Then and Now: differences in dealing with military films

>>87471425
what films are you referring to you turbo pleb

>>87471437
>literally any Iraq film in post 9-11 American cinema
What makes me a pleb?

>>87471425
first priority these days is the movie has to appeal to the lowest common denominator?

>>87471552
So, are you saying the lowest common denominator is brainwashed and war obsessed?

>>87471454
>post 9-11 American cinema
that's your answer right there

>>87471685
I guess I am mostly baffled at the lack of self-awareness that we have on war films. I'm a mid to late millennial, so I guess my attitude to Iraq is far more negative than younger kids.

>>87471705
>mid to late millennial
theres your problem, you're a pussy who doesn't want to CRUSH his enemies under his foot

>>87472027
You realize that puts me to late 20s to early 30s, right?

>>87471425
Apocalypse Now is the most jingo movie ever made. It makes war look like a fantasy adventure.

>>87472061
>literally the exact opposite of the point with Apacalypse Now.

Reminder that apocalypse now is not a war film. It is a film set during a war.

It is an adaption of Heart of Darkness and so is at its core a critique of Western imperialism. The war is peripheral to the story.

>>87472085
What was the point if not to create a marvelous spectacle to thrill audiences and win fame and fortune?

>>87472094
Why would a critique on imperialism not be an anti-war film?

>>87471425
>there are no post 2001 films with a critic view of american military

you guys are fucking retarded. There are thousands. But people like to enjoy movies like The lone Survivor more than In the Valley of Elah, Redacted, Green Zone or the other half a million

>>87472153
That wasn't the point.

>>87472141
then why is it so boring?

>>87472142

The problem is it contains bullshit semi fantasy elements towards the end, which are also completely fictional.

Its only a war movie in the same way that inglorious bastards is a war movie.

>>87472187
That seems like a really shirty way of criticizing....

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>>87472061
Did you watch it?

>>87472203
*shitty

>>87471425
Apocalypse Now was a needed propaganda piece for the peace/hippie movement, the movie is comically absurd in its presentation of the vietnam war, but people at the time largerly ate it up as an "accurate" description of what is happening there.

I mean, the sadistic officer that lands in the middle of a battle to go surfing? Sure, that's how military personal is.

>>87472249
>it is peace propaganda
Do you fucking hear yourself? How old are you?

>>87472274

Why is there anything wrong with this statement? Anti war films plainly and completely admittedly exist, they are therefore propaganda for the cause of not war/peace

>>87472176
what was then?

>>87472274
Nice reading comprehension

29

>>87472329
>anything anti-war, is propaganda.

>>87472359
in a wide sense, anything made to share a point of view and promote your ageda is propaganda. And liberal hollywood movies against Bush's administration clearly was propaganda, for example

>>87472383
Plesse fuck off back to /pol/ you retarded faggot.

>>87472249
People who surf like that do exist. It's a show of control and military victory and is something that would seem good for morale and as a news story.

>>87472383
>in a wide sense, anything made to share a point of view and promote your ageda is propaganda.
Literally not what propaganda is.

>>87472383
>and liberal hollywood movies against Bush's administration clearly was propaganda, for example
Is this the brainwashing I am dealing with here? Is this how fucked in the head we got?

>>87472359
>>87472436


Anything that promotes a message, particularly of a political nature, is by definition propaganda.

You've just been nurtured on the belief that propaganda is some sort of pejorative term, because you've probably heard it in negative contexts.

>>87472463
>aything that promotes a message, particularly of a political nature, is by definition propaganda.
No, it isn't...

>>87472408
>>87472436
>>87472459

ITT triggered commies who think 'propaganda' only means things evil right wingers did to poor lefties or minorities because their marxist teachers told them so.

>>87472408
yes, everyone who doesn't hold the liberal hollywood worldview is from /pol/

>>87472417
yes, military personal always goes surfing in the middle of battle, of course that exists.


Fuck this board

>>87472473

yes it is

>then
>watching kino made about the vietnam war and it's horror like Apocalypse Now, Platoon, Deer Hunter, FMJ
>now
>movies about how boring war is, like Jarhead, Generation Kill, and Hurt Locker

Movies just got shittier, don't know what to tell you. It's not the material that's bad, it's just that people don't want to see good movies anymore.

>>87472503
>being anti-war is a "liberal hollywood worldlview"
Do you hear yourself?

>>87472513
It's not, you fucking /pol/ retard. Fuck off with your buzzwords.

>>87472521

Why are you so triggered by the assertion that an 'anti war' message is 'propaganda'?

Propaganda as a term doesn't carry the assertion that what it claims is wrong or false or somehow bad, its simply a term for a thing through which a message is pushed.

Arabs need to to be culled.
American military are heroes doing the world good.

>>87472492
>everyone who disagrees with my cartoonish worldview is a "commie".

>>87472556
So:
>anything I say, or don't like is propaganda.

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>>87472567

>everyone who disagrees with my cartoonish worldview is from /pol/

>>87472518
well, to be fair, movies like jarhead deal with the fact that people got their vision of war from older movies. Then, they expect that and got hit by the reality

>>87472521
kinda yes, being a pacifist beta is the (ingrained) liberal hollywood worldview, you are just too uneducated to know that this hasn't been the modus operandi for males like you in the west before the 60's, and that it hasn't happened to be it now all on its own.

And guess what, I dont even go on pol

>>87472580
That's literally what you are doing.

>>87471425
Modern war films are LITERALLY recruitment propaganda. Not in a figurative way. No, in a LITERAL way. They are approved and supplied by the US AF in order to boost recruitment numbers.

Just look at the most recent film about that bitch and the dog. Its 100% to get women to enlist.

>>87472579

I already said its not an inherently negative term. I freely admit that some things which I like are propaganda for a belief that I also hold.

>>87472579
what?

Anyways, sharing your opinion is not propaganda. Investing 100 million dolars in a movie to share that opinion IS propaganda. It doesn't matter if it's good or bad.

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>modern war films are documentary depictions of heroic exploits, also covering their loyal families back at home
>tend to get both critical and commercial success
wew laddy

>>87472599
>being a pacifist
>is being a beta
You're brainwashed, mate.

>>87472249
>peace propaganda
Easy on them "red" pills.

>>87472611

By claiming that people making movies with a deliberate anti war message is 'propaganda'?

Lets take the other side. Would you call a film with a deliberate pro war message 'propaganda'? If yes, what's the difference? Can you articulate it to me without screaming 'BAG2POL:D:D:D'

>>87472631
>modern war films are documentary depictions of heroic exploits, also covering their loyal families back at home
>tend to get both critical and commercial success
You live in a fantasy world.

>>87472643
Please adequately and concretely explain to me what makes something propaganda outside your "feelings"...

>>87472643

Not him, but:

You dont make films as propaganda for war. You make propaganda films to show how great fighting for your country is, by glorifying the act of violence and even conquest.

Anti-war films are non-ideological (mostly), since peace isnt a politial fucking view. Its a state of peace.

>>87471425
American IQ is falling. American unity is now so fragile that it can't withstand criticism. Super powers like China have matched and will likely surpass American economic might.
The US will give up on its ideals to try and stay relevant. It's the slow death of freedom.

>>87472629
>having a budget makes your movie propaganda.

>>87472632
lol but it is. And the best thing, you can get it taught via a great movie!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBxgrr0wL8M

>>87472679
>being a pacifist is beta, according to my YouTube video.
Kill yourself.

>>87472596
Agreed. It's also the reason why war movies are so shit nowadays.

>>87472614
>jarhead, valley of Elah, Redacted, Green Zone, Brothers, The messenger, Lions for lambs, taxi to the dark side, stop-loss, syriana or body of lies would make me want to join the army

It's not their fault if people enjoy more a good action movie than the 99# drama about how bad white people is

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>>87472665

>Oxford Dictionary

"Information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view."

>Cambridge dictionary

"information, ideas, opinions, or images, often only giving one part of an argument, that are broadcast, published, or in some other way spread with the intention of influencing people's opinions"

>Merrimam-Webster dictionary

: the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person

: ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also : a public action having such an effect

>>87472707
>muh white people wahhh wah wah

>>87472716
>>87472664

intended for (You)

>>87472716
Woah, it's almost like you are intentionally vague to apply "propaganda" to anything you dislike. Really fires the neurons.

>>87472675
It literally does, you faggot

>>87472665
>Anti-war films are non-ideological (mostly)
hahahahahahahahaha

>>87472632
>>87472665

this is how brainwashed they are.

"my views instilled on me from childhood on are just the normal thing to think, get back to pol you weirdo with this weirdo things you say about propaganda in my ideology-free masterpieces"

W T F

>>87472750

Its almost like you think you know better than 3 of the world's most reputable dictionaries

>>87472773
It's almost like the definition itself allows for a degree of vagueness for case by case scenarios.

>>87472781

Its almost like you are arbitrarily excluding things from falling within the broad definition of propaganda because they happen to support your own worldview.

>>87472770
>being a pacifist is to be brainwashed
Or maybe I'm not a cucked faggot who blindly gives trillions of dollars into foreign wars?

>>87472797
If this irony is lost on you...

>>87472758
>It literally does, you faggot
Then you are a goof.

>>87472758
>it's ideological to be anti-war and say "hey, don't needlessly kill people"
>I am this cucked by American education.

>>87472826

I'm not saying anti war films are propaganda because i happen to disagree with that worldview. I'm generally not in favour of war.

Its still propaganda. The people who make these films aren't ideologically free, pure objective people making an untained objective representation of war. They make them to have certain themes and messages.

>>87472876
So:
>anything I don't like/anything that has a political message, is propaganda

>>87472876
Do you not seem to understand that a film having a subjective bias, doesn't just magically make it propaganda? Jesus Christ, are you this retarded?

They've been influencing Hollywood since the late 20s but only started to really rev up the machine after Vietnam to be efficient.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2004/09/operation-hollywood/

>>87472916

Why is it not propaganda?

Why don't we make this easier and you give me your own definition of 'propaganda', if you think the dictionary definition is not satisfactory

>>87472862
I still have to watch a post 2000 anti war movie by a major holywood studio that goes against war itself, and not against the Bush administration, with wise and old characters that know about war and have fought in legit ones and find out this one in particular is bad, for example. Or against the economic model that forces the USA to fight over petrol, or the corruption behind weapons deals.

Please, show me a movie about how bad war is. Show me a post 2000 hollywood's Johnny got his gun

Please, show me.

>>87472893

>anything that has a political message, is propaganda

ftfy and yes.

Doesn't matter if I like it or not

>>87472862
>I am this cucked by American education.
Oh, and I'm european

>>87472893
you don't get it.

>anything I like or don't like and has a political message, is propaganda

>>87471425
That was a different time man, back when people were actually aware of the shit their government does and had the balls to talk about it (1971, iran-contra affair, watergate, etc.).

>>87472770
Ironic, considering you clearly ate up those Marine corps commercials at your local cinema.

Im not even American m8. I live in a non-cucked European nation, which literally doesnt give a fuck about any other nation on the world. In fact, we have conscription here. We are all "patriots" by default. That however doesnt mean that I want to be sent to some 3rd world shithole to kill a bunch of sand people. Wanting peace doesnt mean you cant love your country.

But hey, what do I know? Im an educated European who likes to shitpost on an anonymous kino forum.

Vietnam had 50,000 dead soldiers to Iraq and Afghanistan's combined, what, 8000? Night and day. Half the country is still OK with us staying in Iraq/Afghanistan as long as it takes. That clearly wasn't the case when Vietnam was happening.

>>87473031
>Oh, and I'm european
Poland is not European.

>>87473031
Because juat because something has a political message, it doesn't make it propaganda. Do you not understand that?

>>87473005
Again, just because something has a political message....doesn't make it propaganda.

>>87472716
>Propaganda = something i disagree with

Say no more senpai. I gotchu >>>/pol/

>>87473053
This is interesting because Iraq and Afghanistan have been hilariously expensive in these 16 years to American public. They accrued over a trillion in debt to USA or something.

>>87473053
>Half the country is still OK with us staying in Iraq/Afghanistan as long as it takes
No...they aren't. Are you autistic?

>>87472994
Did you miss the point of OP's post?

>>87473053

>8000 people
>out of a population of over 300 million
>4 million more people reaching military service age every year
>everyone who went there went there voluntarily and knew the risk of death was present.

Why do people pretend like the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were unwinnable, or pretend to give a fuck about 'our poor soldiers'.?

>>87473063
what about Spain?
>>87473074
An opinion by somebody on the streets, or a anonymous vietnamese trading card forum? No. A hollywood production with hundreds of people involved, a budget, a marketing strategy and a distribution plan? Of course. It is propaganda. Deal with it.

>>87473107

Like we gave a shit for half of them. Bush won reelection on 9/11 and the Iraq War. People act like these wars have always been viewed as a mistake but public sentiment didn't start to turn until the waning years of Bush's second term and even now our political leaders aren't willing to face the potential fallout of Afghanistan collapsing to Taliban rule. We already spend more on our military than every other country combined, what's the point if we're not going to use it right? Better than giving people health care apparently.

>>87473093
>>87473095

What makes it propaganda then?

>>87472978
I'm saying that thw definition obviously offers a degree of open-endness for case for case scenarios. It isn't just "things I don't like". Because that would make you literally autistic.

>>87473138
Op is just as wrong as the other guy. There are anti war movies now. But they are all politically biased. That's a fact, and if I'm wrong, I would love to be corrected.

>>87473168
>Of course. It is propaganda. Deal with it.
Except again, it's not. Why does this spin you out so much?

>>87473195
>There are anti war movies now.
Name 3 mainstream ones.

>>87473189

>open-endness for case for case scenarios

Articulate for me, something that would fall within the definition.

Your answer is a cop out that allows you to pick and choose what you describe as propaganda and what you don't probably dependant on whether or not you agree with its message.

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>>87472249
>peace propaganda
You're right! Who would chill for peace and prosperity? Could you imagine the horror?

>>87473161

They were unwinnable at the level of cost we were willing to provide in manpower and financially.

>or pretend to give a fuck about 'our poor soldiers'.?

Cause they literally are poor and homeless/suicidal at much higher rates than normal folks. You think military recruiters hang out in rich neighborhoods?

>>87473116

Tell that to the people who bitched at Obama for leaving Iraq or voted for Trump to increase the number of troops in Afghanistan. There's clearly little public interest in doing anything dramatic with either country. As long as ISIS is being killed and the Taliban don't rule why not keep a few thousand troops over there am I right? Can't wait to have this conversation again during the next election.

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>invade a foreign country
>kill innocents and infect them with chemicals
>make film about how it made your soldiers sad

>>87473232
>Articulate for me, something that would fall within the definition.
Birth of a Nation.

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>>87473240

>He thinks propaganda inherently contains a malicious intent

>>87473232
>Your answer is a cop out that allows you to pick and choose what you describe as propaganda and what you don't probably dependant on whether or not you agree with its message.
I hope the irony makes you kill yourself.

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daily reminder that the gulf of tonkin was literally fabricated

>>87473258

And how does this differ from Apocalypse Now in such a way as to make it propaganda?

Are you saying its message has to be false?

>>87473213
so, having a different opinion that yours is a requirement to be propaganda?
>>87472707
>>87473231

>>87473295
>how does Apocalypse Now differ from Birth of a Nation?
You are baiting me...right?

white boy war propaganda movies have always been propaganda movies

don't get me started on miss saigon

the real miss saigon would probably castrate american GIs for killing her parents and family

>>87473286

There is no irony because nowhere in this thread have I said 'propaganda means things I don't like.' I said it doesn;t matter if I like them or not.

I don't hope you kill yourself but I do hope you oneday improve upon your reading comprehension skills. :)

>>87473050
guess what, I'm Austrian too you fucking faggot

>>87471425
9/11

>>87473310
let me guess, you agree with one but not with the other

>>87473310

No, I'm asking you which differences make Birth of a Nation propaganda and Apocalypse Now not propaganda.

Can you articulate that to me? Or are you just going to rely on the old 'self evident' non-argument?

>>87473328
>he thinks being anti-war is "propagandist"
Yes, one is obviously different.

>>87473240
>completely misses the point

I spell it out for you and the other bimbos here: It was both called the hippie-movement, the peace-movement as in retrospect the 68-movement

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>>87473339

Birth of a Nation was anti-war, specifically it was critical of the American civil war for ever having happened.

So therefore I suppose it was not propaganda

Jarhead wasn't about that at all, OP. I understand what you're saying but like with everything, there are exceptions.

>>87473389
>Birth of a Nation was anti-war
Lol please..stop.

>>87472176
Actually this post refuted the point pretty well. I could make an image with fucking Green Berets on the left and one of many anti-war films on the right and ask "What happened ???"

>>87473335
>what makes an anti-black, KKK propaganda film different than a cerebral anti-war Vietnam film based on Heart of Darkness?

>>87473432
Wut?

>>87473435

I know, you disagree with the former and agree with the latter.

>>87473435
>anti-black, KKK propaganda

back to tumblr you go

>>87473452
Most chemically balanced people would.

>>87473460
Birth of a Nation is literally made by the KKK, are you retarded?

>>87473465

And whether they do or not has no bearing upon whether something is or is not propaganda

You're hopelessly stuck in the false assumption that something being propaganda means that it is bad.

>>87473489
Yes, propaganda has a negative connotation. It's you /pol/fags that think otherwise.

>>87473484
>literally made by the KKK

back to tumblr with you

>>87472040
yes, son, I realize that. what's your point?

>>87473499

By negative connotations do you mean that the truth of the claims in a propaganda piece are doubtful, or that the message it puts forward is something unsavoury?

>>87473507
Buddy that is literally true...are you autistic?

>>87473555
How about both?

>>87473558
>that is literally true

literally back to tumblr

>>87473587

So you admit that whether or not something is propaganda depends in part upon whether or not you agree with the message?

>>87473590
Have you never looked it up?

>>87473598
Or maybe you're just autistic and think you can apply the term "propaganda" to anything you decide?

>>87473601
>never looked it up

tumblr time for you

>>87473625
you are the one deciding what is propaganda based in your political opinion. We say EVERYTHING that shares a political opinion in a product is propaganda, no matter what opinion it sides

>>87471425
>What in the living fuck happened?
smarter propaganda, they learned from the mistakes they made during the Vietnam war

>>87473050
>>87473317
God, Austrians are so fucking dumb. Glad I moved out of that dumb hillbilly country.

>>87473685
>We say EVERYTHING that shares a political opinion in a product is propaganda, no matter what opinion it sides
Which is autistic as shit.

>>87473785
oh, yes, being a faggot that states anything he doesn't agree with is propaganda is much better

>>87473801
The fact that you literally don't see the irony here is beyond palpable.

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>>87473778
>austria
>bad
S H I G G Y
D
I
G
G
Y

>>87473778
>Glad I moved out of that dumb hillbilly country.
Did you move back to Turkey?

>>87473317
And?

>>87471425
movies used to cost a lot less and thus the directors were given more creative freedom. in an age where a war movie costs 50-100 million dollars or more, studios only want to rely on proven formulas

>>87472518

Hurt Locker isn't about how boring war is, if anything it's about how senseless and violent it is. The reason Jenner keeps going back is because he can't adjust to normal civilian family life that he think is boring after working in the bomb disposal unit and that's why he reenlists for another tour, he's in love with the danger of the warzone and the Adrenalin rush.

>>87473778
In what progressive heaven do you reside in now?

Post 9/11 militarism is required to show American soldiers, regardless of the conflict, as pure, perfect, 10/10 saviors of humanity.

Gotta get those 18 year old zog zombies.

>>87475222
*tips fedora*

>>87475222
>required
Literally where?

>>87471425
Well you see what happened was that the American military decided that you will only get their help with your movie if you portray the military in a positive light.

>>87475222
This is essentially the tl;dr of OP's question.

>>87475262
*rubs hands*

>>87472061
Did you even watch the movie?

>>87475573

OP got BTFO early on already, here >>87472153

how do you get the idea that promoting pacifist betaness is anything good? Check the numbers for "are you willing to fight for your country" before and after the 60s, if anything ZOG as you call it would want anyone to be a passive beta so they wont face any resistance in the dismanteling of western nations (as is happening right now)

>>87476179
Jeez, what is fucking wrong with you Cletus?

>>87476179
>the knucle dragging ooga booga "pacifism is for betas" meme.

>>87476179
>WESTERN NATIONS ARE FALLING APART REEEEE!!!

>>87476260
>>87476281

>knuckle dragging
>cletus

you know where you need to go back to

>>87476301
No, I am sure everything will turn out fine for France, Germany, Sweden, the UK, Netherlands, Belgium and of course the US. Remember, we live in lala-Land where demographics dont matter and every clear evidence against multiculturalism working out is rightwing propaganda

>>87476370
No, obviously it's the end of the world, multiculturalism is to blame and all of white society is being destroyed by Jews or whatever your boogeyman of the week is, you dumb faggot.

>>87472027
Yea I like to CRUSH Arabs under my foot like an ALPHA

CRUSHing gash like I CRUSH mudslimes. These millennial cucks wouldn't understand how it feels to want to CRUSH someone.

God you're such a faggot

>>87476370
>No, I am sure everything will turn out fine for France, Germany, Sweden, the UK, Netherlands, Belgium and of course the US
Yeah, probably.

>>87476370
>multiculturalism doesn't work in /pol/ baby land
>US is most successful country on the planet and much of the successful first world, the birthplace of modern democracy and capitalism, is multicultural.
>but it doesn't work because sometimes blacks get mad I call them niggers.

>>87473310
ANSWER THE QUESTION YOU FUCKING COWARD

>>87476322
Why don't you tell me, I'm clearly slower than you.

>>87476510
How is being "anti-Imperialistic/anti-war", propaganda?

>>87473484
>D.W Griffith was in the KKK

this is the dumbest thing I've read on /tv/ this week

>>87476489
you do know the US is only at that state of affairs because of whites, right? Whites founding the country, whites running the country, whites building the infrastructure, whites building fucking everything.
The niggers-into-society-programs aka affirmative action are only a few decades old, the meme of "US is multicultural and only successful because of that" has started even more recently.
So not only are you brainwashed liberal faggot (who will gladly never reproduce) but you are also uneducated as shit, GET BACK TO RED DIT ALREADY

>>87476533
>entire film is literally a propaganda film for the Klan.

>>87476593
>I know nothing about D.W Griffith, his filmography or the production nor aftermath of birth of a nation

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>>87476573
Wew, lad. You sound pretty mad. You seem to either parody a /pol/tard, or spend too much time there.

>>87476635
Is your argument seriously that Birth of a Nation isn't a racist Klan propaganda film?

Am I being baited? It's literally shown in schools because of how blatant the fucking film is.

>>87476635
>this "secret untold story" that nobody jas heard of outside of apologists, somehow changes the intent of the movie and the message it has.

>>87476573
>he thinks "white" is a thing
I garuntee none of your diseased-ridden, mutt/hillbilly genes are even remotely related to Europeans that built societies.

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>>87476687
>le 1 in a million intelligent black man is proof that you are wrong and multiculturalism is a great idea

At least post Neil deGrasse

>>87476780
I am Austrian as were my parents and greatparents and those before you fucking faggot

>>87476815
>over half of all whites in the US are dumber than anon's pic related.
Is that the joke?

>>87476840
>I'm Austrian
No wonder you are a racist schizoid then.

>>87471425
>What in the living fuck happened?
9/11 happened dumbass. Everyone's way of life was threatened on American soil, of course conservative values re-emerged

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You know the marxist subterfuge in the general populace similar to in this thread makes me sometimes wish WWIII would start with North Korea.

>>87476840
>white is anything I say it is
>Austrian
>white
Weeeeeww, laaaddd. Are your people just getting into understanding what a gene is?

>>87476895
>everyone's way of life was threatened
>at least, that's what the government told me over and over again while they signed the Patriot Act.

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>>87476854
No, that's the bell curve of IQ distribution you liberal idiots despise/deny so much

For you "fucking loving science" you can be quite unscientific, even scienceophobic at times

>>87476952
I know this will spin you out as it usually does, but besides that graph being bullshit, there actually is no hard correlation between intelligence and race...there literally never has been. Of course, you kids don't like that answer.

But keep telling me that I'm "unscientific"...

>>87476952
>muh unsourced graph.

>>87476913
>Slavs-arent-white-meme is real and every single one in Austria has genetic ties to slavs

Is that what you trying to say here? Because how else is Austria (and its neighboring areas) not 100% white throughout history?

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>>87471425
Blame this film. Apocalypse Now is essentially the reason the military won't let directors make a movie using military equipment without strict control over the script and direction. If you want USMIL wargear in your film it has to be pro-military.

Of course you're always free to buy your own aircraft carriers, F-16s, and Abrams tanks and film those.

>>87476716
no, it is that it isn't made by the KKK, it's a adaption of the novel "the clansman" made by D.W Griffith who wasn't in any was associated with the klan and made roughly 500 movies during his life.
In fact it was considered racist when it was released in 1915 and Griffith made his next movie "intolerance" partly as a response to the negative reactions "birth of a nation" received.

>>87477022
Why don't you please indulge me and give me a scientific rundown on whatever the fuck "100 percent white" even is?

>>87477039
>muh retroactive apologetics to pretend Birth of a Nation wasn't racist.
This is revisionist history, you dumb faggot.

>>87477039
>D.W Griffith who wasn't in any was associated with the klan
Lol you keep telling yourself that.

>>87476993
yes I know, it is called scientific racism has been thoroughly debunked by calling the involved scientists "bigot" and "racist" over and over again. Or can you produce anything actually scientific that would refute IQ differences in black and white populations?

>>87477039
>In fact it was considered racist when it was released in 1915
Except it wasn't. Try again.

>>87477110
IQ variations between homogenous groups do not denote "racial" differences in intelligence you retarded cunt. Eat shit.

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>>87477110
Sure is funny that after a century and a half of this meme being bounced around, there still remains no correlative research that proves you right. Oh, that must all be a part of the conspiracy, amirite?

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>>87477086
>>87477067
You want to believe that, and you're going to believe that, but it won't change facts. Sadly.

D.W. Griffith should have made MORE racist movies. You kikes should be swinging from the cottonwoods.

>>87477131
yeah, keep telling yourself that. I am sure you actually believe sub-saharan Africa had anything even resembling a civilation - streets, schools, hospitals, anything - before being OVERTAKEN by those evil whites, because we are all the same after all.

>>87477200
A lot of the same /pol/ talking points you spout out like a trained chimp, but I'm not seeing any convincing research or data.

Sure fires my neurons, gotta say.

>>87471425
>What in the living fuck happened?
It's called propaganda.

>>87477235
I actually posted a graph here that has all the information you need, look up what scientific method has been used etc, then come back with something of the same kind for your point please.

Until then it remains that you discredit valid science by calling the scientist and his work racist, bigoted and simply untrue on the sole base that what it says doesn't go with your worldview

science in itself is meant to show what IS, not what SHOULD BE, so yes, you are as unscientific as it gets

>>87477322
>look up my unsourced graph that I won't tell you where I got it.
Sure is compelling stuff.

>>87477067
nice job not refuting anything I wrote, in fact i actually called it racist so we agree that it was racist

>>87477086
Proof? Why would a clansman make a movie where he showed the dangers of intolerance?

>>87477113
people where protesting it for it's racist content on opening day and it's always been a controversial movie

>>87477322
>he actually thinks his brainwashed /pol/ arguments are "scientific".

>>87477376
>Why would a clansman make a movie where he showed the dangers of intolerance?
Why would you retroactively make a second film to take away controversy from your clearly racist one? Can't imagine why.
>people where protesting it for it's racist content on opening day
Pretty sure this didn't happen. Even Presidents regarded this film in high esteem, it's been the most watched film in American history.

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>>87477355
My bad, I actually posted a half-sourced one from google, here the better version

>>87477379
A 1000 white people make an IQ test and the result gets shown in a graph, a 1000 black people make an IQ test and the result gets shown in a graph. Given that the survery followed correct methodology, explain what is unscientific about this? Do you even know what statistical science is/does?

>>87477437
Ah yes, the. National Longtitudinal Survey of Youth from 1979 in a small sample size, in urban cities... Surely, the definitive answer on race and IQ for literally the entire globe.

>>87477478
You're so far gone, you really are.

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>>87472249

>>87477478
>it's correct methodology because I agree with it

>>87477534
what a compelling argument, truely BTFO my graph. Comeon, seal the deal by calling me a racist

>>87477504
It has a size of 12k that have been followed over multiple years, this is your chance to post something better and more scientific (lol) to validate your point. I am still waiting for your superior-intellect actual arguments and scientific data

>>87477600
>12 thousand kids almost 40 years ago now, is a large enough sample size to accurately determine a correlation for entire "races" and not, on a much more logical scale, a trend in urban city education in the late 70s.
You're retarded,mate.

>>87476301
well, they are though. Especially Britain, France, and Germany

>>87477600
>call me a racist
Well, you've said a lot of racist shut earlier..but if it makes you upset, sure.

>>87477662
>literally none of them are falling apart
Go the fuck outside.

>>87471425
Vietnamese never attacked us you retard

>>87477709
Neither did Iraqis....

>>87477578
>>87477654
Its methodology is correct because the research used actualy scientific method, you know, key points in science that make research actual science. This can be looked up and reproduced if need be, which are 2 of these scientific keypoints (reliability and reproducibility)
You on the other hand keep shouting your insults without having anything to back up your fairytale worldview. Come on, post your superior-intellect science already, I'm still waiting

>>87471425
Never seen Jarhead, huh?

>>87472061
are you high? AN seems like a fucking nightmare, and there are literally no good guys throughout the entire movie

>>87477733
yes Iraq unjustified
Afghan/Pakistan invasion justified

I've never seen a pro Iraq war movie, are there any? Maybe it's just that I can filter out dumb movies and never watch them..

>>87477786
I don't prove negatives. Show me concrete modern data that overwhelmingly supports a direct causal relationship between "race" and intelligence. Now, since race is merely the general term for overlapping genetic variant trends cross-sectionally between homogenous groups over time, you ned to explain to me intelligence trends...tied to those homogenous groups ENOUGH so, that the relationship is in fact causal.

You'd be the first /pol/fuck to do that, I'll wait.

>>87477833
>he thinks invading Afghanistan and Pakistan was justified
Cucked.

>>87477885
*need

>>87477885
You are going full circle now. YOU are the negative. I provide you actual scientific data, you go "no thats not true" without anything to support your claim, then I ask you to explain why its not true and then you say you dont have to explain anything because I am wrong. Wtf

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>>87477786
>It can be reproduced because I said so.
>meanwhile, it never has been exactly reproduced in 40 years.

>>87477973
I want you to read this question again >>87477885

Now, for the third time I've asked, show me concrete and modern data on race and intelligence that shows a causal relationship. You are making that claim.

>>87471425
>99% of all Vietnam movies are just boomers crying about how hard they had it and how hippies and woodstock changed the world man!

Vietnam is literally the worst film genre ever because of this.

>>87477988
Its almost like social sciences are left leaning and refuse to research anything deemed racist by modern standards

The research could very well be reproduced and it would show the exact same outcome, probably even worse given the influence of thug culture on black populations

>>87477908
We should not have tried to destroy Osama Bin Laden and his buddies. This doesn't mean that they shouldn't have left by now.
Please go to /pol/ if you love murderous dictators.

>>87478034
>it doesn't exist because it is a liberal conspiracy. But, it probably could exist! If I believe hard enough.
Right, you don't have anything. Looks like we are done here...as usual with you pathetic faggots.

>>87478033
>literal thousands upon thousands died in a proxy war that we didn't even win and was the most unpopular war effort in American history.

>>87478023
and I want you, for the fifth time, to provide actual scientific data that supports your claim.
Simply saying "there is no correlation because I say so" is not scientific data. Saying "provide me something modern because I dont accept your first graph" is not scientific data. Comeon, I believe you can do this, there must be thousands of actual research papers out there thoroughly debuking this evil pseudo-science about difference in races.

>>87478046
Wut?

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Funny how libshits believe in evolution until it comes to human beings. Then they're suddenly fundamentalist creationists.

>>87478157
I sincerely don't think you understand how claims work. It's not up to ME to prove you wrong, you understand that in some fashion, right?

>>87478176
>>87478210
Funny how conservatives usually have a general disdain for science until they shop around enough to find a disgraced "scientist" who gives them the correct opinions they already like, or scientists they straight up fabricate data from or cherrypick.

>>87478097
It actually is, there was a half-reported-on Harvard study a few years ago that clearly stated that with multiculturalism as practiced in the west, basically everything slowly goes to shit. Social cohesion declines, high-trust high-collaboration neighborhoods become low-trust no-collaboration neighborhoods and so on, all perfectly researched with scientific method in several US cities/districts

The study didnt get much fame beside being called racist and bigoted, but it actually proves the point again. I'm sure you can google this yourself

>>87478298
>conservatives usually have a general disdain for science

what?

>>87478339
I'm sure you honestly believe it exists or is accurate info. Just a coincidence that you agree with it, huh?

>>87478409
You have poor reading comprehension or something?

>>87478339
>It actually is, there was a half-reported-on Harvard study a few years ago that clearly stated that with multiculturalism as practiced in the west, basically everything slowly goes to shit.
Sure thing, pal.

>>87478176
>>87478210
>>87478247
>these again
>most info has been debunked, misquoted or applied beyond its intended variables.
You kids stop posted this because of the exact reason I mentioned earlier. You must be new around here.

>>87478420
There you go you fucking faggot, an old news report for easy digestion and the actual study

you fucking ignorant cunt

http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/the_downside_of_diversity/

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.515.6374&rep=rep1&type=pdf

If you dont trust the link, google Robert putnam e pluribus unum

>>87478547
Lol you didn't even read the blog piece, written by a literal social "scientist":

>If ethnic diversity, at least in the short run, is a liability for social connectedness, a parallel line of emerging research suggests it can be a big asset when it comes to driving productivity and innovation. In high-skill workplace settings, says Scott Page, the University of Michigan political scientist, the different ways of thinking among people from different cultures can be a boon.
"Because they see the world and think about the world differently than you, that's challenging," says Page, author of "The Difference: How the Power of Diversity Creates Better Groups, Firms, Schools, and Societies." "But by hanging out with people different than you, you're likely to get more insights. Diverse teams tend to be more productive."

>In other words, those in more diverse communities may do more bowling alone, but the creative tensions unleashed by those differences in the workplace may vault those same places to the cutting edge of the economy and of creative culture.

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>>87478298
>scientist makes unkosher claim
>liberal press demonizes and disgraces him
>same treatment for anyone who engages with his argument
>climate of fear created
>"the science is settled!"

The kikes have brainwashed you. You know just enough buzzwords to think you're making logical arguments. But your convictions are essentially religious.

>>87478547
>first bullshit article literally praises diversity in America on a macro scale
It must be hard to stick to your "race realist" autism with the internet around and active criticism making you people look like goofy faggots.

I just would prefer if you were honest and told me you simply hate blacks.

>>87478683
I didnt read it indeed, I just wanted to prove the faggot and this other cuck here >>87478479 how fucking stupid they are, believing that pugnams study doesnt exist or that it doesnt say what I said it did

>>87478730
Yes, because all that secret truth is a really hidden behind a liberal smear csmpaign from a boogeywoogey, out to literally silence your shitty opinions.

It can't simply be that your beliefs are retarded and hardly backed by any real science. No, must be a conspiracy.

>>87478781
It didn't really say what you said it did, you never read the fucking thing. He's not even a real scientist you fucking clod.

>>87478730
>ITS DA LIBRUH MEDIA OUT TO SILENCE THEM!
this meme is older than you are.

>>87478819
Actually go the long way and read a few paraghraps below those funny graphs in the actual study, the second link I posted

I know you wont, but it is me who's the stupid one here, right?

>>87478872
>I know you wont, but it is me who's the stupid one here, right?
Well, from the way you've carried on...yeah. If you think anything you posted is some sort of definitive answer on race just because you want that to be so, well, that's a delusion you have to work out.

Btw, I am still waiting for that superior scientific data supporting your hollywood-worldview claims, you sure take your time

>>87478872
Do you feel like you hate blacks?

>>87478940
I'm still waiting for you to back up your initial claims and answer this: >>87477885

>>87478946
Siegmund has showed up, hello. No I dont necessarily, I just think multiculturalism at large is a failer and a part of the answer to the why can be found in racial differences (as can be supported by actual science, which is what we are discussing right now - maybe jump in for that other guy and post me some data)

>>87479006
Ok. Right. And I'm trying to tell you that this entire mindset is retarded and misguided.

>>87479006
If you need to preface a race by saying "not necessarily" hating them, you should rethink your opinions.

>>87478975
I partly did give an answer, yes, I dont know of any research on racial IQ differences, but that's more because it doesnt go through any ethic commitee* of any modern social science faculty

* Yes, that actually exists. By now you have proven that you have never seen an university from the inside, so let me tell you: studies/research actually have to pass ethic standards, which (if necessary) get reviewed by said commitee. Research on racial differences doesnt pass these because of political correctness, what with it being "racist" and "problematic".

>>87479006
>multiculturalism is a failure because sometimes racists don't get along with minorities sometimes.
>but it is a complete failure, just look at this blog article from a social scientist who actually says the exact opposite of what I'm really saying.
>but /pol/ told me it was a failure, whatever the living fuck that even means.
>I literally think multiculturalism is a new thing that just happened in my lifetime.

>>87479133
>Research on racial differences doesnt pass these because of political correctness
Have you literally never entertained the possibility that this is primarily because it isn't scientific? Why can't you people even consider that? You make everything a fucking conspiracy...has that never come up in your brain?

What if it's just not scientific? You people talk about agendas all the time, but what about the faggots who push what you are? Is there no self-awareness anymore? You're being conned, mate.

>>87479143
>because sometimes racists don't get along with minorities

yeah, that's the reason - you got that exactly right.

Women not walking though Central Park alone at night? It's because of those racists.

White flight from inner cities because "criminality went up" aka blacks moved in? Its the KKK's fault.


Those racists are the core of all evil, cant wait for whites to finally die out

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>>87478791
I know it goes against your fundamentalist ideology, but on race the science is settled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5ROhCoKTIU

>>87479133
>yes, I dont know of any research on racial IQ differences
But you believe that race correlates to intelligence anyway?

>>87479226
I explained to you already that it is scientific, it follows scientific methodology and does anything else that qualifies research as science. I really dont think you even know what science is, do yourself a favor and look up on Scientific Theory, its first semester stuff that tells what's science, what qualifies as science and what does not. Seriously, read at least the first sentences of the wiki article of it

>>87479240
Yes, every black is at fault for crime in inner cities and "white flight" obviously had nothing to do with redlining and racism in government or politics is a myth devised by your liberal boogeymen who somehow manage to apparently run the universe yet lose all the elections.

It's 5D chess I guess.

>>87479308
>it's scientific because I said so, yet I don't even know what it even is I believe and have no research to back it up in the first place...since I never looked.
You're pretty sad, you can't even entertain that you aren't being scientific.

>>87479261
>the science is settled
It literally isn't even a science and this graph doesn't really prove what you pretend it does.

It's the same four or five charts, it doesn't seem to matter to you how often they get btfo, huh?

>>87479408
Where did they get BTFO? Because some virgin here showed up and said "lol not true"?
None of you has produced anything of value to support your brainwash, lol

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>>87479321
>inner city crime isn't the fault of blacks
>it's the fault of whites moving out and leaving the blacks to their own devices

The kikes have done a number on you, man.

>>87479452
>if race realism is true why can't you prove it
>oh yeah well that source is racist

It's called circular argumentation. It's how you defend weak ideologies.

>>87479452
When you lurk more than a day, you realize that these graphs (always the same ones every day) will just get ignored or btfo when everyone is frustrated with your autistic ass.

In a sample size of SAT scores looking at the relationship between income levels and score, it's obvious that among the sample sizes there is a marked difference between white and black students. Instead of looking at real possible factors related to this, you go full retard and make (what continues to be an unsubstantiated claim) a claim that it has to be caused by their race.

Not the school programs, not socio-economics, not environment, not any of the things that normal fucking people consider...

But you make it about race because you just don't really like blacks.

>>87479470
I think you have trouble reading.

>>87479606
>oh yeah well that source is racist
Literally nobody said this. The sources have been out of context graphs, an article written by a social scientist and that tiresome image macro mostly comprised of literally faked info.

>/pol/ derails another thread, again.

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>>87479657
>i don't need to defend my convictions if i call you dumb
Typical.

>>87479901
>I'm choosing to be obstinate so I don't need to be challenged by any argument you made.

Because it's accurate

Vietnam was a war between innocent american soldiers and innocent viet farmers. No one wanted to fight but were forced to, there was nothing to win

Iraq was righteous holy american warriors vs evil terrorist sand niggers

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>>87479705
>ignores the six or seven sourced image macros posted
>pretends only two were posted
>pretends he refuted them
>claims victory
This is why no one is taking liberalism seriously anymore.

>>87480119
>I don't even know what "liberalism" is or means.

>>87479606
>>87480119

They just ignore everything and dont come with anything on their own, its really talking to children here telling them that Santa Claus isnt real and them refuting it because they want him to be real so hard

>>87480199
You don't need to samefag, honey.

>>87471564
Yeah?

>>87480119
You csm keep posting SAT scores. It still doesn't prove that their scores are causal BECAUSE of their race.

>>87480222
The next stupid assumption on your side, the smart ones would realize the difference in writing style and me being the original Austrian racist that started this shitshoe

>>87471425
The US military will provide, for free, a bunch of stuff to a movie production, like soldiers as extras, access to authentic equipment, locations and vehicles and all kinds of other stuff.
Only condition is that they get script approval, so if your movie takes a dump on the military and how shitty war is you don't get free stuff, if you suck off the Military Industrial Complex you can save hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars.

It's that simple. The first Avengers movie didn't show the military because they had, as a plot point, the "secret council" which launched the nuke at New York and was in-universe above the authority of the US Army which they didn't like and thus didn't support.
Transformers have always been pro-army and had access to all kinds of crazy military tech like the Ospreys.

reminder that the pentagon keeps an office dedicated to make hollywood shill for them

https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/exclusive-documents-expose-direct-us-military-intelligence-influence-on-1-800-movies-and-tv-shows-36433107c307

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>>87480267
>being this in denial

>>87471564
Yeah it could be argued that brainlets are easily won over by displays of grandeur and heroism in film.

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>>87480172
>oh you called me a liberal but you didn't differentiate between whether you meant "classical enlightenment liberal" or "supporter of the democratic party" hehe you're dumb I win!

>>87472679

Starship Troopers is a parody of gung-ho martial culture. Why would you use it to defend that stance?

>>87472631
>documentary depictions of heroic exploits
>documentary
L M A O

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https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country
Don't believe it though, it is pol after all :^)
funny I remember there was a list of this in wikipedia but I guess it was too much for liberals to handle

>>87471425
>Jarhead
>Americans are heroes
>Brothers
>Americans are heroes
There are plenty of movies that portray servicemen negatively but I suppose if you cherry pick enough you can pretend every movie is about how America can do no wrong.

>>87472679

are you 16 years old? Do you seriously base your world-view and macho-larp to some satirical b-movie?

>ye ye see its beta to love peace and not wanting a bit of healthy war... look this hollywood movie about cgi video game warzone really tickled my boner

>>87476993
>doesn't actually refute this
>just acts sanctimonious and pretends this is proofs

>>87472994
Hollywood doesn't even acknowledge Johnny Got His Gun even existed because it goes against the revisionist version of Dalton Trumbowho didn't write ANYTHING fictionwise until he got hired to write movies in the late 40s

>>87471425
State funding

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>>87481292
>North Korea
>Purple
>Israel
>Not purple
Clearly fake