WHY SAKURAI

It's like there were three programming teams and each one independently went
>Right we need to nerf Meta Knight a bit, let's reduce his reach
>Right we need to nerf Meta Knight a bit, let's reduce his damage
>Right we need to nerf Meta Knight a bit, let's reduce his recovery

>Literally went from being the indisputably best character in the game to the worst character in the game

>>269366554
Is he really worse than Olimar? I mean his side B is still pretty sick...

He's still good, they made him so that people won't bitch about having to fight against him.

Based sakurai.

>>269366817
A little less weak than Olimar, him and Olimar were equally nerfed it feels like.

>>269365531
Everything has more lag, startup, hits less hard, has less knockback, etc. He really heard those complaints about MK being overpowered.

>>269367610
Did they have to nerf him THAT HARD though? At least let him keep his recoveries, Jesus.

Good. He's actually fin to play now instead of being an 'I win' button.

>>269367835
His recovery was the most broken part.

His recovery is still ridiculous you fucking shitbags. If you want a kill you just edgeguard with your fucking ridiculous recovery.

The Real Scoop

Anyone complaining about metaknight in smash 4 simply doesn't have a clue what they're talking about. The ONLY thing wrong with his current state is that the hitboxes for certain attacks don't match the animations, which is admittedly bullshit but there was no way they were going to give him a completely new moveset.

He is still a perfectly playable character, if not on the higher tier side of the roster.

>>269365531
>MK has a gliding Shuttle Loop in Brawl
>MK gets it in RtDL amd shares it with Galacta Knight and Dark Meta Knight
>It gets removed in SSB4
Huh. Wonder if Kumazaki will keep it.

meta knight is still quite good

you just might actually have to be good at him now

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Wario and DK took bigger hits than MK, and they were nowhere near as good. RIP DK, you are the new GDorf.

>>269365531
Do you really have to ask?
Seriously nigger?

As if the last 6 years didn't happen.

>>269369192
uwot
Wario can fly now and DK got buffed a ton.

>>269369672
Wario's smashes are much worse, especially his side smash, and DK has a lot more lag on everything, especially his Donkey Punch.

Since everyone is stronger in Smash 4, and shields are much, much, much more broken, DK is fucking doomed. He's like a shitty Ike, and Ike is already pretty mediocre.

>>269369883

The only smash I'd say got worse is his Fsmash. His Dsmash was hot garbage in Brawl, and Usmash wasn't much better.

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>Brawl-3DS comparison

>>269370000
Yeah, but Wario's Usmash is liquid shit right now, and Dsmash wasn't made much better. Plus, the Wario Waft is worse now, too, it feels. Much harder to land, and it takes longer to charge.

The bike changes also made the waft worse, too. Before, you used to be able to eat the individual pieces of the bike and charge faster. Now the bike has to be swallowed hole, and good like keeping it on stage after jumping off of it.

Metaknight is still okay

That being said, some of those hitbox nerfs are way too much
>Up special hitbox is needle thin, and you end up going right through people a lot and getting punished
>Tornado hitbox is the character, not the blade whirlwind spinning around him
>You can give people haircuts with side special
>Down smash hitbox ends two thirds of the way up the sword
>Dair hitbox doesn't exist

>>269367930
He wasn't fun to play then, and he's probably even less fun to play now.

>>269370320

His Usmash now is pretty much just Mario's, which is a big step up from that multihit crap that no one ever bothered with.

>>269370152
Christ that's bad. Did they change the properties at all or just nerf it?

>>269370584
Mario's USmash was at least good for combo'ing people, though mostly everyone just uses his Utilt nowadays, since it's the burning fire of desire.

Wario is also extremely predictable. He hits pretty damn hard, but it's really easy to counter him. Easier than Ganon, I feel, because Ganon can at least just Flame Choke into down tilt for an easy 40-50%

>>269370320
But now the waft can be charged by eating items, and you get healed by 1%. This includes both the bike and the parts before they disappear

>>269370335
He's ok, but his hitboxes are still broken.

If you're going to nerf the range that hard on his moves, why not just give him new attacks that actually match up with where his sword goes? It just doesn't feel right to have your sword pass right through someone.

MK is basically Roy now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kht7deE4Zyw

>>269370628

the hitbox is more at the front and bottom of meta knight's down air, rather than also being behind him

the comparison makes it seem much more extreme than it is

>>269370802

They're both not that great, but they're okay. You could SDI out of Wario's old Usmash, it was just pathetic. He isn't easier to counter than Ganon either, Choke into Dtilt isn't even a real combo. You can tech the choke so it won't hit you.

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>>269370152

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>>269371187

>>269370152
>>269371187

Holy fuck that's inexcusable.

I know that Meta Knight was OP, but this is like giving the finger to everybody who cared about playing as him. He was fun for messing around.

Maybe instead of nerfing Meta, they should have buffed everybody to match him, making a faster game

>>269371514
That's what pretty much every major Brawl mod did
They're pretty fucking fun

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>actually crying about balance and meta in a party game with zero (0) competitive relevance

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>>269365531
why not?

Nerfing Meta Knight isn't really such a bad idea considering how good he was in Brawl, but come the fuck on, his hitboxes don't even match his animations anymore.

>>269365793
you don't know how programming works

>>269371846
>zero competitive relevance
>holds the record of highest concurrent viewers for a fighting game tournament
Maybe you should git gud instead of playing games with just autocombos :^)

>>269371846
If you don't think this game will have massive tournaments, you're delusional.
That said, even at the casual level it's annoying to have your character suck.

>>269371103
I don't know how they would correct that without changing the animation. Having a cone underneath you with little lag is pretty powerful

>>269370930
>It just doesn't feel right to have your sword pass right through someone.

Meta Knight confirmed for Morrowind

>>269368660
what's really interesting, especially for Wii U is that Gliding is gone/taken away, but swimming is ok and back in.

were there really that many complaint on the gliding?

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>>269365531
am i the only person who thinks little mac is completely overpowered?

>>269367939
lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaG7yrw6pjo

It wouldn't be so bad if his animations reflected his nerfed range.
Right now, over half the blade does nothing for a lot of his attacks.

>>269372547
>am i the only person who can't jump?

>>269372547
His speed and super armor is ridiculous. You just need to get him in the air maybe even counterpick him, which is even more stupid

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>>269372547
Yes, you're the only scrub in the thread so far.

>>269372948
Which is good because being in the air in Smash 4 is suicide due to shitty control and huge landing lag.

>>269372948
>Little Mac doesn't have an up+B
>You can stay in the air indefinitely

>>269373053
>even Little Mac's reveal trailer shows that he has no air game
>"hurr going in the air is suicide"

>>269372547
The thing is with Little Mac is you CANNOT go toe to toe with him, which is why he's such a piss off

>>269371514
>Maybe instead of nerfing Meta, they should have buffed everybody to match him, making a faster game
But anon, that would mean the game would require more skill than Mario Kart, and that is unacceptable in Sakurai's eyes. The game needs to be so simplistic even your grandad can play it.

>>269371514
Meta Knight did need a nerf, but they should've just directed it to his range, speed, priority, or power, not all of them at once.

>>269373478
>party game is easy to play
>WOOOOOOW SAMURAI

>>269374182
>party game
Even based samurai doesn't admit it's a party game. Face it, nerd, it's a game where you fight people to compete to win matches, it's a fighting game.

>>269374380
Yeah i agree that smash tour looks like some serious buisness
no parties here

>>269374776
Look it up, loser, your Young Boy faced god Sakurai has said time and time again that Smash is in fact a fighting game.

>>269372948
Little Mac is shitty when HE'S in the air, not AGAINST people who are in the air.

>>269373383
You know you can only jump twice

>>269374947
yeh sometimes me and my bros get so competetive with smash tour we settle it in mario party 8 just to see who the real pro fighter is

I have no sympathy for broken characters. Good riddance.

>>269375190
>yeh sometimes me and my bros get so competetive with smash tour
How did you get advanced copies of the game, faggot?

>>269372109
what the fuck does a functional knowledge of programming have to do with the ability to rebalance the placement, size, and knockback/damage properties of a character in a video game.

>>269374182
>implying Melee is hard to play

Everyone knows the real nerf to MK is his sound effects.

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>Brawl Announced at E3
>Meta Knight revealed
>Hyped as hell to play as my favorite Nuntendo Character
>Brawl comes out
>Can't play as Meta Knight without being despised
>>Smash 4 comes out
>Can't play as Meta Knerf without losing because of his awful reach

>>269370152
>>269371187
>>269371438
God damn, that's worse than Roy in Melee.

>>269375392
looks like you've fallen for my ruse

>>269372109
i don't think he cares because he wasn't trying to make an accurate statement about programming.

>>269375127
>not maining Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Pit, Dark Pit
>not maining characters with good recovery
You can play other characters that aren't fox you know

>people think smash is a 'competitive fighting game'

>>269376382
Everyone has good recovery, even Little Mac.

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>>269376540
Yeah little mac's recovery isn't absolutely shit

>>269376439
>People can have competition with a single player game.
>A multiplayer game can't be competitive.

Does Sakurai even give a shit about Kirby anymore? It seemed like all the fanwanking he gave it in Brawl transitioned to Kid Icarus in Sm4sh.

>>269376829
It's better than most recoveries in Melee

>>269376540
>who is Dr. Mario

>>269375859
>I was pretending to be retarded

>>269376982
That's because there's no edge magnets in melee
Little mac in melee probably would've been absolute shit

>>269376881
I think he threw in a new Kirby item, and he gave Kirby some of the best stages.

>>269376878
Smash is a party game, not meant to be taken competitively. I don't even understand why it can get to evo.

>>269377382
>getting salty over my arguement victory
go back to super smash party 8, faggot

>>269376540

>ganondorf
>good recovery

>>269377754
>Look Mom, I'm trolling in the interwebz XD
Have you finished your hw yet? You have school in 12 hours.

>>269377614
Because it CAN be taken competitively.

>>269365793
>reduce recovery frames
>nerf

wot

>>269377614
>because I don't understand the mechanics of the game, it is not a competitive game

Okay sport

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>>269377913
>someone has a differing opinion
>H-HELP, ITS A CYBER TROLE

>>269378101
What was you opinion exactly? That you weren't "rusing" me?

>>269377506
>I think he threw in a new Kirby item
He didn't.

Green Greens is surprisingly faithful to KDL, and even if it wasn't Green Greens Ver. 2 instantly makes it one of the best stages in the game.

>>269377614
Just because it's not meant to be competitive doesn't mean it can't be played that way.

It's got a lot of potential as a competitive game, and people enjoy playing it that way- and that's all there is to it.

>>269377614
It is a party game, not a fighting game. Still, autists will find a way to make it seem 'competitive' by coming up with some sort of bullshit.

>>269378206
That smash is a party game
Are you even the same guy?

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>>269372547
>mfw 3 stocking one of my friends whenever he picks Little Mac
>he still has a 80% win rate online

Seems like people are just scrubs.

>>269378351
>I play the game in this way, anybody that plays it differently is an autist and is playing it wrong
stop

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>>269370152
It's like watching someone walking before and after a car accident or a suicide attempt. Fucking depressing.

>>269378004
He said "recovery", not "recovery frames".
Gliding was taken out, so now MK has to rely purely on jumping to recover.

>>269378381
>That smash is a party game
Sakurai said it isn't, therefore it isn't. That isn't an opinion, it's a fact. Do you call gifs "gifts" despite the fact the creator said its pronounced "jif"?

>>269370152
oh my god i'm laughing so hard right now

>>269379118
So then why does smash tour exist? Its only for pros, right?

>>269379486
Jesus christ, how fucking thick can you be?

Just because modes like Smash Tour are in the game doesn't mean it's a party game- and just because it's not a party game doesn't mean ANYBODY is implying that it's some kind of ultra-hardcore game for pros. That's just fucking ridiculous.

>this game isn't a party game, the dev said so
>WOW WELL I GUESS THIS MODE MUST ONLY BE FOR THE MOST HARDCORE MOTHERFUCKERS AM I RIGHT

>>269372986
this. the super armor is completely broken. i understand he needs it to land all those hits, but then to make the hits have absurd knockback and just insane amounts of damage on top of that is a bit fucking ridiculous. and even trying to jump around him is harder than it should be, since a lot of his moves can chance on the fly from a forward hit to an uppercut. he's definitely overpowered, but thankfully everyone sucks ass at playing him if you're patient and cheese him with throws and shit. I just really hate that you basically can't fight him like a normal opponent, making it completely unfun.

>>269379793
This, not every fighting game is super hardcore serious. Look at Clay Fighters or the DBZ games.

>>269380440
The thing I've noticed about Little Mac players is that they're either really crappy or insanely, untouchably good.

Either they'll wind up making dumb mistakes like throwing themselves off of the edge of the stage or completely wiping the floor with you. I don't think I've ever fought an "average" Mac.

>>269379793
So now it's both things? You just said it was a fighting game.
Make up your mind. Also try not to get too flustered over the internet.

>>269380708
I agree with that, although I guess I've been lucky enough not to run into very many of the insanely good ones. there's been one or two, but mostly no matter how good they are it's simply a matter of sitting near the edge and reading their moves. they always manage to get me up to a high percent but it never matters. the game is just too defensive for a character like little mac to be much good.

and again, the biggest issue is that either good or bad he's a horribly unfun character to play against.

>>269380969
It's a fighting game with lots of bonus modes for fun.

I guess Soulcalibur isn't a fighting game now.

>>269381147
I miss Chronicles of the Sword.

>>269381147
So you could almost say those fun modes could be played in a party-like setting, perhaps?

>>269381121
I used to run into amazing Little Macs left and right when the game first came out. Don't tend to see them that much anymore, though.

>and again, the biggest issue is that either good or bad he's a horribly unfun character to play against.
At least if he's good it's a challenge. Rosalina's just plain annoying.

>>269380969
see
>>269380706
Stop being pretending to be retarded, faggot. Not every fighting game is a tournament level competitive game. Have you ever seen a tournament for Naruto Ninja Storm or the Bleach fighting games?

>>269381303
Yes, but that doesn't make Smash a party game, just a game that's great for parties (like most other games with great local multiplayer modes)

>>269380969
>So now it's both things?
it's fucking neither, you asshat.

It's not a party game. It's not really a fighting game either.

Sakurai calls it an 'action game' and has never referred to it as either a fighting game (contrary to what anon said earlier) or a party game, though he admits that 'fighting game' is not a completely unfitting term.

What you need to try to understand is that there's a really fucking wide space between "ultra-casual party game" and "hardcore 'pros only' fighting game", and Smash is in that space.

>>269381346
if he's good it's not so much a challenge as a slaughter, really. that's the problem with a character who is meant to be overpowered with a huge drawback...if the overpowered part outweighs the drawback it becomes just overpowered.

Why do I have the impression that this game is unbalanced as fuck after following the usual threads here?
Do you guys cherrypick a little or is it really this bad?

>>269381656
It's Smash bros. The only not shit balanced game was the very first one. And that's because everyone had death combos. Except poor Samus.

>>269381627
Well i'm glad we had this discussion to finally decipher what kind of game smash is. Thanks, bud.

>>269381843
This right here. Every other character is broken except your main

>>269381656
Lots of cherrypicking.

People have whined about every character since the game came out, and a couple even claimed that zss and bowser were nerfed in the sdcc demo.
Of course, whining about Meta Knight and Olimar getting overall nerfs is somewhat justified, but otherwise, I ignore complaining about character balance.

>>269381303
So I guess because Call of Duty has leveling and customization it's an RPG too.

>smashbabbies still thinking their game is competitive

>>269381656

Real talk, there are about 5 characters that just feel better than the rest. Little mac is a scrub stomper and is buffed by FD being the only stage. Then there's olimar way down in shit tier. Everybody else are pretty middle of the road.

>>269382359
>no missles.
>no bomb jump.
>All you get is D-air tech chase spam.
>Still a tall bitch
>Still a shitty roll.

Speaking of, does Samus still have a shitty roll in Smash 4? I enjoy her Project M form too much.

>>269382459
You could say it has RPG elements. All games borrow traits from other genres and 'pure' games are the exception.

>>269382459
If you wanted to get technical, it is an rpg. So is pretty much every game in existance. I'm playing the role of a marine or whatever.

>>269381635
>Overpowered part outweighs the drawback
That's what really annoys me. You get all these people that are constantly "lol just throw him off the edge", problem being that if a Mac falls for it, they were bad (Most are) and you could have just beaten his ass midstage anyways.

Fighting a good Mac makes it very evident that the edgecamp tactic doesn't work. At all. You will probably lose faster doing that then just fighting him normally

>>269383032
yup. but fighting a good mac will get you killed no matter what unless you're just plain a better player, and even then you'd better hope you picked a decent match up against the guy or you're toast. and that's why I think he's a shitty character. nofun because you're either wrecking them without even trying, or you're getting your shit wrecked so hard your children are born with loose buttholes.

>>269382860
It's laggy but huge. I played a match against a Samus that only spammed roll and projectiles and couldn't touch them. Probably the most boring match I've played

>>269370152
>sword goes right through
>doesn't hit
They could have at least made the animation reflect the hitboxes.

>>269367471
I feel Olimar should have sat this round out with the Ice Climbers since the 3DS can't handle all the Pikmin

>>269383740
Or they could have made up for the giant pikmin nerf by making him stronger.

>>269383729
No. That's time we could use finishing up Lucina and Dark Pit. Have you made a game? Know your priorities anon.

>>269383740
I think the whole thing of handicapping the Wii U version because of the 3ds being shit should've been scrapped.

>>269369192
Are you literally retarded? DK is the best he's ever been by a mile in Smash 4.

>>269383950
If Lucina and DP were Melee styled clones at least I wouldn't mind any time devoted to them.

>>269382990
Well if life is a game, I guess you're role playing as a faggot.

>>269370152
>>269371187
>>269371438
>sword is clearly hitting

Who was the retarded who design his hitboxes?

>>269384138
They are Melee style clones. It's just that there are 2 types of Melee style clones.

Clones that play very differently like Ganondorf, Luigi.and Falco. And clones that play barely differently like Dr. Mario and Young Link.

>>269384393
Your lord and savior Sakurai and his obedient nip entourage.