>>33012480 the people have already decided and you're wrong. 90% of people on even this board disagree with you, but you still cling to the 10% that can't post anywhere else on the internet because, I dunno, I guess you're just a fucking retard.
>>33016178 They portray Poland as warmongering. They point out early plans of Poland regarding military action against Germany. They fail to mention though that this is because the Polish government began to identify Germany as more of a threat. It also fails to acknowledge the fact that the Polish simply couldn't beat the Germans, and were well aware of this. Some parts of the film were decent though, they show hitler as having great personal character.
>>33016920 The same old "he fun do nuffin." At the end of the day Poland would not provoke a country that it knew was far stronger than it. Germany invaded Poland, Poland did not invade Germany. Those are the facts amigo.
>>33017362 >Poland did not invade Germany. Oh did you think forcing hundreds of thousands of refugees across your border wasn't an invasion? Ok yeah, Germany should just ignore that, and especially not ask for a corridor to a city that belonged to German for hundreds of years, and was populated overwhelmingly by Germans.
And Hitler had no choice but to act. Not only that, after he defeated Poland, he offered to return back to the status quo, return Poland's sovereignty, and simply create the corridor to Danzig that he was originally asked for. And again, he was turned down.
So tell us, what should have happened? Please tell us.
It's propaganda and bullshit, nothing more. Very well done propaganda, I enjoyed watching it, but propaganda all the same.
For instance, it claim that Germany invaded Poland to stop the Polish massacre of ethnic germans, but it provides no citation for this. All it does is show pictures of Germans killed in the Bromberg massacre, which occurred two days AFTER the german invasion. The german invasion of Poland was unprovoked, there were no large scale massacres of 50 thousand germans, or whatever bullshit number they came up with.
>>33018000 >Oh the abject horror. Germany didn't want to go along with the rules of international relations and the Versailles Treaty that destroyed the entire country. That's fine. If you want to opt-out of the system, power to you.
But you don't get to whinge when the system then slaps your shit. If you want Poland to stop murdering Polish citizens, ask them. If they say no, take it to the League of Nations. If the League won't listen because you've pissed them off by being an obstinate uncompromising aggressive fuck then that sounds like you made the bed you're lying in.
>>33018061 >Stop making up shit to try and justify invasion. I haven't made up a single thing. Of course it was justified, and you still haven't come up with a single solution that would have prevented further violence, which was instigated by Poland.
>>33018226 >Citation for this? Oh please. Germany wasn't playing nice in Europe and everybody knows it. People TRIED to play nice with Germany over and over again at almost any cost - "peace in our time" - but Germany did its very best to spit in their faces.
>the governments of France, the United Kingdom and Czechoslovakia were set on avoiding war at any cost. >Chamberlain believed that Sudeten German grievances were justified and that Hitler's intentions were limited >the British government demanded that Beneš request a mediator. Not wishing to sever his government's ties with Western Europe, Beneš reluctantly accepted. The British appointed Lord Runciman and instructed him to persuade Beneš to agree to a plan acceptable to the Sudeten Germans. >On 2 September, Beneš submitted the Fourth Plan, granting nearly all the demands of the Karlsbader Programm. Intent on obstructing conciliation, however, the SdP held demonstrations that provoked police action in Ostrava on 7 September. The Sudeten Germans broke off negotiations on 13 September, after which violence and disruption ensued. As Czechoslovak troops attempted to restore order, Henlein flew to Germany, and on 15 September issued a proclamation demanding the takeover of the Sudetenland by Germany. >On the same day, Hitler met with Chamberlain and demanded the swift takeover of the Sudetenland by the Third Reich under threat of war. >Chamberlain referred the demand to the British and French governments; both accepted. >On 21 September, Czechoslovakia capitulated. The next day, however, Hitler added new demands, insisting that the claims of Poland and Hungary also be satisfied.
>>33018227 And the solution was what exactly? The historically German city of Danzig was put under the administration of the League of Nations as a so-called "free city." Yet it was not allowed to hold a referendum on whether or not its citizens wanted to rejoin Germany. All negotiations for a corridor were refused, after Poland cut off supply routes for the city.
Just who was provoking whom here? What was Hitler supposed to do?
>>33018597 The solution isn't the question here, the matter at hand is that Germany used the mistreatment of Germans in a city founded by Poland as an excuse to invade Poland. Unfortunately it was a piss poor excuse since Poland didn't make any act of war.
>>33018668 >Poland didn't make any act of war. Cutting off supplies, causing economic impoverishment, suppressing political power of citizens, doing nothing to prevent ethnic cleansing, and creating thousands of refugees in a city that had been historically part of Germany for hundreds of years is actually an act of war.
What do you think the reason was for Poland to refuse to negotiate?
It's just more of 'muh massacre of ethnic germans' when there is no evidence of that ever having taken place. The only Polish massacre of Germans that there is any evidence of is the Bromberg massacre, which occurred two days after the german invasion.
>>33019244 He'll say "the Czech *people* voted to join Germany" and who knows, maybe some of them did. The Sudentanland Germans would have. But it's irrelevant.
The opinion of the Czech people doesn't matter. It's domestic politics, not international relations. All that matters is what the sovereign of the country says and does. Everything else is fluff - at least until you reach R2P doctrine, which comes out in like 2002.
I mean Hitler actions towards C. Slovakia proves what a little piece of shit he was. Let's say Sudeten Germans really were persecuted and wanted to join Germany. Fine, Hitler and the British signed the Munich Agreement where Hitler would keep his gains on the condition that he no longer invaded other countries. What did Hitler do next? Invade the rest of C. Slovakia.
Fuck that shit. Britain and France rightfully declared war on Germany after they invaded Poland.
>Had the British war clique not continually urged Poland into an obstinate resistance towards the Reich, and had it not been for Britain's promises, of which she felt perfectly sure, it is very doubtful whether Poland would ever have allowed things to go so far, as to make the signal for the removal of Germans in the eyes of Polish military and civilians equivalent to a signal for the murder and bestial butchery of German people.
>The terrific losses caused to German interests in Poland during the Polish domination can be given in figures under the heading of emigration, expropriation, closing of German schools, as follows: up to the middle of 1939, 1.4 million Germans under the pressure of Polish officials had emigrated from Posen-West Prussia and from Upper Silesia. German settlers had lost 1,263,288 acres of land and of these 265,288 acres due to the one-sided Agrarian Reforms unilaterally applied against Germans, 998,000 acres due to cancellation and liquidation. Of the 657 public German minority schools in existence in 1925 (in 1927 only 498), only 185 were left at the beginning of the school year 1938/1939 (of these 150 in Posen-West Prussia and 35 in Upper Silesia).
>Germans were attacked in the open country, in their homes and on their farms. From May 1939 onwards prohibition orders and punishments literally hailed down upon them. The closing down of schools, kindergartens, libraries and German clubs, the elimination of cooperatives, cultural and charitable societies, and the personal threat to each individual, increased to an unimaginable degree, quite contrary to the rights of the German minority as guaranteed by the Constitution.
>During the last days of August 1939, Germans were openly menaced in villages with the expressions: "Slaughter them off".
>>33019636 >read books How about you rely on actual historical documents, instead of reading books written and approved by Jews. You will never find a more biased source against Hitler's Germany than a Jew.
>How about you rely on actual historical documents
And why do you believe the books do not rely on historical documents? That's what good books do you know, they take primary sources (along with some secondary ones) and draw conclusions from them. Secondly, it's unrealistic to ask the average Joe to rely solely on historical documents when we do not have access to the vast majority of them. I recall David Irving having to travel to different countries and researching these historical documents for a decade or so just to write one of his books.
>instead of reading books written and approved by Jews.
>>33019861 >Yeah but any source that doesn't conform to your beliefs will be labeled as Jewish. Like what source? Name a source. Jewish testimony? Speculation based on that testimony? Is that what you're going to cite?
When waves of German Poles came over the eastern German border in the mid 1930s they were telling very consistent stories of being forced out of their homes and some being killed on the spot. Hitler already believed Danzig and the Polish Corridor were rightful German territory, as they were, because it was land ripped from Germany's hands by Versailles, splitting the country into two. Germans still lived there, and in places they were the majority ethnic group, yet groups of either angry civilians or rebels were killing Germans. Hitler felt he had a duty to protect the German people, being a man led by his emotions, so he prepared to invade Poland.
>>33020078 http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v18/v18n1p15_Faurisson.html >Thus came about not so much a plan being carried out, but an incredible meeting of minds, a consensus -- mind reading by a far-flung bureaucracy.
>In the final analysis, the destruction of the Jews was not so much a product of laws and commands as it was a matter of spirit, of shared comprehension, of consonance and synchronization.
- Raul Hilberg
Mind reading. Without a blueprint. Without a basic plan.
He also mentioned "written directives not published," "oral directives and authorizations," and "basic understandings of officials resulting in decisions not requiring orders or explanations."
So no actual documents. Just mind reading. And oral directives based on no plan, with no supporting documentary evidence.
>But what began in 1941 was a process of destruction not planned in advance, not organized centrally by any agency. There was no blueprint and there was no budget for destructive measures.
Yes, this is exactly Hilberg's position. What Faurisson is alluding to is the debate between Functionalism and Intentionalism, where Hilberg believes the Holocaust to be due to the former. Intentionalists argue there was such a plan, while functionalists argue there was not.
"Mind-reading" isn't meant to be taken literally you dolt.
>So no actual documents. >over 1400 pages in 3 volumes didn't rely on documents
This is what this anon seriously believes... someone who hasn't even read the book or have a copy of it is telling me what the author did or did not use. Sure ok.
If Hitler had played nicely after the Sudetenland was allowed to return to Germany you'd likely have Danzig allowed to vote to rejoin Germany as well, this done to keep the Germans on side for for a possible war against the Soviet Union.
Nigger I watched the first 15 minutes of that shit, do you mean the part where he talks about Lenin and claims Bolshevism killed 100 million people (KEK)? WHat does that have to do with Bolsheviks killing Germans in Poland before Bolsheviks even existed in Poland?
On the eve of the February Revolution, in 1917, the Bolshevik party had about 23,000 members, of whom 364 were known to be ethnic Jews. According to the 1922 party census, there were 19,564 Jewish Bolsheviks, comprising 5.21% of the total. Jews made up 7.1% of members who had joined before October 1917. Among members of the Central Executive Committee of the Congress of Soviets in 1929, there were 402 ethnic Russians, 95 Ukrainians, 55 Jews, 26 Latvians, 13 Poles, and 12 Germans – Jewish representation had declined from 60 members in 1927. In the 1920s, of the 417 members of the Central Executive Committee, the party Central Committee, the Presidium of the Executive of the Soviets of the USSR and the Russian Republic, the People's Commissars, 6% were ethnic Jews.
>>33020350 >jellies >When they depleted their reserves
Hitler ran through Germany's gold and banking reserves to nothing. From 900 million riechsmark to only 100 million riechsmark.
Major spikes in a lot of consumer products were common and by 1935 there were shortages of a lot of products.
Hitler never eliminated unemployment from it's previous levels, he only halved the work force by removing women, jews, leftist, and any non-germans, and in affect never made those same people employed, then the army drafted 4 million young men to fight and die making them no longer unemployed
td:lr hitler had never made those unemployed employed and the private sector never actually grew while in fact there were a lot of shortages and the like
“Germany’s unforgivable crime before the second world war was her attempt to extricate her economic power from the world’s trading system and to create her own exchange mechanism which would deny world finance its opportunity to profit.” - Churchill to Lord Robert Boothby, as quoted in: Sidney Rogerson, Propaganda in the Next War (Foreword to the second edition 2001), originally published in 1938.
>>33020946 >Well maybe the Allies should have played nicely after WWI then. Maybe Germany should have waited until that thirst for "vengeance" was gon and then petitioned the cooler heads at the League of Nations and not just started building guns.
And then it was FORGIVEN for doing this, and continued to fuck around afterwards.
>>33021077 >>33020992 "We were not foolish enough to try to make a currency coverage of gold of which we had none, but for every mark that was issued we required the equivalent of a mark’s worth of work done or goods produced. We laugh at the time our national financiers held the view that the value of a currency is regulated by the gold and securities lying in the vaults of a state bank." ~ Adolf Hitler, 1937 (CC Veith, Citadels of Chaos, Meador, 1949.)
"Judaism and Communism are one and the same." ~ HILARY COTTER, author of Cardinal Minszenty, The Truth About His Real "Crime," page 6
"Communism is Judaism. The Jewish Bolshevik Revolution was in 1917 Russia." ~ H.H. BEAMISH, N.Y. speech, 1937 ("The Secret Force" by Maurice Pinay)
“The Jew is an inborn communist” Otto Weininger, a Jew, Sex & Character, pp 311
“Some call it Marxism (Communism), I call it Judaism.” – Rabbi Stephen Samuel Wise - The American Bulletin, May 5, 1935. (Judaism is nothing but disguised, camouflaged Communism, therefore, Zionism is nothing but Communism)
“Communism was Jewish proposed, Jewish financed, Jewish led and Jewish operated. The most muderous regime this planet has ever known, was Jewish through & through.” ~ ("The Secret Force" by Maurice Pinay)
"Judaism gave birth to Marxism", "Marxism will rule the world", "Jews have a right to subordinate to themselves the rest of mankind and to be the masters over the whole earth. Now, indeed, this is the historic destiny of the Jews", "Judaism is communism", and "Jews will conquer the world and the human race." ~ Dr. Harry Waton, the American Jewish Marxist and Kabbalist
"The Communists (jews) are against religion (Christianity), and they seek to destroy religion; yet, when we look deeper into the nature of Communism, we see that it is essentially nothing else than a religion (Judaism)." (A Program for the Jews and Humanity, Rabbi Harry Waton, p. 138)
>>33017362 >At the end of the day Poland would not provoke a country that it knew was far stronger than it
Uh, they had an alliance with both France and England. That is precisely why they felt safe provoking Germany. Are you seriously trying to deny the German pogrom in Poland that started the war? Are you retarded?
>The draining of Germany's gold and foreign exchange reserves inhibited the acquisition of materiel, and the Nazi economy, focused on militarisation, could not afford to deplete the means to procure foreign machinery and parts. Nonetheless, towards the end of the 1930s, Germany's foreign reserves were unsustainably low. By 1939, Germany had defaulted upon its foreign loans and most of its trade relied upon command economy barter. >The draining of Germany's gold and foreign exchange reserves
Gee, I wonder who drained Germany's gold reserves...
>>33021518 What the ever living fuck are you talking about? You're talking about Weimar Germany now? And gold during World War 2? And that somehow proves that Hitler's economic miracle was simply selling gold that he didn't have?
>>33021562 Are you seriously retarded? There was no indefinite occupation. Germany offered peace before they even took Poland, just after they took the chunk the German people were living in back. Poland's refusal is Poland's problem.
>>33022310 >I am the one saying and making shit up? Yes, you literally just invented a story, that Hitler probably lied, to explain away the fact that Hitler had no gold at his disposal to improve the economy of Germany in 1933.
Tooze spends like 3 chapters just talking about Germany's gold and foreign reserves. Long story short, Weimar Republic adds to Germany's gold reserves, Hitler comes to power and blows it all the fuck away in a few years on rearmament.
>>33022513 Yeah hitler supporters are really in a personality cult like followers of the Kim Jong dynasty/family. They perception is completely distorted by propaganda and they believe that his is an infallible man with infallible plans, they believe each and every policy was infallible and nothing could be wrong with it in the slightest and anyone who says otherwise is working in a global commission of paid shillery and working for a secret society
>>33022473 No, they did not have gold. You haven't provided a single reference for that statement either. I have provided actual statements from Hitler himself that said they had no gold. Furthermore, they based their currency not on gold, but on German labor. Therefore, selling gold reserves, of which there were none, had no effect at all on the economic improvement, which you tried to originally suggest was nonexistent, yet now you appear to concede that there was improvement.
>>33022811 I can't find anything about Tooze and pre-1939 Germany's gold reserves online. Nobody seems to talk about it online. Are you talking about Nazi Gold after WW2? Or do you have some online articles or anything about Tooze and gold? I can't find anything.
>>33023031 His book is not online, but here is the torrent link: http://kickass.to/the-wages-of-destruction-the-making-and-breaking-of-the-nazi-economy-darkside-rg-laotzu-t3135535.html
here are another couple from him on that subject: http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/40186123?uid=3739800&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21104397064337 and a good book on this subject too: https://archive.org/stream/economicblockade012328mbp#page/n45/mode/2up
>>33023198 >Translate it gai boi. Really? So to prove my point in an English argument, I'm allowed to refer you to a Chinese historian where navigating through the literature requires an understanding of Mandarin?
>>33023198 The Katyn Massacre, also known as the Katyn Forest Massacre (Polish: zbrodnia katy?ska, 'Katy? crime'), was a mass murder of thousands Polish military officers, policemen, intellectuals and civilian prisoners of war by Soviet NKVD, based on a proposal from Lavrentiy Beria to execute all members the Polish Officer Corps dated March 5, 1940. This official document was then approved (signed) by the entire Soviet Politburo including Stalin and Beria. The number of victims is estimated at about 22,000, with the most commonly cited number of 21.768. http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
Lavrentiy Pavlovich Beria (Georgian) Lots of sources describe him as a Jew, and state, he was talking Yiddish with Stalin's children. He also looks like a typical Jew. http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Lavrentiy_Beria
Do you realize what a stupid position that is? Confirmation bias at its finest.
>Beria was born in Merkheuli, near Sukhumi, in the Sukhumi district of Kutaisi Governorate (now Gulripshi District, Abkhazia, then part of the Russian Empire). He was a member of the Mingrelian ethnic group and grew up in a Georgian Orthodox family.
Please support this website by donating Bitcoins to 16mKtbZiwW52BLkibtCr8jUg2KVUMTxVQ5 If a post contains copyrighted or illegal content, please click on that post's [Report] button and fill out a post removal request
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows an archive of their content. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.