>He doesn't believe in God >He doesn't pray everyday

>>38016078
What's wrong with sticking to a diet you ancestors survived on? Legumes and vegetarianism is a meme

>>38016101
Because it is cruel to animals, and therefore unethical.

>>38016118
What God do you worship

>praying to an entity that abandoned me and gave me a shit life

Yeah, God can go fuck himself

File: 1497241526633.jpg (107KB, 749x751px) Image search: [Google]

107KB, 749x751px

>>38016101
pic related, carnietard

File: 005_5VugHgJ.png (38KB, 268x237px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 268x237px

>>38016134
I believe in Christian Mysticism.

>>38016142
Yeah, that mindset will surely help you get through your problems.

>>38016180
Where in the Bible does it say that meat is unethical and forbidden to consume? Or is it just personal preference?

>>38016180
yeah, and God will magically fix everything right?

>>38016195
Nowhere

>>38016219
Better than to drown in your own meaninglessness

File: 001_ImvzmXJ.jpg (53KB, 300x297px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 300x297px

>>38016078
>not reading Buddhist philosophy
>not wanting to detach yourself from worldly matters
>not wanting to renounce all material objects
>still living like a normie in a consumerist society

>>38016078
>Implying any of those things give objective meaning to life
No and I'm fine with life being meaningless.

>>38016363
Normie. Fuck off. Kill yourself, nihilistcuck. That's why none of you fucking robots can ever change. You are resistent to productive changes to your own selves

>>38016078
And what is the cause you fight for? anime loving faggot


And how it feels to have a goal you will never fulfill ?

>>38016405
I see no point in killing myself, and I also din't want to. So I'll keep living. Life is interesting enough.

>>38016405
???
called him normie and robot in the same sentence
you're a reddittor aren't you?

>>38016240
I'm to self aware enough to believe in something like that. Life may be meaningless, but it's better then just praying and worshipping nothingness.

>>38016428
No. I am just a horrible shitposter

>>38016522
You don't need to be dumb to believe in God. See the best mathematicians and philosopher and physicists have been religious. I bet you are one of those fucking fedorafags who think they are smart because they don't believe in God. Fuck off and go read some theology and philosophy and you will fucking learn that the belief in God is completely in agreement with intelligent minds. It is just the fucking type of normie Christianity that ruins everything.

File: 1497768864027.jpg (43KB, 600x609px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 600x609px

Post christ-chan.

originari

>>38016078
Vegetarianism is really really dumb

File: 1492744354663.jpg (28KB, 480x270px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 480x270px

>>38016695
Fuck off, normie meat-eater

File: IMG_1710.jpg (417KB, 1080x1350px) Image search: [Google]

417KB, 1080x1350px

>>38016448
I think this is where most people get it wrong with god. I personally am an agnostic, but see the merits of religion. When people pray and believe in a higher power, they become almost hyper aware of the issues they have, as a self defense, because they know that god is perfect and they are not. Whatever problems or insecurities they have manifest themselves as sin because god is free of sin. In that sense, they can strive towards that goal and be pushed to it to become a better person. Of course the history and culture of religion along with the communal ties it brings also helps greatly.

>>38016736
You're right anon. originari.

Have you ever read Kierkegaard?

Does God watch me masturbate? This is an originally important question

>>38016758
Maybe yes, maybe not. It doesn't matter. The idea that masturbation is a sin was a meme created by priests. There is nowhere in the Bible that says that masturbating is a sin.

>>38016807
Nice, do you think God is a lewdboi?

File: __gerudo_link_and_link_the_legend_of_zelda_and_the_legend_of_zelda_breath_of_the_wild_drawn_by_maruchi__sample-7bcec7373b7494d5824ed4c9e319a96c.jpg (146KB, 850x1243px) Image search: [Google]

146KB, 850x1243px

>>38016816
I think he is a really cute trap

>>38016807
you just dont get the historical context of scripture do you?

File: Ayy.png (506KB, 794x483px) Image search: [Google]

506KB, 794x483px

>He believes in an old book written by non-whites

>>38016747
I have a shallow understanding of most of the pioneers of nihilism. Good reminder though, should probably get on that soon, thanks anon :)

>>38016949
Fuck you. I have my own interpretation of the Bible.

>>38016998
Oop existentialist* oTL

File: 1498657088544.jpg (26KB, 360x360px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 360x360px

>>38016995
>He believes that there is no metaphysical force that moves nature.

KEK

>>38017095
Why should I. And Why should I care about said force. And why should I personify said hypothetical "force"

File: 1497472635387.gif (2MB, 300x225px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 300x225px

>>38016078

>accepting stock, ready made stop-gap answers to life's fundamental questions of existence
>being this dick deep in herd mentality
>committing philosophical suicide

ishiggydiggyniggy

>>38017115
Well, the creators of religious texts most likely personified the idea of the perfect and omniscient to give the common people an easy way to understand this metaphysical force. It lends itself to approachability but people have to understand that the deeper messages are what we're important.

>>38017182
Still don't see why I should believe in or worship the hypothetical "force".
Why would you describe it as a "force"? What are you talking about?
Wait do you want me to be a jedi or something?

>>38017153
tfw to intelligent
oribinal :DDD

>>38017153
>He thinks that all of christianity is just about herd mentality churches and pastors
>He doesn't know existential christian philosophers like Kierkegaard, Thomas Merton, Thomas Kempis, Gabriel Marcel and others
>He has never read a book of theology
>He doesn't know about Christian Mysticism
>He doesn't know that the only way you could actually live a truly existential life is through devotion and dedication to religion instead of faux hippie existentialists like Camus

You are the fucking sheep, normie
Fuck off, normie

>>38016101
Paleo with reduced meat consumption is ideal.

File: disdain.jpg (8KB, 209x241px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 209x241px

>>38017153
Fuck you, normie fedora atheist fag.

read this >>38017268

File: 1497472484395-r9k.jpg (30KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 600x600px

> 2017
> worship the kike on the stick
> not believe in old Gods

>>38017236
Again it's not the worship that's really important. It's the fact that humans can imagine a perfect version of themselves and so overcome whatever shortcomings they are believed to have as best they can. Religion in the old days had the dual purpose of being both a social tool to control whilst also being a gateway for the betterment of individuals.

I don't want you to be a Jedi, but believe in the idea that in the face of something beyond our understanding, creator or universe or whatever, humans thrive. Biologically this can even be explained through the relative emotions we feel. When we become petty and compare to others, we are forgetting that there is something we can imagine to be so magnificently greater to compare to that such actions or thoughts become meaningless. I believe that to be the underlying strength that religion provides for many people.

>>38017379
You've lost me. I'm a perfectionist and can't handle comparing myself to others. I see no reason to either.

File: IMG_1777.jpg (259KB, 1361x2048px) Image search: [Google]

259KB, 1361x2048px

>>38017409
Well if you have the strength to exist in the world without belief I personally believe that to be fine. It's just that most humans are weak. Souls that have been beaten down and lost. Some do find solace in communing with their idea of god and I think that's great too.

File: 18595166_1883126135233845_3065833948318328508_o.jpg (138KB, 1442x1184px) Image search: [Google]

138KB, 1442x1184px

>>38017493
Yeah. There is so much suffering this world that it is really difficult NOT to believe in God. You fucking need something to rest on, something to hold on, because if you don't, how can you go on living?

File: hmm.png (53KB, 200x200px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 200x200px

>>38016118
We are carnivorous animals, thus not eating other animals is cruel to oneself.

Your move.

File: IMG_1721.jpg (81KB, 338x600px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 338x600px

>>38017563
I agree as well. I've really come around since I believed that religion only offered explanations when science couldn't, but I think in this age of widespread isolation and weak character, it might be even more needed than ever.

>>38017599
On the contrary, frogposter. Not eating other animals is not cruel to yourself, it is good to yourself actually. Eating meat is bad for your health. That is scientifically proven. But you probably already know this and only posted your post as bait.

>>38017493
>>38017563
>>38017607
I get that some people need god and I don't advocate for atheism, I just don't get when the religious try to reconvert atheists or shame them into belief.

>>38017003
>There is nowhere in the Bible
>Fuck you. I have my own interpretation of the Bible.
Yeah keep believing in your delusions, faggot.

>>38017717
Anon, are you stupid? We are not here trying to convert anyone. We are not going out knocking on people's doors. This is fucking/ r9k/, the place where we shitpost. It is all anonymous, so we can't force no one to do anything. If you would convert, it would be of your own free will, nothing else.

>>38016078
>He doesn't believe in God
Why would I waste my time believing in a myth?

>>38017778
I didn't expect religiousposters to be the type to shitpost.

>>38016405
>preaching for god while insulting others
This is exactly why you religionfags are cancer.

>>38017813
Are you retarded? How the fuck would I not insult other people on 4chan, and in r9k even. Fuck off, newfag.

>>38017832
My point is that you're preaching about muh religion while being an asshole.

File: 1437694721668.gif (2MB, 450x243px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 450x243px

>he makes this thread again
>people respond to it, again

>>38017563

If you need to channel your suffering into catharsis, and find anxiety relief in the face of meaninglessness, religion is perfect for you!

File: 1491943593497.jpg (34KB, 499x499px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 499x499px

>>38017799
Because this myth will set you free and bring happiness to your otherwise shitty excuse for an existence.

File: 1497156048299.jpg (41KB, 396x382px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 396x382px

>>38017849
Go shitpost somewhere else, redditor

>>38017858
What makes you think I'm not happy and that my reason for existence is shitty? You don't know me. What would make me miserable is dedicating my life to something that does not exist.

>>38017717
lol I'm the anon who posted >>38016736
I'm an agnostic. You were asking for explanations and I was trying to give them to you. You asked why you should care and I tried to give you the opposing view.

File: 1492867083617.png (179KB, 400x350px) Image search: [Google]

179KB, 400x350px

>>38017899
>What makes you think I'm not happy
>browsing on /r9k/

KEK

>>38017948
>implying im not here to laugh at you

>>38017493
Why do you believe in God Anon? What lead you to the views you hold right now?

>>38017563
>>38017607
Doesn't that feel like a cop out though? Maybe life really is so terrible for Humans that they should end themselves to alleviate their suffering.

File: 1491334853107.png (1MB, 684x1766px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 684x1766px

>>38018257
*hands a copy of The Gospel in Brief by Leo Tolstoy*

File: IMG_1853.jpg (395KB, 830x1024px) Image search: [Google]

395KB, 830x1024px

>>38018257
I actually made these 4 posts

>>38017607
>>38017493
>>38017379
>>38016736

So I'm an agnostic. While I don't believe that someone is out there listening to all my problems, I do believe at least acknowledgement of a beyond allows one to better themselves through humility and knowledge of where the edge of our understanding lies. I used think that religion had outlived its purpose but have come to realize that human weakness just is, and many find solace in it. I was mainly fascinated by how religion was used in philosophical and entertainment media but found truth in its deeper meanings.

Concerning the kys portion, desu anon I can see it. On the one hand, those who believe too stringently in an afterlife find little meaning in this world and look forward to the next. But I don't advocate for those kinds of interpretations, rather ones that are mentioned in my first post here >>38016736. You can say that I believe and try to understand the truth of the world but finding it hard to do on my own, use religion as a methods of self reflection and support to try and weather the storm.

File: 1465905130626.gif (349KB, 350x233px) Image search: [Google]

349KB, 350x233px

>>38017866
terrible projection, reddit scum

File: 18221999_1479190408779247_5028238330436140484_n.png (105KB, 219x304px) Image search: [Google]

105KB, 219x304px

>>38018585
Stop discussing about the literal existence of god. It just isn't provable. There is nothing that can prove or even suggest the existence of God. The question of religion is much more than just the argument of whether God exists or not. The true existential devout religious person simply doesn't know if God exists or not. His faith is only faith because he believes even when he doesn't know if God exists. The true faith is one where there is doubt. But this doubt is overcome by the belief in God, not the knowledge of him, but the belief and faith of Him.

File: 1497496595725.png (404KB, 588x598px) Image search: [Google]

404KB, 588x598px

>>38016078
>all suffering comes from wanting things and being attached to things
...like having children, wanting sex, and being attached to a significant other.

>>38017299
>fuck you!
>read this
irony man

>>38018848
OP here. Exactly, as you said.

originari

>>38018886

I made that because I forgot to post the pic
originari

originari

>>38018728
I never did, did I? I just said that acknowledging the possibility instead of ignoring the possibility all together can shift world views. That's not trying to prove the existence of the creator or not, it's trying to introduce the notion that it's possible at all.

>>38018585
Interesting. Do you choose a certain religion to try to better yourself with or do you not differentiate between religions?

>>38018728
I understand that the existence of god cannot be proven using the scientific method, but any religious people must have other reasons for believing in him, otherwise they wouldn't believe. What are your reasons for belief?

for the modern man suffering comes from isolation and his inherit lack of purpose, religion has no place in today's society

religion is a coping mechanism for the weak who don't have the courage to fight for what they want

>>38018923
> What are your reasons for belief?

To have some faith when everything else seems meaningless

To give meaning to life when nothing else can

To give me strength to keep living

To help me change my ways of living

To wake up at the morning and thank God whilst a great optimism fills my heart and feeling Euphoric

To enter Gothic Churches and pray while listening to Christian Music and seeing the transcendental beauty of classical sculpture, thus making me cry in the awe of the glory of god in the process.

etc.

File: GlaDv3N.jpg (104KB, 500x637px) Image search: [Google]

104KB, 500x637px

>May all robots be happy
>May all robots be healthy
>May all robots be free from delusions and suffering

File: IMG_1625.jpg (217KB, 1080x1080px) Image search: [Google]

217KB, 1080x1080px

>>38018923
I try to take the underlying messages that Christianity has to offer for now, but I'm relatively new to studying religion so I'll probably be reading up on more in the future. Personally, I have a fondness for religions with local gods like Shintoism or Paganism so I might dabble there next.

File: 17342608_1432042243494064_3295747891077241540_n.jpg (22KB, 476x380px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 476x380px

>>38018899
>That's not trying to prove the existence of the creator or not, it's trying to introduce the notion that it's possible

Yeah, sorry. You really werent talking about the existence of God. Only the idea.

>>38019056
Nice Wojak. Will save it.

>>38019009
Get out Nihilistcuck. Go read Nietzsche and fuck off. Every person that I have ever met and says that bullshit about religion not being needed are either edgy teenagers or fucking losers fedorafags in their basements. Nihilist fags never get to accomplish anything because they keep drowning in their own misery. You can't change yourself that way.

>>38019032
All of those feelings can be achieved by an adherent to a different faith. Aren't you concerned that what you believe in is the truth as opposed to what other faiths believe in?

File: 1475398849011.png (109KB, 230x230px) Image search: [Google]

109KB, 230x230px

>>38016078
I dunno.
At what moment do you realize believing in fantastical things that just don't exist in our perception to be real is easier than believing in making a difference in our reality?

>>38019143
No.

Christianity is objectively the most beautiful religion in existence. (Buddhism is just as good or better, but not as beautiful)

The only reason Christianity gets so much shit is because it has been ruined by fucking normies who go out of their ways due to their superstitions but have never even bothered to read the full Bible and to read the old philosophers of the time.

Fucking normies ruining my religion.

>>38019164
>that just don't exist in our perception

Only to the uninitiated :)

>>38019183
So is Beauty the requirement for Truth? How can other people experience your subjective appreciation of Beauty and arrive at the same conclusion as you? What factors do you use for judging the Beauty of a religion, and how are those factors linked to Truth?

>>38019132
what have you accomplished besides distracting yourself from the eternal abyss?

File: 1441144471045.jpg (47KB, 500x568px) Image search: [Google]

47KB, 500x568px

>>38019183
>objectively the most beautiful

>>38019258
True religion isn't about distracting yourself from the abyss. It's about facing it and accepting it.

God hides behind all things, after all.

>>38019164
I feel that to be wholly incorrect anon. Some of the greatest scientists and philosophers of history have been devout men. Religious men have also created beautifully crafted gothic churches and music that still draws eyes and ears today.

>>38019309
Nonsense. Atheism is about facing and accepting it. Religion deludes you into believing death isn't the end. Without religion, you're forced to make peace with death as best you can.

>>38019309
Unfortunately I feel most of the anons aren't getting that religion gives strength to face the void, not run from it.

>>38019183
>the full Bible
>beautiful
and that's how I know you're full of shit

File: 1492742923620.jpg (20KB, 720x533px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 720x533px

>>38019164
>things that just don't exist in our perception to be real

That's not a fucking argument. There are countless things of which we have no close contact of perception with. Take for example, Venus, you might have seen it in some form (or believe that you have seen) but you cannot PROVE that it actually exists besides your sight-seeing it, but still you choose to believe that it actually exists as a planet. Or the existence of qualia and subjective perceptions of other people, you have NO proof that they exist, (if you are too ignorant to know what qualia is and what I am talking about, read something about David Chalmers) but you STILL choose to believe. The same is with God, I have no contact with him, but I STILL choose to believe, even in the face of doubt, even in the face of adversity, even when all of the world comes crumbling down on me. I shall still believe to the very end.

File: 1475399984697.jpg (69KB, 1001x683px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 1001x683px

>>38019319
The fact that many great men also believed, in some extent, to god doesn't really repeal my argument afaik. I think they were great inventors and thinkers despite, more than because of.
Religion and pointless routines and superficial restrictions are an easy way out. People with integrity and some backbone go the harder way of accepting what is, and finding meaning, purpose and joy in what we have and are in a cosmic sense.

File: El_Greco_-_Las_lágrimas_de_San_Pedro.jpg (45KB, 483x500px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 483x500px

>>38019284
When I say most beautiful, I mean this.

>>38019356
Belief in an afterlife doesn't preclude someone from fear of death. Death is the source of our darkest fears and insanities, no matter whether you believe if it's the end or not.

>>38019395
This is utter bullshit. Science is the best POSSIBLE means of discerning concrete objectivity we have within our epistemic limits. I have empirical evidence that Venus exists. When it comes to god(s) we don't have shit. No empirical evidence, no cogent argument, not even an agreed-upon definition of what god(s) is/are.

Thinking belief in scientifically-discerned empirical fact with practical application and/or demonstrability in the real world as best we can possibly tell and belief in god(s) with literally no good reason to are in any way equatable makes you a god damn drooling half-wit.

>>38019383
The Bible is an incredibly textured and wonderful book, anon. Don't let the common meme perception of it being a book of an angry sky god cloud your view of it; there is much subtle allegory and inner wisdom within it.

And I say all this as a Buddhist.

>>38016118
Nature is cruel to animals, what with the whole dynamic of predator and prey.

Is that unethical as well? Just because we're at the top of the food chain doesn't mean we're above nature.

File: 33a2d492ecace03c43e25af434cf01a5.jpg (790KB, 580x716px) Image search: [Google]

790KB, 580x716px

>>38019440
but that art is shit

>>38019478
Not that anon but someone else.

I'll ask you a question - have you ever seen a horror movie?

>>38019443
If you have complete and sincere belief in an afterlife, yes it does. People who kill themselves in suicide bombings are enveloped in religious ecstasy. Just watch videos of jihadists before they go out and kill themselves. Happiest people you've ever seen.

>>38019532
Get to your point, faggot. No one gives a shit about your probably terrible thought-paths.

File: 18056322_1870366823176443_337965721991351639_o.jpg (102KB, 917x960px) Image search: [Google]

102KB, 917x960px

And this too.

>>38019424

>People with integrity and some backbone go the harder way of accepting what is, and finding meaning, purpose and joy in what we have and are in a cosmic sense.

KEK. These are all Fedorafags who think they are being rebels by not believing in God.

The simple fact is, many of those great men that believed in God did not necessarily had to believe and be so devout. Take Isaac Newton, he studied thoroughly studied theology and even made many remarks on the bible etc. that last to this day. Of course, he would be christian, but he DIDN'T NEED to be a theologian, just like Blaise Pascal. Or take, the greatest philosophers, like Karl Popper, Ludwig Wittgenstein (who self-proclaimed very religious), Kurt Godel (one of the greatest mathematicians of all time and philosophers) who even tried to make an ontological proof of God etc. Most of the christian normies that we see around are sheep, but the few that are devoutly religious use to be very intelligent and the philosophers who are devout are even more intelligent.

>>38019395
In a right night, I can sigh Venus with my bare eyes. I also can draw a factually based hypothesis that what I see is what I think it is because the scientific method of constant reevaluation, improvement and open critique of things we might consider set facts has created an hypothesis everyone can follow through and address if they want.
Instead of, you know.

File: IMG_1451.jpg (168KB, 1200x800px) Image search: [Google]

168KB, 1200x800px

>>38019424
I think a surface analysis of religion does that. A cursory glance tells you a jealous man killed his brother or a mystical animal protected these people and we must do x. But, understanding the deeper messages of those tales reveal much of the human condition. I'm the agnostic anon so you can see my views above but I basically think that religion provides a hard look into humanity and am fine with people who can find strength on their own, but for many, the universe's scope is just far too much to burden on their own.

I do believe that religion does have drawbacks though, because cruel people can use religion to feed false hope. Humans generally turn to religion in their darkest and most vulnerable times making it both something that can provide great strength but also leaves room for great cruelty, I will not deny that.

>>38019550
>Happiest people you've ever seen.
On one level, perhaps. But deep down, in the deepest recesses of the spirit, they're in unimaginable agony.

>>38019569
Well, okay then. You've seen a horror film, and it more than likely caused some sort of emotional reaction in you - fear, agitation, anxiety, whatever. Yet you knew from the start what you were watching wasn't "real." How can something that's not real cause these emotions to arise? Well, what if it the monster that you saw on that screen was, in fact, real? Sure, it might not be *physical*, but physical reality is only the shallowest of facets of this world of ours. There are so, so, so many things out there that have an affect on the human psyche that aren't material that's it's borderline insanity to assume that the only way of understanding reality is through the material sciences.

Pagan gods act as ways of conceptualising forces of nature. Buddhist gods act as ways of conceptualising forces within the mind. The Abrahamic God in a way acts a way of conceptualising the notion of Self. I'm afraid this explanation will go over your head, but the point is that the human mind, by just about all except the a few isolated metrics, doesn't perceive the world in a rationalist, material way. That is, at least in my experience, the point of true religion - to get us to be able to perceive things beyond this mundane physical worldspace using concepts we're familiar with.

File: 20130730.png (225KB, 648x906px) Image search: [Google]

225KB, 648x906px

>>38019595
>muh Isaac Newton wuz a Christian!

Yeah, he was also a practicing alchemist... In fact, he wrote more about theology and alchemy than he ever did about physics.

Did his brilliant insights into the laws of motion validate his belief in the Christian religion? No. No more than they validate his belief that you can magically turn lead into gold.

It's very possible for otherwise intelligent people to be dead wrong and delusional. It happens all the time. No one's immune to compartmentalized thinking and intellectual dishonesty.

>>38019700
Alchemy is far more than just trying to turn "lead into gold," my friend. If anything, such a concept acts as more of a metaphor.

>>38019595
How is Isaac Newton's, and other's that you mentioned, religiousness relevant in their secular endeavours and achievements anyway?

>>38019503
I don't find stories of hatred and revenge to be beautiful.

>>38019503
Most of the anons here who easily dismiss religion and gods seem to be people who only have a shallow understanding of religion.

If anyone wants a really easy foray into religion, Jordan Peterson did a pretty great series on religion which can get you started on understanding the deeper meanings. It's a fascinating blend of the sciences as well as religion for those who are a bit wary of religion in general. Then probably foray into your own interpretation of the Bible and branch out from there.

File: 43214325465.png (80KB, 500x777px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 500x777px

>>38019478
>>38019599
No they are not.

First of all, neither of you are scientists, second of all, even if it is proven scientifically that Venus, as a planet, exists, it doesn't mean that it is proven in any other way other than through that scientific method. And we all know that science goes through reforms and errs at times, and then is renewed. Third, even if it were proved, without a doubt, scientifically that it existed, it would be on very shaky grounds in philosophical terms indeed. For there is no way whatsoever that we can prove that solipsism (look it up if you don't know) isn't true. Everything may or may not come into existence as you see it, and that cannot be scientifically proven false. Fifth, even if solipism is not true, the world might or might not be some form of illusion or simulation by some supercomputer (look Elon Musk and Nick Bostrom) and would make the objective existence of Venus false.

You faggots sound like those fucking 9gaggers that know nothing of philosophy or theology and go around talking shit about religion on the comments

>>38019690
>deep down, in the deepest recesses of the spirit, they're in unimaginable agony

lol and you know this how? Don't resort to blatantly pulling shit out of your ass, moron.

>How can something that's not real cause these emotions to arise?

Because empathy is tied to the imagination. It's not that difficult.

>ways of conceptualising

Maybe in the very beginning our ideas of gods were only seen as ideas, but to say that's how they been most of the time is plain dishonest. You know and I know they're commonly seen as real, concrete entities which control nature and our minds. If most people only entertained such ideas as metaphor instead of believing in them as real beings, we'd be much further along as a civilization.

>I'm afraid this explanation will go over your head

You're a pretentious pseudo-intellectual moron.

>>38019642
Many need religion or something of a similar crutch to cope with the world, sure. And I also agree christianity provides a good moral code to live by.
I just feel we shouldn't need that crutch to lean on at this point, or even better, beat others with a crutch for not carrying said crutch because they can handle without it.

>>38019728
It is relevant because it shows the psychology of people that are truly devout is in full agreement with genius and intellectual and philosophical achievement.

File: IMG_1747.jpg (106KB, 720x1079px) Image search: [Google]

106KB, 720x1079px

>>38019785
Then you are afraid to face facts about yourself. The Milgram and Stanford Prison experiments show that anyone can turn sinister and perform vile acts, so why not try to understand the human condition rather than run from it?

>>38019797
>>38019799
>>38019808
>no, YOU don't know what you're talking about
maybe if I use bigger words than everyone else here, I'll win the internet argument

>>38019857
Fuck off 9gagger

>>38019799
So you are saying that because religion isn't open for review and is based on things that can't technically be proven untrue, it has to be true and real?

>>38019728
The division between "science" and "philosophy/religion/etc." has to be one of the greatest intellectual tragedies of the Enlightenment.

To men like Newton, Da Vinci, Bacon, etc. the pursuit of knowledge of the operations of the outer world and the inner world were not seen as separate disciplines - in fact, they were seen as "two sides of the same coin", inseparable from one another in the goal of attaining a higher truth. Without Newton's interest in alchemy, we would've never had the Laws of Motion. Without Bacon's occult theories, we would've never had the scientific method. Knowledge of the cosmos extends far beyond the physical world, my friend.

>>38019837
I still don't see how that's not despite or unrelated of, instead of because of.

File: IMG_1498.jpg (94KB, 1126x768px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 1126x768px

>>38019836
What I'm trying to convey is that religion can provide great insight into the human condition even as a non-believer. You're still thinking about the surface of religion where there is a deep ocean of knowledge to explore. Trust me. I grew up agnostic and hated whenever my friend try to force me to go to their place of worship and still think quite lowly of it today. Growing up a Korean in LA, I saw all those people who yelled from the street corners about accepting Jesus etc. But, when I took a further look into this thing that encompassed our civilizations for thousands of years, you too can probably see that those people are missing the point of religion and the breadth of knowledge and perspective it can offer.

File: 14068226_1768911063322020_3556451809441657750_n.png (92KB, 206x330px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 206x330px

>>38019883
No I never said that. I said that philosophically speaking, believing in God is somewhat absurd, but just as much as everything else (like believing that the World is not a simulation, that other people exist outside your mind, etc). That is because, if you study philosophy enough, you will learn that there are millions of things of which we cannot know but still choose to keep believing, solipsism being the greatest argument (look it up if you can, also see Wittgenstein's solipsism in the Tractatus) it is the idea that we cannot prove (PHILOSOPHICALLY speaking) that anything exists beside the mind.

I agree 100% with >>38019478

But what he does not realize is that, as much as science cannot prove that God exists, it also cannot prove that God does NOT exist, so in regards as to religion, Science should be completely silent, neither in favor or against.

In fact, the Scientific method is the best method for designing objective truth. But as we speak of the subjective knowledge (be that of God, of philosophy or anything else of our daily life) Science has nothing to say. And philosophically speaking, God and reality enter into the discussion whilst science does not, with all due respect to Science.

>god
>supposedly loving
>supposedly merciful

No loving, merciful god would make us live like this, desu

>>38019808
>lol and you know this how? Don't resort to blatantly pulling shit out of your ass, moron.
It's simple. I asked myself "what would drive someone to willingly kill themselves and potentially hundreds of others?" The only answer I could come up with is an experience of almost-inhuman suffering. No healthy, stable person, no matter how religious or irreligious, wakes up and says "I want to bomb a crowded marketplace."

>>38019808
>Because empathy is tied to the imagination. It's not that difficult.
And where does imagination exist, anon?

>but to say that's how they been most of the time is plain dishonest.
You're right there, but I honestly believe focusing on the details of belief is irrelevant. The fact is, prior to the Industrial Revolution, humans had to make do in far more physically insecure world than our own - yet not only did they "make do", but they actually thrived and prospered. And this was helped, in large part, but humanity's devotion to spiritual matters. So to say that god-belief has nothing to offer humanity whatsoever is kinda false.

>You're a pretentious pseudo-intellectual moron.
My apologies.

>>38016078
Vegetarianism is for the weak, humans are meant to eat meat along with fruits and vegetables.

>>38020069
Are humans also meant to live in air-conditioned buildings?

>>38019855
Although the experiments helped us understand the human condition, I do not find them beautiful.

I am in a stage where I am truly disgusted by hoarding. Specifically, a friend of mine hoards newspapers. There's a lot of bad, complicated things happening in those newspapers. My friend is being buried alive by his possessions and worries. I cannot imagine myself looking on a tragedy like this as beautiful.

File: IMG_1786.jpg (72KB, 500x334px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 500x334px

>>38019883
You're still missing the point. It's basically in his post right there. Because we have the ability to not only doubt, but to also have faith that provides an allegorical ladder one can climb to approach truth. For example, the highs and lows of society and individuals creates both extravagance and the need for efficiency. The collision of those two ideas, lofty and brutally designed, lead to new ideas and more truth than either one can acheieve on their own. In the biblical sense, you can see those dualities rise and rise again. Man and women, heaven and hell, etc.

File: 7qIebuO.jpg (648KB, 648x9072px) Image search: [Google]

648KB, 648x9072px

>>38019799
I'll break it down for you, dumbass. Now try to keep up.

When it comes to what it's possible toknow, there's really only one thing

that I exist as a consciousness

I think, therefore I am. This is proven with logic. I can not doubt my existence while I doubt.

Beyond that, everything, including the senses which inform my consciousness, could be falsified, and must beassumedin the strictest sense of the word, having to do with our epistemic limits.

Part 1

File: 16939466_1407101655988123_1744661543131134737_n.jpg (30KB, 532x337px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 532x337px

>>38020010
Yes I know.

But still I choose to keep believing in order to numb the pain.

>>38019915
I don't think so. Science and Philosophy should remain separate, just as psychology should be separated academically from psychology.

The idea that the past scientists of the long ago were deeply mystical and religious and superstitious does not mean that modern science should be as well. Or that it should even be philosophically inclined either. BUT it means that philosophy AND science as academic pursuits are wholly compatible for a human being to pursue, and that there is nothing wrong with being a philosophically oriented scientist (as long as you stick to the Scientific Method while you do your research) like Niels Bohr, Albert Einstein, etc. In fact, I firmly believe that Philosophy actually HELPS the development of the mind of a youngster and even helps in his scientific pursuits.

In regards as to how to live, religion and the subjective knowledge are the best guides.

In regards as to objectively knowledge, of which there must be little discussion regarding its factuality, science is the main guide.

>>38020088
Not necessarily. Are humans meant to wear clothes? Maybe. Are humans meant to be omnivores? They definitely thrive by it.

>>38019799
So we're tasked with coming up with a logical system of discerning objectivityto the best of our ability. This is where science comes in.

Science deals only in things which are testable and predictable to all observers under equivalent conditions. It actively seeks to deny credibility to a single observer's claims, and give credibility only when multiple independent sources acting under the same conditions consistently agree. Itsystematicallyeliminates bias or the possibility of faulty experience.

Empiricism is needed in tandem with brute logic because it's possible to define something which is consistent in itself and with yet-observed reality which nevertheless doesn't exist. Ultimately the only way we can be as sure as reasonably possible that something's real is to look and see.

Part 2

>>38020088
What kind analogy is that? Every vegetarian I've seen is either an annoying hippie or some really frail faggot. Vegans are even worse because they treat it like a religion.

>>38020010
You don't know what non-existence feel like to be able to say that it's better.

>>38020184
Isn't this selection bias? If they take the time to inform you of their eating habits, then they're obviously self-righteous faggots. A vegetarian due to religious reasons that keeps his mouth shut wouldn't catch your attention.

File: 16299188_1383727768325512_5366053196851082016_n.png (175KB, 693x663px) Image search: [Google]

175KB, 693x663px

>>38020155
>>38020134
No you are the fucking dumbass, 9gagger.

Read what I said again. I am not talking shit about religion, I was just saying that fucking philosophically speaking, there is no provable way to deny solipsism, there is not even a scientific way at all to prove solipsism false. And if solipsism cannot be proven false, then all of reality could be an illusion. Of course, I don't actually believe that literally. I still wholly believe in Science as the BEST way to discern knowledge. BUT when regards God, it is put aside (for God is also out of the reach of Science). Now, having only in mind PHILOSOPHY and Subjective Knowledge, leaving Science aside for Objective pursuits, we can clearly states that nothing at all outside consciousness is inherently questionable, unknowable, but still, in practical life, we believe in everything to be true, and not questionable. Since it seems fair for one to act in such a way, it is also wholly fair to act in accordance to a life of belief in God as well.

>>38019799
Below that, we have untestable personal experience. Here we add on an assumption that we aren't under misapprehension, which is extremely common. Below even that, anecdotal evidence, which adds additional assumptions, both that the person we're hearing the evidence from isn't under misapprehension, and that they're being honest with us. Both of these are methods of experience which science actively eliminates, for reasons already stated.

>>38020259
>we can clearly states that everything* at all outside consciousness is inherently questionable

>>38020282
*part 3

Religion and supernatural woo woo nonsense is founded entirely on these bottom rungs of credibility, the latter much more even than the former, and in spite of this, tries constantly to either discredit science, or equate itself with it.

End

>>38020259
Read what the fuck I said, ass burger. I broke down for you a solipsist's defense of science. Pull your head out of your ass.

>>38020140
I mean, it all really depends on what your goals are. If simply knowledge of the order of material world is your only goal, with no regards towards purpose or destination, then sure, you can pursue science without philosophy. But it's worth it to ask ourselves why should we develop such a mindset? What is the drive behind it? Is it a worthy a noble drive, that has been proven to genuinely benefit the totality of humanity?

I'm not asking these questions to be smug or because I know the answers, I'm asking them because they need to be asked

>>38020259
Apologies if this is a crude question, but is there a way using the scientific method to prove that the scientific method is the only valid form of knowledge?

File: IMG_2124.jpg (217KB, 735x933px) Image search: [Google]

217KB, 735x933px

>>38020094
Well, no one mentioned the Bible being beautiful in the 3-4 posts that started from your reply to the Buddhist. I'm just saying they provide great insight and the fact that you cannot view an ancient work that has resonated with people's for thousands of years with a critical eye makes you too dismissive in your knowledge. Again, agnostic so I don't refuse science at all. I'm actually a bioengineering student so if I can get something out of studying religious works, maybe you can too.

Pic related to prove I do some maths or something

>>38020311
Wow you really are an idiot.

Go back to 9gag and comment on posts about how you are an enlightened atheists that is euphoric on science

>tries constantly to either discredit science

You really are a fucking idiot. I never even talked shit about science. Fucking read the second part of my post here >>38020008
, you retarded cocksucker.

>>38020045
>No healthy, stable person, no matter how religious or irreligious, wakes up and says "I want to bomb a crowded marketplace."

Again, talking out of your ass.

>And where does imagination exist, anon?

In the mind, friendo. Was that supposed to go somewhere?

>this was helped, in large part, but humanity's devotion to spiritual matters

The only semi-valid argument you've tried to make here is that religion has had social utility for poor, dumb, short-lived, miserable people, which I'm inclined to agree with. Of course if you believe that kind of bullshit you'll be happier. What I'm concerned with is whether or not it's true.

File: slide_5.jpg (78KB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 960x720px

>>38020342
Probably not.

originari desu

>>38020008
>it also cannot prove that God does NOT exist

>being this autistic

>>38020372
>le stupid 9gagger
>euphoric

lol the age-old sign of the triggered religious dumbass. Instead of the autistic screeching, try coming back with a proper retort.

>it also cannot prove that God does NOT exist

LOL for fucks sake

>>38020405
>Again, talking out of your ass.
Are you genuinely arguing that it's possible for suicide bombers to be healthy, well-adjusted people?

>In the mind, friendo.
And where does the mind exist?

>for poor, dumb, short-lived, miserable people,
Have you ever lived the life of an ancient farmer? Have you ever existed in the ancient world? If you, with your current mental faculties, were born into such a world, would you necessarily feel cursed and ashamed at your lack of the technological comfort that doesn't yet exist?

>What I'm concerned with is whether or not it's true.
"True" is an incredibly dangerous word, my friend. You'll have to be more specific.

File: IMG_1310.jpg (184KB, 1280x800px) Image search: [Google]

184KB, 1280x800px

>>38020342
Not same anon, but I believe the reason the scientific method is widely accepted is due to the results it produces and the reproducibility it offers. This means that while it might only lead to approximations of understandings, it is currently the best and perhaps the only way we have to break down the universe in a logical way. Unfortunately, I believe human faculties may limit us to only ever approximating truths. I posted something up there about maths, but in higher level maths, we generally only guess at and approximate the true nature of systems. Once we have run enough tests, we start to believe it as not perfect truths, but reliable givens.

File: 1492482902617.jpg (37KB, 426x486px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 426x486px

>>38020419
Fuck off cocksucker.

>>38020454
You are really fucking idiot

Take a look at this cocksucking faggots

So the purely hypothetical multiverse does not solve the problem of God. The incredible fine-tuning of the universe presents the most powerful argument for the existence of an immanent creative entity we may well call God. LACKING CONVINCING SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to the contrary, such a power may be necessary to force all the parameters we need for our existence cosmological, physical, chemical, biological and cognitive to be what they are.

http://time.com/77676/why-science-does-not-disprove-god/

>>38020500
Oh I'm at all not doubting the scientific method's ability to reveal to us the workings of the material universe.

>>38020367
You assume a lot about me. Your argument consists of character assassinations. You can get a lot of nutrients out of shit, so you must think very highly of excrement.

File: FORBES.png (1MB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1920x1080px

>>38020454
>>38020419
You guys are unbelievably autistic

Just yourselves in the mouth

>>38020498
>Are you genuinely arguing that it's possible for suicide bombers to be healthy, well-adjusted people?

I'm arguing you thinking you know the subtle psychological motivations of a religious fanatic better than they do makes you a charlatan.

>And where does the mind exist?

In the brain. Lemme guess, you're gonna try to argue that because we don't have a complete theory of consciousness yet, that it somehow validates your religious notions of souls and similar things. If an argument from ignorance is all you've got, don't bother.

>"True" is an incredibly dangerous word, my friend. You'll have to be more specific.

Whether or not the concrete objective claims made by religions coincide with concrete objectivity, and there's no good reason to believe they do. Again, if you're just gonna say something like "true religion is all metaphorical" then I've already addressed that.

File: 1437990283196.gif (1MB, 290x218px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 290x218px

>>38020543
>Fuck off cocksucker
>You are really fucking idiot

[AUTISTIC SCREECHING]

>The incredible fine-tuning of the universe presents the most powerful argument for the existence of an immanent creative entity we may well call God

lol watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R97IHcuyWI0

>>38020571
Oh I know, just trying to shed some light on the actually really interesting question posed anon :)

>>38020622
>in no way facors or disfavors the existence of God

No shit, buddy. You're missing the point, which is that the burden of proof rests on those claiming there IS a god, and so far there's no good reason to believe so.

>>38016078
>believe in fairy tales for no reason or your life is meaningless XDDDDDDD
cancer

File: Why.png (25KB, 810x301px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 810x301px

>>38020674
>>38020674
Fuck off my board and never come back

>>38020342
You can't use an objective method to prove an abstraction...

But read this >>38020134

>>38020627
>I'm arguing you thinking you know the subtle psychological motivations of a religious fanatic better than they do makes you a charlatan.

I mean, I don't know the details specifically, but I can assure you they're not done with a clear mind. This isn't just me that feels this way. Ask any scholar on Islamic extremism and you'll get a similar answer.

>Lemme guess, you're gonna try to argue that because we don't have a complete theory of consciousness yet
Honest question, what makes you so certain we'll ever find such a theory? Keep in mind I'm asking you directly, not what other people have said about the topic. How do you **know** that we'll find one?

>Whether or not the concrete objective claims made by religions coincide with concrete objectivity
Why must religions operate within concrete objectivity? They were not, contrary to what you might think, interested solely in explaining the material world. Cosmogony is just one time facet of the religious undertaking - ethics, philosophy, psychology, aesthetics, society, charity, among many others are included in this vast umbrella.

>>38020727
So if the scientific method is an abstraction, what makes it superior to all other abstractions?

>>38020717
>"nonoverlapping magisteria"

lol except that's fucking wrong.

Ultimately, science and religion DO concern the same types of claims, namely those about concrete objectivity. In fact, the claim that a god exists is the most objective claim one can possibly make.

Saying religion only exists in the realm of subjective belief is plain asinine and dishonest, though I would love it if it were true. Philosophy and art exist for the exploration of the subjective, and religion is a poor man's excuse for these. Just like where astrology ends astronomy begins, or where alchemy ends, chemistry begins, where religion ends, philosophy begins.

You fuck off my board.

>>38020800
>In fact, the claim that a god exists is the most objective claim one can possibly make.
In theory, yes, but it has been known throughout all of human existence that faith and knowledge in a transcendent reality is dependent upon experience, which often includes great periods of doubt. This obsession with intellectual permanence belies the complete and utter impermanence that our minds actually experience.

File: evidence of absence.png (305KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

305KB, 1920x1080px

>>38020674
Hey dude it was not even about the fine tuning. I dont care about that shit. What I cared about was the impossibility of the proving or disproving of God.

Take a look at Russell's (who was an atheist BTW) argument.

If one says that there is a God above, that is unfalsifiable. And since it is unfalsifiable, it isn't science. So Science can have nothing to do with unfalsifiable statements, therefore they cannot even disprove this statement.

There has never been so far a scientific PROOF of the non-existence of God. If there is, I ask anyone in this fucking board to give me one.

I am not saying that God MUST exist in a metaphysical sense in the universe. What I am saying is that, Scientifically speaking, the question of God is out of its reach.

Take a look at this wiki page, you unbelievable autists.

>"there is never 'proof' of non-existence"

>"this alleged entity has no place in any scientific equations, plays no role in any scientific explanations, cannot be used to predict any events

>>38020762
>I can assure you they're not done with a clear mind

>Ask any scholar on Islamic extremism and you'll get a similar answer

Osama Bin Laden was an Islamic scholar.

>what makes you so certain we'll ever find such a theory?

"Certainty" doesn't exist, but I can be reasonably confident based on the steady progress science has made in multiple areas people never previously believed we'd unravel like biology and quantum physics. There's no good reason to assume there's anything "magical" about consciousness, especially considering what we already know about it.

>ethics, philosophy, psychology, aesthetics, society, charity, among many others are included in this vast umbrella.

And the validity of ALL of those areas of study done through the lens of religion depends ENTIRELY on whether or not the underlying concrete, objective, supernatural claims are true...

>>38020799
I explained all that here >>38020134

There's no better abstract method possible within our epistemic limits for discerning concrete objectivity than science.

You guys are so fucking autistic

> >He is not a vegetarian

On that moment I dropped my golden nickels and picked up the axe

>>38020870
>since it is unfalsifiable, it isn't science

Uh huh, and you're still deluded enough to believe that's a point in FAVOR of belief in god(s)?

There's a reason objective claims which lack falsifiability are automatically discarded by science: they're completely worthless in the pursuit of objective truth. Perhaps worth entertaining for gaining subjective understanding, but as I've said here before, most religious people don't view their religious entities purely as metaphorical, they view them as real beings.

>What I am saying is that, Scientifically speaking, the question of God is out of its reach.

This depends entirely on what TYPE of god we're talking about...

A deistic god? Absolutely. A theistic, interventionist god? Not so fast. For such a god, claims about its interaction with the natural world at specific points in time and space are almost a necessity, and so far come without extraordinary evidence required to validate such extraordinary claims. In a universe where you propose a god who interacts with us exists, absence of evidence IS evidence of absence...

>>38020900
>Osama Bin Laden was an Islamic scholar.
You know what I mean.

>"Certainty" doesn't exist
And yet you say this with great certainty! :)

>based on the steady progress science has made in multiple areas people never previously believed we'd unravel like biology and quantum physics.
Just because something has happened in the past, doesn't mean it'll continue to happen into the future. It's one of the most basic ideas in the philosophy of science that we may one day reach an "end" to empirical knowledge.

>There's no good reason to assume there's anything "magical" about consciousness, especially considering what we already know about it.
"Consciousness" isn't a really a noun though, and the way current society treats it like one is a great tragedy IMO. Consciousness just.. is. It's the place where things come from; thoughts, feelings, ideas, images, etc. So consciousness (whatever that may be) can't be inherently "magical" or "non-magical", it can only be understood, in parts, by the things that it experiences. And if it can experience things that have a "magical" dimension, then it's kinda odd to say that it's not possible to understand consciousness through magical/spiritual/philosophical/whatever means.

>depends ENTIRELY on whether or not the underlying concrete, objective, supernatural claims are true...
If a religion builds a compassionate, prosperous society conductive to human happiness off of non-scientific claims, then is that not already a great indicator that there is truth contained in these claims? People do not benefit from ideas unless these ideas are applicable and reproducible, after all.

>>38020596
You're free to dismiss my argument if you please, but I can still think you're being weak and dismissive for not even considering something with a rich history. It's not like the argument is even coming from an ideologue either which makes your stance all the the more pitiable.

>>38021098
>You know what I mean.

Nope, your standards for what makes a "true" religious scholar hold no weight.

>Just because something has happened in the past, doesn't mean it'll continue to happen into the future.

Of course, but based on past progress in other fields, as well as the current progress made in the relevant field, we can have reasonable confidence in grander eventual understanding. As sort of an aside, the people making the most progress in this field at the moment are actually computer scientists working to create artificial general intelligence, and by all accounts they're making progress.

>consciousness (whatever that may be) can't be inherently "magical" or "non-magical", it can only be understood, in parts, by the things that it experiences.

What I meant by "magical" was that it requires something "supernatural" to exist. I'm not convinced that it does, and think it's most likely an emergent property of the structure and electro-chemical workings of the brain.

>If a religion builds a compassionate, prosperous society conductive to human happiness off of non-scientific claims, then is that not already a great indicator that there is truth contained in these claims?

Not necessarily; and again, you're appealing to social utility.

If I tell you killing is wrong, we can probably both agree that's true.

If I tell you killing is wrong because god told me so, we can still both agree that killing is wrong, but it doesn't necessarily make the basis I gave for that statement true.

File: 18033452_1466002333431388_1071403488847060845_n (1).jpg (56KB, 610x650px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 610x650px

>>38021097
>There's a reason objective claims which lack falsifiability are automatically discarded by science: they're completely worthless in the pursuit of objective truth.

Yes, exactly. You are completely right

That's what I have been trying to say this whole time but you guys were just too autistic

God is a question of the subjective mind, the personality, the existential question, it is about the subjective experience of spirituality and all of these kinds. But NOT science. It is complete mumbo jumbo to science, and that's right.

But that doesn't mean that in the face of all the existential and troublesome questions that we have personally, we should not take our personal believes into account. It means that in our daily lives, we can and should believe in a God, maybe not in a literal sense of an interventionist, ever loving God. But in an existential God that we pray to, even when we are not sure whether it exists or not. in order to give strength and peace.

The real challenge of faith is to believe in God when there are no proofs of its existence.

>Uh huh, and you're still deluded enough to believe that's a point in FAVOR of belief in god(s)?

No I never thought it was a point in Favor. What I meant that you autists would notice by that argument was that one should not mix philosophy with science, and science with theology. By doing that we go on an endless cycle of discussion of the vague and shallow discussion of the existence or non existence of God instead of focusing on the important part of the potential benefits of the belief in an existential god and our spiritual cleansing.

The Subjective, this is what I want to talk about

(Read Kierkegaard before talking shit about religion)

>>38021270
>God is a question of the subjective mind, the personality, the existential question, it is about the subjective experience of spirituality and all of these kinds

Wrong. This is where you keep fucking up. If you want to believe god(s) to be entirely subjective metaphors meant to explore our consciousness and experiences, that's fine, and nothing would make me happier than to see religion - if it must still exist - become that for every religious person for the rest of time, but for most religious people - now and in the past - that's just not the case.

If you ask 100 Christians whether they think Yahweh, the god of Abraham, is a purely allegorical character, I'd be willing to bet my left nut that nearly all of them will say no.

>you guys were just too autistic

lol stop

>>38021268
I was talking about people who study Islamic extremism, not Islamic extremists themselves.

>we can have reasonable confidence in grander eventual understanding.
I mean, this is opening a whole other whacky intra-dimensional can of worms that I don't have the energy to go into right now, so I'll just say let's agree to disagree.

>I'm not convinced that it does, and think it's most likely an emergent property of the structure and electro-chemical workings of the brain.
Again, and here's the kicker, you're thinking of consciousness as a "thing," like a tree or a car or even an idea. It's none of those things. Consciousness is just the label we've put onto, well, whatever *this* is. That's not to say that *this* isn't affected by the physical workings of the brain, but *this* isn't just the physical workings of an organ.

>Not necessarily; and again, you're appealing to social utility.
I'm using rather obtuse logic to argue that social utility is in fact an argument for it's truthfulness, or at least partial truthfulness. Whereas contemporary philosophy, science, etc. has come to see truth as a *thing*, I see truth more as an *experience,* and that the fact that it's an experience rather than a thing doesn't detract from it in the slightest.

So in your example, when you say that killing is wrong because God says so, in a way that does actually justify the existence of God. Now I suppose I should make it clear I'm not a monotheist and my concepts of religion are more Eastern in thought, so I wouldn't personally say that you shouldn't kill because of God, but I try to recognise that people who say things like that are pointing to something I can sort of believe in.

Anyway, I've been up all night and need some rest. It was interesting debating with you anon.

File: 1481508531136.jpg (232KB, 979x832px) Image search: [Google]

232KB, 979x832px

>>38016180
>Christian Mysticism.
I'm pretty sure Christianity tells you to stone mystics to death.

File: 1498201625492.jpg (8KB, 236x147px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 236x147px

>>38021459
>but for most religious people - now and in the past - that's just not the case.
>If you ask 100 Christians whether they think Yahweh

Anon, do you even have any idea where you are fucking posting? Are you from reddit or 9gag? We are not talking about normies, we are not talking about the fucking normalfag christians that We see on the street or church. I am not part of the majority and neither a sheep. How fucking stupid can you be? Seriously, just fuck off. Kys. I am not even angry, I am fucking annoyed that normies and fucking redditors are swarming my fucking board.

>>38021496
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mysticism

>>38021459
>If you want to believe god(s) to be entirely subjective metaphors meant to explore our consciousness and experiences, that's fine, and nothing would make me happier than to see religion - if it must still exist - become that for every religious person for the rest of time, but for most religious people - now and in the past - that's just not the case.

How could you even fucking think that we were talking about normie religion instead of the personal subjective religion? How could you think we were talking about those normies that know nothing of Christian Mysticism and Christian existentialism? Are you retarded or just autistic? This is fucking /r9k/ filled with robots. We would never want to fucking become normies, except if you are one of them.

>>38021579
Stop throwing an autistic fit and try to have a discussion like an adult.

If you're not gonna try to argue any more, fuck off. And I'm almost certain I've been here longer than your underage ass, not that that matters.

>>38021659
So you're a Christian atheist then? (yes, those exist)

>>38021728
More or less.
It is like. I am pretty sure that my God most likely does not exist. But I choose to believe in it either way.

File: GilvaSunner - JOEJOE'S BIZZAERE JOJOKE - 2016-02-20_01-59-26.png (16KB, 61x87px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 61x87px

>>38017655
nigga studies only say that it slightly increases the chance of a cardiac arrest.

File: 17990701_1649332755078659_8155573948621797125_n.jpg (25KB, 346x562px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 346x562px

>>38021701
Ok. I am gonna argue with you.

My point is this, I believe in:

>Believe god(s) to be entirely subjective metaphors meant to explore our consciousness and experiences, that's fine, and nothing would make me happier than to see religion

and not this :

but for most religious people (normies) - now and in the past - that's just not the case.

>>38021494
>I was talking about people who study Islamic extremism, not Islamic extremists themselves.

And who decides who the "extremists" and "scholars" are?

>you're thinking of consciousness as a "thing," like a tree or a car or even an idea

No, I think of it more like a "process", like fusion or photosynthesis.

>That's not to say that *this* isn't affected by the physical workings of the brain, but *this* isn't just the physical workings of an organ.

Almost nothing can be fully understood as *just* the sum of its most fundamental parts. There are different scales things exist on. A coffee mug, for instance, isn't just understood as a collection of ceramic molecules, but also as a toroidal geometric object with certain dimensions. Likewise, consciousness can't just be understood on a structural and chemical level, but on the level of subjective experience as well.

>social utility is in fact an argument for it's truthfulness, or at least partial truthfulness

As I said, we can both agree that killing is most often wrong, whether or not I make such a claim based on a god telling me so or not.

>when you say that killing is wrong because God says so, in a way that does actually justify the existence of God

No, it doesn't. That doesn't follow at all.

>Anyway, I've been up all night and need some rest. It was interesting debating with you anon.

Likewise.

>>38021837
Then as I said, I'm fine with that, and would even consider myself among your camp as well since I also enjoy entertaining those kinds of ideas. It's just believing in them as concretely real that's gotten us into trouble.

File: 1492540938784.png (228KB, 421x389px) Image search: [Google]

228KB, 421x389px

>>38021860
What the hell have you even been writing thus far?

>>38017858
>accepting something as fact when it very well could not be brings happiness

Weak. Accept the chaotic nature of reality, and live on anyway.

>>38021586
How is any of that different from general Christianity?

>>38017948
>everyone on 4chan is pathetic as me
Sad!

>be human
>be immortal soul in mortal body

>>38017655
what the fuck are you blathering about health, longevity is the last thing on my mind. that being said, i'd fucking die before i give up hunting my meat archery is literally the only thing i'm good at.

>>38022085
>Weak.
So is chasing stacies, but you choose to pretend to be tough whenever a girl give the hour of the day.
Haw haw haw

File: 1497372217501.png (7KB, 200x200px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 200x200px

>>38017655
>Eating meat is bad for your health. That is scientifically proven.
Only applies for red meat, and that's only if you eat it constantly.
>mfw Vegans resort to making completely false claims to justify their faggot dietary choices.

>>38023496
> longevity is the last thing on my mind

I used to think like that. Actually I still do. But the thing is, when I stopped eating meat it was not because of the longevity. It was not about living longer, it was about living BETTER.

I wanted to feel good and healthy, not to live longer

File: 1462387464584.png (319KB, 803x688px) Image search: [Google]

319KB, 803x688px

>>38016078
>not living your life based upon your own ego.
>believing in spooks
I live life pursuing the things which make me happy while trying to be fair to others, I find that embracing apathy does not lead to long term happiness as some suggest, because a life devoid of goals is a life devoid of meaning.

File: 1380344524977.png (219KB, 548x407px) Image search: [Google]

219KB, 548x407px

>>38016078
>tfw fully at peace with life while being an amoral, meat-eating, nihilistic atheist

I'll never understand why people like to over-complicate things so much so, that it leads to them suffering.

I lost interest in understanding it ages ago.

File: 14444448.jpg (37KB, 780x438px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 780x438px

>>38016078
>>He doesn't pray everyday

I used to do this. I used to kind of believe too. Now that I think about I think when I stopped is when my string of bad luck started. I know what to do now. Thanks anon!

>>38016101
A vegan diet IS what our ancestors live on though

>>38016151
Sup vegan bro

>>38016078
>TFW when I'm completely opposite wtf

God intended animals to be subservient to man. Being a vegetarian christian makes no sense.

File: 1493191346276.jpg (443KB, 1280x1622px) Image search: [Google]

443KB, 1280x1622px

>>38016078
>He doesn't believe in God
I don't have the motivation, and believing I will end up in hell doesn't really bother me.
>He doesn't pray everyday
I'd forget if I tried to, but I also don't want to.
>He doesn't meditate everyday
Hilarious.
>He is not a vegetarian
I'll eat veggies and meat, I just don't like restricting myself to one.
>He does not have a cause to fight for or anything to believe in, therefore his life becomes meaningless.
Yes, this is true.