How smart is /r9k/?

>>36343616
Why on Earth would the plane take off?

Yes, because the axle is free to spin

A car wouldnt move forwards, but a plane will move forward

>>36343616
No, the plane remains stationary relative to the surrounding air hence there is no lift.

all this will do is turn the wheels.
you need air to flow under the wings.

alsp the question is worded poorly. so long as the propellor/jet engine is running the conveyor belt can NEVER move 'as fast as' the wheels spin.

>>36343616
It would still take off because what anon >>36343679 says.

>>36343679
Please explain. Yes, the axle is free to spin, but the wheel isn't moving the plane forwards so how does this help? The axle of the car would be free also you realize?

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>inb4 MUH MYTHBUSTERS

I'm going to use the word "force" to better break down the explanation. If a particular object (a plane, in this case) is acted upon by a force from the opposite direction (the treadmill), which is equal to the force of that object, then the object upon which the force acts won't move, and neither would the other one. (Imagine 2 balls smacking into each other with the same power and pushing each other - none moves).
They cancel each other out and no movement occurs.

No it needs momentum to get air under it's wings. Staying stationary won't allow it to do that.

No, because there's no lift. If the plane doesn't have lift it can't fly.

>>36343779
Force moving the plane forward is generated by the thrust from the engines not the wheels one the ground. Which is different from a car.

>>36343735
It's hypothetical anon, the conveyor belt can move as fast as the wheels.

>>36343822
The plane still rests on the wheels, though.
For it to move without the wheels moving, it would literally have to be floating.

>>36343616
Jumbo jet should stay in place cause no extra lift from wings but fighter should be able to take off cause thruster provides main lift

>>36343839
It's irreverent to the question. The plane isn't being moved forward by it's wheels, so you can't use Newtons second law on the treadmill/wheel system to answer the question.

>>36343822
This >>36343839 is what I based my hypotesis on. I'm not good at physics though so I'm not sure

>>36343616
The plane would need lift, if there isn't any air going over the wings it won't take off.

>>36343616
The only way the plane moves forwards is that it would slide forwards, which it could do due to the massive thrust generated by the engines, it would not matter how fast the wheels were spinning. Could it take off though? In practicle terms, no. It would be way too unstable and likely just tip over.

God damn this question is just made to start arguments.

no there is no lift generated by the movement of air around the wings on the plane, since it's not moving.

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>>36343960
>this question is just made to start arguments
damn, you really think so, anon?

>>36343886
No, the wheels are irrelevant. People are trying to use Newtons third law (perhaps implicitly) on the wheels and treadmill, since the treadmill is moving in the opposite direction, people assume that the plane stays stationary. But this is a red herring. The force propelling the plane forward is coming from the thrust generated by the engines. It's completely unrelated to the speed of the wheels.

>>36343616
no airflow = no flight

>>36343861
the thrusters only move the plane forward through the air, causing lift. Following your logic planes should be able to fly with just its thrusters and no wings. Since all movement forward is being negated by the conveyor belt, the plane will stand still and there will be no lift

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>>36343904

The plane doesn't rely on the wheels for power though. This would be like standing on a treadmill with rollerskates on, you're holding onto a rope and your buddy is at the front of the treadmill with the other rope. It doesn't matter how fast the treadmill goes, the wheels below you will match it, but the jet engines would be like your friend pulling on the rope.

So to answer the question, no, the plane wouldn't take off it would propel forward off of the giant treadmill, fall off and explode in a giant fireball.

>>36343861
Thrusters only provide lift if they are pointing up. A jet could do this too, ever heard of the jump jet? We are not talking about that. The engines are pointing back. They would not provide lift if they were jets or thrusters.

Basically, thrusters don't provide lift, wings do, unless they point up.

>>36343616
you are all retarded. the plane is just sitting there so the wheels aren't moving. The treadmill matches the speed of the wheels. the plane can't take off

>>36344082
Yep, nice comparison anon. You got it. The plane would be able to move forwards but in practical terms there is no way that shit is taking off.

no
theres no airflow around the wings to provide lift

>>36344123
>The wheels aren't moving
You don't count rotation as movement? I see what you are saying though. Just read this anons post, he understands >>36344082

>>36343616
Since the wings aren't moving it's pretty obvious it won't go anywhere

The lifting force is generated by the pressure differential between the top and bottom of the wings and there wouldn't be any here since the wings are not moving

>>36343831
how does it feel being clinically retarded?

Engines blow gas back, plane goes forward. It doesn't matter whether the wheels under it are spinning a little faster.

>>36344423
Nice argument, retard. The conveyor can move as fast as the wheels, but opposite, that's the scenario. If you can't figure out the answer in the scenario just admit that you haven't the capacity for this problem.

It's ok anon, some people just struggle more.

>>36345141
>If the conveyer belt is moving the aircraft forward
It isn't
>If it is not and the wheels are matching the speed of the conveyer belt then it will remain stationary. Lift is created by airflow going over the camber.
Fair enough, but I doubt an aircraft mechanic is skulking around on /r9k/

>>36345266
pilots and aircraft engineers seem like the type of people to lurk /r9k/

>>36343616
No it wouldn't fucking take off. To take off there needs to be lift under the wings, which you get from there being a difference in air pressure above and under the wings. That pressure difference comes about from the design of the wings and how it interacts with air as it moves through it. If no air is passing over/under the wings then there can be no pressure difference and the plane would not take off.

FFS I shouldn't have gone into STEM

>>36345374
>FFS I shouldn't have gone into STEM

You're right, you really shouldn't have

>>36345374
*should have gone into STEM

>>36345374
Lift is primarily from the bottom of the wing deflecting air. They're cambered so they don't flip the fuck out. Wheels don't move the plane forward, they only reduce friction between the plane and the ground. Engines blow gas back, plane goes forward, wheels spin really fast but don't stop the plane.

>>36345444
But still, presupposing that the conveyor belt is able to move the plane back at the same speed it's moving forward so that there's zero net movement, there wouldn't be any lift under the wings because there's no air passing around the wings, right?

I have a similar question but I don't wanna create a whole thread for it:

If you're in a car moving at 50 mph and wind is blowing in the opposite direction at 50 mph, and you stick your head out the window, do you feel no wind? Or is the car not moving at all?

>>36345828
if you mean that the wind is blowing in the same direction as the car is moving you feel no wind

>>36345796
Wheel bearing friction isn't going to exceed engine thrust before the wheels stop being wheels.

>>36343616
no, the forces would cancel each other out

>>36344548
it goes forward but it doesn't go up

>>36343766

What's wrong with the Mythbusters episode on this?

>>36343679
Wait, why couldn't a car's axles spin while a plane's could?

>>36344082
>the plane wouldn't take off it would propel forward off of the giant treadmill, fall off and explode in a giant fireball.
Re-read op. The illustration is not to scale, the conveyor belt has a full runway length.

what if you add a fan behind the runway treadmill to push the plane forward

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>>36346182
you don't need a fan the thrusters are already creating the effect you're proposing, the wheel speed isn't the operative factor
it would take off

>>36343616
no youre retarded thats no how fucking lift works

I heard Planes do not use weels to move

The plane gets lifted upward while moving forward, so on a treadmill going backward, you have to flip the plane upside down.

>>36343766
WHO AREEE THE MYTHSTERS?

>>36343616
Yes, it will take right off.

Planes use propellers and jet engines to provide their forward movement by pushing air over the wings that provide lift.

The wheels of an airplane just roll freely. The speed of the wheel is thus 0 mph, and so will the speed of the treadmill be 0 mph. It will be like taking off from a normal runway.

>b-b-b-but the wheels will roll and move when the plane starts to move forward and that is speed!

So what? You never clarified. what the "same speed of the wheeels" means so I have done it for you. And in my version that means 0 mph.

>>36347186
>You never clarified. what the "same speed of the wheels" means
It means that the wheels in the conveyor will spin at the same rotational speed as the wheels of the plane, and will speed up if the wheel speeds up, but in the opposite direction.

>Planes use propellers and jet engines to provide their forward movement by pushing air over the wings that provide lift.
This is partially true. In propeller planes, some lift can come from the air passing over the wings from the propellers themselves, but in a jet plane, it is the forward movement that forces air over the wings.

So my question is, how does the plane move forwards? If it can't move forwards how can it take off? You say the wheels move at 0 mph , but how can that happen if the plane is moving forwards? My only answer is that the plane slides along.

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If you think it will actually take off, you cannot be more retarded