The time has come to have meaningful discussion about splitting the USA in half.
The left/right paradigm will never again find common ground, the sides are too polarized. Countries exist for a reason, and that reason is because the people in country A do not believe in or follow the same principles as country B. “Melting pot” societies do not work and will always result in conflict.
If something is not done this country WILL face another civil war, and it will be far more bloody than the first one. Everyone reading this thread will see it. The government will collapse, the military will fracture, and the USA will quite literally tear itself apart.
So, let's discuss an equitable divorce. I'm a right leaning libertarian. I volunteer my half to take all the bible thumpers, all the scary guns, all the evil rich people and their big businesses. You on the left can have the whole LGBT crowd and the “oppressed minorities”, you can tax to your hearts content, you can socialize anything you wish and protect all the birds, bees, and trees you can find.
Let's not argue about who is better, who get's more federal aid, who the military would support, what happened in 1865 – blah blah blah. It's all irrelevant. We're going to peacefully split this nation and go our separate ways.
Pointless. Just abolish the federal government and allow the states to become full red or full blue if they choose. Coalitions can be made if war becomes necessary if ratified by 2/3rds of the states, otherwise each state is sovereign
>>44072611 State's would have the option of adopting a currency system of their own or joining a coalition with other states where certain rules are enforced. Look at the US now, in some places the minimum wage is up to $15. If I worked there for a couple of years and then moved back to where I currently live I'd multiply my yearly pay by 1.5. It doesn't make any sense to allow things like this when everyone is forced to participate but if it was optional I would choose a state with its own currency that is very far right-wing. For the most part, people wouldn't have to move around that much since most states have a majority voting population. Splitting things in half would just be silly when there are better ways to handle the left-right divide (which does need to be handled).
And to the second point, who cares? Let the faggot states get BTFO if they are failing and destroying themselves. Dividing the states along these lines would allow all liberal states to fail and be destroyed throughout the course of ~100 years eventually allowing for a hard right authoritarian single state which would be mapped similarly to the US. Gotta think long term
>>44072959 Yes, they are, the way things were intended. The only reason we had federal leadership was for wartime. We also had an anti-military bias for a very long time so we had no standing army, we expected that if war threatened us we were to quickly gather state militia members who were already trained in their respective state. The current federal government is completely abhorrent to the ideals of the founders and the whole entire thing is too corruptible and should be removed permanently.
>>44073009 We have our own dialect a distinctive cultural and values we are being oppressed by liberal new York Hollywood DC culture let us govern ourself y'all will no longer be "impeded" to the goal of "progression". Let Dixie have dixie!
>>44073280 Same guy you were talking too, just on the phone, read my first post. Nothing anywhere near as intrusive as the EU, more of an initial alliance between states and even that would be optional
>>44073519 Unfortunately the cultures are a bit too different, I would say SD should form a union of likeminded midwestern states. You all should be good so long as you don't get lumped in with shitholes like New York or Oregon/Washington/California/etc.
>>44073441 Unfortunately, in this day and age, Jefferson's vision wouldn't work. I don't think he predicted how fucking stupid some state's would become. California would be a drain on us economically no matter how little we include them in even the most neutered economic coalition and they would likewise be a gigantic drain on us in any kind of military coalition. The difference is, if California gets taken over by China, the rest of us are in trouble, but if California fails economically, and Texas and Arizona team up to "liberate" it, we'll fix both problems in one fell swoop
>>44073730 I really support the Idea of Cascadia, but it gets romanticized when in reality, a lot of Oregon and Washington are the most progressive areas in this country. Seattle, for example, has more gay pride events and more severe gun restrictions than anywhere outside maybe NYC.
I know the California liberals are moving north, but Washington is becoming the next big liberal cespool, following in NY and California's footsteps.
There is a huge argument over some very fine differences in policy. It's easier to see how the main parties tend to align in a parliamentary system, and it's easier for single issue or radical parties to influence politics. Right now you have to vote for a party that agrees with you on 80% of the issues, or one that agrees with you on 70% of the issues, where they both agree on at least 60% of the issues.
>>44073954 No, there are huge differences in world-view between your average liberal and your average conservative. This holds true for a lot of moderates and it holds true to the parties which are controlled by a globalist coalition ensuring that certain things will happen regardless of party.
>>44073929 No you obviously don't get it: You rely on others to maintain your independence.
A city of 20k which can provide for the needs of all of its citizens if better off than 4 cities of 5k each which need to constantly trade with each other to support themselves.
Independence implies you can depend on yourself. If you need to go running for help from some other city the moment you need something that's not the most general good possible, then you're not independent. Best case scenario, you replace all of the walmarts with a hoard of UPS drivers delivering your amazon packages.
>>44073825 It worries me too. My grandparents used to say that people came out West because they wanted to be left alone, and leave other people alone. And by and large, that seems to be true for a lot of folks who aren't in Seattle or Portland. The liberal problem is a hard problem because while I agree with them on some things, like protecting the environment of our land and supporting local businesses (see pic related), I disagree with them on a lot of other things, namely in their agenda to make thought crime a reality (like cracking down on people for following their religion). It's just frustrating to have outsiders trying to tell us to go one way or another.
Cascadia could work if we removed those outsider influences. Namely the Californian liberals who have fled their self-created wasteland and are now trying to spread it here from their hives in Seattle and Portland. Or as >>44073899 said, we could just dig a canal around the big cities and treat them like LA in Escape from LA.
>>44074053 Your average liberal and your average conservative are not the liberals and conservatives in power.
Your average liberal wants less corporate campaign donations, while liberals in power receive billions and are doing nothing to stop it. Your average conservative wants less government regulation of business, while conservatives in power are granting subsidies left and right and creating legislation to pick winners and losers.
Just because these guys debate on abortion doesn't mean they're so different. Their paychecks are being signed by the same people, after all.
>>44074181 Not true, because you aren't here and don't understand what you are talking about. If you are on a proxy and American you need to go outside more often. Liberals and Conservatives percieve the world in different ways, they are literally diametrichally opposed by their worldviews and it becomes internalized as well as externalized. Moderates simply don't pay attention to politics but they still fall along what would be simplified as a psychological spectrum that would be better suited to either extreme in 9 out of 10 cases.
Red: CSA (confederate states of america) capital Washington DC
Orange: Independant Texas
Green: New New Mexico there, now (with the exception of mexico) we all have a nice breadbasket plus fun shoreline areas. also we can all laugh at the south when it falls apart because of no more welfare from the north
>>44074158 I live in a town with a population of less than 3000 (Valentine Nebraska). Not only that, but I live on the outskirts with all of the other farmers, the least densely populated part of the town. You have no idea what its like lacking the infrastructure we do. You're the one used to city life. Your trucks are probably privately owned.
Oh, and even we have a McDonalds. And a subway, and some banks, etc. If you want a town without that, you'll need to move to one with <1000 people. Nearest town to us has a population of around 240. Their highschool is the same as their elementary school. Some grades even double up on classrooms there.
>>44073188 >The current federal government is completely abhorrent to the ideals of the founders and the whole entire thing is too corruptible and should be removed permanently. Exactly. We have become the polar opposite of the country the Founders envisioned.
>>44073810 Good idea anon I grew up in a town 30-40 miles south of Houston, used to be small back in the 90s and early 2000s. Now us and the surrounding area are being swallowed up by the city. Strip centers, big name stores and worst of all minorities, city folk and their liberal ways. It fucking sucks
What are you not understanding? I don't give a flying FUCK about lack of infrastructure. That's EXACTLY what I want you putz. The less infrastructure around the less government BULLSHIT I have to deal with and the more independent my family can be.
>>44073682 God, you guys are stupid. California is already an exporter of federal money, we already pay in much more than we pay out, and our debt to gdp is actually better than Texas, by a lot, at the moment, and has been since I started keeping track in 2012.
>>44074573 >I can be independent without infrastructure Then why aren't you living on a self sustainable farm? Why are you even on the internet? That's not independence. You don't create your own bandwidth independently
>>44074336 >also we can all laugh at the south There is no industry left in your Eastmerica, retard. The only welfare comes from the fed's printing press. The South would be better off than most of the rest of the nation if we could be rid of the parasitism of Jew York and the District of Criminals permanently.
>>44074861 You mean the texmexiforcation union. You'd literally be part of mexico within a few years, as none of those states have the resources to maintain border security, and all of them utilize migrant labor for things like fruit picking.
>>44073864 No, California is sub par at best. San Diego county and the far northern counties of California, and also the eastern Sierra Nevada are the only parts of California that are actually as great as people say
>>44074594 >but we would still have to deal with the debt first. Bullshit. Default. Fuck Wall St. and their parasitic paper shuffle. Hang all the employees of the fed for treason. Hang anyone who so much as lifts a finger in protest for treason. Create new commodity backed currency, preferably precious metals. Problem solved.
>>44074949 Go back to your original posts. You only used the pronoun "we." It was "we want this," or "we don't want that"
Now you're suddenly stressing the first person singular, since I pointed out you're not being independent. You collectivized your opinions to include others. That's not independence. At best, that's moving the goalposts
Divide the country into 3. California, Oregon, and Washington can form their own leftist dystopia. New York, New England, New Jersey and eastern part of Pennsylvania can form there own hell hole. The remaining states would form the third.
>>44075204 Republican lazy ass governor and obstructionist republicans in the house and senate, thanks to Reagan's law he signed when he was governor that required 2/3rds majority to change any aspect of the budget. We were running a fucking 25 year old budget, full of shit like, free water for nestle and unlimited water for farmer fags.
Within a year, that deficit was turned into a tepid surplus, amazing what having a functional government can do for a state after 30 years of not having one.
>>44075208 And half of that 10 million are mexicans Half of south california are mexicans Not even counting illegals, why do you think it would be impossible for mexico to annex these areas? There are more mexicans in them, than whites.
>>44075314 Arnold saved your asses, along with the federal government and the rest of America.
Again, I highly doubt you're doing much better. You barely have enough water, lol. Your economy sucks. A businessman from the Midwest can set up shop in California and move all work back to the Midwest and save millions.
>>44075375 Mexico sucks because their farms can't make any profits because California farms suck up all the water before it makes it to Mexico, and their trade agreements with the US makes it impossible for Mexican farmers to compete with American farmers, especially not close to the border.
If something like this happened, Mexico might want that water that originates in the rockies, and I almost doubt that those 3 states in a perilous agreement for self protection would be able to defend against it.
>>44075348 Confirmed for knowing nothing of the southwest
For one, of that area only about 1/4 is desert
The rest is forested mountains or grassland
Secondly. Mexicans are not a monolithic group like blacks. Half of them are practically indistinguishable from whites minus there last names. And as I said they come here mostly to be Americans and are fully assimilated by the 2nd gnberation
These states are culturally similar partly because of Mexican culture but also because of frontier culture, libertarianism, conservative values etc. etc.
Demographically 70% of that country would be white and 30% would be "Hispanic". Which means 15% beaners and 85% whites
>>44075472 >regular people >not customers Please tell me of this unheard of majority of people which don't buy anything from farmers or other businesses. I didn't know a majority of people grew all of their own food
>>44075472 Hopefully they'd gtfo of the state, because they're using space and water California can't afford to give and giving us nothing back but escaped illegal immigrant labor and "cheap" almonds no one wants so they're shipped to China, all because they're using water indiscriminately, because it's subsidized by the tax payers.
>>44075486 Arnold literally did dick. He presided over nothing, almost no bills passed, meanwhile he let the state almost bankrupt itself because he had the leadership capabilities of a spoiled child, throwing very public tantrums and sending coded correspondence to the state congress and senate telling them to fuck off and shit like that. The guy acted like a toddler in the office, when if he'd done well, he was almost assuredly going to be Republican Presidential nominee.
She grew up in a village of less than 200 people. I grew up in the country outside of a town of 15,000. The town has now doubled in size to 30,000 and enveloped the area I used to live.
So yes, we've lived the rural life and we both enjoyed it. We despise urban living. I don't give a flying shit where the nearest Walmart might be, we don't shop there anyways. We don't eat fast food. We don't need 99% of the shit this town offers and we don't want it anyways.
>>44075538 Only a small amount of hispanics can be counted as white And even they are southern european. If they want to be american, and are fully assimilated, then why are they such ardent democrat voters and illegal enablers? >frontier culture, libertarianism, conservative values It's 2015 Those haven't existed for decades.
My experience with Mexicans has been so-so. It's not the ones that come here, legally or illegally, that seem to be the problem. They generally do want a better life and are willing to work for it.
The problem is their OFFSPRING. They breed like fucking rabbits and their goddamn kids are all dumped in these liberal indoctrination centers, also known as "schools", where their cultured and brainwashed into the "I'm a minority oppressed victim" by the democrap teachers.
>>44075737 Le "I have nothing and thus you must go back to reddit post haste" post.
Good Jorb. I would think someone who wanted to have an honest discussion would at least give credit where credit is due and admit that Gov Brown is doing a kickass job keeping the liberals and moderates in line and getting California back on a good path, but you can't even do that.
>>44074928 >There is no industry left in your Eastmerica, retard. The only welfare comes from the fed's printing press. The South would be better off than most of the rest of the nation if we could be rid of the parasitism of Jew York and the District of Criminals permanently.
Then why is the south so dependent on the federal government? You know they get more than they pay in federal taxes, right?
Your main industry is disability insurance. The south would be knee-deep in its own shit within a decade.
>>44075654 She knows rural life. You don't. 15,000 is a significant infrastructure.
Also, rural american life is different than rural life in general. If she grew up in a village of 200, that's very different than growing up in a town of 200. Rural america has very low population density.
Its one thing when 200 people are living in a village close together. Its another thing when a town of 200 people is mass-production agrarian oriented. That's when everyone owns a huge farm and you need to drive for a mile or so just to ask your neighbor for a cup of sugar (which he may or may not have).
I'm just wondering what your basis for this idea is. The farm life isn't easy, and a lot more people choose to leave it than choose to join it.
>>44075862 You forgot that the south is totally dependent on federal military contracts, that's all the 'manufacturing' going on there, and it's the equivalent of digging holes and covering them back up, because the military doesn't even want most of the shit they're producing, big items like M-1 abrams are being stored at a loss because we can't even find anyone who'll buy them from us at a loss.
Every time there's one of these threads, someone pulls this bullshit argument. Why do they get more in taxes than they pay? A number of reasons.
1) Niggers who won't work. 2) Having to feed and house all the goddamn illegals because your beloved government won't let them secure their fucking borders 3) Defense contractors. Look how many are in the South. Of COURSE they get a shitton of federal money.
>>44076345 Well then that's because your use of the pronoun "we" was too vague. when you come onto a political forum like /pol/ and start throwing around the "we" word while expecting us to know specifically who you're talking about.
>>44076476 Poor Idaho, Nevada and Arizona... getting stuck with the left coast fuck-ups. It's like in elementary school when the teacher would put you with the fat ugly bitches and spergy cucks for group activities.
>>44075817 Half the south will be Latino or black in a few decades. The white populations are degenerate sociopaths and viscous, infinity arrogant psychopaths with double digit IQs.
The Northeast is one of the most economically prosperous regions in the country. It has the best living standards, the highest average IQs, and is swimming in tech companies. I think the Northeast should merge with Canada and some of the more left-leaning states of the Midwest and Washington state/Oregon.
Once we consolidate our power we should move to invade California and exterminate it's selfish, narcissistic population and claim the land and resources as living space for our glorious nation.
Next we should firebomb the south east to finish off these retarded degenerate sociopaths and claim it's resources for our own.
We will leave the southwest alone, because they are breddy cool guize.
I imagine by doing this that we will raise the IQ average of this country by at least 5-6 points.
They didn't want to- Katrina was a once in a life time opportunity to conduct a sociological experiment for a perfect disaster scenario just to see what would happen. Those racially challenged individuals had more than enough time to evacuate it was the future they chose. They waited to assist until the time was right and they had their measurements.
Southwestern Confederate state when? AZ+NM+TX for glorious cowboy confederacy please
On a more serious note an actual confederate state (In the sense of confederacy, not as some backwards-ass dixie thing) would probably appeal to the antifederalists pretty well. Leftists might as well go Northwest and form their own shitty socialist republic, not my problem.
We're honestly not half-bad as a state - Some really shitty gvt. but hey that's USA for you more often than not
Arizona is gonna be a decider in the future of America seeing as it represents a bastion of anti-federalism and radical southwestern culture: We only became a state in 1912 after they tried for so fucking long to get the jew-claw of the US government on us.
>>44077211 Im in favor of this provided there is an economic and military union among the divided states/nations. Thats is our strength, our economy, and as long as we can keep the productive regions we can still maintain market superiority.
>>44077192 Well half of LA is conservative. And Nevada would be too if we could break the Cassino unions like Wisconsin
The Bay Area only has about 10-12 million people . I think the closeted conservatives in California and Vegas would be emboldend if az bros started filling here political landscape because as bros dot give a fuck about what people think
They're trying to divide us. Started with info gathering (why is your state the best?) then trying to manipulate states against each other (what's the worst state or something) now this.
Not going to work. The states are united amongst themselves more than any with the federal government.
I think it's because of the convention of states organizing to supersede the federal government with constitutional amendments. They're at 27 of the required 34 to call the convention last time I checked. 3/4 vote required to amend the constitution. Main target is runaway federal spending. conventionofstates.com
>>44077012 >What on earth am I looking at? Why the f35 money pit is the most ,over budget, shitty designed, failure of a project on the entire fucking planet and why it can't be shut down no matter how much of a failure it is. They did this on purpose.
>>44073810 Growing up in a southern small town vs. living in a large city as I do today, I honestly see a lot more mom and pop shops here than I ever did in small town Dixie. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of things I miss about home and rural/small towns, but it's absolutely Walmart country. The big box stores killed a lot of the local culture.
Please support this website by donating Bitcoins to 16mKtbZiwW52BLkibtCr8jUg2KVUMTxVQ5 If a post contains copyrighted or illegal content, please click on that post's [Report] button and fill out a post removal request
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows an archive of their content. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.