Would /tg/ play a game about Native American warriors and medicine-men struggling to protect their tribes from mythical and spiritual threats even as white men encroach on their territories and complicate everything?
I'd rather play it as inspired by real life native Americans then as a historical with supernatural elements. Maybe that's splitting hairs but I think it is an important distinction.
Speaking of which, it also depends a huge deal on what kind of native American you're talking. Algonquin ain't the same as Cherokee ain't the same as Comanche ain't the same as Nootka ain't the same as Navajo.
But i'm just as interested (or even more than that) in central and south-american precolumbian politics and adventures.
From the Inuit to the Mapuche, and everything in between that's been bastardized by mayincatec stuff in popular media, America doesn't get the fantasy love it deserves.
Sure, if I don't have to pretend that the Natives were any less cruel and violent than the people who exterminated them
I mostly want to focus on the fact that the natives are familiar with the supernatural ecology of the New World, which the Europeans are naively disrupting and thus causing a ton of damage to the spiritual landscape which only Medicine Men can fix. In such a setting, clueless Native Americans would be just as dangerous to bring the England, where they'll disturb all the fairies and hobgoblins and wake up all those grumpy buried Celts.
Yes. Though I'd rather play a setting tech from Antiquity or Medieval times with cultures based on Natives. Unfortunately, I've yet to find other people who want that.
>you will never play as a warrior from the Eastern forests
>you will never defend your home as warlike nomads from the plains swoop in from the west
>you will never be forced to flee as your rivals pounce on your village in the aftermath
>you will never travel south and meet and trade with ever more advanced peoples
>you will never come to the mouth of the great river and find the not!Alexandria
>you will never sell your combat skills to their kings and travel with an expeditionary force against the not!Seleucids of Mexico
>you will never see tens of thousands of men clash in great battles in the dry highlands of central Mexico as your army sieges the enemy capital
>you will never eventually retire and be given a portion of the conquered people's land
>you will never, in your old age, wonder what became of your old home in the great forests of the North
I have to agree.
Why shoehorn in le evil white man ruining everything? Why does their own ancient history, full of their politics, wars, invasions, heroes and legends, have to always coincide with 'the white man'?
Do some research and set in North America before white man. There's enough variety in tribes for God's sake. Enough languages and creatures. Have viking relics if you want. Left-over clans of vikings who've been living in the wilderness contributing to 'little people' legends. Don't just force in ebil white man to make it edgy and controversial.
> from mythical and spiritual threats
They were genocided while they were trying to recover from an apocalyptical loss of life that pretty much unravelled their societies to the point where they could only barely hold themselves together by being liberal as fuck, Anon.
They were living in the Postapocalypse.
the white people that migrated to north america, at least in the english case, attempted to live in harmony with the indians initially and even when they were first attacked tried to not resist. eventually they were attacked so much that they had to respond in full, tribalistic collective white vs red force
so if we go by modern morality it was the red indians who initiated force against peaceful white immigrants and thus are horrible bigot racists
It's interesting how so many posters took the phrase "white men encroach on their territories" to mean "SJW SJW SJW!"
OP didn't say anything about native Americans being peaceful or in tune with nature, but people really wanted that to be the case.
The white men thing seems kind of pointless other than introduce an edgy, controversial element, though.
I mean, Native American spiritual and monstrous threats are plenty interesting without shoehorning in white settlers. How do you expect the whites to be portrayed? OP never mentioned how he'd do so, but it's not that big a stretch of the imagination go into full stereotyped demonization territory. If OP's still around I'd like to know.
You could always play some Witch Hunter with a whole group of Natives. I - at least from wholly ignorant perspective - think there's some good opportunities to play it as a Native American, and not just the typical "white man ruin everything, we not work with white man".
minus the "encroaching white man" thing, I'm thinking about doing exactly that in my next campaign. Possibly extend the world to include South American cultures too (mostly Aztec, probably)
Did it occur to anyone OP may have wanted to set the campaign during the 17th century and involve white men in it because times of great change make inherently more interesting backdrops, rather than any social agenda?
Weren't the english originally planning to give the Natives a subsidiary nation of their own right around the time of the american revolution?
then manifest destiny happened and sort of fucked that up
unfortunately* i have to agree with you but i still think that european settlers could make for a nice background addition.
set it pretty early and GM them as a force of nature rather than mordor, a new power player on the stage with which some tribes will start wars while others will trade with and profit from. play up clarke's third law, culture clashes and strife among the tribes in face of the white man's prosperity.
*unfortunately as in 'this is probably how it's gonna end up, i hate this world sometimes', not as in 'das racis'
No, he said they were fucking up the supernatural ecology. He even went on later to specify that a Native American in England would cause just as much damage by disturbing their spirits (i.e. fairies). The Europeans don't know the local spirits and their customs, so they would naturally annoy them, which causes problems. Nothing to do with Europeans being inherently more destructive or imbalanced.
they were going to block western migration across the Appalachians and guarantee native sovereignty west of that range. Who knows how long that would have held even if the Americans hadn't revolted and decided that it was all theirs, but the British guarantee of native independence was a thing a lot of Americans, wealthy and common, were mad at the Brits for since all that CHEAP LAND was being denied them.
>mfw I'm Native American and I hear retards generalizing all of the tribes as one big happy family
>mfw in reality most of the tribes were incredibly different from eachother, and the Iroquois are literally named after the slurs other tribes tossed at them
>mfw the Iroquois were bigger war mongers than a lot of the settlers were, but the settlers went and genocided more peaceful tribes while they let the less than 20k population of the Iroquois almost take over all of modern day Quebec and Ontario
things tend to follow the path of least resistance
if you were to go fuck up some people for their land who'd you choose
the peaceful folk
or the crazy warmongers everyone's terrified of?
What that guy said.
Britain and France have fought since before there has been Britain and France. Why do people assume anyone else is different?
>the white people that migrated to north america, at least in the english case, attempted to live in harmony with the indians initially
You mean the English back in England said "Don't fucking move beyond the Appalachians!" and the settlers were like: "B...but muh homesteads, muh land speculation that's going to be paid for in settler's blood!"
Bunch of the Founding Fathers made money in land speculations, so they were naturally keen on shaking off the british yoke.
>OP didn't say anything about native Americans being peaceful or in tune with nature
The coastal tribes tortured their prisoners to death ad hunted fish by dropping poison into rivers, so that idea's pretty funny.
The thing is that by the time the Iroquois slowed down they had encroached into North Virginia and they were taking out most European allies.
Which isn't to say they weren't in some twisted way justified considering they had been pushed out of their own lands shortly after the first few waves of settlers came in and armed their enemies. Things didn't really take off until Europeans started joining skirmishes, which really pissed them off and caused them to go on the war path to not only reclaim the fertile lands they had been chased away from, but to punish the people who had caused their losses in the first place.
It doesn't help that due to lack of giving a fuck combined with the fact that every native language had a different name for each tribe, things got kind of fucked up and so there was a lot of generalization. To use my example of the Iroquois once again, the "Iroquois Tribe" is actually a confederacy of five different groups of Native Americans that banded together with a surprisingly advanced political system.
im talking the initial colonial settlements that were constructed, the english when they first met them traded and generally kept quite cordial, some english were quite excited by the prospect of meeting them and tried to be nice. icr the exact case but the settlement in question was attacked and attacked, a lot of white people killed and it only was at wit's end did they contemplate taking the fight to the injuns and going full tilt instead of reluctantly defending themselves
Anyone remember the french comic about a native american warrior durring the late 17thC, where it was all from his view, interacting with all sorts of central and north american tribes, and the invader's metal armour and weapons were treated like magic? It was story timed here ages ago...
I've done it twice, as Meso american natives though.
Damn fucking straight. Hell, at their height, many early native cultures were empires with full on cities, built of several tribes (usually conquered by one, like Powhatan).
I like you.
A decent amount, depending on the culture. In general, they were very much behind the rest of the world in development (like how the Chinese had mass produced assembly line weapons while parts of Europe and Africa were still figuring out copper) so much of the culture was relatively unchanged, as most were still in a stone age technology level, with a few budding copper age tribes.
Then of course is strong oral tradition at this technological/cultural level. There were also a few north, central and south american cultures that had written language, and people who still used it to ask what it means. By the time your writing info, you tend to also record history.
Try doing an AU of North America in which Europeans, for whatever reasons were unable to settle it. Maybe there's krakens in the Atlantic or something.
As a result, civilizations progress to a classical/ dark ages level of technology (chainmail and iron swords) that sort of thing. Remember that conflict between various nations cropped up a lot, so expect the same level of conflict that we get in Medieval Europe. Also, do try to look into lore and values of various peoples.
This is interesting on a couple of levels.
Firstly, although there were numerous language in pre-Columbian America, cultural groups could be broken down into about a dozen nations. At least from an archaeological perspective.
Secondly, without the horse,what would Native combat look like in the Iron Age? European combat was dominated by cavalry until shortly after the widespread adoption of firearms, if not longer, and use of cavalry extended into WWI at minimum.
>Anyone remember the french comic about a native american warrior durring the late 17thC, where it was all from his view, interacting with all sorts of central and north american tribes, and the invader's metal armour and weapons were treated like magic? It was story timed here ages ago...
The Dance of Time? There's a belgian series that's not fantasy dealing with the same topic as well.
Does this include the Nordic colonies in the iron age, or not?
Considering how big and how varied the people of the NA continent is, we can't generalize at all.
YES! I read it as a French translation before some anon storytimed the english one.
And I didn't say it was fantasy, just that Euro technologies were treated like magic.
While I imagine that they'd give it their own spin, I figure northeast indians arms and armor would be like norse vikings: chainmail shirts (if you're lucky) straight swords and axes (especially axes, tomahawks y'know).
And not just aesthetics either. Raiding other territories for loot was always a big part of both native and norse adventuring. What's even more interesting is that both practiced adoptions: defeated captives, orphans and even warriors were taken in by the victors as one of their own after success.
The lack of horses however is indeed a big one. While they are definitely a European introduction, they changed plains culture up so much it seems like a shame to do away with them. If we're talking fantasy, then we could use some kind of magical/fictional being instead, like the Halla from Dragon Age.
Ah. I feel you. Problem is, we really can't guess at all considering that we REALLY through off their natural development. If I was to circle everthing in >>43440295 pic, that was trade goods....
For all we can guess, the northern natives would be armoured nobles on domesticated moose, the south east natives using gators in warfare, the South and central tribes who were technologically superior may have moved their empires north in to north America etc.
And yet none of them invented the wheel.
Then again, the mayans came up with the concept a Zero. And they didn't have the wheel either.
And you're right that they began to rely on a lot of trade in the later years. Textiles in particular aren't really found in North America, they all made do with hide and fur. I suppose you could import certain luxuries like linen and llama wool from down south. I'm going to go out on a lam and think that they'd figure out how to do things like iron, glass, woodwork etc. Take a look at the northwest plank houses (the Salish, Haida etc) for ideas on architecture.
>And yet none of them invented the wheel.
This always tickles me.
Like an unintentional finger to the rest of the world.
I kind of disagree with the introduction of horses, I always found plains cultures more interesting before horses.
Massive earthen fortresses placed on high points overlooking swaths of river valley and the use of enfilade before the idea occurred to Europeans.
As I consider it, the Plains would lend well to Feudal states.
On the other hand, what does one do with the West Coast? Agriculturalism is considered the backbone of societal development beyond hunter/gatherer, yet the North West had such natural resources that such developments were unnecessary.
>Then again, the mayans came up with the concept a Zero.
This is a myth, and you hear people say the same about the chinese, the greeks and the arabs. Zero is a natural development in any culture that uses basic geometry, as are negatives.
>Not realizing that the Japanese have been giant Euroboos since first contact.
The Inca, Aztec etc were leagues more advance than any tribe in the north, and the flat out thought the Spanish were gods. Flaming wands that kill farther than any arrow, giant knives made of some super hard and sharp metal, and armor made of the same.And horses. Holy shit, what is that thing?
>even as white men encroach on their territories and complicate everything?
This is your idea's weakpoint.
I'll gladly play a fantasy game inspired by pre-colombian people and legends.
I won't play pochaontas.
You want to know the real difference between the white man and the indians?
A white man looks up at the sky, and thinks, "Some day, i will travel to the stars"
An indian looks up at the stars and thinks, "I'm freezing my balls off ova here. I better go start a fire."
Fuck the indians
Fuck the matriachy
Fuck this whole shitting earth. Its nothing but a sporeheap of tradgedy and misery and in the end the cockroaches will rule the earth.
I would rather get my ass fucked by 30 aids infected niggers while drinking out of public toilet filled with used condoms while my mom turns tricks in the stall next to me than admit that there is ONE decent fucking thing on this planet that hasn't been corrupted from day one.
Nothing is innocent, no one is pure, and anyone telling you any different is selling you something.
If you were so god damn pure, why did you lose?
Tell me that. Why did you lose? Why is your fucking culture a graveyard of misery? Why did the great spirit allow this world to become such an incredible catastrafuck?
Because there is no great spirit. Because nature doesn't give a fuck about you. Cause love is shit.
I want to drown the oceans in black tar. I want chop down every tree i see. I want to pave over the grass and melt the desert into glass. I want to burn plastic and drown the world in acid and fire. Fuck this fucking rock, its a used dildo that came out of your mothers hairy cunt, its worthless, life is worthless, were all drowning in piss and for what?
So we can all get our name etched in a book no one is ever going to read.
>I would rather get my ass fucked by 30 aids infected niggers while drinking out of public toilet filled with used condoms while my mom turns tricks in the stall next to me than admit that there is ONE decent fucking thing on this planet that hasn't been corrupted from day one.
I'm unaware of any JRPG villian that sounds quite like THAT
Precisely, and in doing so, he has provided OP with an antagonist for the campaign. A delightfully hateable one, too. Plenty of opportunity for the DM to ham it up, plenty of reason for the PCs to want to fuck his shit up.
>Not fighting FOR the white men
Also best tribe(s) coming through.
>And yet none of them invented the wheel.
You understand that nobody fucking INVENTED the wheel, right? How the fuck do you INVENT a goddamn CIRCLE? You don't.
You invent the fucking AXLE, not the god damn WHEEL.
Christ what a cunt.
It's a myth that the Mayans came up with the concept of Zero, but also it's a natural occurrence that will happen with any sufficiently mathematical culture?
Get your story straight, anon.
That's probably not true. All the accounts of them being considered gods come either from the Spanish themselves or were written decades later.
Hell, everyone just treated Cortes and his army as a tool in their own political schemes, not realizing how out of hand he'd get.
He means a rounded, flat object used to make work easier. What you're saying is nobody can invent an axe because it's a wedge on a stick.
rounded flat objects are everywhere in nature. Nobody "invented" them. They are completely useless without an axle to support them.
You know what you call a "rounded, flat object" thats not attached to a fucking axle?
You call it a fucking "plate"
I've been thinking of doing this, but expanding inspiration through East and Central Asia, and making it an Eberron game in the more remote corners of Sarlona. It'd refocus colonial tensions on something other than 'ebil wite man', open up more pre-complex cultural inspiration, among some other things.
Thought about sticking it in Sarlona's northern tundra, then maybe retooling some Frostburn/Icewind Dale material for a sort of Dark Sun inversion as well.
Stop being mad that people don't like being told "your group sucks." I would seriously not recommend gaming about any issue that involves real-world group antagonism, unless it's like the Romans and the Gauls.
>ebil white man
This is the animal that killed 90% of all human life in North America, Anon. This is the harbringer of doom and the engine of the invader's Manifest Destiny.
Or at least that's how we currently explain how large swathes of North American went from: "holy shit, so many goddamn injuns" to: "Nope. Just some pigs." within a few decades.
You are either not a native English speaker, or purposefully subverting my post to attempt to save face while being incredibly pedantic.
To clarify either way, the Mayans were not the sole inventors and/or originators of the concept of zero, as it is a natural development for any culture that studies mathematics.
Its been a while since I read it. I totally don't remember that part.
Good enough for some folks! I am just spitballing theoretical ideas based on development we can never know of. Lets face it, compare a wild auroch to a modern cow, and you would never have thought that we would have domesticated them.
You can kill anyone and do anything, but without a translator/guide you're going no where.
/pol/ is a few boards over.
Found the autistic kid.
According to the natives records (and they did write about it) it was a lot like Cook's mishap in the Hawaiian islands. They came at the right religious time, and looked close enough.
Forgot my trip, just to piss off assburgers anon.
I highly doubt it.
It really doesn't help that the English and Dutch imported fucking black forest boar from Germany to try and attract more nobles with hunting. At least it gives me a hobby.
I had a setting where the colonization of North America ultimately failed.
This was for a variety of reasons, including the economy of mantaining such colonies, the ecology as the Pleistocene megafauna was still extant, and supernatural reasons, investigating why this happened was one of the possible things to do in this setting.
Whatever people were brought from the other side of the pond were simply abandoned there, and assimilated into the native civilizations.
The player characters were basically doing post-apocalyptic things, but without an Apocalypse proper, the technologies of the would-be colonists became the stuff of legend: "a stick that summons thunder you can kill a mammoth with", "floating houses", etc. - legends that the players might not immediately associate to the actual item.
>If you were so god damn pure, why did you lose?
It is the time of the gentiles, anon. And when our Lord Father says it is a nation's time, then no force on earth can challenge that.
This. No plague of apocalyptical mangitude plus widespread political unrest, no colonies.
And once Europe gets smokeless powder, they can make a bit of war on the Americans and rek them for a hundred years or so, but North America won't become white.
This. By the time the Europeans came over in force, the Americas looked like The Stand. The cities were empty, the tribes were broken. The whole Amazon was just dead.
Since humans evolved in Africa, the wildlife had more time to come up with a variety of horrific ways to destroy our lives. Reminder that to finish off Ethiopia the Italians had to resort to nerve gas.
'kay then, hold on to your seats.
The comics name is Hans Kresse's "Les peaux-rouges" or Redskins, found it under "The Indians" btw.
>"your group sucks."
You're the one who thinks that, nobody is saying it.
It's not even about morality. It's simple fucking history.
There were Native Americans here.
Now there are white people.
We took their shit and its ours now.
No amount of crying about being demonized or wronged changes that that is what happened.
Morality on the macro scale is bogus anyway. When it comes to the possession of resources, saying the Native Americans deserve this clay more than the white who came and took it is meaningless.
Anything for you /tg/, it's my pleasure.
1. I'm pretty sure I'd get so much shit wrong about whatever culture I'm trying to portray.
2. It would turn either into a leftist political circlejerk (which I'm up for, but not in lieu of an RPG session) or people justifying atrocities.
3. It would be way more fun to have players be able to play as Native Americans or white people near the end of the Old West era, where there's still tension but outright violence is a little bit less common, working together to combat some kind of supernatural threat.
>Gropey-sempai noticed me!
>kyaaaaaing like a schoolgirl internally
If you're into wild west setting comics, some series I'd recommend would be Greg & Hermann's "Comanche", Jodorowsky's "Bouncer" and Derib's "Buddy Longway".
I worked on something like this a long ass time ago. We didn't really consider a role playing aspect to it so much. There are so many interesting native minis out there we were making war bands and assigning point costs sortve like Mordheim. We set it much later though with white folks as adversaries.
as long as we got to be the cute little aztec natives fighting to save the world from the apocolypse for good while trying to keep the white man from ruining everything and keeping the natives at peace. It would be maximum final fantasy in tone.
>look for street names, only street signs
>well fuck you too captcha
>when both sides run away
The End, apparently the last page is a duplicate from >>43453816
I'm affraid I'll have to take a break, BUT I will storytime the rest, maybe tomorrow, If thread's still active I'll start here.
>If you're into wild west setting comics, some series I'd recommend would be Greg & Hermann's "Comanche", Jodorowsky's "Bouncer" and Derib's "Buddy Longway".
I translated abour five books of Buddy Longway and put them online somewhere. It's a pretty good series, at least until he goes fully retarded with the evil white people. He kinda made up for it in The Way of the Shaman (though that one's basically a picture book about pre-contact native american culture) and Red Road.
Comanche was nice as well, though it's a much more regular wild west story.
yeah, I know, Buddy's books get from mild to meh around halfway to the ending...
Fuck that bastard, good art, good stories, but there is ALWAYS an NTR scenario for the MCs, why do you do this to me Jean?
>MRW reading his books
On a semirelated note, is there any system that focuses on the characters skills rather than stats? like, instead of raising strength or finding some über macguffin weapon, you can improve your characters weapon proficiency, foes weaknesses or reaction initiative?