So how exactly was he evil? >inb4 muh books a movie should

he folds the corner of the page to mark his place in books

>>87001688
He started a war to conquer Middle-earth. War is evil.

>>87001688
>reading Cracked
Stop being a sensitive nu male.

>>87001952
In the prolog, we see it is actually the elves and humans who invade mordor. Sauron is only defending his people

>>87002014
incorrect

>>87001688
he tried to conquer gondor

>>87002071
That's a border dispute between two neighbouring kingdoms. How exactly does it make him evil?

>>87002039
proof?

>>87002014
They beat him back. It's basically fantasy Downfall.

>>87002120
minas morgul used to belong to gondor before he invaded it (which killed a lot of people). if i live next to you and have a "border dispute" with you so i kill you and your family and take over your house, am i good or evil?

>>87002127
So you're saying that Sauron was just like Hitler? Meaning he did nothing wrong?

>>87002253
Gondor is descended from Numenorean colonists that stole that land from indigenous orcs.

>"And into this ring he poured his cruelty, his malice and his will to dominate all life"
>Condemned the nine ringbearer kings to an existence of undead servitude
>Has an army composed of a race born from desecrated corpses
>"One by one, the free lands of Middle Earth fell to the power of the ring".

That or the eight feet tall with a spicky black armor are a dead giveaway

>>87002622
>race born from desecrated corpses
What

>>87002696
Orcs don't reproduce. They spawn from the corpses of elves.

>>87002338
Orcs aren't indigenous. They're not even a natural species; Morgoth created them by torturing and corrupting elves.

He was a giant eyeball. Clearly Orwellian and would watch everyone when they fapped. Very evil stuff.

>>87001688
He imposed a no flight zone around Mordor

>>87002827
I thought they were inbred mutants. Weren't Uruks originally created by them raping woman prisoners?

>>87001688

Raised an army of abominations and used them to raze peaceful cities? Practices necromancy and slavery.

>>87003057
wtf

>>87003076
They say they are part human but don't explain how.

>>87002827
Where did you get this from?

>>87002963
That's barely canon. Tolkien never really decided a definitive origin for orcs.

is there cute girl orcs anywhere?

>>87002253
>minas morgul used to belong to gondor before he invaded it
proof?

>>87002127
>>87002622
Galadriel is obiviously an unreliable narrator

>>87003057
>>87003076
Fan theory from the films due to Uruk's in Rohan being shown to have lighter hair, a human Rohan trait thus implying that they are a product of spliced Orc and Humans captured around Rohan.

The "rape" part is a bit out there considering the Uruks are podbabies and according to Tolkien himself; Orcs reproduce "the normal way"

>>87002977
>you will never watch Arwen fapping nightly to stay pure for Aragorn

>>87002827
Go back to your containment thread, /GoT/dit

>>87003397
>The "rape" part is a bit out there considering the Uruks are podbabies
They weren't podbabies in the books, just the films. Book Saruman made them through magically enhanced selective breeding. Meaning he probably did have a corp of hand picked orcs fucking the sturdiest Rohirrim shieldmaidens he could get his hands on.

>>87001688
>a movie should stand on its own merit

WHY?

>>87002014
>Sauron is only defending his people

Did you even watch the movie?

>>87003159
wrong universe
try warcraft

>>87003490
I assume you were furiously masturbating while typing this out

>>87002338
Incorrect.

A reminder that the men of the east betrayed the men of the west.

>>87003601
>men of east being slanty eyed back stabbers

At least Tolkien got that much right.

>>87001998
>>reading Cracked
Dear lord, I forgot about that retarded article

>>87003560
No I need scenarios way more degenerate than that to get off these days.

>colluded with umbars
>backed out of Mt Doom climate agreement
>built giant wall to stop gondorian migrants
>persecuted goblin minorities by giving them maggoty bread
>grabbed elves by the pussy
>backed up goblins in morian west bank settlement debate
>lives in tower with his name on it
Literally Drumpf. No wonder the fucker was impreached.

Elendil and his house are a bunch of deserters and heretic scum, they fled from the war like cowards because they were jealous of Sauron, who heroically perished in the fall and carried on the will of Númenor. The kings of Arnor and Gondor are a bunch of peasant bastards descended from some whore, they're lords of nothing, took land that wasn't theirs and their "kingdoms" decayed as they should.

All accounts of the elder days and the fall were made by elves and elf friends, and are kept in middle-earth by the (((wise))). They cannot be trusted.

>>87003522
Yes.
All he ever wanted was to get back his ring. How is that evil?

>>87004209
Because of his reasons for getting the ring back and why the ring was created in the first place.

>>87004209
The Ring he created to enslave everyone else in Middle Earth by controlling the other rings he gave out to people.

Industrialized the world destroying the balance of mother nature.
>yfw if he won there'd be orkz in space

>>87004303
How is that evil?

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>>87001688
He just wanted to return order and respectable hierarchy.
He didn't want to genocide Middle Earth from all humans like elvish propaganda portrays him.
Orcs were just weapons and would be eliminated after he'd won.

Don't believe everything elves tell your, kids.

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>>87001688

I wanna fuck Galadriel in the ass while Sam cups my balls in his hand and eggs me on.

>>87004254
>>87004303
according to (((((Elves)))))

I heard every race killed, enslaved and hated orcs until Sauron came and gave the orcs the chance to fight back

Is that true?

>>87004093
>Elendil and his house are a bunch of deserters and heretic scum, they fled from the war like cowards because they were jealous of Sauron, who heroically perished in the fall and carried on the will of Númenor.
Objectively correct.

>>87004303
Correction: to enslave the traitors of Númenor and the elvish plague. The dwarves used their rings wisely to make their kingdoms great, but the elves don't like that, so it's "bad".

Sauron has been trying to complete his master's task and rid middle-earth of the trash the Valar sent back and left behind.

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>>87004027
>When Gondor sends its people to war, they're not sending their best. They're not sending Rohan. They're not sending Rivendell. They're sending hobbits that have lots of smoking and drinking problems, and they're bringing those hobbits to Mount Doom. They're bringing dwarves. They're bringing ghosts. They're led by a ranger. And some, I assume, are good people.
Jesus christ Jackson

>>87004303
The elves should have read their TOS agreements.

>>87004769
No? Where are you getting this from? It would be according to a hobbit if anything. Elves had nothing to do with writing the book.

>>87004630
>galadriel
Arwen is thiccer. Better for ass stuff. Galadriel is for face fucking.

>>87004772
Yes
Sauron was an orc rights activist

>>87003874
>>87001998
Is that one of the "they were dead the whole time" type of articles?

>>87004772
Well Orcs are literally evil incarnate so that's not a good thing.

>>87004772
Absolutely and without qualification. Saruman took this same plan and extended it to the Dunlendings, giving them a chance to leave their reservations and participate in a modernization of the country's infrastructure.

>>87004893
prologue was narrated by Galadriel

>winning fair and square after overcoming long and difficult challenges
>get beaten by the (((good))) guys because they used army of wretched undead

>>87004924
how are orcs any more evil than men?

>>87004893
Ah yes the Baggins family. Who, correct me if I'm wrong, spent many a long holiday in Rivendell as personal guests of (((Elrond)))?

>>87004893
Elves and their friends have always been against Melkor and Sauron, their accounts are not accurate. All races fought for both sides, all but elves, and we should trust what they say?

What good did the elves ever do to middle-earth? The trash of Feanor came back to wage war, the scum that stayed with Melian (the first racemixer of all) and Thingol used the Dwarves and stole from them. All the elvish kingdoms fell on top of each other.

Twice the Valar waged war because of elves, and they completely destroyed the world. They've stayed long enough in middle earth, elves should either fuck off back to Valinor or die.

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>>87001688
The movie doesn't exist without the source material so it doesn't have to stand on its own merit. Let me guess, you are a comic fan but only seen the movies?>>87001952

>>87005013
They were created by Morgoth.
While Men were created by Eru himself.

>>87005173
>muh books

>>87004305
he won though. LOTR marks the last of magic on earth and after it men ruled

>>87005297
Why were Sauman and Gandalf the last wizards around anyways?

>this whole thread
Orcposting is dead faggots

>>87005431
The others died

>>87005173
Morgoth can't create anything, that's why he's so angry. Eru created the Orcs as much as the Elves, he just did it through Morgoth.

>>87005431
they were gods agents (angles) sent to deal with Sauron

>>87005431
>Why were Sauman and Gandalf the last wizards around anyways?
Radagast was helping the Beornings or something IIRC. The Blue Wizards became enamored of the pleasures of Middle Earth and abandoned their task.

Sauron was the good guy trying to find a safe home for Orc migrants away from their volcanic wastelands, the white racists stopped him.

>>87001688
he had like 2 chances to repent fully

he never did; he preffered being "sauron the dread" "master of werewolves" etc

it fed his ego

>>87005434
LOOKS LIKE ORCPOSTING HAS BEEN TAKEN OFF OF THE MENU DUE TO COMPLAINTS FROM THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT BOYS

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>>87002014
>sauron is actually the hero
>the fellowship are the evil villains who defeat the forces of good

Was Tolkein ahead of his time?

epic dude.... im fukin shaking.. epic.

>>87005591
>he preffered being "sauron the dread" "master of werewolves" etc
never happend in the movies

>>87005666
Meanwhile ASoIaF is literally Dany and friends versus the evil snow zombies. GRRM is a hack.

>>87005874
How can you blame GRRM for showmakers fucking up?

Sauron is asshole why Gandalf hate?

>>87005841
Even if you're solely going by the movies, why would Sauron send his armed thugs to take the Ring from Frodo by force if he was benevolent?

>>87005666
But what about the taxes?

>>87004772

yes.

>>87005972
I am not saying he was the nicest guy ever.
Just that he was your average feudal monarch and not any more evil than any other ruler.
The ring was his by right, also it contained most of his power and the only way to kill him. No wonder he would be pretty desperate to get it back

>>87005431
Radagast was too preoccupied with helping the animals of middle earth and probably nursed a rat back to health during the entirety of the Lotr saga. Blue wizard went east. Probably did something but who knows what, maybe they failed.

>>87006238
Well he did also create the One Ring so he could dominate and control all the other rings of power. That doesn't seem very cool.

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Another thing, have you noticed how many orcs have hideous scars or disfigurements, while men and elves all look healthy and pretty?
It seems to imply that orcs actually take care of their wounded comerades, while men and elves kill everybody who isn't perfect.

>>87006340
According to Galadriel, who is an (((((Elf))))) and a ring bearer, so she is hardly a reliable narrator.

>>87006394
I don't man. I would probably take my chances and trust the one that lives in a beautiful forest kingdom rather than a big spooky castle in the middle of a barren volcanic wasteland.

>>87006485
don't know*

>>87005666
LOTR had no grey characters everyone was either good or evil.

>>87005972
>Even if you're solely going by the movies, why would Sauron send his armed thugs to take the Ring from Frodo by force if he was benevolent?
Frodo inherited the ring from a man who stole it from an honest salvager. The Ring is rightfully either Gollum's or Sauron's property.

>>87006485
That's how the (((((Elves))))) operate, everybody thinks "wow, they are so pretty, they cant be evil". Also, for a short time, we saw Galadriels true face and know that she is not so super nice either.

>>87006565
Boromir? Gollum? Denethor? Pippin?

>>87001952
War is god.

>>87005874
GRRM doesn't write HBO's Game of Thrones.

>>87006140
Sauron runs the smallest flat tax he can and still manage his government.

>>87006588
>honest salvager
Smeagol killed his friend to get the Ring

>>87006651
It was self defense. Deagol would have killed him just as readily.

>>87006588
Deagol was an honest salvager. Smeagol murdered him and took the Ring.

>>87006686
But that really doesn't make him and "honest salvager" now does it?

>>87006591
Still, what motivation would I, a simple peasant have to side with Sauron? His orcs raided and burned my village for supplies.

>>87001688
The only thing he did was stand up to racist and patriarchal Gondorians and Rohirrim.

>>87006485
Mordor is only a shithole because the elves constantly wage war against Sauron and deliberately prohibit any normal diplomacy between orcs and men to take place. If Sauron had as much opportunities as them, his realm would flourish, but the greedy warmongers want to keep him down because they are afraid of loosing their influence.

>>87001688
Why didn't he wear that ring around his cock?

>>87006774
It's a rough business.

>>87006855
I don't think this is true. We see in Saurons troops orcs and men working together. Only under his rule orcs and men can live in peace.

>>87006998
Why didn't he turn invisible for stealth assasinations?

>>87007211
But what about the scene in the second movie where they're shown pillaging and burning the village? Those could've been Saruman's forces but either way I wouldn't trust orcs after that.

>>87006322
Some people think that they may have helped spur the easterlings to join the war for Sauron. Some people think they may have worked to reduce the threat from the east. Maybe they failed an died though. There are tons of "theories" floating around.

A friendly reminder that only the men of Harad thought to the last after the Ring got btfo.

>>87007358
>thought
fought ayyy

>>87006238
The power to enslave other rulers, which is inherently and evil task. He created the ring for that purpose. He didn't need to create it, and didn't need to create it with that in mind, but he did. He's evil.

>>87006340
actually the whole point of the ring is non expendable power

morgoth summoned armies of balrogs, billions of orcs, dragons and shit and his power waned and he was defeated in the end

sauron knew this so he thought to bind his own soul in the ring which is eternal so he can keep spamming orcs forever

that is if the ring stays on his hand lel

>>87007358
fucking niggers

>>87007514
The private central banking system also provides a means to enslave other rulers. Would you call the Rotschilds inherently evil too?

>>87007655
>banks
>not evil

Are you stupid?

>>87007655
>Would you call the Rotschilds inherently evil too?

Yes, definitely.

>>87007217
Why didn't he turn his cock invisible for stealth dickings?

The first 10 minutes of Fellowship clearly explain that he gave out magic rings to important people of all the races, and then made The One Ring in order to bend all those people to his own will.
How is that not evil?

>>87006974
The elves haven't waged war on Mordor in thousands of years. Mordor is a shithole because Sauron is evil; in Tolkien's world, a leader influences his territory. Sauron being corrupted and evil leads to Morder becoming a barren wasteland.

I hope you realize the people saying he wasn't evil are memeing

>>87007311
this is the sad reality of medieval warefare.
All troops kill and pillage

>>87008082
Thats elven propaganda

Answer me this fellows:

What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?

>>87008543
I love that everything GRRM says is instantly invalidated because he's a lazy fatass.

>>87007741
>>87007749
Antisemitism is not tolerated on this board

>>87002827
Wait then what was that "moaning" from when Saruman was going to his orc pits?

>>87001801
fpbp
this is pure heresy

>>87001688
How does he take on/off the ring?
nevermind that, how did he get on the ring in the first place above the finger-armor? did he forge the ring around his finger-armor?
so many questions so few eagles

>>87001688
>Sauron was evil
>literally believing Gondor black propaganda

good goy

>>87001688
What the hell would Sauron even if he won? The vast majority of fantasy settings never give an idea to that (except Warhammer).

>>87001688
His lands was shit, and he tried to spread his shit, what's his tax policy huh?

>>87013201
What do you guys think Sauron's tax policy would be?

>>87013201
Lots and lots of steel mills. He's gonna get Middle Earth back to work.

>>87013271
Nurn was actually very fertile. Don't take Gorgoroth for all of Sauron's territory.

>>87013271
>>87013283
What would he need a tax policy for? His ambitions are the same as Morgoth, create a better song than Eru but his song is utterly corrupt and one that would ultimately collapse upon itself.

If Sauron won, I would expect the lotr gods to wage war against him with Gandalf being rezzed again to continue the fight.

>>87001801
Some men just want to watch the world burn

>>87013396
>If Sauron won, I would expect the lotr gods to wage war against him
They explicitly said they'd never ever do that again.

>>87008082
fake middle earth news

>>87002014
The orcs are scum who should be exterminated.

>>87002014
>>87002120
>>87004093
>>87004623
>>87004906
>>87005561
Have any of you read The Last Ringbearer?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ringbearer


>>87005921
Because that fucker is a lazy piece of shit who hasn't finished this series for over 20 fucking years. If he didn't want this to end up like this he shouldn't have sold the rights until he finished writing the series or at least should have finished the series by now. He doesn't give a fuck. He made his money and he will die leaving the series unfinished.

>>87013604
Fair enough, Sauron then tries to bring Morgoth back or gets greedy and decides to rules for himself.

>>87003158
>Tolkien never really decided a definitive origin for orcs.
He did, in the silmarillion it is explained how the orcs were created by Melkor by torturing elf prisoners

>>87003490
Don't forget about the "half-orcs" that are terrorising the shire when Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin return in the books.

>>87015160
>He did, in the silmarillion it is explained how the orcs were created by Melkor by torturing elf prisoners
He presumably meant J. R. R. Tolkien, not Christopher Tolkien. The Silmarillion wasn't finished. Christopher Tolkien assembled it from notes, some of which conflicted with each other. In personal correspondence Tolkien reveals he was never happy with how he used the orcs in the books and had trouble conceiving of a race of inherently evil beings. It was just not something he rectified during his lifetime.

>>87005963

Because Sauron is a bastard man!!

>>87001688
>forges the rings of power so he can rule the entire planet and corrupt everything

>>87001688
He literally wanted to BLACK the world

>>87001688
Why is he visible in this pic?

>>87016698
He has complete mastery of the ring so it only renders him invisible if he wants it to.

>>87001688
We'll never know, because that fucking hack Tolkien didn't disclose the details of Sauron's tax policy. We'll never know if it was better or worse than Aragorn's.

>>87002827
Wrong. They're corrupted elves from the first age that were twisted by morgoth. They're their own race for all intents and purposes.

>>87004921
No, it's one of those "le bad guys was actually good (or were they??)" type of articles.

>defending the leader of a bunch of ugly dark-skinned brutes literally spawned from mud vs. a bunch of white men and even whiter elves
I thought this board was redpilled.

>>87001688
Why didn't they explain him at all in the movies? I always thought he was bland till I read up on him

>>87018450
He's not really explained much in the books they were adapting. They were just being true to the source material. Despite being the title character, the Lord of the Rings is not about Sauron.

>>87008137
>Mordor is a shithole because Sauron is evil;
Mordor was actually a pretty nice place outside of gorgoroth, which is the bleak volcanic hellscape surrounding Mt. Doom. The area surrounding the sea of nurnen was actually very fertile farmlands tended to by slaves and overseen by the black numenoreans.

>>87001688

He wanted to kill all men.

Except the ones helping him? I guess

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>>87002963
that's racist, Anon. Orcs are a naturally peaceful race that is only goaded to war by the imperialistic exploitation of their homeland

>>87015345
>people go to fight a war against evil
>come back home to find it run by race-mixed degenerates
what did he mean with this?

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>>87001688
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ringbearer

>The Last Ringbearer is a 1999 fantasy book by Russian author Kirill Eskov. It is an alternative account of, and an informal sequel to, the events of J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings.

>The novel is based on the premise that the Tolkien account is a "history written by the victors". In Eskov's version of the story, Mordor is described as a peaceful country on the verge of an industrial revolution, that is a threat to the war-mongering and imperialistic faction represented by Gandalf (whose attitude has been described by Saruman as "crafting the Final Solution to the Mordorian problem") and the elves. For example, Barad-dûr, Sauron's citadel, is described in chapter 2 as "...that amazing city of alchemists and poets, mechanics and astronomers, philosophers and physicians, the heart of the only civilization in Middle-earth to bet on rational knowledge and bravely pitch its barely adolescent technology against ancient magic. The shining tower of the Barad-dûr citadel rose over the plains of Mordor almost as high as Orodruin like a monument to Man – free Man who had politely but firmly declined the guardianship of the Dwellers on High and started living by his own reason. It was a challenge to the bone-headed aggressive West, which was still picking lice in its log ‘castles’ to the monotonous chanting of scalds extolling the wonders of never-existing Númenor."

>>87018881

>The tale begins by recapping the War of the Ring. The Ring itself is a luxurious ornament, but powerless, crafted by the Nazgûl (a group of ancient scientists and philosophers who take turns as the Nine to guide Mordor through its industrialization) to distract Gandalf and the Elves while Mordor built up its army. Aragorn is portrayed as a puppet of the elves who has been instructed to usurp the throne of Gondor by murdering Boromir (who he had discovered alone after Merry and Pippin were captured) before Gandalf removes Denethor. Arwen, being 3000 years older, holds Aragorn in contempt but uses their marriage to cement Elvish rule over Gondor. Faramir has been exiled to Ithilien where he is kept under guard with Éowyn. The Elves have also corrupted the youth of Umbar, which they aim to use as a foothold into Harad and Khand.

>After defeating the Mordorian army, the Elves enter Mordor to massacre civilians with the help of Men from the East, supposedly to eliminate the "educated" classes. Two Orc soldiers ("Orc" being a slur used by the West against foreign men), Haladdin and Tzerlag, are fleeing the battle plain. They rescue Tangorn, a Gondorian noble who had been left buried in the desert for attempting to stop one of the massacres. They locate the mercenaries and kill the Elf, Eloar, taking his possessions.

>>87018929

>An elaborate plan is devised which involves the forging of a letter from Eloar by a Mordorian handwriting expert. Tangorn manages to arrange a meeting with the Elves in Umbar, while evading Gondor's efforts to eliminate him. He is eventually killed, which convinces the Elves to pass his message on to Eloar's mother, Eornis, a member of the ruling hierarchy of Lórien. She is led to believe that her son is captured rather than killed. A palantir is dropped into Lórien by a Mordorian researcher developing flight-based weapons (under the secret patronage of Aragorn), and Eornis is instructed to bring the palantír to Galadriel's Mirror. This is supposed to prove that she is in Lórien, whereupon she will be allowed to communicate with Eloar.

>At the appointed time, Haladdin brings another palantír to Mount Doom. Gandalf figures out his plan and, concerned that magic will be banished from Middle-Earth, casts a remote spell on the palantír to turn its user into stone, but this has no effect. Saruman, despite opposing Gandalf's methods, believes that Sharya-Rana's hypothesis about the relationship between the magical and physical worlds is incorrect and attempts to reason with Haladdin. However, Tzerlag touches the palantír by mistake and begins to turn into stone. In a bout of irrationality, Haladdin decides to drop the palantír into Orodruin because Saruman is unable to reverse Gandalf's spell. This causes the Eternal Fire to be transmitted to the other palantíri and the Mirror, destroying them and the magic of the Elves.

>Haladdin goes into self-imposed exile and Tzerlag's descendants pass on the story orally, although the historical record officially contains Aragorn's version of events. Although despised by the Gondorian aristocracy, Aragorn finds favor with the people as his policies result in an "economic miracle" and after his death, childless, the throne reverts to the "rightful" king Faramir.

>>87018715
When Tolkien came back from fighting in WW1 the swarthy dockworkers from the colonies were rioting in several big cities,.

>>87019022
Plus he was around when it was still an empire. Smug racial superiority is just a trait of the times.

>>87003041
kek

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>>87001688
Kek he wasn't

>>87001801
I do that desu.

>>87004790
>>87004906
this is why I came to 4chan

>>87001801
There's nothing wrong with this you FUCKING FAGGOT