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ITT the absolute worst parts of otherwise good games Pic fucking

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ITT the absolute worst parts of otherwise good games

Pic fucking related
>>
git gud
>>
>being this dumb
>>
>being unable to wall jump
>when the three guys explain to you how
>>
>>256312030

How did you ever get past the noob bridge?
>>
>hating the part with adorable creatures singing a cute song then teaching you the most useful technique in the game
>>
>>256312030
Walljumping is the most enjoyable skill in Super Metroid you fattie.
>>
>>256312030
I'm sorry, but you're retarded.
Super Metroid is a perfect game, it literally doesn't have a single flaw.
>inb4 graphics
They're still good.
>inb4 walljumping
Stop being a pleb.
>inb4 it's too short
Are you serious?
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>>256312030
Damn senpai if you can't wall jump properly then u need to step it up
>>
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>doing walljumps on keyboard

never ever again
>>
>>256315164
Curiously I don't remember having any major problem with walljumping on keyboard
I do agree controller is infinitely better, though
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It took me forever to realize I needed to power bomb the glass tube. The only part of Super Metroid that I had trouble with.
>>
Shadow Warrior in zilla's castle with the two black charging demons with the breakable walls only they can break. Not to mention the room cramped as hell.
>>
>>256315164

Figure out what to type and type it. ASD J SA J SD J

Annoying, but it works.
>>
>>256315116

>clunky walljumping
>damage during shinespark
>shitty sprint mechanic
>reserve tanks existing

Nah, Super Metroid has flaws. Why, it's not even the best 2D Metroid.
>>
>>256315513

>Shitty sprint mechanic
This is at least fixed by the control freak patch.
>>
>>256312030

You know what, I'll agree OP. Every game has to have a worst part.

First time I was down there as a kid, it took me a bit to learn how to wall jump consistently. Then a bit longer to get all the way to the top instead of settling for the middle.

Can't think of another point as low. Even getting lost in Maridia is fun because you at least get to fight and explore.
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>>256315150
I would fuck Jenny.
>>
>>256315513
>reserve tanks existing
I don't see why they would be a flaw.
>>
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>>256312030
>forced tutorials
>>
>>256315116
If only Metroid Prime didn't have that chozo artifacts bullshit and made the impact crater 8 timea bigger, it would be a perfect game along with Super Metroid.
>>
>>256315513
zm and fusion have DOGSHIT physics. enjoy having samus control like a fucking rock when you can get her to do anything you want in sm.
>>
>>256316014

yea just two zones for impact crater was too small of a zone.
>>
>>256312030
Sewers on Bloodlines

The zombie part at the first true crime.
The shitty puzzle in Ys:Origins.
>>
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>>256312030
Am I the only one who just spamed the bombs to get to the top?
>>
>>256315991
At least you can stab kids in the eyes.
>>
>>256316258

Yes. Wall jumping is far easier.
>>
>youll never wall jump like a god
>>
>>256314876
Hikari pls
>>
>>256312030
>not the quicksands in maridia
>>
>>256317287

Why did you have to remind me?
>>
>>256317132
Fuck off, Right, you fucking casual.
>>
>>256315321
Same for me. Unlike the walljumping, pretty much nothing in the game indicates that this is possible. I'm pretty sure I figured it out by accident.
>>
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>>256312030
>this nigga thinks walljumping is hard
I guess you can't shinespark for shit either.
>>
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>>256317562
It actually gives you hint, in a very subtle way.
There's a broken glass tube in Maridia before the game forces you to go back in Brinstar next to the other tube.
>>
>>256316834
That's a TAS, isn't it? Doing things like flipping slightly backwards into an attack you know already will be there to gain a small bump forward make it scream it, and shooting foes while inside of them makes it clear.
>>
>>
Is there even a single part of the game where you need the shinespark jump the Dachora teaches you?
>>
>>256315116
How about
>having to go around bombing random tiles in order to actually progress in some parts
>>
>>256315513
Actually none of those are problems
>>
>>256318596
If you want to reach some expansion near your ship you need it
>>
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Objective fact coming through
>>
>>256318596

There are a couple of items which cannot be obtained otherwise.
>>
>>256318165
it is a tas but those damage boosts are used in regular runs.
>>
>>256318165
Damageboosting isn't strictly TAS.
Folks like Zoast abuse it to high hell and beyond.

The precision on some of the shots while walljumping does seem to be indicative of it being a TAS, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKEwuHXGCVw
>>
>>256318165
Yes, that's a TAS. This is from zoasty's 44:11 run.
>>
>>256316834

>wall jumping is so easy, get gud scrub :)
>post TAS
>>
>>256312030
>>256315116
>Mother fucking Maridia
I don't know how this isn't brought up more often. The absolute definition of terrible fucking water section and it lasts A THIRD OF THE FUCKING GAME.

And the music... Oh god that shitty music.
>>
>>256321342
at least it has the easiest and quickest boss in the game
>>
>>256321487
All the bosses in the game are really fucking easy. I'd rather have a hard boss than another easy one.
>>
>>256316225
>The shitty puzzle in Ys:Origins

The one in the very beginning where you need the medallion/boost?
>>
Tho I'm sure sime one has already said this GET GUD
>>
>>256317562
>nothing in the game indicates this is possible
>the demo that plays if you wait in the main title showed Samus breaking that glass with the powrbomb
>>
>>256322563
Plus you can clearly see the platforms on either side. Finding Kraids lair was much more difficult.
>>
>>256312030
I figured out how to wall jump on my own, but yeah, it's probably the least fun part of the game, in that wall jumping just isn't very much fun regardless of whether you can do it or not. Of course, Super Metroid is so good that its worst part is still not all that bad in the grand scheme of things.

Also, what's up with the idea that the only reason somebody wouldn't like a part of a game is that it's too hard? It's entirely possible to hate a part because it's tedious or boring, not difficult.
>>
>>256322685
That was what made me decide to try blowing it up. It just didn't seem likely they'd put stuff there that you couldn't interact with.
>>
>>256315116
I could never get good at escaping the quicksand in Maridia. That might be more of a personal failing though.
>>
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All these grips about my favorite game of all time.
Why are people so bad at critical thinking?
I beat this game when I was fucking 7. Just a lower middle class black kid with no friends that lived to watch Toonami and play video games. Now, suddenly the world got an IQ nerf in the new generation patch. It's frustrating that my brain skips the trivial nonsense and gets to the solution where everybody else struggles with it daily. I'm just tired. Tired.
>>
>>256322563
Nobody watches those.
>>
>>256322563

Doesn't the glass tube have cracks in it?
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>>256323663
actually no it doesnt
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>>256322563
that part only plays after completing the game
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>>256323170
There is no such thing as something being at one state through an entire game/movie/book if it's well made. It's supposed to fluctuate from highpoints scale down then back up again you're just taken aback because you have more to learn after getting the game down mere hours ago so the learning is something you're not willing to slow down for.
>>
Maridia was far more annoying.
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>>256312030
That's like, the best tutorial in all of gaming, the game teaches you something in the most out of the way and non-intrusive way possible.

It does take trial and error though, but eventually something's gotta give.
>>
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>>256324039
>Maridia
>bad
That shit had the most atmosphere in the game, and it's enemies were straight up freaky.

Bbuuuuttt, there are people that always get angry when one world feels different
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>>256324390
its the layout and the platforming and water physics what not
maridia just isnt as good as the rest
not to mention those fucking sand sections
getting out of that shit is a huge pain in the ass
>>
>>256324390
People don't dislike it solely because it was "different". They dislike it because of the horrible underwater jump physics, horrible level design, horrible quick sand and horrible music that drones on and on for hours. I actually experienced physical illness during Maridia. I'm not even joking.
>>
>>256320392

more like

>you will never perform as good as a TAS

it's more of a meloncolic post rather than an attack of some sort. /v/ is so defensive these days.
>>
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>>256315321
If I remember correctly, that only works outside the tube, right?
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>>256324048
And then Justin Bailey was a tired housewife.
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>>256324741
no it works inside to
thats how i always get in there
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>>256315321
>go through here
>notice small platform outside the glass
>"I bet I can get out there somehow"
>try various things
>"probably something i'll get to do later"
>get power bomb
>come back
>destroy the shit out of the tube

This was on my first ever playthrough too

You dumb
>>
some emulators do weird stuff with the wall jump, that's why people have trouble. if you go back and play it on snes it just werks, but emulated it can be kinda wonky.
>>
>>256315116
That's not true. It has very very few flaws.

>using select to toggle through the top menu was annoying and usually interrupted the flow of gameplay
>having a dedicated button for running wasn't necessary since you're holding it down all the time anyway
>it would have been better with an actual final boss fight
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>>256324590
>>256324652
I guess my taste is just different, the music makes that atmosphere which I love. And having to deal with quicksand and confusing level design is the challenge of the whole thing. This is a game about exploration after all, but I understand that people draw the line at some things.
>>
>>256324652
>They dislike it because of the horrible underwater jump physics

was easy once you got used to it though?

>horrible level design

what was bad about it?

>and horrible music that drones on and on for hours

maridia had the best music though you fuck
>>
>>256325096
The problem is that its all just really annoying to deal with
its not that bad if you know what you are doing but things like the sand pushing you down in the sand segmants and parts of the level where you almost have to know where to shoot the grappling hook make it incredibly irritating to go through for most people on early playthroughs
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>>256324798
Huh, I swore that when I replayed the game, I couldn't get it to work inside, hence you can't get into Maridia early since the tube is well before that segment of the game, maybe I was just doing it wrong tho.
>>
>>256325384
its a really stupid idea to get in there early unless you are good at sequence breaking but yeah you totally can
>>
>>256324652
>horrible
>horrible
>horrible
>horrible
Could you be more specific? Do you have another word?

The underwater jump physics are completely manageable once you get used to them. You can even use them to your advantage once you git gud.

Saying the level design is horrible is just subjective until you say which parts are badly designed. I'd say it's at least on par with the rest of the game.

The quicksand, like the jump physics, is only a detriment if you're not good. You shouldn't be getting stuck in quicksand at any point after your first playthrough.

And the horrible music is, again, subjective. I like the music.
>>
>>256315321
>exit wrecked ship the intended way instead of back tracking
>come across an already broken tube
>think about other tube
>drop payload on tube
I figured this out when I was four. No excuses.
>>
>>256324824

I'm playing it on Wii U and it's a bitch and a half to pull off.
>>
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>>256325498
Well damn, something like that has to be intentional sequence breaking, but that's fucking massive. Not sure if nintendo even thought it would be useful for more than a sneak peak.
>>
>>256323809
I can't count the amount of times I've played through Super Metroid, there is no question I am completely capable of wall jumping, and learning how to do it hasn't been an issue since the first time. But that part is always the least fun section of the game time and time again. It's just not a very fun activity.

Like, imagine Super Metroid, or any game for that matter, had you stop and count gravel at one part instead. Is it a confusing goal? No. Hard to learn? No. Particularly difficult? No. Fun? Also no. Gravel counting would be the worst part of the game for reasons that had nothing to do with being difficult to do and/or learn. Similarly, wall jumping is also just not a very fun activity. I can nail it your first try and all that means is that good, I got that part over with faster.

>>256324652
Actually, I liked its music alright and as far as overall feel goes, its my favorite part of the game. Regarding the slooowww water stuff though, yeah, I could do without that.
>>
>>256325898
i think it was ment to fuck with people because if its your first playthrough and you do that too early then its hard as shit to get out
especially since you have to go through that tube a few times before getting the gravity suit
>>
>>256314876
>Explain
>Guys
They're animals for one
and they don't explain shit they just do it which implies you can do it but it doesn't telly ou how.
>>
>>256316258
I did
then fall to the bottom again by mistake
>>
>>256318792
>>256315513
>>256315116
Walljumping is a huuuuuge problem. but the rest aren't. It's clunky as shit when the rest of teh game is so smooth.
>>
>>256326282
Is this your first time playing a 2D Metroid?
>>
>>256326410
wall jumping isnt that bad
its not even that fimmicky its just really precise and you dont even NEED it
the only place its required is not only optional but little critters show you how to do it
>>
>>256326096
First of all, wall-jumping is a skill, counting gravel is not.

Second, saying you have to "stop and count gravel" is a horrible analogy. That's a rote task which interrupts gameplay. Wall-jumping is a means of locomotion.

Seriously, you are being a bitch about this. After a few playthroughs you should be down the tunnel, get the the energy tank, get the super missile tank, walk past the etecoons and be back on your way in under sixty seconds.
>>
>>256326551
>wall jumping isnt that bad
It is.
Like you said it is precise, extremely precise.
>the only place its required is not only optional but little critters show you how to do it
In a game about exploration?

Yeah, no.
>>
>>256326715
get out millennial scum
>>
>>256326715
i think there is like a missle tank or two down there and again the fact that its precise (not extremely precise just enough to have to get used to) doesnt mean its bad
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>>256312030
People had trouble with this?

I hope this isn't an "I was only pretending to be retarded" moment because shit's basic as fuck. I can wall-jump vertically up one wall.
>>
>>256326518
Dude, what?

It's a fucking flaw. it doesn't even tell you jack shit how to do it, this isn't an "It's old so it can pass!" sort of thing. They could have at least put a tutorial or an explanation in the controls menu.

This is a game mechanic that is mandatory for the game but it doesn't tell you anything about it besides that "you can do it".
>>
>>256326715
>Yeah, no.

Yeah, actually. Every other part of the map can be accessed without the wall-jump, with the exception of the etecoon tunnel. Wall-jump is just another way to get around the map. It's not required.

>it is precise, extremely precise
I think it's becoming apparent what your actual problem with the wall-jump is. Git gud.
>>
>>256326896
>precise (not extremely precise just enough to have to get used to) doesn't mean its bad
It is extremely precises though, it's a clunky mechanic that they should have simplified or just mapped it to a button.
>>
>>256326096
The section was made to teach wall jumping just another skill you have to apply to get out. Also it's one room after which you never have to go back into it. I understand if you don't like it anon but I find it fun it's a vertical room filled with walljumping fun that takes less than a minute 2 tops to get out of. If this room is tedious wouldn't shooting the robots in the wrecked ship suffer the same judgement? Wouldn't the same be said about traversing the lava in Norfair riding the small jet-powered platforms to get the ice beam?

My point is if lack of fun is a legit complaint then I find it hard to understand how you enjoyed several other rooms in the game.

I'm sorry that I can't sympathize.
>>
>>256326949
>mandatory for the game
No, it's not.

And they SHOW you how on screen.
>>
>>256326949
>tutorial
>explanation
get out
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>>256327010
There are mutliple powerups and even a bit that's required to use the wall jump.

This is a game about exploration, you're telling us to ignore a shitty mechanic because it's optional.
>I think it's becoming apparent what your actual problem with the wall-jump is
Are you a souls faggot by chance?
>>
>>256326949
Egoraptor plz.
>>
>>256326949
Well you see most people are not dumb and realize that this unnatural thing that doesnt show up anywhere else in the game might be a hint on getting the fuck out of the area
>>
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Jesus Christ random block tunnel.
>>
>>256326949
Did you have trouble learning to shinespark as well?

I played this game when it first came out, and yes it took some time to realize what was happening and that I needed to wall jump, but cmon it is pretty damn obvious and you are just being obtuse.
>>
>>256326937
THIS

I emulated the game on my wii for another playthrough just three days ago with a gamestop brand gamecube controller. Even jumped up the shaft several times because the stick makes midair morphballing a hassle.
>>
>>256327118
Yes it is. and they don't show you jack shit. They show three little crittersdoing it. which says nothing besides "you can do it!" might as well tack on "But you need to figure out this really weird combinations and actions to execute it."

It's a terrible mechanic.
>>
>>256327165
>multiple power ups
>and even a bit that's required
Could you be more specific?

I've been playing this game for twenty years. Believe me, describe a room and I'll know exactly what you're talking about. If you're confident you're right, just say which parts.

>are you a souls faggot
Never played them, I've heard nice things.
>>
>>256327118
>And they SHOW you how on screen.

Did we play the same game?

They jump on the wall, hold it for a second, and then jump off.

You jump, kinda spin around the side, and if you're lucky you'll get to jump off.
>>
>>256327165
I can think of one area that requires the wall jump and thats the area in which you are shown how to use it
not to mention the mechanic isnt shitty you are just bad at using it
>>
>>256327150
>Slap the button combination on the controls mapping menu like the game already does
You should be able to map it anyway.

The whole thing seems like a last minute addition
>>
>>256327267
>Yes it is
Seriously, it's not. Saying something incessantly does not make it true. You don't need the wall jump except for the ONE part.
>>
>>256315116
It's close to being flawless, but locking Samus in Tourian was irritating when I wanted to go back and scavenge for 100%.
>>
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When she dies at the end
>>
>mfw I did that part with touch screen controls

Step up senpai
>>
>>256327304
You just described how they show you.
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>>256312030

You should be crying about the sand pits instead, faggot

I actually stopped playing there
>>
>>256327248

Hell is pretty easy (before Ballos anyway) as long as you take it slow. Don't expect to get under 10 minutes though if you aren't gonna burn through it.
>>
>>256327304
actually its you jump
then when you hit the wall you press the button in the opposite direction (samus will make an animations showing shes ready to jump off like the criters) then press the jump button
>>
>>256327253
>Did you have trouble learning to shinespark as well?

No because it's far easier and more intuitive than wall jumping is.
>>
>>256327248
>implying the worst part isnt the sand zone
>>
>>256327267
I've beaten the game several times without going in that room or walljumping as a youngun you are just bad at independent learning and critical thinking. You have no legit complaint besides "it's not fun". We both and the rest in this thread know you are bullshitting.
>>
>>256327253
>Did you have trouble learning to shinespark as well?
No I didn't. It was a very easy power up to learn how to use. Literally the only thing that gave me trouble in all of Super Metroid was the walljump.
>>256327285
>Could you be more specific?
Energy tanks, missile tanks and the like. Nothing major but in a game that stresses exploration it has an extremely shitty bit of gameplay.
>>256327309
No, it's a really shitty mechanic. Just because it's bad doesn't mean it can't be used properly. IT just means it's shit and ruins the flow of the game by adding a frustratingly difficult type of movement that is retardedly precise.
>>
>>256318596
You have to use it if you want to beat the game without fighting Crocmire
>>
>>256326715
>Like you said it is precise, extremely precise.
No it's not. After you turn away from the wall, you have about 1/4 of a second to press the jump button. Wall jumping is very easy, you're just really bad at video games.
>>
>>256327372
>Saying something incessantly does not make it true.
Exactly, saying walljump wasn't an extremely bad and out of place mechanic over and over isn't going to make it true.
>>
>>256327706
actually speed runners use wall jumping (consistantly i might add) to go faster in the game
not to mention you still cant name any parts of the game where its actually necessary
in fact you can probably 100 percent the entire game without using it if you just wait to get the space jump
>>
>>256327706
>Just because it's bad doesn't mean it can't be used properly. Actually if its a bad mechanic then it cant be used properly. it just sounds like YOU cant use it properly and are just calling it shit
>>
>>256327706
SPECIFIC. Which ones. Which ones absolutely require the wall-jump to get there?

It's none of them because you get the space jump later in the game you complete moron.
>>
>>256327643
>We both and the rest in this thread know you are bullshitting.
Or the fact that you're a bunch of nostalgic fanboys who can't admit the game has a flaw.
>You have no legit complaint besides "it's not fun".
It's clunky and extremely precise compare to the rest of the controls, it has a much too high skill ceiling and the part where it "explains" it to you isn't anything but a bunch of critters immitating the movement of walljumping when ALL the other controls are explained to you.

Insulting and demeaning me isn't going to change the fact it's a shitty mechanic.
>>
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ITT: Dipshits who can't walljump and will never know how fun Super Metroid is
>>
>>256327934
shine sparking is explained to you in the exact same manner but i dont see you bitching about that
again you havent explained why its a bad mechanic other then "I cant do it"
>>
>>256327724
>No it's not.
Yes it is. You jump towards the wall and then simultaneously jump again while moving or pressing the opposite direction on the D-pad. The only game I've ever seen require that much precision for something so minor was fighting games.
>>256327832
>not to mention you still cant name any parts of the game where its actually necessary
The part where the game explains it to you.
>in fact you can probably 100 percent the entire game without using it if you just wait to get the space jump
You can't.
>>256327920
>Game about exploration
>Has a shitty mechanic
>YOU DON'T NEED TO USE IT!!!
Yeah, naw. It was a shitty mechanic.
>>
>>256327706
I'm starting to think you are a hypochondriac and blow things way out of proportion. It's literally an extra shown tutorial like the shinespark bird to teach you advanced maneuvering.
>>
>>256327832

So it's a wonky mechanic that only works if you learn how to deal with the fact that it isn't well designed enough to actually telegraph to the player how to pull it off in the short amount of time you have to do it and is completely pointless and outclassed by an item you can get later? Am I reading this right?
>>
>>256328042

That's because it actually works the exact same way the animal shows you. You go fast, hold down, and jump. Wall jumping doesn't. You touch the wall and hope it lets you jump instead of just falling back down.
>>
>>256328142
so explain to me why you wouldnt be able to just go get space jump and come back to do the only single part in the game that "requires" wall jumping.
>>
>>256328282
So does wall jumping
you run up to a wall
jump against it (keep in mind like the animals you have to be flipping)
hit the opposite direction on the d pad
then jump again
its the exact same as they do it
>>
>>256328018
Beat the game, learned to wall jump. It was a shitty mechanic and took away from the game's quality for how retarded it was.
>>256328042
Because shinespark doesn't require retarded button inputs.

>You get shinespark power up
>Animal starts running (Which is shown to you in the controls mapping menu)
>Then he lights up and shinesparks
and then there is walljumping
>Start out with wall jumping
>No indication it's in game or how to use it except for some areas and an animal that uses it
>Requires precise button inputs
>>
>>256327934
>it's clunky and precise
Okay what.
>>
The sandpits in Maridia are worse.
>>
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>jump towards a wall
>jump away towards the opposite wall
>repeat
>>
>>256328157
no you are actually adding a shitload on to it so you can feel like you are right
the mechanic is fine and its not necessary its just there to help you explore a little bit more in the early game but if you are a huge bitch (which apparently you are) then you can wait till the very end of the game so you dont have to learn how to do something thats only kind of hard
>>
>>256328150
The shinesprk bird is fucking obvious as you JUST got the shinespark powerup.
plus it was progressive, he ran so I ran, Running is an explained mechanic. and then shinespark happened.

Walljump on the other hand gives you no indication of what buttons you're suppose to press and is retardedly precise to the point of making me quit for days before going back and beating the game.
>>
>>256328553
>no indication of what buttons to press
>the critters dont jump
>the critters dont then jump in the opposite direction
>>
Beak-bombing in Banjo Kazooie, fuck that shit.
>>
>>256327934
What makes the controls clunky it's 80% timing at best.

>ALL the other controls are explained to you
Since when? The game drops you in and has you learn by experimentation.

It's like complaining that typing on a keypad is too hard and clunky after learning the alphanumeric keys. There was a time when learning a game didn't stop after the first level.
>>
>>256328305
Because wouldn't that be sequence breaking?

The game is a puzzle of different shit, you could argue that most of the stff is optional but it doesn't mean that a certain one isn't complete and utter shit and there are parts in the game clearly intended for you to use it and get 100%
>>
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>>256312030
I mastered wall jumping when I was 10. It only took like a half hour of trying over and over again
>>
>all this talk about walljump being clunky
Speaking of clunky, did anybody actually ever play with moonwalk on?
>>
>>256326282

They jump to the wall, face away, and jump off the wall. What more do you want? Literally just mimic what they did with your controls.

>>256326715

You could bomb jump instead.
>>
>>256328397
>hit the opposite direction on the d pad
I didn't know animals could do that.
I didn't even know they had a D-pad.
>>256328413
It's clunky because it's precise. You need a specific button input that you have to guess from the animals in front of you.
>>
>>256328695
>>Because wouldn't that be sequence breaking?
no you dumbshit sequence breaking would mean you had to go to an area you werent ready for like beating madridia without the gravity suit
you can beat the entire game without using wall jumping up until the space jump numbnuts
>>
>>256328860
>the animals look in the opposite direction when they jump
>samus does the exact same thing after jumping against a wall and pressing the dpad in the opposite direction

you are just pretending to be stupid right?
>>
>>256328680
Literally what.

The first time I did it I sat there for a good hour trying to imitate their movement to no success.
>>256328693
>Since when? The game drops you in and has you learn by experimentation
Literally in the main menu and in the pause menu there is a controls option where you can map controls.
>It's like complaining that typing on a keypad
No, it's like complaining that a bad mechanic is in the game and people are defending it because "Muh retardedly difficult move in an otherwise easy game.
>>
>>256328553
>Walljump on the other hand gives you no indication of what buttons you're suppose to press and is retardedly precise to the point of making me quit for days before going back and beating the game.

They teach you just as obvious as the bird. Jump to a wall then jump away from the wall from there it's simply timing. At this point I question your rhythm.
>>
>>256329139
>literally
>literally

i'm fucking done with your retardation
>>
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>>256327934
>it has a much too high skill ceiling
>skill ceiling
I know this guy is just baiting people but why have so many people been using "skill ceiling" incorrectly on /v/ lately

the implication here, as stated, would be that walljumping allows skilled players to get TOO GOOD at the game compared to lesser skilled players
>>
>>256318951
>flying levels
True for so, so many games.
>>
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>everything online says to look for certain frames of sprites to know when to jump
>they only appear after I hit jump and am starting to fall

Is this game just broken (playing on my Wii U VC) or am I that fucking bad.
>>
>>256328845
>They jump to the wall, face away, and jump off the wall. What more do you want?
How about something that's actually explained like everything else in the entire game? Or better yet, a mappable control because fuck you for wanting a stupid mechanic to be made easier.


>You could bomb jump instead.
Doesn't efffect how retarded orr clunky wall jump is.
>>
>>256312030
Are you fucking serious? How can anyone suck that badly?
>>
>>256329310
>a mappable control
this is in the game
your idiot is showing
>>
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>>256329139
The control do not teach Shinesparking or Shinesparking at an angle using L and R.
The controls didn't teach using your ammunition to heal yourself. Controls didn't teach you how to space jump nor did they teach you how to bomb jump. Face it you're full of it and need your hand held throughout a game made for the thinking man. I am fighting hard to avoid the "C" word sir/madam.
>>
>>256312030
Y Cant Metroid Crawl? :-(
>>
>>256328695

>Cant do the most simple tech in the game because "its too hard, the controls are shit"
>Says it's sequence breaking if you have an item that obliterates this

You have to be either

Underage
That fucking terrible at games
or all of the above
>>
>babby seeks validation
>rightfully gets shat on for over 100 posts
>doesn't give up

well, I applaud your perseverance, but you also just suck. I don't typically resort to ad hominem, but there's really not much more to it. The controls work fine and it's common sense, but you just can't get it.
>>
>>256328883
>you can beat the entire game without using wall jumping up until the space jump numbnuts
The section it's explained to you is a required sequence. It's still a shitty mechanic regardless.
>>256328981
Of course you're assuming everyone has extensively tested Samus' jump and how it is effected by ramming into a wall mid jump.
>>256329151
>They teach you just as obvious as the bird.
No they don't. They mimic the movement, a lot of which you're likely to ignore unless you pay extremely close attention to Samus' movements.
>>256329258
Entry level or whatever
>Baiting
Stop. It's a bad mechanic you nostalgia driven retard.
>>
>>256315116
Zero Mission is better
>>
>>256329309
Not bad, it's just a bad and stupid mechanic.
>>256329448
No wall jumping.
>>
>>256329625
Because a ball is much easier to animate.

>>256329712
Christ, this guy is pathetic.
>>
>>256329618

Every other secret in this game works fine. Shinesparking works fine. Crystal flash works fine. Wall jumping is finicky as shit and stop defending it. If you like it, whatever. Don't pretend it isn't a fucking nightmare to master in comparison to literally everything else in the game though.
>>
>>256329825
>jump to wall
>press away from wall and jump
>repeat
>OMG SO FUCKING HARD THAT SKILL CEILING

please
>>
>>256329618
>These extremely easy few button press mechanics are comparable to a stupid and precise mechanic that is given to you before the game even starts.
>>
>>256328553
You didn't get the shinespark powerup, you got the speed booster which at that point just makes you run faster.

The bird runs, then ducks to activate the shinespark and jumps.

If anything the bird is LESS obvious than such a simple act of wall jumping that most players will do by accident on their 1st playthrough.
>>
>>256329642
1:) It's not the most simple technique in the entire game
2:)Literally the only bit of SM that gave me any sort of trouble first time playing

Calling me underage and terrible at video games wont make it a not shit mechanic.
>>
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ITT the absolute worst parts of otherwise good games

Pic fucking related
>>
>>256329712
>The section it's explained to you is a required sequence. It's still a shitty mechanic regardless.
no it isnt
what the fuck are you talking about
>>
>>256329936

Did I say it had a fucking skill ceiling? There's more than one person in this thread, ass-for-brains.

And yes, it is "SO FUCKING HARD." It barely works.
>>
>>256330093
"I can't do it" doesnt mean it barely works it just means you are bad at video games
>>
>>256329663
>. The controls work fine and it's common sense, but you just can't get it.
They don't though. It requires near frame perfect execution. It's a really bad mechanic in comparison to the rest of the game. Especially for something you have since the beginning
>>
>>256329448
This is /v/, what did you expect.

I mean OP can't even wall jump in Super Metroid.
>>
>>256330053
>If anything the bird is LESS obvious than such a simple act of wall jumping that most players will do by accident on their 1st playthrough.

How the fuck are you this dumb

The bird runs, you run. The bird ducks, you duck. The bird jumps, you jump. It works.

The monkeys jump into a wall, you jump into a wall. They cling to the wall, you just kinda hit it. They jump off, you fall back down or if you get really lucky with the timing (it is not telegraphed in any way a player can actually notice unless they spend more time learning it than they should on an entire playthrough) jump off.
>>
>>256318237
Water levels blow.
>>
>>256330263
they dont just cling to the wall retard they look in the opposite direction
anyone with a brain would know what that means
>>
>>256330078

The tutorial is pretty shit in MMX though. I dread replaying it because it's just not fun.
>>
>>256328142
>You jump towards the wall and then simultaneously jump again while moving or pressing the opposite direction on the D-pad.
That is incorrect. You turn away before jumping.

see:
>>256327520
>then when you hit the wall you press the button in the opposite direction (samus will make an animations showing shes ready to jump off like the criters) then press the jump button

You're doing it wrong and blaming the game. Cry more, scrub.
>>
>>256330093
If it barely works then you wouldn't be able to do this consistently.
>>
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>>256329825
>>256329960
Nintendo I am so sorry you had high hopes for us but only very few had the skill and intelligence to measure up. This is why Skyward Sword was a slow ass tutorial for the majority of the game and why titles like W101 get overlooked. Our nation is comprised of a 6th grade level of intuition.
>>
>>256330093
>vehemently believes simple game mechanic is hard and broken rather than face the fact that he just sucks

A psychology would have a field day with you.
>>
>>256330364
it has a great theme though
>>
>>256329813
>this guy is pathetic.
Again, not proving it's a not shit mechanic.
>>256330053
>If anything the bird is LESS obvious than such a simple act
Yet somehow The shinespark didn't get an entire thread with multiple people calling it a shit mechanic.

Literally anything could be found by accident but the wall jump is just retardedly difficult and unweildy in comparison to the rest of the powers given to you in game.
>>
>>256330363

>look in opposite direction
>fall off wall and start going down

Yeah that works wonderfully.

You've got like maybe a quarter of a second at best. You either get lucky are you get autistic.
>>
>>256330239
>it requires near frame perfect execution
lol no
>>
>>256330090
Yes it is
You have to shinespark through to clear the hallway but the ground is booby trapped.
>>
>>256330078

Wall jumping in MMX works fine because the designers for that game weren't balls retarded. You just cling and hit the jump button. There's no such clinging in SM so it's a goddamn chore to pull it off.
>>
>>256330532
I'm sorry you have such bad reaction time. You should think about getting tested for Parkinson's. I say this because I genuinely care about your well-being
>>
Oh gee this Gunstar Super Heroes game is pretty fun
>>
>>256315321
my first time was like a year ago after everyone had complained about this tube

but the wall jumping was so fucking easy. I laughed when my roommate fucked it up at least a dozen times
>>
>>256330532
>he's so casual he can't press left/right and A in the right sequence
>>
>>256330467

Wonderful 101 is one of my favorite games from last year. I play it all the time. Skyward Sword was fucking boring easy baby shit. I know how to play games. Wall jumping is shit in super metroid.
>>
>>256330420
>That is incorrect. You turn away before jumping.
Oh well, it's just a stupid and unmemorable mechanic except for the fat it was retardedly difficult.

Keep trying to prove it's not a shitty mechanic your doing a terrible job.
>>
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>>256330532
its not like she has a special animation or anything
>>
>>256330630
it's easier, yes, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with SM's. It's a more advanced technique than the usual jumping and shooting.
>>
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>>256316014
Prime isnt even best 3d metroid


They're both as close to perfect as any game is gonna get
>>
>>256330472

>A psychology

learn to write.
>>
>>256330758
>its shitty becuase i cant do it
you keep saying it but you cant explain why its bad
its not that precise
its not that hard to figure out
you are just dumb
>>
>>256330467
Played W101 beat it on hard working on the bottle caps now.

Walljumping is a shit mechanic.
>>256330570
Quality post.
>>
>>256330758
>Oh well, it's just a stupid and unmemorable mechanic except for the fat it was retardedly difficult.
Just admit that you're a scrub so we can be on our way.
>>
the aliens guys literally show you exactly what to do. If you can't figure it out in 15 seconds you're truly lost. It's not like they're asking you to do single-wall-jumps or infinite bomb jumps or any of that.
>>
>>256330681
>I'm sorry you have such bad reaction time.

I play rhythm games all the time and wreck shit in them. My reaction time is perfectly fine. Wall jumping is a shitty mechanic.
>>
>>256330760
>>256330730
>>256330681
>Only defence is "git gud" or calling him bad
Dude, it's a bad mechanic.

I love super but HOLY SHIT, stop.
>>
>>256331032
What else is there to say? He's wrong and he just sucks, end of story. He's not willing to admit he sucks and rather blame a perfectly functioning game mechanic.
>>
>>256330889
I did do it you retard.

I did it multiple times, I used it on ever section I was suppose to because I'm anal about collecting shit in the game before progressing.

It's precise as shit because it requires frame perfect input and timing, it's hard to figure out, I didn't even know samus could hang on walls before that, and it's a terrible mechanic.
>>
>>256331032
>only defence is claim people are telling him to get gud

its not even that he cant do it its just that he is too stupid to figure out how the game perfectly explains how to do it and the only thing being said is "I CANT DO IT SO ITS BAD"
>>
>>256331132

Or maybe, HEY MAYBE HERE'S AN IDEA. Maybe the mechanic just sucks.
>>
>>256330939
Dude, it's a bad mechanic. You can insult me all you want but it doesn't change the fact that it's annoying and awful.
>>
>>256331225
>frame perfect timing

dude there is like a 2 second window to fucking do it dont give me any of your bullshit
>>
>>256331132
The mechanic is shit, though. I had 0 problem for most of the game, except for walljumping which is fucking retarded.

Super metroid can't have flaws or something?
>>
>>256331225

it is not 'frame perfect' you FUCKING moron
>>
>>256331342
how is it a bad mechanic
again you keep saying its a bad mechanic but your only defence is "its clunky and precise" which
1. its not clunky at all
2. precise doesnt make it bad
>>
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>>256331132

>He's not willing to admit he sucks and rather blame a perfectly functioning game mechanic.
>perfectly functioning

Look. I love Super Metroid. Wall Jumping is really good when you get it down. But it is not "perfectly functioning." It requires way, way too much precision and is generally a nightmare to even learn nevermind master. If you think it's "perfectly functioning" you're either a troll or one of those self-absorbed people that thinks anybody who isn't as good as you is a small child who can't do anything right.
>>
>>256331356
>dude there is like a 2 second window
No there isn't, it's less than a second.
>>256331443
It is. You have to time it perfectly just to notfall off the wall, the window is tiny as shit.
>>
>>256330928
>>256330751
There are more complex mechanics in W101 than this damn walljump mechanic. Why is it so hard for you?
>>
>>256312030
just like jump wall
how fat are your fingers?
>>
>>256331487
just because its precise doesnt mean its not functioning
and again its completely optional to begin with
>>
>>256331443

It really kind of is. You can only do it when Samus is doing specific sprites and they last maybe ten frames at absolute most.
>>
>>256331427
It has flaws but that isn't one of them. It functions perfectly fine. Jump to wall, point away and jump again, repeat.
>>
OP you do know you can wall jump between two walls right? You don't have to single wall jump, it's not hard at all.
>>
>>256331524
dude there is like 30 fucking frames to hit the button
seriously it has a huge window
>>
>>256329712
You, sir, are a disgrace.
>>
>>256331536

Because it's fucking garbage and barely works?

It is objectively easier to juggle an enemy in Wonderful 101 than it is to walljump in super metroid.
>>
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>walljumping

i actually started playing super metroid for the first time awhile ago. walljumping isn't really that bad, although getting past that part took a few tries. i'll admit that i got totally fucking lost trying to find kraid (i had no idea that wall in the elevator room was bombable), and the angle shinesparking thing was something i wasn't really aware of either. but you kinda just figure it out after a bit of slamming all the buttons on your controller at once, its not as bad as most of you are making it out to be.
>>
>it's too precise! it's wonky!
So because a technique requires some modicum of, well, technique, it's therefore wonky?
>>
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Dantooine in KotOR 2, such a disappointing and buggy mess.
>>
>>256331601

Saying it's optional doesn't mean it isn't bad. Sparkshining is optional but nobody complains about it because hey guess what, it isn't badly designed. It works in a way that makes sense and doesn't require you to learn perfect, precise timing. There's a reason they added the ability to grab ledges in Zero Mission, it's because wall jumping is fucking shit.
>>
>>256331458
>1. its not clunky at all
>2. precise doesnt make it bad
It is clunky, and it's extremely precise. Compared to literally every other mechanic given to you, ESPECIALLY ones that you start out with it's a retardedly difficult one to use. It requires more button inputs than anything else in the game and requires you to do them perfectly.
>>256331536
Because in W101 most mechanics are explained to you in ways it knows it's played can figure out.

Wall jumping is just slow and clunky compared to the rest of the mechanics in super.
>>
>>256326949
>It's a fucking flaw.
THAT'S WHAT YOUR MOM SAID ABOUT THE CONDOM THAT RESULTED IN YOUR BIRTH
OHHHHHHHHH NO HE DI'INT NO HE DI'INT
YES HE DID
>>
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>>
>>256331716
>Because it's fucking garbage and barely works
no it isnt
the only person who cant do it consistantly is you
>>
>>256331674
>It has flaws but that isn't one of them.
Yes and no.
Walljumping is probably it's biggest flaw.
>>256331692
Does Super even run at 30 frames?
>>256331702
Keep those insults coming. Not accomplishing anything.
>>
>>256331794

Is it really technique if it is entirely trial and error based around learning to find visual cues that barely exist?
>>
>>256331225
In the time you've spent bitching about how hard it is to do on the internet you could've figured out how to do it in game already.
>>
>>256331834
i never said it wasnt bad because its optional
im saying its not bad because its precise.
its a perfectly functioning mechanic that can help you explore and can be done consistantly
there is nothing bad about it
>inb4 its bad cause i cant do it
>>
>>256331939
It's not an insult, anon, it's just a fact. But since you took it as an insult, I can see you're ashamed of it.
>>
>>256331905
>>the only person who cant do it consistantly is you
I couldn't either.

It's a shit mechaniic, anon.
>>
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>>256331836
>>256331716
Walljumping works 100% of the time you she does not walljump it's the fault of the player not the game.
>>
>>256312030
Remember when Metroid was good?

Then it went on hiatus for 10 years and came back as a shitty Zelda clone.

I wonder how they're going to rape this series next time?
>>
>>256327608

Man I'm trying to do hard mode on CS+ and I'm getting my shit stomped by Monster X.
>>
>>256332012

So you're saying it doesn't matter that it's bad because it's optional.

And it is bad because it's precise. Or more accurately, because it's far too precise. You can't be expected to pull it off on a consistent basis unless you spend like half an hour just learning it. Nothing else in this game takes even a minute to figure out.
>>
>>256331990
>that barely exist
that's just plain wrong
>trial and error technique
yeah, for the first 10 seconds after they demonstrate it while you quickly figure out how it works based on exactly what they showed you
>>
>>256331880
At least he isn't Agent 9
>>
>>256331993
I know how to do it in game. like I've said multiple times I've beat Super metroid, I've used it plenty of times, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a terrible mechanic.

I'm not calling it bade because I don't know how to use it. IT's bad because it's bad.
>>256332018
>it's just a fact.
Like the fact that it's a terrible mechanic.
>>256332049
No one is saying it's broken, anon. It's just a bad mechanic. Bad games can work fine but it doesn't mean they're goo games for working.
>>
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I've been playing this game for six, seven fucking years and I still can't do wall jumping for shit. I know how to play the game perfectly fine and can do literally everything else with zero effort. It's not about "skill," it just isn't designed well.

But no, just call me a casual and tell me to git gud, because god forbid my second favorite game of all time have one fucking problem.
>>
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>>256312030
This shit right here
>>
>>256332183
not once did i ever say that its not bad because its optional
and just because you have to learn something doesnt make it bad
but i guess games have to hold your hand 100% of the time
>>
>>256332196
>yeah, for the first 10 seconds after they demonstrate it
Try an hour.

I would love to have been there for your first time playing it, and not your exaggerated memory of it.
>>
I'm not against valid complaints of classic 10/10 games, but this isn't one of them. It's not a bugged game mechanic. It works just fine. It's not too hard and it's not even super precise like people are saying. It clearly shows you exactly what to do.

If you're going to make a super metroid complaint, I'd instead bring up the glass tube. No indication you can break it. No indication that power bombs are what you need for it.
>>
>>256332196
>it works based on exactly what they showed you

No, it fucking doesn't.
>>
>>256332358
i cant do it =/= a bad mechanic
>>
>>256332518
>jump to wall
>point away
>jump to next wall

just because you had a hard time figuring it out does not make it a bad mechanic.
>>
>>256332518
>jump on wall
>turn in opposite direction
>jump again
yeah thats exactly what they showed you
>>
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>>256332390
I have never beat it fair. Always used a cheat.
>>
>>256332385
There's a unique sprite to look out for when doing it. I have trouble getting the wall jumping started, but after you get that first one it's just timing.
I figured that out when I was eight.
>>
>>256332517
It shows you in the game's attract mode if you idle on the title screen. It shows you you need to blow it with a power bomb.
>>
>>256332542
This was the exact point I was making, anon. I don't know why you think you needed to repeat me but okay.
>>
>>256332358
Your main argument was that it's a bad mechanic that doesn't work and you are trying to convey that overly skilled players are MAKING it work when that is not the case at all.

The fact that it is possible and not as terribly difficult as you say is a plus for the game.

You not being able to grasp it does not discredit the game one bit.
>>
nigger i had no fucking problem emulating the game with a goddamn keyboard with the walljumping sections

what the fuck are you going on about
>>
>>256332517

See now, unlike wall jumping, that actually is common sense. It's fucking glass. What breaks glass? A lot of shit. Power bombs break damn near everything. If you see a glass tube and don't think "I bet this can be broken," you're retarded.
>>
>complaining about super metroid being difficult
lol
>>
>>256332642

Yep, it is. They jump on the wall, look the other way, and jump again.

It is similar to the bird, who runs, ducks, and then jumps. 3 actions, all scripted and shown to you.

git fuckin gud fgt
>>
>>256332121
Monster X is easy. Spam Blade lv. 2 on everything. boom done
Blade 2 resolves all the boss' HP in like five seconds, and if you really need to, level 3 removes half the projectiles on the screen.
>>
>>256329310
you know, I used to think illustrations were included in kids' books and the like so that people who can't yet read can still follow along easily. But now /v/ is starting to make me think the opposite; text and lengthy tutorials in vidya is included for challenged people who can't pick up simple visual cues.
>>
>>256332924

Nobody's saying the game is difficult, they're saying the shitty wall jumping mechanic is shitty.
>>
>>256333056
Its funny because i have yet to see a valid reason as to why its shitty
>>
>>256333056
No they are saying the wall jumping mechanic is too hard for them so it's shit.
>>
>>256332931

One of those makes sense because you know how to run, duck and jump. Nowhere is it stated that you need to spin into a wall, hold the opposite direction and jump, all within less than a second.

The little monkey things (or whatever) do a wall jump but it's nowhere near as easy to parse as shinesparking is from the tutorial they give. And even then, it doesn't help you learn the exact timing it requires at all.
>>
>>256332995

yeah i have no problem with monster x normally. the problem comes in when you can't take one hit without dying because the game gives you no health upgrades or the missile launcher which will heavy press and ballos take longer than they should. i can't even downgrade the blade now, nothing does under 3 damage.
>>
>>256332770
No, my argument is that it's stupidly precise and hard to use for a mechanic given to you in the beginning of the game. It's possibly the hardest one to figure out out of all the basic powerups and skills in the game.

It requires near perfect timing, and is barely explained to you at all in game. The animal critter barely explain it to you and they're unhelpful as 1/3rd of the animations they're imitating can be easily missed unlike the shinespark, because running is clearly explained in the controls menu.

It's not at the same entry level as the rest of the game and it's shit for it especially since there are section that are obviously meant to use it. The mechanic feels like a moment the devs thought "this would be cool" but got stuck on how to implement it properly and just left it.

>You not being able to grasp it does not discredit the game one bit.
I grasp it fine, it's just a bad mechanic.
>>
>>256333112

Besides the fact that it requires pixel perfect timing?
>>
>>256333202
>Nowhere is it stated that you need to spin into a wall, hold the opposite direction and jump, all within less than a second.
except you know how to jump and you know how to look in the opposite direction
your arguments are holding up less and less
>>
>>256333031
You know, I used to think super metroid fanboys were pretty chill until I tried to point out a flaw in their game.

It's all namecalling from there.
>>
>>256312030
I really have to play this game before it is all spoiled.
>>
Metroid is such an overrated fucking series. Holy fuck man.
>>
>>256333316
>10 frames
>pixle perfect

a difficult mechanic isnt a bad mechanic
>>
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>>256333316
>pixel perfect timing
>>
>>256333347

And you're supposed to know you have a third of a second to jump before you stop "looking" in the opposite direction and instead just fall to the floor... how?

No, it's not the sprites they show. Those never show up when I play the game until it's already too late to jump. They don't work.
>>
>>256333438
Nah, it's actually fairly under rated.

The fans however retardedly over rate it.

This thread is a good example of how Super fanboys can't admit walljumping was implemented badly.
>>
>>256333428

Fucking hell this. Metroid fans are cool as fuck but if you have the fucking audacity to say "Hey this thing doesn't work right" they chimp the fuck out.
>>
>>256333571
by missing the first time and saying "OH THIS ACTUALLY REQUIRES TIMING MAYBE I SHOULD DO IT WHILE IM STILL AGAINST THE WALL"
>>
>>256333454
A difficult mechanic in a sea of easy mechanics is a bad thing though. ESPECIALLY when it's outright required and has several areas that need it.
>>
>>256333743
FUCKING BULLSHIT
not once is it necessary to use wall jumping in this game
not once
>>
>>256331939
>Does Super even run at 30 frames?
60 frames per second
>>
>>256315991
>get viva pinata TiP to see what the fuss is about
>spend thirty minutes playing the game in five second bursts between dumb cutscenes and massive tutorial spam
Literally the worst tutorial I ever played. So bad that I stopped playing the game during the tutorial because of the tutorial.
>>
>>256333703
And then you spend the next three hours trying to figure out the timing, and then getting into a rhythm.
>>256333850
>not once is it necessary to use wall jumping in this game
>not once
Except for the bit in which it's supposed to be explained to you.
>>
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>>256333276
When the animals jump from the wall the first thing you notice is the sound. They chirp everytime they jump off of the wall this is there to tell you that rhythm is the basis of the technique. It's explained plenty.
>>
>>256333983
>>Except for the bit in which it's supposed to be explained to you.
you mean that place thats completely optional
>>
What's the best 2D Metroid?

Currently playing Zero Mission and hoping it gets better.
>>
>>256332390
I never understood what the big butthurt over this one was about. I have literally never failed to win it and I've beaten the game like a dozen times, not including the times when I've had to beat it for friends.
>>
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If you think that wall jumping isn't a shittily-implimented mechanic then you probably think pic related takes no effort, either.

You're just a tryhard that refuses to accept that something you "learned" is actually ridiculously hard and badly designed. Yes, I can wall jump. Yes, I can reach that upgrade. That doesn't mean either works well and isn't a huge pain in the ass to do properly.
>>
>>256334057
You mean that place where it's not optional at all?
>>
>>256334162
Super is generally the most loved
Fusion isnt that good since its very linear and very heavily story based
original is ok but it can get kind of confusing (should just stick with zero mission)
>>
>>256334162
Super is the best. Just the walljumpng is shit.
>>
>>256334162
super and zero mission are pretty close in terms of quality, but are you really not having fun with zero mission immediately? what the fuck

>>256334243
taking effort does not imply it's shittily-implemented, you cockmongler
>>
>>256334249
actually it is completely optional there is nothing down there thats necessary to get
in fact i'm certain that everything in that area you can get by going through different routes
>>
>>256333703

>first time

Try first thousand times. Every fucking time I play Super Metroid I spend an hour trying to "learn" how to wall jump and every time I realize it just doesn't work right. Don't say it's just because I'm bad, or something. It's not like I can't do whatever else the game asks of me. Wall jumping is just way too precise to be reliable unless you spend days learning it, and if you're doing that you probably, legitimately have something you need to see a doctor for.
>>
>>256315116
I wouldn't say it's a flawed game, but everything it does has been done better in later games in the series, other than the inventory system and arguably sequence breaking but they aren't the main reason that most people play games, but I'm sure some will argue are to claim that Super Metroid is the best in the franchise.
>>
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This and Chapter 6, too. They should have been merged together at least.
>>
>>256334470
i learned how to do it in no more then five fucking minutes and ever since then i've been able to do it consisntantly
you are so full of shit
>>
>>256333428
dude, no. Don't even begin to pretend you're this thin-skinned on /v/ of all places.

I played Super Metroid for the first time a year ago. I already knew about its existence through other Metroid games, so I didn't really need to discover it or learn it from the Etecoons (I learned it in the other games, then, and those didn't have tutorials for it either) but the thing is that it's not difficult at all. Spin jump toward a wall, tap the opposite direction briefly so Samus is left in a certain position where she looks ready to jump off, then press jump. You can just jump up the same wall repeatedly and I found it easier than alternating between two walls... not that that's hard either. It's not finicky if it has clearly defined mechanics like this.
>>
>>256334162

Super would be the only game that deserves a 10/10 if it weren't for the wall jumping and that one place with the sand pits.
>>
>>256334464
You can't. It's required. The area is in the way of one of the required plot areas. You have to shinespark through but you fall down a hole.
>>
>>256312030
The problem with this part, is that the creatures are only showing you the general concept for how to perform the jump. But it's never explained the exact button combination that's required. Because the button combination isn't adequately explained, it allows the player to feed themselves misleading information.

At first, the player might think that they need to press away + jump at the same time. But in actuality the combination requires the player to press away and then jump. One action in quick succession after the other.
By trying to perform the button presses at the same time, you might by chance press the jump button one frame before the direction button, and thus you fail. Or you might by chance press the jump button after the direction button, and thus you succeed.

The problem with this, is that the player's first solution would be to act more precisely. Without actually understanding what's required, their successes reinforce the notion that they were more precise, and the failures reinforce the notion that they were less precise. Essentially, sending the player down the road of misunderstanding.

If it were just better explained, then it wouldn't have been so bad. Or, they can do what they did with Fusion and Zero Mission, and make wall jumping more lenient.
>>
>>256334398
>but are you really not having fun with zero mission immediately?
It's alright. I enjoy the upgrades. But it's not the 10/10 I kept being told it was by /v/.
>>
>>256334398

Being able to do something that's a hundred times harder than anything else in the game does not imply it merely "takes effort," you dipshit.
>>
>>256334470
>Every fucking time I play Super Metroid I spend an hour trying to "learn" how to wall jump
Having trouble with it the first time I can understand. If you're having this much trouble remembering how to perform a game mechanic in a game you've played more than twice, you might be the one who needs to see a doctor.
>>
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>>256334243
So for you and everyone else complaining about difficult timings, let me ask you this:

Are links and combos in street fighter and most fighting games bad mechanics?
The timing is extremely tight, and it requires a fair amount of skill to pull off consistently, but is extremely useful and effective for completely your goals, just like wall jumping, which has been proven by all of these webms:

>>256316834
>>256319256
>>256330448

Seriously. People claiming it's a bad mechanic don't even know what a "bad mechanic" is.
>>
>>256334687
>you have to shine spark through
no you dont you can jump over the fucking hole
i feel like you dont even know where that scene actually is
you are thinking its in that area where you have to run past all those columns that go down dont you
>>
>>256333968
>worst
It's not worse than KH or FFXIII that takes 30 hours to finish
>>
>>256334876
>>Are links and combos in street fighter and most fighting games bad mechanics?

No because they actually work as intended. They aren't supposed to be something a small child would do.
>>
>>256334647
>Don't even begin to pretend you're this thin-skinned on /v/ of all places.
What.

I mean seriously what? I'm not thin skinned in the least. but GOD forbid someone point out SM's flaws.
>those didn't have tutorials for it either
Super has tutorials though. The Walljumping one is stupidly vague.
>but the thing is that it's not difficult at all
Except it is.
>. It's not finicky if it has clearly defined mechanics like this.
It's not clearly defined at all, it's pretty elaborate for a game whose basic techniques are extremely simple.
>>
>>256331132

Wall jumping works okay in Super but it's hard to go back to it after they perfected it in both Fusion and Zero Mission.
>>
>>256335049
but they are 1 frame links in a 60 fps game
they are too precise to do consistantly unless you spend hours and hours trying to get them done
so they are bad mechanics
>>
>>256335196

Combos, in good fighters anyway, are not 1 frame links.
>>
>>256334243
You do not understand the word "design". Your understanding of good video game design is the entire game should be easy or hard.
Good game design is the beginning is easy to help you focus on mastering the basics and you get better as advanced mechanics are put in front of you. It's not the fault of the designers that it's hard to grasp it's fault of the player. The fact that you CAN walljump is proof that the game did not drop the ball.
>>
>>256335295
SF4 has 1 frame links
but according to you they are good mechanics
meanwhile Metroid has a wall jump that has up to 15 frames to allow you to do it
but those are bad mechanics becuase you cant do them
>>
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>>256335049
>No because they actually work as intended. They aren't supposed to be something a small child would do.
1. Wall jumps work every time if you are doing it right, just like links.
2. Small kids can play fighting games, there's no fucking restriction.

So if a kid can do it. So can you, unless you've got a learning disability. Honestly, I'm actually concerned for you. I think you have either a learning disability or some sort of cerebral palsy.
>>
>>256335398
>SF4 has 1 frame links

Like I said, good fighters.
>>
It may be that I just got used to the walljumping in Super, but I recall the mechanic requiring the same amount of timing in Fusion and Zero Mission, all they did was take away one-wall walljumping for those two.
>>
>>256334796
Seriously, what the fuck is with this argument? How can you possibly be calling the walljump mechanics in SM so unbelievably hard when all they take is a few minutes at most of fiddling for anyone with half a brain? Please go play La-Mulana so you can understand what actual obtuse solutions are.

There's a word for people like you. Casual.
>>
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>>256335427

>Mines in the hallways of a marine decontamination plant
>>
>>256335304
>You do not understand the word "design". Your understanding of good video game design is the entire game should be easy or hard.

Stop making shit up. A good game starts easy and gets harder as it progresses. It has optional areas that are hard, but not immeasurably so in comparison to the endgame. Both walljumping and reaching that particular upgrade in Mega Man X are much, much harder to pull off than their respective final boss fights.
>>
>>256335572
Anything more than 5 frames in a 60fps game is absolute baby tier.

It's not like you are not allowed to point out flaws in Super Metroid, just try pointing out ones that actually exist.
>>
>>256335707
you should read the rest of his post
also all the areas that require wall jumping are completely optional
>>
>>256312030
I didn't realize until after the fact that this was a wall-jumping tutorial. I had been using wall jumps for a while at this point... They're tricky, but not so much after you get the timing down.
>>
>play Prime 3
>all reviews praised the aiming controls with the wiimote
>its really that good
>all other shooters on Wii kept using their shitty unprecise technic

>tfw didnt bought the Metroid Trilogie for 20€ in sale

fuck man i want to play them all with my wiimote
>>
>>256334886
>no you dont you can jump over the fucking hole
No you can't, it's too wide unless you go get other powerups and sequence break.

Regardless it doesn't make the mechanic any less shit.
>>
>>256334993
KH 1's tutorial was fun and uunique and a great way to slowly ease you into the game. KH2's was awful.

The rest of the games have been good about it though, restricting it to the Awakening sequences.
>>
>>256335875
same guy - I realized it was a tutorial after looking online. I never figured out the shine spark even when I saw the animal doing it right in front of me ; ;
>>
>>256335836

I know some other guy kept saying this earlier and you're just gonna call me a retard or a samefag but the area where you're supposed to learn it is a trap that 99% of players will fall into on their first runs, and since there's a save point at the bottom of that well most players will probably assume it actually leads to something useful.
>>
>>256335942
The first two are designed around the lock-on system automatically snapping your sights to enemies anyway. Motion controls on prime 1 and 2 are way more awkward, but still kind of fun.
>>
>>256335427
OP said worst parts of otherwise good games not worst parts in total shit games, faget
>>
>>256335971
you are joking right?
you dont even need to light speed run to get across that shit you can just regular run and jump over it
and there is nothing over there except super missles and a way back to the original area
the whole thing is completely optional
>>
>>256335572
Fighting Games with 1 frame links:
Street Fighter
KoF
BlazBlue
Skullgirls
Mortal Kombat
Soul Calibur
Tekken

Even games like UMvC3 and Smash have moves, combos, and abilities that can only be pulled off in the span of 1 frame. What fighter are you talking about? Time Killers?
>>
>>256336313

There's an e-tank too.
>>
>>256336164
I wont argue that
my point is that it still isnt necessary to go to
>>
>>256334243
I will be the first, then, to admit that I had more trouble with Sigma's final form than that jump.
>>
>>256335971
>>No you can't, it's too wide unless you go get other powerups and sequence break.
you dont know what sequence break means do you
>>
>>256335436
>You can use them!
>Ignores the fact it's out of place as fuck
>Ignores the fact that's it's stupidly difficult in comparison to the rest of the mechanics.
>>
>>256334243
I speed run megaman x faggot that part isnt hard at all
i'm not even sure what your post is even saying outside of "I CANT DO IT SO ITS BAD"
>>
>>256315991

Not exactly a tutorial. Prevents you from placing zero points in melee or unarmed.
>>
>>256336568
It means you skip over a part that the player is intended to go though.
>>256336313
I think you're thinking of a different hole.

I fell down it while going on a completely main quest related bit IIRC.
>>
>>256336431

It may not be necessary but almost every player will come across it by accident on their first run, so it is necessary to know how to wall jump and with how insanely hard it is to pull off right when you are doing your first run, it is bound to frustrate most players. If it was designed better, in a way that didn't require such precise timing, this thread wouldn't exist.
>>
>>256336434

His form is piss easy with the rolling thing. I forget what it's called. Armored Armadillo's attack. Just learn to dodge his hands and use them as platforms.

Besides if you aren't a total fucking scrub you will know to load up your subtanks before you go in through that one enemy fountain.
>>
Jumping off one wall is easy. Jumping from wall to wall, that's the fucking bullshit.
>>
>>256336867
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Pm3jPmlYH6I#t=587
feel free to skip through it as much as you like but all it is is you go down then loop around back to the beginning
its not necessary at all
>>
>>256336637
You're arguing in fucking circles. This entire thread is just full of "But the walljump mechanics are bullshit because I had a hard time with them! Since I'm too inept to learn them like everyone else, they must be bullshit!"

People like you are the reason that so many games are watered-down trash. Try realizing that most people are completely capable of performing a walljump in Super Metroid and that you are the problem.
>>
>>256336929
its not designed bad its just difficult to pull off
yet again thats not a bad thing
>>
Absolutely hate this part
>>
>>256337335

Having one mechanic that's harder to pull off than every single other one is bad design, though. This isn't the difference between running and shinesparking, this is the difference between fighting spore spawn and fighting ridley.
>>
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>>256337395
fuck you man don't remind us
>>
>>256329625
Because metroids fly :]
>>
>>256336929
My main arguement is yet again wall jumping is completely optional to begin with. it doesnt require sequence breaking to get around or anything stupid like that its completely optional and you dont have to go through it at all.
not to mention it isnt a bad mechanic in the least bit. just becuase it has a bit of a difficulty curve doesnt make it a bad mechanic it just means you have to adjust to it, which isnt a bad thing at all
>>
>>256337538
>Having one mechanic that's harder to pull off than every single other one is bad design
no it really isnt especially for something that yet again is completely optional
>>
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>>256312030
Since I just finished Darksiders, the Black Throne.

>Get the item that you'll use for this dungeon
>Backtrack to main area
>Go on a half hour trek to the miniboss
>Backtrack, stopping for a few braindead puzzles
>Half hour trek to the same exact miniboss
>Light puzzles all the way back
>Go on a final half hour trek to the same goddamn miniboss
>Light puzzles because you haven't learned by now
>Short trek to easy boss

I quit the entire game the first time I played this level. It is like 40% of my total playtime because it's just so fucking long.
>>
>>256337595

Just because it's optional doesn't excuse it being bad, which it is.

>>256337725

read above.

It's not bad because it's hard. It's bad because it takes far more skill to even do one jump between walls than it does to fight Mother Brain.
>>
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Stop. Stop arguing without backing up your claims.
Stop acting as if you know anything about game design.
Stop trying to mask your inability to learn and adapt.

Ultimately if this behavior continues in life you will need to STOP blaming others for your own faults especially people who work hard to make a game that had more thought put into it than the majority of titles ever released and have the gall to say they did their job wrong.
>>
>>256338048
thank you anon
>>
>>256337889
holy shit your fucking stupid
like i cant comprehend how fucking retarded you are
it being so difficult doesnt make it a bad mechanic
its not even that hard to do when you get the rhythem down (which still shouldnt take you more then 10 minutes)
something being harder then anything else isnt bad mechanics it just means you are to much of a bitch to figure out how to get it to work
>>
>>256337889
I will ask you Why is it so bad.
Please tell my why its a bad mechanic, why is it bad game design.
>inb4 because i said so
>inb4 because it just is
you have moved the goal post so many times in this fucking arguement is ridiculous
>>
>>256338171
>something being harder then anything else isnt bad mechanics it just means you are to much of a bitch to figure out how to get it to work

Something you are expected to learn early in the game that is harder than things you are expected to do at the end of the game, optional or not, is bad game design.
>>
>>256338792
why is it bad game design
>>
>>256338892

Can you read? I literally just said it was bad game design because it is signifigantly harder than anything else you are expected to do by that point in the game (aka the very beginning), and harder than anything else you are expected to do by the end of the game. I'm not saying this again.
>>
>>256339120
so its bad design because you struggle with it?
didnt realize difficulty should be thrown out the window in video games
explains why games are the way they are now
>>
>>256327248
This, so much this. I usually got through most of hell okay, but by the time I got to Ballos my health was super low (if I remember right - it's been a few years) and I'd die soon after his transformation.
>>
Just reading the text brought back so many feelings of rage.

/thread
>>
>they dont show you how to do it
>i mean its pixle perfect
>i mean it forces you to do it to progress
>i mean its just bad game design

this thread is gold
>>
Metroid Fusion is like Super Metroid, except better in every way.
>>
>>256339120
>the very beginning

That's about the rising toward mid way through buddy can't get down there without power bombs.
>>
>>256339357
>so its bad design because you struggle with it?

No. Stop acting like I'm bad at a game because one mechanic is far above the skill level the rest of the game expects out of the player.

I struggle with bosses in some games. That doesn't mean they are badly designed. It means they are hard. Being hard isn't inherently bad, but there is a skill curve that games, good games, follow. It should be a diagonal line for the most part. If there is one thing in a game that is a huge spike between the start and the end, that is bad design. This is like saying Labyrinth Zone in Sonic 1 is good design and if I disagree I'm just bad at the game.
>>
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>>256339730
>>
>>256339835
>its bad design
why
>because its hard
why is that bad
>because its bad design
do you see how retarded you sound
why is it being so hard bad design.
seriously why is that a bad thing honest to god i cant figure out why its a bad thing other then "ITS BAD BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT"
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>>256340035
>why is it being so hard bad design.

Because it's harder than everything else surrounding it, it's a spike in difficulty. Do you see how retarded you sound? You can't grasp this simple concept? Here's an image. Maybe it'll help.
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fuckfuckfuck
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>All these stupid anons who can't even wall jump consistently.

Jesus fuck holy shit anons what the fuck is wrong with all of you, do you have brain problems.
>>
Walljumping in Super Metroid is kind of hard to pull off without a lot of practice. That said, they're considerate enough to give you an exit a short ways up the pipe so all you have to do is luck into a it a couple times if you're unable to git gud at it that quickly.
>>
>>256340284
difficulty spikes arent bad game design especially when difficulty spike is completely optional and only takes about 5 fucking minutes to figure out and maybe 10 to master
if you take longer then that you really are terrible at video games.
the mechanic isnt bad in the least bit even if its a bit hard. your exageration is fucking ridiculous if you honestly believe wall jumping is harder than ridley or those gold space pirates
>>
>>256340753
>difficulty spikes arent bad game design

explain how they aren't bad game design. I genuinely want to see what makes you think a game becoming ridiculously difficult for one section then going back to its normal progression is acceptable.

>especially when difficulty spike is completely optional

I've already stated it's only optional in a technical sense since, yet again, most players will end up doing it by accident and be forced to learn it.

>your exageration is fucking ridiculous if you honestly believe wall jumping is harder than ridley or those gold space pirates

It is.
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>>256340991
well i'm done with your shitty troll especially since you dont know how burden of proof works
goodbye faggot
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>play transformice before super metroid
>play super metroid on emulator
>walljumping is incredibly easy
>>
>>256340991
All you said was "It is" you didn't explain how or why you think it is.

This is why we all know you are full of shit.
>>
>>256341731

Difficulty spikes are bad game design because good game design follows progression and gradually becomes harder (and should not become easier.) Spikes are not "gradual" jumps in difficulty and obviously the game becomes easier after you finish them. I don't know what you want me to say, I've explained my side ten times in this thread already while you're just saying I'm full of shit whenever I point out why it's bad. Why don't you explain why difficulty spikes are good? Maybe then we can actually discuss this.
>>
>>256342142
you havent actually explained or proved your point
the only thing you've said is "They are bad because I dont like it" and when someone says prove they are bad you just say "well prove to me they are good". Games dont have to have a linear learning curve there are several games that just have straight up a line of high difficulty or sevearl spikes in difficulty through levels that end up being harder then the boss and are still considered incredibly good (first game that comes to mind is the ghouls and ghosts series)
things dont have to just slowly get harder and difficulty spikes are a way to see how well you can adapt to new problems
>>
>>256342142
Dude, give it up. SM fanboys are retarded.
>>
>>256343032

I love Super Metroid and when it isn't about wall jumping, I will defend damn near anything about it, but wall jumping simply isn't a well designed mechanic.

>>256342614

I've never heard anybody say that the ghouls and ghost games are well designed. Like, ever. Fun, maybe. But certainly not fair or of good design. Even then, a straight line of high difficulty is preferable to a difficulty spike since at least in that situation you expect something hard to come up while you're still in the (relatively) easy parts.
>>
I'm just going to assume that 90% of these posts are bait because there is no way you people are this fucking casual. I'm not even joking, I'm not using the word "casual" or phrase "git gud" in some sort of meme sense or whatever. I am seriously dumbfounded if most of you are actually this bad at the walljump in SM.
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>>256326949
Bad
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>>256343462
I don't know what to do about these people at all either

let's post images
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>>256342142
I'm going to explain why your argument is flawed from the ground up.

First it is not a difficulty spike to begin with. You reach this point after getting the power bomb which by that time the player is will invested into the game and has beaten challenging things before hand.

Second you are not forced as hard as you say you are because even if you fumble around and get to the second ledge in the room you get get out of it.

Third you are blaming the developers for not showing you well enough when they used sound, sight, and give a safe practice environment to learn in. They've gone out of their to teach it to you.

You are just too proud to admit it was your own fault leading you to have issues with it in the first place.

>>256343032
So the retarded fanboys are smart enough to not have any issues with walljumping? .....Huh.
At least go somewhere where people will agree with any tripe you spit out but this imageboard is full of people who actually knows what the fuck they are talking about. Let the redditors and Neogafers and Kotaku posters lap up your sour milk.
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Incompetence General
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>>256312030
>They sing the item get theme
Cute little buggers.
>>
>>256343462
>WAAAAH YOU'RE JUST BAD AT IT!

Again no. Wall jumping is just a bad mechanic.

your post is the bait.
>>256343691
>are smart enough to not have any issues with walljumping
No, they're retarded enough to ignore issues about walljumping and just spout git gud while demeaning everyone who tries to bring up a complaint about their game.

Fuck you.
>>
>>256343870
Look at you, summarizing people's responses with
>>WAAAAH YOU'RE JUST BAD AT IT!

Look how good at arguing you are. You are almost as good at arguing as you are at walljumping. I'm going to make sure that when the next Ace Attorney game comes out, Capcom dumbs it down for you, just so that you don't have any trouble arguing like you did with walljumping.

You'll be happy then, right?
>>
>>256343990
what are the issues with wall jumping
and just say "its too hard"
what about is too hard
its not the frames because they give you plenty of those
>>
How the hell can you have problems with walljumping.

There's a sprite for it. There's a tutorial for it. Hell for all I know, there's probably an idle demo for it.

I was 6 years old and I got out of that walljump pit. Walljumping is easy.

Fuck the Maridia pipe though. The one thing I didn't try on that was a power bomb, as I had none on me and I figured it probably wouldn't work anyway. Then my SNES broke the next day and it ended up being 10-12 years before I finally bombed that fucking pipe. Fuck pipes.
>>
Gonna have a laugh on /vr/ about this thread
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>>256344087
the first thing they show you in the demo on the start screen is you blow that shit up with a super bomb
>>
>jump towards thing
>then jump away from it

>too hard
>>
>>256335113
>I'm not thin skinned in the least

You are. You're defensive too. You also can't take that you're wrong about this. I'm shit at Metroid games and I figured out wall jumping by accident before I even got to that part.

You have no awareness or ability to perceive and adopt new techniques and ideas. That's all this boils down to. You know how every single person that bought and finished Super Metroid didn't have a problem with this, but you did? Yeah.
>>
So, is Symphony of the Night the superior game?
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>>256343990
Anon are you a female? You're pretty irrational and very moody. You can't stick to a topic and are incapable of humility enough to admit your points cannot be proven.
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>>256344042
>Look at you, summarizing people's responses with
Because most of their responses can be sumeried as "you're just bad at it."
recent examples>>256343837, >>256343462
The entire first bit of the thread is "git gud faggot"
Oh and here is another insult>>256344317
You fuck make me want to troll metroid threads. This is fucking awful Wall jumping is a shit mechanic.
>>256344080
this>>256333276
and this>>256334692
>>
>>256344297
Too different to be deemed superior. I love them both, but only play SOTN farily regularly.
>>
>>256344297
No. That flawed game is about as overrated as FF7
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>this thread

God please save us.
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>>256344231
>I'm shit at Metroid games
And you think you can comment on them?

I'm good at metroid games. Walljumping is a completely shit mechanic.

>You have no awareness or ability to perceive and adopt new techniques and ideas.
I do, I've picked up more shit that had less explanation than walljumping. Walljumping is still a terrible mechanic.
>>
>>256343990

Your greentext is exactly right, you faggots are simply bad at it. I'm sorry, I don't know how else to put it. You guys can go back and forth all you want but the fact remains that myself and countless others beat this game and utilized all of these mechanic at the age of fucking 6 or 7. Too hard for you? Play a different game. Not to harp on a tired cliche but it is seriously idiots like you who can't figure shit out that has led us to the hand-holding games we play today.
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>Mfw you all are falling for a bait thread
>>
>>256344518

i want to cuddle with meow.
>>
>>256344451
Did you ever consider that the reason they would say such things is because you're acting like a little bitch and refusing to admit that you could ever be capable of doing anything poorly ever?
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>>256344190
I've never watched idle demos.
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>>256344584
>you faggots are simply bad at it.
No I'm not. I can wall jump just fine. It doesn't make it a good mechanic.
It's a terrible mechanic.
It's stupidly difficult compared to the rest of the game, barely has any explanation, and the entire game would have been better off without it or at least a simplified version of it.
>>
>>256344616

This guy is absolutely right... these threads shouldn't work on me but I have taken the bait this time...
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Either this or the first time you go through Hell's Kitchen
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>>256315116
This. People who disagree should be boiled alive then peeled like a tomato
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>>256344702
>I was just trolling guys!
Please leave.
>>
>>256312030
It's good design because if you don't like the Etecoons for not explaining things to you, you can let them die in the inferno that engulfs Zebes at the end of the game.
>>
>>256344778
Get good, casual baby
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>>256344702
>Try to talk about video games.
>People get upset when they're wrong
>Decide to troll, continuesly ignore shit just to piss off people who are in the right just because they're wrong
What an extremely childish thing for you to do.
>>
>>256344778

Congratulations. That means that you can get the full enjoyment out of the game since you were able to master the techniques. I don't get this weird argument for games creating a completely level playing field for everyone so that we are all winners! Good job! I'm not saying bad mechanic don't exist, but this wall jumping is definitely not high on that list.
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>>256344568
>I'm good at metroid games.
You can't call yourself