What am I missing?

>>87085061 see >>87073884
You'll find many like minded individuals there, brother.

>>87085190
Thanks for the tip, but likeminded individuals may not have the answer I'm looking for. I'm asking what I'm missing, why is it so terrible in the eyes of critics and many of you, while I'm watching it and see a good movie? What is your opinion on this matter? It's weird.

I agree its a good movie, I enjoyed it a lot. If I am to guess, it's the pacing throwing people off

>>87085230
they pretty much answer all your question in there if you bothered to look

Too highbrow for normies.
Too comic-booky for critics.

>>87085322
Then I guess I will look

>>87085061
Its fucking wank, theyre fighting & hate each other, then all of a sudden because of a name they suddenly are best mates. Its shyte

>>87085370
You also described civil war just now, but surely there is more to it than this.

>>87085322
>>87085355
Seems like they are only discussing similarities with America's society.

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>>87085061
It has some good ideas about the way our culture engages with superheroes and whether ubermenschen can be bound to the laws of mankind it's just that anything intelligent the movie has to say is bogged down on an unfocused and messy script that wastes so much time on useless subplots and spends way too much time trying to set up other films that it loses its own ideas in the process. Wonder Woman didn't need to be in the movie at all, and Lois Lane gets way too much screen time. The Director's Cut doesn't solve anything, it just adds another 30 minutes of more filler plot.

>>87085444
the problem with "MARTHA" is that the delivery is objectively clumsy and it inspires no change in Batman. He learns that Superman is fighting to save his mother, that makes Batman equate himself with the man who killed his mom, realizes he's turning into what he hates most, I get it. But immediately after sparing Superman he immediately goes and kills like 20 more people, and Superman doesn't care, even though their entire conflict started because Superman was trying to stop Batman from murdering people. They LITERALLY forgot all about their past conflicts and become friends because their moms are both named Martha.

At least in Civil War, the equivalent mother reveal serves to cause more conflict between Cap and Iron Man

>>87085578
I thought the Martha scene was clumsy too, but it only bothered me then and there, the rest of the movie was very nice overall, with some unfortunate scenes here and there. It's obviously not a GREAT movie or anything, I just have a hard time seeing how it's as bad as 27%. That's on the level of some really fucking ugly and bad movies.

>>87085578
What else was bad about it?

>>87085061
you're not missing anything. you just have some actual taste, unlike 99% of this board. good job, bub

I was waiting for it to get bad but really it's fine all the way through. It's "bad" in the sense that people would prefer a happier Superman we're everyone loves him.
I'd assume that's from people who don't read comics though.

>>87085727
Has to be bait.

>>87085061
BvS isn't bad for what it is, it's bad for what it so desperately wants it to be: a superhero movie transcending all other superhero movies, the logical conclusion to Nolan's nihilistic, the next step in the evolution of blockbuster cape kino. because it miserably fails at that. It's no masterpiece, it's not even a decent movie, it's an edgy autistic man child bashing two superhero figurines against each other while reciting his favorite entry level philosophy. Embarrassing movie, embarrassing fanbase.

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>>87085700
I'm high as fuck so if this comes off as rambling forgive me (dude weed lmao)

The movie just really doesn't know how to handle its core ideas or themes, or how its characters should be portrayed. The movie is inconsistent in its backstory for Batman - he's simultaneously a 20 year veteran who's done battle with all of his greatest supervillains and lost a Robin, but the police treat him like an urban legend and Superman has never heard of Batman before even though he's a journalist and Metropolis and Gotham are virtually right next to each other. It's like Snyder wanted to adapt imagery and themes from the Dark Knight Returns (even though he doesn't understand what that story was about) but he also had to awkwardly try to insert Batman into this universe.

Lex Luthor's entire plan is to discredit God to the people or have him destroyed by its strongest man, but for all of his grandstanding his plan boils down to "build monster to kill Superman" because they needed a big CGI dinosaur to fight instead of making the climax that Batman v. Superman fight, in a movie called "Batman v. Superman"

Seriously, I WISH Batman v Superman was good. They're my two favorite characters in all of comics. But it's a shit movie made by a hack director that was further ruined by executives rushing to set up a shared universe with no creative oversight.

>>87085578

>He learns that Superman is fighting to save his mother, that makes Batman equate himself with the man who killed his mom, realizes he's turning into what he hates most, I get it. But immediately after sparing Superman he immediately goes and kills like 20 more people, and Superman doesn't care, even though their entire conflict started because Superman was trying to stop Batman from murdering people. They LITERALLY forgot all about their past conflicts and become friends because their moms are both named Martha.

Batman only changed with Superman's death. He was still very much an asshole right after learning about Superman's mom, and Superman teamed-up with Batman out of necessity.

>>87086126
>he's simultaneously a 20 year veteran who's done battle with all of his greatest supervillains and lost a Robin, but the police treat him like an urban legend
What's inconsistent about this? Batman fights in the shadows and is a hero without being seen as a hero by the public, in fact he works so much in the shadows that he still has the urban legend myth to him. That's exactly how they wanted him to be, it's not a mistake and it does make sense to the character of Batman.

>and Superman has never heard of Batman before even though he's a journalist and Metropolis and Gotham are virtually right next to each other.
Superman is new to his profession, he is also new to being a superhero. His whole life has been about finding himself in a very small town named smallville, of course he doesn't know about urban legends in gotham, at this time he is JUST getting to know metropolis. This makes sense too. In fact, even tho nothing about batman was news worthy (anymore at least), he as a jounralist picked up on the existance of Batman very quick into his career, which is great.

>Lex Luthor's entire plan is to discredit God to the people or have him destroyed by its strongest man, but for all of his grandstanding his plan boils down to "build monster to kill Superman" because they needed a big CGI dinosaur to fight instead of making the climax that Batman v. Superman fight, in a movie called "Batman v. Superman"
I kinda agree with this one. I never liked this, even tho I was entertained by the action followed.

What else do you think doesn't work with this movie?

>>87086391
>he as a jounralist picked up on the existance of Batman very quick into his career, which is great.
Oh, but I guess he had lexes help to that.

>>87085937
Fuck off brainlet

>>87086126

>Lex Luthor's entire plan is to discredit God to the people or have him destroyed by its strongest man, but for all of his grandstanding his plan boils down to "build monster to kill Superman"

Lex never believed Batman would be able to kill Superman. He wanted Superman to kill Batman.

>>87085061
I quite like the extended but the theatrical was shit it was horribly paced/edited, no character had 2 scenes in a row and they were generally short with no good transitions

Extended fixed all that and added heaps of superman scenes that should have been in the theatrical

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>>87085578
>At least in Civil War, the equivalent mother reveal serves to cause more conflict between Cap and Iron Man
Is that why they end becoming best friends at the end of each movie?

>>87086892
It's much more believable that two guys who have been friends for nearly a decade would be willing to forgive each other than two strangers suddenly deciding they're friends because their moms are named Martha

>>87086637
He wanted Batman to kill Superman to prove man's superiority or for Superman to kill Batman to prove that God isn't all-powerful or all-good. Either way, he would have won.

>>87087004
>two guys who have been friends for nearly a decade
What?

>>87087111
Time passes slowly when you're watching shitty Marvel flicks.

>>87087004

>It's much more believable that two guys who have been friends for nearly a decade would be willing to forgive each other

Captain America and Iron Man are hardly friends. They hated each other in the first Avengers movies and by the end of it barely tolerated one another, and they fought against each other again in the Age of Ultron movie and by the end of it had barely made up.

That's why their friendship in Civil War felt flat to me. I just couldn't understand why Iron Man was so butthurt about Captain American siding with Bucky, his real and oldest friend, when he and Cap were at most comrades that tolerated one another.

>than two strangers suddenly deciding they're friends because their moms are named Martha

Superman and Batman weren't friends. They teamed up out of necessity. Batman only started to really respect Superman after his sacrifice. That's when his guilt over his actions hit full force.

>He wanted Batman to kill Superman to prove man's superiority

He really didn't.

>>87087111
>>87087162
You're right, for some reason I thought Avengers came out in 2008 when that's when Iron Man 1 did.

I'm a brainlet

>>87085061
The main issues i had with it was the pacing and editing, but after seeing it a few times more i can honesty say it was one of the best capeshits ive seen

>>87086109
>a superhero movie transcending all other superhero movies
It came close, a few minor changes and it would have

>>87085061
Go back to /r/movies

>>87086109
>BvS isn't bad for what it is
So what it IS isn't bad?
>it's bad for what it so desperately wants it to be
So what it wanted to be, but ISN'T, is bad?

In other words, it isn't a bad movie?

>>87088423
Err... yes i guess

>>87088719
CHECK FUCKING MATE, BvS needs an oscar now.

>>87085061
The story was shit. Noone's motivations made any sense except Superman's.
>Hurr durr but Luthor had his daddy complex and that perfectly explains why he thought it would make sense to create a human/kryptonian hybrid to kill Superman
Then, the whole payoff was shit. Batman stops fighting because Superman has a mother (as if that would change anything or be a big reveal). Then Superman dies but everybody already knows he comes back anyway so he just as well may have gone on vacation.

>>87088866

>Batman stops fighting because Superman has a mother (as if that would change anything or be a big reveal).

Dumb people will always complain about this.

>>87089022
>Alright, this dude has power beyond imagination and could be a threat to humanity
>I have to kill him so he never tries to conquer the planet!
>Oh he has a mother and she has the same name as mine. Better stop fighting then. Also he is my pal now and I have no problem with superheros that are just as powerful as him and turned their backs on humanity once already!
If Batman was supposed to be a complete maniac they captured that pretty well.

>>87089070

>Alright, this dude has power beyond imagination and could be a threat to humanity
>I have to kill him so he never tries to conquer the planet!

See, those were merely justifications. The real reason he wanted to die killing Superman is because he felt his life had amounted to nothing and all his sacrifices had been for naught. He hated himself for it and viewed Superman in the same light for the same reasons. He was pretty much trying to slay himself.

>Oh he has a mother and she has the same name as mine. Better stop fighting then. Also he is my pal now and I have no problem with superheros that are just as powerful as him and turned their backs on humanity once already!

It was not because of the name connection, but because of he got triggered and said trigger made him realize Superman was nothing like himself, Superman was a much better man. Batman started to see Superman the same way he saw his father while at the same time realizing he had become like Joe Chill.

>If Batman was supposed to be a complete maniac they captured that pretty well.

That was the point, yeah. Finally you're getting it.

>>87089070
>>87088866
and here i thought people "not getting bvs" was a meme

I never saw the original and enjoyed the movie when I finally saw it. I think it fell victim to its own hype. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't in tune with the eaaily enjoyed superheroes movies that have become the norm, and a lot of people probably found its symbolism and brooding tone to be pretentious.

Personally, I loved Eisenberg's performance and would love to see him play a villain again. However I also would have preferred a direct sequel to Man of Steel before trying to rush out a Justice League movie. Supes deserved his own shot at a trilogy, and Man of Steel laid a pretty strong foundation that BvS did away with.

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>>87085061
Welcome, brother. Now sit back and let the medicine do its work.

>>87089182
>See, those were merely justifications. The real reason he wanted to die killing Superman is because he felt his life had amounted to nothing and all his sacrifices had been for naught. He hated himself for it and viewed Superman in the same light for the same reasons. He was pretty much trying to slay himself.

it's shocking to me that people didn't get this. people have become so fucking cinematically illiterate

>>87090023
I agree with this post. Always when people are poiting out "flaws" in the story, it's shit like this that they have overseen. LOL

>>87085578
Pleb

Because literal Disney chills..

>>87085339
exactely this

>>87085061
It's a movie that women will never understand

>>87085578

Batman spares Superman because he doesn't want to become a cold blooded murderer. But he's still in crazy PTSD mode. He hasn't had time to reconsider his whole position on people and his actions as a vigilante. He just knows that he's wrong about Superman. And then he has a chance to save Martha from criminals who want to murder her.

After Superman's sacrifice, he believes that people are good again. Inherently good, possible of being better.

Their conflict is one thing, but Superman went to Gotham that night to ask for Batman's help. That's what he was there for. Not to stop Batman from anything. Lex had Martha and Superman needed Batman's help. That's what he was there for. So when Batman stops fighting and agrees to help, that's what matters to him.

And you can't really say they "forgot" everything. They didn't really have time to work out their differences. Batman realizes he's wrong, Superman trusts him to save his mother because he needs to, and then Superman dies.

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>>87085061
It might very well be the greatest pleb filter of our times

>>87085061
It's a movie that knows what it wants to say about Batman and Superman but doesn't really know how to go about it. For Superman, I get that the guy is meant to be portrayed as this godlike figure who is feared and loved by humanity, I don't get that until the very end with Lex's rant about god and the super obvious allusions to christianity, like fuck, it's like snyder couldn't illustrate his point without pandering to the worst of pseudo intellectuals.

then for bats, he's just sort of all over the place as a character, his motives for killing superman feel very forced, his whole character flaw and arc of 'learning to have faith in humanity again' is very muddled and once again not something that's really evident until the third act, so on. So you have these two monoliths with these vague themes they're meant to represent along with a story almost solely driven by the absolute worst incarnation of lex luthor I've ever seen (and that retarded cripple and senator subplot), and it overall comes out to be a mess. this isn't even bringing up the fact that lois, wonder woman, albert, and many other characters are more set pieces than anything for a grand majority of the film, or the atrocity that is the actual fight, etc.

>>87085339
Someone else fucking understands me wtf maybe i dont kill myself yet.

>>87091640

They only seem vague because you're dumb as fuck. Batman arc couldn't be more straight, The same for Superman for an extent, but i can excuse his case because the theatrical release cut his scenes.

>>87091640
>I get that the guy is meant to be portrayed as this godlike figure who is feared and loved by humanity,
WRONG!

They are portraying the full implications of a Superman presence, including those that would worship and hate him as a God. That's why the film only portrays him as such a figure as a perception of those seeing him.

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>>87091640
The point is that Superman isn't a god, just a man who looks god-like by virtue of what he can do. The imagery, both Christian and otherwise, is to indicate how many people are looking at him and starting to see a god instead of a hero.

These movies have a recurring motif concerning the perils of false gods, and it starts all the way back in Man of Steel's earliest scenes.

>>87091757
Yes, the Batman arc couldn't be more straight, but they only barely alluded to it until near the end of the film. Up until then Bats is researching Supes and dicking around with Albert and doing really nothing

>>87091835
That's nice, don't see how it proves the film executed that element well though

>>87091851
That's more or less what I said. The thing is that the Christianity imagery (which is done in so many fucking flicks and joints to show how 'deep' the writer's trying to be) feels so forced, the lex luthor speech sealed my hatred for what they were trying to do. I get what the film was trying to say, but it didn't bother really discussing it up until then, and did so by forcing it down the viewer's throat. for what it's worth I think MoS was a lot better at handling it

>>87091835
How does any of that ultimately matter?

>>87092062
>say something ignorant
>say why it's false
>that's nice
Can you tell me how much of your life you spend in BvS threads doing this tiresome bullshit act?

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>>87092118
Perception of Superman. Perception of good. Perception of evil. Perception of God.

That's what the film is about. Superman becoming the vessel of our hopes and nightmares.

>>87091851
With any other movie, plagiarizing Renaissance art would be a sign of hackery.

Only here is it praised.

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>>87091835

Not to mention that the whole issue with Superman in the movie is that he can't escape becoming a political figure. It's much more that than anything else. Every action he takes becomes a political nightmare. Even his inaction is turned into a political controversy.

That's also what Lex speech was all about. People confuse Lex use of mythology and theology simply thinking that he's angry at Superman for being godlike, when in truth Lex is trying to point out that Superman can't escape being turned into a political weapon, the reason for wish the tribe fight one another. Superman can't escape taking a side with every action. Even the act of saving Lois is a sign of how Superman is selfish and is taking his very OWN side. That's why Superman can't be all-good nor all-powerful. Because the moment he chooses to save someone in Metropolis, he's also deciding to let others die all over the world at that very moment. He's picking a side.

That's the thing Superman doesn't know how to deal. He doesn't know how to handle being a public and political figure. He doesn't know how to feel about people using him that way. The unintended consequences of his existence in that spectrum.

Like Lex say: power can't be innocent, by its very nature.

So it's not about just Superman being godlike or Christ-like. That's a very simplistic and dumbed down way to see things.

>>87092176
You didn't even know that art piece existed until we told you. Stop pretending you know art. Snyder does. He graduated in art studies. You don't know shit but to leak butthurt in every BvS thread with your gay act.

>>87092209
>HURF U DIDN NOES DA SYSTEN CHAPELS EXISTED TILL UR TOLD

wow

>>87092196

BvS is much more about politics than it is about anything else. Once you start to see the movie that way things become much more clearer.

>>87092173
>Superman becoming the vessel of our hopes and nightmares.

How is that functionally different than:

>godlike figure who is feared and loved by humanity

>>87085061
long story short: people where trained at the time that all comic book movies had to be like marvel movies. TDK trilogy had been out of theaters for a while and with 3+ marvel movies a year, peoples expectations where set.

Sorta how cartoons use to be prime time family sit down, sitcom heavily sponsored levels of shit in the 60's, 70's and early 80's (scooby doo, flintstones, jetsons, etc) and most people now only remember them as those things kids watch in the early mornings or on sat (which sat morning cartoons hasnt been a thing for almost 5 years).

conditioning does a lot of bad shit.
Mad max 1 gets a lot of shit because people are conditioned to see mad max = 2

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Marvel gives critics tap water and critics compliment the fine taste

Snyder gives them the finest wines and they look at each other in disgust and criticize the year it was made in.

>>87092173
I mean to superman. How does any of that matter? Ultimately, what do the perceptions of the ants mean to him? Why bother with this half-assed exploration of what would amount to little more than white noise due to the sheer volume of different opinions/perceptions? Why focus on the people who would start flailing about about "HE AM GAWD!!"

>>87092295
Because you narrow it down to Godhood. His perception is more than just that. He's a political figure, a weapon to be tamed for national security, a savior, a destroyer, a gift of the heavens. The Superman perception reflects the world that perceives him.

>>87092277
The political interpretations of BvS say more about the people interpreting the movie that way than the movie.

I'm one who actually liked this movie, and loved MOS. But I must admit that Lex was done really bad. It's the writer's fault, why did they make Lex a clown? Fuck them.

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>>87092334
It matter because it feels more geniune. It matters because it's how filmmakers sell us that these superheroes exist in a world that I can take seriously.

Did anyone in Marvel give two shits about Asguardians existing? Or aliens of any kind? No not really. That world exists without consequences or reactions. It exists only as a vehicle to the razor-thin plot that is there to drive up hype for the long-teased Thanos appearance.

One story is giving you a world, the other is giving a simple plot of A to B with nothing in-between and where B is really more of A and where you're expected to go watch the sequel for the actual B.

>>87092428
this is childish

>>87092371
One, I'M not narrowing it down to anything. I'm just someone who likes watching BvS threads because they're dumb.
Two, God, and religion in general, is just a vessel for hopes and fears.
Three, you're not really saying anything when you keep reiterating nouns that sound important. Every single character ever sees other characters as different things. Trying to pin down such an implicit and basic thing as some important theme for the movie, as though it somehow elevates it, is retarded.

People see Batman as a hero. A vigilante. A killer. A bored rich boy. A scared little boy.

It's an implicit thing in just about every story. The fact that BvS fans love to talk circles around hamfisted symbolism Snyder strings together in the clumsiest fashion possible is really a great sign that the movie is actually as bad as everyone says.

>>87092428
He's not a clown. What you're seeing is person on the verge of having a nervous breakdown upon realizing that he's an ant in an ocean of Gods. This is why his speech at the library is so awkward. He's trying really hard to sell himself as this super-person who does charity and is really smart but at the same time he can never shake the feeling that he is so little. He is so little compared to all that greatness in the universe he sees through the ship.

His hate towards Superman is his frustration of being sidelined so hard by a being so much more powerful and so much more good than himself. While Joker is driven on chaos, Lex is driven on ego.

>>87085061
>Why does it have 27% on Rotten Tomatoes?
The Mouse money and brainwashed normies

>>87092428
>Fuck them.

Why? Because not muh Lex? What's wrong with this Lex in isolation?

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Superman in BvS is much more simply a figure of power than whatever bullshit you might think. The movie isn't about Superman playing Jesus Christ or acting as a stand-in for God. Sure, there's a bit of Christ figure in the movie, but that's mostly to address the fact that some people view him in a religious way. The real role of Superman in the movie is of a figure of great power and how humanity as a whole deal with power. Some grow greedy and want it for themselves, others fear it and want to destroy it, and a most just worship it in awe.

That's all that Superman represents in the film: a being of power. Superman whole arc is him dealing with this. It's like he had become a major celebrity/politician over night and everything he say or do now is blown out of proportion sparking constant sensationalist news and a few wars. Superman doesn't know how to deal with that. He just wants to keep helping people, but things aren't as simple anymore. That's also why you have his subplot with Lois where he's pretty much using her as a means to hide from the world because being with her is the only time he feels comfortable anymore and Lois is being conflicted about maybe their Clark over-reliance on her maybe being detrimental to his role as Superman.

If you don't believe me that the movie is mostly about the nature of power, check the ultimate edition trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AO19XY2rqc

>>87092196
Damn good post. I agree that the film is largely about Superman's self-deception of what he is becoming in the eyes of others. He was raised a farmer boy in Kansas. He wants to save people and try to make the world a better place. But suddenly he has to come to terms with consequences far beyond his control, that he will be held accountable for. In many ways Lex is actively working to debunk Superman because he wants to render him powerless by using the dilemma of being Superman.

Being good is easy. Once you know what good is.

>>87092606
>hat's all that Superman represents in the film: a being of power.

No, that's wrong. It's about the coupling of superhuman capability with human frailty. It's a much more personal arc than how you describe it.

>>87092062
>I get what the film was trying to say, but it didn't bother really discussing it up until then, and did so by forcing it down the viewer's throat.

They'd been hinting at these things for two films. Pa Kent talked about it and so did Perry White. The world was never going to be ready for a Superman, but at least Clark could be allowed the time and space he needed to be grounded, mature, and "human" enough to reject the world's reaction.

>>87092305
Imagine a spectrum ranging from silly to serious. Batman '66 and the shumacher batmans being on the silly end, TDK and BB being near the serious end, and most marvel movies being near the middle, with a huge jump towards silly after disney started writing the scripts.

The goal behind the DCEU was to take whatever made the nolan trilogy successful and turn it into an endless franchise. But nolan dropped out, so they got a bargain bin replacement who'd just be happy for the work and willing to do literally anything hes told.

So the intent was to be near or beyond the nolanverse level of seriousness. But despite all their attempts at being thematically complex and realistic, the movies are ultimately just as silly as batman '66. Complete with mustache twirling villains lacking any self-awareness, characters with huge amounts of character development so as to establish motivations of "I H8 U SUPERMAN!" As it really doesn't matter how much structure is used to build up to "AH H8 U SUPERMAN!" its comic book level motivation.

>>87092537
Mouse money is largely to blame, plus Snyder is a Chad and beta reviewers hate that

>>87092553
What's funny about Not Much fags is they fail to realize there will always be Superman films and cartoons and comics coming out. With that in mind how could you ever punish a film director doing something interesting that isn't 100 percent like Muh Racially Ambiguous Bruce Timm Lex straight out the gate

>>87092196
Excellent post, fellow DChad.

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>>87092676

>They'd been hinting at these things for two films. Pa Kent talked about it and so did Perry White. The world was never going to be ready for a Superman

>>87092616
I hope you kill yourself you phony

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>>87085339
I really cant tell if you're being sarcastic. I cant tell if anyone actually isnt being sarcastic on here when talking about this movie.
I liked the movie but am fully aware it has problems. Like being too melodramatic at times and poorly explaining certian things. But it it was like 70% good.

>>87092442
You're missing the point, possibly because you have no counter argument, and attempting to deflect by whining about marvel.

If you're going to try to create a realistic spectrum of how people would react to the existence of godlike individuals operating under their own agency in a realistic world, why focus on the people falling to their knees and going "AYAYAYAEEE HEYZEUS CHRISTO!" Why strip the godlike entities of all agency in favor of having them mope about how people think they're biblical figures?

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Would DCbros say this is the moment Superman learns "not to be perfect"? I think previously he was really hurt by the fact that his actions were being falsely portrayed as hurtful. He says he doesn't care what the media says but then you also see him visibly shook when the media keeps talking about what a reckless person he is.

Then he takes a meditative journey to the mountains where he can in calm and peace ponder on his life. Jonathan tells him that no matter what, you'll always do harm even if it's the last thing you want to do. Instead seek support in how those you love judge your actions. Let them guide you and support you.

Is that what you got from this? I do believe that after this, Superman comes back changed.

It has no cohesion. Just a bunch of scenes without a clear connection. The plot is trying to fit a trilogy's worth of story into one movie. Characters have inconsistent motivations. Superman goes from a villain to a martyr that everyone loved with zero arc. It thinks it's a smarter film then it actually is. The exploration of the hero myth and the deconstruction of the superhero is not new or interesting at all. The only way to be impressed by that concept is if you pretend you've never heard of it. Also, really stupid CGI-fest final battle, but that's every movie nowadays.

>>87092428
>Lex was done really bad
>Lex a clown
You do know that it's Lex's son Alexander Luthor, right?

>>87092749
>be superman
>care about rejection

The big problem with BvS and MoS is superman, by definition, is power fantasy. The movies failed to depower superman to a point where that fantasy could fall apart. The character itself is just extremely weak and prone to mopey bullshit for no good reason.

>>87092442
Marvel movies are feelgood movies basically. And I love them for it.
But I also want superhero movies that make me feel intrigued, like MOS did and BvS to some extent did. What I really want, more than any Marvel movie, is what DCU is giving us(but not all successfully imo). The theme is right, and the depth is much more satisfying than anything Marvel does. But I admit I would want them to do it a bit differently. Exactly how I can't really say. Better editing, some of the scenes are awkward, some of the lines too. I just think the style of Snyder is a bit off. The way he use CGI just looks wrong. The world, and its backgrounds look awfully fake and CGI-ish. The fight with doomsday was unnecessary, but it did entertain me. But again, it was too much of that same weird CGI. It's just too messy in some parts. MOS was extremely good imo, but I also had some issues with the final Zod fight, it had too much unnecessary effects. It feels like those two fights serves to squeese the last drop of the CGI budget more than to serve the story. I know that may not be the case, but it feels like it.

>>87092789
I already explained it to you but I was maybe too naive thinking a Marvel shiteater would comprehend the value of building believable worlds of consequences and reactions.

>>87092853
You do know that obscure comic book trivia has no bearing on the quality of a film, right?

>>87092851
All of this is factually false based on buzzwords meaning nothing. It is perfectly cohesive to anyone posessing IQ over 60. Maybe learn to self-criticize before criticizing?

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>>87092173
Something interesting I noticed on a repeat viewing is that we're also getting Clark's perceptions as well. He's focusing on the things he fears. We don't see the full reality until during the funeral. His sacrifice didn't magically change everyone's minds. The truth is that the overwhelming majority had always seen him for what he was - just a guy trying to do the right thing.

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>>87085061
>What am I missing?
A vicious Corporate smear campagin that extended to critics and social media.

4chan is no exception

>>87092835
My big problem with a realistic superman is why does he even bother to watch the news or inject himself into the daily planet? It's easily within his power to do more than the media can report upon. As it takes time to take fact and spin it into bullshit. The simple solution to the issues of BvS is, simply, to just say fuck it and flood out criticism with sufficient acts of altruism. Touch so many lives that the "SUPERMAN BAD" prattling from the television is completely irrelevant to most people.

>>87092853
What? Alexander Luthor is the name of the traditional character Lex Luthor in the comics.

>>87092903
Your lack of counter-argument is noted.

>>87092903
What about this is false? You can't just make a sweeping comment like that. It isn't cohesive at all with the inconsistency of the themes and the tone. So many laugh out loud moments that came just out of awful editing and shots that completely clashed.

>>87092976
they're trying to justify lex being such a giant faggot as being the result of him being "SON OF LEX" or some shit.

>>87092958
1. He's on the Daily Planet because he never wants to lose the human part of his life. So long as he's Clark Kent, he can get the honest perception of Superman and how the media is painting him. I think he wants to make the world a better place as a human being aswell. Why else would he get so emotional during his argument about integrity with White?

2. There is a shot in BvS where we see a massive wall of Superman's altruistic acts. It didn't seem to change much. No matter how good a person, there will always be those hating him. Maybe he was a bit naive on that starting out. Maybe he expected too much honesty from others.

>>87092869
No, you're just answering a question I didn't ask.

The movie focuses on one set of reactions and acts as if thats how all people would react. The internet has proven no two people ever react the same way.

>>87086426
Most normal people in the DC universe think the Batman's some sort of urban legend. I like how it appears that he doesn't even show up alongside the rest of the League in public, just to those in on his existence like Gordon. to everyone else, he's almost a spook story.

>>87093037
He wasn't the "son of lex", he is and he was the son of Lionel Luthor.

>>87093037

It's still less faggoty than slamming a character because it's not the same as other depictions of the character.

>>87092990
What about is inconsistent? What about is "awful editing"? You can't even formulate your opinions into proper arguments. All of you is false.

>>87093063
The problem with your argument (and something you seemed to have completely missed) is all superman hatred, in BvS, was generated by lex luthor.

Because lex luthor was behind literally everything that happened in the movie.

>>87093103
Exactly. The guy I answered didn't understand that, apparently.

>>87093067
>The movie focuses on one set of reactions and acts as if thats how all people would react.
Absolutely false. There are those that perceive him as evil. There are those that perceive him as incompetent. There are those that perceive him as god-like. There are those that perceive him as a fraud. His perception ranges from The Absolute Zero to boiling point.

>>87093109
The character is slammed because it is terrible. Not because of lack of faithfulness to the source.

If they had adapted 40 cakes lex the character would still be slammed.

>>87093128
How is that a problem?

>>87093128
Lex IS indeed manipulating people and events to backfire on Superman. He is adding fuel to a fire of a certain perception of Superman.

This isn't a problem of my argument (something you're too retarded to comprehend). This is the problem of a Superman presence creating natural enemies, some who would go to extreme lengths to destroy him.

>>87093160
>There are those that perceive him as evil.

Wrong, the only person in BvS with a perception of superman as evil is lex luthor, and he controls all media, so the media perceives him as evil.

its like you didn't actually watch the movie in between falling to your knees and praising the christo.

>>87085061
Why do you keep making this thread

>>87093213
>>87093192

see >>87092958

>>87093215
You can see protestors outside of the hearing. There are definitely those near violently opposed to Superman.

Maybe you didn't see it because you were too busy sucking that Marvel cock.

>>87093239
because DCEU marketing is built entirely around realigning public opinion of the last movie to put asses in seats for the next movie.

>>87087172
>He really didn't.

I think it's awesome that Lex was a realist about Bruce's chances. Lex Luthor - not a fanboy.

>>87093248
See
>>87093063

>>87093269
The last decade or so has proven most protestors are just mindlessly regurgitating whatever their corporate funding is feeding them.

And since lex luthor is the only entity with any agency in BvS, the protests were simply an extension of lex luthor.

>>87085061
It's meandering and tries to cover waay too much shit. Lex Luthor sucked and Supes death felt forced.

>>87093110
You ask me a question and then answer it. Then you ignore my questions and act all high and mighty. You have put forth literally nothing. I'll give you an example though, since I actually respond with substance.

Just start with the opening scene. You have Bruce watching the destruction of the city. Right off the bat, it's shot like a fucking pretty car commercial. That doesn't convey any sense of danger or tragedy whatsoever. Just a director that's too up his own ass to know how to tell a basic story. Then you have Bruce calling his buddy to evacuate and you have the hilarious cut to the entire office building just standing there as they are seconds away from being killed. The shitty hack job editing makes this seem like part of the story, as if they were just sitting there waiting for "the boss" to tell them when if was okay to leave even though they were right there.

There's so many bullshit moments in this movie that come about from just basic incompetent filmmaking.

>>87092958
He was raised by humans.

>>87085061
It's good until everything after "WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?" Then it becomes terribly paced and feels rushed. The final battle was a total shitshow, like why pack all those action scenes one after another to finish the movie?

The extended cut helps, but it still needed like 30 more minutes to feel more complete.

>>87093304
The original motivation for insertion into the daily planet was to get information on bad shit happening in the world for superman to respond to. This is laughable in a modern world. The justification for it in BvS is weak, at best, as the character is weakly written to be weak.

>>87093344
>Supes death felt forced.
How? He was the only one strong enough, and he did it to safe Earth from absolute diaster. A sacrifice.

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>>87085061
BvS takes five steps further than its contemporaries. It is smarter in so many ways. And also better filmed.

>>87093350
Nerdwriter on YT actually has a good critique of the movie. Basically it's focused on "epic" shots recreated from the comics and no substance at all.

>>87093390
I don't know what movie you watched, but WW had more effect on doomsday than superman. She'd have easily defeated him with the spear.

>>87093384
>The original motivation for insertion into the daily planet was to get information on bad shit happening in the world for superman to respond to

No, it was to have something to do to support his human persona.

>>87092835

Pretty much, yeah. Superman throughout the movie is just trying to stay clear of "troubre" and after he gets hit by the news and false accusations he attempts to just brush them off. He's trying to distance himself from everything throughout the whole movie. Even his grudge against Batman stern from the fact that he feels he's the only one being persecuted. The same goes for his over-reliance on Lois, like as if he was trying to hide in inside her warm and moist pussy. His need to escape it all goes full course when he decides to abandon the world and the cape for good.

But eventually he realizes that you there's no escape the fact that in life every action you take will have consequences, including bad ones. Everyone desire to be good (for our fathers), but in real life there's no escaping being also a bit bad. You can't escape the bad and unintended consequences. He comes to accept that and in doing so he finally grows as a man. And in growing he can finally come back to the world and to his soon-to-be-wife.

This aspect of adulthood and how it all relates to our childhood, our upbringing, and our parents, coming back to reflect in the adult we become and the family we come to build for ourselves is something that is present ever since MoS.

For example, in BvS Batman issues with his father's legacy and his relationship with his mother, as well his brief relationship with Superman and Wonder Woman throughout the movie (see the order i placed their names?) also deal a bit with this. Bruce grows up a bit thanks to Superman and becomes more of complete man now that he has Wonder Woman by his side helping him.

Kinda of a conservative approach, since it places the old family unit as a very important aspect in a person path to maturity and health.

>>87093423
It never fails to amuse me how absolutely anally ravaged you people are about civil war.

>>87093442
>Hi I have no understanding of the characters beyond what I saw in zack snyder movies

this has been known for a while

>>87093425
If there's one thing about Zack Snyder, it's his love of pretty pictures. To the detriment of everything else.

>>87093350
The opening scene of BvS makes perfect sense in the context it's presented in. Right after Bruce's childhood trauma and before we actually see Superman in person. It perfectly sells us what BvS is all about, those who are impacted by Superman's actions. Him holding the little girl close to his heart says everything needed about their eventual conflict with almost zero words spoken.

The fact that they also filmed this scene exactly timing the climax of MoS is a sign of a filmmaker that actually cares and puts great ton of energy and time into creating a world that is believable and cohesive.

There. Your buttfuck retarded opinion debunked.

>>87093390
In the context of the movie I mean. On a basic level it makes sense, but it felt rushed since the movie was basically 3 movies clumsily taped together. And they're gonna bring him back in Justice League so the death has no weight. If they're gonna do the comic book resurrection BS they should've just kept him alive.

>>87093477
It's such a bad movie holy shit. I think it's a good example of how to try to do BvS and get everything you can do wrong, wrong. No way in hell it was coincidence those stories played out so similar on paper. Someone was leaking shit from WB and Disney capitalized on it creating a Chinese fake released a few weeks earlier.

>>87093440
Yes, you may be right that she could've done it. But Superman doesn't think like that. He is taking responsibility and does the job. It's not forced, it serves the story well and it makes sense to the character too.

>>87093506
Not him, but whatever you say about the movie's message, you gotta admit the actual plot of it is retarded.

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>>87093524
No it's not.

BvS places Superman in the second third of this chart. All the makings of the hero's journey.

>>87093506
Also, him filming it as the climax of MoS accomplishes fuck all. It's a cinematic universe, it's job is to be cohesive.

>>87093607

The plot is fine. People who are retarded. They can't deal with a capeshit movie that foregoes exposition.

>>87093506
Showing images that are meant to mean something and actually making the audience feel those things are two different things. This is basic fimmaking, basic storytelling. That whole sequence was filmed with inconsistent, add-style tonal shifts. It immediately got more interested in how "cool" the destruction looked and how badass it made bruce. Never once was their any feeling of real empathy or humanism in that entire sequence. You can't just cut to 9/11 dusty streets and some random ass little girl and expect the audience to immediately start weeping. Those moments are earned. This film never earns any of the impact it desperately wants. It's an overstuffed tryhard movie that just needed to tell a story competently.

Shoehorning it into a previous moment from the movie it's connected to is not impressive. There is no effort required for reusing a scene.

And you sound like a child with your namecalling shit.

>>87093443
Ok thanks for explaining. I do feel when Bruce says "I'm older now than my father ever was", is all the telling he lacks the father figure Clark does to guide him in his troubled times. Instead that hole is filled with guilt. Guilt of losing a father and being too weak to stop it and now outliving that father.

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>there are 2 bvs threads with over 150 replies currently up
you DCucks need to just make a general and contain your cancer there

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>>87093106
I honestly do believe he's Lex, Jr., but I don't think that's a bad thing thematically. The reason I believe he shares his father's name is his exchange with the Senators.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-4cJb25uzcU

>"The man on the marquis."
>"Don't believe it, don't believe it. My father named the company after himself. He was the "Lex" in front of the "Corp."

And from a thematic perspective, this Lex *is* the spiritual child of his previous incarnations, his dad was the corporate shark and powerbroker of the 80s and 90s; whereas this Lex plays at being different - the affected quirkiness and non-conformity of the Information Age's tech giants, Zuckerberg with his hoodies, Jobs with his turtlenecks, Gates with his "Gatesness." Scratch the veneer, though, and you find the same amoral corporate sociopath.

And like so many abused children before him, in the end, he becomes his father.

>>87093659
The plot is retarded. It tries to day way toi much.

>>87093610
It is rushed. The movie literally could've been a trilogy. You people are just contractions.

>>87093713
Are just contrarians*

>>87093610

Hey look Donner and Nolan did that in one film.

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>>87093665
>It immediately got more interested in how "cool" the destruction looked and how badass it made bruce
That's not the film's fault. That's you being an autistic manchild who can't relate to people suffering.

Pic related. Had more heart than any artifical tear jerker scene of Marvelshit. A man of faith saying his final goodbye.

>>87093700
Do you think us Marvel bros will ever get a thread with more than ten replies? It hurts me knowing just how superficial and shallow our camp is to the point where we just gave up and shitpost in BvS threads instead.

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>>87093443

What's Snyder deal with family and the need for a man to find a wife and recreate his parents life?

Is it because Snyder is Chrstian and father to a dozen of kids?

It's like he wants to force people to find a wife and make babies, because that's the only way a man can feel complete and help build a better society. MoS was full of that shit. What if you're gay? Or sterile?

Like, i feel he only introduced Wonder Woman in the movie because Batman needed a woman in his life to push that theme that bit further.

>>87093782
No, it's the way it's shot. You don't follow the badass car driving into the big cgi explosions to convey tragedy. You just don't. I don't give a fuck about Marvelshit. I'm talking about how to competently tell a story. This fails.

>>87085061
T

>>87093704
>He was the "Lex" in front of the "Corp."
Huh, I must have missed that part.
Well, that's a damn shame. Why would they not use the real Lex Luthor? Is Lex Luthor dead in this universe? So Superman won't even have his main enemy present in his life as Superman? LOL. This is even more annoying to me.

Yeah I understand the things you describe, but I don't like that they went for that. Sorry, it's my oponion that the character was bad. But I liked the movie overall anyway.

>>87093423

If your benchmark for comparison is the MCU then you really shouldn't be bragging about how great that film is.

>>87093829
>Why is this man so concerned with the whole reason of man existing
Oh Geez I dunno

>>87093782
Why do you retards always go to Marvel? Marvel movies are pretty crappy too, but BvS is even worse. A prayer goodbye is in a hundred other movies. When I saw that I was like "meh."

>>87093868
Because I know there will always be marvelfags shitposting hurt by it. Don't pretend you're here for anything else.

>>87093892
I'm not. I'm here because BvS sucks.

>>87092835
To me, it's him coming to terms with the fact that both his actions as well as his inactions carry consequences. The best he can do is learn to confront them and learn to live with them. He can't let fear of not being able to foresee the outcome paralyze him into inaction, just do what his instincts and his moral compass tell him to do and hope for the best.

That's not just a hero lesson; it's a good lesson on how to be a damn man.

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>>87093866

What if you're sterile? You're a bad person? Because that seems to be Snyder's opinion. Just look at Zod. Zod and his people were against sex and saw the traditional family making was a sin. Is that how Snyder view sexless people?

>>87093865
>>87093868

Good points. I've stopped watching marvel after Winter soldier and CW bored me to tears. So can DCucks explain why your go to argument is that BvS is better than MCU?

Why not Compare it to Spiderman 2 or the TDK trilogy or Hellboy 2?

>>87093965
Jesus Christ stop try to create a narrative that isn't there you pathetic fuck. I doubt Snyder gives the least shit about how many miserable kids you manage to shit out. However any boy growing up will have a very special relation to his parents. BvS is about that relation to parents - The ideal one, The missing one, The traumatic one (assuming Lex isn't lying which he might).

>>87093423
I don't think the text about Superman is accurate actually. I don't think Superman was ever going to let himself be controlled under the limitations of international law. I think he was there to be heard and to listen to their concerns, and to show that he is not a threat to them. It's the same as in MOS when he was taken into that room, in which he let them put handcuffs on him, but also told them that they would never control him.

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>>87093829

I feel that Snyder suffers from some serious father's issues and oedipal complex.

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>L-Leave MCU alone, we moueshills dindu nuffin!!
lmao

>>87093160
With a lot of people falling somewhere in between, like the oil rig's crew and the kid and his mom we see watching the protests on TV. All those folks unquestionably see him as one of the good guys.

>>87094069
Dude, 2 things can suck at once.

>>87094056
Well there's a difference between limiting your actions to law and being a government pawn. In MoS he clearly rejects being a government pawn. But in BvS I feel like he really wants to show the world that he's not existing outside of the world and its laws. He's beneath them just like everyone else (Except Batman, who he comes to loathe)

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>>87086620
>Liking BvS
>Not brainlet
BvS is true garbage because Snyder simply isn't very smart.
His fundamental flaw is his obsession with moments. People say he's a great visual artist, well of course he is, that's where all the focus goes. People say his characters are flat and lack motivations, well of course they do because all character work is subservient to crafting moments meant to awe the audience. What we are left with is really pretty pieces of shit. If you don't see this you're just in denial or have bad taste, and you're kind of stupid like old Hack Snyder.
>Inb4 adurr movies are a visual medium. Adurrrrrr
Yes, no shit. But there's plenty of directors who have proven you can craft good moment and meaningful characters if you get your priorities straight. The priority of a good filmmaker is as follows: Movie first, Scene second, Moments third. Hack Snyder's priorities are: Moments first, Scene second, Movie third. He sucks. Accept it faggots.

>>87093989

>Why not Compare it to Spiderman 2 or the TDK trilogy or Hellboy 2?

Oh no comparing Snyder with filmmakers who are both visionaries and also extremely competent is not allowed. You can only compare to tv directors of the MCU.

>>87093989
You have to understand BvS shitposting for what it really is, the movie appeals to pseudo intellectuals and very blatantly forces its themes down your throat so in the DC-Marvel war people use it to portray DC as the dark and gritty side with Marvel being the light and happy side.

Combine this with good ol' chan contrarianism and the fact that so many betas here love backing underdogs mean we get threads full of samefags and circlejerkers like >>87093443, >>87092835
, >>87092606 or whatever else, people who write long essays and pretend the film is deeper than it really is to trigger the nonexistent marvelfag presence on the board. and just like with /pol/fags, tumblrfags, /v/irgins, and whatever else is plaguing /tv/ at the moment if you tell them to fuck off they'll just call you a marvelfag/shill/whatever.

>>87093215
Lex doesn't control all the media. He doesn't have to. He can just count on them doing what they do - focusing on the bad and reporting the "controversy" over the facts.

Not even the Daily Planet was immune.

>>87093501
>I'm judging a character in a Zack Snyder film on something from outside a Zack Snyder film

Fuck right off back to /co/ if you want to talk about comic books little man.

>>87094212
>you will never be this buttblasted marvelfag
I love also how you dismiss the actual well-typed posts with "omg the contrarians".

I hope you choke on cocks.

>>87093848
>You don't follow the badass car driving into the big cgi explosions to convey tragedy

You do it to convey chaos. The tragedy doesn't come until after.

>>87094136
Maybe you're right. Did he have any lines that make you interpret it that way?

>>87094177

>Raimi, Nolan and Del Toro

Have any of these hacks produced a single visually stunning moment in any of their films?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-k-tQxJv8o

Everyone needs to look at this. Look how much more human BvS is to its Marvel counterpart. This is because BvS is made by actual people and not just an assembly-line focus-tested garbage.

>>87094269
That doesn't convey chaos. It conveys a car commercial and a bad action movie. I'm sorry, anon, but filmic language is pretty critical to conveying tone and feeling. That sequence fails.

>>87094257
Not him, but you don't have to dismiss them with anything else. They take these average scenes and think they're the pinnacle of film making. It's like a first year film student trying to inject meaning into an episide or GoT or something.

>>87094313

Why don't you do as this post says >>87093989 anon?

Zack Snyder is an avowed follower of Ayn Rand. That, to me, says all you need to know about his worldview and why his movies are the way they are.

>>87094363
Civil War is as close to BvS you can get done by a different company/director sharing a similar plot.

But of course the results are vastly different. One takes place in a fantasy land of quips and CGI airports, the other takes place in our world where superheroes must fight to justify their existence in this world.

>>87094257
>>87094337

Take one of the posts for example that says that BvS deals with Batman's father issues. No shit, he's Batman. That's like half of what Batman is.

>>87094441
What previous cinematic interpretation of Batman has portrayed Batman's loss as an actual traumatic aspect of Batman weakening rather than strengthening him? Nolan films use his trauma to strengthen him. Snyder uses it to weaken him, something he must overcome to become a superhero proper.

>>87094477

Comic books,lad. That's where Snyder and the writer whatshisname got the inspiration from. In the comics Batman IS very much a traumatized man. He's always been. The earlier batman movies just didn't portray Batman in his full depth.

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>>87094154
>frogposting
>call others a brainlet

>>87094477
In every Batman film ever that at least glosses over the death of his parents it's an obstacle he has to overcome that turns him into who he is. In nearly all of them It's traumatic. I fail to see how it even weakens him in Snyder's film in any meaningful way.

>>87093782
That hit me pretty hard, honestly.

>>87094666
They portray the actual event as traumatic. But they rarely portray it as a traumatic part of Batman weakening his state of mind.

>>87094313
Great video, subbed.

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>>87094658
>Hating frogposting

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>>87085061
>What am I missing?
You have shit taste. There is no cure.

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>Shows bat-origin over and over and over
>Bruce hates Superman for destruction like hating American soldiers for WW2. Again we can't get a smart bat
>Court indicts Superman because they think he shot a bunch of people. Superman ... with a gun
>Lex painfully miscast. His lines are try-hard and his eventual plan doesn't even fit his established beef.
>batman's dreams should have been post credit as they further muddy the already muddy plot
>The entire Lois-and-the-staff-of-kryptonite scene is the ultimate shit combo of bad writing, directing, and acting
>Wonder Woman should have been left out. Then we don't get that hilariously simple "heist"
>The entire script is a mess which is a shame because the two main leads are actually OK in the roles.

There is a good movie hidden in there. A massive re-edit and recast/rewrite of Lex could turn this into a good (not great) movie. Batman's motivations need to be smarter too. I appreciate their Doomsday origin more than the comic book origin.

>>87095518
oh yeah... also
>No one evacuates Wayne Ent building ... He has to TELL them to evacuate.
>doesn't evacuate. Has drama instead

>>87095518
>over and over and over
Twice
>Bruce hates Superman for destruction
No, he fears the destruction he's capable of
>Court indicts Superman because they think he shot a bunch of people
Things that didn't happen Mk. I
>batman's dreams should have been post credit
Nah
>The entire Lois-and-the-staff-of-kryptonite scene is
Perfectly fine. Clark can't get it because it's Kryptonite and everyone else is busy.
>Wonder Woman should have been left out.
Agreed.
>The entire script is a mess
Not so much in the Ultimate Cut

>>87095705
More than twice, friendo.
And yeah, they blame superman for all those people who were shot. Someone needs to rewatch their oscar worthy DC """"movie"""

Ultimate cut, as said above, fixes (almost)nothing and just adds more on top.

>>87095805
No, they criticise Superman for interfering in what happened, at no point to they blame him for killing people who were clearly shot.

>>87086126
>(even though he doesn't understand what that story was about)
isn't that always the case with snyder

>>87093863
>Is Lex Luthor dead in this universe?

Maybe. The short answer is "We don't know." The long answer is that for all that he talks about his dad, Lex never once mentions his own mother, and this from the guy who at least seems to understand how important mothers are to their children. That leaves open some interesting possibilities, namely:

1) He never knew her.

2) He knew her but his memories of her are extremely difficult for him to share.

3) He doesn't actually have one and is, in fact, a clone.

It wouldn't exactly be without precedent.

>>87095860

They do blame him for killing. That's why they have the flamethrower scene and superman explaining he didn't kill anyone to Lois(why would he do it if he wasn't being accused) and the black woman's accusations.

>>87093989
Honestly? Because I hold his films to at least that level. If I were in a position where I was defending The Dark Knight or Hellboy or Spider-Man 2, I wouldn't compare them to each other, either. I'd blast the MCU for being a cheap knock-off imitation with reskinned (shit-tier) Pixar characters by comparison.

>>87095610
The building pretty much *was* empty already.

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>>87085061
>I thought this movie was pretty darn good

then you must be in middle school or have sever autism

>>87096311
No I'm 24 years old. But now that I have you here, what makes the movie a 27% kind of movie?

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>>87094313
Batman v Superman is dark&gritty so you're much more mature for liking it

It doesn't matter that Civil War has a better script, characters, dialogue, plot, and action. BvS is dark&gritty so it's automatically better.

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>>87095805
Not more than twice, friendo. We get:

>The intro
>the flashback to his father

The only other time you could conceivably be talking about was his Man-Bat nightmare, and not only do all those scenes occur in both cuts, you're revealing that your brainlet ass didn't even get the point of his nightmare to begin with.

Alfred all but spells it out in literally the next scene.

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>>87096354
You either completely ignored the dozens of plotholes in the movie while you watched or you're a Snyder fanboy trolling.

I'm sad because What I was really hoping for was a Man of Steel trilogy on par with quality and completeness of The Dark Knight trilogy. I walked out of MoS happy and sad because I knew the hooked nose accountants were going to force superman into a cinematic universe where he could never be dully explored and complete and have a whole story told. A full arc of existence like Nolan's batman.

They wanted to rub the superman shekel against the batman shekel and get a whole pile of justice league shekels. Its very disappointing. The second superman movie is just a batman movie where superman is just an issue or idea and not a man. I enjoyed it for what it is, but it was disappointing.

If I were DC/Warner Brothers I would have let there be a cinematic universe where Superman is the sole superhero and not intertwined with everyone else. This allows for the same kind of exploration of themes of power and humanity. Give him three or six solid films to tell his story completely, uninterrupted by aqua man and other distractions. Nolan quality at least. He might of even signed up if they had given him that option of crafting a Superman. Then people like me who love Superman and don't like Avengers and team buddy movies can enjoy a high quality superman series that makes tankerships full of shekels.

At the same time start a second DC universe series that starts with BvS but has different actors for all the roles. This universe is the Justice League universe that sees superman as just a side character and can be wonky and Snyderish. Then there is also an avengers style universe that appeals to man children that will also make tanker ships full of shekels.

Why didn't they just double thier money and have two supermans, told differently in different universes.

>>87096311
>Le Lex was the riddler maymay

Fuck off back to Re.ddit

>>87096393
>Civil War has a better script, characters, dialogue, plot, and action

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you've never actually seen Civil War

>>87096430
No, I'm not trolling.

However, I did watch the extended cut that some people ITT says solved a lot that made the theatrical cut bad.

Which plot holes do you mean specifically? A few plot holes doesn't make a movie 27%-worthy in my book tho. I mean, I find plot holes in all the best rated movies, and I find plot holes in this movie.

>>87096422
Yep. More than twice.
Glad to see you admit that you were wrong.

>>87089022
It's because he's more human than he thought he was and he knows what it's like to lose a mother
Not that it isn't dumb

>>87094154
>I watched a YouTube video once and it told me what to think

>>87094313
Pretty damn good analysis.

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>>87094277
No problem nes, just visuals. He limits himself to rescues and leaves actual law enforcement to the police. He *foils* crimes, he doesn't fight them. Any bystander with a cellphone can foil a crime. The only point where we see him ready to overstep his boundary is with Lex, right after he pushed Lois off his tower.

>>87092241
It's not the Sistine Chapel, pleb. It's in the Louvre.

>>87092616
>I agree that the film is largely about Superman's self-deception of what he is becoming in the eyes of others. He was raised a farmer boy in Kansas. He wants to save people and try to make the world a better place. But suddenly he has to come to terms with consequences far beyond his control, that he will be held accountable for
I recommend for you an Alex Ross' comic "01. Superman - Peace On Earth". It deals with these themes and Snyder's Superman was clearly inspired by this version of Superman.

>>87092835
>he was really hurt by the fact that his actions were being falsely portrayed as hurtful
I see a parralel with Snyder. "Sucker Punch" being portrayed as sexist, BvS being totally shat on, getting a razzie and so on.

>>87096637
A grown-up, greying Bruce Wayne visiting his parents' crypt to leave flowers is "origin" to you?

Man, if you include all the similar instances of him visiting their graves and leaving flowers in Crime Alley, then there at least several hundred instances of his "origin."

>>87096393
BvS is actually way more optimistic than CW ever could be since we see superheroes succeed in a world that operates like ours. In CW, we see them operate in a cartoon world that bends in whatever way the plot demands it. Like how the quip-tastic finale of Age of Ultron is suddenly a grave tragedy in CW all of sudden.

>>87097260
>I recommend for you an Alex Ross' comic "01. Superman - Peace On Earth". It deals with these themes and Snyder's Superman was clearly inspired by this version of Superman.
I have read it and I absolutely loved it. Yes I agree Snyder draws heavily from that comic.

I also agree that there is a personal statement of Snyder in BvS where he has to find reason to go on making something he considers the right thing despite so much media and fanboy backlash. It's probably hard as fuck being in his position where the right thing isn't the easy thing to do.

>>87085061
marvel pays the media so they hate dc , green lantern was also a masterpiece but it got bad reviews

>>87098007
You know? In retrospect, I can honestly say that my only criticism of that movie was Hal Jordan shouldn't be Tony Stark. With all that's come since then, it's not any worse than the worst MCU movies. Not exactly glowing praise, mind you, but it says a lot about critical bias.

5 acts instead of standard 3

>>87098567
This only shows that Snyder, despite of being labeled as a conservative, is in fact innovative, "thinks outside the box", isn't afraid of new formulas.

>>87098740
First of all that's a poorly structured sentence you got there, pal. Second, being a political conservative has nothing to do with conservativeness as a term. Thirdly, this movie wasn't a new formula for anything. It crammed a bunch of films into one and got cut up to shit to make it somehow all work.

I have a question for those who didn't like the movie: did you bother to watch the extended version?

If not, do you just assume that the extended version doesn't fix the structure of the movie at all? It does.

>>87099116
I have not watched it. Why would I watch an even longer version of something I didn't enjoy. The structure wasn't the only thing that needed fixing.

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>>87099116
You are attempting to reason with them. If you didn't know, it's mostly the same 3-4 shitposters every thread doing this on routine because it makes them feel insecure about their precious corporate fanboyism. Good luck reasoning with them. People without mental illnesses aren't that obsessed with something they supposedly hate.

>>87099161
>framing this as mcu vs dceu instead of good movies vs shit movies

everytime

>>87099214
>he said after his 50th post this thread desperately replying to anyone who liked the film in a condescending piss manner
Be glad I labelled you in the corporate fanboy category. The other category would've been severe mental illness well past saving.

>>87099155
Well, I'm not saying that you would automatically like it because you watch the director's cut, but I think that you would come to realize that it's not that bad. I feel like it fixes a lot of shit. I felt a lot of difference from the theatrical myself. It was a major difference. I know well how the theatrical cut feels like, but maybe you hated it really much, I dunno.

>>87099303
I posted in this thread because I love great storytelling and filmmaking. People pretending like this piece of shit was a worthy dedication of time is affront to that. Marvel and DC can both go fuck off with their plastic movies.

>>87099304
Like I said, there's far more that's wrong with it than just pacing or story structure. I don't care about the film as much to reinvest time to probably end up feeling the same way I felt when I saw it the first time. Extended cuts, in my experience, rarely ever improve on the original.

It's a very bad film. If you like it because it's "complex" or because you just like comic book movies or whatever that's fine. But it earned its reviews. You can read the bad reviews and they go in depth as to why they thought it was bad.

>>87085061
Abysmal movie.

Extremely boring, incoherent, frustrating, ugly, annoying, some bad performances, some awful performances. Don't waste your time.

>>87098007
>green lantern was also a masterpiece
This is the stupidest thing I've read in a year.

As bad as BvS is I still give it a 4.5/10
Green Lantern is such a complete joke 2/10
This sheds a light on the DC Fan Army. >Delusional badge achieved

>>87099421
>rarely ever improve on the original.
But that's the thing, it was the extended version that was the original. WC cut it because they wanted to make it shorter, and then Snyder had to cut important scenes all over the movie that was there for a reason.

But I'll regress. What kind of mistakes put you off besides those aforementioned?

>>87099161
Always so desperate to convince the majority of people that they should like something that they think was shit.

BvS fans are the old TDKR fans.

>>87099214
I'll frame it as what it is:

Fucking clueless "not muh" fanboys hate this movie, despite not understanding the characters or the source material half as well as it does.

Ass-blasted pseuds hate it for outing them as pseuds, so they dIs Lex Luthor dead in this universe?esperately cling to arguments that deny the facts right before their faces and cower behind terms like "headcanon" and "seropies of moments" like the fucking brainless parrots they are.

Console war faggots hate it because they're console war faggots.

Butthurt Muzzies(the Wahhabbists) hate it for subtly calling out Wahhabism as the root of fanaticism within their heretical take on their religion. The residual butthurt from 300 still follows Snyder as well.

Virtue-signaling SJW fucktards hate on it because their favorite lefty blogger told them to.

Antifa hate on it because any whiff of the slightest right-leaning theme triggers them, and according to them and virtually no one else, Snyder is an Objectivist, despite the fact that there are multiple far older, far more well-regarded, far better thought-out philosophies that incorporate the same beliefs that they single out in Snyder's works as being unquestionably Objectivist.

Intellectual snobs hate it because it's "capeshit," as if that actually means anything or there is such a thing as an inherently vapid genre.

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>>87085061
You watched the extended version. Theatrical cut was a disaster, and that's what most people saw.

>>87099502
The only one desperate here is you. Fuck I'm glad I'm not so much of a reject that I spend all my days convincing people to hate a film I didn't like because my corporate overlords didn't make it.

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>>87095955
Yeah. I'm still butthurt over how great the Watchmen movie almost was.

>>87099561
and regular folks hate it for its basic lack of quality

>>87099561
>"not muh" fanboys
Sure.
>"psueds"
Okay.
>Console War faggots
Yeah.
>Butthurt Muzzies
The most offensive part about this part of your tirade is that your claiming anything in this film is "subtle".
>Virtue-signaling SJW fucktards
Most folks with no opinion of their own tend to follow some kinda herd.
>Antifa
Being mad at a group like Antifa because they don't like Zack Snyder movies seems hilarious to me. So many other things to critique them on, but you choose a comic book movie.
>Intellectual snobs
I love a good "capeshit" movie. The genre isn't vapid, it's just a framework. This was just a shitty film. That's the "framing device" I'm using, Mr. Conspiracy.

>>87099492
It's not really relevant whether the theatrical one or the extended one is the "original" one. Not relevant to me, anyway. I have a really, really long list of things I disliked about it. I posted earlier on this thread starting with the first scene and how it failed on a basic storytelling level. There's things in literally every scene that bother me. Especially when I can see kernels of good things in them (like how the cast, overall, was a lot of great actors that were wasted).

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>""Bad" movies you unironically enjoyed" thread?
I just finished watching it and quite enjoyed it, despite having seen and liking the animu before.

>>87099922
Me too. It wasn't all that bad. Hell, if you can tolerate the Machikomo in the GitS series then the movie is easy.

>BvS was mediocre

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>>87099787
I love it when a reasonable adult shows up in a BvS thread and effortlessly waves the fog of idiocy that cloaks the debate away.

Well done, anon

>>87099787
Yeah, it's so not-subtle that it took over a year for a critic other than Armond White to point out what the fans had been saying since day one.

Also, I think I'll sum up my rebuttal to your entire response like so:

Sure. Okay. Yeah.

>>87093579
>But Superman doesn't think

This is accurate. As all superman (or anyone) has done in the DCEU is react.

>>87093560
You really just come off as upset that civil war made more money than BvS.

>>87099743
Almost good is as good as a watchmen movie ever could have been. Just read the comic.

>>87100963
>he pretends to be intelligent
>he can't even think of an opposite for subtle

...

>>87085578
>kills like 20 more
>literal mercenary terrorists holding an innocent life hostage
>the main terrorist dies by his own flame


ffffff FUCK off with this moralizing bullshit, it has nothing to do with whether or not the movie is good or not


and newsflash, every single scene in the movie relates to every other scene in the movie, basic thematic concerns are always present

>>87104022
Sure, because lex is behind literally every scene in the movie.

>>87086126
>The movie is inconsistent in its backstory for Batman
no it isn't
that these factors contribute to batman's current circumstance isn't an "inconsistency"
who the fuck actually gets to SEE batman?
>adapt imagery and themes from the Dark Knight Returns (even though he doesn't understand what that story was about)
more bullshit
snyder explicitly stated that he didn't want to adapt dkr, but take aspects of it that were useful to bvs, and surprise surprise, it takes a lot from it while subverting the relationship between superman and batman completely

>Lex Luthor's entire plan is to discredit God to the people or have him destroyed by its strongest man, but for all of his grandstanding his plan boils down to "build monster to kill Superman"
>knowledge without power is paradoxical
>i don't hate the sinner, i hate the sin, and yours my friend is existing
>they have to see the fraud you are

lex is completely egoic and the monster is him literally "not knowing how to lose"


you can't lose if you blow the board up

seriously, i WISH people would actually watch the movie instead picking up on irony and paradox then claiming the movie is "incoherent"

I found a flaw in James beating. The truckers are giving him a much deserved beating yet Magic Glove Kid steps in and stops this moment of retribution. This doesn't follow Justice procedures. BAD WRITING

>>87092945
there's more to this

duality is present throughout the movie
what is the ONE duality that is fully dissolved at the climax?

[spoilers]fantasy/reality[/spoiler]


the fact that doomsday and superman die in a dialectical ying yang ouroboros where the "S" itself is torn is not a coincidence

>>87092606
>That's all that Superman represents in the film: a being of power


>THERE WERE PERFECT THINGS
>DIAMOND ABSOLUTES


underrated post


its so ironic that these posts show the most in terms of proof yet they aren't taken seriously

>>87086892
Well no, because that didn't happen.

>>87093704
>>87093863
>>87095987
the 'answer' is that it's just a meta nod and wink to how comics work in general while still holding to the internal logic of the movie, while cutting all the bullshit and admitting that this is all about power and fantasy and nothing else

>>87094413
>Zack Snyder is an avowed follower of Ayn Rand
misinformation
the only thing he's said about ayn rand is that he likes the fountainhead because of how its a statement on the artistic process


if you try to say anything else than that you're trying to manipulate people to see the man a certain way

>>87104107
so what, he loves bringing people together and likes flaunting his power over others,


>knowledge is power

part of the movie is watching lex bruce and clark and seeing how they react to powerlessness

>>87085061
i think that people were going to see a dc movie and expecting a marvel movie instead. my rsting was a 7 of 10. you gotta to think with the movie, instead of recieving it on a silverplate

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>>87085230
Okay... The 1stable, do you understand the differences among the mediums? All kinds of film belongs to "To show medium" which it tells the story by showing moving pictures. The theory works just fine til ppl in the industry start dealing with the material that comes from the comic. The comic is the kind that can contain so much information on the single page. Zack sort of tried to go both ways within the single frame, but considering how one handles medium, this also causes the problem. The one is a viewer has the control how a one enjoys material, the other is that the one just takes information pouring. So I say Zack's effort on "B vs S" is pretty good attempt to convey both mediums as long as you handles it like you reading comic book, anon.

>>87094313
JFC, there's more to the opening scenes than just whether or not they decide to focus on anything other than the main characters
In civil war, not only are the people passive, its literally the "brown people far away, who gives a fuck" perspective that gets criticized to often, even in our actual movie fantasies these people are completely expendable


fucking bvs addresses this STRAIGHT UP through the warlord, while also revealing that within the logic of the movie, this person is indeed expendable because of corporate greed


fucking christ
i swear to god i'll never doubt zack snyder again

>>87092442
You're rationalizing this backwards. You're trying to explain why the DCEU is more immersive and more entertaining for audiences when we know for a fact that's not true. You're inflating the weight attached to the virtues of the DCEU to make them seem more important than they self-evidently are.

>>87105180
Not sure I know what you're describing. I used to read comic books in my young days, tho. You're saying that BvS was trying to use imagery like a comic book and that's why it feels weird when going through different scenes?

>>87092749
omg so deep

>>87105059
Lex being behind literally everything in the movie doesn't paint lex as some sort of supreme genius, it paints every other character as extremely stupid.

>>87094313
Why don't DC movies have any color? They're so dull looking, they should learn from Marvel for how to make a movie actually look like a comic.

>>87105655
so because everyone wasn't concerned with surveillance and espionage they're stupid?

okay

>>87105919
Batman and superman both have the resources at their disposal to uncover something like that, as lex doesn't even try to hide it.

But they don't.

Because they're stupid.

So yes.

>>87105997
and why would they even be concerned about that in the first place

how the fuck do you seriously think this is somehow relevant


fucking lois actually does this shit you're talking about, and only because she inadvertently gets material evidence that leads back to luthor


clark is too busy caring about poor people in gotham and batman, bruce is too busy chasing the white portuguese and caring about superman


this is a total non argument

>>87106202
>and why would they even be concerned about that in the first place

Yes, why would batman wonder why everyone he brands is murdered in prison?

Why would superman wonder why the media seems against him for no good reason, when people in general are beyond 100% open to him?

They don't, because they're stupid.

>one of the plotlines in the movie is how lex is trying to frame superman for shooting a bunch of people in africa.

>no character ever once reflects upon how utterly moronic this is

>>87106294
>Yes, why would batman wonder why everyone he brands is murdered in prison?
because its not his problem
a human trafficker killed in jail, oh shit, must automatically be a conspiracy right?
>Why would superman wonder why the media seems against him for no good reason, when people in general are beyond 100% open to him?
why does the media do what the media does, oh shit, must be a conspiracy that i must look to
okay

>>87106414
>literally not true

>>87106555
>pretending the lois' magic bullet plotline didn't happen

...

>>87085061
as has been said before, extended ("ultimate") edition makes all the difference

>>87106510
>pretending the bat-brand plotline didn't establish a lot of people who were branded were murdered in jail

>pretending someone wouldn't be able to discern a huge divide between media and personal experience

...

>>87106601
Really? Because I never saw the theatrical. Only the director's cut. (oh, and I guess I will ask the question, there is only 1 director's cut, right? Not like 2 or 3 different cuts like in watchmen?)

>>87106651
Yep, only two cuts, theatrical and extended.

>>87106583
They weren't trying to frame Superman for shooting the people. Holy shit..

>>87106673
Cool. Guess I should be happy to have watched the extended instead of the theatrical then, because I really liked it.

>>87106708
Were they trying to frame superman for killing people who also just so happened to have been shot?

>>87106764
>>87106651
differentfags

>>87106823
No, I wrote both of them. And I'm also OP.

>>87106786
They were burned. It happened in the middle of the desert, they weren't going to report an autopsy to the public. All the public knew what Superman came and fucked shit up.

Think for yourself.

>>87106936
Oh right, I forgot how they were going to try to frame superman for burning bodies (that had also been shot) with flamethrowers.

Because over 18 months it's been well established that superman uses flamethrowers and guns.

>>87094313
>more human
Except for, you know, the actual main characters.

>>87085061
Youre right it kind of kicked ass. I love violent Batman personally and thought Batfleck kicked ass.
Comic book fans are just fags

>>87107358
Nice to see others share my opinion.

Hey, when is next DC movie coming out, and what movie will that be?

>>87107763
Justice League in November, I think

>>87085061

I think people have concluded that only Nolan is allowed to touch "superheroes" and get good response.

Is there anywhere else on the internet where people obsess over BvS like /tv/?

>>87109094
constant shilling is harder to do on non-anonymous webspaces.

>>87109094
You just need to find something else poorly made with with some depth. Blade Runner maybe?

>>87091640

this is so on point

>>87109234
a ton of movies on mst3k fit that

>>87106639
>>pretending the bat-brand plotline didn't establish a lot of people who were branded were murdered in jail
>pretending that this is what was in question in our conversation
>>pretending someone wouldn't be able to discern a huge divide between media and personal experience
>pretending this this is also somehow relevant


thanks for the cardio, looking forward to the next world cup

>>87106583
>>87106786
>>87107025

>twisting lois' plotline into something it isn't

WE, the audience, are let in on how lex is manipulating the narrative through his government connections and through kgbeast, the other characters don't know this shit, and usually only find out when its too late


most of the 'problems' itt comes from people constantly mixing the two up then blaming the movie for being deliberate with how it divulged information