario
Seriously?
He's pretty good if you know what you're doing
>Dedede
I also do not understand

>>315597785
>It's not even stronger than other charge shots
Are you kidding me? of course it is the strongest charge shot in the game.
it certainly is stronger than Mewtwo's, Lucario's can change from pathetic to op so he doesn't count for not being consistent, and the mii gunner's charge shot is a joke

>>315598051

Zelda, Mii Swordman, and Palutena are my bottom 3. Dunno what the numbers say, but Dedede, Samus and Mewtwo are nowhere near the bottom imo.

>>315598641
Not strong enough to warrant not being able to do basic shit

>>315598896
Like what? killing? because it does that pretty well

>>315590606
tfw no replays

>>315598641
>of course it is the strongest charge shot in the game.
>Samus charge shot
>30 Base Knockback, 62 Growth, 25% damage

>Lucario Aura sphere
>35 Base Knockback, 69 Growth, 25% damage

Wowee, Lucario's is actually stronger AND it gets a boost from aura. And it has a hitbox while charging.
Samus' is actually worse in every way.

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>>315599835
I can post replays, but they're not Wario related
Everybody should just post replays to past the time

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Wario isnt even top 10 in smash 4

Op is a shitter

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>>315600329
Post more Wario

>>315599940

Lucario's is smaller and travels much slower

>>315585389
bike has 12% health, any move that does that will cause it to explode and damage wario, so use moves taht do over 12 and you now can hit any part of the bike to do massive damage to him.
>Frame 1
Try frame 8
get fucking gud

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>>315600081
Fuck it
Everybody post your replays.
I legitimately want to see how good you guys are
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InWblRBkEM4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDLEmcL3YgM

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>>315600630
Sure

>>315601283
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i56EwbcW54Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alQQrzGO4dE

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>>315601283
tfw no smash scene around me
tfw wanna be best Wario in the world

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXzsBx1vebk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt5NNAVMtpk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JimO2jsomeo

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>>315600081
DonkeyKong player here. take notes boys

Vs Luigi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCe3AylEz38
Vs Mario
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRNT2Wxq0NU
Vs Ness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Higel-lhR18
Vs Darkpit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxr5PnBznp8
Vs Youtuber Shofu as Pit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBHw15FV9Ww

im also up for a few sweaty rounds in case any one's interested

>>315585389
I told you faggots Wario was amazing, but you silly goyim didn't listen.
Too bad.

>>315585389
You forgot to mention that he has way too many meteor smashes.

>>315602248
lets go a few rounds.
gotta wake up at 4AM, so not staying up very long

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>>315602248
Am I worthy of being a DK player?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=upiW1CRdLtE

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the only way I want to buff shulk right now is to change how his stances work

first make it so you tap B once then choose the stance you want with a directional input

then we can talk about buffing his moves

>>315602486
add me bruh.

also
>captcha is click all bananas

>>315602653
i like your edgeguarding, DK is definitely top 5 in that category

>>315602812
room is made.

edgeguarding with DK? not really a great recovery to go that far.

>>315601283
oh boy time to shill my shitty ZSS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68oBpcfeVVc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dewHRQoytg

I really hope they fix shulk's frame data, I've got over 1k games with him and just around 100 with ZSS since I switched mains

>>315602661
that'll kill his momentum

all he needs is frame data fixes

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>>315592661
>why care about gameplay? Its just a fanservice game, it doesn't matter!

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>>315603097
wooo boy, theres a bit of input delay. do you not have the dongle?

>>315603683
there is a little bit, but i'm right next to my router.

I'm on a mission to beat every character on the roster (playing against people who aren't pathetically bad at the game) as Kirby using their power. Then I will most likely upload a video of all of them.

Currently trying to think of creative ways to win with Fox's blaster like breaking their shield (but that would consider them pathetically bad.)

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>>315603683
well, fun while it lasted.
Sorry if you got mad or anything.
GGs.

>>315604424
nah, i left the room because i forgot to take items off again. i went back in.

>>315603683
these things do not help whatsoever

>>315604597
hmm, well you can alter your rules when you lose a match, no need to leave the room.
i'll have the room open for 5 minutes if you wanna join again.

>>315602653
I hate how goddamn insane the recoveries are in this game.

>>315604597
also, suuuper dirty trick with cargo throw down on the ledge. no idea that would spike.
fooled me once, fooled me twice, but not a 3rd time, my friend.
such an odd move to tech