Did Arthur Leigh Allen do it?

No

DNA and handwriting evidence don't match and he doesn't match the physical description.

Gaikowski, Ross Sullivan, Lawrence Kane are more likely IMO

Yes for some of the murders, a copycat did the rest

In the movie, yes.

In real life, no.

>>87382693
>>87383057
It's kind of disturbing how heavily they insinuate at the end of the film that he did the killings, without
actually proving it.

>>87383206
Your mistake was assuming that Zodiac (and the novel) were non-fiction. They were written and directed as fictional works.

Think about that scene with the creepy guy in the basement who was implied to have been involved with the murders. The guy had literally nothing to do with anything, but it was just a cool scene for dramatic tension.

I think David Fincher puts forth the theory that Paul Avery (played by RDJ), the reporter for the San Francisco Chronicle that covered the brutal slayings, was actually the killer.
There are many instances in where Robert Downy Jr. acts very suspicious and says some strangely incriminating statements such as the following:

At one point Detective Tosci tells him he won't give him any more information and Avery Says "Come on, it's me!" As In, "Come on, you can trust me because you know me." but the direct way he says it to me implies it has a double meaning.

Fincher also connects the Zodiac with Avery on many instances.

Paul Avery uses the word "Looming", the same word some police officers used to describe the Zodiac killer's demeanor. This might be a wink to the audience on how the Zodiac walks in a looming way and Paul Avery uses the "L" word as he calls it on one occasion.

Also, Paul Avery is the only person in the movie, other than the Zodiac Killer to shoot a gun at any moment (at the gun range). We can see that when he shoots at the gun range he is not a very good shot. I think Fincher emphasizes this by focusing on the bullet hole to the far right of the target. The Zodiac was also a lousy shot, leaving some victims alive. Avery is seen as a dark ominous shadow when he shoots the target.

He is also constantly trying to throw Robert Graysmith's investigation (Jake Gyllenhaal) off track. He worries how he knows so much and asks him "How did you know he wouldn't say his name." when they get the first cypher.

Avery also speaks about "writing" his story and not typing it. His boss tells him "It's not done til' you type it." So Fincher lets us know he has an affinity for writing by hand, just like Z.

>>87383418
Avery's final appearance on his boat house is the most sinister. He gives almost a villain-esque monologue to Graysmith that honestly gives me the creeps. Graysmith visits him after years of not speaking and Avery, in an angry drunken diatribe says the following:

"Do you know more people die in the East Bay commute every three months than that idiot ever killed? He offed a few citizens, wrote a few letters, then faded into footnote... Not that I haven't been sitting here idly, waiting for you to drop by and reinvigorate my sense of purpose. "

It sent chills up my spine when I saw it.

I know some of these details might seem irrelevant, but given the attention to detail Fincher is known for and the way he likes to tease the audience (Fight Club), we can infer he gives his true opinions between the lines.

Do YOU remember any moments where Avery acts suspicious, or says something that if taken out of context can seem incriminating?

P.S. At one point Toschi is asked by an Informant "Have you ever thought Paul Avery might be the Zodiac?" and he replies jokingly, "Frequently."

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>That's him. that's the man who shot me. YOU WILL CALL HIIIIIIMMMMMMMMM

>>87383397
The book is described as non-fiction, though. The police assisted the author.

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>>87383206

Because it's a movie. Maybe if this was a documentary you'd have a point, but "based on..." movies will always bend the truth and be better off for it, because real life is fairly boring.

>>87383206
it's based on a book which is from the perspective of someone who believes allen did it.

Jake made me want to believe.

>>87383886
not to mention they spend most of the movie calling that guy (graysmith) a retard.

>>87382447
I listened to the audio book during a trip and for the life of me couldn't keep all the names straight. In the book Graysmith went into some of the alternate theories a bit more but the movie mostly just focused on what he believed to be the best suspect.

>>87383418
>We can see that when he shoots at the gun range he is not a very good shot. I think Fincher emphasizes this by focusing on the bullet hole to the far right of the target. The Zodiac was also a lousy shot, leaving some victims alive.
It's been a while since I watched it, but didn't he only just recently get a gun at that point? He's a reporter, of course he won't be a good shot. And I think Zodiac was just not very good at shooting/stabbing people in the right places all the time. Apparently he was also generally more focused on killing the women, so he wouldn't do as well with the men.

>>87382693
isn't handwritting now not used in investigations?

Memories of Murder is better.

>>87385942
I'll check it out, thanks.

>>87382447
IRL probably not. I think this movie gives him a really unfair and one sided depiction.

>>87383418
>At one point Detective Tosci tells him he won't give him any more information and Avery Says "Come on, it's me!" As In, "Come on, you can trust me because you know me." but the direct way he says it to me implies it has a double meaning.

You have autism, go see the doctor.

>>87382447
I think the idea of the film is that it could have been a couple of guys, copycats or whatever, or that they were all potential killers or just fucking creeps...but that they won't find out, cause maybe they're so focused on getting "the one" that they give him too much power, it becomes like a sort of god killer or something.

>>87387462
also because of different police departments not communicating well. this shit couldn't happen today

>>87387593
Seems like there are less serial killers nowadays... that'd be something to wonder about in a film.

>>87383397
>for dramatic tension

More to showcase how Jake's paranoia about the investigation was getting out of control and making him see connections that weren't entirely there.

>>87382447
no, unequivocally

>>87382447
It was clearly RDJ

>>87382447
No, he was busy inventing McDonalds

I really wish we had a crime board.

>>87383206
The movie is based on a book written by Robert Graysmith who was convinced Allen was the Zodiac, even though the evidence didn't support it. He was obsessed.

>>87387914
Maybe Graysmith is the zodiac.

Post the blowjob scene

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>>87387882

>>87387652
I think it's more that serial killings get less play time on the news, now. Could be due to some law or maybe trying not to disrupt status quo. Home town had a serial killer earlier this year, only heard one story about it. Not sure they ever got caught.

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>>87383484

>>87388089
Because the news is all about sensationalism these days. They can't politicize anonymous serial killers without a face to demonize.

>>87383418
>>87383474
>was actually the killer.

The idea finchner is actually putting forth is the idea the only thing that connected any of the cases was the media coverage. Each was perpetrated by a different person and avery used his access through toschi to manipulate evidence and generate connections.

>>87388089
Has to do with how law enforcement completely and totally refuses to give any information on such things after so many instances where getting the media involved just turned everything into a circus that distracted from the actual casework AND encouraged people to become serial killers for the media exposure.

>>87388224
Interesting. I need to rewatch it.

>>87387652
DNA

No one knows. There's no closure. It's very bad writing.

>>87388697
What?

>>87388775
It's easier to get caught nowadays.

>>87388775
There's nothing to wonder about. DNA will identify any serial killer.

>>87382447
No but he knew who did.

>>87388914
>>87388943
Easier, yes. But studying DNA can still take a while.

>>87383484
Fuck

>>87388969
Irrelevant if the results are certain.

>>87388943
that's if there is any DNA at the scene

>>87389145
Yeah, how hard is it to actually stop any spread of DNA? with all the little hairs on the body I assume you would have to go autist mode and wear a full body suit, but even then there's a chance of fucking up while putting it on

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the DNA taken from the saliva on envelopes that the Zodiac killer sent? And wasn't Arthur Leigh Allen allergic to the glue on envelopes and he needed others to lick it for him? Seems like the DNA wouldn't be enough to exonerate Leigh Allen in this case.

>>87389145
its just about impossible for there to not be DNA at the scene.

You'll shed hair, skin cells, saliva, sweat, etc, etc, endlessly. The only semi-reliably way is to commit a crime in an area where there is already so much DNA that'll be impossible to find yours.

>>87389087
Serial killers don't kill because they think they won't get caught. They kill because they're mentally unstable and enjoy it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY_tqjdnDVk
Just watched this. He might not have been the real Zodiac, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's killed at least one person.

>>87389314
You're confusing a thrill killer with a serial killer.

At this point it seems you lack sufficient knowledge of this subject for meaningful discourse.

>>87389352
Go watch the movie again and pay special attention to the people who initially report leigh as the zodiac.

>>87389403
I think it was his friend in that video, Ron Chaney. What are you trying to say? That it was him?

>>87389372
You're confusing a chill killer with a thrill killer

>>87389592
At this point I'm saying you're retarded.

>>87389592
*Donald Chaney.

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>>87389623
You're confusing a murder death joy killer with a murder death kill killer.

>>87389679
Why? It was Donald Cheney who reported him, right? What are you saying?

I particularly enjoyed the meta commentary about I guess technology improving the ability of police. Zodiac would be impossible to do in 2017