Antinatalism has to be correct by necessity

yeah, if you're a total fucking loser.

>>38185730
truths are not qualified

>>38185730
humanity will embarrass themselves into extinction. Theres no winning this game

>>38185730
dont pretend you live for anything other than eating and fucking. You're a parasite with no freewill. The only reason you have your delusion
of grandeur is due to the fact you're a programed biological machine

>>38186014
Not that it's important, but my relationship with eating and fucking are both full of immense regret.

Creating art for its own sake, succeeding at things you put your mind to, finding cameraderie and security in your life, accumulating value, none of these things are related to those acts. They don't even fall outside of your paradigm of everything being biological machinery. You want a delusion of grandeur? I feel like the alcoholic cop from the Wire. If you aren't working, you have no reason not to be drunk. I see no reason why antinatalism wouldn't be the right answer for plenty of people here. Give me the blue pill if it means I'll go back to working and giving a damn about my life.

>>38185678
Only if you are an atheist

Meanwhile us Muslims will breed and replace atheist whiteys

>>38186458
the answer for you as everyone else is death. embrace it, because thats your final destination for eternity

Enjoy your fleshy addiction, i care not. I'd rather watch humanity kick and scream as the eternal nothing devours them

>>38185678
anti-natalism assumes that suffering is bad and that it should be minimised.
suffering is only a process that was acquired to help a creature survive and pass on its genes by detecting behaviours and stimuli that could possibly reduce its chance of reproduction or survival.

>>38188394
>suffering is only a process that was acquired to help a creature survive and pass on its genes by detecting behaviours and stimuli that could possibly reduce its chance of reproduction or survival.

knowing that will do you a lot of good in a torture chamber

>>38185678
Nothing forbids you to kill yourself faggot.

>>38188555
does not make it any less true

>>38188630

anti-natalist are looking at it realistically though. it doesn't matter what function suffering serves, the fact is the person experiencing the suffering is gonna feel like shit, that's what they aim to get rid of.

>>38188665
yeah but the other problem is quantifying what is and isn't suffering and having the authority to make that decision for everyone else.
also i don't care about utilitarianism. if i could hit a button to end suffering unilaterally i don't even know if i would. call me a bad human or whatever, but i just can't seem to care. maybe its depression maybe im just lying to myself idk

>>38185678
Fuck off Schopenhauer you're drunk

>>38188665
The problem is that a lot of the time, the sufferer would rather live with suffering because they believe there is something to make it worthwhile. It isn't your call to decide they their suffering is too great to live.

>>38188723
>yeah but the other problem is quantifying what is and isn't suffering and having the authority to make that decision for everyone else.

Oh yeah I'm not saying I agree with them, some people are glad they are born despite the suffering, but its only natural for any moral person to feel bad for the many people who are dragged from the nothingness kicking and screaming just to led miserable lives. But I think that's a decision for the individual to make for themselves. you can't blame people for following their instinct to reproduce.

>>38188799
>but its only natural for any moral person to feel bad for the many people who are dragged from the nothingness kicking and screaming just to led miserable lives.

morality is an illusion.

>>38188834

Yeah, go kill a bunch of kids and use that as your excuse in front of the judge. The fact is no one cares about your universal truths in the face of human suffering, "suffering isn't bad" won't help you one bit if you are on fire.

You guys are a bunch of faggots. If you really thought your beleifs are true you would be out there living it up,not on a finnish pokectmonster dueling site.

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>>38188901
>"suffering isn't bad" won't help you one bit if you are on fire.

You have to really believe it.

>>38189016
You are no wear near as enlightened or willed as pic related. You are as delusional as the person you are arguing with.

My life is pretty crap and I'm still ok with having existed. The only thing that would legitimately make me want to die is intense never ending physical pain. Antinatalists are just projecting their own suicidal tendencies onto everybody else.

>>38189016

Yeah that's some next level shit, most people don't get there.

Maybe its just me, but I can't look into my sons eyes and say "you have to get a job". Let alone put them at risk for all the other cosmic horrors they could face.

>>38188394
Suffering isn't bad my ass.

What kind of fucking retard are you?

>>38185678
1. Suffering and pleasure are immeasurable and impossible to compare.
2. Suffering and pleasure are not as clearly defined as antinatalists put it. Suffering can be pleasurable, pure pleasure that can be given like a pill to a person is not desired, which means that just because pleasure and happiness are not a basic state of existence does not imply that the real state of happiness is not achievable or is outnumbered by a faced suffering.

>>38189076
>Antinatalists are just projecting their own suicidal tendencies onto everybody else.

Not really, I'm just sympathetic for the losers of the world because I know what it feels like. I'm not even suicidal anymore and am even enjoying my life, but would never FORCE someone to have to reach the state that I have achieved through persistence.

>>38185678

well yeah, especially in every 3rd nation on earth pushing out kids

everyone else in financial straits shouldn't be having kids either for starters

>>38188394

bruh let me chain you up in my basement and torture you, then you can tell me all about this thing you call a "process"

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>>38188723

seeing that the worst thing in the world that we know of is physical and psychological suffering, you happen to be a literal fucking retard

>>38185678
>>38185678
Why?
If I'm a nihilist then life is meaningless, and so I might as well just do what makes me happy. And since 6 billlion years have programmed us to reproduce that's inevitably going to include reproduction

If I somehow manage to find meaning life then, great, life is worthwhile, why wouldn't I want to introduce my children to the blessing of existence?

>>38189154
only a low iq subhuman would try to ascribe a moral judgement to an automatic process

>>38189154

He has a point, but most people don't walk around viewing suffering as just a process. If you see someone in pain you help them. Anti natalist just look at the total amount of suffering incurred in one lifetime and realize that by reproducing they are basically causing all of that against the will of the sufferer. They may not light the match, but they brought the person into the world of immense possible suffering. And if you have a nihilistic view of the world and don't believe in heaven, you certainly aren't gonna cause of that for nothing.

>>38189222

weak bait faggot

>>38189259
>>38185678
Ive never fucking understood how people can make this argument.

If life is so full of suffering that oblivion is better than existence ... why the fuck are you still here? That fact that you're still here posting is proof that you don't really believe your own statements.

>>38189329
>ending life once it already exists = forcing new life to exist
I'm not saying I shouldn't kill myself, and plan on doing it sooner rather than later, but it's a lot easier to stay alive than convince yourself to kill yourself. It's also equally easy to keep your dick in your pants as it is to have kids

>>38189329
There's plenty of instances in life where people fail to act when necessary due to paralysis by fear. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have acted, they simply didn't have the emotional fortitude.

Look at dogs in the learned helplessness experiments. They won't move to free themselves of pain even when it's obvious, because it goes against the coping strategies they've learned.

By avoiding reproduction, you prevent another person from being in that terrible position.

>>38189329
>life is so full of suffering that oblivion is better than existence ... why the fuck are you still here? That fact that you're still here posting is proof that you don't really believe your own statements.

I'm not saying that life is nothing but suffering, but the fact is some people are born and know nothing but misery, they know levels of pain and despair that we can only imagine. I definitely believe that I am one of the lucky ones, I enjoy my life and I hope by the end of it I am happy to have been born, but everyone doesn't get that privilege. Knowing this, I would never take the risk of creating someone when its possible to have such a terrible fate. Even if I had kids and raised them to be happy, somewhere down the line one of your descendants could end up in a torture/rape dungeon, or die in a POW camp, or have elephant man tier deformities, or just be schizo as fuck and locked away in a mental hospital. Or worse! He could be a robot. Oh the horror!

And just imagine if hell is real, your kid burns for all eternity because we are at the mercy of demented ass god, all because you wanted to put your dick in a stinky hole and MUH GENES!

>>38189378
>>38189384
>I'm not saying I shouldn't kill myself, and plan on doing it sooner rather than later, but it's a lot easier to stay alive than convince yourself to kill yourself.
Bullshit. We live in a world filled with guns, trains, helium, tall buildings, rope, opiates and countless other ways to ensure a swft end to your life. If you truly believed your own rhetoric then you'd have already done it.

>>38189450
Equally though, you're also preventing your offspring from experiencing all the joys of existence. Maybe they'll be stuck in a torture/rape dungeon but isn't that so much less likely than the chance that they'll grow up to have an enjoyable average life, or maybe even an outstandingly happy one?
And desu, the vast majority of people going through what we might think of as unbearable hardship are able to adjust quite well. The human brain is remarkably good at considering whatever situation it experiences and sees around itself as normal - that's why poor Indian villagers can be full of smiles while lottery winners never stay happy, our brain adjusts.

>>38189644
> isn't that so much less likely than the chance that they'll grow up to have an enjoyable average life
Considering you're trying to convince robots to breed, I find that unlikely.

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>dude muh gene spreading
>genes disappear gradually due to genetic drift and outbreeding anyway
>not building a compound and having a dozen 3rd world wives and starting your own civilization
>tfw become warlord and to intelligent for anti-natalism

>>38189644
>Equally though, you're also preventing your offspring from experiencing all the joys of existence.

But then you could say every second you aren't pumping seed into a fresh egg you are committing a travesty. We have to be reasonable here, and that's why I don't hold it against people for doing what people do, fuck and reproduce. Its just a personal decision of mine to not reproduce because I don't know wtf is going on in this universe or what the depths of the suffering of my would be children could possibly be.

>And desu, the vast majority of people going through what we might think of as unbearable hardship are able to adjust quite well.

Even if that's true, that's not a risk I would take when I'm not the one who has to deal with the consequences.

>>38189644

>We live in a world filled with guns, trains, helium, tall buildings, rope, opiates and countless other ways to ensure a swft end to your life

Because the self-preservation instinct doesn't exist or anything.
We also live in a world that programs us constantly to believe that live is precious and death is scary.
Every person beyond a certain age has essentially been brainwashed by the behaviour of everyone around them to avoid suicide on a subconscious level no matter how bad shit gets.