Women and /tg/

>>43467018
I haven;t had an rpg group that didn't have at least one woman.

The tabletop wargame scene around here is dead so I don't know who plays.

I have played with a few females in my DMing career. Probably like, 4 over the course of 10 years?

None ever lasted more than a few sessions, and most never made it to one. At least two were such miserable people the group refused to play if they were going to.

I've played with a few, but only two have proven to be reliable and long-term. Of the other four I've played with, one played an entire campaign and then didn't play any more because she wasn't interested in the subsequent games, three separate girls played for a few weeks and then stopped.

>>43467018
In the 90s they were nowhere to be found. In the 00s I played with one in the whole decade. In recent years I personally know and game with one 40k player who is a woman and three roleplayers who are women. I have seen more around the stores, but the men still outnumber them significantly.

Now get off my lawn you damn kids.

Most groups I've played with had at least 1 but more often 2-3 women (out of 4-6 players). All of them reliable, good players...

>>43467018
I don't play wargames, but there was only a single RPG I played without at least one woman in the group.
That one game fell apart after the first session.

I'm at the head of a RPG club in my Engineer School
We have two women in it, one is a player, the other is a gm

2 is one fifth of the number of girls in my shcool but still

>>43467193
This is a lie.

>>43467018
About half my ttrpg group are ladies, only one of whom joined us because her bf was gaming (she still plays even after he got a job that conflicts with dice time).
In local war games there's one mildly psychotic girl who plays Warmachine Hoardes.

I think every rpg game I've played since my teens has included at least one girl.

Boardgames generally seem to have plenty of girls. Don't remember the last time I played without one, but I'm sure it did happen.

CCGs I haven't played for years, but when I did, back in the twentieth century, it was all guys.

Wargaming seems to have far fewer women. I think I've met three female wargamers and they were all fairly casual. I don't think I've ever played a one on one match with one.

I've only played a single game with someone I've personally confirmed as a girl, but I've played several with people who said they were girls.
Such is online gaming.

Yes. In college, the DM of the group I found was a woman. There was also her girlfriend who was new to the game.

I didn't stick around for too long though. She honestly wasn't that great and I must've made four different characters before the campaign began, trying to make something that meshed with the tone of the setting and never managed to figure out what she wanted from me.

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Three of the four players in my weekly D&D group are women. It's a great group, we have lots of fun.

>>43467018
My sister plays RPGs but I've never played together with her so I don't know what she's like. Usually she just plays with groups of all girls.

>5 votes

I see we have 5 people on /tg/ who like to lie on the internet.

>>43467402
http://niceme.me/

>>43467455
>Everyone on the internet is telling the truth

>>43467469
>Everyone on the internet is telling lies

Most of the groups I have played with have a majority of women.

>>43467469
>Everyone on the internet is a liar.

Everyone on the internet is a complete fuckwad.

>>43467275
Not him but of the five gaming groups I've played with four had at least 3 girls in them

i have never played a single d20 game without atleast one female in the group. the majority of the time they are girlfriends or friends of the group who would not normally seek out /tg/ related things on their own but when confronted with the idea are genuinely interested. it is usually a low ratio but we have had as many as 6 female players in one campaign

>>43467018
Is there an answer for "I don't play anything, I just shitpost on tg"

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a friend of mine who's a girl was GMing for a group i didn't know anything about and i asked if i could join in and play a fluffy dog knight for no particular reason and she said yes

turns out the whole group consisted of women (i think 3?) and i was the only guy she invited because i was the only friend who asked to join

it got SUPER awkward fast because they started petting my hair IRL and pinching my cheeks and i couldn't do anything to stop them other than asking them to stop which resulted in more awkward physical contact that i didn't want

pic related, it's me

>>43467560
I think the important point is that most girls that get involved in nerd shit only arrive there through an appeal made because they have a relationship with someone who happens to tangentially know about the hobby.

If it were left to the actual population of gamers, women would never play because they superficially judge everything by the stereotype of the person they thing they're going to be subjected to.

And let's be real, when you have someone who's only willing to get into a hobby if they find the people they'll play with to be attractive, does not contribute anything to that hobby.

>>43467018

Yeah sure, in my current campaign actually. She's kinda new, but her thoughts on bringing a interesting character concept to life is right on spot.

.. Also a few years back, when I still did Warhammer, I played against a young girl (and I didnt lose, I swear).

RPGs and Wargames are mostly a place for fat and antisocial geeks in my experience tho.

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>>43467691

Am female. Surprisingly not the only one in my group either. Usually play RPGs but I've got a small IG army.

>>43467724

Oh shit, I forgot to mention the transgender-guy/girl I also play with... if that even counts..

>>43467752
pics of army? did you paint them?

>>43467691
Taking the bait. Lots of people get into things like RPGs because they know someone who plays, it's not just women.

>>43467727
I don't think you understand things.

I'm not saying I'm glad I never play with women, since I've already said I have.

I'm saying that the grand majority of them fall into the category of "playing the game because they were brought in by a boyfriend, but still looking down on the hobby and the people involved".

>>43467691
same train of thought as >>43467784
i started playing RPGs because i was kinda dragged to it by a friend, in fact that's how most things get around since nobody sits somewhere and suddenly gets hooked into a hobby you dense shit

>>43467769
No I bought them off ebay and came painted. My hands shake too much to paint anything. Lemme see if I can dig them out and take a picture, it's been awhile since I used them.

Does myself count?

I've zero other females in my D&D group, but 2 others in my VtM group. Guess it just depends on the system etc.

>>43467929
>No I bought them off ebay and came painted.

Oh fuck off.

My first ever tabletop RPG experience was Vampire the Masquerade, and a woman was the storyteller. We still play but she's too busy with college this time of the year to DM/Storytell.

2 to 3 regular chicks in my RPG and board game groups, none in my wargarming groups.

>Run an online group via Roll20/Skype
>This means 0 females, ever.
>I've run long, rather complex NPC interaction plots with guys, 90% of which involve them trying to win the affections of a female NPC.
>Just once in my life I'd like to roleplay a male NPC doing the same thing, just for variety.
>Even when the guys play chicks, they play lesbians.

I mean, it's not a huge part of DMing for me, not like something I'm dying to do, or that it makes the game not fun. But it would be a nice change of pace to actually have a girl last more than a session in a campaign. The last time I tried, she complained that she felt like she wasn't getting the spotlight enough. After one session.

>>43467018
Yes, fairly regularly over the last decade or so.
They're just players like any others really. At least proper nerdy girls are.

>>43467018

I have two girls in my current gaming group. Both are fine and haven't caused any trouble.

>>43468001
not to sound like a white knight but there's nothing wrong with not handpainting your units, specially if your hands shake or if you plain know shit-all about painting

i'm really bad at painting so i've always commissioned them to a friend

>>43467018
I´ve never played a Wargames besides a few matches online on specific platforms.

But i play and DM RPGs a lot, and yes, there were some girls in my games, not as much as guys, but yes, sometimes i´ve seen the,.

Shit, the first girl i have ever fell in love with was a girl i´ve known from RPG.

>>43468248
>specially if your hands shake or if you plain know shit-all about painting

My hands shake pretty severely sometimes. You know when they don't? When I'm holding a pencil or a brush.

You know what you do when you know shit-all about painting? You fucking learn.

I refuse to ever respect someone who has no interest in putting in effort. You make excuses, you deserve nothing.

>>43467018
Nope. Not by personal choice though.

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>>43468290

>>43467018
I've only RPed with two women. one was a girl who was an attention whore who didn't do anything useful and let her would-be boyfriend (who she strung along until finally telling him to fuck off) make every decision for her. I made her cry once, not even on purpose.

the second was an older woman who gamed with her husband. she was pretty cool.

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>>43468290
>"I want to play wargames, but I don't really have any interest in painting, what do I do?"
>FUCK OFF AND DIE CASUAL SCUM NORMIE

>>43468290
don't cut yourself on that edge, kid
also
>disabilities are excuses

>>43468364
Using disabilities as an excuse is, yes, an excuse.

>>43468290
>My hands shake pretty severely sometimes.

I have muscular dystrophy, my hands shake no matter what.

>>43467622
What kind of dog is that? Please respond

>>43468372
>Boss I can't do the handywork, I'm missing 6 fingers, this is why you appointed me as the supervisor
>Fuck off Johnson stop making excuses and get your ass to work

HaaH
WaaW

>>43467018
All the time.

I've been in RPG groups with anywhere from no women, to me being the only male at the table.

As far as wargaming, my best friend is the only one I really know who routinely plays, she runs Orks in 40k, but my pool of wargamers is extremely limited. I have seen others try, and enjoy wargames, but not get into them as a hobby.

>>43467018
Yeah, I've got a couple chicks in both games I play in/run. Funnily enough, both are usually really quiet most of the time, though that may just be because all of the other players are really chatty.

Solution to being bad at painting but wanting to play wargames: Play X-Wing. Minis come pre-painted.

>>43468290
you sound like a delight to play games with

>>43467018
>Have you ever played RPGs or Wargames with women?

Yes.

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>Player in a RPG, can't remember system.
>Somebody brings their sister because she was interested.
>Game starts off like normal, except guy's sister being there.
>Within 5 minutes, half of the group is making sex jokes involving guy's sister and her character.
>Wakemeupinside.png
>Guy's sister asks them to stop.
>They make even more jokes.
>Can'twakeup.gif
>DM calls the session there.
>Guy's sister never showed up again.
The worst part? Guy was making more than half of the jokes. I've never seen anybody that uncomfortable since, and it's been a few years.

>Have you ever played RPGs or Wargames with women?
A couple. One of them would basically throw a fit whenever it looked like she was losing. The other is cool, though.

>>43468523
Similar situation happened with a group I was in once. A girl who hadn't played much before joined our group, and one of the guys there was /r9k/ incarnate and behaved like a complete asshole to her. She never came back.

>>43467154
I always tell this little fun story: when RPGs came to Italy in the late '80s, there were more girls playing than boys, because they were marketed to the reader's public, and were almost indie stuff. Then in the 90s the big names got translated and the turnover resulted in the mass of awkward nerds taking their place.

>>43468523
So let me get this straight:

>Dude plays a character
>People make jokes about his character being gay, liking little kids, not being able to get it up, fucking prostitutes, whatever you want. Demeaning jokes all day.
>Dude is able to shrug it off or return the banter.

>Chick plays a character.
>People make jokes about that character being sexy, seducing guys for the group's benefit, etc.
>OMG NO WE HAVE TO MAKE THIS AN INCLUSIVE AND WELCOMING ENVIRONMENT OR SHE WON'T WANT TO PLAY GAMES EVER

Why cater to people with thin skin? If the group dynamic is banter and demeaning jokes, and that's part of their cohesiveness, why fuck that over for someone who clearly can not fit in?

>>43467018
I'm female and have two gaming groups. My own group are all women and include my gf. We play war games (old not collectible) like cry havoc or battle tech or whatever. My other group is pathfinder. Our GM is not quite any gender but feminine leaning. There are 3 total guys though only 2 are present at any time. There are 5 women including myself but dis including the GM.

The LGS is a completely different story. The "serious" lgs here is 99% dudes. The lgs with all the tcg support is mostly dudes with the occasional girlfriend. Maybe 5%-10% magic players are women. That includes me and the gf if we're playing edh which is super rare.

The further I get away from collectible shit the more women there suddenly are. My old VtM group were exactly half female.

>>43467062
Same here. I regularly have mixed groups, and even though I've met my share of drag-along GFs, I've also had quite a number of decent players.

I don't play wargames but looking at the FLGS scene girls don't play those. However there's always four or five girls at Magic events, and the board game nights are evenly mixed.

Yeah, a girl introduced me to rpgs actually

>>43468694
you can say the same about most elements of nerd culture around the world honestly, comics for example were marketed towards teenage girls in their beginnings, same with tabletop

hell, even videogames were more popular with women in the 70s-80s, my mother was the one who got me into videogames, for example

>>43468730
>Our GM is not quite any gender but feminine leaning.
are they cute

I played an online (over skype) oWoD Mage game where I was the only dude.

The plot was interesting, the encounters were fun, and there was a lot of good character development/interactions from everyone. The GM's girlfriend could get a little bit rules spergy, but the only time it actually started to be grating, the GM laid down the law without fighting or making things awkward for everyone.

Unfortunately, the GM was trying to pull off something she thought would be interesting and fun for us, but it wound up DRASTICALLY shifting the plot at a moment where our characters were all at a major personal crossroads. It left us all extremely disoriented and disinterested, and pretty much killed the game dead in its tracks.

None of us players were really mad at her, just extremely disappointing. It certainly wasn't malicious, I just think she was overreaching. I'm still upset I never got to see that one through.

It feels to report on this, like it's somehow noteworthy. Uh.

There was one girl I played with while we were both players who just literally just played some side character from a fantasy anime, something pretty old. I'd have called her character an "expy" or something but that was literally the pitch, so. It was kind of annoying because the character was genki as all hell and she put on a voice for it like the one from the dub and I don't think I need to describe any more, to be honest, you've probably already got it.. It would have shot the tone to death but to be honest it was already pretty wacky before she got there. The campaign fell apart only one or two sessions in, though.

Currently, I have one girl in my group, who so far has been a pretty passive player. She says she's enjoying it, though. We've had, I don't know, probably a little fewer than ten sessions so far? She's gotten most excited so far by this one part early in the game when a party member tamed some wolves and I described them being friendly and wagging their tails and things, so I guess she really likes dogs. No idea how I ought to integrate that into the game, though.

>>43468710
Sex jokes never came up until guy's sister came around, and the session never got off the ground because people would interrupt the DM to shout something about her character getting raped by horse dicks. It also made half the people there uncomfortable. Besides, DM back then made it pretty clear it wasn't that type of group.

>>43468845
>It feels to report on this, like it's somehow noteworthy. Uh.
it isn't, it's a normal thing, and that's exactly what i was trying to prove to someone

>>43468710
>someone is clearly uncomfortable
>"hurr durr stop having such a thin skin"

Yeah, you're kind of an asshole.

>>43468922
It's fine that they're uncomfortable, but why would they deserve things to change on their account?

>>43468710
>So, let me get this straight:
>completely fails to comprehend
classic

>>43468710
see >>43466495

>>43467018
My last RPG group was 3 women and 3 men (including the QM).

Nothing unusual happened. It was a fun game, nobody did or said anything creepy, and we had a good time. There were always snacks and bevs available, and neither of those things became an issue.

>Play 3.5 years ago, randumb dungeons, not much in the way of plot or anything, but we were good enough friends, it was okay.
>Friend of a friend of a friend joins.
>Calls self FtM trans five minutes in, nobody cares.
>Plays alright, knows the rules, jokes around, acts in-character a bit and stuff.
>Insists on targeting male NPC's dicks everytime it's possible.
>Shows up somewhat drunk on her third or fourth session with us.
>Obviously tries to get her character killed, GM fudges a bit and eventually gives up, lets her kill her char.
>Gets up, says "That was great, thanks. Good night guys." and leaves, never see her again.
OK.

>>43468755
>comics for example were marketed towards teenage girls in their beginnings, same with tabletop
>even videogames were more popular with women in the 70s-80s
I gotta wonder, just... why did this change in the first place?

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In last 25 years I have seen all kinds of girl gamers and GMs.

giggly middleschoolers, minmaxer, roleplayer who joked about coming to ruin our hack n slash, dice cheater, merciless tactician, GM´s gf who bitched until GM let her fireball everything while being totaly safe from any harm

Girls arent that different players when they get familiar with people and ruleset

>>43469020
Nerds and manchildren got ahold of them and drove away all the regular functional people, tainting the hobbies for decades to come.

>>43469020
>I gotta wonder, just... why did this change in the first place?

Marketing, I guess. At some point someone figured out that you could sell more if you sold an identity ("nerd culture") instead of just a product.

>>43468946
Basic human decency? Why should THEY change so YOU can keep being an asshole?

Currently I have two girls in my group I DM and we are convincing a third to give it a whirl. We have more girls than guys lol.

>>43469074
So your argument for why a group should change to accommodate one person, is that the one person shouldn't have to change if they want to be part of a group?

My entire group is women. They play well and know how to have fun, but their characters all have at least one dead parent.

>>43469074
Neither side should change, they should just realize that they don't belong in the same group together.

>>43469101
>They play well and know how to have fun, but their characters all have at least one dead parent.

So exactly the same as every other player ever.

>>43469069
>At some point someone figured out that you could sell more if you sold an identity ("nerd culture") instead of just a product.
But isn't "nerd culture" as anything to be emulated a new thing? I mean, when D&D was out and around, marketing had nothing to do with "nerd culture." Nerds were stigmatized back then.
>>43469057
I'm almost tempted to accept this.
But for D&D and the like, it doesn't make any sense. Why would nerds and manchildren flock to a social hobby like D&D? Was it because of the fantasy/escapism angle?

It's a mystery

>>43469074
That cuts both ways.

>>43469122
More or less. They've only had a few major issues with understanding how feudalism works and an issue with a That Guy.

>>43467154
in the 90's they were playing VtM

>>43469020
I have no idea, I'm no expert in nerd history, it's just a fact i've known for a couple of years

at one point it completely flipped social and market-wise and stopped being unisex hobbies in order to be filled to the brim with neckbeards who get defensive when women try to take part of said hobbies

maybe after a while women in general stopped trying to care since the entry to "nerd culture" is filled with guys who try to find ways to invalidate their nerdiness, which doesn't happen at all with men and i find it completely surreal

i personally know shitfuck about most things, even the hobbies and activities i'm interested and spend time in, while some girls i know can give me a comprehensive and extensive guide of the marvel universe and their iterations while i sit there in silence, yet she's constantly being inquired in order to find the smallest error in her train of thought while i just sit there and everyone assumes i know what they're talking about

i'll never understand where the "girls don't play videogames/read comics/play tabletop/know about nerd culture" meme

>>43467727
I've always wondered why the asshole didn't just go get a stick.

>>43469069
"Nerd culture" came about long after the things that it claims to encompass. The fat guy sitting in his parent's basement tinkering with old computer parts, playing games, and collecting toys is older than any recognition of "culture" associated with those things.

>>43469095
No, my argument is that you shouldn't bully people. If someone is clearly uncomfortable because you're continuously picking on them? Stop doing that shit, asshole.

>>43469095
It honestly sounds to me like the group WAS changing, just not to accommodate the player in question here: as in, it was treating her character as one unlike the rest of the group. This is supported by >>43468864. Gender aside, it's kind of a really fucking douchebag thing to do to treat somebody as the odd player out like that, like if your entire group insists on not explaining the in-jokes you've accumulated through the campaign so far or something. That's just fucking rude.

>>43468408
I'd get pretty pissed if someone was promoted over me because he was handicapped desu.

>>43469137
I think it had something to do with the influence of fantasy novels, and the fact that dungeon crawling video games didn't exist yet, which gave the experience they really wanted, and D&D was the closest thing at the time.

>>43469179
foxes don't have thumbs

>>43469137
Nerds and manchildren started D&D in the first place. It was literally an extension of an old wargame called Chainmail. and "normal" people avoided it like the plague.

>>43468730
So you tumblrettes basically make your own containment groups? That's surprisingly sensible and merciful of you.

>>43469137
>But isn't "nerd culture" as anything to be emulated a new thing? I mean, when D&D was out and around, marketing had nothing to do with "nerd culture." Nerds were stigmatized back then.

I don't mean "nerd culture" in the modern sense, like BBT and superhero tees sold in every store. What I'm trying to say is that the very beginnings of the culture came in an independent way and took root where they could; then, as the market expanded, the marketers played on the identification of a customer niche. It's a self-reinforcing thing, I guess. A lot of "genre" stuff is, or at least has been, marketed mostly to boys, and often by playing the wish-fulfilment card. The niche is created by the sellers as much as by the customers.

>>43469256
But what's the explanation for stuff that was marketed at girls first, like what the other anon said happened in Italy?

>>43467018
>no herm option
Triggered.

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>>43467018

Male here.

Had my GF join my short-lived DnD group and she loved it. Absolute best RPer out of the bunch and other players actually complained when her character was absent. Now she regularly pesters me to run one on one sessions with her in different settings and I'll probably grant her wish this December.

There was another girl there though, who struggled with shyness and had difficulty participating because she was horrendously afraid she would "screw things up" no matter how many times I encouraged her. It got to a point where I kind of wished she would bring her extrovert boyfriend along, just to bolster her morale.

Personal opinion:

I did feel the women brought things to the table that the men didn't and vice versa. On the whole, they committed more to characters than the rules and didn't obsess over "winning". The men gravitated towards exploring how they could use the system to their advantage and sometimes broke character to do so.

Opinion on my opinion:

Everything I just said is anecdotal. I've played with enough groups now to know that the main thing is having a group that's comfortable with its members, regardless of gender. Male or female, the main thing is to avoid individuals who are disruptive in some way, be it overacting, starting arguments with the DM, or just not paying attention. Both sexes fucking love the wish fulfillment that gaming can provide but sometimes approach it from different angles.

>>43468755
>same with tabletop

Are you kidding? Tabletop wargames were invented by soldiers to simulate battles. And later on were seen as a hobby for boys/men.

>>43468755
Same. Girl here and my mom gave me a nes when I was 4. My sister grew up playing n64. When our new stepsister moved in she brought a dream cast. My entire 90s-00s experience was that it's a fact that gaming is non gendered. I didn't live with my sisters but it was a big impression. This only "changed" post-hoc after high school when it seems people were either revisionist or the marketing of Xbox finally pushed men to the front. I also remember my dad playing battle masters, star fleet battles and hero quest with me as a kid. He bought me lionheart since I was obsessed with his war games.

>>43468790
imo yes. They also has a crush on me.

>>43469283
Ask the Italian marketers.
It might have been "girls first" in Italy, but it was well into "boys first" everywhere else at that point.

>>43469283
That was still me. The thing is, at the very beginning of the RPG industry here, it was all about fanzines and small publishers doing unauthorized translations. The first RPG books were spread by word-of-mouth, or printed by small publishers, that usually had other primary focuses. So the circles in which RPGs started spreading were already mixed, at least.
The big name publishers and distributors came later, and had totally different target markets.

>>43467018

I regularly play RPGs with women. I know at least one who war games but I don't wargame with her cause we're geographically seperated.

>>43469324
But if marketing had such an important role, then wouldn't we see that? Wouldn't we see Italy as some kind of outlier, with a larger female base than anywhere else?
Is this data anybody has, or even cares to gather?

>>43468979
I read this as Quantum Mistress then realized your statement implies your GM is "3 women and 3 men". Thanks anon I needed that lol to start my day

>>43469399
Not really. >>43469366 is right. It started small and weird and then the "real" publishers moved in and brought their targeted marketing with them.

>>43469399
>But if marketing had such an important role, then wouldn't we see that? Wouldn't we see Italy as some kind of outlier, with a larger female base than anywhere else?
>Is this data anybody has, or even cares to gather?

Oh, I don't think so. We're talking about a niche market from 30 years ago. And in the course of a decade we fell back to the same models of everywhere else.

>>43469232
You are why we can't have women in gaming.

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I've played RPGs with women, they were good players, wrong, it is more accurate to say that they were normal players that did things expected of players that included both good and bad decisions and playing as expected

However, I'll share a story with you of what happened to me last friday, and sorry this won't be brief

I started playing D&D5ed with a group of people from my uni recently. They aren't the best people I've played with and I'm the one putting the most effort into character interpretation but the games are fun and we all have a good time. There are a couple of girls playing now and them and they are decent/normal, but last friday the session became excruciating. Two girls came new to the group and they were asked if they wanted to try roleplaying, I should have known this was going to be bad when they said "Oh, is that what sheldon and the others did in big bang theory?" revealing them to be fans of the show. It started when they refused to play with pre-made characters of the GM and insisted on making their own, which isn't a good idea for newcomers (and because we wanted to start the game without much delay, not to mention there was a high chance of both of them never appearing again). One girl, let's call her 2, was more quiet and it didn't take long to finish her character sheet for her rogue, at least after how long they both spent thinking what race they wanted to be (tieflings, both of them) but girl 1, after she said she wanted to bash baddies and I suggested her to make a fighter (mainly because it's the perfect class for beginners) she wanted to be a druid, bitch class to make the character sheet (we are all at lv 3) and we had to spend 2 hours and half waiting for her and the GM to finish the character

>cont.

>>43467018
I've only played with four women in my whole rpg career and they were all very decent players though two of them were rather shy and quiet. One of them is probably the best player and DM I've ever played with.

Yes, I was totally smitten but I was 15 and she was 20 when we first met

>>43467018
Ive had about 2 random girls join my games that were cool, but Ive had so many girlfriends of players join that were so awful.

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>>43467277
>Hoardes

My group is mostly female. Probably a statistical anomaly.

My group and me are disgusting beta permavirgins, we have no women in our group and we rarely interact with women outside the game.

I can't tell if
>That Guy
or a /tg/ rendition of
>Goobergate

>>43469796
Why did you
>put
random words
>in greentext

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>>43469562
But the fucking best is that after all of that none of them had though of even the name of their characters or a simple story or any of that shit like their personality even when we helped them with ideas of how the world is and what is spected of druids and rogues to do and their mentality. They couldn't grasp a concept as simple as alignment, so they played it with zero interpretation and ruining the atmosphere doing meta rol when we finally got to play

And to summarize, they were fucking terrible, girl 1 kept doing stupid things against what we all had agreed (something like "an enemy is coming, let's all get inside") only to get some sense of individuality and be original, or from what I could see, to get attention (GM:"so you all go inside the inn?" "No! I'm staying outside") however, when it actually came to making decisions she was indecisive and had no clue what to do, and not about things like the game mechanics but common sense ("I approach the fruit vendor to talk" GM:"And what do you say to her?" "..." she spent like ten minutes arguing with girl 2 about what to do and who should talk to a fucking fruit vendor that was utterly irrelevant in the first place). Girl 2 wasn't as stupid, but because she kept getting dragged around by 1 her lack of decision making made the game even slower.
At the end, because of the continuous stupid decisions of 1 to be original, she ended up getting killed by a werewolf while we were watching from inside a guarded inn, throwing away those 2 and half hour of character making in only one.
At this point you might say "hey, they were newbies, it's understandable" but that's bullshit because that same session had a new guy that have never even touched the concept of role playing games getting into it, he got a pre-made character (dwarf barbarian), made good decisions, accepted the help of the veteran players and he did some crude (but funny and nice) roleplaying while having a good time, so being new is no excuse.

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>>43469833
in a summary, roleplaying is like driving. A lot of people say women are worst at it.
It doesn't mean that all women are bad drivers and there is certainly a lot of bad male drivers, but the fuck ups that male and female do are identifiable and different.
"that guy" is a fucking pain in the ass to play with, but because I never encountered one I don't know if it would be worse to one "that girl"

>>43469026
Amazing how the reasonable posts in the thread are completely overlooked, but the idiots screaming rape and hurr durring their way into idiotic retard territory gets all the attention. There's something really wrong with the human mindset.

>>43469895
Well, it's easier to argue about the controversial posts. "Hey, I played with a girl and she was okay" "Yeah... it's good that you had fun." What more is there to say about that?

>>43469950
Just that our brains reinforce the negative input of our surroundings, which is really fucked up if you ask me.

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>>43468089
>This means 0 females, ever.

Of the four Roll20 campaigns I've joined, two of them had women and one of them had a woman DM.

>>43468089
when I play chicks, which is almost always, they are never lesbians. One was a slut, but never lesbians

The point of playing a girl in a group of all males is to add variety.

I wouldn't mind joining your games, care to share an skype address or something so we could talk?

>>43470086
They reinforce input that agrees with what we already believe. That's why you practically never change someone's mind in an internet argument.

>>43470127
And of the nearly 20 games I've run, I've had one single female applicant ever, and the group broke up because no one could tolerate the idea of playing with her.

>>43469950

Sadly true.

I think if there is anything I'd want to discuss in a positive or constructive manner, it would be bringing more women into gaming. Those I've introduced to it really liked it and getting an equal level of participation would mean doubling the size of a community that /tg/ constantly claims is dying.

>>43468089

To be fair, not getting airtime in a Roll20 game sucks donkey dick if you play without video. The DM can't read body language to tell if one person is getting board and often becomes entangled with one or two PCs in particular. This problem is amplified if you split the party.

9 to 1 ratio.
Yeah pretty much.

Another femanon here; my group is... it's not really a *group* in the conventional sense. We're all IRC pals (about 34 of us as it happens) and in-house we run a few different game (~8). Two other women in the group but honestly that's because the site we all met on/came from is mostly guys. So the pool for girls was small to start with.

My primary playgroup has one lady. It's an interesting case where she's actually in a relationship with one of the other players and that -hasn't- been an issue, even when he DMs. So that's nice.

Played with a few others too, one regularly as we've ended up in the same games a few times. Definitely rarer than guys but apparently not as much as they used to be.

>>43470167
>I wouldn't mind joining your games

This isn't really how recruiting works. Is it a common thing for DMs to just give everyone who asks a spot, especially when they're asking to join while knowing literally nothing about the game, system, group, etc.?

>>43470256
It wasn't that. It was that she came to me after the first session and basically started babbling a bunch of tumblr-style nonsense about "I feel like everyone is talking over me and making it clear that they don't value my opinions and being dismissive and blah blah blah" all because it's a party of 6 fucking people and she's not being the party face because, surprise, there's a player who's more outgoing and has a more charismatic character.

I have never run a game with video (though I'm endeavoring too, but I have a feeling I'll be the only somewhat normal-looking person that plays), but I can't imagine it would run much differently. I've never, ever had a dude complain about people "talking over him and invalidating him" in my life.

>>43470572
I said talk, not joining on the spot

The only girl I've ever played a wargame with is my girlfriend, and we played Battle Companies of LOTR, and a few home made wargames I have.

>>43470167
I like to play asexual characters or characters that deal with sexuality in a more romantic way.

My last woman character (a human fighter) was married. The one before her (a halfling rogue) was a hopeless romantic and in love with the party's half-orc fighter cause he was strong, mean but secretly amiable and sweet.

It's not easy roleplaying them convincingly when it comes to sexuality, tho.

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>>43469886
>>theyre different! I swear
no moron, you percieve the differences more clearly because women are obviously different from you. when a woman does something bad, its because shes a woman, when a guy does something bad, its because hes a that guy, or an autist. its never "because hes a guy"

same thing with black guys. a black guy stinking up the bus? its cause hes a nigger, if its some white guy, you're obviously going to latch onto what kind of hat he wears or if hes got a naruto headband or anything but the truth that he shares your skin color.

and yes it works in the inverse as well, a black guy will notice a white guy more, women will get on mens case in just the same way.

welcome to the humanity, where you will take any excuse to make sure people you don't like don't belong in the enlightened and special group you happen to belong to.

>>43470796
well it depends on the setting, but for me unless it is part of the personality of the character ("this girl is a slut, this guy is a pervert") I see no reason to mention anything about the sexuality of my characters in RPGs (also, it is more of a "show, don't tell")

>>43470882
>not even a single capital letter was given
I agree with you, but I really hate you

I've only had one game that had a woman in it, out of maybe a dozen. But it also lasted longer than every other game I've been in combined.

>>43470631
I don't think that's going to happen.

>>43470882
no, you didn't understand

when a man does something bad he is "that guy" and when a woman does something bad she is "that girl", and I've said that I never met any "that guy" but that I met a "that girl". I also said that "that girl" and "that guy" fuck up as much but in different ways

have you even read all that wall of text before making yourself look like a retard with that post?

>>43470958
then what, do you expect me to cry myself to sleep?

>>43470900
Agreed. When I played the Married Fighter it never came until an elven prince offered us all the pleasures we could think of.
When I refused all the sensual company the prince (actually a cultist of Graz'zt) made fun of me so I revealed I was married and quite happy.
I remember quite well I was the one bashing his face in when we uncovered his cult. It was mildly satisfactory.

>>43470981
I don't think I implied that I expected anything?

>>43471009
then what was the point of making that post?

>>43471032
I dunno, what is the point of asking to join a game you don't know anything about?

>>43471051
to perhaps join such game if we find each other likable

I don't see where you fit in this

>>43467018
I would say in RPG's I have played are 30% female.

And for wargames 20% or lower.

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>>43470965
>>no I don't understand
I know you don't understand

>>It doesn't mean that all women are bad drivers and there is certainly a lot of bad male drivers, but the fuck ups that male and female do are identifiable and different.

you made that really fucking clear when I went out of my way to tell you that men and women fuck up in the exact same way and you only perceive a difference because of your bias.

>>43470939
Thankyou, I try.

>>43471051
>>43471032
Why are you two replying in this cascade of awkward? Do you have any reason to increasing this suffering?

>>43471101
>>>no I don't understand
>>>I don't understand

yes, you can't read

>inb4 a reply quoting "I can't read"

>>43467018
Had 3 groups with women in them out of 5, 1 with 1 girl and 2 with 2 girls (first group - 2 girl players, second - 1 girl player and 1 DM).

>>43471085
As a side note, im the only male in a group of 5 including the DM. Its definitely different and im not sure if its related but the group has placed much more importance and time in base building, which I love.

>>43470965

Did you read his wall of text before making yourself look like a retard? The whole point is that they fuck up in the SAME way for the most part, but your brain amplifies any differences.

>>43471112
it's 1:40am and I've lost control of my life

>>43471126
keked

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>>43471126
If you already admit it then its pretty clear I don't need to explain to you you don't know how to read.

>>43470497
>(about 34 of us as it happens)
Yo what the fuck
how do you even keep track of that many people?

>>43471145
no

I wrote that wall of text

that's not the point at all

this anon >>43470965 got it right

>>43471101
>to tell you that men and women fuck up in the exact same way and you only perceive a difference because of your bias.
Males and females are not 100% alike. I'm not the person you're talking to, but you're really wrong. It mostly comes down to individuals mostly, but girls fuck up in differing ways to how men fuck up. That isn't to say one is better or one is worse, it's simply how it is.

>>43471163
that pic dismissed all the care I had for this discussion

what's that and how's it called?

>>43471186

From that post:

>I also said that "that girl" and "that guy" fuck up as much but in different ways

From the wall of text:

>>>no moron, you percieve the differences more clearly because women are obviously different from you. when a woman does something bad, its because shes a woman, when a guy does something bad, its because hes a that guy, or an autist. its never "because hes a guy"

The point is, they aren't different, not that they are both bad in different ways. The wall of text reply correctly states that the the central premise of the original and followup post is wrong.

>>43467018
So one in ten of /tg/ are girls? One in ten of those girls are straight.

>>43471295
I don't even care anymore, refer to this >>43471209

not even going to read that post, too late here, I'm going to bed, goodnight, I hope you dream of getting head

>>43471313
more like [spoilers]one in ten of those girls aren't traps[/spoilers]

>>43471313
Next pool will be sexuality pool.
I fully predict straight will be the least of all people here in /tg/.

Girls who enjoy dem dudes are becoming fewer and guys that are exclusively all about the kitty are becoming more and more colorful as time passes.

>>43471313
Of those 31 in the poll:

>10 are trolls
>19 are fat
>at least 80% are autistic
>100% are SJWs who will throw a tantrum at the concept of skimpy armor
>None actually play games

>>43471191
>>thats how it is uhhh because, because! thats why
good talk, I'm glad you brought up so many interesting and thoughtful points.

>>43471209
Why its simple anon, It's a magical grill.

>>43471371
>Girls who enjoy dem dudes are becoming fewer
What?
>guys that are exclusively all about the kitty are becoming more and more colorful
What?

>>43471422
He's saying more girls are lesbians (Don't know if this is true, but since SJW Feminism is on the rise, I'd guess it might be), and more dudes are becoming gay (which this thread is proof of).

>>43467691
>Generalizes that women superficially judge everything.
>Generalizes women.

>>43471464
>Generalizes that women superficially judge everything.

Let's not pretend for a single second that that's anything but 100% true.

>>43471460
I'm in some doubt, but hey. I think gay people are just being able to more openly express themselves in culture.

>>43471419
Sorry, I must have been taking a cue from your own wall of text which only has conjecture with nothing to back It up other than personal opinion. If you, maybe, just maybe, want to elevate a discussion above people making declarations and simply standing on them stubbornly, I'll recommend you start the citations for your own statements first.

>>43471422
I just mean that as time passes people are becoming less and less sexually dimorphed.
I myself am bisexual so I can attest to this.

>>43471491
>>43471401
Your mothers must be really proud of you two.

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>>43471510
http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/10/12/your-brain-first-notices-race-gender-before-all-else/60650.html
http://www.zmescience.com/research/studies/eye-color-face-trustworthiness-10012013/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_exclusion
https://books.google.com/books?id=8x95AgAAQBAJ&pg=PA173&lpg=PA173&dq=people+exclude+undesirables+from+their+in+group+psychology&source=bl&ots=qiok7k005I&sig=1oipsuFunTqUIRmvYZ2BNtF5-w4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDEQ6AEwA2oVChMI_P7E14r4yAIVTVyICh3vqAEl#v=onepage&q=people%20exclude%20undesirables%20from%20their%20in%20group%20psychology&f=false

source cited, your move chucklefuck.

>>43471512
Your personal experience can attest for the entirety of modern human behaviour?

I'm not sure "dimorphed" is a word by the way.

>>43467018
>Have you ever played RPGs or Wargames with women?

I have played RPGs with my ex-wife and board games with other women before. No wargames with women yet; none have seemed to enthused.

>>43471635
Ah, see. That's not even the part I had issue with or contested, therefore I have no reason to do so.

I do however applaud the effort of actually citing it.

>>43471642
No, I can attest that people are experiencing more freedom to express their sexuality.
And dimorphed is not a word no, sorry for that.

Problem with your poll is some people who think they're female who are actually male will skew that shit.

>>43471706
Yeah, I'd 100% agree with that. I just don't know how crazy the impact of that on the actual numbers of people who are hetero/bi/homosexual is.

>>43470182
you and your buddies must be nice to hang out with

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never had a positive experiance playing with girls. well as far as I can recal and we do tend to remember the bad more.

the fist time she just didn't learn the rules and tried to get the guys to keep track of all her shit. Se was learning to be a vet so clearly not to dumb to learn them, just didn't bother.
the second one was overly defencive. She wouldn't take any jokes about her/her char at all, no fun allowed type of person. Might be due to stuff in a prior group but she was an absolute kill joyfor our group.
the tird time was at a wargame event. I got in a rules argument with her and she laid it on eatra thick to get her right from the judge. In hind sight she was right but the flirting to get your way is a no go.
the forth one was a good rper and got along well in the group despite being an erasmus student so language issues. We did have to change the scedual to fit with her lessons. We also knew it would be a temporary thing due to her being an erasmus student and all that. But it ended before her semester was up. She did how ever keep telling us she'd be back in the campain (even got into online rpg platforms for her). She kept us on the hook several months before we moved on.

nothing that you can say are unique to women. I've had all of those things and more done to me by other men (aside from the seducing the jugde bit beut I've had them try to inflance them in other ways). Just seems that it might be more prevelant or just more momorable then with men. perhaps being that there are so few women in to traditional games to start with.

>this thread
Really perpetuating the stereotype here /tg/

>>43471750
Are you drunk-posting, anon?

>>43471733
My group has been together for almost two years now.

Sorry we didn't bend over backwards to accomodate the bitch who told me, the DM "I play a noble or I don't play." and then complained when I told her that firing a gun will probably have some adverse affects on her fucking stealth-based character, and when she complained about people talking over her, because her attempt at threatening an NPC didn't work, but paying him some gold and letting him go did.

But yeah, we're the assholes, because we didn't break our backs making sure this girl was comfortable and cared for.

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>>43471460
I doubt more girls are becoming lesbians.

would be nice though. maybe get more representation.

>>43471785
Can't see a reason why that would be a bad thing? The goal is to drive away those people who would be driven away by stereotypes, right?

>>43471785
Are you really surprised that the people most invested in hating women make up some of the ones responding to this thread?

Since /pol/ 2.0 this shit has been everywhere on 4chan anyway.

>>43471807
What I meant is more freedom to express their sexuality!
Goddamn anon misinterpreting my words and passing them down.

>>43471371
I'd assume 80% of /tg/ is straight, but I'm also assuming the gender poll is wrong.

>>43471807
Last I checked, lesbians get plenty of representation.

At least in my search history.

>>43471837
certainly seems so, I'm still pretty hesitant though, even though I grew up in a really liberal environment.

>>43471807
Korra, SU, Orange is the New Black, there's been some mainstream stuff in the last year or two.

>>43471828
>hating women
Fuck off with this SJW shit.

>Since /pol/ 2.0 this shit has been everywhere on 4chan anyway.
You legitimately think that /pol/ has anything to do with a community of nerds not wanting their hobby to be overrun by women? Nigger, where the fuck are you even from?

>>43471828
Saying women usually arent interested in /tg/ things unless they're connected to a male who is, isn't really under the woman hating spectrum imo.

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>>43471827

>>43471875
Why does it even matter if girls play?

>>43471875
Yeah, what this guy said. I don't want other girls getting all up in this shit and stealing my easy attention.

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>>43471872
but thats not my chinese cartoons
I know I know
>>have you tried not watching anime
but at least I have fanfiction. you know, when I don't have to sift between thousands of terrible rom coms where an obsessive lesbian is paired off with a guy who tried to kill her waifu.

>>43471876
Sure, but this
>>43471875
and this
>>43471827
certainly smell like it.

>>43471875
I'm from 4chan, and I've been using /tg/ as one of my mainboards since 2008.

There has been a huge uptick in comments against women and the kind of MRA diatribe shit you'd more commonly find on shitty /reddit/s since /pol/ was reintroduced to 4chan. Technomancer would be celebrated here now, but he was essentially run off the board back in the day.

>>43471905
>Why does it even matter if girls play?

It doesn't matter if they play. It matters if they fuck things up so they can feel "comfortable" playing.

>>43471827
When would that ever be a goal?

>>43471935
>There has been a huge uptick in comments against women and the kind of MRA diatribe

Yeah, I'm done. This place is done.

>>43471928
Anime is pure trash.

>>43467018
I'm running a Black Crusade campaign right now where half of the players are women. No problems with rules. One of them was new and got analysis paralysis for the first session but now she's fine. They're just like male players.

>>43471861
I am assuming it's more of a personal information kinda thing. Same way I don't broadcast where I live or what I do for a living on the internet I understand people not wanting to broadcast their sexuality.

>>43471853
I think the poll is right. I met girls on /tg/ before, and a 10 to 1 ratio seems about right.

I also met guys pretending to be girls too. And girls pretending to be guys pretending to be girls.

>>43471964
lol how long have you even fucking been here? I'm done because this isn't the board I recognise 2 years ago? 2 years ago it wasn't the board from 2 years before that, nigger.

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>>43471935
tg has always been sexist. but i do think that in recent years people have been getting increasingly mean spirited about it. back in the day it seemed pretty tongue in cheek, with -4 str threads rarely devolving into actual vitriol.

some girls joined our group before... I realize one of them in retrospect just wanted an excuse to meet me because she wanted to fuck but alas I was a naive virgin who couldn't pick up on such subtleties... they only attended one game

someones girlfriend became a regular member later, she was aight

>>43471945
Define fuck things up, please.

>>43472015
I think it was less problematic before because /tg/ would ADAMANTLY refuse to acknowledge even the existence of women in the board at all.
Now that they have seen them they are on the "flip out" stage.

>>43472022
what he means, as previously discussed, is that when men fuck up, hes just a that guy, not a reflection on all men, when women fuck up, theyre overrunning his special tree fort with their feminism and sjws and they all need to leave him alone, no grills allowed.

>>43472015
-4 STR was usually an excuse to post musclegirls. I totally agree with your post, things are bitter as fuck now and the kind of dialogue you get was what used to be restricted to shit like the spearhead or /r/redpill.

I guess it's lowest common denominator shit/Poe's Law, but it's fucking depressing.

>>43472055
No yeah, I understand that. I just want to see his argument.
I feel like it would be something I could use in a good game of CoC!
Imagine an insane asylum full of people like that. The party is all female. It would be fucking harrowing!

>>43472061
Meme like a retard and you'll attract actual retards
You know how it is

>>43472054
I honestly preferred tits or gtfo over btw I'm a girl.

the success of the latter is written into its purpose of forcing words or motives in someones mouth as a method of trolling, shit posting, and attacking.

tits or gtfo was louder but always reflected on the people who said it instead.

its all stupid anyway. male is the default and anyone who pretends that neutrality is okay is obviously an attention whore or a sjw slut.

>>43472129
Is this bait?
>neutrality is not okay on an anonymous imageboard

>>43472155
it was implied but i'll make it explicit. neutrality (between genders)

IE: if I made a reference to schlicking, it would be received the same way as fapping. the reality is that people who make any off hand reference to male gender on 4chan are effectively "neutral" because board culture says male is the default state of anonymous. any reference to being a girl is deviancy and attention whoring and to be ridiculed immediately.

>>43472055
The thing is - in my personal experience at least (because let's face it, nobody's done a double blind study on this shit.) That attitude stops the moment I leave /tg/. I've never encountered a group that's been hostile to the idea of playing with a girl, or who cites that one time they did play with a girl and it was a disaster as evidence.

If anything, my experience is quite the opposite. People (read: men), tend to be quite eager to get women into their groups when the opportunity arises.

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've been a player and GM'd, online and irl, and not experience any of this kind of banal, ridiculous logic.

So what is it about /tg/ that seems to invite people to make this kind of ad hominem attacks and lazy stereotypes? Anyone have any pet theories? I'm genuinely curious, because /tg/ definitely does come across as vitriolically misogynist a lot of the time these days.

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>>43472129
Funny how I agreed with you until you started making no fucking sense whatsoever.

If you crop your post in half you have two things. One is quite acceptable and an interesting opinion. The other is completely assholery.

How did you manage that?

>>43472218
In general, an increasing amount of visible feminism in popular culture and people who feel threatened by that and that they have to react. Plus anonymity.

Any qts in this thread want to be my girlfriend?

or boyfriend doesn't really matter as long as you look cute in a skirt

>>43472218
>People (read: men), tend to be quite eager to get women into their groups when the opportunity arises.
Because they think it might let them fuck that woman. Period.

>>43470882
feminist here. This is exactly correct and why everything is shit everywhere. In-group dynamics vs the other.

>>43472233
well, its because they're qualitative statements based on culture and social behavior, not science or anything. in other words, because you have differing opinions than me, you perceive them as negative, but only the statements you disagree with, giving you dissonance when you originally feel like "hey this person is on my side" by beginning to read, and in the end, the disagreement ends like a slap in the face.

people actually are prone to be bothered even more by people who start out in a position they find positive and then somehow descend, than someone who was always doing the things they don't like anyway.

>>43472312
>feminist here

WELCOME TO /tg/ EVERYBODY

>>43472218
A social sphere of people who, in general, grew up in an environment where they were judged for their hobby are now being asked to be more open minded.
>>43472309
For you, perhaps.

>>43472334
You're such a fucking newfag, holy shit.

>>43472312
yeah, even poisons feminism.
the funny thing is people act like the stuff tumbler bitches about is new, but as this guy alluded to
>>43472259
its just more visible because the internet is a free platform to soap box.

>>43472339
>For you, perhaps.
No, for men. This is how men work. If the girl coming into the group is not explicitly in a relationship with the person bringing her in, it means everyone there accepts her because they want to fuck her (unless she's ugly, in which case she will usually be rejected).

>>43472218
I think it's a great combination between two different demographics. People who are here for a fucking reason (I am preparing for my game and reading 5e threads as a result) and the 4channers who exist solely inside the internet and take this as their only identity.

People who is busy will get busy. People who have too much spare time on their hands will absorb all the shit and spew it out to others.

So I believe it is one of those "vocal minorities thing"

>>43472366
Speaking as another man, no.

>>43472259
>an increasing amount of visible feminism in popular culture and people who feel threatened by that

I think when the ideology shouting "Everything is sexist, everything is mysoginist, listen and believe" comes into mainstream view and acquiring the power to fuck every single thing they touch, everyone feels threatened by that.

>>43472372
>4channers

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>43472366
False. I bring girls into my tables because I want to increase the female demographic, I want to show them that RPG is fun and is something they can have and enjoy.

I am just as vocal and eager to bring a guy who is new to the world of gaming.

>>43472385
You're right, sometimes men are gay.

>>43472366
As a dude, that's incorrect.

>>43472295
>>43472309

Sometimes I wonder, /tg/. I was going to call >>43472309
...A slightly facetious point, but, the evidence really is right there.

>>43472385
Speaking as yet another man, he's right.

>>43472312
Hey, I am a dude and I also am a feminist. I think women do get the short stick in most social situations, from jobs to game gatherings, and I wish to see that change and improve with time.

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>That guy who invites a girl to play so that he can try and get with her
>That guy who creates an overly complicated min max character for her to play
>That guy who gets flustered when the girl he brings along does something original and inventive when she should have done things his way
>That guy who finds out that the girl he brought along is not interested in him
>That guy who leaves in the middle of the game, leaving the girl he brought along stranded at a stranger's home

He pulled that shit a few times up until the last point a few times, but when the last girl he brought called him out, he left her because he couldn't handle getting called out for his bullshit behavor.

TL;DR, DM drove her home, we kicked out that guy and that girl is still playing every week with us.

>>43472385
>>43472415
>>43472422
>>43472427

So... Men aren't all the same. Shock horror.

>>43472473
They all 100% do only associate with and game with girls they want to fuck though. That's an indisputable universal law that can never be contravened, not even by the will of an all-powerful god. Fact

>>43472458
I'll take "Things that never happened for 500" Alex.

>>43472425
How autistic do you have to be to not recognize that as a joke?

>>43471723
Oh here it fucking comes. How are the 1950s treating you grandpa? Too much live and let live here for you to not take pot shots?

>>43472473
The entire premise of the thread is about generalizations. If we just discredit generalizations as an opinion, then every single post in this thread is meaningless even to itself.
So then what are we even doing here?

>>43472397
why do you think feminism in the 70s and before even that was resisted so much?

it was just that, again those ideas aren't new. they where in the popular feminist literature of the day and gave rise to concepts like the bitchy hairy feminist long before the internet got a hold of the idea. they really espoused close minded ideas like that on the top levels of feminism. pretty much any social movement had people like this, like the black panthers.

>>43472458
>that guy who invites a girl to play so that he can try and get with her
This is objectively the worst fucking thing.
>>43472503
>want to play game with people
>gender and race is irrelevant
If I happen to want to fug her afterward, I would ask for a date or something, all of it being completely irrelevant to the game.
It's like barring dudes from games because they're ugly or don't have the same world views as you.

>>43472503
I know right.

>>43472295
I'm afraid you're going to have to be the one wearing the skirt.

You'll learn to like it.

>>43472503
I'll take that as a... Nine year old compliment, then.

>>43472555
Holy shit are you really this blind to sarcasm.

This thread becomes a lot more bearable and understandable when you realize that a lot of 4chan is underaged.

>>43472512
Pot. Kettle. Black.

>>43472544
>The entire premise of the thread is about generalizations
What? Why? When? How did you even come to this conclusion?
The thread was about girls in gaming groups and their numbers represented in 4chan!

>>43472457
the best way to do that at the moment is to shame feminists who spout SJW rhetoric and show a supporting demographic for women who are feminists is not in the exclusive hands of a bunch of wackos.

>>43472544
Typical male obfuscation here.

>>43472555
>It's like barring dudes from games because they're ugly or don't have the same world views as you.

That's what this whole fucking thread is, though. It's guys saying "lol i dont fit that ugly basement dweller stereotype." and then bragging about how they play games with their normalfag friends, and look down on the people that actually kept the hobby alive for the decades until they could just find out about it and adopt it into their "nerd image" that they started cultivating in the last few years.

>>43472366
I'm gay lol so the girl I brought into the group was because she's a delightful person to be around and interested in roleplaying.

I fucked her brother though.

>>43472589
Reddit. You. Back. Go. Faggot.

>>43467018
Literally 6/10 in my current online pnp game are females. It's not that big of a deal.

>>43472544
Shitposting and making jokes of a subject tangentially related to /tg/ in a thread with the purpose of inciting said jokes and shit posts.

>>43472630
Oh my...

>>43472632
You seem like a nice person. Want to go out some time?

>>43472639
A 10 person group sounds like kind of a big deal desu, especially online.

>>43472602
The best way to do that is to show support to the women in your life. The wackos will still be wackos tomorrow.
It's the same argument against Games Make People Violent. It's a bunch of insane old people that know nothing of what they speak.
Fighting these lunatics is time-consuming and exhausting, while I think energy is best invested into making sure the people around us get fair treatment and understanding.

>>43471935
4chan since mid 05 here. /tg/ since 07 or so and I can completely echo this. Also more venom in these kinds of posts than used to be. Actually quit /tg/ for two years because of the influx of shitty personalities. Feels like a /v/ and /pol/ spillover.

>>43472711
I know it's tangential, but there was a debate put forward in the U.K parliament about the topic of video game violence last year. It literally got laughed out of the chamber.

>>43472743
Well, it is a /v/ and /pol/ spillover, this is what happens when people go around 4chan spouting /tg/ best board xD

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>>43472711
I dont mean shame them as in fight them, I mean shame them as in show others there are people who disagree with them and that if they want to fight for equal rights they don't have to be with a crowd that abusive and nuts.

>>43472711
>while I think energy is best invested into making sure the people around us get fair treatment and understanding.

which, when you're a feminist, means affirmative action for women.

sorry, I'll treat everyone like people, and feminists of all degrees can go fuck themselves into their own sexist corner and whine about unfair treatment.

>>43472791
No... It doesn't mean affirmative action for women. Because that's not fair treatment.

>>43472816
>Because that's not fair treatment.

which is why it's what feminism wants. they want the preferential treatment of women.

otherwise why call yourself a feminist?

>>43472842
feminism (fĕmˈə-nĭzˌəm)►
n. Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.
n. The movement organized around this belief.

>>43472842
Thus a large portion of the feminist movement has reclassed themselves as humanist

>>43472842
Because you want to advance the cause of women, who are currently under-represented and mistreated in a variety of circumstances. When we have absolute parity between the genders, I won't be a feminist any more.

>>43472873
Stop bullshitting, you know exactly what we're talking about.

>>43472763
People age. Our generation grew up with games so we know what it means. The older generation, the one that didn't understand what games were, they flipped their shit at the time but their representation is dwindling.

>>43472781
Sorry, I know what you said makes sense, but I can't take you seriously when you post that shit there. It doesn't help that I am a closet lolicon.

>>43472791
Being a feminist is actually a stupid word to use here. A feminist is not a person that fights SOLELY for the rights of women world wide, but a person that fights for women to have the same rights and treatment as men do.
We lost the opportunity to call ourselves egalitarians and it has ever since been a thorn in my fucking side.

>>43472874
>humanist
this has almost nothing to do with equality. if anything it encourages slight inequality, as there are phisological differences between men and women. not going to comment on weather this is a good thing, but weather or not people should be free or not or if they should be secular or not is irrelevant to putting men and women on an even playing field.

>>43472874
>Thus a large portion of the feminist movement has reclassed themselves as humanist
kek, you do realize that humanists are an offshoot of patriarch centric philosophies, right?

>>43467018
I grew up on Wargames and Vidya and encountered exactly two girls in the first 20 years of my life related to the hobby, when I started RPing at 20 I met at least one girl a session.

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>>43472896
oh I am very aware of exactly what you are talking about.

>>43472666
It would be pretty impossible irl. Luckily our entire group is close and pretty hugboxy (In the good sense. It allows the group to stay together, even when there are drama issues. We usually talk together in chat on nongame days as well.), and our gm is a pretty cool guy.

The group started on 4chan, believe it or not.

>>43472873
>n. Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.
But that's wrong. We have a word for this, and it's called "egalitarian", which literally means exactly that.

"Feminism" as a word, axiomatically cannot mean "equality of the sexes", as it is constructed using etymology that means exactly the opposite.

>>43472878
>Because you want to advance the cause of women
Why would anyone want this? I don't want to advance the cause of women, that's ridiculous. I want to advance the cause of people.

>When we have absolute parity between the genders, I won't be a feminist any more.
Parity in WHAT? Do you want equality in opportunity, or equality in outcome? Clearly, outcome, but you know the only way that can happen is through mandate. We won't ever get parity of the sexes in frontline military service. Do you want parity between genders in people who pick up trash? What about in people working construction or on oil rigs?

Do you care about parity in those things? What about parity in custody law? Sentencing for crimes? Pedophilia charges? Do you want equal representation for women there too?

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>>43472842
>Because that's not fair treatment.
>which is why it's what feminism wants. they want the preferential treatment of women.

Fair does not mean the same thing as preferential. Why would you think that? Why in fucking Christ would you think 'fair' means 'bias in favor'?

I'm not even that anon, but why are you a retard that can't even understand/remember what words mean?

>>43472984
Hey, I dated a trap I met on /soc/ for 6 months. It was full on magical realm. I will believe it if you say it was 4chan.

>>43472943
It feels like you're deliberately missing the point. I'm not advocating people being treated equally if their skills or predispositions aren't equal. I'm advocating gender to not be a considered factor. Gender may have *impacts* that create factors that should be considered, but that is not the same thing, and for gender to not be a means of imposing arbitrary or bizarre rules.

For example having skirts be a mandatory part of police uniforms for women, despite them being absolutely absurd and impractical. And yes, that is still a thing in many countries (most notably, Russia.)

>>43473024
When a feminist says "fair" they mean "enforced preference towards women".

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>>43473013
>>synonyms cannot exist
sorry but you are wrong. etymology-wise, slaves are from slavic nations. so why do we call all our african chattel slaves? it's because language isn't your chemistry set. there's a reason dead languages are preferred for science. I'll let you figure out why that may be the case, for now enjoy a funny aspect of our retarded langauge.

>>43467018
>Have you ever played RPGs with women
Yes, many times, with many different groups over 2 decades
I've played with friends, and relatives, and randoms at FLGS, and people at cons
>or Wargames with women
Never a single time

From my own experience, they simply won't learn the rules of the game. Even something like nWoD, where you just add up the dots and roll that many d10s requires asking what to do every single time of every single session.This is not 100%, but it's damn close.

And running RPGs? Fuck, I've had every stereotypical story you usually hear.
Mary Sue DMPC self inserts, murder mysteries where she forgot to pick a culprit, weird sexual stuff, you name it, I've seen it.

I've played one (1) game ever with a female DM that was both fun and lasted more than one session. She ran Maid, it was hysterical, everyone had a great time. She put together gigantic random occurrence charts and was amazing at improving the resulting bizarre combinations. Easily one of my best gaming experiences.

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>>43473051
>They're double speaking!

Look at this anon. Look at them and laugh.Also, I'm pretty sure that's some kind of fallacy.

>>43473013
>Parity in WHAT? Do you want equality in opportunity, or equality in outcome? Clearly, outcome, but you know the only way that can happen is through mandate. We won't ever get parity of the sexes in frontline military service. Do you want parity between genders in people who pick up trash? What about in people working construction or on oil rigs?
>Do you care about parity in those things? What about parity in custody law? Sentencing for crimes? Pedophilia charges? Do you want equal representation for women there too?
Yes. Pretty much.

Plus, I want women to know they can achieve the same capstones men can, that they need not stay home and grow a family, that they can pursue an independent career, that family is what they make of it and that they need not others to tell them they are doing things right to feel comfortable about themselves. Be those people men or women, I want people to live a better life.

But I agree we lost the opportunity to call ourselves egalitarians...

>>43473013
Yes, I want parity in custody law, sentencing for crimes, and pedophilia charges. Stop trying to impose your own bizarre definition of feminism. I don't hate men, I don't women to have more rights than men. Stop being a reactionary idiot. I want men's synchronized swimming to be included as an Olympic event just like I wanted women's boxing and women's ski jump to be included. Feminism is the word giving to this belief set, and if you can't accept that... That's your problem, but don't go jabbing your panicky, swivel-eyed horror at the thought of SJWs changing the word to flip the patriarchy into a matriarchy at people for using that word alone.

>>43473094
The important distinction is that "feminism" DOESN'T mean "equality between sexes". What it means is "striving for equality between sexes by focusing on females and prioritizing their issues, either real or imagined".

The goal may be equality, but you don't get to disregard the method as part of the definition. Otherwise, your definition is intentionally misleading.

>>43473128
So why are you prepared to complain about a lack of female CEOs or political leaders, but not prepared to complain about a lack of female garbagemen?

>>43473035
Did you hold hands?

>>43473040
I know its a thing in many countries. you are the one missing the point. I never said you are advocating being treated equally if skills aren't equal, Infact, what I did say is that you believing the opposite should be true has nothing to do with feminism, since feminism is a movement for parity, it does not focus on changing the current paradigm beyond the equality of men and women within it.

>>43473121
>She put together gigantic random occurrence charts
Maid has those already, did she make bigger ones?

>>43473128
>>43473136
Then maybe the problem is you trying to attach a label to yourselves, even if that label is hurting your own cause.

>>43473164
I am actually averse to complaining altogether. I believe in the good of positive reinforcement.

>>43473207
Yes.

>>43473229
>I believe in the good of positive reinforcement.

So why are we worrying about female representation in a stupid hobby, when we should be fighting to get more women into the career of picking up trash?

>>43473170
Yes. Also, a small pet peeve of mine, her penis was bigger. It felt thoroughly emasculating. She was pretty delicate, tho.

>>43472355
Person you replied to here. I especially hate when shit muddies up a group I support. It would be great if we women could be treated better and people would accept what the anon said about group dynamic psychology. Hell, even newborn babies are racist. Then after spilling, I turn around and some sex-worker exclusionary, trans-exclusionary, or black-exclusionary "feminist" is spewing weird shit on the Internet. I face palm. Never mind that she's in an insane minority of cult like weirdos like some sort of Westboro Feminism, she will be taken seriously as the spearhead of ALL feminism. Then you get women who call themselves feminists but spend most of their time shitting on Internet female personalities from an almost MRA perspective so the men will pet her and say "good dog". And because of these loudmouth people falsely marching under the same banner, people use it as an excuse to ignore the larger ideas of feminism. That men need it too because who perpetuates the cold, macho mentality that men have to be a certain way and can't have feelings? Men. Macho hyper masculine men. Like some of the raving lunatic assclowns in this thread.

>>43473147
the method is irrelevant. an ideology is an ideology. methods will spring up around any ideology. it does not reflect on the ideology any more than the black panthers reflects on the black civil rights movement. your perception of the way women handle the search for equal treatment to the sexes does not mean you get to rewrite the word in your image. the word has a meaning. the meaning is clear and concise.

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>>43473164
>>43473256
Because people don't want to be garbage workers. It's the same thing when white people complain about agreements taking the jobs that they don't want. No one wants to clean out porter potties for a living.

Are you done strawmanning yet?

>>43473257
>her
>penis

Pick one.

>>43473216
>>baww I have to be write even though I'm wrong.
have you considered only autists care about labels this much?

>>43472366
See, look at this guy. You are insulting every man on the planet. Stop perpetuating this bullshit that men aren't more than their penis. Or that they can't just want someone around because they're fun. Stop telling other grown ass men who they are.

>>43467018
I haven't played many wargames, but I've played plenty of RPG's with women. Half of my last two groups were female. The guild I was part of in WoW is about half female. Actually, the only male-dominated games I seem to wind up in are card game tournaments.

They have consistently been no better or worse than any man I've ever played with, if that's the angle you were looking for.

>>43473290
>Because people don't want to be garbage workers

So that means it's alright for it to be a male-dominated job? Because no one really wants a career doing that?

>>43473256
Because, you dense motherfucker, that "stupid hobby" is the best thing I have in my life. I am shit at most everything I do, but when it comes to building narrative structures for games I am quite decent at it, even respectably so.
I want everyone to know they can have that too. Me, you, other guys and other girls. And I want them to know it doesn't matter what a few retarded morons that don't know the smell of their fucking crotch think or do, this is something they can have. This is something good and no one can take that away from them.

>>43473216
So what you're saying is, you were willing to pursue an irritable and agitated argument with multiple people over the inappropriate etymology of a word.

>>43473229
I'm not. I might blow your mind now with what *you* might consider to be anti-feminist bullshit.

I don't give a shit about the considerably reduced number of women at the top of society, much as I don't give a shit about the reduced number of women at the bottom. Women, socially (and there are some interesting evolutionary reasons to suggest as much) trend much more towards social 'normality' and averages than men. You see less women in high power, you see less women in prison.

Although I'm going to play Devil's Advocate now, and answer your question again. Because garbage man (which for some reason is used as a synonym for failure... No idea why). Whereas world leaders and top businessmen, are successful. People aspire to be successful, not to be failures. So parity in 'successful' fields is more important for the well being of society than parity in 'unsuccessful' fields.

>>43473256
it is something people talk about. If they talk about it enough, it becomes the premise to a sitcom with progressive writers, like that episode of parks and rec where several female members set out to prove women can be just as good garbos as men

we're on /tg/ though, in a thread called women and /tg/. This may explain why we're talking about women and tabletop games not women and careers in garbage

It's remarkable to me how consistent the split has been. It's stayed at 89:11 pretty much the entire time I've been watching.

>>43473264
>>That men need it too because who perpetuates the cold, macho mentality that men have to be a certain way and can't have feelings? Men. Macho hyper masculine men. Like some of the raving lunatic assclowns in this thread.
well you went off a little bit of the deep end here. because women are just as likely to do this too. Men are not the sole peddlers of masculine standards.

>>43473290
Hey, she wanted me to address her by the feminine noun, so I respected her wishes.
She had surgery some years back, didn't talk to her about it yet.

>>43473368
That probably means it had a lot of votes early on, and the number has probably slowed... Which sounds about right, really.

>>43473356
You linked the wrong person there. I think.

In any case I wholly agree with you. I don't care for better representation of women either, I care for their better wellbeing. I care only that their lives are good and prosperous and that they live it as how they want to live it, independent from other men and women.

>>43473326
That is not what I said, nor is it the focus of this conversation. Good job not acknowledging my other statements.

Also, the garbage trucks where I live are driven by women fairly often. They're the kind where you don't have to pick up the cans yourself, which would be difficult for most women and thus the reason why they normally wouldn't be hired. Otherwise you'd have the women working a different job, like being or call back at HQ. Fuck, I don't know how garbage jobs work.

Poor women are more likely to think 'waitress' or shit like that, not garbage. It's probably a cultural thing.

>>43473264
>Men perpetuate unreasonable standards for men.
Have you ever read a romance novel aimed at female demographics ever?
The men on the covers and described within are often the pinnacle of unreasonable and unhealthily high standards, and the books are marketed that way specifically because that's what the market of women want...
Sure there are guys who encourage hypermasculinity, but men by-and-large do it because its what gets them reproductive success, and to be reproductively competitive they have to live up to a standard assigned to them by the individual they want to reproduce with...a woman.

>>43472791
Affirmative action is ALREADY available to women. You want to know the leading demographic that uses it? White women. So fuck off when you don't know shit. Feminism has nothing to do with AA.

>>43473507
>the linebacker telling you you need to be more manly is just trying to help you get a girlfriend.

>>43472505
No dude, we have a guy in our group who used to do the exact same shit till we banned him from bringing new women.

>>43473257
Well, I hope you were happy together while it lasted! I am jelly of you though, as traps having bigger assets than me is my fetish.

>>43472874
No. No they fucking haven't. A humanist looks at, say a poor person and a rich guy and says each should be afforded the same opportunity after they already started unequal. Making everyone stand on the same height of plank when people are different heights. Feminism is about giving the people who are shorter a fucking bucket to stand on so they can reach the same height as everyone else with dignity. There are two kinds of equality and humanism and feminism are diametrically opposed.

>>43473507
That is a street that goes both ways, but since up until recently the entertainment media was dominated by a male demographic and made for a male demographic there are more female objectification out there than there is male, and that's not even an argument mate.
I am ok with more novels and games and series, whatever, aimed at solely the female demographic. Shit, Sailor Moon and Everything CLAMP does basically that and I watched all that shit when I was young.

>>43472541
...What? The ridiculous levels of "acceptance" these days is REALLY recent. Just going back to the 90's this shit wasn't okay.

>>43472639
Real females or pretend ones?

Applying that question to most of the responses here actually. How many of these women were always women?

>>43473606
>Feminism is about giving the people who are shorter a fucking bucket to stand on so they can reach the same height as everyone else with dignity.
Psssshhhhh, more like giving the person with a bucket a second bucket and then blaming the person without any buckets when they wobble and fall off.

>>43473013
So you're doing that thing armchair philosophers like Jim Holt do where someone makes it well defined what the word they're talking about means in the context of their stance but you want to get hung up on definitions instead of talk about the argument.

>>43473603
As far as fetishes go it was not a big deal to me. I felt more inadequate about my material, tho. Mine is about 6 to 7 inches, she was way more than 8. I must admit it was arousing to dominate her.

The relationship itself was quite brief, only six months, but I enjoyed it and I hope she did too. She was quiet, shy. I imagine she thought I judged her secretly, paranoia is constant in the life of trans, so one day she simply disappeared. Went back to her hometown in france, I heard.

>>43473673
Your metaphor is bad and you should feel bad.

>>43473448
Yeah, I was meant to link the post that the post *I* linked... Linked to.

>>43473607
It wasn't so much an argument as a counterpoint, I think that each sex creates unreasonable standards for the other, especially since humans as a collective are now competing with each-other on the global scale, and as competition gets more harsh, standards tend to rise.
I just don't think we "need" a female centric activist movement that mostly takes place via social media and letter writing campaigns to do so, if anything, we need to take both womens and mens issues into consideration and create some newer, better fitting movement.
Focusing on one side of the scale for either sex is just going to tip it back into some kind of inequality.