God hasn't given up on you so why should you? From the bottom

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>>36361614
Lucifer hasn't given up on you. In fact, he's the reason you have wisdom to begin with. Right and wrong? That was the Morning Star! Reasoning and understand? Our bringer of light!
You are an investment, eventually you'll pay off, if you keep up the good work.
Join me. Praise be!

which god exactly are you talking of - because i can tell you for a fact that you're not talking about the Christian God

the Sovereign Lord God, Creator of Heaven and Earth does not 'hope' that people succeed; because as Sovereign he ordains everything that comes to pass

>>36361614
God doesn't exist and if he does he's never once responded to my prayers, and if he did, I wasted the gift and now there's fucking nothing for me.

>>36361953
>he's never once responded to my prayers

God does not answer the prayers of the wicked - Proverbs 15:29

I literally went to purgatory and it was made clear to me that i would be going to hell and there was nothing I could do to change my fate

>>36361614
but i am already another gods protection, s/he gives me nice things and sometimes sends a messenger to have conversations with me.

>>36361988
>I literally went to purgatory

no you didn't

purgatory is a deception of satan and the doctrine of purgatory is a heretical lie not taught anywhere in scripture or in the christian church for 1100 years after the life, death and resurrection of Christ

>>36362066
God was there though

I was being judged

I know what I witnessed.

>>36362082
aright, if you have stood before Judgement Throne of God you will know the name of the Judge

name him

>>36361614
>God
>>36361879
>Lucifer

good cop bad cop

>>36361614
Then why do I suffer?
>>36361879
Lucifer doesn't exist. Its literally a Roman/Greek translation and a later change to try and rope in Christianity by the Roman Empire. In fact a Satan doesn't exist either, Judaism and the Old Testament never once speaks of an evil being destroying everything. Satan was just the Hebrew Word for adversary, which was usually applied to Israel's Enemies in War.

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>>36362082
>>36362116
orginillyi

>>36362153
>Judaism and the Old Testament never once speaks of an evil being destroying everything.

the oldest book in the Bible is Job

the very first lines of Job speak of Satan presenting himself in the royal court of the Creator, God

>>36362153
OK then who tempted Adam and eve? Are you calling eve, a woman a liar?

Do you think she ate what was forbbiden, then lied and fabricated a story about it AND manipulated Adam into doing it too damning him forever???

>>36362186
The Bible also says that only men present themselves to God, not Angels or any other being. Therefore in the context of Job, Satan was a man, jealous of Job's life, and he was given permission without sin to take those things from Job to prove God wrong, ultimately he lost. Even then most of the calamity was not Satan's doing, but God's.

>They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the LORD had brought upon him

Satan is nothing more than your fellow men, adversaries/enemies that wish you harm. Not some evil primordial being in the service of God.

>>36362186
He's serving God as a prosecutor.

>>36362263
>The Bible also says that only men present themselves to God

no it doesn't

therefore the rest of your argument is invalid


>>36362264
everything serves the Sovereign God's purposes

but yes, 'accuser' is a similar term as prosecutor

>>36362296
Yes it does, it straight up says Angels are always in his presence and that Moses among others must present themselves. In the context of language and words, that means Angels do not need to present themselves as they are already present, unlike men who must present themselves before God.

Well he could probably give me a hand, his platitude isn't worth much.

>>36362326
You

Explain Islam. Is it real?

Also op can answer.

>>36362326
> Yes it does, it straight up says Angels are always in his presence

no, you're wrong - the operative words in Job 1:6 say;
> Now there was a day when the sons of God 'came' to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also 'came' among them.
(emphasis my own)

this speaks to the angels and the devil being about their business, until they are called to attend His court

one meaning of 'angel' is messenger - messengers travel around

... and we have several other pictures of angels throughout the scriptures, walking on the earth to judge sodom, ascending jacob's ladder, and doing things other than being before the Throne - such as when Gabriel announces to Mary that she will give birth to The Son


you are twisting the scripture to eisegete your own wee notions into the word of God and you need to stop that

>>36361924
You are right, our lord is omniscient so all that passes is past knowledge to him however that doesn't mean he loves you any less.

>>36361953
I swear to you anon God truly does love you; whatever adversities plague you, no matter the outcome, God will still love and accept you. You just need to accept him back.

Where is my savior? I feel like broke my bone.

>>36361988
Anon what you are saying is impossible, God forgives all sins as long as one wishes to be forgiven.

>God hasn't given up on you

the misery and injustice in my life tells me God has never been on my side

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>>36361614
look I put jesus in faceapp

God isn't real, and if he was he's definitely be malevolent.

>>36362494
God has always been on your side. For us as free willed human beings to truly have free will then evil must also exist. Unfortunately this means bad things sometimes happen to good people, and for that anon I truly am sorry.
But I promise you God does love you and as long as you realize that then I believe that will give you the strength to face on adversity.

>>36362450
Its a much later branch of Christianity/Judaism with things changed.
>>36362456
Within context it doesn't say that Satan is one of the Sons of God, only that he came among/with them.

Even then, the term Satan is used for a variety of things within the Old Testament as it was just the Hebrew Word for Adversary. It was in reference to a lot of things. There is never any actual mention of some ancient evil primordial being in the entirety of the Old Testament.

I'll relent and say for the sake of discussion that this particular Satan was an Angel, but he's still an Angel, not evil. The term Satan is only used because he's an Adversary to Job in this particular book. Even then if you want to continue arguing, there is no Heaven or Hell in the Old Testament and Judaism, only Sheol, a dark abyss where you exist as a shade/ghost with no memories of who you once were. No eternal torture, no peaceful paradise, just blank existence and no memory of who you once were.

Also in nearly every case of Angels, they always appear as men when walking the Earth. Their actual descriptions are quite horrifying, where only Seraphim and Cherubim have wings, and upon those wings are flames and eyeballs, some with multiple heads of animals, some being metallic constructs/wheels within wheels, etc.

Its not twisting it, its understanding the context of words and contradictions of the Bible.

Do you honestly think that the Ark story is real? There is no evidence for a world flood on the entirety of the Earth, the Middle East sure, but not the entirety. Even then with the dimensions given in the Bible it is physically impossible to hold every animal in the Middle East, let alone on the entirety of the Earth. Do you think Jonah was really eaten by a whale and not just weighed down eternally with his conscience?

A God exists, but the Bible was written by men, translated by men, distributed by men, and changed by men. Its figurative in a lot of cases and missing large gaps.

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>>36362456
It says so in the bible book?

You two are like two people fighting about what was in spiderman issue 302.

Actually...

>>36362537
You could at most make the argument god is indifferent, a similar view Albert Einstein held. That God simply created the rules of the universe (physics) then went to sleep or something and our reality is simply the bi-product.

>>36361614
lol if he's hoping for my success why did he give me a fucked up brain?

>>36361614
Given the almost mathematically constructed circumstances that have coincided these past 3 weeks I believe there might be a God- but he does NOT love me.

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>>36362573
Congratulations you just boiled down hundreds of years of debate into a single comic book reference

>>36362562
Against, who's the serpent in genesis? An actual just plain snake?

He was ordered to by god? God knew what was going to happen? There's so much pain but he's sorry? We don't even get heaven if we are good we get darkness with no memories? But he loves us?
Some trend f the bible is fake because its manmade but the parts you agree with and like must be true??

>>36362599
Fucked up how anon?

>>36362606
He loves you anon, and whatever you say won't change otherwise

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>>36361975
>If god doesn't respond you're a bad guy! why? because two people ate an apple 6000 years ago. How can you become a good enough for God to respond? Haha you can't, live a good life and you might meet God though(maybe).

>>36362636
Just a serpent anon, nothing more, nothing less.

Also if God is truly omnipotent then of course he knew what was going to happen, he always knew. Sometimes things are the way they are, just because. There is no rhyme or reason to it, they just are. Also yes, no heaven, no hell, that was a creation by the Roman Churches, there was only Sheol, just nothing but shades.

Also I never said the above stuff was true now did I? Only that this is how the Bible originally was before changes. If you're going to agree with the Bible and that it was ordained by God, then you must take what it says as fact in the Old Testament as that is the original canon source.

>>36362666
>666
This thread isn't for you beelzebub

>>36362606
He tough loves you?

>>36362562
>Within context

stopped reading right there

the context of scripture is more scripture

but you disregard scripture as a consistant framework, because you believe it was written by mere men, rather than by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit

this allows you to force any interpretation you like upon the text, much as you earlier claimed that Satan is merely a human man known to Job

and you claimed this to be true, by saying that the Bible says only men present themselves before God

now you've been shown to be wrong in that assertion that only men present themselves before God - but instead of wising up, and admitting you might be very wrong about everything you believe, you double down on your narrative and throw everything at the wall hoping to prove how big and clever you are to your friends in your secret mongolian fingerpainting club

but the fact is, you have misunderstood even the simplest of plain readings of a text, and yet persist in claiming to be an authority, so i am done arguing with ya

look at the world as a whole. you have politicians and corporate big wigs playing God with their money manipulating the peasants. Corrupting every facet of our society. they, along with Hollywood, have elite pedo rings where they fuck little boys and girls. Yet they will never face consequences because they're all above the law.

If God is real and good, he'd put a stop to this shit show. But he won't, nothing will stop them, nothing will happen.

Because there is no God. We are on our own.

>>36362688
No on the contrary. Things aren't the way just because, they are the way they are because he ( or she ;) ) made it that way.

And this original bible please link me.

>>36362638
bipolar, manic depression

>>36362720
>but you disregard scripture as a consistant framework, because you believe it was written by mere men, rather than by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit

If it was inspiration by the Holy Spirit and God then there wouldn't be things that are legit physically impossible and straight up historical and scientific contradictions in places. If God created everything, he made the laws of physics, evolution, etc. Whether he just popped humans from monkeys and dirt on a whim or not is a different story, but certain things exist and cannot exist within the physical realm, which the Bible contradicts.

Also if I'm wrong, please explain to me how the Ark with its dimensions (stated in the Bible) could fit every single Animal in the Middle East, let alone the Earth. Please explain this to me if its truly inspirational and ordained by God and the Holy Spirit.

>>36362723
They might be above the laws of man anon but no one is above the laws of god, the truly wicked in the end will meet their judgement.

Evil exists in this world so that free will may exist, it's for the greater good.

>>36362723
Plus, they don't even go to hell. They live their rich life and get away with it. Those little children on the other hand get a life
That is hell. But god loves them, believe op.

>>36362778
and what is the greater good, exactly?

>>36362720
I appreciate you anon, thank you for the well-rounded responses. Gave me a new viewpoint to look at things.

>>36362750
n the Hebrew Bible, is a place of darkness to which all the dead go, both the righteous and the unrighteous, regardless of the moral choices made in life, a place of stillness and darkness cut off from life and from God.[1]

The inhabitants of Sheol are the "shades" (rephaim), entities without personality or strength.[2] Under some circumstances they are thought to be able to be contacted by the living, as the Witch of Endor contacts the shade of Samuel for Saul, but such practices are forbidden (Deuteronomy 18:10).[3]

While the Old Testament writings appear to describe Sheol as the permanent place of the dead

>>36362800
Free will, if you want to look into more why or how evil could exist with an omnipotent benevolent god then here is a good starting place:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

>>36362762
Long ago there were not that many animals. There were about as many that one could fit on a big boat.

After the flood new animals came into being.

>>36362826
Then if God knows everything, he knows who has already committed sin and evil. That isn't free will because its already known, its pre-determined.

>>36362754
You have been dealt a tough hand anon and I understand why you might feel ill-will towards God. I won't pretend to understand why things turn out the way they do, I'm just a simple human but I know this, God does love you no matter what.

>>36362826
so free will is worth all this unrelenting evil and corruption? evil is winning in this world and there is nothing that is going to stop it unless a giant asteroid happens to slam into this planet.

>>36362876
You sure pretended earlier!

And you dare assume to know what the lord feels?

Everyone we have a holy prophet among us!

>>36362877
Oh anon don't think that way. You can help change this place. Have faith. If not in god, then in good.

>>36362849
Wrong, there have been billions of insects for hundreds of millions of years.

Also the dimensions of the Ark: 300 cubits in length, 50 cubits in width, and 30 cubits in height (450 x 75 x 45 ft or 137 x 22.9 x 13.7 m)

A football field and a half. That's it, that's how big it is. It is physically impossible to hold all the insects, let alone mammals, reptiles, amphibians, and birds (as birds weren't sent out until the 40th day and only one).

It is physically impossible. We have fossil records, carbon dating, etc. Humans alone have been around for 200,000 years. Currently on the planet there are 10,000,000,000,000,000,000 Species of Insects. 10 Quintillion anon and Insects have been evolving for 400 million years.

Its not possible.

>>36362853
The two aren't mutually exclusive, just because he knows what choices we're going to make doesn't make our choices any less of our own volition

>>36362920
Then God isn't benevolent. If you let evil exist and then punish the person for it, you yourself are responsible as well.

If you know a man is going to kill 30 people and yet you do nothing because 'Its his free will' then you are accountable for his actions as well because you did nothing to stop it.

>>36362899
I promise you anon God does love you, I'd stake my soul on it.

>>36362939
Not the anon you were talking to but you can't impose human's sense of morality on a godly being.

>>36362969
When human morality largely comes from the source material that God himself has bestowed with the Bible, then yes it does.

Besides, even if that isn't the case, at the end of it all a New Earth will be made and all sin eradicated anyways. So what is the point of punishing people and not just eradicating it completely in the first place? Its just complacency.

>>36362947
I sure hope so because that's exactly what you are doing.

>>36362989
See the problem is that you're judging a being with omnipotence and omniscience, his reality is the complete picture so his sense of morals are objectively correctly.

Hell

if you want a picture of the Afterlife, look to the words of Jesus - whom as the Creator God, made both the eternal soul of man, and the eternal destination of that soul - and so knows what He speaks of

in Luke chapter 16, verses 19 to 31, Christ speaks of a righteous man and an unrighteous men who both die and go to Sheol

this dimenion called Sheol is shown to have both a beautiful place of rest known as 'Abraham's Bosom' or 'Paradise', and another called 'The Place of Torment' - with a great gulf between them
(this is the same 'Paradise' which Christ promised the thief on the cross would be with Him in that very day)

now the name Sheol means 'The Grave', but 1600 years after Christ died on the cross, descended into Sheol, and then Resurrected; English translators of the Bible used the Olde English word 'Hel' in place of Sheol

it should be noted that when Christ rose from The Grave and ascended to The Father, he emptied Paradise of the righteous souls, so now when a believer dies, they are 'present with the Lord' - 2Corinthians 5:8

and it should be further noted that Sheol or Hel still has 'The Place of Torment' within it, where the unrighteous await Judgement Day

and on Judgement Day, Hell itself will be cast into the Eternal Lake of Fire... which was prepared for the devil and his angels
(Jesus again, in Matthew 25 verse 41)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25&version=ESVUK


also; anyone who says the devil doesn't exist, is arguing with Jesus

>>36362915
First insects live underground, the flood wouldn't have affected then the way it did humans.

Second your measurements are off. Think 40 days and 40 nights.

Third your right insects have evolved, there were less of them too.

Fourth science and carbon dating are very fallible. Do you believe a sciences book love me its....a bible?

>>36363016
Then why punish those who do not have an objective sense of morals?
>>36363029
That stuff only existed in the Second Temple Period and beyond and slowly diverged from two separate beliefs.

In fact a lot of it comes from Akkadian which mentions similar words (when translated to Hebrew would mean Sheol). Its likely a borrowed concept. Even in the OT its not consistent. In Proverbs its has instability, in Isaiah its a giant monster, in Jonah its a womb, in Psalms, a hand, etc.

>>36363081
>That stuff only existed in the Second Temple Period and beyond and slowly diverged from two separate beliefs.

Jesus, who is God from the Beginning, disagrees

>>36363046
>First insects live underground,
Butterflies. Number of Species: 20,000
Moths. Number of Species: 160,000 (11,000 in the US alone)
Caterpillars: 20,000+
>the flood wouldn't have affected then the way it did humans.
Yes because the ground doesn't absorb water right?
>Second your measurements are off. Think 40 days and 40 nights.
Yes a day is 12 hours, a night is 12 hours. 1 day/1 night=1 full rotation: ie: 24 hours.
>Third your right insects have evolved, there were less of them too.
Yes there were less of them, still billions of them. Also still way too many mammals to fit on an Ark alone. Two mammoths alone would take up insane room. Let alone tossing Tigers, Lions, Crocodiles, Alligators, Every specie of Lizard, Snake, etc.
>Fourth science and carbon dating are very fallible. Do you believe a sciences book love me its....a bible?
Fallible yes, incorrect on the number of species, bones, and evolution? No.

Face it, you can't fit that much on those dimensions. You'd be physically breaking the laws of physics.

What's next, you're gonna tell me that Humans lived with Dinosaurs or that Humans were the first multi-cellular animal and not a sponge or jellyfish?

>>36362877
Not the guy you were responding to and I don't care about the thread, I was scrolling past it until I saw this post had repeating digits.

>evil is winning in this world

Do you consider yourself one of the 'moral' ones then? Are you free from sin? Considering most of this board are neets (slothful), celebrate the suffering of Chad and Stacy (wrathful), are too afraid of falling to even try (prideful) and jerk off multiple times a day (lustful), you really have no right to sit in judgement over the world for being evil. You're one of the wicked ones. Christisns should be celebrating fags like us on /r9k/ as a sure sign of the end times.

>>36362549
If life's a test, why isn't every human tested equally? Some people are born in wealth, live in wealth, die in wealth, while others struggle to survive until they die at far too young an age. Are all humans equal and equally loved? Or are some more loved than others?

>>36363201
Well considering there are a specific chosen people that get all the praise and glory despite having been the driving force of killing Jesus and causing so much problems that God has wanted to kill them before, yeah I'd say equality is bullshit.

>>36363128
Butterflies didn't exist yet.

Water only absorbs to an extent. There is a whole underground world where they could have survived.

No 40 days and 40/nights didn't actually mean 40d and 40 n.

All those animals didn't exist yet.

And yes species bones and evolution they are very unclear. Speaking of dinosaurs none of those in museums are complete. They are fabricated.

>>36363269
>Butterflies didn't exist yet.
They have existed for 40-50 million years, far longer than humans.
>Water only absorbs to an extent. There is a whole underground world where they could have survived.
The furthest insect goes 1 mile underground, most insects only go several feet underground. If the entire world was flood water would be getting absorbed daily. Even if say every insect was subterranean you still have yet to explain the other animals.
>No 40 days and 40/nights didn't actually mean 40d and 40 n.
Oh please then, enlighten me on how 40 days and 40 nights does not equal 40 days and 40 nights.
>All those animals didn't exist yet.
Wooly Mammoths: 400,000 years old-East Asia
Tigers: 2,000,000 years old-East Asia
Lions: 700,000 years old-Europe
Crocodiles/Alligators: 200,000,000 years old-Across the world
Lizards: 310,000,000 years old-Across the world
Snakes: 98,000,000 years old-Across the world (already had vestigial limbs before Eve)
Humans: 200,000 years old-Africa

So please tell me, how did these animals exist only after the flood and humans?
>And yes species bones and evolution they are very unclear. Speaking of dinosaurs none of those in museums are complete. They are fabricated.
Complete skeletons have been found many times over, you're also insane to think that dinosaurs have been fabricated. Also you still have yet to explain sponges and jellyfish which are far older than everything else on the planet by hundreds of millions of years.

>>36363361
And how did you determine how old all these species were?
Did you read it in some book?

>>36363403
Potassium-Argon Dating: Determines the amount of chemical decay. Similar to a clock and exists within all objects.
Thermo-luminescence: Measures the amount of electrons that get stuck within an object over time as it sits.
Paleomagnetism: Determines magnetic particles due to sedimentary shift.
Molecular clock: Determines things based on currently live descendants and ancient species based on genetic mutations over time and DNA.
Biochronology: Based on the surrounding area and fauna to help determine localization and age of a particular fossil.

You can not argue against the laws of physics, things work like they work for a reason and they will continue to work that way until the end of time.

The Flood Mythos/Ark is bullshit and comes from a story in the Epic of Gilgamesh (2500+ years earlier) and one of the first written stories by humans, which had many Gods, a King, eternal life, and only 7 days of water, etc.

>>36363474
Ever single one of those methods are full of assumptions and unwarranted certainty of accuracy.

>>36363629
No they are not. Chemical elements literally have a consistent half-life, they work on the laws of physics to make everything in the universe work the way it does.

Things can not be argued. If God exists, then he created these things, he created these methods, these creatures, etc. This is how the world works, its how its always worked, and how it will continue to work. Humans are not the first animal, every animal I listed has existed since as last twice that of humans, and there was no Ark built that could house literally 2 of every animal (let alone when they had to use the bathroom). Again, it is not physically possible. Its as physically impossible as breathing in space or that 2+2=5. Not possible, straight up, no. There is no arguing it in any way. You're free to believe that God exists, that he created evolution, the planets, the universe, the laws of physics, etc. But if you're going that route then you can not in any way argue against half-lives and chemical elements and dating, you also have to admit that the Ark and its dimensions are wrong. If you choose to believe that the Ark and its dimensions are not wrong, then you are admitted that the laws of physics and God's creations are wrong.

Pick your poison. A book written on the assumptions of ancient men or physical and proven observation in creation itself?

>>36363629
Its very controversial and have been proven to date things inaccurately.
To say its the truth, you are no different than these people preaching the bible.

>>36363707
Yes and that is true, its not perfect. But what is more believable scientific dating or an Ark that could hold that many animals and yet barely be bigger than a football field and a half? Its just possible.

>>36363732
OK what if that ark was bigger?

>>36363804
It would have to be considerably bigger. At least the size of Texas. You can fit ever human being on the planet shoulder to shoulder within Texas. But there are way more species of animals than there are humans, some far bigger, some far smaller. You'd need a good deal of room.

Something of that size and magnitude would have been found by this point.

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If you didn't have shit in your eyes you could see that there's no relation between what people do and what they get.

Either God is a meanie or he doesn't pay attention to what's going down here.