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>"Although we're under no obligation to do anyt

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>"Although we're under no obligation to do anything, instead we're going to do our best to make this right, and make you really glad you backed the project!"

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-07-17-kickstarter-funded-yogventures-canned-backers-given-steam-key-for-another-game-instead

Kickstart is truly Kikestarter.
>>
Place your bets on how much yogscast pocketed it after they decided it was doomed to fail.
>>
>Although we're under no obligation to do anything
Aren't they?
>>
>>253589460
>Although we're under no obligation to do anything
They are wrong though.
Also there's already a thread.
>>
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>>253589460

>receive 500k
>run off with money
>backers wonder what's going on
>hurr we can't finish it, here's a shitty steam game, we are sorry
>yogscast face when
>>
Never pay in advance for anything ever never ever.
>>
I bet they will make a new kickstarter soon
>>
>>253589557
No, that's how kickstarter works.
>>
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>Vale ended up sinking more than $25,000 of his own personal money into the project before Yogscast decided it wanted to pull the plug.
>>
Jesus Christ
1) why ever back anything on kick starter after stories like this
2)why support fucks who blatantly don't give a fuck about the people who want to support them

It's maddening
>>
>>253589712
You forgot about his ruined relationship.
Hopefully it was worth the weight.
>>
>>253589712

Wait Valve backed the project too?
>>
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>yfw YogDiscovery
>>
>>253589615
They didnt run off, they paid some amateur dev guy pennies to pretend he was a dev studio, who then went into debt trying to make their game even though he doesn't know how to make games.

Meanwhile they just took the money and now you get a shitty Early Access game no one has heard of if you were dumb enough to back this.

It's sad they dont even have to run off, they can just come out and say "yep, we just took the money"
>>
>Implying they won't get sued
>>
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Did a single sensible person on the planet even want to play this?
>>
>>253589557
The money was sent to a third party company, who burnt it alone and didn't deliver the game. In this situation the Yogscast was as important for the project as Tony Hawks is for the pro skater games.
>>
>>253589557
no, but saying it like this just shows what dicks they are.
>>
>>253590049
>implying anyone from KS will get sued.

Nobody did ever.
>>
>>253590060
>kids
>sensible
>>
>>253589876
I thought it was funny to see Machinima kikeing like they did over that
>>
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Are you doing god's work, /v/?
>>
>>253590201
>Having a reddit account
>>
>>253590049
They can't, they contracted a third party Dev to make the game.
>>
>>253590201
ow the edge
>>
>>253590286
>implying I didn't just make one to post that

Although since I did just make one, I guess I have one now.
>>
>>253590201

It turned into straight bait later but still doing god's work.
>>
>>253590201
>FatAutisticGinger

as somebody who is all of those things, im extremely triggered
>>
>>253590364
TRIGGERWARNING CIS SCUM
>>
>>253589712
>take a look at their channel
>videos only a day old have over 400,000 views
>this has been happening for years

They have to be millionaires by now, will they pay him back?
>>
>>253590201

You lost credibility with your last blow.

should've stopped at "Watching others play videogames instead of playing them yourself"

You lost cred when going full retard and saying vidya is laughable when you are on top of vidya news.
>>
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>>253590201
Well now you have to use it for something, I guess.
>>
This is why EA and the like do the things they do, /v/.
>>
>>253589985

So they didn't run off with the money, they're just retarded. Okay, gotcha.
>>
>>253590339
Please exit the premises, not just for making the account but for actually thinking you're clever/funny.
>>
>>253589712
>>253589985
>>253590061
wow what did this company do, who was it. had they made anything before?
>>
Funfact: People who call Kickstarter a scam are people who lack the maturity or intelligence to not fall for the most obvious of scams and are unable to spend their money wisely.

tl;dr: don't support shitty devs without histor if you're too naive to expect failure and live with it.
>>
>>253590340
>>253590423
If video games didn't exist, shit like this wouldn't happen. Therefore, video games are the cause of evil and jewwery.
>>
>>253590563
They were a bunch of idea guys thinking they were going to make the new Mine.
In the end the last Dev working at the game had like, lost his wife and money. It was pretty funny
>>
>>253590290
They can and they will. Just because it's stupid or doesn't make sense to you doesn't make it impossible. I find it silly mcdonalds went to court for coffee being too hot when they have clear warnings, but it happened.
>>
>Over 200 people put down more than $300, while five backers opted for the most lavish $10,000 tier where you could go and have lunch with Yogscast themselves
>>
>>253589557
/v/ is convinced there is no legal repercussion for using kickstarter as a website for scamming. There actually is indeed repercussions for taking investors money, using it elsewhere and then cancelling the project invested in. What do you think would happen to Universal pictures if investors gave them millions for a picture and after universal got the money they cancelled the picture, went "HAHA" and spent it all on hot tubs?
>>
>>253590732
That case was actually sorta legit if you look up the details. Pic related
>>
>>253590872
>investors money

KS isn't for investing you dense fuck, it's for donating. That's why shit like this happens in the first place.
>>
>>253590872
Kickstarter is a donation platform. not an investment platform
>>
>>253590909
I see, ameriburger education started earlier than I thought.
>>
>>253590732
Those clear warnings came AFTER the lawsuit, it's the reason they made the new clear warnings.
>>
>>253590872
That's not how it works moron. You're just as stupid as the people who got scammed.
>>
>>253590364
cry some more
>>
>>253589460

>We're under no obligation to do anything

This is directly from the FAQ on the kickstarter site...

>Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

>Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (Thisis what creators see before they launch.) This information can serve as a basis for legal recourse if a creator doesn't fulfill their promises. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.

I didn't give to this kickstarter, but fuck people that did should just fucking sue.

Of course that'll never happen, but damn someone should do it.
>>
>>253590732
They actually put those warnings on the cup BECAUSE of that case.
>>
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KIKESTARTER DOES IT AGAIN
>>
The only thing I know about the yogs is that they have three girls on their team, two which are cute
>>
OH YEAH, KICKSTART MY SCAM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4aob4zlhIk
>>
>>253590732
>needing warnings on a cup of coffee
>>
>>253590932
Another teenager who shitposts on v without knowing shit.
KS is a form of investment, and it already happened that someone got sued and lost for not delivering the promised product (the Arkham cards).
Christ I hate summer/v/.
>>
>>253590872
>investing
look at this idiot
>>
>>253590732
McDonald's coffee lawsuit was completely legit. People have mischaracterized that thing for years just because they only see the surface of "lady buyz coffee and spills it, claims 2hot and cries to the courts, what a dumb bitch". If you'd actually look into it, McD's coffee was far hotter than any coffee should ever be and the burns were quite severe. Warning labels don't matter if you're putting out an inherently dangerous product.
>>
These poor fucks
>>
>>253591154
>KS is a form of investment

It's a donation platform. You're genuinely retarded and your attempts to fit in are pathetic. Fuck off back to Reddit.
>>
>>253591096
They said that because the one who made the game was a third party Dev, while they acted more like PR guys
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnkKUlIOD0k

Just look at that shit.
>>
>>253590414
Yogscast are the biggest UK based Youtube Channel, employ like 40 people now have their own fucking offices

It's rather scary seeing as 5 years ago they were just making shitty WOW vids
>>
>>253591263
>developer log
>no commentary of any kind, not even text
>>
>>253591253
>>253591096

I can only imagine where slackjawed retarded teenagers like you will be in 4 years or more.
Well, at your parents' house shitposting on v actually, so nothing will change I guess.
>>
>>253591203
>le american face
>>
>>253591310
They did overgrow though, people like Zoey can barely live by themselves
>>
>>253590732
the McD coffee case was because the coffee was served at a temperature significantly higher than the serving temperature of other places that sell coffee. If she had spilled coffee from Starbucks, for example, she would have only suffered first degree burns
>>
>>253591254

Yeah, I'll bet that those fuckers wouldn't be so smug with the whole "we're not obligated" shit if they were brought to court. From a legal standpoint, I'm almost positive that they're responsible at some level.
>>
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>>253591263

>comments disabled
>>
>>253591246
>Estimated delivery:Dec 2012

:^)
>>
I want to see one of the 10,000 dudes who donated demand their money back and hopefully sue these faggots
>>
>>253591263
>>253591390
>comments disabled
>>
>>253591154
Investment would imply some sort of return on your money.

It's a fucking funding/donation platform and you're a child.
>>
>>253591395
>haha you're a teenager!
>haha you suck!
>haha you live with your parents!

Good shit.
>>
>$10,000 gets you a steam key for a game worth a miniscule amount

top fucking LEL.
>>
>>253591490
I meant commentary over the video. Isn't that the point of a dev log?
>>
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>>253591509
Well go ahead and tell me, what part of what I said wasn't true?
>>
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>everyones in an uproar
>it's going to be forgotten/forgiven/brushed off in 2 months because the fans are loyal deluded cunts
don't believe me? Look at TBFP. People actually defend that mailbag incident or brush it off now.
The world would be a better place if people did hold grudges so others would learn not to make the mistakes they've seen happen elsewhere. But it's not, and people will continue to lie cheat and scam whenever possible
>>
Sounds to me more like they hired a shitty no name studio to work on it who were made of idea men straight out of college, and then realized way too late that they had no idea what they were doing and just now cancelled it. It would be delusional of them to not realize this is a PR disaster for them. Anyone who backed this is stupid, but it's also pretty stupid to say that this was an intentional scam. It's more like giving money to someone to do something they have no idea how to do so they get a company who has no idea how to do it to do it for them.
>>
>>253591618
>KS is a form of investment
>>
>>253591494
>Investment would imply some sort of return on your money.

Like a... product?
A videogame perhaps?
Also nice projecting BRAW. SCHOOL'S OUT. B^)
>>
>>253591618

Well the part where you claimed someone was shitposting when they were just posting what it says on the kickstarter site was kinda stupid and obviously trollish.
>>
>>253591618
>Kickstarter is an investment platform

Right there you fucking mongoloid.
>>
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>>253591521

They won't even fulfill the original planned lunch with them for those big backers. That's funny.
>>
>>253589557
It's like when you give a hobo money to buy himself some food.
He's under no obligation to not spend it on drugs.
>>
>>253591680
Jesus Christ. Why are you even here?
>>
>>253591154
>investment
Oh, so when the game starts selling you start getting money back, do you? You know, like an investor?

No wait, you don't take any cut of the earnings. So it's a donation. You don't buy shares and you don't invest. You donate to help fund a project.
>>
>Blaming KS

All they do is host pages and handle the money. It's a site based around investments. It's not their fault if people can't identify poor investments.
>>
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>>253591680
>Like a... product?
>A videogame perhaps?
Money, you fucking retard. That's what investing money is. You're an actual fucking retard if you need this explained to you.
>>
>>253591802
>investments

There's that word again
>>
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So who else is gonna use KS to get rich?

I mean it's so easy, and all you need is a paypal account.
>>
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>>253591802
>investments
>>
>>253591310
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtX084wy-uM

Shit, they do. They are set up like they actually create content when all they do is record Steam games with Fraps. Is this really necessary?
>>
>>253591521
They said they would try to adapt those prizes for the backers, I hope they at least do stuff like having a lunch with those poor fucks.
>>
>people claiming Yogcasts gets off jack free because there was 3rd party developing the game
From their Kikestarter:
>Why are the Yogscast making a game?
>We feel incredibly lucky to have been given the opportunity to entertain you as we play games made by other people. For the past four years we've shared experiences together in World of Warcraft, a wealth of betas and new releases, and of course our most popular Minecraft series Shadow of Israphel. The characters of Honeydew and Xephos and all the others have sprung to life out of these amazing journeys and we think it's time to give them a game all their own.
>WE
>WE
>WE
Now to hope not everyone who donated is a braindead zombie that likes to get double penetrated by their Yogverlods
>>
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>>253591914

People are just so stupid. See those dumb kickstarter scams and the 50k potato salad. People are fucking retarded.
>>
>>253591707
>>253591663
Okay kid, Economy 101 starts now:
>>253591096

If you give money to someone, expecting a product to come out of them in the near future, that also counts as an investment.
I know you imagine investments like these sweaty guys in a suit in front of monitors being all angry and loud because hollywood tripe is half of what your life is made of (the other is shitty vidya), but it really is as simple as that.
Now go back to browse /b/.

>>253591703
You need to learn how to read instead.
>>
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>KS is a form of investment
>>
>>253591618
holy shit dude you are just digging yourself deeper
>>
>>253591790
>>253591871
>>253591914
in·vest·ment
in?ves(t)m?nt/Submit
noun
1.
the action or process of investing money for profit or material result.

>or material result

Are you done now?
>>
>>253592010
>50k potato salad
What the hell?
>>
Yogscast have been scummy for really long now already. They really think they're better than what they really are and always try to find ways to earn more money. This Yogdiscovery thing is just big proof that they're just in it for the money anymore.

If they really loved what they were doing they wouldn't care in seeing a small dip in their revenue.

Someone got a list of all the shit they've done?
-Hosted a shitty panel on Minecon and got banned
-Yogventures
-Yogdiscovery
-Being faggots

What more?
>>
This game and that Tobuscus Adventures game are both kinda disgusti examples of Internet personalities completely fucking over their fanbases. You know what the worst thing is? Most people who got screwed over are still watching their YouTube channels, giving these fuckers more money daily.
>>
>>253592025
>If you give money to someone, expecting a product to come out of them in the near future, that also counts as an investment.

That's not what fucking "investment" mean you fucking mongoloid, that's what "trade" is. "Investment" means you invest money into some project expecting it to earn you more money.
>>
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>>253592025
>Economy 101
>ignores the actual economic definition of investing money
How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when all you do is spew diarrhea out of the front of your face?
>>
>>253591995
amazing
>>
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>>253591395
>>253591154
I've noticed that projecting people to be teenagers seems to be a very teenage thing to do.
Let me guess, you're what, 18? 19?
I could maybe understand if people were acting immature or doing something completely irrational but they're disputing the legal definition of a website's mode of business.
The minute they disagreed with you, you claimed they're teenagers to try and add authority to your own argument, probably because you realized you have very little in the way of evidence or real knowledge.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, I don't know the legal status of Kickstarter, but you're acting like a real teenager.
>>
>>253592091

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/324283889/potato-salad
>>
>>253591995
Nice work, Nancy Drew
>>
>>253592110
>Yogdiscovery
That is just Machinima and other youtubers kikeing out, seriously, I can't find what is wrong in this case,
>>
>>253592142
Yes it is.
>>253592074
>>
>>253592074
Investment != buying you stupid sack of shit. see >>253592142
>>
>>253592110
Eh, dumb people deserve to have their money taken away.

I'd do it too. At least until the world stops being retarded....never.
>>
>>253592025

Hahaha, man you call people kid and then have no fucking clue what you're talking about. You see the irony right?
>>
>>253592226
It's not. Your quoting a shortened dictionary entry and not the actual economic definition of the term "investment". Please stop.
>>
>>253592110
being fat cunts on youtube who pander to little autistic boys and girls in the worst game graphically and mechanically ever created by the biggest scamming jew in the entire history of the world oh god hitler please save us i regret everything
>>
Reminder that they didn't learn and have started work on a new game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvg58fdgl0M&list=UUVk6LHxQ4TnHySEd0e6143g
>>
>>253591203
>>253591439
>McD's coffee was far hotter than any coffee should ever be
>significantly higher than the serving temperature of other places that sell coffee
Except it wasn't. It was served at a completely industry-standard temperature (82c). Starbucks serves theirs at the same temperature (79-85c). McDonalds have not changed their policy on what temperature to keep coffee at in the 20 years since the suit.

Her burns were so severe because she dumped the entire cup in her lap, and because she couldn't unbuckle her seatbelt fast enough to minimise contact. It had nothing to do with magical lava coffee.
There's a reason every other lawsuit over coffee served at the same fucking temperature has been thrown out.
>>
>>253592038
There's a reason it's for business and "Fund your life projects" are strictly prohibited.
>>
>>253589557
As per Kickstarter rules, you have fulfill the backer rewards
>>
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rumor is yogscast got 50% of the game's NET revenue (so since the game got 550k, they got 275k, even though there's fees and shit)

this is going to be amazing
>>
>>253592232
Wow thanks I'm going to trust you over a dictionary definition!

Keep calling people shit and mongoloid it really helps your point.
>>
>>253591310

Wtf? They made a company of manchilds streaming autistic minecraft video's all day?
>>
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>>253591837
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/invest
>to use (money), as in accumulating something: to invest large sums in books.

>2. to devote (effort, resources, etc, to a project)

You're an illeterate retard, did you even finish Highschool?

>>253591787
To call out retards like you, you have no place arguing with adults.
>>
>>253592215
Jesus fucking christ.
>>
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>>253592445
>dictionary.com
NAH

NAH

NAHNAHNAH

I'M DONE

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'M SO FUCKING DONE

THREAD OVER

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>
>>253592332
>>253592232
>>253592226
>>253592160
>>253592142
>>253592074
Hey kids, being pedantic doesnt make you smart, shut the fuck up and stop shitting up the thread
>>
>>253592221
I'm fine with them to get paid by devs but I don't like this new system they're gonna have without having any referral links. A sale spike can come from anywhere, not only youtube. Famous people on Twitter and Twitch could also increase sales of a game.

You really want to see these faggots get even richer without even doing anything for it?
>>
>>253592431
>>253592445

>talks about the nature of the term "investment"
>his only "proof" is a shortened sentence from some online dictionary and not an actual economic definition of "investment"
>calls others retarded

?
>>
>>253589460
>videogame related kickstarters are truly kikestarters
Fixd. Gaming proving once again how low they are compared to other forms of entertainment.
>>
>>253592360
At least this one isn't funded by the crowd.
>>
>>253592173
>>253592220
And not just that
>Winterkewl’s artists, modelers, animators and programmers are partnering with us on this project to create the game our community wants.
>PARTNERING
They are CLAIMING they are partially responsible for the project on the kickstarter page, someone fucking sue these idiots.
>>
who?
>>
>>253592546
I bet you really want to downvote all those people
>>
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>>253592546
>use a word correctly
>"Y-Y-Y-Y-Y-YOU'RE J-J-J-J-J-J-JUST B-B-B-B-B-BEING P-P-P-P-P-P-P-PEDAN-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-TIC!!!!!!!!!!!!"
>>
>>253592515
>>253592546
>>253592563
>Doesn't bother to cite anything
>Just keeps insulting people when they're clearly wrong
>Pedantic

lol
>>
>>253592585
Right, but see putting your name on something and feeling responsible for it does not equate to legal financial responsibility.

As has been said earlier, it's like if you were to try and sue Tony Hawk because Pro Skater 2 turned out to be a scam.

No, it's the people making the game that are actually responsible.
>>
You know I'm confused. Kickstarter obviously isn't just a donation, because heck you're expecting stuff back for the money you got. But it's obviously not an investment because as people here have said, you're not buying into the company or anything, you're just paying for a game or some extra stuff with your game.
>>
>>253592714
You need people to explain you what fucking "investment" mean? Are you literally 14?
>>
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>>253592714
>can only cite made up dictionary entries
>>
>>253592552
I don't.
But it is seriously up to the devs, plus this case just happened because they started to disclaimer what they were doing on the description of their videos (Basically saying they were paid for that).
Now imagine how many other youtubers are doing the same exact shit without telling anyone,
>>
>>
>>253592358

>oh god hitler please save us i regret everything
It's too late now goy, welcome to shekel hell
>>
>>253592563
>semantic argument
>"dictionnaries don't count"
>>
>>253592794
But it says right there they are the ones partially responsible
>we are making the game
>partnering with the studio to make a game
You'd probably be sueing both the studio and the YogFags, not that I care but they sure as fuck have responsibility on this thing.
>>
>>253592714
>being so mad he even quotes himslf

Jesus Christ fuck off back to Reddit.
>>
Americans really are foolish to like Yogscast.
Being a son of the Ælfric myself I know that is 'quircky' humour is made entirely for foreign foke, like only retarded children like Doctor Who, as an example. Yogscast is the same
>>
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>want 250k bucks
>get 500k instead
>hundreds of people gave them at least 100 bucks each
>find out later you're too incompetent to get shit done
>keep the money
>"even though we don't have to we'll be gratious enough to compensate you. see, we're totally bros, stay frosty mateys"
>give everyone 10 bucks worth of indie trash

i really would have loved kickstarter to be a viable alternative to publishers, but with shitheads scamming you left and right it will never happen. thank god i only backed competent devs so far, not some "idea guys" who got this really cool idea for a game but don't know jack fucking shit about coding, programming, design or anything related to making a video game.
>>
>>253592025
>If you give money to someone, expecting a product to come out of them in the near future, that also counts as an investment.
Not in a legal sense, no.
You invest in property, businesses or equity.
The idea is you gain ownership or part ownership which you can make profit from, in the form of dividends or possibly by reselling.
Simply preordering a consume product that requires funding is not an investment.
As consumers we think of them as investments, as we're putting down money and expecting a reward, but that's not what they are.
You don't get ownership of the kickstarter company, you don't share in their profits, you don't own their building or their equipment.
You're not an investor.
>>
>>253592848
>Calling things made up makes it made up

Wow anon what's that made up language you're using?
>>
I just think it sounds retarded to put "yog" in front of everything.

Just how unoriginal can you be?
>>
>>253592794

Didn't the Yogscast people hire that team in the first place, and weren't they tied into the project to the point where lunch with them was the highest level backer reward?

Also Tony Hawk never kickstarted a game that didn't come through. Maybe people would be suing his ass if he did. Also he didn't directly hire the developers to take money from people.
>>
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>>253592515
>>253592563
>>253592074
>>253592160
>>253592332
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/investment

>SCHOOL'S OUT

See kids? This is why you'll never amount to anything.

>>253592186
>Let me guess, you're what, 18? 19?
Over 20 buddy.
You can tell by the fact I actually know the english language.

And No, they're being asshats denying the proper definition of a term they could simply LOOK UP ON GOOGLE OR A DICTIONARY anytime.
That's why they're teenagers. They think they're right because "DUUUUDE THE TEEVEE TOLD ME SO".
Just like you, you lazy uneducated fuck.

>I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, I don't know the legal status of Kickstarter, but you're acting like a real teenager.
>I've noticed that projecting people to be teenagers seems to be a very teenage thing to do.

Ah, I see.
>>
>>253592794
You think the game would have been funded, or atleast gotten as much money as it did, without this video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIod3ZUBpys
>>
>>253590834
>Pay $10,000 to eat with some Autistic lardass
I don't care if it was with Henry Rollins, I wouldn't spend that much to eat with anybody. Do Minecraft people really have that many autismbux at their disposal?
>>
>>253592916
>semantic argument about an economic term
>quotes fucking dictionary.com

If you even bothered to quote M-W:
>Definition of INVESTMENT
>the outlay of money usually for income or profit; capital outlay

Now fuck off.
>>
>>253589557
They are obliged to fulfill what they promised (and sold) to backers.
That includes the game itself, so it has to be released, even if unfinished.

When you "pledge", you buy stuff.
You buy a poster, a badge, a mug and a game.
They are sending out badges and mugs right now, but no game.

You should be able to sue them, but they will just release what they've got and call it done, they dont have to finish it per say.
>>
>>253592916
>semantics
It's the actual fucking definition of the word, you dopey cunt.

Fucking summer children need to fuck off back to reddit for the next two months.
>>
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>They can't make a video game with $570,000
Seems like an adequate amount of money to make a decently sized video game to pander to the inflated egos of a bunch of youtube celebs. I wonder how much of that money went to the actual making of the game.
>>
>>253589460
>Lets give money to retards who've never made a video game before

That's a great idea! I wonder why nobody has thought of this before?
Kickstarter is fine for people who've actually fucking made games before and are looking for capital. Only retards would give money to some random faggots that play video games on youtube for a living to make one
>>
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>>253593027
>using the oxford dictionary to define a legal term
holy shit this has to be bait.
No one is this stupid.
>>
>>253593027
>still quoting online dictionarys when talking about a specific economic term
>still being this mad
>still calling opponents "kids" to somehow elevates himself

Jesus Christ.
>>
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>>253589615
Isnt that Yogcast clan already making ~500k per year on youtube?
I dont follow them, but I was left with the impression that they are one of the very top gaming channels.
>>
>>253592849
No, it's up to the law. Payola is illegal. You don't leave gaping holes in the society fabric for sharks to feed and then blame braindead fish for falling in.

Fuck you you fucking retard.
>>
>>253593027
g8 b8 rebbit
>>
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>>253593027
>http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/investment
>The action or process of investing money for profit
>for profit
Thanks for proving yourselves wrong, champ.
>>
>>253593027
>And No
Way to know the English language, bub.
>>
>>253590201
>Quentinvisitsreddit.jpg
>>
>>253593165

now im hungry for something sweet

>tfw no sweets in the house
>>
>>253592954
They spent the money on their useless offices before they found they were too incompetent.
It's not really their fault their guy fell through.
>>
>>253593021
Does that matter? The kickstarter page is in the name of Winterkewl games and nobody else, they are the ones that agreed to any terms of responsibility the site laid out, they are the ones that received the money and they are the ones ultimately responsible for anything promised in the kickstarter
>>
>>253592025
>If you give money to someone, expecting a prouct to come out of them in the near future that also counts as investment.
I 'invested' in a burger at mcdonalds today because I gave money to someone and expected a burger to be delivered to me in the near future.
Oh wait I didn't and you're a moron who doesn't understand what buying things is
>>
>>253590201
>want to make a point
>use profanities to get it across

If I had a reddit account I'd downvote you.
You can make this post without saying autistic, ass or dick all the time.
>>
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>>253593027
>mfw I had to take 3 economics courses for my degree and this man is completely wrong
stay mad /v/
>>
>>253593272
You have something sweet in your house, you
>>
>>253593319

Even if Yogscast guys were just the ones who hired Winterkewl, that makes them legally responsible as well.
>>
>>253593319
If it actually goes to court it won't be as simple as that, the Yogscast is partially responsible, it's not just a licensing deal like the Tony Hawk games.
That is, IF it goes to court. Reading the comments people posted here I have my doubts about the intellect of the people who backed this heap of smelly rectums.
>>
>>253593374
video games
>>
I like the yogscast, I don't think I've ever admitted that on /v/ because of the sheer amount of replies I'll get
>>
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>>253593153
>Use a dictionary to know the definition of words
Yeah buddy, you should do it too sometimes.
>>253593164
>specific economic term
>investment
You're a kid because you're so fucking ignorant I can't conceive anything else about you.

>>253593220
>A thing that is worth buying because it may be profitable or useful in the future:

;^)

>>253593228
>ah-h-ha... y-you made a typo
Stay assmad.
>>
>>253593374
>promoting self cannibalism
>>
>>253593192
If the payment isn't secret there is no Payola.
>>
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>Although we're under no obligation to do anything
Now watch everyone else cancel their project.

>"You were supposed to make a game!"
>"Yogscast."
>"Oh, I understand, at least you tried..."
>>
>>253593192
>payola is illegal
You must be new to this music thing.
>>
>>253593510
Please tell me you're going for the damage control via shitposting right now.
>>
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>>253593272
Here is some chinese gutter oil.
If you dont know about it, google it.
>>
>>253593467
Yeah. but it's just kids that backed this.With their parents' money. And the kids are the ones defending it.

There will be some fucking irate mothers and fathers once they find out what the fuck had happened
>>
>>253591650
It's no secret people want to live vicariously through these e-celebs since they're more real to them and they're sad and lonely. Why do abused wives stay with their husbands? Attention at any cost. This is why people slump into their tumblrs twitters and deviantarts so they can welcome all unwarranted praise and block all criticism.
>>
>>253593529
Criminal activity is criminal activity, be it covert or not, you fucking retard.

Here, I'll take your wallet openly, guiding you through my actions every step of the way. You fucking retard.
>>
>>253593351
>economics
>right and wrong

Economics is less scientific than psychology.
You fucks cant agree on a single theory.
Or even two rival theories.
Or even ten theories from which to choose.

Everybody has their opinion and calls it fact.
>>
>>253592956

>Simply preordering a consume product that requires funding is not an investment.

If kickstarter is the same as preordering, then in my country I would be legally entitled to a full refund if I did not receive the game I preordered.
>>
>>253593615
>believing that crap
>>
>>253593510
You successfully managed to say nothing in a 50 word post.
>>
>>253593696
There's a pretty fucking unified "opinion" of what investment is.
>>
>>253591650
that image triggered me
please delete it, thx
>>
>>253593510
>thinks the english dictionary definition of words is equal to the legal definition of terms
holy shit you are completely speaking out of your ass now.
If no legal definition or precedent exists a judge can interpret dictionary meanings for certain rules but that's hardly the case.
For example the legal definition for rape can be drastically different to the English dictionary definition, and the legal definition varies from country to country.
God damn, this is either incredible bait or one of the most ironic case of pot calling the kettle black I have ever seen.
>>
>>253592546
Neither does barfing up a thesaurus
>>
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>>253593791
>>
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>>253593510
>because it may be profitable
Why do you keep shitting on your own arguments, champ?
>>
>>253593706

That's the same in this country too. It's just that kickstarter leaves it up to the customers to take legal action if they get screwed. Which is BS because kickstarter skims what, 5% of the money off the top of kickstarters?
>>
>>253593634
Who gives a shit. They let their kids buy a shit sandwich that turned out to be shit.
Boo fucking hoo lots of people buy useless shit. The retards on here seem to think that just because it's documented it's somehow their money and they should give a shit because muh large amount.
>>
>>253593665
You are the fucking retarded, Payola refers exclusively to a kind of sneaky advertisement trough secret payment. There is no crime if they do say they are getting paid/partnered with the developer.
>>
>>253593745
I didnt follow the chain of replies, I was just quoting your post and smugness.

I understand investment as "buying share of a project with the expectation to receive more payment when its realized" or something like that.
>>
>>253593891
>>253593806
>>253593793
>>253593745
>>253593706
>>253593351
>>253593323
>>253593220
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL EM IN
>>
>>253593745
You can invest time to get skills.
You can invest effort to get fitness.
>>
>>253593706
>if Kickstarter
Kickstarter is like the owner of the building where you bought your mcfatburger from. You don't sue the company that provides the building and the lights for mcfatburgers failure to deliver their product do you?
>>
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>>253594089
>i was just pretending
good one
>>
>>253589830
>Vale

It's the lead developer, he put $25,000 of his own money into it because he was so confident in it, but Yogscat were seriously expecting the team of like 5 inexperienced people to develop a massive AAA open world game, when they realised it wasn't happening the canned the project despite him working so hard on it.

They completely fucked over the guy, they didn't see potential in his product and allow him to keep working on it, they simply stopped feeding him KS money because they realised it would be smarter for them to just pocket it. No fucking way did they run out of 500k in this timeframe.
>>
>>253594134
It's still means investing something with the intent of getting something more out of it.
>>
>>253594134
that's not the correct use of the term in a legal sense though, that's just the way people have adopted the term and re-purposed it for everyday use.
That shit does not pass in court.
You can't sue a gym because you invested time and money and didn't end up looking how you wanted to.
>>
>>253594089
>merely pretending

Good job Reddit, you know all of vees memes.
>>
>>253594285
You can, actually. It has been done.
>>
>>253594372
I guarantee it was not treated as an investment but as a product or service that did not meet the agreed standards.
>>
>>253593706
Yes kickstarter forced you to part with money to buy shit that might or might not get made.
Great argument for the judge there.
>>
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So why the fuck did anyone think giving free money to SA Goons was a good idea?
>>
Children who are in love with e-celebs
>>
>>253594134
You get the skills so you improve yourself and earn more money (profiting in the future)
You invest effort to get fitness to attain fitness (for health and vtality)

You buy a burger from McDonalds and eat it then shit it out.
>>
>>253594469
Yes, thats true. It was fraud, I think.
Apparently the contract for the yearly subscription included an explanation of the service with details about the personal trainer and how he will help you achieve what results, etc.
>>
>>253589712
How do you even do that? What did the money go towards? Maybe I'm missing something here, but as far as I know the only money he would have to spend would be for a license for whatever engine the game was being developed in.
>>
>>253594643
You invest in a burger, eat it and you attain energy.
>>
>>253590643
Is this fox news?
>>
If Kickstarter is investment, why don't backers receive the profits made by a successful company?

That's the traditional form of investing, at least. I give you $50 to make a company. If you succeed, you pay me back the $50 and more. If you fail, I lose the $50.

Kickstarter's model is totally different from that. If it's "investing" (which it isn't), it sure as hell isn't traditional investing.
>>
>>253594818
you invest in a onahole and you gain orgasms.
>>
It's not their obligation, because they shoehorned all of the work and blame onto a group of inexperienced devs. They fucking threw those devs under a bus to clear their name, because they realised the game would end up being a disappointment.

They attached their name to a huge project and used their fans to fund said project, so they should be held somewhat accountable for it's failure. But they wont be, and their shitty fanbase will eat up whatever half baked excuse they throw at them.

Such is life.
>>
>>253594920
It's not investing in a legal sense.
It's only investing in an informal consumer sense, like how someone might say they invested $400 in a PS4 to wait for some good games to get released.
Sure it's fine in casual conversation but that's not the legal definition of investing.
>>
>>253590643
if jews didn't exist, we wouldn't have to kill them

ch8 m8 ath8st
>>
>>253592365

Source. I'm pretty sure the source those guys are using is the HBO documentary Hot Coffee where they showed McDonalds did start serving their coffee at much lower temperatures after the incident.
>>
>>253594928
>>253594818

You invest in a 4chan pass and gain shitposting without captcha
>>
>go on the yogscast reddit
>"Anyway, great news! Really happy about the email"
>"Lewis: Maker of Things Right"
>"All that's coming to light now is that Lewis & co are actually doing something to make up for it."
>"I'm glad that the Yogscast aren't just shrugging this off saying "Oh well, it failed" they've partnered up with another project to at least try to partially deliver on what they promised."
>"It hasn't been a matter of fraud or theft or scamming, just a sad tale of over ambition."
>"I think this is very honorable seeing as they, as Lewis says, didn't have to do anything..."
I have no words
pls don't make me go back there
>>
>>253595241
you invest in filters and gain better shitposting immunity
>>
>>253594818
>>253594818

You don't seem to see the point of investment being some form of delayed gratification do you?
You buy shit so it will do what you intend it to do right now.
You invest in shit so it will do something for you in the future.
>>
>>253592215
>https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/324283889/potato-salad

Top fucking kek. You're just mad people with more money than you are having fun doing stupid bullshit. I think I may pledge a bit since it wont have any repercussions on whether or not I eat anything today.
>>
>>253593510
Just stop! I cannot believe somebody is this upset just because they don't know the difference between an investment and a donation.

I refuse to believe that you're this stupid. Just stop the bait, please.
>>
>>253590201
>having a leddit account

you might as well kill yourself, because it's the same as having testicular cancer and aids
>>
>>253595379
not the legal definition of an investment buddy.
For one, by your definition you're investing in fast food because you pay and get it served to you afterwards.
What's the right amount of time to have to wait before a purchase becomes an investment?
That's why there are legal definitions for these terms, to avoid people throwing them around to mean what they want.

Investments are for profit.
>>
>>253595274
>"It hasn't been a matter of fraud or theft or scamming, just a sad tale of over ambition."

Typical reddit "everything has an existential meaning and I'm SO intelligent for noticing" mentality.
>>
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kikestarter back then
>>
>>253595379
I invest in a bag of apples, so I can have an apple a day for a few days.
>>
Wow.


And I thought /v/ was one of the better boards that didn't respond to low to mid quality bait (at least when it isn't about video games).
>>
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>>253595657
go to bed kid.
try to sleep knowing everyone is laughing at you.
>>
>>253595274
>Go to a fanbase community
>Everyone there is willingly to trust their idols
>SHOCK
Seriously, this kinda of stuff is expected, you have to fuck up really hard to have your fanbase turned against you (Starbound comes to mind)

Also, people are so used to get scammed now, that even a barely decent try to makes up for their mistake sounds like an angelical act for those shit-eaters.
>>
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>>253592215
Fucking hell.

>>253595454
It must feel good making some random fuck rich because 'lol haha so random and funny XD'. What do you possibly stand to gain from donating? Having a laugh because some doofus got rich by making a 'funny' kickstarter?
>>
>>253595801
Apparently, he's going to give it all to charity.

As far as I can tell, if someone wanted to, they could be a dick about it and ask why it was going to charity and not potato salad. They might even be able to file a complaint, or something.
>>
>>253595753

B-but it's 9 am.
>>
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>>253592215
the best part about this is that according to him thousands of backers are entitled to a bite of potato salad.
>>
>>253594920
Because it's not an investment. You aren't buying equity. You're buying a game/product/service/garbage/realization of some concept/
They're selling you something in exchange for money.
Crowdfunding is not investment. It's a way for companies to get capital. they generate capital buy selling products that they intend to make and taking that money to create the products and services that are promised. It's in essence 'microfinancing' with users bartering the promised products for cash. It's not investing in the same way that banks aren't investing in you when they're offering you a loan.
>>
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>>253595932

>mfw even an ironic kickstarter fails
>>
>>253595905
>the guy gets sued for not spending it all in a potato salad.
But seriously, at least this one is legit, the dude is not fooling anyone here.
>>
>>253595132
2007, Cambridge News, "Burger chain sued after boy's ordeal"
>[A McDonald's spokesman] says its black coffee should be served at 85 °C, plus or minus five degrees. The coffee we tested was 82.9C.

2013, HuffPo/Clovis Independent/others, another woman is suing because she was served coffee at McDonalds that was "in excess of 175f/79c."
>>
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>>253592215
>>253595454
Im thinking of doing one of these stupid ones.. it becomes a meme and the sillyness of it makes people want to join in the big 'joke'

Maybe a kikstarter to help me make a Pizza for myself and if the money is reached ill post a pic of the Pizza

>Pledge $2 and you get entered into the poll of which toppings to use
>>
>>253595598
I like to think Reddit is full of teenagers who think they are smart, but have no real world experience. When they grow up and figure out that people are out there who will take advantage of you given the opportunity, they will eat their words.
>>
It is a breach of contract and it aggravates the matter for them to outright say "we're under no obligation to do anything". Kickstarter makers need to stop this "back us for $50, and you'll receive the full game and a t-shirt!" stuff, because that means it wasn't just a simple donation, there were conditions under which money has changed hands, and if those conditions are broken then there is possibility for legal reprisal.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140504/07153727119/washington-state-files-first-consumer-protection-lawsuit-against-kickstarter-project-that-failed-to-deliver.shtml
>Washington State's Attorney General has decided to file a consumer protection lawsuit against one project that failed to deliver
>The state’s top lawyer, Bob Ferguson, said Thursday his office has filed the first consumer-protection complaint in the U.S. to target a Kickstarter fraud.

http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/when-kickstarter-investors-want-their-money-back.html
>In May 2012, Singh filed paperwork in Arizona's Justice Court citing breach of contract. He sued both Quest and his business partner, Juan Cespedes
>Because he never incorporated Hanfree, Quest was personally liable for the refunds. But the money from the backers was gone, spent on engineers and contract manufacturers. The lawsuit forced him into bankruptcy.

https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use?country=US
>You shall not ... Submit Content, that ... is false, misleading, or inaccurate
>Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.
>>
>>253595585
No you bought a bag of apples and chose to eat them later.
The bag of apples won't grow more apples and give you more apples in the future.
If you invested in an apple tree, fertilizer and worked on it then received free apples then it would be an investment.
>>
>>253595801

>It must feel good making some random fuck rich because 'lol haha so random and funny XD'. What do you possibly stand to gain from donating? Having a laugh because some doofus got rich by making a 'funny' kickstarter?

Yeah. I actually find that pretty damn funny. Also, it fits my personal general philosophy of life (everything is random and meaningless, but we should still make the best out of it). I'm happy for the guy.

You just sound jelly it isn't you. He'll probably give most of it to charity anyway.
>>
>>253596227
'when they grow up'

anon the average person is as naive as these teenagers you talk about- even adults
>>
>>253595905
I can't see shit on the page about donating to charity (though I only skim read it). How is he going to fulfil all of those rewards if it's all going to charity? Theoretically he's gonna have to send out like 1500 packages
>>
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>>253596067
>>253595932
>>253596079
>has to send 4000+ people a bite of potato salad in the mail
>has to add 3000+ ingredients of each individual's choosing to the salad
>>
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>>253596201

>no one has kickstarted the /v/ mansion yet
>>
>>253594787
eating pims
>>
>>253591253
>It's a donation platform.

Legally its an investment. Hence why you can sue in the FAQ if the product invested in is not delivered.

Yeah kikestarter is the one causing the trouble by using the terminology of DONATION when legally it is not. There have been several cased of charities being sued and LOSING at the Scotus level for not delivering on promised rewards.

LEGALLY if you tie a reward into a project you must deliver said reward of refund the money in the USA. LEGALLY its not a donation if there is a reward of good or service attached.
>>
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>>253591658
>implying this wasn't their plan from the start
>implying they didn't expect the studio to crash and burn so they could pocket the money
>implying they didn't expect people keep sucking their dicks after being robbed because their fanbase consists of 12 year olds and fat autistic neckbeards
>>
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Based Matt Lees made a fucking epic video on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM7zsTJVTGo
>>
>>253596354

>Also, it fits my personal general philosophy of life (everything is random and meaningless, but we should still make the best out of it).


You clearly need God in your life you cunt.
>>
>>253590201
>only that few responses
Underrated post.
>>
>>253596227
You hit it on the head. If the Dashcon BDSM panel is any indicating it's the typical horny, angry teenagers who have been given a voice within this generation due to social media and think they rule the world. No longer do they have to conform to the old generation since they think they're in charge and believe participation in various things makes them the solution.
>>
>>253589548
It says in the article that the dude invested 25,000 of his own money before it got canned. I don't know if that is true or not but at least read the article first.
>>
>>253595801
>Hey guys give me money to make potato salad
>Okay lol here

>FUCKING SCAMSTARTER I FUCKING HATE YOU FOR MAKING SOME DUDE I DON'T EVEN KNOW RICH OFF MONEY FROM PEOPLE I DON'T KNOW
>>
How is the McDonalds case related to Kickstarter? It's always cited and argued over but it's clearly a case of negligence, not breach of contract.
>>
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>>253596309
What's great is that Youtube producers generally don't treat their channels like actual businesses and that leaves them with little protection from losing pretty much everything.
>>
>>253596582

No, I do not.


I tip my fedora in disgust, sir.
>>
>>253596753
>legally obligated
>tos

choose one
>>
>>253596517
>Legally its an investment.
no.
Legally it is not because you're not purchasing ownership or part ownership of a property, business or capital in order to make a profit.
Just because people use the term investment in casual conversation to mean something that rewards them later does not make it the legally recognized meaning of the word.
As stated earlier, you pay for fast food 5 minutes before you receive it.
By your definition that would consitute an investment.
It's not.
There is no waiting period defined by law where after which a purchase becomes an investment.
You could argue that Kickstarter is not a donation but a purchase, but either way it is not legally an investment.
>>
>>253596575
>Based
>Matt Lees
>>
>>253596670
Lol calm down bro I never said it was a scam, I just think it's stupid that people want to make somebody rich over an ironic kickstarter campaign. Most people get mad as fuck on here when a lazy dev puts out a shit game and makes 50k, but when this guy does literally nothing and gets it? "lol it's fine just a bit of fun! :^)"

If he's giving it all to charity it's a different story, though.
>>
>>253596575
>giving views to that SJW
glad I clicked the image before the video.
>>
>>253596908
thanks i wanted to explain to thatg guy how retarded he was but i'm too lazy

HOPE YOU GOT THE MESSAGE SON
YOU DUM
>>
>>253596621
Actually it's more that those typical horny, angry teenagers are able to insulate themselves into their own little shitland of groupthink and finding other little shits that think like they do more easily thanks to social media.
I think that Chanology already showed that grouping together a group of retards that seem to think that having a sizeable group of people as retarded as you some how makes you not retarded.
>>
>>253596309
Yup basic contract law.

And legally if a good or service is promised in exchange for money. Yeah you can sue them for not fulfilling on that promise.

The semantics arguing dipshits that say it says DONATION, dont understand that LEGALLY their jew lawyer style reading of words is trumped by case law on the issues of goods promised for donations. Scotus case form the 80s where a charity promised bags to people but never delivered got sued because of this and lost. Trying to use the BUT ITS A DONATION defense.

The ones at fault for the bad terminology here is actually kickstarter.
>>
>>253596890
You can't be this much of a retarded parrot
>>
>>253596517

wow you are a retard
>>
Regardless of your opinion on trivial lawsuits like McDonalds, I'd rather Americans have the right to complain about anything and everything than for big corporations to essentially decide what we can complain about (Which is basically what is happening).
>>
>>253596890
Stop being an ignorant fucking teenager.

This had an exchange of money for promised goods. This is not just a simple TOS issue. Its contract law.
>>
>>253597206
This is a donation not a purchase of any goods.
>>
>>253597192
you can complain about anything, it doesn't mean you'll win a case or anyone will listen to you though.
>>
>>253596517
>legally it's an investment.
Legally it's not anything. There hasn't been any legislation on the matter.
Legally speaking it's a contract for products and services to be provided in the future.
Legally it's called a prepayment.
Legally you can sue the provider for failure to provide services/products as agreed upon.
Legally you can sue them but that doesn't automatically mean you can get your money back even if you win.
Legally they can declare bankruptcy and let the company go bust.
Legally you're pulling shit out of your ass without any legal expertise.
>>
>>253590061
Not true. The project page links to Yogscast's webpage and the Yogscast people have been doing correspondence with the backers about the game, they definitely have had input into the development, and possibly even taken some money from the kickstarter. Tony Hawk lends his name, shows up to promote, and cashes his checks. I'd be very surprised if Yogscast wasn't pretty wrapped up in all of this mess.

>>253596890
That's right TOS are just a bunch of words that mean nothing. On a completely unrelated note, are you looking forward to High School?
>>
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>Give us money so we can do something
>We're not obligated to actually do the thing you gave money for
aoijva;lw.ekmfovainlejsdhivqoiwksdfnvairleskndmrdi2
>>
>>253597206
If it was a purchase, do you think you'd need TOS to make that legally binding?
>>
>>253597103
You nailed it
>>
>>253597192
>We have a right to complain
And they have a right not go give a shit.
>>
>>253595932
>>253596067
>>253596438


>implying he won't pocket the money because of technical difficulties
>>
>>253597192
Complain all you want. It won't do anything.
>>
>>253596908
he semantics playing fucking moron. Investment does not mean only your narrow view of it. the term investment existed before your COMPANY BONDS AND TRADES version of it.

Any money put towards a product or good is an investment. Not all investments mean you have to have property ownership of said product in total. Just that the good that you invested in is produced and the pay off is your fucking toy or whatever.

You seem to think the only one definition for investment exists and that is why you are fucking wrong and >>253597032 is a s autistic as you are.

The investment in this case was for a future return or benefit. Yeah it is investing.

But then Scotus already ruled on this shit.
>>
>>253597540
You are a fucking moron. You dont need a TOS for contract law. Just the exchange of goods for a good or service is already codified in the case law you dumb shit.

The TOS exists only to reduce Kikestarters liability in this case and say you have to sue the project creator and not kikestarter itself.

Stop being a fucking moron.
>>
>>253597757
That's a stupid definition. If you back a Kickstarter for a game, you get the game. If you invest in a game, you get a cut of the game's profits.
>>
>>253597468
They're actually obligated to provide you the thing you gave money for. If they aren't they're supposed to give you your money back as per the Kickstarter TOS. Which is the only part of semi-legal untested in the court 'contract' that they have agreed to. They can dispute it and you can sue.
And I didn't give a shit so it doesn't bother me one bit. Because who gives a shit anyway you're an unrelated party and have no dog in the fightBut on /v/ you've got to have an agenda against every fucking thing you see that's new because muh counterculture fuck everything the sky is falling
>>
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>>253591203
The fact you're having to debate this with people proves that common sense ain't common and things that seem cut and dry are not.

But hey, if it's truly legal to do this then tomorrow I plan to quit my job and make a living basically starting false money drives for products and promises I never intend to fulfill and just keeping the money.
>>
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>>253592215

>Is the Pizza Party going to have Potato Salad at it?
>No, its just a Pizza Party.
>>
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>>253597757
>Investment does not mean only your narrow view of it
Legally, yes it is. You think judges re-interpret every financial term for each individual cases?
It does not matter what the original definition, English dictionary definition or common definition for a word is, what matters is the legal definition.
>Any money put towards a product or good is an investment. Not all investments mean you have to have property ownership of said product in total. Just that the good that you invested in is produced and the pay off is your fucking toy or whatever.
not legally treated as an investment at all.
You're buying a product.
>You seem to think the only one definition for investment exists
In each legal system, yes there is only one.
You're a fool if you think anyone can drag whatever loose definition into a courtroom and over-rule legally defined terms.
>>
So, let me get this straight.

They could only get a 6 person team with the $550k they got from Kickstarter, but that other team they've partnered with managed to get "a larger team of engineers and programmers" with only $290k? And somehow, the team who have more people and less money are still afloat? What kind of fucking sense does that make?

How fucking transparent can this scam be? It's literally right there in his email, they're either scam artists, or fucking retards who have absolutely no idea how to budget (which I find hard to believe considering how big they are.)
>>
>>253598015
>untested in the court

http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/when-kickstarter-investors-want-their-money-back.html
>In May 2012, Singh filed paperwork in Arizona's Justice Court citing breach of contract. He sued both Quest and his business partner, Juan Cespedes
>Because he never incorporated Hanfree, Quest was personally liable for the refunds. But the money from the backers was gone, spent on engineers and contract manufacturers. The lawsuit forced him into bankruptcy.
>>
>>253597757
Yes words change in meaning with time.
However as present language understands it what you are describing is a purchase and not an investment. fucking moron
>>
>>253598218
rumor is yogscast got half of all money before tax/fees, so every $1 the game got, 55ish cents went to yogscast

literally top jew
>>
>>253598202
Judges change and reinterpret the law all the time.
>>
>>253598218
>implying they paid the team the 550k

if that were true then the lead developer wouldn't had had to give up 25k of his own money and destroy is relationship with his wife
>>
>>253598218
The former. Why else would they go with the lowest bidder if not to maximize their profit.
>>
>>253598363
>50% of everything
>literally sabotaging their own game to get massive money dollars

holy shit this is actually cool of them, they fleeced their own retards
>>
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>>253589460
>Project creators sign a document legally requiring them to fulfil any stated rewards, but it is up to the creators themselves to adhere to this and work out a refund policy if applicable.
>>
>>253597756
>>253597634
>>253597420

Absolutely. I have no problem with people making taking dumb shit to courts and not winning. That's better than not being able to take anything to court at all because of laws pushed by big corporate lobbyists that deny us that freedom.
>>
The real issue here is no concrete reason is given for this. Nothing that makes it seem okay to drop the game, just basically "We don't feel like doing this anymore. Get rekt"
>>
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>Giving your money to the British
NO KIKESTARTATION WITHOUT DELIVERATION
>>
>>253598246
Filing paperwork in a district court doesn't mean that it applies in all states and jurisdictions. Moron. So yeah you can sue in Arizona and win. Good luck to you.
>>
>>253598363
50% of everything? going to need some fact checks on that faggot
>>
>>253598512
>legal requirement
>honor system
wot
>>
They should take away their trophy now and give it to the real winner, post-mortem.

There will NEVER be a new Fitzthislewitz video.
>>
>>253598561
They ran out of money. 6 programmers hired for two years is expensive. Even if you pay them low wages that's still $480,000 for two years.
>>
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>>253589460
>Although we're under no obligation to do anything

What kind of autistic cock sleeve do you need to be to make a statement like this? Especially given the circumstances?
>>
>>253598527
Eh you can take anything to court if you have the resources and time. The court also has the right to throw out frivolous lawsuits with prejudice and stick you in jail for contempt.
Posting this just shows how retardedly brainwashed you are thinking you can't take something to court just for reasons.
>>
>"Although we're under no obligation to do anything, instead we're going to do our best to make this right, and make you really glad you backed the project!"

>We're the nice guys, guys!
>>
>>253598364
They do if there's a reason to.
They can't just do it whenever they want to.
There needs to be clear problems with enforcing the current law such as it being outdated or irrelevant.
They need to evaluate the original purpose of the law in question and whether it would need to be changed.
I can't see any judge managing to find reason to re-interpret a term like "investment" to be even looser. If anything, terms like that generally get more specific interpretations as time goes on.
>>
>>253598339
>Yes words change in meaning with time.
Spoken like a true jew liberal faggot that lost the argument. Gotta move them goalposts around.
>>
>>253598527
This. It's actually a big plus if your nation's court system works under stare decisis and ratio decidendi.
>>
>>253596309
People legitimately do not understand kickstarter is an alternative investment platform and not a charity drive. When you start up something people invest in there are times things go wrong and everyone gets screwed. Bankruptcy for example would protect them from suits, but just basically going "We're cancelling this and keeping the money because we feel like it. Fuck you" is going to have some issues.

Even in charity, you still have to do what you advertised to do with the money.
>>
>>253598246
>breach of contract
Whatdayya know you mean breach of contract exists?
FUCK ME KICKSTARTER IS FINISHED.
No, it's only the parties involved not kickstarter?
It's fucking nothing new
>>
>>253598876
You must have never done law 101. Try looking up the Golden Rule and Mischief Approach in statutory interpretation.
>>
>>253598835
I'm pretty sure some judge will see an issue with guys starting "investment" opprotunities on a website with no intention of fulfilling it. Basically using the websites as a fucking pyramid scheme.
>>
>>253598906
It's not an investment. With an investment you get a return on your money. This is a straight up donation.
>>
>>253598246
>untested in court
In May 2012, Singh filed paperwork in Arizona's Justice Court citing breach of contract. He sued both Quest and his business partner, Juan Cespedes, though he eventually dropped the case against Cespedes.
>meaning it never reached a decision

Yep it's still untested. And you're a fucking moron
>>
>>253589557
Yes, they are. It doesn't have to be good though.
>>
>>253598580
>there are states and jurisdictions that don't have basic contract law
>this matter was brought to a district court because it was a local or state law

Are there really people dumb enough to believe this?
>>
>>253598762
>more than two years to make a shitty mineshaft clone

what, did they only work on it an hour a day?
>>
>>253599087
They promise you things for your investment. No, it is not a donation and this mindset is why kickstarter does not work. Because the people who use it treat it as basically advanced sales where they can do whatever they want with zero repercussions.
>>
>>253599075
>guys starting "investment" opprotunities on a website with no intention of fulfilling it
>with no intention of fulfilling it

Implying you can ever prove that in court.
>>
>>253599087
You do get a return on your money, just not in monetary form. That's what a fucking reward is, you're buying something, be it the game, or a dinner with those fucking hacks.

If there were no rewards you can bet your fucking ass most projects wouldn't raise half the money they do. Why would somebody invest 10k in a project unless there was some really cool reward for it (like meeting two people who they really love).

They paid for that, and they're not getting it.
>>
>>253598762
That's their fault for being too ambitious. They're liable, and considering their asses are millionaires they should be forced to refund everyone out of pocket instead of getting away with some fucking pyramid scheme.
>>
>>253598202
>>Investment does not mean only your narrow view of it
>Legally, yes it is. You think judges re-interpret every financial term for each individual cases?
>It does not matter what the original definition, English dictionary definition or common definition for a word is, what matters is the legal definition.
See how hard this faggot is spinnig his shit now. This is known case law when a feed the children charity failed to deliver a promised gift bag in the 80s.
>>Any money put towards a product or good is an investment. Not all investments mean you have to have property ownership of said product in total. Just that the good that you invested in is produced and the pay off is your fucking toy or whatever.
>not legally treated as an investment at all.
>You're buying a product.
This moron that is arguing its a donation, in his own words just admitted its not a donation. He admits its a product. One you invested money in for its completion.
>>You seem to think the only one definition for investment exists
>In each legal system, yes there is only one.
And here he is just lying out his ass. He really thinks our legal system is black and white.
>You're a fool if you think anyone can drag whatever loose definition into a courtroom and over-rule legally defined terms.
Case law you dumb shit. You are going to have to find this magic book of your legal terms you seem to think would apply equally in each state and locality. Guess what, its different from district to district in some cases. The fact you think there is ONE god all might def shows how fucking stupid and a lying sack of shit you are. The legal definition is defined by case law. Im not sure what the fuck you are basing your assertions on but its not the standing case law.
>>
>>253598815
>>253598835

>reverse rationalization

it's how women work, and apparently, 12 year olds and fat autistic neckbeards that watch shitty LP'ers
>>
>>253599075
If you're talking about Kickstarter then it's breach of contract.
It could be interpreted as people buying a product in advance or them donating but it certainly isn't to do with investments and would not be treated as such.
To be absolutely clear, a single judge would not be able to override the legally recognized definition of an investment for a single case for whatever retarded reason people think a judge would want to do that.

I am not saying that Kickstarter or those who have Kickstarters can't be held accountable, it's just that it simply is not an investment in the eyes of the law.

>>253599087
Just because it's not an investment doesn't by default make it a donation either.
>>
>>253599178
>there are states and jurisdictions that don't have basic contract law
Are there any states and jurisdictions that will implicate 3rd parties that facilitate the deals as part of the contract between two parties when one party fails to deliver?
Oh look, it's fucking not as clear cut as you make it.
>>
>>253599320
Yeah you get a return on money when you buy a burger too. That doesn't mean you own McDonalds dipshit. It just means you bought a burger.
>>
So what I am getting from this thread is there are very little or no laws stopping people from making scams to get free money?

So guys, wanna donate to my "cancer research" fund?
>>
>>253599390
Actually it would be worse if courts see it as 'investment'
Investors have no obligation to expect their money back. Companies fail all the time and you can't sue the company for going bust. You just lose your investment and say hard luck.
>>
>>253599661
I'll donate if you donate to my "penis enlargement research" fund
>>
>>253599661
Are you going to cure the cancer tormenting this board?
>>
>>253599523
>thinks kickstarter is a preorder system
No.

The ENTIRE FUCKING POINT is that the people backing you are your publishers, essentially. They are your investors and they assume the same role as the big corporations you chose not to use. Developers trying to use kickstarter as some pre-alpha preorder system without accountability need to face serious repercussions.
>>
>>253599523
What? If you buy a burger from McDonalds, and they refuse to give you the burger you just fucking paid for, and refuse a refund - that's illegal.
>>
>>253599431
You're making an assumption that Yogscast acted entirely as a 3rd party to this deal. If they are in any way tied up in the mess, it won't matter. That's the kind of thing that nobody will know until someone sues.

Agency law is still pretty cut and dry once you get to the bottom of it.
>>
A bunch of people payed for promises and they got nothing. Kikestarter at work.
>>
>>253599361
>This is known case law when a feed the children charity failed to deliver a promised gift bag in the 80s.
sounds like a breach on contract to me.
How do you think this makes multiple meanings of the word investment enforceable?
>This moron that is arguing its a donation, in his own words just admitted its not a donation.
I never argued that it was a donation.
>And here he is just lying out his ass. He really thinks our legal system is black and white.
It is for the most part.
When there is a legally defined term that is.
This is not some obscure word that has just come into use in the area of law, it's entrenched into how the law is enforced.
The amount of interpretation any judge can make is based on the facts of the case, the state and federal laws and any precedent.
>Case law you dumb shit. You are going to have to find this magic book of your legal terms you seem to think would apply equally in each state and locality. Guess what, its different from district to district in some cases. The fact you think there is ONE god all might def shows how fucking stupid and a lying sack of shit you are. The legal definition is defined by case law. Im not sure what the fuck you are basing your assertions on but its not the standing case law.
Saying case law over and over again isn't telling me anything.
It certainly does not change the legal definition of an investment.
Try again next time.
>>
>>253599783
If moot had made me a janitor, I'd probably have been removed after a day with the type of hellfire I'd rain on /v/.
>>
>>253599523
wow dude, you dont even realize you just reaffirmed his exact point do you.

You also make it clear that its not a donation at all. Thanks.
>>
>>253599786
Kickstarter needs more oversight period.
>>
>>253599741
It's closer to en-masse commissioning of a product.
>>
>>253599661
Well if you're savvy you could probably sue them for fraud if you can find evidence they actually never intended to release the product and just wanted to jew out as many idiots as possible.
>>
>>253599213
>>253599390
>>253599320

Rewards for donating are not the same thing as purchasing items. You're not getting a return on your money. You're not buying anything. Read the contract you signed.
>>
>>253590201
Lewis isn't fat OR ginger.
Neither is Sips or Sjin.
>>
This was back when all you had to do was show up with some concept art and gameplay that was similar to Minecraft. So many projects are falling apart now.
>>
>>253599896
businesses need more government oversight period
>>
>>253600023
So, isn't investment just "donating"? When a millionaire puts his money into a product, isn't that just a donation?
>>
>>253600035
Good. Honestly I hope Kickstarter will make more people cynical about ambitious projects and actually do background research before investing or donating to their causes. Also it should make the publishers accountable for their words.
>>
>>253600035
Let's try to think of some good Kickstarters.
Divinity Original Sin
FTL
uhhh...
>>
>4chan kids mad that goon squad have what it takes to be successful
>>
>>253600023
>Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

>Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.

There, they are liable to give out those rewards in the same way you are liable to give somebody an item they bought.

https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/accountability-on-kickstarter
>>
>>253600234
Shantae?
>>
>>253600301
I hope so but it's not out so it can't be assumed to be good.
>>
>>253593027
>http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/investment

[count noun] An act of devoting time, effort, or energy to a particular undertaking with the expectation of a worthwhile result: the time spent in attending the seminar is an investment in our professional futures

Like investing money (money i earned with my time) in a game in development with the returns being a finished product.

I love the autistic teenager fucks that seem to think its only investment if its in the stocks and bonds sense. Such shallow and tiny minds they have.
>>
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>Be gamedev
>Friend links me this back when it was getting kickstarted
>Tell him the game is generic, too big and all they did was plaster yogscast on to it
>He tells me i'm wrong
>Don't want to argue
>Way later
>This article
This is just fucking golden
>>
>>253600240
Well they learned from the best, considering SA is a scam as well.
>>
>>253600171
No. An investment you own a portion of the product or company. You're buying a share of it.
>>
>>253593063
>>the outlay of money usually for income or profit; capital outlay

Profit, as in getting a finished product? Profit has a lot of meanings dude.

The profit of the investment does not have to be monetary it can be the finished good or service.
>>
>>253600393
>it's only investment if stocks and major corporations are involved
No
>>
>>253600343
Did it not just come out for PC or was that an older game of hers?
>>
>>253596575
>>253596915
He even has a cunty looking hair cut now.
>>
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>>253600361
>calls others teenagers
>thinks oxford dicitionary's defintion is the same as the legal definition
>uses one of the alternate definitions from the site
we all know this is bait by now, but c'mon.
>>
Why would anyone give money to a couple of e-celebs that have no clue/experience in the industry. Why? I don't get it.

People are blatantly stupid and then they cry? Cry because you're stupid and didn't see it coming, don't cry about the lost money.
>>
>>253600606
No, he seems pretty correct. Try not to just scream bait and use reaction images when you can't rebut things.
>>
>>253600393
>you own a portion of the product or company

You are one autistic fucker that is still clinging to shit bullshit logic.

Funny how the idea of investment and investiture fucking predates stocks and bonds.

You can invest time in a project for an expected return you know. In this case you invest your money in the development of a good and the profit is that you will get a good or reward as a result.

Stop being a fucking idiot.
>>
>>253589460
I hope this makes you morons realize how retarded the SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! mentality is when it comes to game development, especially using crowdfunding sites.
If you want to support a studio financially, you INVEST so you get something other than a shitty game back, you don't donate 10K so you can go have lunch with indie game devs (eww, btw)
>>
>>253593791
it's not an image
>>
>>253599835
No the 3rd party here is Kickstarter. They're acting as the agents. the Agreement in place is between the backers and yoggscast.
Not seeing this just proves the moronic nature of you.
>>
>>253600272
Read it again. There is no legal enforcement of those rules. Kickstarter won't do anything and neither will anyone else. Words in terms of service are not laws.
>>
>>253599320
That's not the right way to go at it at all though. I understand people saying the reward should be a share of the profit and not a copy of the game. But risk is risk. Sometimes shit fails.

>>253599786
What "accountability"? You give money to a project, it can fail, whether you're a kickstarter victim, or a big invester.
However if you mean kickstarter users should have more of a right to see what's happening and survey the process, like shareowners, then yes, fuck yes.

Kickstarter should be handled like an investment funds. Where either KS itself would control the projects advancements, or the contributors could "pool together" and designate someone to investigate the project on their behalf.
>>
>Winterkewl
>Nerd Kingdom
What the fuck?
>>
>>253600234
Broken Age. People like to shit on it because of epic may mays and money problems but the reality is that the game is just fine and backers don't have to pay any more then they already did to get the full game.
>>
>>253598818
>Posting this just shows how retardedly brainwashed you are thinking you can't take something to court just for reasons.

It really isn't that easy anymore.
>>
>>253600490
>>253600736
You're autistic retards if you think stocks are the only form of investment. You're also retarded if you think you don't earn money back from investment because you do.
>>
>>253600775
So, again, it's totally legal for me to make a project in the big business world then keep all the money and run and nothing bad can happen?

Holy fuck, I'm gonna be rich.
>>
>>253600606
>moron dosent see that he was responding to the guy that linked to the defenition trying to prove everyone that was claiming it was an investment wrong

>proceeds to show how the definition the guy trying to prove everyone that investment was only if you get stocks was wrong.

You are a fucking retard.
>>
>>253600490
It's only investment if you reasonably stand to gain a return.
>>
>>253600737
>you don't donate 10K so you can go have lunch with indie game devs (eww, btw)

Did they actually promise that? I know other projects have but how conceited do you have to think your time is worth 10k
>>
>>253599910
Whether it's one person or 10 million the same law still applies. If it looks like duck, swims like a duck and talks like a duck. It's a commonly used test for reasoning.
>>
>>253600881
That isn't the sole meaning of investment.
>>
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>>253600519
That's the dsi/ios game.
The Kickstarter game has smooth high res graphics and is completely new.
>>
>>253600737
Not every game company is publically traded, and most that are are awful.
>>
>Im a lawyer and I 100% know what I'm talking about : the thread.
>>
>>253600881
Wow the autism has gone incoherently mad.
>>
>>253589557
If you sell kickstarter rewards, you have to deliver or give refunds.

Problem is that a bankrupt LLC can't give refunds, unless of course they acted irresponsibly, in which they might still be liable.
Don't know about American corporate law, but if you act carelessly with your creditor's money, you're still liable even if your company is a LLC
>>
>>253600023
>rewards for donating are not the same thing as purchasing items
Yeah just because you change the names a little doesn't make it not what it is.
>>
>>253600937
But I did stand to gain a return? When did return mean "money"?
>>
>>253600843
>faq specifically mentions suing the project creators for not fulfilling the project.

Hmm.
>>
>>253600764
Yogscast signed an agreed contract, Kickstarter have flat out said that they are accountable for these rewards if the project is funded.

Any one of the backers could sue Yogscast, because it's right there in writing that they paid for something that they are not going to get. This is why ToS and contracts exist, so people can't get scammed like this. Binding contracts like this, no matter how trivial, are taken very seriously in court.
>>
>>253589597
How are they wrong? This is a real question, because the way I see it, kickstarter stuff has no promise of anything actually delivered.

Yogscast didn't develop the game (and didn't take the money, I think? correct me if I'm wrong. The devs didn't deliver and took the money. Just because the game carries a "brand name" in it's title, doesn't make the company (Yogscast) responsible for the devs' actions.

It's a shit situations to be in for sure, but any obligation? No. They are doing damage control and it will net them some good PR once this thing cools down.
>>
>>253600937
Return does not mean just money you spastic retard.

You get a game, or additional rewards at the end. That is a return on the investment.
>>
>>253600903
>keep
The money is lost. It was wasted by bad management.

Yes it's legal to get money for a project, squander it all, and close the company. No your investors won't sue for that, unless they can prove you embezzled.
>>
>>253601063
>thinking public markets are the only way people invest in businesses
>being this retarded
>>
Well at least they gave something and didn't go full fuck you we wasted your money. Though for the ones who paid anything but the basic it is still pretty bad
>>
>>253601070
I'm no lawyer but I studied business law in uni.
They were pretty specific when it came to contract law.
I don't know whether Kickstarter would be considered as donations or purchasing a product but investments are definitely for profit.
Otherwise you could literally consider every product you buy for personal use an investment.
Then it just loses meaning.
>>
>>253601274
Is yogscast filing for bankruptcy?
>>
>>253600361
>Like investing money in a game in development with the returns being a finished product
Yeah and this would make all the people who preorder for games now investors as well.
Congratulations on being a moron.
>>
>>253601360
>Yfw YogDiscovery
>Yfw the playthrough for Space Engineers
>>
>>253601085
Its the same here.

If someone sued them they would have to show that they had acted in good faith and things just went south.

But if they are found to have you know, bought a fancy car or house or some shit with the money. Yeah they are on the hook.
>>
>>253601305
I didn't say that.
>>
>>253601360
Winterkewl is.
>>
Got to respect a good scam
>>
>>253590201
i'm pretty sure yogscast didn't have anything to do with the actual development of the game, did they? it was based on their series, but outside of the voices i didn't think they had much to do with it.

bring back yogpod
>>
>>253600843
Actually it is really that easy. Proving your case however isn't
You can file papers to sue anyone anywhere. Any legal person can be sued including Companies.
>>
>>253601331
KS will push for it to be recognized as a donation, yeah.
>>
>>253601274
Pretty sure it's a criminal offense to continue spending money and not file for bankrupcy when you know you can never pay back your creditors.
>>
>>253600751
The facts are that Kickstarter is entirely separate from Yogventures. I never said anything about Kickstarter.

I was referring to Yogscast and Winterkewl. Winterkewl likely has nothing in terms of assets and they are also likely structured somewhat like an actual company.

Yogscast is trying to distance themselves from the disaster and claim that they were just the name and it was a licensing deal. They are claiming that they are also a 3rd party in the deal.

I don't give a fuck about Kickstarter, I'm just concerned about Yogscast.

>>253601268
>>253601134
Return is profit. You go to McDonalds and you don't get a return when the lady hand you your Big Mac. Complete fucking morons.
>>
>>253601619
>continue spending money and not file for bankrupcy
Winterkewl is going bankrupt innit?
>>
>>253601582
They can't. Kickstarter clearly says any backer reward is a legally binding contract between backer and project owner.
Best advice a lawyer can give you: read the fucking contracts you sign.
>>
>>253601364
A preoder is not an investment in the game development retard.

And its fully refundable and not held by the company making the game. its held by a third party that is promising fulfillment.

Stop being an idiot. You are not even on the same planet as logic and reason anymore.

IN before early access, thats not the same thing as kickstarter either. It is an even shadier process but at least the TOS says that it might never be done and you are not promised a finished game.
>>
>>253600903
>So It's totally legal to make a project in a big business world then keep all the money and run and nothing bad can happen.
Except it isn't your money it's the companies. You're stealing from the company which is owned by the investors.
tl;dr you're stealing and the cops will get you.
>>
>>253591154

I'm pretty sure you'd have to sign a contract by hand to count as a real investor legally speaking.
>>
>>253601259
Yes they fucking do, Kickstarter make you tick a box before you create a project, stating that your backers can sue you if you don't follow through with your rewards.

It's right fucking there in writing.
>>
>>253601619
Technically i'ts a civil wrong but if they were trading while insolvent and did it intentionally and recklessly, then the directors can be imprisoned.
>>
>>253601674
>return when the lady hand you your Big Mac.
Yeah you do, you get food, that ends your hunger.

its a profit.

Profit does not only mean MONEY.
>>
>>253601070
I'm actually a lawyer who looks over contracts every day and I 100% know what I'm talking about. The problem is there are a lot of pseudoexperts here arguing about terms they're pulling off websites in 2 seconds and relying on them like they're legally tested definitions.
>>
>>253589615
Remember that one woman who made a kickstarter for a board game got funded, then stopped because, The fucking sun compelled her to stop.
>>
>>253601993

Oh god that was golden.
>>
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>>253592569
how naive
>>
even if people argue that kickstarter is an investment, it isnt the kind of economical, is more of a philosophical one, if you buy a video game, it isnt an investment to make more money, is an investment in having a good time. So in practical manner it isnt an investment, as you cant make it solid enough to work on a court.
>>
>>253601582
perhaps.
I think it's important to note that Kickstarter and the person/s with the Kickstarter page are two different parties.
It could be that Kickstarter has an obligation to backers or it could be that the person/s with the Kickstarter are the ones who are obligated.
>>253601763
It would need to be ascertained whether the ToS is legally binding to the Kickstarting group and whether it is considered part of the contract that backers enter into when they gave them their money.
>>
>>253600903
Is it 2014 and people are still complaining about the S.A. status?
It's like I'm back in the 19th century again!
>b...but people will make a company, fail, close it, and open another one the next day since the owners of a S.A. are not legally responsible!
And yet 150 years later it's now pretty obvious limited responsibility is the best way to do business.
>>
>>253601791
so it's okay to steal when your investors are individuals and not a company?
>>
I love kickstarter.

>project that would never EVER get made otherwise appears
>people open their wallets out of sheer nostalgia/fanboyism/principle ("TIME 2 put my money where my mouth is, LOL!)
>game finally comes out and is pretty good
>I come along and pirate it, reaping every reward for no effort

So it's just like regular games only with fantasy projects that shouldn't exist. Whenever some dipshit spends $100 for a game that's worth $20, he gets a t-shirt and buys my copy too.
>>
>>253602150
I've no idea what you are trying to say here.
>>
>>253602134
Wouldn't they have had agreed to a similar TOS before they donated their money, or when they registered to kickstarter?
>>
>>253602218
these games aren't even worth pirating
>>
>>253602123
It's more of a reverse investment. You pay more than what you receive will ever be worth in hopes that you'll get something you enjoy, and meanwhile your "investment" directly increases the value of the company for the people who actually have a stake in it.
>>
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>>253596465

Might have to, but I'll buy the smallest plot of land and build a shitty shack on it in some back water country and buy my own mansion with the rest of the money.

Shit, I might have to actually do that.
>>
>>253602274
yes but what I am saying is that it could be seen that the TOS is separate to the contract between a backer and the project founder.
If I was a dirty project founder who's trying to get away with people's money, I'd probably argue that the TOS is a contract between Kickstarter and its users, not between me and my backers.
>>
>>253602228
When a S.A goes bankrupt, the people who had stakes in it might get fucked, and no the original owners won't have to mortgage their house to pay for all the debts the company has.

People used to be revolted by the idea of limited accountability, and yet it has proven time and time again it's better for business.
>>
>>253601674
Then you go sue Yoggscast and not direct your energy at Kickstarter.
Put it this way. Kickstarter is the agent that helped you purchase the apartment from the developer in exchange for a portion of the sale price.
Developer fails to complete the project.
Who do you sue?
The agent or the Developer?
>>
>mfw I backed Wasteland 2
>mfw I've received regular progress newsletters and my early beta key
>mfw I backed the first and only right horse
I feel bad for those who backed No.9, but not those who backed this crap or >3.3 millions
>>
>>253602495
And for people like yogscast, who benefitted heavily from it!
>>