>>54953796 The battle flag is overused and has multiple meanings in the modern context. I think it's impossible to disavow the good or the bad ones, which is why we should just go by what Robert E Lee said in 1869:
"My engagements will not permit me to be present, and I believe if there I could not add anything material to the information existing on the subject. I think it wiser, moreover, not to keep open the sores of war, but to follow the example of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, and to commit to oblivion the feelings it engendered."
I don't think any side that lost a war has as much hero worship surrounding it in their native region as the Southern Confederacy currently does.
>>54953796 all it meant was southern pride before the libkikes tore it down. Sure, some bed sheet wearing rednecks used to fly it, so what? I'm from the south that flags means southern pride to me. Its on the Mississippi state flag, and Mississippi is full of niggers. Its benign. Not the same thing as a swastika
>>54954716 Not completely true. It was gone for decades after the war ended and made a resurgence in popularity later. Take your own example. The current Mississippi flag showed up in the 1890s after Reconstruction was over and has 13 stars to symbolize the 13 colonies/not 11 stars to symbolize the 11 confederate states.
It's the flag of butthurtville now, or maybe it's a beacon that turns liberals into slime when they look at it.
I was born in Wyoming and now live in Colorado so idk how I really feel about it, it's something I don't know enough about to make an opinion on. I would've supported the confederacy desu senpai, having different nations within America would've been cool.
Depends on the context. On the back of a truck? Redneck. On a lawn/hanging from a house? Is there an actual star spangled banner there? Yes? Patriot/Old Vet No? Redneck If it's beside a Mexican flag? (yes, it does happen) Based
For the most part the flag represents State's Rights and at it's apex freedom of expression. I personally give less of a fuck about anything else. Oh well.
>>54955495 >Implying the north wasn't the one committing treason against the US Constitution and the very reason the country was founded Stay a slave then but don't go around spreading their propaganda for them
>>54953796 I've known too many people who see it as southern pride and nothing more to say it's a symbol of racism. You don't get to decide what peoples symbols mean for them. Anyone who said otherwise is an arrogant cunt.
Treason. Plain and simple. This shit used to not be tolerated. It used to get you tortured and killed. If they had one we would not be the global superpower we are now. Edgelords don't care though, because "hurr durr dee niggers"
it confuses me too, because the "rebel" flag was a battle flag and did not represent the confederacy. it was the virginia battle flag, also tennessee. my previous post on this thread has the first flag of the confederacy. if anything represents slavery that is it, not the battle flag
>>54955846 It was an attempt at secession. A right our states supposedly have. The north create a bullshit excuse to invade after the fact (fort sumpter) in an attempt to "save the union". Because the north would've struggled on it's own without the southern farms and exports backing them up. So they went to war. Over money and power.
The south seceded for independence from federal law that didn't represent them, in part: slavery and taxation. The war was started over money.
There's a chap who runs a country and western weekend every year near me and he flies the confederate flag every day. He's a crazy bastard, even built a giant American style wooden barn so him and his mates could have ho-downs or whatever.
Used to not care it was a pretty design. Then learned the murderous rampage the south suffered under oppression and tyranny by the north was remembered by it, and saw it was a big amount of pride for tens of millions of Americans.
Then the demolibshits had their insane rampage, trampling all over another American flag symbol, so now it means the god damned insane assholes of the USA need to be stopped.
>>54956154 Reminder that Northerners and Nazis think virtually the same way.
>Our people are the ubermensch >Everyone else is culturally inferior to us >Eugenics/Abortion is the solution to dealing with inferior people (eugenics was actually popularized by philanthropic organizations run by Northern businessmen like Carnegie, Ford, and Rockerfeller, it was only adopted by the Nazis a decade after the US first instituted eugenics laws) >We have the right Indian Lands as Lebensraum >We have the right to stomp around in other parts of the world and take other people's shit >We can kill anyone who gets in our ways
>>54956498 Fun fact: The last slaves in the US were slaves under the American flag. Emancipation proclamation only freed slaves in areas that the union captured from the confederacy. Slaves in Maryland were still slaves until some time after the war.
>>54953796 >I'm especially interested in how people overseas see it.
Old bikers and rebels. That's all I ever associated with it. Bikes, leather and stuff. Until later when I then read about all those political implications and the debate in the US. But before I became politicized, I always just associated it with bikers in the desert.
my family has been here since the mid 1600s and has people fight in all the major wars, etc, and i had family on the confederate side(pretty sure the north too), and my family still has photos and memorabilia from them. My mom showed me a folded up confederate flag one time, lol. They make it sound like it wasn't really about slaves at all, and I know my family basically stays quiet about their confederate belongings because people freak out from them. to me the flag seems cool because the south had so little but had such a great army and fought well, so it seems kinda rebellious, but I hate that it has become associated with such trash, and i dont know what to believe about the confederacy anymore because of all the shit written about it, but i'm sure there were still lots of bad people fighting for them
It's undefinable. It's culture. During all the BLM bullshit protests, where the Yankee and New York Jew bused in negroes from Detroit for staged crisis events, all the white AND black people in my city held confederate flags in the downtown square and had a cook out together. How much media coverage did it get? Zero.
>>54956545 Good question for someone who doesn't know the context--
It's somewhat like Finns vs Soviets. Man for man, we whipped their asses, and they all admitted as much, but they were able to send enough cannon fodder in the form of poor irish immigrants in a zerg rush of sorts. The confederates were better soldiers--no argument.
Second, everyone also knows that the south was a gentleman's culture. Even the poor of the south had more honor than the merchants and slaves of the north. still do. Union biographies are rife with their guys talking about how honorable and suave the confederates were.
Third, the south rebelled, and the flag is a one of rebels. Americans like America, but we don't like the jewish abortion of a country this has become, and we remember our rebellious past.
Fifth, lost cause romanticism. The wonder of what could have been (what the founders intended).
>>54956680 >Reminder that Northerners and Nazis think virtually the same way.
Is that supposed to be an insult?
>>Our people are the ubermensch
To northern merchants and their wage-slave? Yes.
>>Everyone else is culturally inferior to us
Every culture should feel this way, else, why have one?
>>Eugenics/Abortion is the solution to dealing with inferior people (eugenics was actually popularized by philanthropic organizations run by Northern businessmen like Carnegie, Ford, and Rockerfeller, it was only adopted by the Nazis a decade after the US first instituted eugenics laws)
Again, bad thing? And wth are you getting at, trying to blame northern magnates on the south? Where are we going here?
>>We have the right Indian Lands as Lebensraum
The north wasn't built on indian land? gtfo.
>>We have the right to stomp around in other parts of the world and take other people's shit
Which is what the north did, again, what are you trying to get at here?
>>We can kill anyone who gets in our ways
This is what ameriKwa does around the world every day, and it's certainly not a southern phenomena. The south was for hands-off confederacy, the north was for intervention. This yankee moralizing is seen today in drone strikes.
>>54956417 I really want to go to the british isles to see shit like this. As a Texan who works at a country and western clothing store (my standard dress is boots, tight jeans, big texas belt buckle, plaid, flanel, or denim jacket w/ matching hat). I just love foreigners. Had an aussie come in the other day, bought some work boots. >so why are you the only white one innit? >I dunno, i speak spanish >well sonofabitch
Who gives a shit, it was convenience and corruption by the pig asshole Lincoln.
All the idiot fucking sheep can't stop talking about slavery, it's all your mind can possibly conceive, or know. YOU'RE A WASTE OF TEXT SPACE AND IT'S NOT FUN NOR IS IT A FACT, IT'S YOUR GOD DAMNED STUPIDITY.
>>54955967 that wasn't the only reason. Lincoln wanted to increase tax on agriculture, and decrease tax on industry, while at the same time he wanted to abolish slavery, decreasing how much money you could make with agriculture. Slavery would have been abolished in the south as well, had they been given more time. Furthermore, slaves in the south were treated better than slaves in the north. In the end, black people didn't really profit from slavery ending, since they could barely get jobs, didn't have the same rights as white people and got paid less in the case they actually got a job. Slavery wasn't racist, it was purely economical and it untill the 19th century it was normal almost everywhere in the world. black people were enslaved because they had inferior technology, and could put up less of a fight
>>54954572 >i think the world would be better today if the north and south had been kept separate. by uniting them, you created too much internal conflict, which hurt everyone
In reality, it's not close to as bad as what you probably believe. When was the last time you heard of either a Southerner or Northerner doing anything of significance against the other part of the country. Many Northerners move or vacation in the South regularly. This wouldn't happen of true anger existed.
I'm from Kentucky and see this shit all of the time. Even if we never truly succeeded, our culture tries too hard to be southern. It's almost like we try to be accepted by the Deep South, even though we're watered down south lite.
I saw something the other day that summed up Kentucky pretty well. It was a 370z Nissian with a confederate flag license plate. It doesn't bother me because I can't stand political correctness and how it suddenly just now offends everyone.
>>54958129 >that wasn't the only reason It damn sure was the main one.
The fight was over a state's right to determine its own policies. I don't dispute that. But by a huge amount the reason the South valued this right so highly was because they wanted to keep their slaves. All the Southern apologist revisionism in the world won't change that.
>>54958359 Wrong. It symbolizes race-based hatred as the foundation of how whites of the South tries to see themselves as different. It doesn't include blacks of the South. You need to make that completely clear.
>>54953796 These are the legitimate Flags of the Confederacy that I have no problem with because they were used to represent the Conderacy and have historical value. The one you presented OP are the ones used by Klansmen and White Supremacists during the Civil Rights Movements to give the activists big Fuck You
>>54958524 He may have done a bunch of stupid shit, but LBJ was spot on with this. People don't use flat out racist rhetoric half the time down here anymore, but there's plenty of coded language used to manipulate often low education voters who still hold those views.
>>54959056 So is ours, the only reason I know this shit is because we spent an entire a lesson on different variations of "north = good+freedom, south=bad+oppression" and I didn't believe it. Same thing goes for national socialism, I don't treat people differently because of their race, and I don't tell people what to believe, but as soon as I tell them I'm a national socialist they want nothing to do with me. Funny thing is that one of the few people who accept the fact that I'm a nazi is a jew (and he's a nice guy)
A flag for the 1800s which is not good or evil, but trying to resurrect the nation it stood for is a little futile. There is a distinctive southern region defined mostly by a shared dialect, the Southern Baptist convention, SEC and ACC (before it took northern teams), and several regional corporations. Trying to retrofit a country designed for 1800 agrarian high society to a suburban sub-nation of pickup trucks, strip malls, hunting, McMansions and college football is not going to work. Two different worlds. The flag should be about remembering veterans, but beyond that it is not very useful for anything other than stirring up racial hatred due to its ties to slavery (which somehow doesn't apply to the American flag.) The south needs a new emblem.
>>54955230 >>54954483 >Liberal faggots think the Confederate flag means racism >When blacks owned black slaves in the North >Implying it doesn't represent the agricultural south where men bled and fought with their brothers-in-arms while Ulysses S Grant brought immigrants in by the literal boat load >Promising them land if they fought for the Union >Implying the South didn't lose because of being not only out-sourced but out-numbered >Implying niggers deserve the freedom they got
>>54953796 >Overseas I know the facts about the civil war, that it was a war against taxation and land ownership legislature, that it was an injust invasion of sovereign territory, as the South had the legal right to secede. That Lincoln hated blacks and supported slavery, and was merely trying to incite slaves against their owners and appear moralistic; while many of the confederate leaders actually rejected slavery.
But of course, I am the minority, and most people in my country will just vomit the same old propaganda you'd expect. The confederates were evil slavers and the Union were good liberators.
>>54961342 >>Implying the South didn't lose because of being not only out-sourced but out-numbered didn't help, but they lost because of their culture, specifically they needed to win a defensive war but Lee was too offensive. From what I've read.
Also, >claims confederate flag isn't racist >makes racist comments you guys are pretty funny. Enjoy being a reviled fringe minority in your own "homeland"
Means nothing to me. Personally I don't see why a bunch of redneck assholes cling onto it for dear life like food is being taken out of their children's mouths when they lost the war, but at the same time we can't simply ignore that the war ever happened. So yeah, it means nothing to me.
>>54953796 >>54953796 I live in the South and I'll tell you what it symbolizes. It's the symbol of Southern pride. It's a symbol of Southern heritage. It reflects a people's desire to live under their own banner, a yearning for revaunchism against an enemy that is no longer isolated unto the North.
It's a symbol for rural uneducated white niggers who live at the heights of hypocrisy and in the abyss of ignorance and moral depravity. They claim to value their heritage, a heritage of carelessly rejecting the social contract they were born to. They claim to value the family, but their families are rife with sorrow and abuse. They claim to cherish their protestant values, but they cling to their liqueur and guns with their thoughts bent solely on short term gratification.
Only in the South does pride commeth after the fall.
I can see both sides of the coin. The confederate flag is one of those issues that I honestly never made my mind up on.
On one hand, confederates used the flag to fight for secession -- and I'm no statist, so that I can get behind. But confederates also represented more than that; i.e. advocates for states rights -- which I also support -- but not if your states rights include provisions for egregious human suffering. A lot of southerners who grew up with it hear it means "southern pride", states rights, independence, or some other happy go lucky term. I think that's fairly dishonest and leaning into the same logical dogma postmodernists use.
On the other hand, the flag is rarely used with any malicious intent. To its constituents, the flag is a genuine symbol of southern pride.
I guess when all is said and done we are, for better or for worse, a union. As such, I'm not sure that states or other government bureaus should be flying the flag and therefore representing its ideas.
Though, I'm not sure the fed should be the one handling the legislation of squelching a states' right to free expression. I think that people should call their god damn senators if they care enough to want it down.
>>54953796 Southlandfag here. Since about 1972, this flag stands for only a few things:
1. I like Lynyrd Skynyrd and other hard country/southern rock bands. 2. I am from a rural part of the South and revel in that fact. 3. I like offending liberals and Northerners, who are all faggots. (Flag Trolling).
Anyone making more out of it than that is a Jew from New York.
>>54953796 Symbolizes southern states in civil war. I see it just as symbol of one of very few interesting historical things america has to offer. Also reminds me that south back then made lot of really good songs, and later "rednecks" made bunch of other good ones.
>>54953796 Well I guess it USED to symbolize rebellion and standing up for yourself against authority, but then you kekservative southerners gave it up without any real fight, and now it just symbolizes your own surrender.
Seriously, let's look at South Carolina in particular. An immigrant chick governor who rolled on the flag issue within HOURS. Two quasi-openly-gay senators, one of whom was picked entirely on the basis of race. And Trey Gowdy, who is perhaps the most twinkle-toed-looking dude in the entire congress.
WTF happened? You used to have Strom Thurmond. A Democrat like Fritz Hollings had more southern pride and balls than all your precious modern-day Republicans combined.
>>54965376 Saving this. I'm a Mississippian and have a strong value on civic life, family, and faith and legitimately try to practice them in my behavior. Seeing the "MUH PRIDE/HERITAGE" crowd all fired up about "evil traitors" when their own homes are dens of strife and moral decay boils my blood.
>>54966174 >I'm no statist. >states rights -- which I also support lulwat? Are you even listening to yourself? >fed should be the one handling the legislation of squelching a states' right to free expression. Ummm. Where is the Republican controlled congress handling this legislation? > think that people should call their god damn senators if they care enough to want it down. Hmm, well maybe they should, " fight for secession" > states' right to free expression Individuals have a right to free expression. How does a State have a right to free expression? Come on.
>>54967572 hahaha. A 9th grade history course? Isn't that a petty remark? You show me where in our laws, a state itself, has the right of freedom of expression. That's like saying a state has the right to practice its own religion.
>>54968261 Unless you can point out where in the constitution these rights are withheld from the states then they can do whatever they like. In theory, anyway. In fact the violation of that principle is what caused the civil war in the first place (yes it was because of slavery specifically, but forcibly freeing the slaves is not a power granted to the federal government and that action in itself is a violation of the principle of states' rights as given in the constitution), and the federal government hasn't slowed down since.
>>54967440 Thank you. I don't hate the South and I'm not unsympathetic to "state's rights". I just hate hypocrisy and self-contradiction. Living in a southern city that's gerrymandered to hell, where our taxes go to back to the state house and we're coerced into adopting their policies if we want it back, makes my blood boil when most "conservatives" talk about states rights.
>>54968605 And yet you responded, evasively, addressing none of your self-contradictions and in no way proving that a state in and of itself is guaranteed the right to freedom of expression. Nowhere in our long and storied history has this ever been so. Whether at the federal or state level, freedom of expression is a right guaranteed to the individual, not to the state.
As a native of North MS I'd wager you're full of shit unless things have just spiraled in recent years. My brother lives right outside of Tupelo and I went there all the time on weekends as a kid and never had a single problem.
>>54968629 >>54968629 Wow, where to begin. First off many people consider the term "state's rights" to be a misnomer. The constitution only grants rights to individuals and groups of individuals by extension, but not directly to groups or states for that matter. "Following western liberal tradition, constitutional rights in the United States are framed as individual rather than group rights. Courts, however, routinely recognized group rights. Corporate entities, which are voluntary communities of shareholders, have..."(http://digitalcommons.law.umaryland.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1004&context=rrgc)
What you're really referring to are the powers delegated to the states.
The constitution does not have to explicitly deny a state certain powers or entitlements, for those powers or entitlements to be deemed unconstitutional. Further more, certain State legislation or constitutional law can be struck down if it is in violation of the constitution's Supremacy Clause.
>>54953796 It will be a flag of the US rebels in the upcoming civil war in USA. The loyalist side will try and demonize it because the rebels will be supported by Russia and China. It will have battalions of veterans and a semi-commie battalion that isnt openly commie. They will be all armed with Igla launchers remade to shoot down drones, not only aircraft. They will be mostly white folks. And they will lose the war unless they conquer the states that host nuclear weapon facilities. They will be the rebels. Their flag will be some old ass flag for the first rebels, but only the flag of some rebel division.
anyone who puts up this flag is basically saying "i am unhappy with the government!"
They are usually dumb rednecks.
the liberals overreacted when they started pulling it from games an tv stuff.
To me, it symbolizes stupidity. It is an excellent indicator of who I shouldn't bother attempting to converse with. Anyone that seriously puts up this flag proudly is a moron and loser who wants to blame the man and gubberment for his own failings. Might also be racist.
Its a flag that represents a failed rebellion. It's not even a slavery issue for me, its just the fact that the Confederate States were basically traitors to the United States, which is why I don't think it should be flown on state grounds. It's like if I walked around Seattle wearing a "Seattle Seakhawks 2015 Superbowl Champions" shirt or something.
>>54974958 This. I don't give a flying fuck if you want to fly it personally, but it makes absolutely zero sense to have it over government buildings operated under the government of the very nation they tried to separate themselves from.
>>54973124 Just arguing semantics? You're conflating rights like freedom of expression with the powers delegated and reserved to the states themselves. No where in the Constitution or state constitutions is freedom of expression guaranteed for the state. It is always framed in terms of individuals.
It's hanging on my wall and it stands for white people not wanting to have jewish influence (union owned banks in New York owned the plantations and facilitated the slave trade, not the 75% germanic southerners who were farmers.)
Even if the carriers didn't know it, that flag directly opposed consolidated jewish control of germanics by the lincolnites and their nigger/traitor army.
>>54953796 The "Battle Flag" had no official ties or connection to the Confederate States of America. The only reasons anyone flies it is either due to ignorance to history or to be an be edgelord and piss people off.
Anyone who actually gave an honest shit about "mah history" would fly one of the national flags of the CSA. (such as pic related)
>>54976393 Any Southerner who thinks that is an idiot. Regardless of one's opinion on Lincoln during wartime, he wouldn't have botched the fuck out of reconstruction and ensured the South remained busted as hell in some capacity even to modern times
Oh fuck off. Everything in this camp is a Hallmark card for CSA apologists who don't realize it was a fuckstupid war to get into in the first place. You can't rely solely on your officer corp when the enemy has way more troops and industry than you and expect to win. Not to mention anti-Confederate guerilla movements in like every Confederate state and large desertion rates as the war went on
>>54978203 I'm from Mississippi. I know what it's about. The majority of people who worship the confederacy and push this romanticism about this classical idea of Southern culture in my experience are low totem pole sister fuckers who have nothing more important than to live off the bravery of their ancestors because they've never done anything more brave than go to the county line to buy booze despite living in a dry county.
>>54978130 >Mississippian here. to me it symbolizes cranky-ass rednecks who have nothing better to do than to worship a flag.
Please hang yourself tonight.
I have a better conception of Southern history than you do.
This is sad, because I am a yankee.
Learn something about your cultural heritage before spouting off like an anonymoose SJW. Your heritage is rich and deep. Stop falling for the MSM, Hollywood propaganda that characterizes all of you as red neck rubes.
>>54953796 To me it symbolizes the strength, and fighting will of the Scots-Irish. Their pride was destroyed in that war, and it has never returned. Slavery was wrong, but the culture and the historical importance of the south was destroyed. Now it's just a novelty
>>54978486 Sure, the flag has a more rich historical background. Hence why I said it belongs in a museum. But it's modern interpretation is a joke. I should know, I have redneck neighbors who hang confederate flags off their front porch.
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