/tpg/ - Twin Peaks General

>people legitimately criticize The Return for its obvious flaws
>they must be too dumb to understand it because it is very complex, avant-garde and straight out of the art house
>they are mad because it wasn't like the original series
>The Return is unlike everything before except the excessive use of tropes (non-linear storytelling, surrealism, time travel and superpowers are novelties)
>David Lynch is a genius and everyone who likes The Return has a high IQ and is an intellectual
>the original show was shit anyway and didn't change the world of television at all
>even FWWM is better than the first two seasons
>Reddit and Twitter don't love the high IQ only show that is TP:TR
>avant-gardism totally does still exist and the fans of TP:TR are familiar with the history of art house movies and surrealism in film
>the amount of substance in TP:TR totally justifies the creation of hundreds of fan theories

This season was a beautiful piece of art that failed to deliver a fitting continuation to Twin Peaks and ultimately misunderstood what made the original so beloved in the first place

I THINK I'M HIIIIIIGH
I DON'T KNOW WHERE I AAAAAM

>>87433318
>ultimately misunderstood what made the original so beloved in the first place
It understood, just didn't care to repeat itself

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Post em, boys.

>>87433298
Is this the new pasta?

kill me

Cross post >>87431374 Lynch does this too and it's infuriating because he has genuine talent as a director.

>>87433298
>even FWWM is better than the first two seasons
why delegitimatize your whole pasta by saying this, literally everyone agrees with it
>>87433318
uh maybe it just wanted to be a beautiful piece of art, it doesn't have to fittingly continue twin peaks or replicate it (it shouldn't have.)

>>87433396
>it doesn't have to fittingly continue twin peaks
It doesn't have to, but it should have

Instead we just got a Lynch project with a Twin Peaks coat of paint

>>87433429
>a Lynch project with a Twin Peaks coat of paint
i'm totally fine with this. i guess i'm more of a lynch fan than a peaks fan.

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Friendly reminder that it's been confirmed that Eddie Vedder recorded a song that plays after the Twin Peaks finale. It confirms /tpg/ never get their minds back. (Pic is evil /tpg/)
Listen: https://youtu.be/pXth84G7dkM

>it was all a dream
>the ending is in the real/our world
>Gordon will remember the "unofficial" version
>Lynch is Gordon
>he makes Twin Peaks
woah

>Carrie is Laura Palmer in all but name - same face, same body, tragic life with her own BOB-like figure
>Cooper completely ignores her plight and her wellbeing in order to complete his mission of saving a girl who's been dead for 25 years

>>87433298
>the original show was shit anyway and didn't change the world of television at all

Hahahaha
L Y N C H E D

>>87432703
I'll also have to add - btw I don't actually LIKE this idea, the idea of everything being a dream is an obvious and easy copout - but the more I think about it the more it feels like the actual intended conclusion to the saga.

This scene is the perfect moment to declare it was all just a dream. If Lynch/Frost wanted to say it anywhere they would say it there. The big conflicts / storylines were resolved there. The Doppelgänger is back in the lodge, BOB is no more, Doomfist realized his destiny. Cooper and Diane are back together. Most of the important cast who are still alive and were in both of the shows are present. Bunny girls are bringing snacks and everyone's celebrating.

If you wanted to say "lul it was just a dream" it would be here.

>>87433298
>>the original show was shit anyway and didn't change the world of television at all

Sonic was never good!

>>87433392
Because underestimating your audience is the biggest crime in television and film

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>>87433352
Objective ranking

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>>87433318
I think The Return was never meant to "deliver" I think David and Mark just wanted to step into a world and explore it again, without having some ultimate point to it.

That's what Lynch loved about the original show, that he could just have a world to step into and explore, not answering questions. People can critique this by saying, well why wasn't all of it set in Twin Peaks if he loves the world so much? Well, it's not just the idea of Twin Peaks, but how it presented its world, it's very much unlike all of his films. The Return is no different, the Las Vegas storyline is just that idea again, establishing a setting, and characters within it and letting that breathe and just be.

To me the ending feels like Coopers search for answers and significance, he hopes he can save Laura by bringing her home and reconciling with her family but he doesn't find any of that, even those names "Chalfont/Tremond" mean nothing where he is.

>>87433482
I didn't read the rest of the quote chain, but to be clear "it was all a dream" in this case isn't the same as in most cases. In Lynch's mind, life is a dream, and so dreams are just as important and substantial as "reality" - which may not even exist.

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>>87433352

>>87433529
I don't think you understand how ranking systems work. If you're only ever going to use three of the numbers you may as well just use a star system instead.

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good production design coming through

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>>87433482
Why are people forgetting all about Jeffries whenever they talk about this scene?

Cooper goes through the same exact thing, even the lights begin to flicker and he yells out "GORDON!" it's the same thing that happened with Jeffries.

Cooper and him even say the same line "We live inside a dream" and clearly what Jeffries experienced wasn't a dream, he disappeared and they all forgot he was ever there until 25 years later when it came back to Cole in that dream.

I figure a similar thing happened in that room, they all forgot about the one punch man defeating Bob, they forgot about Naido and Mr. C, and Cooper himself showing up.

Their lives continue, but Cooper moved on.

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DOugei get happY ending

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>>87433352

>>87433558
I wasn't under the impression this was just an internal rating of the episodes in relation to each other. I thought I was rating them in relation to everything else out there.

>>87433298
>spend 16 hours building up to a practical joke on the audience which is actively punished for enjoying the show and caring about it
man its so deep...

>>87433352
I can't remember what happened in each episode, sorry. The way the parts are segmented feels arbitrary.

>>87433498
It's one thing to present people with a situation in which they must organise pieces together to form a whole, but it's another to deliberately obfuscate meaning and crowbar in surrealist nonsense

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>>87433588
>Cooper will never be home again
>Cooper may not even have a home anymore

>>87433318

No, I disagree with most of that. It continued the story in a way that made sense but was still unexpected and fresh and it avoided wallowing in nostalgia for itself. It have my issues with it, mostly that it seems so intent on avoiding any sentimentality for its own characters that it came across as pointlessly cynical on occasion but at the heart of it there's a good story that's mostly well told, some questionable relevant digressions aside.

It's good for mostly different reasons than the old show, but that doesn't mean it fails as a sequel.

>>87433588
Daily Reminder that's original Cooper.

I still can't get that ending out of my head.
Is this how Americlaps felt after 9/11?
Is this how libtards felt after November 8?
Part 18 will haunt me for the rest of my life.

>>87433482

This is my conclusion.

After BOB is defeated Coop's face gets superimposed and time starts glitching.
This is where Coop, having overcome his doppelganger, becomes a magician/spirit of the lodge.
He instantly teleports himself to the great northern and arbitrarily uses his "room key" to access a random door and enter the lodge.

There he is greeted by MIKE, who repeats the magician chant, officially accepting Coop.

The "reality" is like a dream to a lodge spirit. That's why Coop can jump through space like that and reality "falls apart" for him.

After that he is no longer concerned by mundane tasks and life and instead works directly for the Fireman as an agent of the lodge.

As such he is tasked with preventing Judy from torturing Laura further and corrupting creation overall.
He attempts to retrieve Laura in the past and fails. And then he uses further clues to go into Judy's pocket dimension/reality.
In order to achieve that he needs to perform an "evil act", same as how before you need to perform an evil act to access the black lodge.
He reenacts the rape of Diane by talking her into it and both of them are transported. Diane can't handle it and reverts to the host personality and leaves. He possibly merges with "Richard".
We know Judy reigns there because of a couple of clues. "Laura" has a white horse statue in her house and she works at "Judy's" which also has a white horse ride in front of it. This is Judy's realm. Because of that Dale/Richard doesn't hold any punches and swiftly deals with some random truckers and doesn't care about the corpse at "Laura's" house. He also doesn't small talk with "Laura" and just wants to finish his mission.

The end is open-ended but it implies the fake reality of Judy's making falls apart when Laura snaps out of it.

>>87433660
It's how people felt after the Sopranos ended

>>87433581
Jeffries and him achieved an ascended state of consciousness and became unstuck from reality/the dream.
Do some teachings about Transcendent Meditation say that reality is just a dream or something like that?

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>>87433352

>>87433665
not a word

>>87433471
if it was like this then kyle would be kyle and sheryl would be sheryl in the end

>>87433298
I agree with some of the things you are saying, but you sound like a douche

>>87433689
>tfw twin peaks is just a transcendental meditation propaganda

>>87433665
Cooper did not become a magician, he became Phillip Jeffries. He is in the same exact situation as he was in fwwm, jumping through time, people forgetting about him and only being aware of him in dreams (which is why he lives inside a dream; when Cooper and Jeffries say "we live inside a dream" they're referring to fleeting existances such as themselves, not to every single person on earth) Cooper repeats the dream line from Jeffries, he seemingly teleports from one location to another and in the end he is confused about what year it is.
I guess Jeffries transcended humanity at one point but Coop is not quite there yet

>>87433298
It's not deep, it's fun tv, bozo

>>87433665
What does the white horse mean?
(No, don't quote the fucking woodsman, please.)

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>>87433352

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>>87433766

>>87433726
I am a douche. If my life wasnt messed up at the moment I would never even attempt to convince someone of my opinion. I'm just using the internet to distract myself. Also, I am very sleepy and not a native speaker.

>>87433766
Either death, as it's been a signal of oncoming death and the Horseman of death rides a pale horse, or cocaine/drug abuse, or it's just an incarnation/symbol of Judy

>>87433749
He didn't become Jeffries, he came to be in the exact same position as Jeffries: displaced from time and space

>>87433766
pale horses have symbolized death for centuries

>>87433749
This makes sense

>>87433298
>although
I think what you wanted to say is despite kek

>>87433659
Original Cooper was unambiguous in his farewell to the Jones family.

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>>87433766
Denial.

Sarah sees the horse, refusing to accept the reality of the situation, suppresses it and goes on allowing the abuse to continue.

Laura whispers to Cooper in Part 2, he sees the horse and the scene literally starts over with MIKE asking "is it future or is it past?" he then enters the story in denial and comes out into the world as Dougie.

Part 18, back in the chair with MIKE "Is it future or is it past" and then The Arm "Is it about the little girl who lived down the lane?" Cooper remembers what Laura whispered to him, but this time he doesn't see a horse, he leaves the lodge fully conscious of her words, which is why he's much more stern in Part 18.

In the end he fails, because he couldn't save or undo what trauma she lived through and he finds himself back in the chair with Laura whispering into his ear what he'll never be able to accept.

"That's where you'll find Judy" Judy is a symbol for Infinity, Judy is the loop that Cooper is stuck in, the denial that is enabling the cyclical abuse to go on forever.

>>87433895
That's embarassing. Thanks.

>>87433749
>Now I am become Jeffries, boiler of water.

>>87433786
Explain giving Part 12 equal scoring as 3.

>>87433901
He said he is Sonny Jim's father and he would return.

>>87433689

Seeing how it's pretty much just hinduist mysticism regurgitated for white yuppies, chances are there's something in there but Lynch has been depicting dreams as reality and reality as dreams in his movies before he got into meditation.

>>87433799
You should really confront and work on your problems instead but I guess you know that already. I wish you the best of luck.

>>87433964
But he isn't, Dougie is.

>>87433787
>Implying "the horse is the white of the eyes" is a proper answer.

>>87433749

But reality very much is a dream to the lodge spirits since it is malleable to them and they can alter it significantly.
They can alter past events, make people and places appear and disappear, they view it from outside and so on.

Bear in mind that the "dream" does not refer to a literal dream, but rather how they view our reality, which to us looks realistic and tangible.
To them it's just something they can manipulate with their mind or invocations.

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It was generally assumed that "the white of the eyes" referred to the sclera, but what if it was actually referring to the pale clouding effect that we see on dopplegangers?

>>87433980
Dougie is Coop's double anon.
They share the same DNA and shit.

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>There's probably many /tpg/ anons who have killed themselves already
Press F to pay respects.

>>87433476
>Is it the story of a girl who lived down the lane? Is it?
Cooper is trying to hold onto the old story of Twin Peaks, while it's time to start a new story, of Richard and Linda.

>>87434067
/tpg/ fags are cancer

>be jeffries
>share the info you gathered about maybe the most important thing with incompetent, senile guy

>>87434067
>killing yourself before reading Frost's book
they were never real fans

>>87434074
How does that relate to Audrey though?

>>87434063
So sending Dougie is keeping to his promise.

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Do you guys think Season 3 would have been better or worse without Mark Frost?

Say he wrote it with Robert Engels again like he did Fire Walk With Me. Would the season have been more psychological if it was? Feels like Lynch tries to return to that in Part 18.

>>87434079
yet here you are.

I hate fags like you.

Let's meet, I'll fucking beat the shit out of you!

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The last word

>>87434106
it would have been the same, except the few scenes with the old cast would have been replaced by sweeping and window cleaning

>>87433318
The return was turning twin peaks into a David lynch film
There's always the comfy stuff at the start and then the weird end third that makes you rethink it all

>>87433698
Pretty much, except 17 should be 8 or 9, it's retrospectively saved by superimposed Coop's face.

>>87434106
Frost is a treasure, and a vital part of Twin Peaks.

>>87434106
Do you think they fucked? I think they fucked.

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>>87434067
>there are Anons who offed themselves before it was announced that there'll be a 3rd season and never got to see it

>>87434151
No it isn't, the first half is still garbage, even if it is on poropouse
It actively punishes you for caring about the first 16 hours of the show, obviously if someone really enjoyed those he would rank 17 lower, people who hated all the dougie shit and subplots probably have a higher regard of it

>>87434156

There is no such thing as homosexuals.
It's all media created to destroy the nuclear family.

>>87434104
Nah, he went himself because fuck all that Judy shit, Janey E is a qt, Doppelganger 3 can deal with that nonsense.

>>87434151
I don't get the hate for Part 17. People are taking the fight against BOB at face value, when Cooper's superimposed face and everything after he wakes up fuck with all that.

>>87433946
Audrey scenes were funny

>>87434079
As opposed to the shitfest that is the rest of /tv/? lmao

>>87434130
He's pretty much right, other than it being a disappointment. Lynch went out of his way to shit on everyone in the process of jerking out one last hurrah.

>>87434123
Wake up to yourself, clown.

Did Laura's scream signify that she became aware of the dream/reality and that BTFO Judy or did Laura's scream signify that Cooper failed and Laura will forever be the girl that was raped and killed by her father, as the final picture is of Laura whispering into Cooper's ear (probably whispering what she had whispered before, that her father was killed)?

Sad ending :(

>>87434101
I was thinking more about the fact that the Arm said it. Audrey, I think, also realized that the dream of Twin Peaks was being altered and in the end of her story ended up crossing into the new dream together with electricity.

>>87434189
It being stupid on porpouse doesen't make it smart, I don't understand that argument. Seeing Bob being erased as a joke after 50 hours right before being told that nothing in the show ever mattered, as much as I understand how it can be fascinating and subversive, did not need 18 hours of runtime

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House of Judy, place where Booper wanted.

>>87434181
I loved all the subplots and I think 17 was pretty great.

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>>87434191
It was one scene.

Was it funnier than Mr. Jackpots? Was it better than the fucking purple world sequence? Than Dougie getting replaced?

Stop being contrarian.

>>87434106

I don't know. I have to admit, I only have a very vague idea as to what Frost actually contributed to Twin Peaks as a whole.

>>87433659

That's clearly a tulpa. No need to complicate the story more than it already is.

>Judy is a symbol for Infinity

>Judy
>Jew-dee
>Jew

The Eternal Jew.

>>87433653
Agree to disagree I guess. As far as I'm concerned they basically scrapped the vibe and story of the original to make it about a cosmic good vs evil battle with Laura as the chosen one

It was an entertaining ride but I don't feel like it was a sequel to what came before it

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explain this to me /tpg/

>>87434251
It's a pretty safe bet that Frost is largely responsible for all the lovable characters in the show, and the coherency of the world.

I think Frost is the reason Lynch loves Twin Peaks as much as he does, because the two of them wrote something unlike Lynch ever had before that. His films don't really have characters or worlds like Twin Peaks does.

>>87434281
bugs...

>>87434281
Reddit.

>>87434306
easy on the lore

>>87434248
I had to watch the first 4 episodes on my laptop in low quality

>>87434252
>Tulpa or thoughtform, is a concept in mysticism of a being or object which is created through spiritual or mental powers. Modern practitioners use the term to refer to a type of imaginary friend.[5] A scientific study on the subject of tulpas conducted in 2015 classified them as "imaginary companions who are said to have achieved full sentience after being conjured through ‘thought-form’ meditative practice".
>We literally see him created by Mike using Coops hair
What the fuck are you doing?
It's a doppelganger, not some imaginary shit.
>No need to complicate the story more than it already is.
Follow your own advice.

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>>87433298
*gordon cole voice* DAMN STRAIGHT SONNY

>>87434281
Statues are racist and need to be removed.

>>87434399
actually that's fat shaming

>>87434274

Lynch is woke af and slipped that in under Frosty's radar

>>87433588
but thats not dougie its an entirely different 2nd tulpa

Will there be ever something as good as The Return? I have low hopes for the next season of The Young Pope.

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COMPUTER... ENHANCE!

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So is the soundtrack coming out tomorrow or the 22nd?

>>87434520
Why did Lynch ruin Laura's perfect redemption ending with her being endlessly tortured?

>>87434517
How can a house be so spooky?

>>87433946
12 was a 10/10 lynching
Everyone assumed something big would happen like cooper getting his mind back because of the "let's rock" tagline, which turned out to be more boring fbi sipping on le bordeaux shit at the very beginning
The entire episode is then terrible drags on, it even includes cole and the french lady to fill time. Sfter enduring all that it ends on the "big reveal" of audrey and her weird crippled husband, in a scene that goes nowhere
Only a true masochist can rightfully enjoy that episode

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>yfw Ben Horne was a 1950s Chad

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>>87434549
he looks like john justice wheeler kek

>>87434549
good hair Tbh

>>87434537
Because he's a cruel old sociopath that delights in the misery of others.

is episode 8 the biggest pleb filter in TV history?

>>87434543
It's actually a good episode when you go with zero expectations, it's really no different from the other parts.

>>87434606
Yes, with people who like it being the plebs of course

>>87434606
No, the actual pleb filters are part 12 and 18.

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Rewatching Season 1 and getting triggered by all the stuff that's been retconned. Pic related is the "Palmer house" apparently.

>>87434606
Episode 18 is.

>>87434537
He didn't, anon. That is still the ending.

Remember that time is relative in the lodge, this ending makes more sense if anything after The Return, not only is Cooper comforting Laura but he too is comforted and finally at peace having been able to let go of her.

>>87434634
looks the same to me tbqh

>>87434634
>retconned
>not another indication it's a dream/alternate dimension

>>87434543
I could totally have gotten behind a good LYNCHING with an episode that drags. The problem is, the episode doesn't "drag" it's just a clipshow.

It's a consequence of not writing the script as a television show, they had all these scenes that needed to be in the story but they didn't have the place for them anywhere else.

It's just disjointed.

>>87433471
I reckon it's more like this
>Coop was the dreamer and 'wakes up' when it goes to black in the sheriffs station
>One chance out between TWO worlds
>Teapot Jeffries flips the infinity symbol to show Coop the whereabouts of JUDY'S in the DoppleWorld, not necessarily the location of Judy
>Coop and Diane cross over into DoppleWorld at the 430 mile point (Day becomes Night) and Coop takes on certain DoppleCoop characteristics in the same way DoppleCoop had some normal Coop characteristics
>Diane sees DoppleDiane (Linda) at the motel
>Coop reminds Diane or DoppleCoop who raped her so she fucks off after the sex
>DoppleCoops name was Richard in DoppleWorld, Richard Horne in the normal world is actually Richard Jr.
>Coop finds DoppleLaura (Carrie) not actual Laura (Short hair vs long hair ala the two coops) and takes her to DoppleTwin Peaks
>Carrie simply takes on the memories of Laura at the end ala how DoppleCoop has the memories of real Coop
>Waiting room Laura has actually been DoppleLaura the whole time (I feel like I know her, but sometimes my arms bend back)

Only thing that I can't account for is how Coop ended up at the Great Northern with Cole and Diane after 'waking up', what the actual fate of real Laura is after she met Cooper in the woods, why the motel changed after the sex scene and why there wasn't a familiar face in the Palmer house when they went there

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>Richard Horne had nothing to do with "two birds with one stone"
Lynch, you bastard.

tammy is cute!

>>87434634
That's because you only saw the real house in the pilot and fire walk with me. It isn't a retcon, it's just them returning to the actual house on location.

Season 1 was shot in LA, only the pilot was shot in Washington State.

>>87434517
It's probably just the lighting and/or my monitor, but it seems like the shutters on one side of the house are different from the other side.

>>87434151
I love that part, but it doesn't excuse One Punch Lad vs. Beachball Bob.

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Why are people so unwilling to accept that Judy is not a character or person on the show?

She obviously isn't in Sarah, that isn't even up for arguing because we know Sarah and The Jumping Man are part of each other. But say you wanted to ignore that fact, if Judy was Sarah then why would Jeffries show Cooper an infinity symbol and tell him "this is where you'll find Judy"

the more I think about Judy the more clear it becomes that it's a metaphor and not a spirit.

>>87434606
No, James singing "Just You" is.

>>87434801
The facade is obviously different.

>>87434520
I hate how empty and lifeless the Red Room was in The Return. It was such an intimate place in the original series.

>>87434607
I'm just skimming through it now
actually it does other have good moments like Sarah/JUDY at home, harry dean stanton giving money to the limping blood donor and Ben Horne being told about Richard killing the kid.
those individual moments are great but the shit moments are just so bad that they really bring it all down; Tammy and Dr Amp especially
>>87434670
good point, and as a result it feels like the episode isn't going anywhere until Audrey appears
that's why I got a good, satisfying lynching out of it though. after enduring through all this weird unrelated muck there's that panning shot of Audrey staring down Charlie (which gets you excited) and then you realised this cripple is her husband and they're just going around in circles arguing with each other

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>>87434520
lighting-wise, S2 red room was goddamn perfect

>>87434807
probably because Jeffries tells dooper that he's met her before

>>87434807
"8" is infinity symbol for audience
for cooper it is hint to "708"

>>87434738
in ep 17 cole recalled coop telling him 25 years ago about killing two birds with one stone, right? what he was talking about?

>>87434912
>Bad Coop has met evil before
well duh

>>87434872
blame digital

someone post a gif/webm of boop saying "WHAT IS THIS"

>>87434932
BOB and Judy.

>>87434738
It kind of did. Richard being electrified on the boulder revealed to Mr. C which two people lied to him.

>>87434946
and LED light

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>>87434872
at least we got the mauve zone, I thought those scenes did a good job of recapturing the feeling of the red room scenes from the original.

>>87434946
For me, the lack of creative lighting was the bigger disappointment

>>87434981
and curtains with polyester

Season One Audrey is best girl and there is not even a fuckin competition.

>>87434807

then explain why mr. C/bob is looking for her.

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>>87434951
He says it off screen though.

>>87434939
they're obviously referring to a person
coop keeps asking "who is judy"

>>87434807
Because Gordon literally tells us that Judy is an entity, not a metaphor.

>>87435002
not when he's sent to TP sheriff station at the end

>>87434807
>because we know Sarah and The Jumping Man are part of each other
ahaha please be bait

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>>87435018

>>87435048
damn i thought he did then
so he's not on screen saying it at any point?

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>>87435032

>>87434807
> why would Jeffries show Cooper an infinity symbol and tell him "this is where you'll find Judy"

it's not an infinity symbol, it is an 8. Judy appears in episode 8. Meta as fuck

>>87434987
It was definitely cool, but it had too much shitty CGI, and it didn't have the same sense of intimacy or life as the Red Room. There's a lot of empty space, the Giant and whatsherface are very still and barely interact, etc.

>>87435005
>He's "met" "her" but still doesn't know who "she" is.
Because she's not a person.

>>87435063
the camera cuts back to him only after he's finished saying it

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>>87435032
House

GOTA LIGHT?

>>87435085
what about in the arm wrestling episode after he steps out the elevator? that's the only other one i remember but i think there may have been a couple more times before that

Was Jowday the spirit that broke out of the glass box?

>>87434932

We don't actually know. Could be…

>Destroying/nullifying BOB & Judy together
>Saving Laura and breaking Judy's reign
>Saving Laura and cutting the influence of the Black Lodge

I think The Fireman is simply reminding Coop of his original Jowday mission with Cole & Jeffries. The scene likely takes place just before Coop wakes up from his Dougie phase (the whole lack of an FBI pin thing). The “Richard and Linda” line is interesting, in that we just don't know if Coop knows of the alternate reality (though he doesn't seem to when reading Linda's Dear-Richard note), or is the Fireman trying to wake Coop up to the “real” life, in the same way that “you're mother's name is Sarah” line troubled Carrie Page so.

Just as it should be, there are multiple ways to interpret all this, based on what you have seen/read/experienced in life before.

I somewhat feel as though Coop achieved his goal at the end, even if he doesn't feel it or comprehend it. He is just a piece on the board, and the Fireman or White Lodge can see the game playing out from up on high. Coop, the sweetheart he was, was expendable in the ultimate goal of the entities puppeteering humanity at the time. Another possibility is that, as many have already said, that it is a message of how futile it is to try and change fate or interrupt the agenda of the greater cosmos; you will just get slapped down and left stranded and perplexed.

>>87435104
I don't have that episode downloaded right now so I can't check, but I think that he was on screen when he was saying it

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>Lucy saves everyone
WTF

>>87435113
It was the experiment

experiment = judy?

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THERE'S ANOTHER US SOMEWHERE WITH MUCH BETTER LIVES

>>87435154
Yeah, kinda, maybe, not really.

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>>87433352

THE BIG BAD BOBCAT

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>>87435063

>>87435187
I love The Return but you should feel ashamed of that.

>>87435179
please leave

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Guys.

>>87435203
why would i be ashamed to have enjoyed something anon :-)

>>87435202
nice, do you have it in gif/webm?

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>>87435171

he does the classic Philip Jeffries in Philadelphia confused slouch here

>>87435091
well fuck

>>87435179
what did she mean by this?

>>87435219
i cant in to webm with subs

>>87435158
yes

>>87435154
did not age well

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Kiss me, anon

>>87433392
>>87433637
twin peaks is not ambiguous because Lynch couldn't think of a proper ending or because Lynch was lazy, the ending is supposed to feel ambiguous as fuck to enhance the dreamlike atmosphere and make you, the viewer, feel as lost and confused as cooper is in that final scene

>>87435158
>Source of all Garmabozia and BOB in episode 8

Yeah the experiment/mother/Judy are without a doubt one and the same. Sarah is questionable, but the fact that the portal that Diane came out of was originally pointing to Sarah's house before Fireman changed it (and Diane was being held by mother when she was trapped in the Velvet room), is pretty damming.

>>87434674
stupid theory shut up. Cooper was clearly Richard before he got to the 430 point. Once he left The Red Room the second time Kyle is clearly playing the Richard character already

>>87435342
>Velvet room
is this a reddit name for the purple sea stuff?

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>>87435342
You know what else is pretty damming that she isn't Judy? The fact that her face is superimposed on The Jumping Man.

>>87435342
>the portal that Diane came out of
You mean Mr. C?

>>87435364
>HDS is 91 years old

>>87435212
So it was adhesive tape after all.

>>87435091
Jumping man

Frogs jump

Sarah eats the frog

Sarah is Jumping Man

>>87435342
>>87435371
I feel like Jumping Man could be Judy's representative, though.

>>87435390
Also the frog has a long pointy noise thing.

When Sarah takes off her face you briefly see a long, needle-like thing stick out for a few frames.

>>87435371

The first time we see Jumping Man is when Jeffries showed up and started talking about Judy

>>87435358
What makes you say that? He's not the same in the first part of that story. He's more solemn but that's because he's back at the start, with his memories intact this time.

Season 3 begins with MIKE asking Cooper "Is it future or is it past?" this is the beginning of the story in terms of chronological order as Cooper experiences it. Part 18 goes back to this moment, but after he's lived through the "dream"

This is the Cooper that knows he's lost 25 years to the lodge.

>>87433318

He totally understands. All the stuff with Coop 2.0 before he starts going back in time was classic TP. That's just not what Lynch really wanted to do for 18 hours

>>87435371
Jumplo is part of Judy. As well as well monkey under the Jumplo mask. As well as Granny who owns living spaces. As well as her kid, and all the frogmoth eggs. Maybe Bob too.

>>87435212
>director says that the ultimate evil is explaining things
>last shot is of Laura seemingly explaining something to Coop, and as a result Coop is devastated

>>87435358
Well he might have taken on the Richard persona after DoppleCoop died and his face superimposes on the screen, and the rest?

>>87435442
Yeah all 20 minutes of it.

If he understands it, I don't know if that's better or worse. The sense of place, community and warmth was all gone from this season, even when they were back in TP. The way we get those few good scenes with Coop just to tease us before the godawful resolution in 17 is inexcusable, even if Lynch did it on purpose

>>87434674
>One chance out between TWO worlds
It's chants.

Does Kyle wear contacts as Dark Coop? His eyes are so god damn black. They really made him like awful in 17, even his teeth

After Laura disappears, and Coop ends up back in the lodge, he leaves again and then he's at Glastonbury Grove where Diana is waiting for him. Is he still in the original timeline? Did Diana go there straight from the Great Northern basement?

>>87435482
no because hes clearly cooper before he goes through the door to the dutchmans

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Here's a poll.

http://www.strawpoll.me/13879597

>>87435551
No Kyle is just an amazing actor.

Did you know he also played Cooper and Dougie in the series? Amazing huh? It took me a while to realize it too.

>>87435551
Yeah, I read somewhere it was Kyle's idea

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>>87435212
>recording tape

>>87435551

Yes. I think you can even see the contact edges on one of the close ups after the Fireman first sends him from the woods to the sheriff station.

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https://www.amazon.com/Twin-Peaks-Limited-Event-Soundtrack/dp/B071LTP1C4/ref=tmm_msc_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

Soundtrack tomorrow, boys.

I really hope that "Dark Mood Woods / Red Room" is the studio version and not the shit one from the season 2 soundtrack. It's one of the best themes from the show.

>>87435385
>HDS will die in your lifetime

>>87435567

No, Coop emerges in the Grove and meets Diane in the new timeline he created by "rescuing" Laura. But it's the same version of Diane that was in the original timeline because Coop brought her (and Gordon Cole) with him when he left the Twin Peaks Sheriff's Lodge and went "behind the curtain".

>>87435649
n-not if I kill myself first!

>>87433292
that guy wins ugliest suit of the season

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>>87435551
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/05/twin-peaks-kyle-maclachlan-dale-cooper-hair
>In the early stages of getting the revival together, MacLachlan told Entertainment Weekly that he asked Twin Peaks creator David Lynch if he could wear black-colored contacts—a trick he’d seen before and wanted to replicate “to make it feel like there was an entity there, behind the eyes.”

Maybe that's why the eyes are lighter once BOB's gone

>>87435669
WIIIILSSSONN!!!!!!!!

>>87435567
I think they cross timelines after the 430 miles, pretty clear that it's no longer dale and diane sitting in the car at the night scene.

>>87435685

Evil Coop looks cooler with the lighter zombie eyes imo

>>87435568
I dont think it's clear at all

Laura whispers into Coops ear who the real dreamer is

>>87435551
You can see them quite clearly in episode 17.

>>87435751
its not laura

Not sure I've ever seen a western show where an ending can be interpreted in so many ways that holds water

>>87435776
It's crazy how different he looks from the true Cooper and that final scene at the sheriffs department

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>>87435751
The real dreamer is you, the viewer.

Why was evil Cooper looking for Judy?

>>87435848
Because he didn't know who Philip Jeffries was talking about and wanted to find out.

>>87435848
Because he didn't want to go the waiting room.

>>87435848
because "baby wants to fuck"

No, but probably searching for his origin. He's all about garmonbozia and suffering, what better high than to destroy the negative force itself and become it for himself

>>87435358

He still introduces himself as Dale Cooper right up to the final scene

>>87435848
And why would he go to the White lodge to find her? Makes. No. Sense.

LYNCH FILMS RANKED

1. Lost Highway - 10/10
2. Mulholland Drive - 9/10
3.Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me - 9/10
4. Blue Velvet - 8/10
5. The Elephant Man - 8/10
6. The Straight Story - 8/10
7. Twin Peaks: The Return - 7/10
8. Inland Empire - 7/10
9. Wild at Heart - 6/10
10. Dune - 5/10

>>87435945
Because that's where she is

"It's in our house now"

Do you remember the banging and knocking during Part 3 when Cooper was leaving through the port?

>>87435942
yes, but he clearly was not Dale Cooper from when he left the red room the second time. Dale Cooper would not unnecessarily shoot someone and risk random civilians wellbeing by putting guns in a deep fat fryer. he also wouldn't be so cold and insensitive towards Diane.

>>87435848
BOB misses his mommy.

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>>87433352
Objectively correct ratings here

>>87435973
Switch Wild at Heart and TP:TR and we're good. Give TP:TR a 5/10 while we're at it.

>>87435973
>no Erasehead
Great ranking you have there buddy.

>>87434387

did you start watching the series from episode 17?

good dougie was made from a similar seed used to make Diana tulpa. he's a tulpa.

doppelgangers are different and are not made from the seeds. follow the show's own lore.

In part 18 Cooper boils three guns although he only took two from the cowboys.
The Return has a shit ton of goofs.

>>87435997
That makes no sense. Why would he call Judy "It"? Judy was out in the void bangin on doors. And how would Boop know Judy was in the White lodge if he didn't even know who she was?

>>87435945

I was under the impression that we hadn't even seen the white lodge yet

>>87434242

Why did Boop risk his life and go into the sheriff's station? Twin Peaks is a pretty small place, he couldve just walked to the palmer house from the station's parking lot.

>>87435973
You left out Eraserhead and if you're ranking the Return you should atleast rank his short films too.

>>87436079
I remember him taking one gun from the first guy, then another from the other guy and then he told him to give him "his other gun too" which he did after being asked a couple of times

>>87436079

Ayyyyy it's all a dream

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>>87435848
ultimate power couple?

>>87436117
Andy saw him.

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#notmydianne

>>87436132
He didn't take one from the second guy, although he clearly was reaching for his gun.

>>87436132
nah, he simply asks the third cowboy to give him the gun, then picks it up
that's a fuck up alright

>>87435973
>eraserhead not #1

Was it Cooper or Booper or said "two birds one stone"

>>87435973
>The Elephant Man - 8/10
>Inland Empire - 7/10
Well now..

>>87436062
Where did this tulpa shit come from? I never heard that word in the show, it seems to just come from reddit.

>>87436079
>>87436132

Yes, it's a goof.

>Coop shoves Cowboy#1's gun on the table; kicks cowboy in the balls.

>Coop pulls his own gun from his holster and shoots Cowboy#2's foot as he is reaching for his own gun from back of pants. C#2's gun drops to floor

>Coaxes Cowbay#3 to drop gun on floor

>Coop only picks up C#1 & C#3's guns. Clearly only has 2 cowboy guns (plus his own gun pointed at the ready)

>C#2's gun rematerializes on counter next to deep fryer before he drops them in

So what was the ultimate reason why Donna was never in the return?

>>87436256
>I never heard that word in the show
Then you weren't watching

Is it worth it reading TSHoTP?

So what's with all the details in Frost's book that conflicted with seasons 1-2? He said it would make sense after watching the new season.

>>87436256
Time to actually watch the show instead of shitposting on /pol/.

>>87436236
It was after Briggs disappeared so it would be Booper.

>>87436256
are you baiting, mate?
Albert and Tammy talked about it, few episodes later they shot Diane and Tammy said "wow, that was a real tulpa" in the stupidest way possible

>>87436256

Tammy expositions something along the lines of “Wow, that was a real tulpa!”after the freshly-shot faux Diane flashes into the ether.

>Verified—TP

>>87436271
Mark Frost is an idiot.

>>87436278
>>87436299
>listening to anything Tammy has to say.

>>87436271
Alternate universes.

>>87436316

Honestly—when she isn't walking away from the camera—I just like watching her mouth move.

>>87436259
One Donna is unrecognizable and the other declined. Much like David Bowie, Michael Ontkean, and MJA, Moira had the sense to avoid this $80 million disaster.

>>87436256
They retconned doppelgangers into tulpas in one of the recent episodes.

Why? Because doppelganger is just an evil twin while tulpa is a thought made real which goes hand in hand with JUST A DREAM BRO ass pull.

>>87436337
Tammy's voice feels really weird in the show, like she's in a completely different place when she's talking

>>87436256
Tulpas are an /x/ meme
Frosty probably roleplays there

>>87436349
>Much like David Bowie
He would've loved to be in it anon, don't be silly.

has anyone read Cooper autobiography or listened to his tapes?

>>87436373

We are just witnessing Tammy logging everything we watched into her bedside dream journal. Tammy Preston was the dreamer all along. No wonder she can't stand properly. Have you ever tried to stand upright in a dream?
F R O S T E D

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>reddit

>>87436365
There are both tulpa's and doppelgangers.

>>87436373
That's because she sucks at acting. Literally and figuratively.

>>87436332
But the book talks about Laura's death and Cooper disappearing. Did that stuff still happen in the alternate world? Which world is the book supposed to be from?

i like the theory that cooper entered our world.

>>87436417
What a mess, literally Kojimbo of TV.

so was the fact that `cooper` sometimes didnt have his fbi pin on just a continuity error?

>>87436445
yea like that simpsons episode xd

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>>87436445
so it was basically this?

>>87436395
He said no, though. I know he was running out of sand, but he worked until the end and his scenes would've just taken a day.

>>87435848
My interpretation is that he probably wanted to kill her. When evil Coop meets Jeffries, he seems to see Judy as a threat which would make sense since she was potentially BOB's creator.

>>87436491
well the actress was the actual owner of the palmer house.

>>87436472
Rule of thumb with Lynch: everything is intentional.

the diane we see in the sheriffs station is the diane that left with cooper in ep 18. 17 happens after 18 for cooper. diane as well, hence no superimposition of coopers face or put another way no inevitability within a stable paradox. he knows why one punch lad is there.
the whole point of the world at the end is to show twin peaks compared to our mundane evil world, and show that the catalyst of the show was laura. is cooper lost in time and space? no he eventually leaves the lodge.

>>87435973
Lost Highway is automatically 8/10 at best just for having Rammstein

>>87436506
Still acted though. And went by a different name.

>>87436493
IIRC he spoke of his experience filming FWWM negatively, like it was just him sitting around for three days and he had no clue what was going on.

>>87436508
nice slice of headcanon

upboated

>>87436445
would have lost my shit if the answer to Cooper's "What's your name" was "Sheryl Lee" and the ending scream was Sheryl remembering her time spent in Lynch's sex dungeon

>>87436506
She played a lodge spirit. That theory doesn't work unless she is a lodge spirit irl.

someone posting the pic comparing the bug's face to jumping man's

>>87436507
No, a number of things he's done has just been worked in on the fly.
When an idea hits he just runs with it.

>>87436493
>He said no, though
You have some sauce on that?

>>87436531
this, shit soundtrack ruins the mood of the movie, should've stuck with Badalamenti and Bowie

>>87436416

That's totally fair desu. There are more characters in part 17 and more stuff happens. We find out what Judy is. We resolve the Bob and Doppelcoop storyline and we save Laura from the original series timeline.

>>87436493
Even if he did love doing TP and want to do it again, he would've said no. The whole point of Blackstar was that it was his last work/performance. It wouldn't have made sense for him to be in some TV show that came out 2 years after blackstar, even a great show

>>87436601
That's bullshit though, he continued working after Blackstar because he had more time than he thought. There's some unreleased stuff from between Blackstar and his death.

Reminder that the fireman is called that because fireman were the ones who kept the fire going in steam vessels. Hence all the steam boilers you see with pressure gauges on them. Hes just keeping the "fire" going. All those boilers generating electricity, probably had complete control over the other spirits until we came along and built spirit highways of electric lines all over our world.

>>87436648
Those were recorded at the same time as blackstar, most people record a bunch of songs and decide the track listing afterwards, omitting certain tracks.

Are we sure the experiment/mother is judy and not just one of judy's other cronies/babies? Idk

seems weird/petty for this powerful, abstract negative force to randomly murder 2 people by scratching their faces up

>>87436707
Despite his illness, “he didn’t think he was going to die, and in fact he thought he had maybe found a new muse with this album. Throughout the sessions his energy was spectacular… and he did intend to make another album after Blackstar.”

>>87436648
no, it's not bullshit. those were recorded concurrently.

>>87436707
this is correct

>>87436395
>>87436544
>>87436601
>>87436648
>>87436766

“Goaz says David Bowie, who had a small role in the 1992 film spinoff Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me, was set to return to make a cameo, but it didn’t happen before the musician’s death this year.”

>dallasnews com/arts/arts/2016/05/11/dallas-actor-returns-to-twin-peaks

I know, I know… believing anything Andy says.

>>87435154
I SAVED YOU A BULLET

>>87436766
I've seen that quote, but listening to Blackstar I still think it's very clear that he did think he was going to die.

ALSO regardless of what he thought, he knew he was extremely sick, and he wanted to channel all his energy into his music, not some random TV show he didn't realy care about. I mean he was only in FWWM for 5 minutes, it's not like it was the role of a lifetime. It's entirely possible that twin peaks just honestly wasn't that important to him, given the amount of time he had left

>>87436702
It's also worth remembering that Hawk specifically said that fire is not inherently evil when he was going over the map in the station.

>>87436757
Well maybe the box forced it to show up and it just REEE'd at whoever happened to be around.

>>87436601

it's a shame too because Blackstar fucking sucks

>>87436702

Love it, anon. Thanks.

>>87436829

twin peaks was more important than making his shitty blackstar faggot album which sucked

miguel ferrer and catherine coulson showed up to work whilst dying of cancer, why couldn't bowie? because he's a self righteous narcissist rockstar piece of shit

>that scene of hawk walking towards the black lodge entrance in episode 2 that is never addressed again
>hawk recognizing the judy/mother symbol on the map

sounds like gordon should've brought hawk into the loop on all this shit

>>87435629
no slowed down moonlight sonata :(
no cutie au revoir simone live version of their song :(

>>87436829
Well yeah obviously he was going to die.
>random TV show he didn't realy care about
sure, I guess you knew Bowie personally huh? Bowie has commented on that he loved working with Lynch though.

How can you people claim FWWM is a good movie? The first 40 min with the 2 detectives and the scenes in the FBI HQ had literally nothing to do with the rest of the movie that took part in Twin Peaks? Incoherent drivel that you claim to be pleb filter? Well have you considered that these so called plebs just want a consistent movie that makes sense?

Post Coop's face superimposed over End of Evangelion.

>>87436946

the first part is the best part

>>87436915
>Cooper... Cooper... two Coopers.
>This page from Laura's diary indicates there's two Coopers.
>WHAT!? TWO COOPERS????
No, Hawk is legitimately retarded

>>87436863
having an opinion that bad is probably damaging your stomach lining. you should see a gastrointerologist before things get bad

>>87436919
There's 2 soundtracks, anon.

https://www.amazon.com/Twin-Peaks-Music-Limited-Event/dp/B071FBTJJ6/ref=sr_1_1?s=dmusic&ie=UTF8&qid=1504790331&sr=1-1-mp3-albums-bar-strip-0&keywords=twin+peaks+soundtrack

>>87436842
I think when we dropped the bomb the fireman lost control of the fire, his steam kettle with the gauge started to alarm and he created Laura to try and contain it. A balancing act.

>>87436938
i meant compared to his music

>>87436946
Remember that you're talking to people who like the return, where nothing that happens from episode 4-16 (12 HOURS) matters at ALL

so your complaint that the first 40 minutes doesn't really matter is irrelevant

the murder of theresa banks does function to show how blurred the line between Leland and BOB has become though

What exactly did people like so much about Part 8? Is it all because of the Got a light meme?

>>87436946
At this point it's just memes, they don't have to make sense. First half is literally Lynch memespouting.

>>87436966
still no slowed down moonlight sonata :(
(but thx for ARS, etc.)

>>87437022
It was 2001 for today's hipsters.

>>87436913
>twin peaks was more important than making his shitty blackstar faggot album which sucked
Not to him, nerd

Bowie had other shit to do. Ferrer and Coulson had a shit career and no fucking career, respectively. They had literally nothing else to do because Ferrer only had shitty bit roles on cop shows to ditch, and coulson failed in hollywood

you salty-ass bitch

>>87436946
>Incoherent drivel that you claim to be pleb filter? Well have you considered that these so called plebs just want a consistent movie that makes sense?
What are you doing in this general?

Part 8 still makes me mad

how the fuck can anybody like it

>>87437105
Is liking it a contrarian opinion?
/tpg/ will like it.

>>87437061

david bowie was a talentless hack and now he's a talentless corpse

>>87437128
this is not ok

>>87436913
>david stop dying of cancer and show up for anon's fav tv show you pussy

fuck off

So Sarah is possessed by/connected to Jumping Man, this is shown by the bug (with a face like JM's) and their faces blending in that shot at the convenience store.

But Jumping Man isn't Judy, just another lodge spirit. But if Sarah Palmer isn't Judy, why do all roads lead to the Palmer house?