***Christian General Thread***

ya missed the point dummy

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ocfSHE0N3a4

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>he doesn't think the Apocrypha are canon

>>36186962
It's not and wasn't even considered canon. Just read Josephus's writings he doesn't even talk about the Apocrypha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kcw3ZHdN25c&t=14s

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Do you guys unironically believe things that aren't canon in The Church of Infinite Light?

Why are you all such shit?

>>36186945
Heresy! I hate it when westerners always try to get their own meaning.

>>36186997
I only believe in the books of cannon. I don't think that the apocrypha are cannon.

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>>36187028
Do you believe in The Book of Light?

>>36187046
>Book of Light
Not too familiar with it. Does it have to do with new age mysticism or anything related? If so then no I do not.

>>36187057
"By my right hand I shall shepherd you into the light, by my left I shall turn away those without The Spark"
- Book of Light

It's the one true gospel of Lord Ignis

>>36187008
Try listening to what Jeus said instead of what people said about Jesus an you'll see just how wonderfully and hilariously he was taken in the wrong way.

There is a god there, and Jesus was an embodiment of it, but not at all in the sense that you've ever imagined.

>>36187078
>And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved
Acts 4:12

Talking about Christ

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>>36187105
No, no, talking about The Spark and Lord Ignis.

>"Be free of your burdens, for they are but light, luminious and weightless."
>- Book of Light

You have shit taste in faith

>>36187090
>Try listening to what Jesus said instead of what people said about Jesus
Way ahead of ya. I already do that.

>wonderfully and hilariously he was taken in the wrong way.
How so? I've read the gospels and don't think so.

>but not at all in the sense that you've ever imagined.
Please, enlighten me.

>>36187122
No, I do not believe in this ignis guy. And by the sound of it seems as though he has copied a bit from Christianity.

>>36187134
I could try an explain what I mean to you but this guy has already done it much better than I could.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QCpA6rgvb7Q

If you're willing to put a bit of time into it, and momentarily suspend your dismissal of these ideas until you've heard the jab of it, then I assure you you'll get something out of it. It will make the teachings of Christ seem so obvious if it get through.

All you need to do is give it a go, what's the harm in that?

>>36187238
It's 3 1/2 hours long. I'll watch it later or not at all. I'm not really into new age mysticism.

>>36187238
>I could tell you the truth but why would I do that? Just find it for yourself maaan
- every """enlightened""" piece of shit ever

>>36187284
>new age

If you give it a shot you're going to be chuckling to yourself about that one.

>>36186842
You missed a pretty important piece of the gospel which is that he rose again on the third day. Jesus is alive and sitting at the right hand of the Father in Heaven.

IS HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE?

>>36187349
Thanks for that! Spread the good news!

>>36187290
>why won't you tell me the secret to enlightenment in a bite-sized paper wrapped I-can-figure-it-out-in-two-minute package?
>no I ain't gonna watch the video you posted which you said is about what you're saying you haven't given me anything to go on

C'mon now.

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>worshipping all your life
>just to worship God for eternity
Explain this to me. What if I don't enjoy worshipping God but still am a good person?

>>36187349
How do you know Jesus didn't lie to you?

>>36187365
Hard to say. Hell in the Bible is described as having fire, but at the same time, it says that it is outwardly dark. But doesn't fire create light? All I know is that hell is literally the absence of God. You might say so what but the reason why we can enjoy the earth, laugh with your friends, be happy and even things that seem petty like scratch an itch. These are all things that are due to gods grace, and in hell, there is noon of that, and so they will be suffering by not having gods presences. A lot like liking a girl who doesn't like you back but 10000000000000000x worse!

>>36187398
>am a good person
Good to who's standards? Remember God, due to his eternity and omnipotence and omniscience, is our source of objective morality and so, therefore, you cannot just create your own. The potter makes from the clay what he wants.

>>36187401
You can study the evidence for christ's resurrection. It is known as one of the certainties of history. Atheist and agnostic scholars all agree that Jesus was crucified. Only Muslims and internet atheist disagree with it. Also, why would he lie? He is a all powerful being who created all things and if he wanted followers he would just create them.

>>36187390
I've been listening to it since you posted and it doesn't seem any different from the usual "smart-guy" tropes.
>we're all slaves man
>free yourself
>muh consciousness
>muh poorly constructed universal dimensions

Come on. None of that shit is even CLOSE to refuting christianity. It's masturbation.

>>36187445
Everything in the bible is purposefully vague and metaphorical so that people can stretch to fit any situation. It's the perfect cover.

>you're gonna burn in hell
>but not physically lmao
>but actually maybe physically, lol
>it's actually a state of mind

>>36187512
>Also, why would he lie?
In Christianity, they make a big deal out of God being beyond human comprehension. He could lie for any damn reason he wanted to, and you shouldn't expect to be able to comprehend it.
It is therefore impossible for you to know that he did not lie.

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>>36187512
Good to most people's standarts, as in nice and caring.

>>36187552
What part of the Bible says hell is a state of mind? Or that you won't experience physical torment. It's pretty consistent in that regard.

>>36187522
Now if you listen to more of it you'll see where those tossed around phrases come into play. I'm not trying to win you over to anything, you're the only one who can do that, but there's no point making conclusions if you won't even give it a go. That's like reading the first chapter of a book and wondering why you don't know what happens at the end.

You should also think about how cliche god rays and heavenly trumpets can sound, and stop applying one way of thinking to everything.

>>36187556
Straw man. You ignored all other parts of my argument and just attacked the bits that seemed easiest to you. Plus you don't even believe in Jesus, I assume, and so you don't think he exists. Plus it says in the bible God cannot lie. And if God sinned then the rest of the Bible would be meaningless.

Actually now you have to prove that he lied since you made a claim and now the burden of proof lies on you.

>>36187552
No, not really. Jesus is quite explicit on that fact. He says there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth so no room for anything else. Just the nature of it you can never know until you actually go there,

>>36187567
Human standards are low. God has the absolute perfect standards and his standards are the only ones that matter. Just read isaiah

>>36187640
It may say that in the Bible, but that could as easily be a lie as anything else God has said. The point is, you have no way of knowing.
As for the rest of your 'argument', it seems to be an irrelevant appeal to authority. I am not disputing Jesus having lived, but if I was it wouldn't matter what supposed experts say.

>>36187575
>>36187668
Jesus also said that people could move mountains and as far as I know the mountain ranges are still intact. Where do you draw the line between parable, metaphor, and literal?

>you'll be in paradise today
>"he didn't mean the _actual_ day"

>wailing and gnashing of teeth
>oh yeah that one is totally literal though

>>36187745
> Where do you draw the line between parable, metaphor, and literal?
By understanding early jewish idioms and rhetorical techniques. If you actually took the time to look into those verses you would know that To remove mountains, a figurative expression for: to accomplish extraordinary results, 1 Corinthians 13:2. Lightfoot on Matthew 21:21; Buxtorf, Lex. Talm. p. 1653. For legends in regard to the actual removing of mountains, see Calovius.
>Meyer's NT Commentary

>>36187715
Well, I gues you also believe that nothing in existence is real also. How do you not know that we are all also in a simulation and isn't real? This is known as radical scepticism.

Also in regards to me appealing to authority. Yes, I'll admit that I am being quite fallacious, but it is also fallacious in its self to disregard my argument for being fallacious. That is a fallacy known as the fallacious fallacy. Sorry for being verbose. But I feel as though because you cannot combat the mountains of scholarly work you then try to call fallacy in an attempt not to have to answer my points.

Also in regards to your point about God might lie to us for a complex reason read this.

>For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
1 Corinthians 14:33

>>36187932
>Well, I gues you also believe that nothing in existence is real also.
You would be wrong. It is infact very easily disproven. In order for me to believe anything, there must be a me. If there is a me, then by definition there is an existence.
>but it is also fallacious in its self to disregard my argument for being fallacious.
No it isn't. It would be fallacious if I said "because you are using fallacious reasoning, your conclusion is wrong".
>>For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
As I said in my last post, that could be a lie aswell.

>>36187991
>You would be wrong. It is in fact very easily disproven. In order for me to believe anything, there must be a me. If there is a me, then by definition there is an existence.
That only proves that you as a person exist not everything around you. You could be a conscious being in an illusionary existence.

>No it isn't. It would be fallacious if I said "because you are using fallacious reasoning, your conclusion is wrong".
And that was what you did.

>As I said in my last post, that could be a lie as well.
Why would he lie though? God an all powerful being who can have and has everything he desires. A being who created you. Why would he lie to you what would he get out of lying to a bunch of finite creatures known as humans?

>>36188094
>That only proves that you as a person exist not everything around you
If I exist, then there is an existence. Existence is simply all that exists.
>And that was what you did.
No, I simply pointed out that your reasoning was fallacious. In my post I even said "I do not dispute Jeus having lived."
>Why would he lie though?
Again, you are presuming you would understand the reason God does anything. Which is, according to Christianity, impossible.

>>36187843
Guess what, in the same passage that he mentions gnashing of teeth, he speaks about walking through a narrow door and sitting at a table with Abraham et al. Is it a literal door? Is it a literal feast? Will the unclean be literally "thrown" into the darkness? Is the darkness literally dark?

>>36188127
>If I exist, then there is an existence. Existence is simply all that exists.
Ok, let me rephrase. That only proves that you exist. But how about the world around you? What proof do you have that you aren't just a being in a computer program created on some super computer?

>No, I simply pointed out that your reasoning was fallacious. In my post, I even said: "I do not dispute Jeus having lived."
But due to it being fallacious you disregard it and try not to even answer the points these scholars make.

>For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
1 Corinthians 14:33

>Again, you are presuming you would understand the reason God does anything. Which is, according to Christianity, impossible.
I don't believe that though. I believe that we can, in fact, know why God has done things. I don't use the "God works in mysterious ways argument". So still why would he lie?

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>ITT: people who have all the correct answers telling people who have all the correct answers they're wrong

>>36188234
>What proof do you have that you aren't just a being in a computer program created on some super computer?
None, but what difference would it make to me?
>But due to it being fallacious you disregard it and try not to even answer the points these scholars make.
You have failed to mention what this point is.
>I don't believe that though.
You don't believe God is beyond comprehension? In that case, wouldn't he just be a very powerful alien intelligence? If you can understand God, then what prevents you from becoming like him?

>>36188186
You are looking at it through Western eyes and methods of interpretation. Also, after this verse you see a change it then goes on to say

>then Jesus returned to the temple courts and began to teach, the chief priests and elders of the people came to Him By what authority are You doing these things they asked And who gave You this authority
Matthew 21:23

So we now see a change of context and setting, so it was not in the same passage. Also, it is very common to talk in a way that goes from and to using a mixture of metaphors and literal language. I understand that it would be hard for a Westerner to understand but in the eyes of the Jews, one would know when and when not he was being literal. Also, I gave good evidence to know when he was being literal and not just re-reading that text and look at the non-biblical references I give.

>>36188234
>What proof do you have that you aren't just a being in a computer program created on some super computer?
What's the difference between "simulation running on a server" and "universe running on heavenly power"

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>>36188278
That doesn't even make sense! originalooo

>>36186842
Remember to be yourself because some omnipotent being is watching you every moment of the day.
Humans evolved from bacteria from space
we evolved to adapt to this world it took a long time to do so but we did it why? because humans are a parasite the "original humans" the Neanderthals and their cousins and so on were all wipe out by the parasite that is Humanity
We've found a host we've kept it alive and we continue to keep it alive through restrictions and protections on the environment aka the host.

Tell me why I can't be both a tranny and a christian

>>36188343
Hmm...the Jews apparently know what he means but they reject him. Are we going down the right road here? They understood his method of speech perfectly and thought he was full of shit. You might say they were filled with pride but everyone would react the same way if a new leader arrived today.

>>36188286
>You don't believe God is beyond comprehension?
Oh, I do. God himself being an eternal being who is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent cannot be understood but his workings I believe can be.

>>36188391
Transsexuality is a sin and god created man and woman. one for the other and going against that would be against the natural order of things.

>>36188395
There's a difference between knowing and understanding. Just because you know something does not mean you accept it.

>>36186842
I don't consider myself Christian but got has sent angels to communicate with me. He granted me the ability to see objective moral right and wrong-- and then challenged me by making it to nobody would believe me even though since I know better now, I have the compulsion to spread the truth. I could never join a church in good conscience because they study the bible, which was written by man and is not the word of God. Am I welcome here?

>>36188438
Doesn't Christianity teach that all humans are sinners?

Why am I excluded from Christianity for existing

>>36188359
It was directed to that other anon who was using radical scepticism and I wanted to use that radical scepticism against himself.

>>36188466
Why would they not accept it if it was not incongruous? Just pride? Is that your answer?

>>36188409
>but his workings I believe can be.
How do you understand his workings without understanding him?

>>36188438
Transsexuality is not a sin. Biggest myth about God there is. God doesn't have a gender and doesn't care about it whatsoever. It was just the best way to reproduce humans without making clones. It's not meant to be taken seriously and divide humanity.

>>36188473
> they study the bible, which was written by man and is not the word of God. Am I welcome here?
No, Sorry for the blunt answer but I'm trying to respond to a lot of people and try to keep your points nice and short. sorry. but you are welcomed here but you're just not a Christian. At best your a heretic.

>>36188488
You're not. That guy has never communicated with God, he is making shit up based on ancient middle eastern morals.

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>>36186842
Hello Christians, I used to be a Christian but drifted away because I started studying the Bible and found it to be immoral. However, I've been feeling an emptiness in my life and want to return to the Lord. But I need to deal with this conflict between my morality and the Bible. So, for example, how do you justify the story of Jephthah? Why did God allow such a heinous thing to occur?

>>36188488
yes it does. You can exist but your desires are sinful ones and yoou should try to prevent them. Also same goes for all people. Paul one of the holiest man in the new testament even had to control himself and discipline his body. Don't think yore being bullied by god but rather he's telling you the way to be saved.

>>36188532
I'm not a heretic. Religion is heresy on its own because youre just making shit up that God said and using it to control people by telling them they won't get to go to heaven if they don't follow your direction

>>36188517
Stubbornness, pride or a host of other things. It is very hard to do things a certain way then change that. also not all jews denied him. the 12 disciples were jews.

>>36188532
I've been listening to you respectively the whole time you've been debating with that one guy but it's obvious your suffering from knowing the unchallengeable truth.

>>36188560
Don't be a Christian. It's wrong and it's not what God wants for humanity.

>>36188525
Proof. If god didn't care about gender then why did he created it in the first place and call them MAN and WOMAN?

>But now, O LORD, you are our Father; we are the clay, and you are our potter; we are all the work of your hand.
Isaiah 64:8

You don't choose who you are god does

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>B-But ours is the right one!

>>36188522
They are two exclusive things. One we humble ourselves to and the other we are to learn from. Why would he give us laws and a book to learn from if it's too complex for us to understand?

>>36188634
>quoting the bible

Oh my god, you're brainwashed. God never wanted this

>>36188573
The way to be saved is only through an existence of pure agony and wanting to die every moment

Why?

>>36188623
Which God are you talking about?

oh rig inil

>>36186842
>2017
>people still can't let go of their retarded delusions

jesus fuck there is no personal god, people.

>inb4 fedoracalling
i don't care

>>36188370
One man's Christianity is another man's Buddhism, anon.

We're all so insular in our beliefs here it's hard to fathom that there are people who believe they are just as right as we are in completely different beliefs.

really makes you think

>>36188681
Think of it this way. If you loved someone woudn't you go to far lengths for them? We spend over a decade of our lives going to school waking up every morning and for what? Just to live and get a job. The love we have for god is why we don't mind going through suffering. we do it because we love god and happily do so. Think of the movie taken and what that guy went through for his daughter.

>>36188664
>They are two exclusive things.
No they are overlapping. For you to know my reason for doing something, you have to know something about how I function. A rat in an experiment cannot understand why humans perform the experiment. It can understand something like doing a certain things means food and doing something else means electric shock, but it couldn't possibly fathom the motivation of the scientists.
Which is why it literally says in the Bible that God works in mysterious ways. Of course this ultimately means that there is no way of knowing if God is sincere or not.

>>36188594
No, that's why christ died. Read my OP. You don't have to do anything. what can you add to the blood of christ that took away all your sins? We have peace with god because we know where we are going.

>>36188770
>God in the gaps

>>36188770
Well, you are right in some sense. I believe that a few things can seem odd in the bible but once you have a personal relationship with God he reveals himself to you, and you begin to understand his reasons as to why he does certain things. But God wouldn't make laws and do things that are so beyond human comprehension for what could we learn from that? Even if he did I doubt he would tell us since it wouldn't do us any good because we wouldn't be able to understand it.

>>36188729
The sacrifice you're asking me to make is far, far more severe than what other Christians have to sacrifice.

This is not "Man, I guess I need to stop drinking, I know it'll be hard but it's God's will and I want to be a better man". This is asking me to accept an unacceptable life, a life of misery and pain. You're essentially saying that to serve God, I need to not exist

>>36188869
Even if you have a relationship with God, you cannot know if God is being sincere towards you or not.

>>>/his/
>>>/pol/
>still trying this hard to advertise your religion
>still trying to abuse people who are in a weak emotional state and need answers

>>36188881
Thanks for that response! You have made the first step into becoming a Christian. You have understood your powerlessness to sin, and that's all God is asking for, well firstly at least. You see no one in the world can do gods law. Not even Moses, Abraham, Isaiah or even Noah. But listen to what Christ says.

>Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Matthew 11:28

Know that Christ took your sins and died on to cross. So you don't have to do anything but believe. Understanding your powerlessness and knowing you need God is the first step in becoming a Christian.

>>36188560
Remember that the Bible is a collection of books, essays and parables. You are under no obligation to believe every piece.

The book of job specifically is something i find to be bullshit. Although the message of it being "nothing material is permanent, life on earth as a mortal vessel is temporary" ya that makes sense but i straight up don't believe that God would kill a mother and her child, leave the man, and then reward the man with a new wife. It's against Christ's teachings to begin with, thou shalt not marry a widower and so on. It's just a stupid story.

Pick and choose what you want.

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>>36188910
Why would he lie? Doesn't make sense for a all powerful being to lie.

Sorry for pic I dont wanna wait 59 seconds to post

>>36189001
Why would the actions of an incomprehensible being make sense to you?

>>36188881
What is your desire? To transition into a man or woman? You are given the choice now.

I'm not sure what the other anon is trying to tell you. Sounds like he's just bullshiting around the point.

Yes the human body experience is temporary, but nobody, especially not god is telling you to whip yourself for their amusement. Do what you feel is necessary, don't kill yourself and live a kind and generous life.

>>36189022
Because he revealed it to me to understand. Why would he give me something to learn from that I couldn't understand.

>>36188594
Jesus forbade the use of institutionalising religion. We're on the same page when you say that the pope is a neocon puppet.

The Vatican is shit, don't think you have to listen to them. But a local church based around a community is pretty much what is intended.

hey guys if I didn't get to answer your points then feel free to repost them to this comment so I have a chance to respond.

>>36189055
>Because he revealed it to me to understand.
He could have revealed it to you to misunderstand.

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>trying to be strait again

>pray to God every night

>getting more gay by the day

Help me brothers.

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>>36188652
Look at what the world bases the current year on.

Das rite.
Jesus Christ.

>>36189102
??? That doesn't even make sense and is not the intention of the bible. Now I think you're just being desperate and trying to pull out any argument you can that is against Christianity.

How can he reveal something to us to not understand?

>>36189043
I was born a male but I live my life as though I was born female, meaning I dress like a girl, practiced my voice so that it sounds like a girl's voice, and adopted female mannerisms instead of male mannerisms. Christianity appeals to me greatly because I want to have a simple, pure life and to live for a higher purpose. I have never felt like I had a family or community or belonged anywhere and Christianity provides that, as well as provides a way for me to give back. It's endlessly frustrating that my existence is considered sinful and Christians won't accept me for being this way

>don't kill yourself and live a kind and generous life.
I only felt like killing myself before I transitioned. It's not ideal, but I feel like I have a peaceful life now, one that I appreciate and am grateful for. Going back to living as a guy, living against my own nature and instincts, would be unbearable and would not be a life worth living to me, and Christians telling me I have to do that in order to be a Christian is incredibly disheartening.

>>36189166
Hey, did you read what I wrote to you here?>>36188967

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>>36189105
Make up for it by working at a soup kitchen and helping around the community.

Hint: blowing the hobos who come into the soup kitchen negates your experience

>>36189158
>That doesn't even make sense
It could make sense to God.
>is not the intention of the bible.
That is not for you to say.
>Now I think you're just being desperate and trying to pull out any argument you can that is against Christianity.
I am not desperate. I am just revealing to you, an inherent contradiction in your worldview.

>>36189182
I did read it, and thank you for writing it, I just didn't know how to respond.

I don't think I can say that I really believe in God completely, but I know that I want to.

>>36189200
>It could make sense to God.
No, it couldn't.

>That is not for you to say.
It is in fact.

>I am not desperate. I am just revealing to you, an inherent contradiction in your worldview.
yeah, I'm gonna ignore you now. Come back with better bait. If you can't see why that's a stupid and desperate argument then I really wouldn't even know how to begin responding to you.

>>36189166
Well. Your sexuality is private. Keep it to yourself. If you find a lover that accepts you, then that's great. Go doesn't judge you for your physical body. He made you as you are, I'd you can overcome the prejudice and become a kinder person despite how people have treated you then fuck ya you will be loved by God.

>>36189182
I have a question that i don't have the answer to. What would you say she should do when she decides to go to confession?

>>36189248
>No, it couldn't.
How do you know what could and could not make sense to God?
>It is in fact.
So you see yourself as some little demagogue in charge of Christianity. How not like Christ.
>yeah, I'm gonna ignore you now.
It is quite apparent, that you are at your wit's end.

>>36189258
>What would you say she should do when she decides to go to confession?
I am not a catholic and believe that confessions do nothing unless it's to god and then leads you bearing fruits IE doing good works

>>36189323
That's even better. Ya, confessions seem pretty pointless. Everything you say intending to be to god doesn't need a mediator.

>>36189290
>How do you know what could and could not make sense to God?
Well, if it's a blatant contradiction then not it could not if it's just something very complex that humans cannot understand then he could probably understand that.

>So you see yourself as some little demagogue in charge of Christianity. How not like Christ.
No, I do not see myself as a mini demagogue... lol. It is because I was instructed in the bible to learn from it and teach it to others and it would be very odd for God to give me a text that I couldn't understand and therefore not teach others.

>It is quite apparent, that you are at your wit's end.
Ah yes. You have my backs to the ropes and beat me in an arduous and prolonged fight which I can only say that I have fallen in.

>>36189461
>Well, if it's a blatant contradiction
If I lead someone to believe something I do not believe myself, then that is no contradiction. That is just God misleading you for whatever reason.
>It is because I was instructed in the bible to learn from it and teach it to others and it would be very odd for God to give me a text that I couldn't understand and therefore not teach others.
It is up to God to say what the purpose of the Bible is. Is it not?

>>36189608
>It is up to God to say what the purpose of the Bible is. Is it not?
It is, and God tells us to read the Bible day and night and meditating on it. If it's purpose were for us not to understand it, then That would be very odd considering that he tells us to study it and teach others it.

>>36189688
Very odd to you, maybe not so odd for God. If a rat could think it would probably find the idea of humans conducting an experiment on it odd.

>>36189778
I really don't think I'm getting anywhere. You are telling me to ignore clear biblical passages proving the intention as to why the bible was written. No one would ever come to that conclusion because it is clearly wrong. And it'll be beyond odd. But I bet this is all going over your head right now oh well. I'm going to the store I'll be back in about 10 minutes.

>>36186842
I don't believe you enter heaven by faith alone. I believe you enter heaven by repentance.
I'm sure there are many repentant sinners who aren't sure if they will be permitted to enter the kingdom of God. I would not turn them away.

you have to be unbelievably stupid to make it to adulthood and still believe christian fairytales

>>36189846
I am not telling you to ignore anything. I am asking you how you know God doesn't lie. If I said to you, "I never lie", you wouldn't consider that proof that I never lied, because I could have lied to you.
The same for God. The passages in your Bible doesn't prove anything.

>>36189885
I believe that it was faith alone. The of the best things about Christ is that he freed us from the shackles of the law. If you wanted to be justified by the law, then you would have to follow all over 6oo of them, which is impossible, and even if you don't do them then you still have to account for sins in the hearts like looking at a woman is considered adultery. It is impossible, and the wages of sins is death. The law was created just to show how sinful man was not to be followed exactly since we cannot do it.

But read this

>For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Romans 3:28

>>36188699
The only God. The genderless God who made everything

>>36189082
Community churches are the right idea, but they all teach the bible.

>>36188781
God never raped Mary, fuck you.

>>36190256
I said it earlier that the Bible is a collection of written worries written by men. You read hem for yourself and you get to decide which one is true to you. If you don't believe in the passage that they talk about you are free to travel to different churches. And if they all don't appeal to you than compromise.

Do any Christians here believe in manifestation? Meaning trying to force a reality into existence through action as well as intent/thought/prayer etc?

A lot of occult stuff revolves around manifestation since it's trying to change things on different levels of existence.

Do you guys feel like devout Christian girls are less shallow?

>>36190438
I know what's true so I'm my own church. It's a curse that nobody will ever believe me.

>>36189923
But why would he lie? Still never got an answer for that. I wouldn't believe you because you're human and humans lie and sin all the time and also because it wouldn't do me any good,

File: 2xMebb8.jpg (344KB, 1365x2048px) Image search: [Google]

344KB, 1365x2048px

>>36190256
>God never raped Mary, fuck you.
Never said he did. What's your point btw?

>>36190629
You can't imagine reason =//= God has no reason. God is incomprehensible, remember?

>>36190655
He didn't impregnate some teenage girl in her room at night.

>>36190659
yeah but your assertions is backed by less evidence than you are accusing me of using. If your entire argument relies on maybes ifs and a bunch of unfalsifiable arguments then you really don't have an argument at all.

>>36190710
You can't even begin to determine what is evidence for and against in this case. That would require you to be able to understand God.

>tfw voluntary celibate gay christian
>fundamentalists still think i'm a faggot even though i don't intend on taking it in the ass in my lifetime
>blaspheming /lgbt/ leftist "christians" who insist that the bible doesn't matter and you should indulge in whatever form of degenerate hedonism you want think i'm oppressed by bigots

>>36190746
I don't believe that god would do anything outside human comprehension the tell us to follow it.

god is not a god of confusion.

>>36190750
You're setting yourself up for a big failure based on faith in the bible instead of faith in God.

>>36190792
What kind of nu-Christian doublespeak is this?

>>36190746
Also, we have scripture. Think of it this way. You don't believe in the bible I'm assuming so to you it's a storybook and if someone writes a story and the character lets say can never lie you'd have to believe that. You can't read harry potter and say he can't do magic because you never saw him it's a part of the story. And when you come at it from this point of view you have to believe in the character god is this way because that was the way he was written.

>>36190814
I'm not a Christian. I'm a messenger of God. The whole story is kind of unbelievable, but basically the bible is 100% a work.of human hands free of divine inspiration and it's just propaganda of the time to frighten jews into behaving.

>>36190785
What you believe doesn't have a direct impact on what is.
>>36190829
>and the character lets say can never lie you'd have to believe that.
Yes, but that is because I have accepted the author as an authority on his story. Since it is a work of fiction I do not question the rules established by the author.
If it was an autobiography or something similar, I definitely would.

>>36190867
Congratulations you can state facts that are well known literally everywhere outside of the USA and South America well done

>>36190889
>What you believe doesn't have a direct impact on what is.
Yeah, but what way is there exactly to prove that you never lie? There really isn't one, but then again there is no reason why God would even lie to us. Your entire argument is so weak and has not evidence to prove why he would lie just a bunch of "ifs" "maybes" and "could ofs". God wouldn't contradict himself. He even says in the bible he cannot lie. If God sinned then could not have died for our sins since a guilty man cannot die for a guilty man. The entire Bible would fall and nothing would make sense.

>>36191015
>God wouldn't contradict himself.
You cannot dictate what God would do. God said to Abraham"I want you to kill your son", but that wasn't what he wanted.

>>36191000
Nobody believes me about what God really wants.

>>36191055
No, you are paraphrasing off of genesis 22:2 but if you read just before it says that he wanted to test him. He wasn't contradicting himself since God didn't want Abraham to kill his son just to see if Abraham had the devotion to god to do so.

And I know for a fact that god wouldn't contradict himself from what I read in scripture.

>>36191141
>He wasn't contradicting himself since God didn't want Abraham to kill his son just to see if Abraham had the devotion to god to do so.

>Take your son to the land of Moriah and kill your son there as a sacrifice for me. This must be Isaac, your only son, the one you love.
>Don''t kill your son or hurt him in any way. Now I can see that you do respect and obey God. I see that you are ready to kill your son, your only son, for me.

The second statement contradicts the first statement. Sure, God wanted to test Abraham, but what this shows is that God can tell a lie if he has a reason for doing it.

>>36191283
Lying is a sin, God doesn't sin, ergo bible is fake.
I'm not fucking around guys, the bible is a sham.

>>36191283
Yes but the verse prior to Genesis 22:2 tells us as to why he did it. To test his devotion. Throughout this discussion, you have tried to make the claim that God would just like for either no reason or for a reason so complex that man could not understand. These verses do not only not prove that since the reason for this was within man's understanding but also doesn't prove he lied since the two weren't lies but commands.

>>36191370
Yes, but God did not tell Abraham his reason prior to telling him to kill Isaac.
Therefore if God was testing you again, he would not tell you that he was lying to test your critical reasoning.

>>36191437
>Therefore if God was testing you again, he would not tell you that he was lying to test your critical reasoning.
Yeah I agree in real life people don't have the voice of god speaking to them and telling them things but in scripture, we were told prior that he did it to test Abraham. but you are saying that he would lie in his revelation without telling us like he did in this case or without an understandable reason which you assert.

>>36191566
>but you are saying that he would lie in his revelation without telling us like he did in this case or without an understandable reason which you assert.
The reason could be understandable to him and not to you. If he is God then he knows exactly what consequences any action has and so can make plans that spans infinitudes.

>>36191619
If he lied then he could not have died for our sins and we are still in ours sins. remember a guilty man cannot die for a guilty man but a non-guilty man can take the place of a guilty man like christ did on the cross.

Also, god doesn't do things that are incomprehensible to man then puts it in his holy book which we are to learn from because what could we learn from if god made a square cube?

>>36191702
God couldn't make a square cube because it is just 2 seperate words put together that doesn't refer to anything. There is no meaning behind 'square cube', just like there is no meaning behind 'dfdfiodsfdsfods'.
God could lie to us, like he lied to Abraham. He could lie to us about having lied to Abraham. God is beyond human reason. Maybe by doing so, he will achieve some result beyond humanity.

Did any of you convert to Christianity? Can you outline the steps leading to your conversion?

>>36191795
>like he lied to Abraham
He did not lie to Abraham he tested him. saying if yu believe in me you will enter heaven and when someone believes and does not go heaven then that would be a lie. But god said do action a and then stopped the person from doing action a is not a lie but rather a nullification of a command. Besides exactly before he told us why he did it, which was within human comprehension.

Also again with the straw man answer all of my points besides breaking it up and choosing the easiest part for you to respond to.

>>36190700
What do you mean? He did but not using sexual intercourse if that's what you mean.

>>36191896
You believe just what you want to believe. Maybe God does not value this self-centered gullibility. Maybe he wants to seperate the chaff from the wheat.
You can not say "God would not lie to me", because what you mean is "I do not want God to lie to me". Though you admit that God is beyond your comprehension, you seek to impose your will on his.

>>36191942
>God is beyond your comprehension
He himself is, but not what he has revealed to us. I can't understand eternity I cannot understand how God was always there, but I can understand the intention behind what you has revealed through scripture.

Also since you're saying stuff like what if he's lying well what if he's telling the truth? What if he actually died your sins and is waiting for you to come to him what if he really does love you and care bout you? You cannot give me a single reason why he would lie to us humans, but I can give you a ton of reason why I think he's telling the truth.

Also, I know it to be true because the message of the Bible flows from sin entering into the world through one man called adam and leaving through one man called Christ and for God to be lying then the entire Bible would fall apart christ death on the cross would bemeaningless and we would al still be in our sins.

>>36192170
>You cannot give me a single reason why he would lie to us humans
I did in my last post, but it means little, because those are human reasons.
>Also, I know it to be true because the message of the Bible flows from sin entering into the world through one man called adam and leaving through one man called Christ and for God to be lying then the entire Bible would fall apart christ death on the cross would bemeaningless
and we would al still be in our sins.
That is just meaningless tautology invented by catholic monks in the middle ages. If God wanted to fix human behavior he wouldn't have to die some symbolic death on the cross. He could fix it any way he wished.

>>36192286
>I did in my last post, but it means little, because those are human reasons.
No, you just said it could be a reason that was so complex that we humans couldn't understand it and again it purely relies on nothing but "ifs, maybes and could ofs" and thus is a weak argument that radical sceptics use which doesn't really get the argument going anywhere.

>That is just meaningless tautology invented by Catholic monks in the middle ages
No, this was a belief that was prevalent in the 1st century and was even admitted by Paul.

>And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.
1 Corinthians 15:17

>If God wanted to fix the human behaviour, he wouldn't have to die some symbolic death on the cross.
Why not? Remember the wages of sin is death and all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God.

>He could fix it any way he wished.
Yeah, now this boils down to flow. The reason why this way he did it was so special was because he showed us his omnibenevolence by dying for our sins on the cross. Which also flows with the teachings of the Bible that the wages of sin is death.

>>36192510
>No
>>Maybe God does not value this self-centered gullibility.
>No, this was a belief that was prevalent in the 1st century and was even admitted by Paul.
You do not know what Paul believed, you only know what the monks wanted the canon to be.
>Why not? Remember the wages of sin is death and all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God.
Because the act of dying isn't required
>The reason why this way he did it was so special was because he showed us his omnibenevolence by dying for our sins on the cross.
So you admit it is just posturing and not actually an act in which he literally took all sin upon himself and washed it away.

>>36192597
>You do not know what Paul believed, you only know what the monks wanted the canon to be.
History lesson. First of all, no scholar doubts that Corinthians was written by Paul himself. It is one fo the earliest accounts of Pauls writings, and you can search everywhere to try to disprove it. Also, during the early days of the church, there was never a time when a group or people owned the Bible. Christians were a prosecuted minority and had no power. It was, in fact, illegal to even be a Christian and so it was impossible for one single group to decide to corrupt it. We know exactly what Paul believe. Also, when the Bible was being written people write it themselves and so everyone had their own copy and so if someone decided to change something it would have stuck out like a saw thumb. They would be like why does your bibe say somehing different to mines? Also there are a bunch of evidence outrside the bible that this was what they believed which I would love to get into if you wish for me to.

>Because the act of dying isn't required
What? The wages of sin are death. Look at the old testament and the way they would kill sheeps to take away their sins for the year. This was a a sign of the comming messiah, the one who would take away all ourt sins and be the once and for all final sacrifice.

>So you admit it is just posturing and not actually an act in which he literally took all sin upon himself and washed it away.
He did take all ourt sins away but along with it also showed his love for us by dying for a stuborn poeple who wern't even looking for repentace.

>>36192898
>History lesson. First of all, no scholar doubts that Corinthians was written by Paul himself.
Logical fallacy, appeal to authority.
History lesson. There are no books that can be dated back to the period of Paul's life. Only so-called copies.
>What? The wages of sin are death
Literal idiocy. Sin is human behavior. You do not fix human behavior by killing yourself.
This is exactly what I mentioned earlier. Tautology invented by the same monks who were making 'logical proofs' to prove the existence of God and the divinity of the catholic church.

>>36192971
>Logical fallacy, appeal to authority.
A straw man and fallacious in it'self. You do not respond to a paragraph of texts first line and then disregard everything else. Also, you are making a fallacy itself called the fallacious fallacy.

>History lesson. There are no books that can be dated back to the period of Paul's life. Only so-called copies.
We do in fact, p42 is a fragment from Johns gospel that is dated sometime during the year 90-100. We also have early church fathers quoting from the nt making us able to rebuild the nt almost fully that come prior to that time thus why some people date the gospel as early as the year 40, only decades after Christ died and during the lifetimes of the Jerusalem disciples.

>Literal idiocy. Sin is human behaviour. You do not fix human behaviour by killing yourself.
No, you've got it all wrong the wages of sin was death and so fro no one to go hell Christ himself paid the penalty so you wouldn't have to and so now we can enter into heaven, but nothing unclean can enter heaven. His death on the cross was not the end, but a means to an end.

>Tautology invented by the same monks
Proof and see my first paragraph here>>36192898

>>36192971
Actually just checked and it's actually p52

>>36193204
>is a fragment from Johns gospel that is dated sometime during the year 90-100

Carbon 14 is unreliable for dating something in that timeframe. There is a variance in the level of background radiation making the margin of error too large to make such a statement. There is also the 'carbon-age' of the organic material used to take into consideration. A pile of dirt from your garden may date back a thousand years according to carbon testing.
>Christ himself paid the penalty so you wouldn't have to and so now we can enter into heaven
This doesn't make intuitive sense to anyone. It is nothing but tautology. God is all powerful, he does not have to die in order to make someone clean. It is an attempt to tie the cruxifiction story into some primitive dogmatic metaphysic.