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MTG Commander EDH General /edhg/

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Thread replies: 499
Thread images: 48

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>RESOURCES

http://www.mtgcommander.net
>Official Site: Contains deck building rules and the current ban list.

http://www.tappedout.net
>Deck List Site: You can search for decks that other people have made. Authors often have comments that explain their deck’s strategy and card choices.

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh
>Another resource for commander discussion; they have an entire forum dedicated to discussing decks. People often make primers, which go into detail about how they built and play their deck.

http://www.edhrec.com/
>Statistically see what everyone else puts in their commander decks based on what is posted to the internet.

http://manabasecrafter.com/

>Find out what lands you can add to your deck, sorted by category, based on a chosen Commander’s color identity.

CARD SEARCHING

http://gatherer.com
>Official search site. Current for all sets but has a terrible UI.

http://www.magiccards.info
>Unofficial, but has GOAT search interface.

I guess it's an edition.
>>
SHOW US MEREN, WIZARDS.
>>
>>43456929
>No double strike and/or haste.

Not commander material. If it was bolt on a stick it would be a lot better.
>>
First for thank fucking christ the old thread was nothing but bullshit. Time to wait around for this one to devolve into the same thing.
>>
>>43456929
An Angel and a R/W commander that doesn't cost a million mana.

I'll take it. 5 mana 7/7 indestructible flier seems pretty solid.
>>
RW or "Just beat them in face senpai: The Colors"
>>
>>43456973
Have they ever in the history of magic been used for anything else?
>>
>>43456929
Dissapointing as fuck, and the ONLY reason its CMC 5 is for the dissapointing as fuck Main commander.

I mad wizards... I fucking mad..... fuck you
>>
>>43456929
I'm not sure how the lighting works in this picture. There is a red hue on one of the blades, its obviously not blood because its on the interior curve of the blade, so it has to be a reflection of the red from her wing. Shes not drenched in red, so its not the sun. Is her wing that reflective? There is a feather that is pure purple, and the end of her wing as well. The only really purple thing is her loin cloth. Is her loin cloth also super reflective? Even if it was shes blocking the light coming from behind her, so it shouldn't be reflecting. Does this artist even understand lighting?
>>
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Post cards you want in foil, but will never have.
>>
Whats with all these "commander" cards that in no way want you to build around them. Whats the point? The commander should be the most important card in the deck. Period.
>>
>>43456929
You can't really build around her. Can RW goodstuff work? Does RW even have any goodstuff? I still have high hopes for Ghost Dad and the GB Jund chick.
>>
>>43457005
Tell that to Oloro.
>>
>>43457013
R/W Artifacts is the ONLY good deck I have found with R/W

Everything else is "Why are you playing Iroas, or Gisela, or Aurelia?"

Nothing we are getting is new or innovative or will replace those 3 cards. I am seriously fucking disappointed in this set.
>>
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We spiders now.
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>>43457005
>he's not on the snake tribal hype train
>>
>>43457038
why aren't you*
>>
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>>43457003
The sphinx is clearly designed for multiplayer so it won't ever be printed in a standard set.

Maybe in Conspiracy 2 desu
>>
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>wanted compleated Ezuri to be something cool
>get a contradictory card that forces you to play wide for maximum effectiveness (tokens) but then his ability tries to make you play voltron because nobody's going to let whatever you put the tokens on live very long

I'll probably still wind up building new Ezuri but god damn he was such a fucking disappointment.
>>
I'm excited about the new overload card. That looks fun, even for monored.

I like the new angel, she's pretty charming. I'd probably just end up running Heartless Hidetsugu, Earthquakes, Malignos, etc. as enablers.
>>
>>43457044
Delicious reach.
>>
>>43457044
>But he was already pouring her a brimming glass of spiders
>>
>>43457044
A fog that potentially fucks up attackers, leaves behind bodies for sac outlets, and is pretty aggressively costed? Hot damn.

Angus Turbofog and Trostani Tokens are probably drooling over this.
>>
>>43457044
Like all the Flurry of Wings type of cards, seems alright. This one's cheap enough that it could work out.
>>
>>43457044
I love it. Turbofog the spidering.
Thromok
>>
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>>43457044
>>
>>43457063
I mean, with tokens, you can put it on other tokens. Or just mulldrifters you have lying around.

They only need to have the counters for one combat or so.
>>
>>43457056
Looks good for Red, White, and Boros.
>>
Anyone Else want to use Blighted Agent, Carrion Call, Glistener Elf, etc. with the new Ezuri or is everyone just thinking about silly infinite combos?

Also would really like berserk.
Please berserk.
Please.
It's a $70 Common holy shit why is this allowed for cards that aren't on the reserved list
>>
>>43457143
And Esper, Grixis, or UR Artifact decks. If they can get out enough Sol Rings, Monoliths, or Metalworkers to power this sphinx out by turn 3 or 4 they could probably leverage a hand refill very well.
>>
>>43457044
Am I the only one who feels they should stop printing so many rattlesnake cards? Things like Comeuppance that mean you can never ever safely attack into open mana regardless of the color your opponent's playing?

These cards are fine, they're not overpowered, but in a multiplayer format that's heavy on the durdling and where people are already not inclined to turn things sideways too often, it just slows down games even further. This is nothing something EDH needs more of.
>>
>>43457152
nope, I'm gonna run Elfball

I will use glistener elf though.
>>
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>>43457003
>Your waifu will never be foil
Hold me /edh/
>>
Have we seen the B/G commander yet?
I was thinking that Ezuri might be a really good way to load up on a zillion experience counters to abuse whatever the B/G one does with them in a BUG deck.
>>
>>43457231
sadly no
>>
>>43457231
>>43457238
Hm?
>>
>>43457231
Or RUG with the new Izzet guy and effects like tempt with vengeance and firecat blitz.
>>
>>43457152
What cards go infinite with Ezuri again?
>>
>>43457267
That's the alt commander, he's asking about the main commander.
>>
>>43457267
The main guy deals with experience counters. This is not the main guy.
>>43457274
Sage of Hours
>>
>>43457274
Sage of Hours
Earthcraft+Squirrel's Nest
Intruder Alarm+Anything (Presence of Gond)
>>
>>43456929
Is this angel from Thune?
>>
Is it just me, or is there no reason not to just run a bunch of dorks and every pentivus variant you can think of as a finisher in Ezuri?
>>
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What is up with Boros Angels and dual wielding but not having double strike?
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Is it possible to put your entire deck in your graveyard and generate 8 mana on the same turn in Legacy?
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>>43457003
mos def
>>
>>43457538
No. If this thing's good in legacy it'll be because of the base ability to cheat out any instant/sorcery from your graveyard, not the ridiculously expensive overload cost.
>>
>>43457442
Some people are pushing for Sage of Hours as well, just to go infinite.
>>
>>43457442

Don't forget the eldrazi that shit out tokens. Although those are more secondary than the primary goal of going fucking infinite.
>>
Hi I have a rules question that almost came up tonight but I didn't play it out this way just so I could avoid asking people irl about it.

If I have Pestilence Demon and Whip of Erebos on the battlefield, and activate his ability say, 10 times, will I gain X*6 life or X*10 (x being the number of creatures+players Pest. Demon hits)?

Because he has lifelink so his damage will heal him, but once the 6th hits he will die to itself, but the other 4 will still resolve... He had lifelink when he started the ability but not when they resolved since he's well, dead.

What happens? Sorry if this is the wrong place but it happened in an edh game so you guys are stuck with me
>>
>>43457442
This is why I dislike him already. Just really easy to build, shove all your tiny unblockable, infect, mana-producing, or token generating creatures in there with the usual craterhoof/overrun plans and sage of hours because why not shove in a two-mana card that goes infinite with your commander.
>>
>>43457601
will heal me* can't type
>>
>>43457056
It's expensive enough that it's unlikely to break standard, and it still has an effect in 1v1 (unlike myriad). There's hope yet.
>>
>>43457601
The other four won't resolve, he has to be on the field for his ability to work.
>>
>>43457601
It's a case of Last Known Information. Pestilence Demon as he last existed on the battlefield had lifelink, so he continues to "have lifelink" as long as currently existing stack things refer to him.

Note that, like any other Lifelink case, you won't actually lose life at all. You'll take 1 and gain 1 simultaneously from him hitting you, as well as gaining (X-1) from hitting everything else. So even if you did this at 1 life, you'd survive.
>>
>>43457538

Technically yes, but if that's what you're doing you aren't playing this card because you're playing Dredge or Oops All Spells.

The only deck that would want to go near this card is Storm, and for Storm this is just a worse Past in Flames for a few reasons:

>only useful if overloaded (8 mana)
>overload cost includes RRR
>doesn't have flashback (Past in Flames does)

also, EDH is worst format
>>
>>43457637
Not unless the ability states that he has to be, which it doesn't. Abilities on the stack exist independently of the source, see Perilous Myr for a similar effect where a dead thing is doing damage.

There ARE cases where the creature needs to still exist on resolution of an ability for the effect to matter. Things like "target creature you control fights target creature you don't control" and it's old templating on Durkwood Tracker are good examples, but they're governed by intervening If clauses that check on both activation and resolution.
>>
>>43457217
Judge foil or possibly a printing in Shadows over Innistrad.
>>
>>43457720
Oh ok, thanks.
>>
>>43457646
That's sweet, and yeah I knew the part about me not taking any damage, just curious how lifelink would work with him being dead. Thanks man :)
>>
>>43456929

>4/4 flyer for 5 with conditional buffs and indestructibility

And a resounding "meh" was heard miles away.

I'm pretty disappointed with this series of commander products. Experience could have been a much more interesting mechanic... if they decided to do anything interesting with it. Instead, all we get is the most obvious shit for each of them. And the alternate commander aren't looking that much better.
>>
I want to put this on one of the oversized cards I have laying around. Easiest way to put it on it? I've seen some tutorials on how to "proxy" shit before on youtube but they were all kinda old, plus none dealt with oversized cards. halp pls
>>
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>combos with Kiki-Jiki/Splinter Twin
Hilarious that it'll probably do this more than its intended use of combat trickery
>>
>>43458107
Oh man, that's a fun card. I don't know where I would run him, but I love interesting overrun effects.
>>
>>43457680
The major difference here is that everything you cast is for free. Fucking FREE, Anon! If you only have 8 mana to use while hard casting Past in Flames then you're only able to cast 4 CMC in other spells. With Mizzix's Mastery you could cast cards worth way more than just 8 CMC that you've been building up through the game.

Plus once you cast it every instant and sorcery in your graveyard would already be exiled, so it'd be pointless to add flashback. If you can't win after casting it the first time then you're probably bad at Magic.
>>
>>43457005
Goodstuff.dck sells more singles.
SCG seal of approval.
>>
>>43458158

If you have 8 mana with Past in Flames, then you have 4 mana leftover to cast other spells. This is technically true, but in Storm the other spells you're casting are rituals, which produce mana.

Have you ever played Storm or seen Storm played before?

The flashback on Past in Flames is relevant if it gets into the graveyard.
Example: Your initial Tendrils doesn't drain for lethal, but your Past in Flames and Tendrils are in the graveyard. In this scenario you need to build up a lethal storm count (whatever it may be), flashback Past in Flames, and flashback Tendrils for the win.
>>
>>43456929
After the shit they pulled with BFZ's Expeditions to get people to buy their shitty set in droves, watch Wizards put enemy fetches in the precons to sell Commander 2015. Charge a premium at 60 dollars too.
>>
>>43457267
>You love aristocrats in Modern, right?
>And in standard!
>Well, now you have aristocrats in EDH!

Dear god no.
>>
>>43457050
Have fun with your meme deck that's going to still run the typical UG cancer goodstuff to win.
>>
>>43458236
>i have never seen ghave before
nub
>>
>>43458236
Isn't EDH Aristocrats just Teysa, Orzhov Scion or Ghave, Guru of Spores?
>>
>>43458257
Thanks, I certainly will have fun.
>>
>>43458224
>not wanting fetches in precons
>>
>>43458261
I have never seen Ghave aristocrats. I've seen gave tokens and death engine but with 3 Blood Artists effects and 5 Husk effects the last thing I wanted to see was a free infinite persist enabling general.
>INB4 they print another Artist in this deck.
>>
>>43458310
>Expeditions
>bonuses
>almost everything in BFZ is fucking garbage and barely worth anything

Expeditions were added to carry a weak as shit set that they knew nobody was going to buy into for anything other than Limited format, which I'll admit is quite good, and nostalgia about the original Zendikar block.

Fuck off, idiot.
>>
>>43458363
If the captcha wasn't being a piece of shit I'd report you for shitposting.
>>
>MaRo hates Ezuri's Predation because he thinks Green should need to have a creature on the battlefield first to fight, not make creatures and then fight

God, I fucking hate this faggot.

It's not even in a real set, who the fuck cares. This game was more fun when they didn't adhere to the color pie like it was a fucking bible.
>>
>>43458107
Why are there roots on his hand? Wouldnt his feet have the roots? Was he doing a hand stand before he got up to be a tree baddie? Are his legs also trunks with roots? Was he on all fours with his tree ass up in the air? If he was on all fours then is this the first openly gay treefolk? His flavor text certainly makes sense if he is.
>>
>>43458448

i mean they still need to watch card balance since shit is allowed in legacy and vintage, otherwise you get shit like TNN. Adhering to the color pie just makes balance easier for them.
>>
>>43457000
You're seriously over-analyzing it dude.

The swords have a natural tint, it's probably supposed to be copper/bronze. Or, magic copper/bronze.
>>
>>43457628
Uhhhh senpai

This shit ain't standard legal.
>>
>>43458448
If they aren't careful with the color pie then color identity may as well not exist and the game would turn into a giant melting pot.
>>
>>43458524
That actually kinda makes sense already. Blue is the water/base, and all the other colors are simmering in it, slowly seeping into the broth. So its not a pie afterall, its a soup!
>>
>>43458059
You'd do it the exact same way.

Just need to make sure it prints to the same size as the over-sized card, easy enough.
>>
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>>43457013
But Anon, there's plenty of ways to build around her! Obviously the other RW angels are awesome to go with! Theres also a lot of ways to cut down your opponent's life total! (If you are running black) And don't forget we are getting an AMAZING new equipment called Scytheclaw!
>>
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>>43458684
Fuck yeah.
>>
>>43458684
>YOU GET AN OBLIVION RING
>YOU GET AN OBLIVION RING
>EVERYONE GETS AN OBLIVION RING
>>
>>43458684
Grasp of Fate? Groping Ground would be a much better name. Also fuck I hate it when things come back. I exiled because I wanted it gone forever.
>>
>>43458753
>Groping Ground
Well, you do see that one hand going straight for the Centaur's ass, so it'd be appropriate.
>>
How does everyone like Magus of the Wheel?
>>
>>43458865
I think he's a wheel good card
>>
>>43458880
CARLOS!
>>
Why are WBR commanders such pure shit?
>>
>>43458971
Because there are a total of 4.
>>
>>43457538
>Crucible of Worlds
>Cast mill spells on yourself all game while getting to eight mana
>Cast them all on your opponent

Sounds janky as fuck but could be fun____
>>
>>43459053
Don't even need to do that, just build up a high storm count and brain freeze yourself
>>
>>43458971
If tariel was more aggressively costed she would be quite good.
>>
>>43459270
>at random
>>
>>43459317
I play a Tariel deck. I very rarely not get what I want. Also untap shenanigans gives me their whole grave anyways so why cares?
>>
>>43459317
Beckon Apparation
Cemetery Reaper
Coffin Purge
Cremate
Eater of the dead
Nezumi Graverobber
Scrabbling Claws
Selfless Exorcist
Steamclaw
Withered Wretch(Best of the list)

Not to mention you can use any mass graveyard removal smartly.

You even trying bro?
>>
>>43458865
Not as good as Jace's Archivist, but Nekusar can run both, so it's fine
>>
>>43457538
I want to use this to make Shu-Yun huge
>>
>>43458865
I'm annoyed that he has 3 power because Alesha can't get him back. Sun titan and karmic guide can though so it will probably still get played
>>
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>>43457013
She's super tech for Godzilla and friends, shamefully she is not a moth or a rodan.

However there could be a fun deck to play her in with crescendo of war, and this wonderful little time piece right here.
>>
>>43458510
I think he's talking hypothetically, look at the post he replies to.
>>
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/unlimited-land-works/
IS IT WORTH IT TO PUT UGIN INTO THIS DECK? I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I AM DOING
>>
>>43458510
TESTING SOMETHING

senpai
>>
>>43459604
desu baka senpai
>>
>>43459604
>>43459611
Na na na

f am (remove the space) translates to sempai here.

I never knew.
>>
>>43459604
>>43459611
baka senpai desu
>>
>>43459611
>>43459619
I'm getting nostalgic.
>>
>>43459634
nobody cares
>>
>>43459645
Okay, senpai.
>>
Did I miss the shit posting?
>>
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>>43456929
This is just another proof that Wizards can't design R/W cards worth shit.

Wear/Tear and Lightning Helix are just two cards mashed together. Everything remotely playable is just Standard shit, Boros Charm (another card of effects mashed together), token producers or
> "HURR, WE PUT LIGHTNING HELIX ON OVERCOSTED CARD X BECAUSE WE HEARD YOU LIKE LIGHTNING HELIX!"

Seriously, fuck this and fuck them.
>>
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Even this old fucking custom card would have been cooler.
>>
>>43456971
I know right. Let's get things back on track. I'm building a u/g budget deck (don't want to spend hundreds of dollars on cardboard), but do want it to be pretty spirit of edh. Things like ramp, prophet of kruphix, consecrated sphinx, etc. Got any suggestions? No cancer pls
>>
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>>43457442
>defense of the heart/tooth and nail
>sage of stupid bullshit
>deranged hermit/brood monitor/hornet queen/anything that lets another 4 bodies hit the floor

This can't possibly go wrong. Thanks G/U!
>>
>>43460186
>that last ability

Oh god no. Never ever ever. WR has the worst problems with draw and ramp that would destroy the deck.
>>
>>43460480
I think it's pretty good. 3 damage every turn and immune to sorcery speed removal. The blocker manipulation is potentially busted though. One would be fine but two is too good imo.
>>
>>43460551
I think you forgot the ''You never get to draw a new card ever''.
>>
a new card got spoiled it seems okay.
>>
>>43460565
Should you need a new card you could just decide to not play her this turn.
>>
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>>43460569
Meteor Volley XRRR
Metero Volley deals 4 damage to X target creature or player.

It's... underwhelming
>>
>>43457056
Haha! Yes! This will show that UG deck that ends up with a forty card hand! This actually evens the playing field, thanks Wizards.
>>
>>43460588
>RRR

Why
>>
>>43457217
"And we'll never be foils"
"It don'the run in our blood"...
>>
>>43458753
Yeah, I've never thought cards with the return effects were that great in edh.
>>
>>43460660
because it'll be in Mizzix deck, most likely.
>>
>>43460588
The new legendary can reduce its cost so you can blow up a lot of stuff for cheap
>>
>>43460703
>>43460689
As stated before you have to judge it in a vacuum. In that deck it could very well be good. But what if I want to use it in another deck? RRR is very restrictive. To the point of unplayability.
>>
>>43460736
I wasn't saying ''it'll be in mizzix deck'' to forgive it, just that they might have been worried about balancing it in regard with the appropriate commander.

Still extremely underwhelming.
>>
>>43460588
Can it target things more than once?
>>
>>43460825
nope.
>>
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>>43457003
>>
>>43460835
And that is the final nail in the coffin.
>>
>>43460835
why? it doesn't say "different targets"
>>
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>>43460870
It's the other way around. If it's not mentionned, it's different targets.

Look at Hex for exemple. If you have 4 creature and your opponents only have 2, you need to destroy your 4 creatures in addition to their 2. you cannot target their creatures multiple time.
>>
So, MaRo says stuff like Ezuri's Predation is off-color. Thoughts?
>>
>>43460900
I think that it'd be fine if it was a 4/4 that fought on etb with also tokens that fight on etb, so I'm inclined to say it's not a very good argument, as the difference is pretty fine (the main one being that green is better at recurring creatures).
>>
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>>43457003
I just think he's neat
>>
>>43460870
I think the X implies that many targets have to be selected
>>
>>43460900
Don't take much of what MaRo says to heart, dude thinks devoid is a good mechanic.
>>
>>43460900
I follow him on Tumblr and honestly, he can make my blood boil with the shit he says.
I think an adherence to the color pie is in order, but sometimes thinking of creative manipulations to get an effect from one color into another makes for fun card design.
>>
>>43460151
This is because any WR combinations are army colours. If it isn't either direct damage, anthems or something to weaken the opposing creatures without resorting to -1/-1 counters, it's not part of RW. As far as design space in both red and white go, there's so little overlap other than small dudes beating the opponent over and over.
>>
>>43460900
I wasn't aware there was a jew that hated the color green.
>>
>>43460899 (checked)
drat
>>
>>43458684
>>
is anyone ready for how op vine centaur is going to be?
>>
>>43461231
I like how there's been a lot of powerful cards spoilered but nothing game breaking
except for the sword of selves, that's gonna be hilarious
>>
>>43461278
land destruction green can win now while everyone else is locked out of the game because they have no lands.
That sword is the strongest thing shown so far, imagine how many swords you can get with a stoneforge mystic.
>>
>>43460900
Spawning a bunch of creatures is green
Fight cards are green

Combining them somehow isn't green? Its effect isnt also even close to languish. His last statment is just silly, and makes it seem like green has to be all about creatures and tapping them and nothing else
>>
>>43461411
Red isn't allowed card draw
White isn't allowed kill spells
Black is allowed anything, but at a price
Green isnt allowed nonpermanent spells that do anything but acquire lands
Blue isn't allowed not to have everything
>>
>>43458448

Source?
>>
>>43460900
>>43461515
>>
>>43461487
you'd better be joking, negro
>>
Here is my fun times spicy snowflake commander OC. Yay or nay?
>>
>>43461487
>red isn't allowed to wheel
>white isn't allowed to kill attackers
>black is allowed to kill enchantments
>green isn't allowed to fight
>blue is da best memes
You didn't even try.

>>43461554
Get the fuck outta here with that shit.
>>
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>>43457068
Sounds delightful
>>43457044
posting spider pics now
>>
>>43457044
>>
EDH was a mistake

>Elder Dragon Highlander is a Magic: The Gathering variant which provides a way of encouraging casual, interactive games with a low barrier to entry while still requiring good deck building skills. It can be played 1-on-1 but is usually multiplayer.

Now its pay-to-win standard 2.0, t-thanks Wizards
>>
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>>43457044
Gotta have text to keep posting spiders
>>
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>>43457044
Gonna bring a mason jar of spiders and when I cast this card I'll open it up and just poor it onto the table. Thus ending the edh game, myself victorious
>>
>>43461487
Seems mostly legit.
>Red isn't allowed card draw
I'd say Red isn't allowed to trade 2 for 1. Everything red does, is being quick. You mostly trade 1 for 1 in red, except maybe for bigger spells. Problem is, every other color is slower but out-values red starting at mid-range and going up to late game spells. That's why you usually don't play the bigger spells.

>Green isnt allowed nonpermanent spells that do kill other creatures, without relying on creatures
ftfy
>>
>>43457056
I'm so excited to put this card in my Peasant cube.
>>
>UGzuri and Aluren
Toppest of keks.
>>
>>43460900
well lets all just be thankful maro isn't in control of the commander card design, he's made standard shitty enough as it is.
>>
>>43460588
Why not just play mizzium mortars
>>
>>43461774
Multiplayer, also faces
>>
>>43461792
>4 damage to the face
Hardly matters compared to the mana added in cost
>>
>>43461792
>Multiplayer
Are you implying this is better because it doesn't just hit everything?
>Faces
4 damage to the face is nothing special
>>
>>43461411
See the first post in that picture.

Fighting is green.
Deathtouch is green.
Flash is green.

A creature with flash, deathtouch and ETB fighting combines those to be a spot removal card, something that is inherently not green and shouldn't be in green.

Combining different mechanics that exist in a color's slice of the pie to do something outside of that color's slice of the pie results is badwrongfun.
>>
>>43460565
Btw, how does the commander rules go here? I mean, usually you get to choose to put commander to command zone instead of library.
>>
>>43461588
I feel like it's mostly "actually incredibly competitive 100 card legacy singleton with no prizes and more salt than a bag of lays"

well in my meta at least
>>
>>43461487
Red isn't allowed long-term advantage.
White isn't allowed card draw.
Black is allowed to do anything, at a cost.
Green isn't allowed to effect the boardstate without lands or creatures.
Blue isn't allowed unconditional removal.

That's WotC's official stance.
>>
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I am quite happy right now.
>>
>>43461957
Seems good, can't wait to see how bad the BW one is
>>
>>43461957
LOOKS LIKE BG IS THE VALUE TRAIN THIS SEASON BOYS, ALL ABOARD
>>
>>43461957
why the fuck are the BG commanders so much better then the others?

4 for a 3/4 while most are 2/2, and exp counter is easy as fuck to get while having a huge value
>>
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>>43461977
We've already seen the BW one (unless you're referrering to Karlov).
>>
>>43458684
Absolutely terrible. Unplayable.
>>
>>43461957
>battlefield
>not even the hand
WELP
>>
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And here's her friend.
>>
>>43461957
I like how its clause allows you to recur something you really need through hard casting instead limiting it to the amount of counters you already have.
>>
>>43461957
Didn't someone pretty much exactly predict that one yesterday?

>>43461977
It's already out.
>>
>>43462042
ghost grandpa is out?
>>
>>43462020
compare that to the red dragon.

not even fair
>>
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>>43457003
Fuck the fucking Reserve List so fucking hard.
>>
>>43462062
I think they're referring to Daxos and his underwhelming experience counter ability
>>
>>43462020
could this see play in Legacy/vintage in some kind of dredge deck?
>>
>>43462062
No, Daxos is the B/W part of the experience counter cycle.

For some reason people don't communicate which of the two cycles they're talking about. Not very helpfull.
>>
>>43462090
I think Daxos has a pretty good ability. It isn't too difficult to build an enchantment heavy deck so that he can pump out big tokens
>>
>>43462100
SPECULATORS GET OUT REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>
>>43462100
Nope. The BB cost kills it.
>>
>>43462009
>>43462042
I meant the one we haven't seen
>>
>>43460900
Maro on red is even more infuriating.
>>
>>43462107
Best way to specify is to refer to the ones that deal with experience counters as the main commanders and the ones that don't as alt commanders. For the BW precon, Daxos is the main commander while Karlov is the alt commander.
>>
>>43462121
I'm not saying he's bad, but in comparison to Meren, he's just underwhelming

Also as a primarily BW player I was hoping for more
>>
>>43462126
Oh well. Definitely playable in most black EDH decks though.
>>
>>43462009
>THEROS JUST HAD AN ENCHANTMENT SUBTHEME THE MAIN FOCUS IS GREEK MYTHOLOGY STOP CALLING IT AN ENCHANTMENT MATTERS BLOCK

Sure, WotC. That's why literally every Theros-centric card since Theros has been enchantment-based.
>>
>>43461898
>not playing with friends and making the jankiest, funnest decks you can
>not drinking beer and tossing out high fives whenever a ridiculous combo resolves
>>
>>43462158
>sacrificing two creatures at sorcery speed for a vanilla 6/6 flyer
Unless you're drowning in tokens I don't find it that great. The normal cost of 7 is steep too.
>>
>>43462068
Seriously:

Red:
>Body to weak for mana cost
>Abillity dependent on dealing combat damage
>gets you virtual card advantage, but you need to use it in the same turn

Black:
>Relevant body
>Can come back from the grave for reasonable cost
>That cost fuels your commander/deck theme

Wouldn't be surprised if there's a cycle of these guys and red is the worst of them.
>>
>>43462133
But anon, didn't you know that red isn't allowed any form of advantage that isn't sorcery speed and UEOT?
>>
>>43462177
>BG
>not having tokens or dudes who want to hit the gy
>>
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Waifu.

And a backstory of all things.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/uncharted-realms/all-cairns-jund-2015-11-04
>>
>>43462177
m8, it's an EXP grinder
>>
>>43462173
>not playing cutthroat anything goes edh over beers and brats with good friends.
>not getting progressively more drunk as games go on.
>not letting the winner of a game get out of paying for drinks that go around.

Why even live?
>>
>>43462198
Right, sorry, I was responding as someone who only runs mono B. Zombie swarms are entirely possible but not every mono B does that.

>>43462205
Guy I was responding to was talking about the dragon in other black decks, although not necessarily mono B.
>>
>>43461957
I'm in love
>>
>>43461571
Magus of the wheel is getting reprinted lmao at your life
>>
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I can dig it
>>
>>43462297
Already got it brah
>>43462020
>>
>>43462326
Shit my bad
>>
>>43462226
Anyone who talks about loli is also likely a huge faggot so you should probably curb stomp them while you're at it, it's less than they deserve
>>
>>43462161
Someone on the design team gets it. I'm still pissed Theros wasn't enchantment Mirrodin.
>>
>>43461825
No, I was implying that mizium only hit one player's things which was incorrect of me.
>>
>>43462202
Oh fuck, new commander here we go.
>>
>>43461957
I like it. However, I don't know if it's actually worth playing or if I'm caught up in plauable cutie waifu mode.
>>
>>43462202
>Jund necromancer
Fucking radical
>>
>>43461067
He doesn't just hates green, he Hayes all non blue.
>>
Golgari waifu is almost enough to redeem this shitty product. So is the new command land.
>>
>>43462662
You should've read his justification for why looting belongs in blue along with normal card draw and why it isn't a red mechanic.
>>
>>43462799
This sounds hilariously rage worthy. I must see it!
>>
>>43462799
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/36869991165/i-dont-understand-maro-why-is-red-not-allowed-to

Heres the one where he says red does get looting. Did he flip flop?
>>
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>Gain control of target spell. You may choose new targets for that spell. If that spell is a permanent, that permanent enters the battlefield under your control.
>>
>>43462832
oh and its an Instant of course
>>
>>43462826
It was pretty recent, around the end of October.

He doesn't outright say it isn't a red mechanic, he simply says it's more blue than red and while he's on the design team, it will never not be a blue mechanic.
>>
>>43462202
I wish she was worded different.
>At the beginning of your end step, choose target creature card in your graveyard and put that card in your hand. If that card's converted mana cost is less than or equal to the number of experience counters you have, you may return it to the battlefield instead.

I'd prefer to option to put kicker/cast trigger creatures back into my hand if I prefer
>>
>>43462832
So commandeer but without the alternate cost, neat
>>
>>43460900
oh hey I got onto this picture!
>>
>>43462863
What isn't a blue mechanic under his iron rule?
>>
>>43462832
I'm gonna love having this with the r/u commander.
>>
>>43462927
His logic only lasts as far as green it seems, cause he completely disregards it in his latest post defending a blue card breaking the color pie.
>>
>>43462972
I mean this is the same person who keeps saying Delver is a blue card (should be a red card)
>>
>>43462832
>new Comandeer

aw yiss
>>
>>43462972
Green doesn't need to break the color pie because they completely redefine it just for green
>>
Anybody have that one article where rosewater apologized for the state of blue? I can't find it.
>>
>>43457005
Timmy pls go kill yourself

Autistis like you are the reason tucking went away
>>
>Get stuff to battlefield, otherwise still get stuff who cares we shit value here.
There's definitely a gap here. Still hoping the BW fat ghost is somewhat playable but I can tell its gonna be something something life drain.
>>
>>43463037
Is it an article about modern? Because blue is fucking awful in modern
>>
New shit aside, what are you guys hoping for as the reprint commanders?

Gisela alone makes me want to buy the WR deck, but what about the others?
>>
>>43463076
*bangs fists*

CRUCIBLE
>>
>>43463044
>Whenever an enchantment ETB, drain 1
>>
>>43463084
I said commander, not artifact

But I would appreciate a crucible of worlds reprint
>>
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>>43462832
>Stealing someone's Thromok after they sac their whole board
>>
>>43463076
What was that artifact that taps to shit out snakes equal to the amount of counters on it? I might be remembering it wrong... But that one.
>>
>>43463161
>as it comes into play
>keep being food at magic tg
>>
>>43463161
I am not going to cast Thromok when the blue dude has 6 mana open.
>>
>>43463112
Please no
>>
>>43463186
Orochi Hatchery
>>
>>43463044
>we shit value here.

Too true, the BG commanders seem like they were designed to fight 2013 commanders
>>
>>43463199
What if you have cavern of souls?
>>
>>43463239
Okay, okay, it drains 2.
>>
>>43463244
Yeah that. I hope the UG deck has that in it. Or the BG deck. It could go either way.
>>
>>43462020
>giant flying gravecrawler
Yes, this will do nicely
>>
>>43463249
Hellion Tribal you say?
>>
>>43463260
Drain proportional to something, Souls of the Faultless style.
>>
>>43463310
no I just run it in Rakdos LoR to keep Rakdos(and Sire of Insanity) from being countered. I beat a Zur player this way
>>
>>43456929
Goes into Kaalia for funsies.
>>
>>43463051
No, is an article about how blue was a design mistake generally for being so good. And blue is great in modern.
>>
>>43463458
There is only one blue card that's actually worth playing
>>
What kind of weird shit would happen if Possibility Storm and Eye of the Storm were on the table at the same time?
>>
>>43462177
I don't think it will ever be hard cast in commander. There are plenty of ways for it to be discarded or milled.
>>
>>43462832
I want to steal a token deck's Elesh Norn then watch the player start to cry.
>>
>>43463477
I don't know, but I want to find out.
>>
>>43463474

Delver, serum, pact, cryptic command etc.

Also found it. http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr168
>>
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>>43463477
The universe folds in on itself
>>
>>43463474
>There is only one blue card that's actually worth playing

Man, you sure are dumb.
>>
>>43463477
You get kicked out of your playgroup.
>>
>>43463546
That's only with a Hive Mind in the mix. Otherwise everyone at the table just explodes like in Scanners
>>
>>43463477
>>43463567
this

if stuff liek that happens I fold, because I dont want to spend a couple hours playing random cards
>>
>>43463532
>Delver
No one plays delver in modern, and people that are stupid enough to do so even admit that it's the worst card in the deck
>Serum
Serum visions is a garbage can trip and wouldn't see play if any of the other ones were unbanned
>Pact
Hardly counts, doesn't see play in any deck aside from Bloom, which won't be a deck much longer
>Cryptic
the only halfway decent answer you posted, but it still only half counts because cryptic is not a card you play blue for, it's a card you play because you're in blue
>>
>>43463477
It depends on who controls Possibility Storm and who controls Eye of the Storm. Otherwise it's simple as fuck.
>>
>>43463597
Serum is still with playing though.

Probe too, though that's more situational.

You're problem seems to be thinking that because blue was op as shit in the past, the options it has today that are merely good are actually crap. Of course, your can see why you're retarded now.
>>
>>43463684
Also pestermite and friends, remand, merfolk generally, etc
>>
>>43463477
Looking up the card text, they don't actually do that much together because Eye of the Storm/Hive Mind doesn't trigger Possibility Storm. If you control both, you decide the order of the effects.

Basicly, you get a chance to possibility storm cards away so that they don't end up in Eye of the Storm/Hivemind.
>>
>>43462020
>zombie subtype
>>
>>43463684
Serum visions is just the best we have available, it's not good. Any part of the splinter twin combo by itself is not good in a vacuum, pester mite especially. Remand is a trash counterspell, it might as well be unsummon.

>Hurr blue used to be OP
isn't there a standard thread you should be shitting up?
>>
>>43463249
Cavern of Souls does jackshit, here. The blue spell isn't countering anything.
>>
Now that we have all the EXP commanders, do you think it's worth it to run both of them in any of the wedge decks to try to double up on the counters and the payoff? Or are their conditions too narrow to exist in the same deck together?

Daxos + Meren = Abzan
Mizzix + Kalemne = Jeskai
Daxos + Kalemne = Mardu
Ezuri + Meren = Sultai
Ezuri + Mizzix = Temur
>>
>>43463906
The mardu one could work well. Get yourself to 5 EXP and you can make Kalemne as big as you like.
>>
>>43461845
Deathtouch is a primarily black ability.
Flash is a primarily blue ability.
>>
>>43463906
Meren can fit in any with any. Her exp counters are easy, she doesnt need exp counters to benefit you.

She has value no matter what.
>>
>>43463906

>Daxos + Meren = Abzan
Could have some synergy with the gods and other Enchantment Creatures.

>Mizzix + Kalemne = Jeskai
No synergy, actually work against each other. High CMC creatures and Instants/Sorceries compete for deck slots. If you run both, you'll loose triggers when the wrong legend is out.

>Daxos + Kalemne = Mardu
See above.

>Ezuri + Meren = Sultai
Most synergy of the bunch. Pump out some tokens, sac them, recurr something big, pump it next turn and swing.

>Ezuri + Mizzix = Temur
Could work. Run some Instants/Sorceries that generate tokens, then make a big dude or cast a spell with high X
>>
>>43463957
>>43464088
Mardu also lets you consistently build bigger tokens as you make them. And considering how cheap they are, that's not bad
>>
>>43463957
Would Kelemne still give you counters if you cast Scourge of Nel Toth from the grave?
>>
>>43464155
Disregard that, I misread Kalemne. I thought it was 5 power, not 5 CMC
>>
>>43464178
The CMC is still 7, you'd just be paying an alternative cost. I think it would still work
>>
>>43464178
>You may cast Scourge...
>Whenever you cast a...

Stay great at magic, /tg/
>>
I can't believe they would print a card that's a direct reference to a card on the reserved list. Not happy with the new Magus at all
>>
>>43464290
Why, do you have thirty Wheels in your binder? Suck it up, you fucking baby.
>>
>>43464181
Even if she triggered by power, the tokens wouldn't trigger her. You don't cast them, you activate an abillity that puts them into play.

I don't think running two experience generators gets you more value than having one as commander and matching your deck's theme.

I don't know if there are any good abzan enchantment decks around, but Daxos and Meren would work in them.

Well, Meren works just fine by herself anywhere.
>>
>>43464302
It's not just that. If they do that then maybe some other cards will do it as well. A consumer has a right to complain when a company doesn't respect its own policies
>>
>>43464317
>If they do that then maybe some other cards will do it as well.

Good. I hope they do. I hope this Magus is the sign of a cycle of new Magus' that are just [ridiculous Restricted List card] on a body. Get fucked.
>>
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>>43464317
It's a little late to be complaining about the magi
>>
>>43457498

Admittedly, if Gisela had double strike she'd be ridiculously easy to one-hit-kill people with, and Aurelia would probably have to be nerfed if she had double strike.
>>
>>43461411
Exiling stuff in exchange for tokens is blue.
Bouncing creatures is blue.
Would a spell that exiles all creatures, then giving everyone a 2/2 illusion token for each creature exiled, and then bouncing all creatures in play be blue?
>>
>>43464317
Planar Chaos came and went already, bitchboy.
>>
>>43464339
They were a bit looser back then, even some actual reserved list card got reprinted in from the vault products. But they said they would stop that and uphold the list firmly after they received complaints
>>
>>43464367
Good, I hope they stop giving a shit completely. Fuck your autistic ass.
>>
>>43464367
the magi honor the reserved ist
>>
>>43460900

I sort of see where he's coming from but I still disagree with it.

>>43464352

Definitely, but these two are still different. This card is definitely green.
>>
So how many cards are left out of the new 55?
>>
>>43464394
Getting around colors' weaknesses by combining in-color effects doesn't make those effects fine for the color. A Languish in Green isn't fine at all.
>>
>>43463909

Remand is a good card but it's not a good "counterspell". It's a great tempo card and it's run a lot because there's really nothing better, but it's not really an answer (blue's answers all being counterspells).
>>
>>43456929
When did "is indestructible" become "has indestructible?"
>>
>>43463909
Its not op top teir but its great I think. nobody expects it in commander in my playgroup and them casting a different spell because they dont have the mana to recast that turn is the best feeling.
>>
>>43464424
Around Avacyn Restored iirc
>>
>>43462020

I really like this card and the G/B face commander. She seems like a lot of fun, I like how she reanimates and synergizes with G/B's typical sacrifice theme. It's a tough call between her and the U/R commander.
>>
>>43464424
Around 2010.
>>
>>43464367
Even if the Magus cards did somehow bend the rules on the Restricted List, the Restricted List is not a legal contract. They don't owe you anything, you dumb consumer whore.

People like you make me glad counterfeits are getting better and better at emulating the real thing.
>>
>>43464424
m15 I believe
>>
>>43461957
Meh I'll stick with sheoldred
>>
>>43464250
I just wanted to check it wasn't some weird thing as it not working because the cost when it was being cast wasn't above 5 CMC on the stack rather than the CMC of the card itself. The whole CMC on the stack thing with the new izzet guy and spells with X costs got me confused at first and I wasn't sure
>>
>>43464418

It's not really a Languish though. The cards are still really different. Keep in mind, Kiora's Ultimate does this effect too.

>>43464424

Indestructible has been a keyword for a long time.
>>
>>43464444
Remember, black markets are the manifestation of white market failure to meet demand. White markets can destroy black markets by simply meeting demand.
>>
>>43464406
17 according to mythicspoiler. UR and WB secondaries, reprinted legends aside from WR and 9 other cards.
>>
>>43464418
It isn't languish though.

-4/-4 to all creatures, vs spawning 4/4 for all opponents creatures and fighting.

There is a world of difference in how these interact
>>
>>43464457
Why not both?
>>
>>43461957
So im looking to make a deck with her what would go well with her in terms of sac outlets and just general good synergies
>>
>>43460900
Maro is the guy who hates chaos warp, hornet queen and loves mechanics like devoid and infect.

He's turned Standard to shit, its basically an unplayable format right now.
>>
>>43464507

Awakening Zone and the new Awakening Zone seem like easy shoe ins. Any creature that likes being sacrificed and coming back.

Attrition? Seems fine to me.
>>
>>43464352
depends on the timing of the triggers on that last part desu.
>>
>>43464418
It's not a green Languish.

>triggers ETB effects
>doesn't avoid Protection/Indestructible
>fights happen, ergo can trigger some effects
>situationally gives you a bunch of 4/4s
>>
yooooo I'm about to pick up italian Azuza
>>
>>43464539

>Hornet Queen

it's a bunch of green fliers. Of course he hates it, that's pretty understandable.

>Chaos Warp

He's stated that he wouldn't mind Chaos Warp if it replaced itself with a permanent of the same type.

>Likes Devoid and Infect

What's wrong with devoid? Infect is also a fine mechanic, it's one of those mechanics that people who aren't great at the game LOVE to bitch about but it worked fine and it was never that OP.
>>
>>43464420
>>43464420
That's some sick mental gymnastics bro.
>>
>>43464507
lots of good sac outlets in black, like viscera seer and carrion feeder, plus the various altars. On top of that you can also get value off your creatures dying with grave pact and dictate of erebos.
>>
>>43464550
I think the main problem is its an expensive monogreen noncreature spell. Big green spells are supposed to be a monster not a hearthstone card.
>>
>>43464507
Awakening Zone, From Beyond, Zulaport Cutthroat, Blood Artist, that eldrazi from BfZ that lets you scry, some big eldrazi to search with From Beyond, etc.

And obviously your classics like Ashnod's Altar.
>>
>>43464317
Go fuck yourself. I hope your collection burns.
>>
>>43464507
Birthing pod
>>
>>43464418
Go away, Maro.
>>
>>43464500
Because I find green doesn't bring anything extra to the strategy. I can win perfectly fine with mono black.
It looks cool but GB always just seems to play like black but with unnecessary token producyion
>>
>>43464564
Reddit and tumblr are that way bucko.

Next you'll be telling me there is nothing wrong with the RC for commander.

>>43464597
The great Aurora and praetor's counsel say hi.
>>
>>43464481
Damn right. Sometimes the expense of fighting black markets is worth it because of the anti utility some products have for society. This is for things like advanced killing machines.

This does not apply to neckbeard card collections.

Chinaman is the hero we need, and the villain wotc deserves.
>>
>>43457217

I'd be very surprised if her and Geralf don't get reprintings for SoI. Neither is particularly overpowered as just rares.
>>
>>43464564
It's a bug, bugs are green, every goddamned bug from beetles onwards can fucking fly, bugs that can't fly are bizzare as fuck. Stop being cancer.
>>
>>43464481
If WotC was capable or willing to meet demand there wouldn't be a real need to counterfeit cards that aren't even on some idiotic "no reprint ever because babies will cry about it" list.
>>
>>43464597
Don't make me start digging through gatherer.
>>43464562
The lady can be quite fun, don't forget to pick up your Carpet of Flowers if you don't have one already.
>>
>>43464652

One of green's big weaknesses is that it's not supposed to fly. I don't get why that's so hard to understand.
>>
>>43464620
Yeah, fuck having access to Regrowth effects, ramp, actual goddamned noncreature removal, tutors that put things into play and all the other good stuff.
"But I don't need that to win!", yeah, fuck you, BG is still better than either G or B alone.
>>
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=magic/products/reprintpolicy

Is this it? The reserved list is just a page on the internet? How in the shit can that be legally binding? Delete the page and tell neckbeards to eat shit, problem solved.
>>
>>43464564
>What's wrong with devoid?
It's a fucking lazy work around to having colorless creatures that do stuff.
>>
>>43464676
Then stop printing bugs in green, they already stopped printing birds in green so why not.
>>
>>43464729
MAGIC

IS

NOT

REAL
>>
>>43464708
>ramp
Oh yea black has trouble getting mana!

Not him but you're being stupid
>>
>>43464564
>What's wrong with devoid?
It's a keyword that does nothing but let R&D be lazy as fuck.
>>
>>43464717
It's not a legally binding document, it's just something they feel they gotta do because they made a promise.
It's honestly retarded; see the Onslaught fetchlands. They still have their nice price tag even thought they were reprinted recently, while the Khans fetches are all hovering around 20.
>>
>>43464752
I think you'll find that devoid also FUCKING RUINS GATHERER WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO FIND COLOURLESS CREATURES
>>
>>43464750
But muh mana doublers! The only way you're getting any use out of those things is when you're already winning.
>>
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>>43464673
magiccards.info is less frustrating to use.
>>
>>43464717
it's not legally binding but it's something wizards follows
>>
>>43464737
Blue gets access to get everything by Maro yelling "But it makes sense from a flavor standpoint!" other colors should get the same treatment.
>>
>>43463898
I know but I thought his point was that if the blue player had 6 mana open, he wasn't gonna cast Thromak regardless if it was the new spell or just a counterspell.
>>
>>43464750
Green gives more. It's a fairly simple matter of combining the strengths of two colors being better than limiting yourself to one color most of the time. The reason to play monocolor most of the time is if that's what the commander you want limits you to, like Sheoldred. I feel like this new GB commander might be about as good as her, honestly.
>>
>>43464752

How? How are they lazy as fuck because of Devoid?

You seem like you're bitching just to bitch.
>>
>>43464763
Sometimes I feel like it just gives them a convenient excuse to not reprint stuff. They stubbornly refuse to reprint staples that aren't even on that list, like Berserk, Force of Will, and up until very recently fetchlands. When they do reprint something that costs a fortune, they put it a mythic in a limited print run product.

WotC doesn't want MtG to be accessible. They look at Standard decks costing 500$+ on average and they think that's fine.
>>
So is that it for the day? Are we only getting 2 cards?
>>
>>43457538

See, I have an Epic Experiment deck that I feel like I could use this in, but I'm not sure if it's better than Past in Flames for this.

4 Goblin Electromancer
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Guttersnipe
4 Faithless Looting
4 Manamorphose
3 Epic Experiment
3 Pyretic Ritual
3 Desperate Ritual
3 Battle Hymn
3 Past in Flames
4 Reforge the Soul
1 Grapeshot
1 Devil's Play
1 Burn at the Stake
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
1 Desolate Lighthouse
6 Island
3 Mountain

I'm wondering if I might not drop a Past in Flames and maybe the Devil's Play for a couple of Mizzix's Mastery. It seems like a great way to set up a great Epic Experiment by just making a crapton of red ritual mana, overloading that thing, and having a ton of cast triggers for Guttersnipe and the like.
>>
>>43458666

In all fairness, when Wizards chooses your channel to debut the face card of a new product, you really can't be down on it. Not if you want to keep getting access. Everyone always fluffs their previews, because they want to keep getting future spoilers.
>>
>>43464884
But dat sac ability
>>
>>43464676
Bees/Hornets are Green's avenue to break color pie on a small scale and has been that way for a while.
>Unyaro Bees
>Hornet Sting
>Killer Bees
>Unyaro Bee Sting
>Bayou Dragonfly
>Caustic Wasps
>Emerald Dragonfly
>Hawkeater Moth
>Locust Swarm
>Venomous Dragonfly
>Yavimaya Gnats

All are inefficient to their cmc and have small bodies.

These are printed infrequently and are only worth a damn when printed at rare (which has only been Hornet Queen/nest).
>>
>>43464960
Yes, Sheo brings more to the table. She also costs a lot more to cast.
>>
>>43458684

This is a trap card. It's actually pretty terrible compared to O-Ring, because it is a giant "focus me" spotlight in multiplayer. Everyone else will agree they'd rather get their good stuff back, making it a CRAPTON more likely to get nuked immediately. People love O-Ring in multiplayer because they can get favor in the game by getting rid of things that everyone agrees are the worst threat on the board. It goes a long way towards winning political goodwill if you take out some hoser card.
>>
>>43464921
Because devoid is literally only there so they can make a card, say a green beast, scrub the the beast label off, paste Eldrazi in its place and then paste devoid onto it just so it can pretend that it's keeping in line with the old RoE eldrazi and how they were all colorless outside of the drones.
>>
>>43460588

Worse Mizzium Mortars is fitting for the French.
>>
>>43464250
It's a legitimate question. Get off your fucking high horse.
>>
>>43464964

>all are inefficient

Hornet Sting is inefficient. That doesn't make it okay. You might as well use Psionic Blast and Prodigial Sorcerer to justify direct damage in blue with this list of old ass cards.

>>43464988

Colorlessness is important, anon.

>>43460588

Should have been an instant to set it apart from Miz Mortars.
>>
>>43462832

I love this kind of shit. It's something that's gonna completely turn games on heads out of nowhere.
>>
>>43464986
I disagree, I feel like if you take one good thing from each player, they wouldn't want to do anything to give other players back the advantage. I like it.
>>
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>>43464988
>mfw this only happened because they ditched Tribal and Maro even admitted to this in the article.
>>
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>>
>>43465072
seems like a fun card
>>
>>43465072
So, second copy Mass Polymorph?
>>
>>43465072
I like it.
>>
>>43465057
I stopped reading their articles a while ago, I can only absorb so much bullshit before I just give up, nowadays I just follow spoilers, pick up the cards I want, play a bit of EDH and that's about it.
>>
>>43465072
TIME TO CHEAT IN ALL THE ELDRAZI
>>
>>43465072

Seems fun. I just wish it didn't also exile your commander. I guess the "beginning of the next end step" clause is to let you cast him before you shit out a bunch of 2/xs.

>>43465091

Sure! At instant speed too.
>>
>>43465072
I swear they've used that exact flavour text before. It might have been worded in a different order though.
>>
>>43465091
No: Instant-speed Mass Polymorph. Now THIS is going in Talrand!!
>>
>>43465109
Didn't see instant the first time. Sweet.
>>
>>43465057

They ditched Tribal because tribal wasn't working out.
>>
>>43465072
So I basically run this in Ezuri, using a shitload of Sorceries/Enchantments/Instants/Artifacts to spawn tokens for his counters, then play this and grab all my big-ass beasts, leviathans and other fun stuff right from the deck?

I can dig it.
>>
>>43465106
With lots of tokens on the field.
>>
>>43465115
>make an assload of drake tokens
>cast Synthetic Destiny
>cry because your Talrand deck has no other creatures
>>
>>43465027
Yeah, I want to use it on something fun, like an opponent's overloaded cyclonic rift
>>
>>43465141
It's almost like Eldrazi have a bunch of ways to spawn cheap, tiny 0/1 or 1/1 tokens.
>>
>>43465146
I run: Tomorrow, Jin-Gitaxias, Consecrated Sphinx, Clever Impersonator, Jalira, Burnished Hart, Trinket Mage, and Guile. Playing this on the end of an opponents turn, before you untap on your turn and get all this shit at the end of your turn, will definitely win me the game.
>>
>>43464986
Only if you use it wrong. Pick targets that aren't worth giving two other cards to opponents.
>>
>>43465072
At least you can exile tokens for it
>>
>>43465126
Then you cast Sage of Hours and automatically get infinite turns.
>>
>>43465200
>no tidespout tyrant
>no stormtide leviathan
>no windreader sphinx
>fucking Jalira
>trinket mage
>guile

Holy shit Anon, what the fuck kind of talrand shitter deck are you playing?

>>43464986
People are going to less enthusiastic to kill it if you've gotten rid of other people's problem cards too, plus at 3 cmc in white there's lots of recursion for it.
>>
>>43461808
>damage doesn't matter in edh

Why do people always forget that eating 4 loyalty off of a planewalker is always relevant.
>>
>>43465200
Why not Tidespout Tyrant? You're a Tarland player so bouncing someones lands so they can't play the spells you were going to counter anyway shouldn't be a moral issue.
>>
So I love artifacts, Myr especially, but also Simic counter shenanigans/bigstuff, like Ezuri encourages.

Think there's a way to build a working Artifact Ezuri deck using Myr-generators and the like for counter generation and topping it off with big things like Tromokratis and similar heavy hitters with protections?
>>
>>43465091
This one is also a countermeasure to board wipes, though.
>>
>>43465304
Counters+answers .dec. I like it. The three cards you mentioned are done better by other cards in my deck.
>>
>>43461792

I think that's kind of true but I still think it should be Instant. It's really not that strong of an effect and it isn't exactly efficient either.

Right now other than faces the only thing it does better than Mortars is put an XP counter on your commander.
>>
>>43465380
>tidespout tyrant isn't good enough for muh special snowflake deck with generic good stuff like consecrated sphinx in it
>but a mass polymorph effect for 3 good cards is just fine


Wow, colour me impressed at your shitness.
>>
>>43457044
>>43457075

Angus is my main commander and I almost just broke my desk with my erection.
>>
Come on spoilers

I need some more stuff for Daxos....so far we saw the multiplayer O-ring and that seems to be about it.
>>
>>43465327
ehh its more of a win-more honestly. It's also too expensive for an ability that doesn't immediately give me something. Guile is already a stretch and that's why I put Jalira back in again,
>>
>>43465339
You could always use myr tokens generated for various altars or chord of calling to get out the big finishers.
>>
>>43465175
It's as if they were a swarm that overwhels you with sheer endless numbers.

As if they like to trade six 1/1s and a stolen Zulaport Cutthroat against a bomb.
As if they want to drop an 5/7 that screws the opponent for playing lands on turn 4.
As if they want to cast an awakened Part the Waterveil with only Scion mana so that they can attack with a 6/6 land twice.
Man, that was a fun draft.
>>
>>43465415
Damn I didn't say it wasn't generic. It's generic as fuck. I'm just not a fan of the card. I don't cast enough spells(as they are mostly counterspells and people get wary when I have open mana) to get enough value out of it. Plus, Tomorrow, Consecrated Sphinx, and Jin-gitaxias each win me the game on their own with the amount of advantage they give. I thought about running mass polymorph but being a sorcery kills it. Plus Cyclonic Rift is a thing.
>>
>>43465124
They ditched tribal because they didn't adapt and decided to dumb down the game. They made tribal interactions only focus on creatures.

Gnarlroot Trapper is a perfect example of this since it doesn't work with the Tribal spells from Lorwyn/Morningtide. It is purposely limited to creatures.

If you want tribal to matter you change the wording of the abilities. Like make Champion of the Parish trigger on "Human" spells instead of Human creatures.

Look at Haakon, Stromgald Scourge, and Goblin Matron. They don't look for creature cards but simply a subtype. You can grab nameless inversion with Haakon, you can grab a number of Goblin instant and sorceries with Goblin Matron.

The excuse that " it wasn't working out, because it didn't matter most of the time" is complete bullshit because they purposely limited the card interactions.
>>
>>43465428
There's hardly a shortage of good enchantments in black and white
>>
>>43457538
Being able to re-cast the three lightning bolts and one lightning helix in your graveyard from a top-deck in the mid-game makes it a great sideboard card.

Just have red elemental blast in your hand and ready to cast as a shield for it, and you've literally won the game.
>>
>>43465544
Of course, but i can still want more support for it in the new cards.
>>
>>43464337
One upvote for you, good sir.
>>
>>43465548
If the burn deck has nine mana, it's no longer mid-game, it's way past the point at which the game should be over.
>>
Evan Erwin has a Green spoiler coming out later today.
>>
>>43465568
Stay mad, collectorfag. You and yours are a blight holding back multiple formats.
>>
Could Anya group slug or stax work as a deck? I've been itching to try something new recently
>>
>>43465572
Sometimes you get drawn out into those kinds of situations in a bad match-up, which is exactly the kind of sideboard material you would want for it.
>>
>>43465574
I can't wait for him to talk like an excited high school girl and say things like "OH EM GEE" out loud with le funny meme captions in the video.
>>
>>43465600
There is no matchup in existence in Legacy where you can expect to get to 9 mana as a burn deck, and even if it does happen once in a blue moon, it's certainly not something you should ever devote a sideboard slot to.
>>
>>43465057
>>43465124
They got rid of tribal? Why?
>>
When are we gonna see the goddamn ghost dad commander?
>>
>>43465597
I think the right way to build Anya is jam every "reduce their life by half" in the deck and always have a 7/7 indestructible by the time she comes down.
>>
>>43465666

It didn't work. They have their reasons, look for it on Maro's blog.
>>
>>43465666
It didn't get used enough and there wasn't always enough flavorful reason to put it on non-creature spells
>>
>>43465706
>>43465597
It really bugs me that Anya is white. She seems way more BR than WR.
>>
>>43465666
Because R&D realized that they can earn more with less effort.
>>
>>43465706
Hidetsugu
Quietus spike
>>
>>43465719
>>43465729
That sucks, I loved tribal. I don't understand how it "wasn't working out." There were some cats in the last set that were perfect for being tribal.
>>
>>43465837
"It wasn't working out" is code for they got lazy and didn't want to do it anymore.
>>
>Wake up
>RW got another shit commander
I'm not even surprised.
>>
>>43465811
Raving Dead with Quietus Spike and Fireshrieker
>>
>>43465870
Well fuck that.

So basically we're never going to see anything from lorwyn again?
>>
>>43465837
I pretty much ranted about it here >>43465497.

Maro's explanations boil down to where does one stop making tribal spells (Innistrad was top down designed so almost every card could be justified as tribal), and few cards would interact with tribal spells. While the first point can be argued, the second point is a result of simplifying the game.
>>
>>43465898
Lorwyn polled low because people bitched about how things were "too complicated" so we weren't ever seeing anything from Lorwyn regardless.
>>
>>43465898
WOTC is determined to pretend Lorwyn never happened. Maro held a poll over which planes people wanted a return to and conveniently ignored Kamigawa and Lorwynmoor making the top five.
>>
>>43465873
I like her a bit. At least more so than anyone but Aurelia/Gisela.

I only wish she bumped your whole team or at least was always indestructible.
>>
>Mizzix's Mastery
Would I be able to use this and select Urza's Rage and use its kicker without paying for it?
>>
>>43465921
Kamigawa was great. Why are people retarded?
>>
WB and GU are pretty interesting this year, moving into less common themes.

Pretty disappointed at other colours treading old ground though.
>>
>>43465921
>>43465926
>>43465939
Ah man, this just pisses me off. Lorwyn was my favorite by far.

>too complicated
Why would anyone think it was too complicated?
>>
>>43458224
>MSRP 34.99 US
>>
>>43465979
no
you get to cast the spell
that's it
you can still pay the kicker cost when you cast it to get kicker, but you don't get it for free
>>
>>43465811
Quietus Spike needs combat damage bra.
>>
>>43465926
>>43465898
We got Lorwyn in Origins, so we won't see it again for another decade probably. Lorwyn was also hated on by people who disliked tribal and the setting/art.

Maro shat on half of the mechanics introduced during the two blocks for not being good, even though some were good but just printed on shitty cards most of the time (Kinship, Conspire). They hated Lorwyn so much that they renamed Chroma into Devotion.
>>
>>43465979

You have to pay the kicker cost.

>>43466008

It had nothing to do with that.
>>
>>43465939
To be fair "Return to Kamigawa" is a stupid meme idea. It was a shit plane during a shit time and the lore wasn't even that good.
>>
>>43466026
MSRP doesn't matter for shit unless you buy them at Target or Walmart. Card shops will gladly ignore MSRP and mark them up if WotC did something like include fetchlands. Then everyone will buy them at Target in droves until they're sold out and the only option left is card shops.
>>
>>43466054
Oh well I'm not saying use them together. Just throwing out a couple cards that could work.
Hope we get some more giants worth using in WR
>>
>>43466008
>>43466078

to expand on it, it's that tribal didn't really matter most of the time and it was too "all or nothing". Either everything had to be Tribal or nothing should be.

"The problem is, Tribals create one more thing that new players have to learn the function of within the context of the game. And what does it add in exchange? A couple of neat interactions maybe, but most of the time it doesn't really matter that much.

On top of that, how do you decide as a designer whether to make a card a Tribal or not? What's so special about Fodder Launch that makes it tutorable with Goblin Matron when Goblin Grenade isn't? Obviously Goblin Grenade was made before the Tribal type, but the point is, it's completely arbitrary, and they would rather just not use the type anymore than have to make that call with every single spell that supports a creature type, and explain to the players why they made the call; especially because the arbitrary nature of that decision means there will never be a satisfactory answer, ergo there will always be dissatisfied players."

It was a neat idea but it just wasn't working out. People calling Devoid bad because it should be Tribal is bullcrap too, especially since Devoid fundamentally changes how the spells interact with things like Protection or cards that care about color.
>>
>>43466078
I mean why would anyone think lorwyn was too complicated.
>>
Return to Odyssey!
>>
>>43466054
he didn't mean both of those things together
they both halve life totals, which turns on Anya
>>
>>43466149
I got some bad news for you

Otaria is fucked. like, massively, undeniably fucked.
>>
>>43466166
New thread I guess
>>
>>43466092
>the lore wasn't even that good
>>
>>43466142
Every bit of his explanation is bullshit.
>>
>>43466215

Why? The truth is Tribal didn't add anything to the game for the most part and you had to do it all the time and it's going to leave people unhappy anyways. Rather than deal with all of the bullshit that came with Tribal it's much easier to just not have Tribal.
>>
>>43466116
Wizards won't make any extra money that way if it's the stores marking it up.

MM15 was a naked cash grab with high MSRP.
>>
>>43466142
Too bad Protection isn't ever green anymore
>>
>>43466275

So? It's not like there's a huge swathe of protection spells still in the game, and there are still tons of cards that care about color. The truth is devoid changes how the cards play.
>>
>>43466250
>Why?
See >>43465497

What bullshit came with tribal?
>>
>>43465873
Red and white have little overlap beyond combat and to a lesser extent artifact destruction, so there isn't much room to work with
>>
>>43458307
>persist enabling general

Mike and his trike say hi.
>>
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>>43466092
>and the lore wasn't even that good.
>>
>>43466172
I know.Doesn't mean we can't go back
>>
>>43466092
>I didn't like it and therefore you shouldn't either
baka desu senpai
>>
>>43466092
The lore was great, it just had a lot of really under-powered creatures and mechanics which either didn't play well with other sets or were just completely dull and forgettable, like sweep
>>
>>43465939
But they just made a spell that was literally the aurora that fucked Lorwyn up.

I'd love to go back to Kamigawa, if the snake legend is anything to go by the mortals are all just dandy and it's been a fair amount of time since the kami war now.

Instead were going back to boring as fuck innistrad, with its shitty generic tribes and probably more divine vs demonic cluster fuck stuff.

BFZ was pretty meh after the hype died down, standard is the most expensive its been in years, the meta is totally fucked due to sets flying out the door too fast for it to settle for long.
>>
>>43466092
To be fair "battle for zendikar" was a stupid meme idea. It was a shit plane filled with shit allies and shit timmy bait creatures, the lore was none existant and the block is basically famous for three things: Fetches, JtMS and Stoneforge mystic.
>>
>>43466631
the only thing I'm excited for in return to innistrad is flashback spells.
>>
>>43466338

See >>43466250
and >>43466142
>>
>>43466679
Flashback isn't likely to come back, it was a returning mechanic last time around and they don't like to give the same plane the same returning mechanic unless its a special occasion like timespiral.

People hoping for a snapcaster reprint are going to be as disapointed as the people who hoped for enemy fetches on their home plane.

I don't agree with it but Wizards are fucking awful these days, I'm sure glad I bowed out anything but limited and commander years ago now, I don't think I could deal with magic: the creatures are now instants and sorceries with p/t.

Game keeps getting dumber too, which is really fun.
>>
>Devoid is lazy
>implying that tribal isn't just as lazy
Please people. Also, the reason that shit like Champion of the Parish has to specify human creatures is because of the Tribal subtype existing at all, and it means that they will have to specify goblin creatures or homanid creatures or contraption creatures on every card they print for the rest of time. It's basically useless text they have to add because of a mechanic they thought was cool but didn't end up really adding anything and is going to affect everything they make going forward, so understandably they are not huge fans.
>>
>>43466804
there are more fun tricks with tribal than devoid
>>
>>43466804
Hi MaRo, what shit stuff can we expect from SoI and what form of cash grab will the set have?

Also have you considered killing yourself you ugly kike piece of shit?
>>
>>43466761
Graveyard effects and death matters were both pretty big themes of the block, so as long as those are still represented with good mechanics and flavor it should be enjoyable
>>
>>43466804
It just specifies human, but there weren't any non-creature human tribal spells as they weren't a race present in Lorwyn/Shadowmoor
>>
>>43466856
Give me a werewolf legend and I'll be happy.

I feel the werewolves need a better mechanic this time around, tranform was good for most cards but the werewolves basically forced you to time walk yourself to get the more effect half of the card.
>>
>>43466693
>>43465497 explains why "it didn't matter often enough" is bullshit reasoning. The second post you quoted is copy/paste maro quotes that don't help the discussion. So basically the posts you just quoted are shit.
>>
>>43466928
There may not be as many werewolves now as Avacyn turned many into Wolfir, and I'm guessing other angels hunted down and killed a lot of the others who didn't wish to change
>>
>>43466804
Why would they have to do this because of the existence of tribal. Your post makes no sense.
>>
>>43466993
Did you watch the teaser? Avacyn is all kinds of fucked up and its heavily implied that her magic has no power anymore.

Plus in the teaser its a full moon.
>>
>>43467046
There was just a red feather what the fuck are you on about?
>>
>>43467046
So will that mean all the wolfir will have reverted to their previous werewolf selves, or that remaining werewolves are more vicious and dominant again
>>
>>43467067
Her symbol (the source of faith and protection magic for the normies of Innistrad) is shown to be warped in the trailer m8.

But yeah sure it was just a red feather, means nothing at all right?
>>
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>>43466848
>mfw I help create a fun limited environment
>mfw some cards are designed to sell the set, can't really help that
>mfw I fulfill player expectations with a legendary werewolf
>mfw people will still bitch and moan about everything that I do for the good of this game
>mfw if /tg/ ran magic it would be dead in 5 years
>mfw I'm an ugly kike piece of shit and there's nothing you can do about it
>>
>Innistrad is different not because of events in the passing of time, but because Sorin's history specifically was altered by Sarkhan's actions on Tarkir
>Shadows over Innistrad is an alternate world from Innistrad
>>
>>43467185
>some cards are designed to sell a set
>GET YOUR SUPER ULTRA RARE EXPEDITION LANDS ONLY IN BATTLE FOR ZENDIKAR BOOSTER PACKS!
>btw these cards are not legal for standard unless printed normally in the sets, have fun goys!
>>
>>43467220
To be fair, the number of people opening the packs just for expeditions and basic lands have driven down the price of everything else
>>
>>43467210
That would be an interesting idea.

I'm still hoping it's something to do with Bolas' plans, we have 3 multiverse level threats and they just keep ignoring the fact that Bolas is the number one prick in the multiverse.

>>43467257
Wizards doesn't make money from the secondary market, so that makes fuck all sense in terms of "cash grab".
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>>43467210
but Sorin went to Tarkir after Innistrad block happened, right? Only Tarkir's timeline was altered anyway, it wouldn't have affected other planes.
>>
>>43467289
>Wizards doesn't make money from the secondary market, so that makes fuck all sense in terms of "cash grab".
>To be fair, the number of people opening the packs just for expeditions and basic lands
>To be fair, the number of people opening the packs
>the number of people opening the packs
>people opening the packs
>opening the packs
>>
>>43467320
Sorin was affected by the timeskip in a way that events prior to his arrival on Tarkir have changed. In the new timeline, he knows where Nahiri is and instead of searching for her, he seems to be avoiding her as they're on poor terms.

The handwave is probably that Ugin being in a cocoon instead of being dead had a ripple effect on people he's interacted with somehow. I doubt Innistrad was actually impacted, but if another plane were to be, it'd have to be Innistrad since Zendikar is unchanged and the Planeswalkers we need to account for are Nahiri and Sorin.
>>
>>43467371
There's nothing "to be fair" about, they made a blatant cash grab for no fucking reason other than the set by itself is shit and they needed to move product.

Making stuff cheaper on the market does not excuse bad set design and perfect examples of jewery.

But I expect you'd still defend Wizards putting literal shit into the packs and selling it as "planeswalker manure".
>>
baka desu senpai
>>
desu senpai
>>
>>43461057
THEN WHY DON'T THEY EVEN GET THAT RIGHT

WHY NO HASTE ENABLING WITH +1/+0 ANTHEM OR FUCCKIN DOUBLE/FIRST STRIKE OR FUCKIN ODRIC EFFECTS OR DIRECT DAMAGE WRATHS OR AN ACTUAL SOLDIER TOKEN PRODUCER
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