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/sci/ do you respect people who major out of STEM fields as being

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/sci/ do you respect people who major out of STEM fields as being intelligent/smart? If you do not, then why? Genuinely curious as a buddy of mine made it seem like most people in STEM do not respect the talent of lets say a skilled artist etc..
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>>7582706
>most people in STEM do not respect the talent of lets say a skilled artist

to be fair the opposite is often true as well. artists don't respect "pure scientists" too much

most of the time it's an issue of that you can't respect what you can't understand. before you know the breadth, intricacies and complexities of a field you can't really appreciate the aptitude the experts have. applies to plenty of subjects
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>>7582706
I guess it depends on your idea of intelligence. I value productive creativity over raw knowledge but theres a balance
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art is everything that is not science. naturally there's a bit of misunderstanding between people who skew heavily to one side or another, but it doesn't have to be that way. people at both extremes seem to be pretty insecure, which probably causes most of the shit flinging. everyone should just respect everyone else
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>>7582708
I guess what he was trying to say is that society as a whole tends to view anything out of STEM as not important or that everyone is riding STEM with no respect for other fields.
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I can respect a skilled artist. Most people who major in Arts aren't skilled at anything though/
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What does being intelligent even mean in this context? Good at math? Logic?

I like it when my fellow STEM classmates spout hubristic words about intelligence. Makes it easier to know who to avoid.
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>>7582719
>art is everything that is not science

nope
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I didn't know why people accept "STEM grads are not smarter". I guess they hate inequality. They don't even care if it is genetic or environmental, they just fucking hate inequality.
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>>7582729
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JzRXDeC3_A
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>>7582746
>I didn't know why people accept "STEM grads are not smarter
Because no one can agree on what smarter means.
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>>7582729
This
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Econ/PolSci major here and yes I'm largely retarded.
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>>7582759
You see, you are lying. We can agree on what specific and general intelligence mean. You are just plain fucking lying. I don't know why you don't have the word intelligence in your vocabulary.
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>>7582723
Interesting
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>>7582706
I'm a physics grad student, but I still do a lot of other stuff not related to physics in my spare time, like playing instruments, I draw, paint, work out, photograph and so on. And I know my limits in all of those things. I know how hard it is to excel in them. So naturally, I absolutely respect people who have talents in those directions.

On the other hand, I know that many other people in my field are arrogant assholes. They are too pussy to tell you in your face, but they think they are superior to almost everyone else. Sure, physicists probably have above average intelligence compared to other fields, but that's one thing. They still may have no personality, they still may not be able to interact with other people, they still may lack creativity and inspiration, they still may be unpresentable. Now, I know many colleagues that think those are just buzz words to make them feel bad about themselves, but those are real qualities that are incredibly valuable in real life.
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>>7582706
To get a STEM degree is essentially to admit to yourself and society that you are an aesthetically bankrupt human being and that your ultimate goal in life, besides some petty nonsense about money-making, is to subordinate yourself to the demands of society and to contribute to the quality of life of a superior minority (artists, athletes, aesthetes) who are only concerned with their own enjoyment and whose contribution to society, if any, is only incidentally and non-directly derived from such a self-centered enjoyment.

Life really is too short for that nonsense.
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>>7583144
this

stemfags get literally cucked out of all good things in life

they build all the infrastructure and tech to make shit like internet possible

then the poet and alpha jock types get all the hot girls even though they don't contribute shit to the economic prosperity that makes free sex possible

harsh but someone needs to say it out loud
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>>7582706
>/sci/ do you respect people who major out of STEM fields as being intelligent/smart?
If you mean I think they are smart just by virtue of signing up to an adult day care facility and burning their parents money the answer is no. It also happens to be that non-dedicated people do majors that aren't STEM.

If they are actually intelligent and good at what they do I respect them.
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>>7582886
A lot of people don't understand that it's okay to be superior, but being proud to a fault because of it is not okay. Lording knowledge over other people is exactly what got society into the mess it's in right now.
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>>7582719
>art is everything that is not science.
Stopped reading.
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>>7582719
A mad scientist once said, "Science is more art than science a lot of the time."

And he's right. The universe is beautiful because the universe itself is by all means beauty all-encompassing.
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>>7582759
>Because no one can agree on what smarter means.


This is how lib art majors generally behave in my experience:

>In reference to a STEM individual obviously smarter than them:
>Oh, STEM majors? Well you can't really know if they are more intelligent, how do you even define "intelligence" in the first place? IQ isn't the only intelligence. There is EQ, physical intelligence, natural intelligence...[insert more misunderstood evo psych bullshit and excuses]...and CREATIVITY, I mean of course I'm 100% guaranteed to be more creative than those STEM robots right?

>In reference to everyone else on the planet:
>HAHAHA WOW, THIS STUPID HICK DIDN'T EVEN GO TO COLLEGE, WHAT A RETARD, FEELS GOOD BEING INTELLIGENT RIGHT GUYS XDDD

Yeah no, fuck those kids.
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>>7582886
The thing about students is they can still be under the delusional that they are more intelligent than their peers because they've never been truly tested.

Once they get to the work place and have to perform in a team of people who are much smarter than them they will finally learn some humility, because everyone has flaws and fucks up every now and then.
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>>7583144
>>7583151
Is this what /lit/ types actually tell themselves?

STEM gets to enjoy far more power and wealth than any artist ever will. The richest men on the planet are all engineers who build oil, information tech., chemical and construction empires. Not all STEM grads get this, but they certainly get more money and power than you.

In addition, being a hedonist is not what everyone wants out of life, it's shallow and boring and trying to group yourselves with hard working athletes who are just your polar opposites in that regard is just pathetic.

The most you will ever get out of life is drawing a satirical comic of these people to pay for your rent.

The truth is 99% of you are unintelligent normies who will get a white collar office drone job.
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>>7583169
>STEM gets to enjoy far more power and wealth than any artist ever will.
If you consider going to a lab or office, doing some research tailored to satisfy some corporate management team or grant committee, with every sentence of your published work and kilobyte of your data subject to the scrutiny of peer review, as having power, then sure. And engineers are paid well but even the best PhD students are broke while talented artists can be successful at a much younger age.

>The richest men on the planet are all engineers who build oil, information tech., chemical and construction empires.
The richest men on the planet are all businessmen. If your end goal is really to be a businessman, it seems you'd save a lot of time and effort by studying business instead of engineering.

>In addition, being a hedonist is not what everyone wants out of life, it's shallow and boring and trying to group yourselves with hard working athletes who are just your polar opposites in that regard is just pathetic.
Enjoying one's life is important, what is it that's making you so unhappy? Are you just busy, stressed out, lonely, or what? Whatever it is I hope you get through it man.

Having an appreciation for culture and the finer aspects of life and the beautiful world we live in is far different from mindless consumptive hedonism, this should be easy enough to understand. And acting like athletes are working harder when they practice than musicians practicing an instrument, or artists practicing drawing, just because the athletes are sweating and growing muscles is truly moronic.

>The most you will ever get out of life is drawing a satirical comic of these people to pay for your rent.
The most I get out of life is making love to beautiful women and sending them home satisfied, which is worth far more than some boring high-paying corporate job.

>The truth is 99% of you are unintelligent normies who will get a white collar office drone job.
The same is true of STEM majors.
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>>7583169
STEMfag triggered
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>being so autistic that you can't find merit in people that choose career paths other than yours
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>>7583169

>STEM gets to enjoy far more power and wealth than any artist ever will. The richest men on the planet are all engineers who build oil, information tech., chemical and construction empires.

Not him but that is a relatively recent phenomenon. While historically the majority of artists have never achieve any significant wealth or power the same can also be said of scientists and mathematicians with only engineers and medical doctors enjoying any real prestige.

Even now the current prestige of STEM is propt up mostly by engineering, computer science and health care technology. With everyone else just tagging along.
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>>7582706
You know who I don't respect? People who post infantile cartoons on a Norwegian Dog Sledding board
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>>7583144
wut
I got a STEM degree because it's what I enjoy
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>>7583213
>The richest men on the planet are all businessmen. If your end goal is really to be a businessman, it seems you'd save a lot of time and effort by studying business instead of engineering.

Couldn't be more wrong and naive, what else should I expect from some idiot who couldn't get into engineering, but still wants to retain an ego though:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World's_Billionaires
>Bill Gates: Computer Science genius.
>Carlos Slim: Civil Engineer; built his company from scratch starting out doing field work
Also for special emphasis
>Graduating as a civil engineering major, Slim has stated that his mathematical prowess and his background of linear programming was a key factor in helping him gain an edge in the business world, especially when reading financial statements.[25][26][30][31][32][33][34]

>Warren Buffett: Only pure businessman in the top 10.
>Larry Ellison: CS
>Charles Koch: Bachelor of Science in general engineering in 1957, a Master of Science (M.S.) in mechanical engineering in 1958, and a second M.S. in chemical engineering in 1960.
>David H. Koch: Bachelor's (1962) and a master's degree (1963) in chemical engineering.
>Christy_Walton [Inherited wealth]
>Liliane_Bettencourt inherited company/wealth from Eugène Schueller: Chemist

If you don't screencap this and post in future threads you will at least know that you will forever be a dishonest cuck.


[cont]
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>>7583213
>>7583249
Gotta go deal with a student's shit.

I'm not done with you faggot, I will be back.

>>7583234
Google Nobel and literally any other chemist or engineer that built his wealth on oil and other chemical industries. You obviously have no idea where wealth is concentrated in the real world.


People have been making money with engineering since feudalism ended, and even before that they held the most power you could without being born into royalty, see Archimedes and such.

Poets and artists are just jesters.
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>>7583213
>And engineers are paid well but even the best PhD students are broke while talented artists can be successful at a much younger age.
When an artist has a brilliant idea, he sells a painting. When an engineer has a brilliant idea, he gets to build an empire and join the super rich.

In addition 99% of engineers will have a comfy salary most would define as "successful" at a young age, while most artists will struggle to make ends meet. The very successful ones are even rarer than billionaires in terms of high success/total people in the field/industry.

Also I find it hilarious how "success" for art types is defined as someone who gets any business at all, even if he's/her net income amounts to half an entry level engineering salary.

>Enjoying one's life is important, what is it that's making you so unhappy?
Some people find enjoyment out of making meaningful, positive contributions to the world. You find enjoyment out of endorphin bursts and spouting retarded drunk philosophy about like you are probably thinking right now [incoming: hurrr it's all subjective my life as just as important as long as I find happiness and enjoy it].

>And acting like athletes...
Musicians will never compare to the dedication of athletes. Everything you eat and do is meticulous. Athletes have a 24 hour job where they endure physical pain and suffering against human nature. Musicians have to sit still and practice a few hours a day then do whatever the fuck they want. Trying to compare the two is pathetic and shows you obviously know nothing about fitness or the sport industry.

>The same is true of STEM majors.
No it's not. Getting into STEM actually requires intelligence in the first place, 90% of the population does not even meet the minimum entrance requirements to engineering programmes and then most of those that do drop out too. Our elitism is not unfounded at all like you want to believe it is.
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>>7583249
>>7583276
good good, let the butthurt flow through you

don't worry anon, I'm sure years down the line, when you're old and tired, you'll look back and think that the money you have was definitely worth all those years spent hard at work at boring unfulfilling tasks, sitting in a classroom or office building in the dark hunched over your work while all your peers were out living their lives, meeting people, making love, and experiencing the world.

btw your attempts to make being an engineering student sound like an exclusive club as though passing calculus is such a major accomplishment are just sad.
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>>7583317
>over your work while all your peers were out living their lives, meeting people, making love, and experiencing the world.
You're rubbing shoulders with boring, cookie cutter hipsters. You mistake the fact that you're more hedonistic for happiness and experiencing life.

I'm regularly working with and getting invited to prestige events with business leaders, scientists and engineers from all around the world. Whether it's some new innovation in medicine that will lead the fight against malaria, or the physicists in charge of the multi-billion dollar project building the world's largest radio telescope.

Keep thinking your life is interesting in your eco chamber for losers. I've met you're kind. Half the people on the planet are like you living their empty little lives mostly spent drinking and being too scared to work hard and take risks to do something meaningful with their lives.
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>>7583317
Passing calc I is nothing for STEM majors.

But it's still harder to do than anything you'll ever achieve in your life time.

How does that make you feel?
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Damn, this thread is good. I didn't know /sci/ was accepting of fields outside of SDTE, but it looks like they are
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>>7583354
I meant to say STEM, wtf.
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>>7582886
>No personality, ability to connect, etc.
Of course anyone would be pissed off if you called them that. The other thing is that it feels a lot like bullying. It's something I struggle with, as I perceive anyone who is well adjusted as hostile due to my experiences growing up.
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>>7583347
> it's still harder to do than anything you'll ever achieve in your life time
Was I this dumb at your age? I shudder to think that I may have been.
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>>7582886
I'm much like you. I can't even stand talking to the other people in my program. For good intellectual conversation, I hang out with an electrician, a primary school teacher, an author specializing in the American history, and someone who makes a living selling art and knitting at craft fairs. They're all well read, have reasoned opinions on real world events, and have broad bodies of knowledge... without the (unjustified) arrogance of the people in my program. In general, I consider each of them to be more intelligent than any of the students in my classes.
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>>7583422
Name a single class in an art degree that is more difficult than calc. I and I will take you seriously.
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just lurking so far

is some liberal arts major trying to push that liberal arts is as hard as STEM?

is that what's happening?
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>>7583260

>Google Nobel and literally any other chemist or engineer that built his wealth on oil and other chemical industries. You obviously have no idea where wealth is concentrated in the real world.
>People have been making money with engineering since feudalism ended, and even before that they held the most power you could without being born into royalty, see Archimedes and such.

Anon, reading comprehension please, I just said in my post that historically engineers and medical doctors were the only one's among the sciences to receive any prestige.
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>>7583462
That's a function of teaching style. People used to flunk out of academic drawing and painting en masse, the same way they flunk out of calc, back when art had right and wrong answers.
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>>7583213
>The richest men on the planet are all businessmen. If your end goal is really to be a businessman, it seems you'd save a lot of time and effort by studying business instead of engineering.

HAHAHAHA

I actually hear this from retarded business majors all the time.

You need a business degree to run a business as much as you need a shoe tying degree to tie your shoes or an accounting degree to file your taxes. Any idiot can start a business, but not anyone can start a successful one. Business major Bill Schmoe's computer fixing service is never going to make as much money as Bill Gates' Microsoft, because Schmoe only knows business, but Gates knows business and computers. Same with every other field.

You fucking retard ahahahaha thanks for the laugh tho
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>>7583169
lmfao dam dude ur pretty butthurt
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>>7583462
have you ever tried painting something before? that shit is way more difficult than calculus.
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>>7583213
>Having an appreciation for culture and the finer aspects of life and the beautiful world
>finer aspects of life and the beautiful world
>finer aspects
>beautiful world
>understanding finer aspects of our beautiful world without understanding physics and math

shiggy.

If you don't appreciate the concrete theoretical framework upon which everything rests and still claim to appreciate the "beautiful world", then all you're really referring to parts that are superficial and easy for everyone to appreciate.

You're no different from a kid who eats every part of his meal that doesn't involve vegetables.

If you're gonna really appreciate the whole world, why leave out STEM? You're just as hypocritical as a STEM major who denies art yet claims to be whole.
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>tfw you see an anon who you agree with getting trolled but you don't want to get involved
I'm sorry.
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>>7583493
Yes, it used to be only intelligent people could get art degrees. Now every idiot and their mother can, what's your point?
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>>7583487
It's not like it's a new development. They constantly try to push that idea.
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>>7582706
Yes.
Doesn't mean that one of the most impressive talents is logical/mathematical ability.
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>>7583317
>btw your attempts to make being an engineering student sound like an exclusive club as though passing calculus is such a major accomplishment

The fact that you even interpreted his statement that way means you actually think calculus is hard. It is, only if you're retarded.

>all your peers were out living their lives, meeting people, making love, and experiencing the world.

More like:

All your peers not having enough money to do these things but doing them anyway, getting into financial trouble, being broke as fuck, living beyond one's means superficially to impress a superficial group of people, getting assraped by the IRS, getting AIDS from that hooker, protesting on wall street to get their loan for that retarded degree forgiven, getting raped by local tribesmen in Tanzania who you thought were as friendly and hippy as you are.

All those experiences you listed are only available for people who have financial freedom. The key to financial freedom is a major in STEM and precisely not the arts. What makes you even think that all STEM majors do is sit in a basement all day? I feel bad that you're too retarded to see how engineers live in Silicon Valley.
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>>7583317
>>7583345
rekt.
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>>7583547

His point is the difficulty of the curriculum is the key not the subject matter itself.

Technically Color Theory can be just as difficult as Calculus if it emphasizes necessary rigor.
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>>7583574
lolno

You can't just lax learn everything in an engineering degree while being reliable enough to work, sorry.
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>>7582773
ok what is intelligence.
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>>7583561
>All your peers not having enough money to do these things but doing them anyway, getting into financial trouble, being broke as fuck, living beyond one's means superficially to impress a superficial group of people, getting assraped by the IRS, getting AIDS from that hooker, protesting on wall street to get their loan for that retarded degree forgiven, getting raped by local tribesmen in Tanzania who you thought were as friendly and hippy as you are.
This.
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>>7583317
what a liberal arts student does when they run out of ammo: the post

screencapped
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>>7583144
>>7583151
>>7583213
>>7583317
>>7583529
Come on guys, they're not even trying.
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>>7582706
>most people in STEM do not respect the talent of lets say a skilled artist
I respect skillful artists who make stuff that wouldn't be able to do without years of practice, but I do not respect pretentious, untalented people who think that allegory is some quantifiable resource that is more valuable than gold.
Your crocheted green puddle that has a crushed Starbucks cap on top of it is not worth $500 because it represents the plight of the natural world.
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>>7583696
>But I spent 4 years paying lots of money for my English degree
>Surely everything I write is worth publishing?

The analogy I like to use is that you can spend a lot of time counting how many grains of sugar there are in a sachet.
Could anyone else do it as well or as fast you? Maybe not.

But does anybody give a single shit? Probably not.
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>>7582706
I see college as something practical. I went to college to learn technical skills and that's why i studied electrical engineering.
Most of my classes were pretty awesome. I learned a lot and i also had free time to compose music, write and read.
For me there was no use to go to college for any other deegre. I didn`t need anything too technical that i couldn`t learn by myself to make art. All i needed was my owns experiences, thoughts, emotions and literary baggage. And i think thats one reason why there are so many artists, and almost none scientist or engineer, that didn`t have any formal education. There are even a lot of architectures that never went to college, and architecture is blend of engineering/art.
Sometimes when i read something that my friends who studied letters or journalism wrote, i get really depressed. It`s really bad, cliche and they dont seem to have done anything with their lifes. They didnt learn how to work hard, they wasted a lot of time reading what they were told to read, thinking and criticizing how they were told to do. And eventhough i know there are many people who benefit from this kind of education, i feel that the true artist, the talented one, should forge his own path, experiencing his life outside of academia.
Excuse me for any grammar mistake. I am japanese and this is my first post in english.
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>>7583158
Rick and Morty is a good show.
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>>7582706
>/sci/ do you respect people who major out of STEM fields as being intelligent/smart?
I assume they're at least of average intelligence and diligent enough to complete -a- degree, and that's it until they show me otherwise.

Genuinely talented artists usually -do- get respect from STEM folks, by the way. Most of the complainers just aren't as good as they think.
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>>7583745
more like dicks and memey, reddit
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>>7583462
> class
Oh god, you kill me. Try digging a ditch some time, or coordinate building a fence with all the neighbours on your block.

But anyway, I don't know you, but I suspect you'd never make it through even an intro to English literature class. That's why I went into physics; I can't read a thousand pages of often dense information each night, and on top of that summarize, draw out the dominant themes, and make connections with other works.

History is not trivial, either. No, it's not about memorizing dates or names or trawling through massive amounts of information, though you have to do that, too. Ever read a history major's thesis? It reads exactly like a scientific thesis. There is supporting evidence for the thesis laid out in a logical way, experimental data that is controlled as best it can be, and an amount of rigour that YOU will probably never apply to anything in your life.

The bottom line is that you're young and sheltered, and you don't know shit about the real world or its difficulties, and it's hilarious to see statements like yours. Calc 1. Please.
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>>7583732
This. It's not that STEM majors necessarily disrespect people who choose to go into arts, but they disrespect people who waste time and money on a degree for arts.

You go to college to get a skill that makes you employable. That is the only purpose of college, not any of that enlightenment bullshit. If you go to college thinking you should pursue MUH DREAMS as a major, you're fucking retarded, because MUH DREAMS is not an employable major.

So basically you waste the money of whoever is paying for your education whenever you pursue a degree in arts. Eventually, the debt will all pile up since people won't be able to repay their investments and pic related happens.

So arts majors aren't as detestable for what they study as for how what they study doesn't give anyone any returns and fucks everyone up. Also due to the fact that you don't even need an art degree to make art.

tl;dr: Arts majors are detestable, slimy, morally and eventually financially bankrupt fucks who steal off society. And most arts majors aren't any more artists than you or I, which makes them even more fucking retarded than they already are.
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>>7582719
you can't be this retarded can you
>>
People who bandwagon STEM dislike things outside of it completely whereas people who are passionate and have a career in STEM respect and even delve into things outside of their field
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Science is a set of art forms that combine extreme observational realism with extremely restrictive media, prove me wrong.
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>>7583871

The burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim, dickhead.
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>>7582706
>/sci/ do you respect people who major out of STEM fields as being intelligent/smart?
yes, if they're smart
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>>7583837
>I can't read a thousand pages of often dense information each night, and on top of that summarize, draw out the dominant themes, and make connections with other works.
>I can't read

Well maybe it's not that Intro to English Literature is actually hard but you're just retarded. All you had to do was fucking read and type shit that nobody cares about. Summarize? Write something short. Dominant themes? Fucking subjective and anything goes. Connections with other works? Well if a raven is like a writing desk then any idiot could argue Hamlet is related to the tip of my penis.

>History is not trivial, either. No, it's not about memorizing dates or names

Well, no shit Sherlock.

> Ever read a history major's thesis?

Yes, tons of baseless speculation and interpretations of interpretations of interpretations of conflicting ancient documents with doubtful veracity. This one guy wrote Ancient Aliens level shit with Hitler's corpse being buried in Indonesia. I don't care how much rigor you apply when all you're working is with shit that's on shaky ground i.e. can't even be replicated. It's better make a castle with piss. When records mean whatever you want them to mean, anything goes. It's called Chinese whispers.

>The bottom line is that you're young and sheltered

Not him, but it's amusing seeing you, as a physics grad student, attempt to defend disciplines so much more inferior to your own. Are you trying to be some iconic hero in some English Literature folktale? Or perhaps a Schindler to the arts majors? Either way you're retarded.
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>>7583837
I've seen the essays that English and History students produce.
There is no rigour. They are told it is better to use more sources in less detail than fewer sources in more detail.

For a 2500 word essay they would be expected to use 12+ sources.
At that point you're lucky if you can even take 2 quotes from each one.
The opportunity for cherry-picking is so great, it's almost impossible not to.

They do not fully read the material they claim to understand, it's not physically possible in the time they spend on their work.
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>>7583837
>I can't read a thousand pages of often dense information each night, and on top of that summarize, draw out the dominant themes, and make connections with other works.

The problem is that reading thousands of pages and them summarizing it wont make you an artist. College degrees don't produce artists but they can produce engineers and scientists.
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>>7582706
Yeah. The only ones I don't are those philosopher types that try and investigate reality using Critical "Theory" and other post-modernist concoctions.
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ITT: STEM students who have no actual accomplishments attempt to feel superior to people who do. (No, passing a course is not an accomplishment.)

>>7583889
> essays
There is as much connection between an undergraduate history essay and a graduate thesis as there is between your solving some problems with the quadratic formula and a novel proof of the Abel-Ruffini theorem. Get over yourself.
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>>7583940
>A postgrad history thesis is harder than a first year undergrad calc course

No fucking shit Sherlock, I put your point into perspective
If you have to go all the way to postgrad before things even approach being rigorous, that isn't a career worth perusing imo.
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>>7583980
You seem to enjoy the use of the Sherlock metaphor, despite being so against the value of arts.

> rigorous
> imo
Well, that certainly settles it, then.
>>
>>7584023
hehehe, I ddont agree with you, but that sherlock line displays razor-wit
>>
>>7584026
that was articulated a little weird, but you get what I mean
>>
>>7583940
ITT: Arts students who have no actual accomplishments attempt to feel superior to STEM people who do. (No, fingering yourself in public is not an accomplishment.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=2&v=I9lmvX00TLY

Still, I find it amusing you decide to defend a discipline that's predominantly filled with these kinds of people. Keep trying little arts kid *pats head*.
>>
>do you respect people who major out of STEM fields as being intelligent/smart
The majority of STEM graduates IRL are actually plug-and-chug trained monkeys tbh.
>>
>>7583980
When have I ever mentioned that arts is worthless? All I'm saying is that arts majors are worthless. Can you comprehend the mutual exclusivity of those things? Painting over all the details with a broad brush - with such a lack of a sense of nuance, I doubt you would make a good scientist. What are you doing in grad school anyway?

I'd expect someone who looks up to English majors to have basic reading comprehension, but as I suspected, English majors and most of their fans really are retarded.
>>
>>7584023
>>7584514
>>
When someone says their career is hard I cringe in my soul.
>>
>>7583237
>Norwegian Dog Sledding board

The phrases employed to describe this Honolulu Mask Appreciation Board get better and better.
>>
>>7583317
>you'll look back and think that the money you have was definitely worth

I'm guessing you've never tried having no money. Well I've been rich and then poor and then rich again and I'll tell you right now: Money is definitely worth. "Can't buy happiness" my actual arse, let me tell you what money can buy: All the things. LACK of money will quickly show you all the things money were buying for you that you didn't think of.
>>
>>7583535
> I don't want to get trolled on an anonymous image board, where I can leave without consequence, or even be on both sides of a conversation at the same time without consequence

why post anything, why not just lurk?
>>
>>7583887
>Well maybe it's not that Intro to English Literature is actually hard but you're just retarded. All you had to do was fucking read and type shit that nobody cares about. Summarize? Write something short. Dominant themes? Fucking subjective and anything goes. Connections with other works? Well if a raven is like a writing desk then any idiot could argue Hamlet is related to the tip of my penis.

>It's not difficult if you're not trying

No shit Sherlock.
>>
>>7583889
>They do not fully read the material they claim to understand, it's not physically possible in the time they spend on their work.

>I don't have the skill to do what it takes so they don't either
>>
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>>7584630

>time is a skill
>>
>>7584644

Now you're getting sad.

>I can't read a page in less than an hour so it is impossible

Or maybe you need more reading skill

>Time is a skill
>>
>>7583276
>When an engineer has a brilliant idea, he gets to make someone else rich

Fixed.

Most engineers sign a contract stating that anything they create is the intellectual property of their employer.
>>
>>7583837
Fuck off with your superficial assumptions retard.

I won the award for best nationwide essay in History when I took it in high-school.

If you really believe that you can't read simple prose and analyze it which is skills you should've picked up in grade 10 then you are fucking pathetic and you should kill yourself. You will never be a good physicist because you are required to read far more in your life time.

>Ever read a history major's thesis? It reads exactly like a scientific thesis.
Yes I have and no it does not. It's understandable, the techniques are the same we used in my private high-school history class, but anyone can read contrary to reading a technical thesis.

>Ever read a history major's thesis? It reads exactly like a scientific thesis.
No, I'm a post-grad student who's sick of you little undergrad shits trying to bond with hipsters at coffee shops. Their work is simple, so is yours. You have never done anything challenging in your life and you will end up in IT based on your post.
>>
>>7584652
I don't know what beta school you went to, but statistically half the engineers at my university start their own company within 5 years of graduating.

Also the contracts are things you develop at the company using their equipment, not your own ideas develop on your own time. Watch Silicon Valley the comedy series to learn the difference, but also because it's pretty good.

And most companies either give you a huge bonus or royalties (I know a ChemE who got 80k just for optimizing a process; ie doing his goddamn job). Similarly with consulting type jobs, my Prof. once earned 60k in 3 days on a consultation for a major petro company.

Stop listening to those morons on /biz/, they are all NEETs pretending to be business owners. None of them have worked a single day in industry in their life. If you're intelligent AND precocious you can make a lot of money in engineering. Of course if you're autistic you will end up in a shitty cubicle job and be forgotten.
>>
>>7584679
>my Prof. once earned 60k in 3 days on a consultation for a major petro company.
I left out a zero.

Contracts like these are rare and only go to leading experts in the field, but that's what he got. Engineers at the company are still talking about him to this day. I know this because a friend of mine works there now.
>>
>>7584679
>If you're intelligent AND precocious you can make a lot of money in engineering

if you genuinely are intelligent and precocious you can make a lot of money in plenty of things...
>>
>>7584689
Ugh, I meant gregarious sorry. By "intelligent" I don't even mean very intelligent, above the 115+ distribution is enough, then you just need to be good at playing the game well on the business side as well (which is much easier than the technical side contrary to popular belief).

The thing is though most people who are extremely intelligent don't really care about money, they'd rather stay in academia their entire lives.

>you can make a lot of money in plenty of things...
True, but engineering arguably gives you the best tools of any major to succeed. I'm not just talking about what Slim said, you learn both technical and management skills as well the general industry practices.

I mean, that's why highly intelligent people who are already born into wealth study engineering. It's harder to succeed if you don't have that starting wealth, but if it still gives you a shot at getting to the very top if you are capable enough to use it.
>>
>>7583169
not everyone wants money and power you dullard. enjoy building me the next ipad as i impose my cock on your loved ones
>>
>>7584630
You're right, I don't have the "skill" to read fifteen 300-page books back-to-back in 2 weeks.
Neither do 99% of the English undergrads, so they skim read.
>>
>>7584754
>as i impose my cock on your loved ones

fuck

that is a great sequence of words

regards, /lit/
>>
>>7584841

>English is hard

>They must all be faking it

Good job breaking the secret code you colossal faggot.
>>
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>>7584852
You really think normal people do that much reading for one assignment?

Are all your friendos as autistic as you?
>>
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>>7584852
You seem to be combining/confusing two ideas:

>something is hard to do
>something is actually worth doing

Just because it has one of these properties, doesn't mean it has the other.

I could build a house out of toenail clippings and matchsticks. It would certainly be hard to do, much harder than using standard materials.
But I don't expect it to sell very well on the market afterwards, and most people would be right to say I wasted my time on a pointless project.

Every now and then someone might sell one of these niche houses for double or even triple the average home's market value, and everyone loses their mind.
>See, no engineer could earn that much money from one project

Of course they forget the other 999 failed attempts to get the same deal, which ended in the "artist" becoming homeless, or worse, a barista.

Expecting to do better with an arts degree rather than STEM is fine, just understand that you are playing the lottery with your life.
>>
I can respect non-STEM fields that are about actual facts and/or useful things (i.e. History, Nursing, Law), but not ones that are just "opinion brainwashing degrees" (Ethnic Studies, Sociology, Poli Sci, etc., which are not STEM despite the names)
>>
>>7584875
>You seem to be combining/confusing two ideas:

No I am not. I am only, and strictly only, refuting that one faggot who somehow tries to claim that English is simultaneously (1) too easy and (2) too hard.
>>
>>7584986
Or maybe they're just pointing out there is quite a large difference between the amount of work these students claim to do, and what they actually do.

>I had to read 15 books

probably means

>I randomly plucked a few quotes from 15 books. I only read the summaries off Wikipedia because I didn't start the assignment until 3 days before the deadline.

You don't measure a group of students by the effort put in by the very best of the class, you measure by average.
>>
>That is the only purpose of college, not any of that enlightenment bullshit.
Fuck off edgelord. Bildung is just as important as employable skills
>>
>>7585008
>Bildung is just as important as employable skills.

Ahem.

Chapman, 2015:

>Social class is largely a matter of “values”: attitudes, tastes, and opinions. What you like (or say you like) defines your class. Roughly speaking:

> - To be lower middle class, you only need to have the right general attitudes, which is easy because there’s only a handful. The most important is wanting to move up within the middle class. To do that, you know you need to be “respectable.”

> - To be middle-middle class, you need to have all the correct opinions. (You are allowed to choose the leftish set of opinions or the rightish one, of course.) This requires memorizing endless lists of taboos and shibboleths, which is a conspicuous waste of time. “The news” and the political internet are tools for this. The high cost of keeping track of all that meaningless noise, and the ease of verifying it by asking your opinion of last night’s synthetic outrage event, makes it an effective signal.

> - To be upper middle class, you need to be able to figure out, on the fly, what would be the correct opinion about things that are new to you. This requires conceptual sophistication: years of study not only of details, but also of ways to think. That is what a liberal arts education used to be for.[10]

>[10] It was also a wonderfully conspicuous waste, since it is costly and useless as preparation for any sort of productive job. Changes in the higher education funding system opened the liberal arts to the lower middle class, so now tens of millions of people have expensive educations that are useless both practically and as a class signal. This is a disaster for both individuals and society. (A liberal arts education can be valuable in other ways—but that’s outside the scope of this post!
>>
>>7585067
What is this equally edgy post supposed to show?
>>
>>7584754
Such a common and pathetic
>OH YEAH MY LORD, WELL WHILE YOU ARE BUSY RULING, MAKING THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE AND TAKING MY MONEY, I'LL BE ENJOYING MY INSIGNIFICANT LIFE FUCKING THESE PLAIN PEASANT GIRLS THANKS FOR WORKING FOR ME PERSONALLY FAGGOT

And none of your are auto Casanovas like you seem to want to believe you are, most lib art students are poor, out of shape and can barely string 2 sentences together with confidence.

Every time engineering chads enter a bar you shrivel up and start mumbling similar lines like you are now to each other in your beta corner while all the attractive women leave with the cute rich guys. This happens every single time guaranteed.
>>
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>>7584875
>homeless, or worse, a barista.
>>
>>7585067
Yeah no, your class is literally determined by your income. We have an actual, legal system defining it.
>>
1+2^{\pi}
>>
>>7585097
>Every time engineering chads enter a bar you shrivel up and start mumbling similar lines like you are now to each other in your beta corner while all the attractive women leave with the cute rich guys. This happens every single time guaranteed.

You know, one sign of a closeted homosexual is making up absurd stories of heterosexual prowess that are patently ridiculous to listeners in an attempt to compensate for insecurity with one's own sexuality.
>>
>>7585116
and this kid...what the fuck is this kid talking about

You know when people have real, real fucking stupid opinions I like to call them out for how stupid they are and how idiotic their posts are but then people come along and make posts like this that don't piss me off but are just so ridiculously stupid they make ignorant opinions seem tolerable.
>>
>>7582706
>/sci/ do you respect people who major out of STEM fields as being intelligent/smart?
>do you respect [someone] as being intelligent/smart?
>respect as being intelligent/smart?

Not if they write dumb shit like this
>>
>>7585097
lmao dude whyj are u so upset? i dont give a fuck about liberal arts, i have a bachelors degree in philosophy and now im going to a top 8 law school. deluded hunchback fuck i reap what you sow. value and objectivity granted, negligible arbitrariness in scientific theory choice aside, baysian algorithms included...now what? shared fruits of your labor are mine and his and hers you stupid disgusting gelatinous worms. new blackberry, thank you quasimodo, i cant into quantum mechanics but ill smile as she puts it on vibrate, slides it in her cunt and tells me to call her. dialing dorsy. eternal return.contributing nothing to the world fuck the world id rather make the newest slut read me some foucault as i feed her inches of cock while a fireplace screen saver warms the room through my 80 inch high definition SHARP. i reap what you sow. i suckle seven teats at once as you starve while building me the next ipad. do you faggots even talk to girls? no, you are too busy 'bettering the world'. you are the new proletarian class. expendable, products making products; plastic forks and spoons making plastic forks and spoons making plastic forks and spoons i cant who making and whos being made i spit in your graves nigger nigger cunt nigger nigger cunt nigger.
>>
>>7585127
>making up absurd stories of heterosexual prowess that are patently ridiculous to listeners in an attempt to compensate for insecurity with one's own sexuality.


Do you have proper down syndrome or did you somehow miss how the obvious hyperbole was meant to show how idiotic >>7584754's absurd stereotyping was?
>>
>>7585160
>dude
Kill yourself.

> now im going to a top 8 law school.
So you will only start earning 4 years later than me and you will still never have a salary approaching mine?

The rest of your post looks like it was written by a 12 year old, I'm not going to bother replying. Good luck at law school, you'll need it considering you're an idiot in the most oversaturated field in the States.
>>
>>7585116
>Yeah no, your class is literally determined by your income. We have an actual, legal system defining it.

All I can say is "nope.jpg"
>>
I know STEM faggs who read literature, go to art museums, enjoy music theory, are well read on history and politics and can have a good debate about it. Most PhDs fall in this category.

All /lit/core faggs I know just complain about how math is shit and bla bla bla. They always say math and science is only for use and has no beauty or pasion in it.
>>
>>7585307

I don't know why math couldn't be used as an artform. I mean they puke on canvas and sell it as abstract art, but if art is expression, idk you could pretty much express the world around yourself with formulas. It could legit be some kind of art.
>>
>>7585343
Math by itself is art. It should be cultural.

But ti be fair, it is true that it is more difficult to expose non-STEM to it as it is not visual. I mean, how do you create a museum of math? It is not impossible per se, but maybe someone has an idea. Actually, it sounds as an interesting project.
>>
>>7585179
>2015
>falling for copypasta
>>
>>7585357
Math for me is poetic. I mean, poetry is just the process of expressing things in as many ways as possible. Math is the process of expressing definitions in as many ways as possible (theorems). I hardly see the difference from a big picture point of view.
>>
>>7585365
I agree with you, my concern is how can we diffuse this as art and culture.
>>
>>7585160

>proletarian class

Can't wait until robot will make all of u useless faggots expendable.
>>
I don't look down on liberal arts majors, but you can't deny that the workload they have to put up with isn't way less compared to STEM programs.

Whether it's actually more difficult depends on the person. I can't analyze a piece of writing for deeper meaning for shit and I draw like a 5 year old, but I can write code and work with formulas.
>>
>>7583858
>Buhhh College is only good for becoming more >employable
Are you really that controlled by the economy? Have you any kind of grasp what compassion means? But, no everything that counts is money. Bullshit!
"B-but were if contributing to society!"(I think the word you looked for was production)
Society is fucked, the Economy is destroying the planet and you worry about not everybody contributing to production in a society that already consumes more than it would need.
>>
>>7585437
You have to be a complete idiot to think you're learning anything at college that you can't learn on your own.

The only reason to get a piece of paper is for bureaucratic reasons.

If you go to university for art chances are you are just some asshole who wants to feel elitist to the 50% of the population who didn't go, but you didn't actually want to do anything difficult.

You're paying for an ego boost and I find that pathetic.
>>
Art is a trade that doesn't require a degree, or a lot of knowledge to be good at it and get a job in the field. Art degrees, such as painting major, are basically throwing your money away.
>>
>>7585442
>>Your a complete idiot, to think you couldn't do this or that on your own
Besides I am not paying anything college does help you with learning don't you think? If you can do it as fast and successful then fine. But not everybody is a super-determined high intelligent born autodidact. I don't look forward to a degree. I'm looking forward learn and doing what I like and find exciting.
>>
>>7583234
>Even now the current prestige of STEM is propt up mostly by engineering, computer science and health care technology.

pretty broad, considering that engineering has a gorillion subdisciplines which overlap with pretty much all of STEM
>biotech
>chem eng
>aerospace eng
>medical eng
>civil eng
>...

engineering is the application of scientific results for practical purposes.
>>
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>>7583144
as STEM grad student I can guarantee you I have access to realms of beauty you could not possibly conceive of.

The shit people like you don't understand is that we love what we are doing, that's why we do it, and we found a way to get paid doing it.

Yes, it's difficult, but if you are truly interested in something then difficulty is not a hindrance, but merely a feature.

Enjoy not being recognized for any of your doodles (if you ever even are) until long after you are dead.
>>
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>>7585179
>>7585360

top fucking jej

Also, I'm putting off a very important assignment and grading to shitpost in this thread, how the fuck are so many of you STEM folks not working right now?

>mfw I just cucked myself and proved the aesthetes point...
>>
Im a philosophy major from a very good non-bullshit-peddling school with a second degree in dramaturgy and several secondary studies in things like political science and english lit (now looking at my masters) who very much agrees with the STEM side of this argument. Ive worked hard in my area, I think, but that's the real cincher of this whole thing. It's easy as fuck, nowadays, to graduate from some liberal arts nonsense without having learned anything of value and thus without any real sense of what value should really be given to your work (often zero, depending on the school and what you were "taught", which I put in quotes because liberal arts have declined to the point that they can hardly be called knowledge anymore, so that even hard working students fail to really learn anything more profound that the kind of stuff you can find in random blogs around the web). I don't disagree that a successful artist may have a life at least as fulfilling as that of a successful STEM major, but being a successful artist has very little to do with having bullshitted your way through some liberal arts college. Being able to market your abilities, and to recognize what is it, if anything, that makes them marketable is the biggest issue of any self-proclaimed "artist", and it's something that no one in STEM as to worry about. Sure, the mediocre ppl who graduated from STEM will probably still not have the glorious life of glory that some of the more adamant supporters of it in this thread suggest, but at least they'll have an immediately marketable ability. "Artists" have no such luxury, unless they already had it, in which case they didn't need the degree at all.

The thing is that, in the end, the crux of it lies in both focus with clarity of objective, and hard work, which everyone recognizes, but what some fail to recognize is that it could be easily argued that no "artist" with focus and clarity of objective opts for a degree in "arts" in the first place.
>>
>>7585370
I think this is already happening, I just don't think it's taken the traditional form of galleries or adopted the traditional "aesthetics" language. Positivism and logic has it's own, popular and robust venue of distribution on the internet, though mostly in text and argumentative form. This in itself is an admission of the beauty of logical thought, even if it hasn't reached the abstract realm of mathematics just yet (or, rather, head on, as there's plenty of geometry/physics-as-beauty focused youtube channels, for example, and they might not get too deep into it, but they communicate their appeal just fine, and I think it works *because* it's coated in language and rhetoric, which are still much more palatable to the broader public)
>>
>>7582706

If they're GOOD at what they do, yeah. I know someone who speaks like 5 languages fluently, someone that draws and it literally looks like a photo, someone who does amazing watercolors, and basically the best lawyer in the state. They're all really intelligent, and talented people.

My brother, by STEM definitions, is retarded, but he can play guitar better than anyone else I've ever seen. I can respect that.

However, most people aren't that talented, or passionate about anything.
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