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So... my US company got bought by a Japanese Company a year ago.

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So... my US company got bought by a Japanese Company a year ago. And now they plan to copy part of the engineering department there and they are asking for people to go there and start things. They already sent people from there here to get trained but they need more people with experience and since I'm the only one from the engineering department that actually knows Japanese (well, got a JLPT Level 4 approved and thinking on taking the level 3) they asked me if i wanted to move there for good.
In the beginning i was like "where do i sign?" but then it hit me "How is it to work there?". And since the only reference that i have is from some anime series, i wanted to know more.

In summary:

1-> How is the office work environment in Japan?
2-> How different from the US?
3-> What should i take into account before i start?
4-> From i was told i will have people working for me, what's like the boss-employee relationship there? I have people here, but i don't know what are the "do"s and "don't"s there.
5-> Holidays? Sick days?

Any help is appreciated.
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have studied abroad in japan, so only from what I've heard:

> it's shit if you are at the lower end of the food chain
> you have to get to work really early
> you have to stay until your boss goes home

but since you start there in a higher position maybe you won't have those problems

I'd say go for it. I want to move to japan again too. Going for JLPT 3 this december. Good Luck!
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(part 1)

> How is the office work environment in Japan?
You WILL work overtime, unpaid, every-fucking-day. That means you have to show up at least 20 minutes early, stay for your normal 8-9 hours, then stay until around 9 at night. Yes, that mean you'll get home around 10. Yes, that means you'll have almost no time for the vidya or 4chan.

> How different from the US?
I am going to assume you mean the work environment. From what I can tell (I work teaching English in public schools, for what that's worth) it’s a lot more busy work than actual work. Normally, when you want to do something in Japan, you have to talk with your coworkers, hymn and haw over it for a few hours, days, or weeks (depending on how big a thing they’re working on). Before you know it, the Japanese will do the work in a quarter of the time you though it would take. “Hey, a quarter of the time, great!” you may think. No, no, first you will debate over shit that has nothing to do with the work at hand, then they’ll just start work on different shit. THEN, without bringing you into the loop, they’ll do it. Whereas in the US, we’d just start working on the damn thing and have it done before the Japanese.
In short, be prepared for everything to move at a much different, maybe even slower, pace than what you’re used to.
> What should i take into account before i start?
Moving expenses and finding a place to stay. Know that Japanese landwords are still very xenophobic, so be prepared to have many of them deny you solely on the fact that you are non-Japanese. Also, moving into a new place is expensive (a few months’ rent up front, safety deposit, renter’s insurance, key money, and bullshit “thanks-for-letting-me-rent” money).
The closer you live to an apartment, the more expensive it’ll be (more so in the big cities like Tokyo and Osaka). Either way, you’ll get bent over a truck stop men’s room sink and take it Liberace style.
(part 2)

> From i was told i will have people working for me, what's like the boss-employee relationship there? I have people here, but i don't know what are the "do"s and "don't"s there.
Shit’s too complicated for my broke-ass 4chan post. To put it in short, the higher up you are the more respect you’ll command from people. At work, this means that other people will not make a move until you say so. People will come to you and have you approve EVERYTHING. Hey boss, can we change this thing in the (whatever the fuck it is you work on)? Hey boss, can we have our year end party at this place? Hey boss, can we move the fucking potted plants over to the other side of the room. Yes, it will seem like they’re just asking you shit to see if they can trip you up, but the boss has the final say in most things in Japan.
That being said, Japanese culture is such that no one says what they really think straight out. They are very indirect. To most Westerners, that’s confusing and frustraiting. Why take 50 words to tell me “no?” Yes, that gets old after a while, but if you live here, you’ll have to learn to put up with it.
> Holidays? Sick days?
By law, they’re required to offer sick days, but no one takes them. If you do use them, you’ll be seen as less than totally devoted to your work (and by that extant, your coworkers). When you come back from a sick day, you’ll be expected to apologize for your absence to your direct coworkers.
Everyone else has to endure the suck and stay at work for 12-hours a day, so how are you any different? Shit, I wish I was joking with that last one, but I’m not.
As for holidays, you’ll get national days off (Ocean day, the Emperor’s birthday, and Golden week). Most people have these days off. Aside from that, not much else.
(Part 3, where I reveal how much of a shithead I am)

If I can give you any advice, it’s this: Take the opportunity to work in Japan. Yes, what I wrote above makes it sound like you’re in a shit-filled boxcar headed to the glue factory, but working abroad is an experience that will make you stand head-and-shoulders above the rest.
Don’t stay in Japan “for good.” I can think of few reasons that you should. Instead, work here a few years then move back. You’ll find that companies will see your experience and skills from having worked abroad as a great asset you have to bring into the firm.
Aside from that, there are lots of blogs around taking about life and work in Japan. Read them, check out a few books from your public library about Japanese work culture, and see if it sounds like a good fit for you. Don’t fuck up your life.

You sir are a gentleman and a scholar. Thanks for the info. (And for the pics)

I must say that you scared me a little. I was expecting to be different, but not so much. I really need to read a little more about this before making my final decision, but probably i will take the deal.

Ohh, and one final question, how about salaries? Any idea on how much that goes? And how about asking for a raise? I searched on the net and got something around:

Electrical / Electronics Engineering:
Avg : 5,000,000 Y

And not very good reviews as working as a engineer there, like basically, you will be an slave unless you are a boss or something. But as i keep reading, it seems all jobs there are like that. Not very encouraging.
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Goddamn, I'm so glad my apathetic, impatient and lazy ass wasn't born in Japan.
you are not going to be able to do much with JLPT 4. how do you expect to manage anyone?

salary is pretty low as well.
Making my underlings speak in english with me?

Now, seriously, they told me that they will have japanese lessons there of all the people that wants to go, so that will not be a problem. And in the street, i think i can handle myself for most things., if not i will use the universal language of "the finger pointing" to talk with people.

>speaking english

lol good luck then. you won't be able to read, write or speak above what is essentially an elementary school level of japanese for a very long time. how much time do you think you will have to study when you are working 12 hour days?

do it for the experience if you must, but I think you are going to struggle with the language. you won't be able to read your mail, let alone organise a work environment.

also, mentioning anime in your OP doesn't bode well.

good luck!
>Knows Japanese
>Has only passed JLPT N4

These are mutually exclusive statements. I've pass N3 and still feel my Japanese is not good enough for a lot of things in Japan.
I thought I would post this because I think there is some truth to it, particularly that we (foriegners) just will never "get it". some people learn this lesson quickly, for others it takes years:

"And there’s another reason that eluded me for years. See, I used to think that Japanese people were always speaking English to me because

A: My Japanese wasn’t good enough, or
B: They wanted to practice their English

One of my roommates helped me understand C: They’d rather I don’t.

This was when I lived in a big house with a bunch of Japanese people and I was the only white guy. It’s a lot less great than it sounds. Well, maybe it doesn’t even sound that great. But anyway, I had this roommate, and every time I’d speak Japanese to him, he’d answer me in English.

“Konnichiwa,” I’d say.

“Hello,” he’d reply.

Oh, he was very annoying. So one day I just laid it out.

“Look,” I said, “I just want to be like everybody else in this house. We all speak Japanese. We’re in freaking Japan. You speak Japanese to everyone else, so why not me?”

And he hemmed and hawed for a bit, then finally blurted out, “Because it’s the only thing I can do better than you! You know, what else do I have?”

Of course, he said it in English, so that was kind of a dick thing, but I saw his point.

And then it dawned on me, the reality. With every salaryman that sat down next to me in a bar and started trying to have a conversation using childishly simple English punctuated with random bits of Japanese. He didn’t want me to be like him. Here he was, working sixteen hours a day, supporting a wife and child who didn’t even live in the same city, going home to a tiny box of an apartment, eating Cup Noodle every night, and now he’s going to accept me as “one of them”? Impossible."
part to from Ken seeroi:

"The thing is, you can live in Japan and almost never get this gaijin treatment, if you avoid the neighborhoods and stay in the city centers. People there don’t want to appear racist, so they don’t say what everybody’s thinking. Also, traveling with a Japanese person helps a great deal. They’re like an invisible force-field.

But go alone to where Japanese people live and congregate, and talk to a bunch of sixty and seventy year-olds? Hell, they don’t care. They’re gonna tell you exactly what they think. They’re honest, and they think you are absolutely not one of them, and you never will be.

I mean, what white person in their right mind would think they’re Japanese?"
part three:

Okay, let me tell you an easy trap to fall into. You know how you’ve heard all about what you should and shouldn’t do in Japan? You know: Don’t blow your nose in public. Don’t leave your chopsticks sticking out of your rice. Don’t smile in pictures. Do shower before you get in the bathtub. Do pass money with both hands. Do sneeze on the train without covering your mouth. There’s a million small rules that all Japanese people know and foreigners don’t. And they love to lecture you on them.

Well, there’s the trap. Because if you’re not careful, you’ll end up learning the rules, internalizing them, and behaving like a Japanese person. If you study Japanese, it’s even worse, because your language becomes the same. So while you’re thinking, behaving, speaking, and eating just like everybody else, you’re overlooking the glaring fact that you don’t look the same. In fact, you could be a Chinese-American from New Jersey and be treated more like a Japanese person, no matter what you did, simply because of the shape of your nose and eyes. I’m pretty sure African-American people know what I’m talking about here.

This isn't necessarily true, just a thought by one pathetic blogger dude wrote up, but it should give you something to think about if you are thinking about moving to glorious nippon.

Finally this is how your interactions are summed up in Japan:
Q: Say a Russian walks into a Japanese bar. Do they attempt to speak English with him?

A: Does he have a parrot on his shoulder? Because unless that parrot looks Japanese, he’s getting spoken to in English.
That said, JLPT score isnt a great indicator of functional conversational japanese. Just like TOEIC score for English isnt.

Ok, this is getting worse by the minute. But, i guess that treating you different because you are a foreign is to be expected. I still think that's a nice experience, but for a while, not forever. And besides, since in the company there will be a lot more people with the US i guess i'm not going to be that alone. Still, from what you all said, the faster i try to "merge" into society the better it will be, although i will never be one of them (not really sure i want to be actually).
>the faster i try to "merge" into society the better it will be, although i will never be one of them (not really sure i want to be actually).

There you go. That's your answer right there. If you're approaching Japan (or Korea, in my case) with that mindset, you're going to be just fine.
>C: They’d rather I don’t.
Is it really that bad? Only recently started to learn Japanese as a side hobby, no intention of moving to Japan. But are they really that against foreigners speaking Japanese?
First to answer your question about salaries in Japan. The starting salary for someone in Japan who just graduated from college is only about 2,000,000 yen per year. You can survive but its not the best. However, you get guaranteed raises every year. So after a while you end up making much better money. I imagine as you are transferring in you would get much more than that.

Also while I do in general agree with the guy that gave those three long posts I wouldn't say its true of company. If you work at one of the big Japanese companies then it will basically be like that. If its any kind of smaller company or one with many foreign workers then it is often much more like an American work place. In Japanese companies the general idea is that you get there on time and then leave when your boss does. Which is late cause he doesn't show up till like noon.

Moving can be expensive but there are many places, especially in Tokyo and other big cities where the idea of gift money is being left behind so you would be able to find someplace without spending a shit ton up front. It has never happened to me but I have heard of people being denied for not speaking Japanese. Japanese apartments are small but if you can deal with small you will be able to live in almost any part of any city at a very cheap price.

Adding onto the whole boss thing. Being the boss means you get a lot of respect but it also means that you are supposed to take care of the people under you. So things like taking them out to drink and you paying for it. Though if you aren't super high ranked there will probably be someone else there bigger than you who gets to pay.

I sometimes hear people talking about how everyone tries to speak English to them but pretty much everyone I encounter speaks Japanese to me. Sure there might be a few weird ones like that but there are way to many foreigners who go to Japan, and then when they realize that it isn't exactly like their home country in every way they get discourage and scream racism and then attribute what one person said to everybody in a country of 127,000,000 people.
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No problem. 5 million yen? After tax that should be enough to have a nice, comfortable middle-class lifestyle. Though, everything depends on how you spend it (like anywhere else in the world).

If you take the train to work (most places will pay for your train fare) and live somewhat frugally (plenty of blogs and web sites can help you with that) your take home pay should be enough for one person to live on. Also, if you do move, look into getting a tax assistant or consultant; they'll help you figure out your tax situation.

As for working like a slave since you're an EE, I have no idea. Like I said in my previous post, I'm your typical English teacher stuck in a dead end job. The plus side to that is that I can leave work "early" (read: on time), and not have to worry since I can't get ANY promotions or pay raises. You, since you're a professional, will have a different set to rules to abide by.

My advice would be to ask around your industry and talk to people who've worked in Japan. See what they have to say about the experience. But remember what >>893134 said about big versus small companies.

Hope that helps
So basically... learn the language but don't try to blend in because you won't. Also live in Tokyo or Osaka where people are more cosmopolitan? Hey you know what- there will also be people interested in you precisely because you are different. Frankly I have no intention of 'fitting in.'
>5 million yen? After tax that should be enough to have a nice, comfortable middle-class lifestyle.

Probably yes, but maybe no. It depends on the lifestyle you want and most especially where you live.

OP, I think these are major questions so I'm a bit surprised they haven't been asked yet -- where in Japan is the company? Do you intend to live in a western-style apartment (i.e., large) or are you willing to live in a typical Japanese rabbit hutch? How long are you willing to commute to/from work each day? What do you plan to do at night, or to otherwise occupy what little free time you'll have?
About overtime, I have no experience with office work, I worked in a factory. I did had overtime, I could not have if I wanted but I decided to do for the cash, it was all paid and it pays considerably more. Specially in the night hours.
The thing is overtime in Japan is considered a given and is not typically compensated the majority of the time. Some of my coworkers spend all night at work, go home at 6 AM to take a shower and change clothes and come back to work an hour later to begin the new day. They don't get one yen of overtime comp.
OP Here.

This company has facilities in a lot of places(and in a lot of countries actually). Because of that, i kind of have a lot of options to go (i really only need a computer and internet to do most of my work).
Options are(since the transfer will be only at the beginning of 2015, they are not really sure to were will i be going):

-Shikamachi, Nagasaki
-Higashine, Yamagata
-Kamisu, Ibaraki
-Toshima, Tokyo
-Nihonmatsu, Fukushima
-Osaka-shi, Osaka
-Niiza, Saitama

Don't really know much of most of then, besides what wikipedia says and some forums.

And i was planning to live in a western-style apartment. And i was thinking that up to 1 hour i'll have no problem commuting, but since this "obligatory overtime" thing appeared, i don't think that that much time will be good.

And to do at night, don't really know. Actually never thought of that. Don't really need much actually, never being the "going out a lot" type
I have heard of white people who managed to fit in. Like after living in Japan for many years to the point that people forget that they are foreigner. Not sure how it works or how uncommon it is.

For a US$50K income you'll pay around US$10K in Japanese taxes (local, prefectural, and national), plus another 12% in social security taxes. Your net income will be around US$34K.

I've never seen a "Western style" 1BD apartment here and I'm not sure if they exist. Anything that's going to be above 500 or 600 square feet is going to be a 2LDK place (2 bedrooms, plus living room, dining room, and kitchen); for a reasonable place you're looking at US$1200 per month (20% higher in Tokyo or Osaka). For this price you should be able to find something within a 30- to 45-minute commute from your work. I don't recommend longer commutes (especially in the big cities) unless your fetish is being squashed up against middle-aged Japanese men.

Don't forget that some Japanese landlords (in addition to being racist) are extortionate. It's not uncommon to have to pay 6+ month's rent up front before you move in (first month's rent, two month's rent as security deposit, two month's rent as "key" or gift money because fuck you, another month's rent as a fee to the real estate company if you used one, and then also a cleaning fee). This is something you should very much discuss with your company; you should also insist that they help you find a place and act as guarantor with the landlord (without a guarantor you won't be able to rent).

After rent (not including all the extras) you'll have about US$19,000 left.


A high-speed internet/cable TV/landline package will cost around US$100/month; add another US$50 (or more) per month for a smartphone. Utilities will run you around US$100/month, more if you have an air conditioner (and you'd better have an air conditioner in Honshu and Kyushu). Food, etc. bills (etc. = all the other shit you need to buy for the apartment, i.e. detergent, paper towels, dish soap, etc.) will run around US$150 per week.

Check whether or not your company will pay your travel expenses to/from work -- some do, some don't. If you have to pay these out of pocket it's probably going to cost you US$10/day or US$2,500 over the course of a year.

This all adds up to about US$11,000/year, leaving you with US$8,000/year to enjoy yourself.

Another thing that you should be asking your company about is the status of your transfer -- will you be an expatriate employee (they pay your airfare to/from, pay to move your stuff there and back, give you a plane ticket home every year, etc.) or will you be treated as a local employee?

One other thing to consider is that your Japanese co-workers will resent the hell out of you, especially as your Japanese is not that good. As an American/foreigner/transferred employee you'll jump quite a few steps up the social ladder WITHOUT HAVING DESERVED IT in their eyes -- don't underestimate the secret butthurt this will cause.
>I have heard of white people who managed to fit in
>Not sure how it works or how uncommon it is.

"Fitting in" is easy enough. You have a job, you pay taxes, you go out with your friends, etc. -- you're a normal member of society. But if you're not Japanese born and bred and grew up in Japan you will always be an outsider. Always. There are no exceptions to this rule, and anyone that thinks there are is merely fooling himself. If you are not Japanese the best you can hope for is that your presence is tolerated.
I think I found the source, maybe I saw something different somewhere but I found this, although it is more tongue in cheek than serious.

I think this thread highlights that while Japan is a pretty amazing country to visit and we all love our time there, the reality of actually living in Japan is much much different and not at all enjoyable.

Must be pretty sad to be Japanese, spending your entire life working/exhausted from work that you never actually get to appreciate or experience any of the positives in your country.

Japan is amazing to visit/study in but horrible to work in unless you can get a job with western work conditions.
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>more tongue in cheek than serious.

Yeah, I'm going to go with 100% tongue in cheek. The point, anyway, isn't what you consider yourself to be -- it's what the society around you considers you to be.

Thanks for the article, though -- I always wondered what happened to Ken-sama after he moved to grorious Nippon.


It's not all negative -- there are good points to living here, too. There are plenty of gaijin who will attest to it, and plenty of gaijin who have lived here 15+ years. But there are a lot of challenges, yes.

Though gaijin will never be considered as Japanese, this isn't always a negative thing. There's a lot of bullshit that you can avoid here by not being Japanese, as well as laws/customs/mores that you can skirt or just ignore. The fact is, as poorly as Japanese treat gaijin, they treat each other much, much worse. Weeaboo see the place as some sort of paradise, but for well over 50% of the local population it's anything but.
At least we got another image for jokes.

Jokes aside Sumo can be fun as a game, As long as you are not wearing that thing.
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>another image for jokes

This one (from the same article) is even better. Dat middle-aged man titty.
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OP as an american who transferred to another country. The best advice I can give you is bargain.

Do not settle for a "middle class" salary. If things are as you describe, it seems you will essentially be their administrator on the ground in japan.

You need to sell them on your experience in the company, and the fact that you will be more loyal to the american office than any japanese person.

This will be logical to them. Do real research on salaries. Do not listen to these faggots saying 5M jpy.




For this type of position 8M jpy seems to bee the average. Since you will be making big changes to your life and a lot of sacrifice (you need to make this a clear point) it would not seem unreasonable to me to push for 12M jpy (upper 75% average) initially and see where the bargaining lands.

You will probably walk out with a 10M jpy salary if you sell yourself well.

You have to make it clear that you ARE the man for the job and you WILL make their efforts a success. However if its a big change and sacrifice that you are willing to make for the company, and you hope that they will give a salary that will make this a realistic option for you.
Oh and that push, was assuming they made it clear you will be receiving full benefits and bonuses. If you company hasn't, make your initial push for 14M jpy.
>you will essentially be their administrator on the ground in japan.
>you will be more loyal to the american office than any japanese person

You're misreading the situation, anon. Have a look at the OP -- the Japanese company bought the American company, not vice-versa. They're basically looking to copy the US Engineering department of OP's company, hence the need to import US talent. While I agree OP can and should bargain, he isn't in quite the position of power you think he is (at least from his description). I think OP needs to settle this point, by (at the very least) telling us if he's moving as an expat employee or as a local hire. From his sparse description it kind of sounds like the latter, which isn't good at all.
OP's company really still seems to be making the decisions about who is going over and everything. However if they aren't then all he really has to do is sell him self to the japanese company.

> I know it all inside and out
> I have X years of experience
> I am the only person on the team with any experience speaking japanese
> I will ensure the success of JP companies goals and objectives.
1. they put in a lot more hours
2. very different. they make america seem like a third world county in most respects. They are intentionally leaving a few "advanced" nation mechanisms, such as welfare, out of the picture. To very good effects
3. isolation
4. the do's and don'ts are complicated and vary according to the industry. As a whole expect your younger employees to underperform compared to western standards, also expect that you will be unable to "discipline" employees to the same extent. Re-education is more common here, and underperforming employees are brought up to a standard, rather than ditched outright most times
5. don't expect to use more than a week of your yearly sick leave
>they make america seem like a third world county in most respects.

Ken-sama, is that you?

Sure, the US is 3rd world compared to Japan. Except for quality of life. Oh, and except for GDP (especially in terms of purchasing power). Um, and except for the US not being a political irrelevancy while Japan very much is. And, I guess we should consider prosperity, too -- where the US also blows Japan out of the water. In short, Ken-sama, your inner weeaboo is showing -- try to be a little more objective and accurate next time, OK?
Not that guy, but you seem pretty butthurt. The quality of life for the median American is pretty poor. Can you guys even get access to medical care yet or is that still a 'privilege'?. US GDP is decent, not good but decent, but when all of that wealth is in such an extreme minority does it really matter?
us mean purchasing power is pretty high. us MEDIAN purchasing power is rock bottom.

It's also the most dangerous first world nation on the planet not only in terms of homicide, but also in terms of civil unrest. cops shoot a single criminal and the nation explodes into riots.

It also has some of the worst public infrastructure out of any first world nation. There are second world countries with better public utilities and transport.

Oh, also median savings are among the lowest of first world nations. Also, working hours are among the highest to get that mediocre median income.

Oh, also math and reading are lower than many third world nations.

you're welcome. enjoy detroit/ferguson
OP Here

The transfer status will be a middle between those, since i will be treated in most cases as a local employee, but i will get all that you are saying (like plane tickets to come back once a year, travel expenses to go there with all my things and like 1 month in a hotel until i found someplace to stay).

I like those numbers. I was going for those ideas actually. Since it's a big chance, i have a lot of leverage of this.

And as >>893380 said, they are still making the decision of who will go, but since not many people want to go (only 2 of 15) and i'm the only one who knows something of japanese (although they did said that we will have on site japanese lessons, as in during work hours), i think that i have a very good chance.
>but you seem pretty butthurt

No, the anon I posted to seems "pretty butthurt" As do you.

>The quality of life for the median American is pretty poor.

Quality of life index places US second in the world, behind only Switzerland. Unless you're Swiss, the average American enjoys a better life than you do:


>US GDP is decent

If by "pretty decent" you mean in the top ten in the world, then yes.

>us MEDIAN purchasing power is rock bottom.

LOL, except for the inconvenient fact that it's the 4th highest in the world:


The rest of your post pretty much consists of your opinions, none of which are strictly accurate and all of which are tinged by what I'm guessing is quite a bit of jealousy.
LMAO this is like the second time I've seen this has happen.

OP, let's get back to reality, shall we? Make sure that you get everything in writing, and don't forget to have them continue to pay into your 401(k) or other retirement scheme while you're in Japan. You should not at all think you'll get any kind of retirement benefit from Japan!

On the leverage bit, use this as much as you can. >>893380 is right -- bargain as much as you can, but before doing so try to "put yourself into their shoes" as much as possible. Try to understand what their alternatives are; this should give you the best indication of how far you can push things. Good luck!

p.s. Make sure your company is willing to act as guarantor for you in renting an apartment here. If they are not you'll have to hire a guarantee company, which isn't easy and is (at least a month's rent) expensive. You can't rent in Japan without a guarantor.
us cost of annual family medical care bites into anywhere from 5-7k annually of disposable income.

Further, for all things other than petrol and energy, cost of living in metropolitan us cities outstrips those of europe and japan, even rent. the average rent paid in america is 1.5 to nearly double that in urban centers as what urban japanese or europeans pay.

Stop projecting. I moved from the us when my neighbor got shot (and killed) a man during a home breakin, and was charged with homicide, then driven out of town by "racial equality" brigades who called him a racist loony.

Oh, also the fact that our capital gains and inheritance taxes follow you worldwide.

I couldn't be happier to ditch that shithole of a country.

Where I'm at now taxes are half what they were in the u.s. and not a single fucking cent goes to single mothers, illegal immigrants, or drug addicts.

What's the matter, /pol/ overcrowded and you need to find new territory? A bit of lebensraum, perhaps?

>the average rent paid in america is 1.5 to nearly double that in urban centers as what urban japanese or europeans pay.

I'm on trv because I enjoy travel.

Believe it or not, there are openminded people who nonetheless despise criminals, welfare leeches, and drug dealers.

If you knew a single thing about zoning laws you'd realize that rental indexes are cheaper in europe, especially in germany, precisely because of their taxation policy and zoning laws.

Like the other poster said, I bet you think that healthcare and college education is cheaper in america too.

Christ, I'd hate to be your accountant.
What a fascinating thread (aside from the arguments about who's got the best country).

Are all East Asian countries like Japan when it comes to working conditions? How does Korea and Singapore compare, for instance?
>I'm on trv because I enjoy travel.

No, you're here because you enjoy spouting off your ignorant opinions and you think that nobody on /trv/ will call you on them.

>rental indexes are cheaper in europe, especially in germany

Average rent in the US is cheaper than that of 8 European countries and is roughly equal to that of France. German rents are indeed cheaper, although not hugely so; the benefit of lower rents is more than completely cancelled out by the higher cost of living in Germany:


>Christ, I'd hate to be your accountant.

I'd hate for you to be my accountant, too, seeing as you have so much trouble with basic arithmetic.

And that's it for me. This is not at all /trv/ related, and I've already wasted enough time on you.
koreans work harder than the japanese, marginally, but are more or less the same.

singaporeans vary, there are millionaires who work 70 hours a week, there are millionaire star financiers who do nothing. There are malaysian immigrants who work for less than four USD an hour, there are hourly employees who make a decent living. Singapore is a weird country. Your profession and how much money you have put you more or less very squarely into one class or another, because of its nature as a 1st world country on the cusp/surrounded by impoverished nations.

>no, you don't like travel
Okay, that's only why I speak three languages fluently, have dual citizenship, and have worked in four countries?

Yeah, I must hate travel. Travel? Yuck, take me to a strip mall, buy my mcdonalds, and call it a night. yee haw.

Whoa, numbeo. Hey guys, he pulled a number aggregator off the internet. Who all's impressed?

The fact of the matter is that low cost housing is vastly easier to find in any european country that isn't switzerland or scandinavia. Oh, and on top of that, the low cost housing in switzerland and scandinavia city centers is still cheaper than in some fucking US suburb with a 60 minute commute.

Try living abroad sometime and you'll find that internet sources don't really mean much
>koreans work harder than the japanese, marginally, but are more or less the same.

Honestly, do you pull everything you write straight out of your ass? It certainly seems so. Koreans work about 25% more hours p.a. than do Japanese:


As for the rest of your post, LOL -- anyone who believes anything you say is in need of serious help.
Japanese don't report the overtime that they work in those statistics. You really think Japanese are only average 33.3 hours per week? Go work in Japan for a year and then work in Iceland for a year and tell us all about how equal their work weeks are.

There's no reason to believe or assert that the Japanese over- or under-report their hours any more than anyone else does, including Koreans. You're just grasping at straws now -- admit you're wrong, learn from your mistakes, and move on.

You're either an idiot or an elaborate troll. This is the last time I'll reply to you and hope others do the same.
Sod off. I pretty much agree with >>893412 especially about this part:
>Where I'm at now taxes are half what they were in the u.s. and not a single fucking cent goes to single mothers, illegal immigrants, or drug addicts.

My taxes last year were 12% on $52K in income. As a result, I was able to put $25K into savings, and it would've been more if I hadn't gotten sick and had to pay for a bunch of medical stuff out of pocket.

Funny, though, even paying out of pocket for it, it was less than two months of my old "health insurance" premiums in the U.S., even before Obamacare fucked up the market and raised insurance premiums by 50%.

I don't know what planet you're living on, but here on Earth, apartments in decent parts of Chicago, NYC, SF, Seattle, and other major cities are insane. Meanwhile, I'm spending $600/month on a modern 700sf top floor apartment overlooking the ocean. You can suck on it, Amerifat.
>There's no reason to believe or assert that the Japanese over- or under-report their hours any more than anyone else does

Yes there is. I work I work in Japan (international publishing services for English textbooks). Japanese work long ass hours. It is a common part of company culture to come in earlier than the official start of the day and leave afterward. This time is unpaid and off the books but it is what it is-- time at work. 50-55 hours a week or so is what I would say is typical for Japan.

Being on time is late in Japan. Being early is being on time.

high school teacher here. a japanese colleague recently left work at 3pm so he could attend his mother's funeral and was back in the next morning. he made a grovelling speech with lots of bowing about being sorry for leaving early. also a guy last year who missed the birth of his first child.

it's unbelievable.
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