Why do libertarians hate america?

>>140572173The libertarians have been cucked every since (((Murray rothbard))) tried to form an partnership with the left in the 70's. I don't trust mainstream libertarians, they have this nihilism to them that is disgusting.

>>140572173
Libertarians see people as utility, a cog in the machine of the market. Society moulds around the will of the market. Its not a nationalistic or racist ideology.
All immigration is a net gain to the economy if you don't believe in a welfare state. Plus you don't get scum because all come to work.

>>140572173

ideology. The open boarders part of Libertarianism is the dumbest part that makes no sense. It only makes sense in a theoretical world wide utopia where no boarders exist so people can just go anywhere to get any job, which is how they image it. But in reality, you are just opening up the country to being flooded with third worlders for gibsmedats (which libertarians are against to be fair) and also ruining the job market. The ONLY ones who benefit from this are huge corporations, who get an endless supply of employees, whos wages and benefits they can undercut. Dont like it? tough shit, there a million other people who are willing to work your job for less money.

I say this as a libertarian

>>140572638
it seems like they don't believe in the idea of a nation state.

>>140572173
Libertarians are mega retards like those who claim to be sovereign citizens.

>>140572173
Because they are basically nothing more than low tax liberals.
Their neurotype basically doesn't seem to go along with group/tribal identity and is pretty autistic so it would make sense.

Ask them why open borders is a good Idea for socialist countries and socilaist people to invade

>>140572173
Founding father tier libertarian-ism is pretty ight though

>>140573220
Founding farther tier... What the open borders kind?

>>140572898
Many dont

Many considet the nation state just some abstract system based on geographic location and open to anyone and everyone.

At this point those still in libertarian circles are leftist libertarians who want open boarders and pride parades everywhere.

I used to be into it but couldnt get passed open boarders. Now I want a new hitler

>>140572954
Open borders in a socialist country is different to open borders in a libertarian/ capitalist society

>>140572173
Who the fuck loves America? Cancer shithole that should be exterminated

>>140573548
Libertarianism to fascism in one leap. You sound like a retarded reactionary.

>>140573393
Open borders for Germanics and WASPs doesn't sound really scary, right?

>>140573393

The founding fathers weren't open borders.

>>140572173
This dumb cunt deserves to be shot!

>>140573738
>The founding fathers weren't open borders.
The founders were federalist not libertarians.

>>140573738
They were all immigrants, they also owned black people. What kind of argument is the founding fathers said so? You don't take medical advice from 300 year old doctors do you?

>>140573588
this

(((Reason)))

>>140574087
This is irrelevant but that ID looks really nice with your flag.

Plus you are the Raj? Your ID says so.

>>140573588
>Who the fuck loves America? Cancer shithole that should be exterminated
Fuck off cunt!

>>140572173
>(((American citizens))) benefit when people, any color but white, come here work here and live here.

Idiots like this are why I gave up on libertarianism. The only solution is the far right and the construction of an ethnostate. You can not separate culture and biology and if we want western culture we need white people.

>>140574056

So in other words, you're admitting that they weren't for open borders?

>(((Reason)))
libertarians are just humanist shits

>>140573972
Limited government doesn't mean decentralised or weak government?

>>140574308
No? Just mentioning that It doesn't really matter if they weren't.

Libertarianism is a evil ideology that takes people's humanity, culture, and all meaningful bonds that they share and subjugates them to economic concerns. People are not viewed as humans but as economic cogs, so anything beyond their economic value is considered irrelevant.

>He thinks all libertarians support open borders.

LaughingGirls.jpeg

>>140574342
>Limited government doesn't mean decentralized or weak government?
Federalism is decentralized government. The entire purpose of the federal government under Jeffersonian principles is to prevent bullshit open boarders and foreign entanglements. Read some more!

>>140574244
You can't separate culture and biology? Well this is scientifically unfounded nonsense.

>>140574676
Federalism is not decentralised government. It's the exact opposite.

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>writes some shitty articles for a newspaper I never heard of
>speaking for all Libertarians

>>140574820
>Federalism is not decentralised government. It's the exact opposite.
You are an idiot! READ MORE!

>>140573699
No its not. All it takes is for a libertarian to understand that the marxists will run their small government just like it is now.
They allready controll the movement and would sweep in to take the reigns if it got traction again.

>>140574712
It really isn't our culture is an emergent property that comes from our biology. You can import a bunch of niggers but they will never be compatible with white western civilization. You only have to go to any city in America to see the breakdown of white western culture when you import a bunch of non whites. The same can be said for whites in any other culture. I can no more be an Indian or Japanese. I could try to fit in but it would always be a larp.

>>140574887
In Europe it means decentralised. In USA it means centralised. Read more.

>>140572624
Rothbard was a paleoconservative ya dummy.
The Cato Institute, Koch Bros, and the LP are behind the cucking
Based Murray left the Cato Institute in protest and opposed the creation of the Libertarian Party
THIS is Rothbard's agenda. Tell me it's in line with the left.
https://archive.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/ir/Ch5.html

>>140574834
>libertarian
>mongrel
Pick two
>>140574238
Literally finances every pro-diversity anti-racist shit in Europe. EVERY SINGLE NATION, EVERY SINGLE TIME.

>>140572638
Without the welfare state you'd see almost zero immigration. Taxation is theft, but also shameful is the fact that illegals in my country (USA) have access to ANY fruits of the tax system at all. Illegals should have zero access to our schools and hospital.

Additionally, those advocating open borders are shills. Anybody who has read essays and books from Von Mises Institute people and not meme articles and blogposts online know that the majority are in favor of closed borders

>>140572173
>Muh economy

These people only ever look at the economy, they never explain how low skilled immigration will increase the standard of living for American citizens (it doesn't).

>>140575090
Doesnt have to be in line with the left. All that needs to be done is change the direction and/or stop the movement.
> hense present day

>>140574970
This is a silly argument. Blacks are still suffering from the shit that went down in living memory. It takes much longer than a generation for social mobility to occur.

Also why would you not want Asians? Do they lower the crime rate too much? Or do you not like that they earn more?

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>>140572173
>Why do libertarians hate america?
Omnipresent Marxist indoctrination, just like leftists.

It's about (((their))) globalist agenda. They want to run a prison planet of race-less, culture-less, nation-less, identity-less subdued sheep. They make up less than 1% of the world's population, yet look at all they control from the world's finances to the media that brainwashes us.

In short, they use the entertainment and news media to encourage globalism and discourage nationalism and traditional western values. They distort and lie about the present and past in that effort.

The truth about immigration, by the numbers:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE

Cultural Marxist Jews Admit Organizing White Genocide

The plan to eliminate the white race:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOgkGzMdieI

Cultural Marxism in action… Political Correctness, the tip of the blade:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6c_dinY3fM

Cultural Marxism & Social Justice explained:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnqIj8C2Aek

Why are we in decline - Cultural Marxism:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VggFao85vTs

The Jewish role in the refugee crisis:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfCOO7Z39j0

Leftist subversion explained by former KGB agent Yuri Bezmenov:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hWYgPDVX_8

also see

The facts about slavery in North America:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5tci36bNjg
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFHa4db3hA0
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A94smJ9QJ5g

Cultural Marxist Jews fund media propaganda against whites on an enormous scale:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvNNtBmA3SQ

The Jewish role in the porn industry:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwd_Iofr6ZQ

Does this sound familiar at all? (starting at 6:52)
>https://youtu.be/kPdxhLUKZYM?list=PLo0ThsDnveH5nv5TNviBrGTX9P6IrYfIe&t=412

The Holocaust:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPc899uUb-A
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgGP_evkvOk
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxpIsep4160

>>140574712
You know what else is scientifically unfounded nonsense? Human rights. Didn't stop me from beating nonwhites with my mates last weekend and torturing racemixed couple
https://youtube.com/watch?v=klkyfbnS0TA

>>140575310
Job creation? Job competition? Lower prices? Lower taxes?

>>140574834

Reason is THE libertarian newspaper you pleb

>>140575340

Shitpost like this should be a bannable offense

>>140575370
Stop larping on the Internet you fucking faggot

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>>140572173
Because /pol/ doesn't know anything about libertarianism other than strawmans and low hanging fruit like Aleppo.

Here is the actual libertarian position on immigration that is consistent with the ideology. Open borders are forced integration by the state.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5wZjdEl9F8

>>140575335
>Blacks are still suffering from the shit that went down in living memory. It takes much longer than a generation for social mobility to occur.

All the affirmative action in the world is not going to bring blacks to parity with whites. We are different creatures and should be left to our own devices. That is the same reason that while I respect Japs, and every other race, I don't want them in my countries. Whites won America by the divine right on conquest and to give that territory up because of Marxist propaganda is foolish.

>>140575340
Ah I spilled my coffee...

"well the frankfurt school"

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>this thread

>>140575005
>In Europe it means decentralised. In USA it means centralised. Read more.
https://home.isi.org/thomas-jeffersons-federalism-1774%E2%80%921825

>>140575554
No one is larping, slow shitskin. People in the "Eastern" Europe dedicate a lot of time to make the inferior infiltrators suffer.


Wooooooah......it's almost like if you kill subhumans just for not being White, they don't come

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-student-manpreet-kanhaiya-s-death-in-poland-a-mystery-1.3302681

>be non-white subhuman (((from Canada)))
>go to Poland
>die

nonwhite tries to talk to you in your native land? spit in his face and break his teeth

>>140575829

https://archive.is/rTn08

>>140575146
>Literally finances every pro-diversity anti-racist shit in Europe. EVERY SINGLE NATION, EVERY SINGLE TIME.
Oh, ok fag... LIke your shit hole doesn't promote Islam and savages... Fuck off dumb cunt!

>>140572173
That's a (((libertarian))). They used to occupy the edgy right and triggered shit libs. Now they just pander to them and are a strictly Jewish ideology. The movements dead because white men realized they need the power of the state to over come their enemies

>>140575990
That's the fact. America must be wiped out. Holocaust of Americans is loyalty to Europe

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>>140572173
>purple hair
>defends open borders

>>140575452
>Job creation?
Any job created by a low skilled immigrant will be outweighed (by far) by the jobs taken by low skilled immigrants. You will have a net loss of available jobs.
>Job competition?
This lowers wages for Americans.
>Lower prices?
Negligible given the relative downwards pressure on wages.
>Lower taxes?
As infrastructure falls under pressure I can't see taxes lowering much and it's not going to help those who no longer have a job or those who now earn less.

>>140575688
I doubt you even know what Marxism is? You blast it off like a buzzword as does everyone on pol. Whites won America by devine right? By that logic could we not say Muslims are moving in to take it by their devine right? When did I ask you to give up your territory? You moved most of the fucking blacks there yourselves? I didn't mention affirmative action. I'm just providing you with a more reasonable reason for social development disparity than "muh bell curve". It must be sad to be such a worthless human that your only sense of achievement comes from the achievements of others the same colour as you.

>>140575809
Did you read that? It's not agreeing with you? Just fucking wiki federalism? There's a fucking section dedicated to the difference between us and euro

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>>140576175
I was going to try to have a civil discussion with you but if you are going to pretend you don't understand how Marxist ideology has been poisoning the mind of White Europeans to make them feel guilty about who and what they are then their is no point. You are either a shill or hopelessly brainwashed.

On the off chance you are white, and English, you should give Jonathan Bowden a listen. He passed in 2012 but provided a clear voice on how the UK should move forward by moving to the right and reclaiming their white identity and patriotism. If you are a shitskin, don't bother, go back to your own country where you belong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhqyAroAk8k

>>140572173
>it is not morally better for a job to be here instead of china
>we produce exceptional people who won't work for such a low wage
This is amazing

>>140576159
Shouldn't the US citizens have out grown jobs at McDonald's? Why would schooled US citizens be doing low skilled jobs?

>>140572173
>why do liberarians hate America?

Because America has roads, Africa does not.

>>140572173
this was one of the dumbest people i've ever seen on a cable news show. i'm not even kidding

>>140576633
I'm white as fuck. I'm not ashamed of it. I find it uninteresting. I'm not working towards creating more racial tribalism. It's tedious.

>>140572173
>arguing solely from the economical standpoint
How fucked is this country? What do these "people" even think the government exists for?

>>140576703
>It's the "everyone is just like me" world view

You're as delusional as a liberal, there are PLENTY OF DUMB AMERICANS (niggers for one). There are plenty of Americans who are incapable of working anything other than low skilled jobs - think about those people before you import millions of low skilled workers.

>>140575335
>his is a silly argument. Blacks are still suffering from the shit that went down in living memory. It takes much longer than a generation for social mobility to occur.
>Also why would you not want Asians? Do they lower the crime rate too much? Or do you not like that they earn more?
Awe.... you fuckin pathetic excuse making fuck!

>>140572624

This is the opposite of right. Rothbard, Paul, Rockwell, and the rest of the old libertarian guard left the Libertarian Party in the Late 80s after the social liberals took over. Rothabard despised leftism.

>>140572173

IIRC Katherine "Mangu-Ward" was one of the toxic libertarians who denounced Ron Paul when he was running.

What a fucking cunt.

>>140572173
the public face of libertarianism is entirely controlled opposition. Ron Paul is probably the only exception.

>>140576633
Bnp tv. Wow the laughing stock of Britain. The left wing racists who say they are on the right? Even thought their policies are on the economic left?

>>140576958
what's the point of a country if you don't believe in race?

>>140577131

Sorry, forgot to air-quote "libertarian"

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these people are always such mutated genetic-garbage.

>>140576175
>I doubt you even know what Marxism is? You blast it off like a buzzword as does everyone on pol. Whites won America by devine right? By that logic could we not say Muslims are moving in to take it by their devine right? When did I ask you to give up your territory? You moved most of the fucking blacks there yourselves? I didn't mention affirmative action. I'm just providing you with a more reasonable reason for social development disparity than "muh bell curve". It must be sad to be such a worthless human that your only sense of achievement comes from the achievements of others the same colour as you.
Do you know what Marxism is?

>>140577003
Immigration rates go down when there is no welfare state? America was prosperous before with open boarders?

>>140576958
>I'm not working towards creating more racial tribalism. It's tedious.

Humanity will never escape what you so disparagingly call racial tribalism. The different groups of men can trade and live in peace as long as they remain separate. There are no examples of multi-cultural civilizations because it can't be done, we can not escape these biological differences. If you throw different people together you don't get cohesion you get violence and strife.

Keep selling out your fellow white man. The new majority in your country will gladly take power and expel you and murder your children because they are not a weak puppet like yourself.

>>140572173
I thought libertarians loved America.

>>140572638
Immigration is bad for the economy

>>140577136

Reason magazine, the LPN, and others on the beltway are definely controlled by the Kochtapus. Look off the beltway for the Old School libertarians who are hypertrationalist. Alot of the good ones are are at the Mises Institute. It was founded by Rothbard's protegees after all.

>>140577021
When did I make an excuse? Did I say it's okay? Did I say high level of black crime are okay? No. They should be arrested same as any other criminal.

What I am saying is there are a multitude of factors contributing to why the crime rate is high? If I was making excuses I would try to excuse their crime? Arresting them is not excusing their crime is it?

>>140576545
>Did you read that? It's not agreeing with you? Just fucking wiki federalism? There's a fucking section dedicated to the difference between us and euro
Federalism is an American invention, ass! It was a result of a a debate between Jefferson and Hamilton. Federalism means that the Federal government handles external factors and enforces interstate contracts. The main governing body is the states. You are an idiot!

>>140577182
Shared values. A regulated economy? Rule of law? Should I go on? You don't describe a country or state you describe a tribe of whites?

>>140577194
how is it air quoting if you're actually quoting it...

>>140577163
You have no clue who Bowden is do you? Give his lecture on Evola a listen. The man was a genius and died far to young. That being said he accurately foresaw what is occurring now. The left is in decay and the right now controls the counter culture. The next 50 years will be the rise of the right and return to tradition values or it will be the death of every white person on the planet. I don't think the white man is ready to die, despite the jewish propaganda telling him otherwise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YqKf3v2aPs

>>140577311

Before you were arguing for the benefits of low skilled immigration, now you seem to be arguing:
>but there wont be too much immigration
>and it didn't cause much of a problem in the past

Stop shifting the goalpost and admit you lost the argument, go away and rethink your worldview.

>>140577677
so should we just merge with any country that "shares our values"? the people within it are just interchangeable valuebots afterall...

>>140577565
>When did I make an excuse? Did I say it's okay? Did I say high level of black crime are okay? No. They should be arrested same as any other criminal.
>What I am saying is there are a multitude of factors contributing to why the crime rate is high? If I was making excuses I would try to excuse their crime? Arresting them is not excusing their crime is it?
You responded to the wrong person fag, but since I am commenting, you contradict yourself. You say you did not make an excuse, but then make an excuse! It is free to not commit crimes! Fuck off! Do the crime, get the hammer!

>>140577306
You want me to go into the Super structures? Or what? You want the dictionary definition? Or are you talking about the computing forever "CULTURAL MARXISM"

>>140578034
>You want me to go into the Super structures? Or what? You want the dictionary definition? Or are you talking about the computing forever "CULTURAL MARXISM"
Fuck off drunk, you keep responding to the wrong people!

>>140577965
Where is the excuse. I provide a explanation. An excuse would excuse them of punishment.

>>140572173

Women can't be libertarian.

>>140572173
(((left libertarians))) are not libertarians. They are socialists that don't like policing. This is evidenced by this """"""""libertarian"""""""" supporting a socialist program that gives some people free schooling and welfare just because their parents dropped them off here illegally.

>>140578328
pretty much yea. Women don't really have any business having political views.

>>140578453
I swear this is such a safe space for retards.

>>140572173
American libertarians have been infested by SJWs. Libertarian feminists aka libertarian collectivists are rife on twatter. Or the absolute worst libertarian socialists (give me a fucking break)

They don't even care about individual freedom if it hurts their collectivist ideal and then when you challenge them on it, they'll BS about their libertarian right to organize; yeah organize in such a way to blot out the individual.

Finally, non-statists (anarchists) should shut the fuck up in regards to state policy. We already know what you think.

>>140572638
There won't be immigration from third world shitholes if there is no welfare, no socialized healthcare, no socialized education, etc. Only the highest IQ individuals from other countries (mostly European but some Chinese and Indians) will immigrate here and help our economy. That is why we should cut all welfare and go to merit based immigration system.

>she

>>140578616
You are a women

>>140577747
Not a libertarian. For one. We are all talking about ideas. You made several claims about what would happen under a libertarian interpretation of open borders. I am a simply asking why the claims were unfounded in the past and the difference today?

>>140578536
>safe space
not really. you just called me out and I didn't REE to the mods

>>140572173
Where are the libertarians saying the state shouldn't help immigrants at all and should let them die crossing the border.

>>140578928
True more of an echo chamber. But still a safe space in practice

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>>140572173
i cringed
those people are unaware of what they´re saying, they are just repeating talking points without thinking, even milton friedman spoke about the dangers of illegal immigration and the welfare state
the libertarian movement may have been hijacked or it´s just full of buffoons

I love that libertarians are now getting exposed for the freaks that they are. Imagine seeing your country as a giant business rock.

>>140572624
Many libertarians are crypto-communists. I know it sounds crazy but I am one.

>>140579347
You mean a defined state, in which basic infrastructure and enforcement of contracts are carried out by the state. In which individuals can trade freely between one another.

I'm sure it's already been covered, but libertarianism is the ideal society if everyone agrees to it. Not democracy, but individual responsibility. The problem is the masses do not respect individual rights. And punishment for infringement of individual rights must be swift and severe. Give an inch and they'll take a mile. That's how every society breaks down.

>>140578787
We aren't talking about the past anon, America was a very different place and there could be a variety reasons why things worked differently back then - a massive demand for manual labour for one (which we don't have today).

We are talking about how low skilled immigration effects Americans TODAY.
I've made my arguments, you seem unable to refute those arguments and have resorted to shifting the goalposts.

>>140572173

I live in california please nuke us before it spreads.

>>140579658
What has this to do with my post?

>>140572173
>rando lefty on carson
>LOL LIBERTARIANS

really?

>>140579688
You forgot to mention we were taking in protestant europeans. Even Irishmen were controversial back then.

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>>140579658
>And punishment for infringement of individual rights must be swift and severe.

exactly, anyone violating the NAP should be legally shot to deter aggression.

>>140579688
I don't disagree with your arguments is why. Because I believe we need some form of welfare state and regulated immigration levels. I'm not shifting goal posts just trying to extract more detail

>>140579774
meant for>>140579565

>>140575664
Can't be building third parties no no no...

>>140579857
What counts as aggression?

>>140575664
Mises Institute are were all the actual Libertarians exist, as we wage a culture war against the Forward and those cucks.

>>140579931
initiation of violence, theft.

>brings a liberal and a libertarian
>they both look exactly the same
Tucker is playing 10d backgammon

>>140572173
Libertarians buy into the idea that unrestricted capitalism would inevitably lift everyone up. They ignore the criticisms that this can lead to people in first world countries having their standard of living lowered, which leads to these inanities of theirs.

>>140572173
Finally, it's obvious libertarians care about the raw market, their lives and everyone else is controlled by the market. They don't care about history, they don't care about culture, they don't care whether you live or die, they don't care about religion, atheism or spirituality. Anything outside the market doesn't even register.

While I can understand the supposed ideological purity of market politics, it's for all reasons morally bankrupt and a poor way to build a society of humans (who are naturally spiritual creatures, naturally violent, naturally selfish). Utopian market politics based on such flawed individuals is doomed to failure.

>>140580210
Unrestricted capitalism would not do that because there would be no regulatory burden to starting your own business. There would be way more competition in the market.

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>>140575182
>Without the welfare state you'd see almost zero immigration.
do libertarians realize that ending the welfare state is about as likely as the hispanic vote swinging towards small gov policies?

>>140580413
>we'll save the free market by importing millions of anti free market voters
libertarians should be sterilized desu

>>140580523
Who needs democracy

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This fucking bitch.

>>140575462
Reason is shit, and not real libertarians.They were for Gary Johnson to the end, and full of a bunch of faggots.

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>>140572173
I doubt any of you are old enough to remember but back when Reason was 100% male and before they brought in that cunt and the other insane feminist who advocates for women to become literal whores they were actually a pretty reliable source for libertarian-minded news. They were totally anti-political correctness.

>>140572173
libertarians don't believe in countries, or borders

they view borders as authoritarian

yet fences are just privite buinsess protecting their land

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>>140572173
Open borders and free trade. People who can't compete with people from the fucking 3rd world BTFO

>>140580606
>democrat/republican
>namefag
Is this a shitty attempt at trolling?

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>>140572173
>That big bird looking bitch talking about how grand it would be to have a billion people come here.

>>140581109
>libertarians don't believe in countries, or borders

they view borders as authoritarian
Incorrect.You absolutely can't have a country without borders.

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>>140572173
How do I stay libertarian and still support protectionism? Every libertarian I talk to outside of /pol/ (and many on /pol/) are like that woman who don't give a shit about her own people's wellbeing. I'm starting to believe it's not possible and I can't call myself libertarian without disregarding my nation

>>140581755
So you're not a libertarian who calls themself a libertarian

>>140581755
Nice LARPing you natsoc cuck. Unlike communists and natsocs we actually do care about people and don't want them to have shit living standards and die in the millions to sustain failed socialist policies.

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>>140572173
This is great.

Divide and conquer the left as much as possible

>>140579860
Well here's on way to look at it:
There's something like an ideal population size, for a given piece of land, for people to live prosperously. What that ideal size is - is subject to many determining factors (resources on the land, culture of the people, resources available through trade etc etc), so it by no means obvious just how many people you should have on a given piece of land - but we know the extremes!

We know that if a small number of people inhabit a large portion of land, increasing their population will provide a net benefit to their prosperity, this is where "wealth creation" comes into effect.
(this is more or less the Early America model)

But we also know that if a very large number of people inhabit a given portion of land, increasing their population will lower the standard of living of the majority of the population (the "1%" will, in all likely hood, continue to prosper). This is evident in countries like China and India which have abhorrent living standards for the average citizen DUE TO OVERPOPULATION.

Now it is entirely possible that todays America has reached a comfortable middle ground and they are currently weighing the pros and cons of further immigration. Obviously further immigration will be beneficial to some (I'm looking at you corporations) but it will also have negative effects on others (the white working class) and what you are currently seeing in America, with the Trump phenomenon, is those separate classes wrestling for control over the country's borders.

>>140582017
to poorly quote the woman in the interview
>should americans get priority over illegals when it comes to hiring
>"no"
>is it better to open a factory in america instead of china
>"no"
why would I support her statements? I'm not some ancapfag

>>140572173
JEW ALERT

>>140582754
To be fair she said something like "it's not morally wrong", her mistake is trying to govern by some "higher morals" - not by what's best for her people.

>>140579857
Individual rights are the only rights that matter. A society that does not respect them will eventually fail. And I have a hard time thinking of any situation where there is an idiosyncracy. Even something like a chemical company dumping shit in the oceans can be resolved by thinking about individual rights. We have the science now that can show that dumping that shit affects individuals. So there is a way to mediate that.

>>140573699
when you put people in a situation where they cannot be left the fuck alone what do you expect

>>140572726
It's based on the same assumption as communism: people are interchangeable and culture is meaningless. Fuck libertarians.

>>140582978
I guess that's true

>female libertarian
>advocating the government allow for unfettered immigration when she KNOWs it will result in gibs growing the national debt exponentially and raising taxes

lol that bitch is a fake as fuck, and is really a crypto lefty

>>140572624
No. You don't put parentheses around that name. You can put them around (((Ayn Rand))) though. She literally told Rothbard to divorce his wife because he married a Christian (and very probably because he married a non-Jew), after which Rothbard distanced himself from the Objectivists.

But you're right not to trust mainstream lolbertarians. Any lolbertarian who doesn't follow Hoppe is a pawn of the globalists.

>>140572898
Good libertarians believe in the nation and national identity, but not the nation state.

>>140572173
The only thing they love is money.

They think they'll live in a multicultural paradise where brown people toil in farms, mines, and dirty factories for a small pittance and in dangerous conditions. A world where the "job creators" will be revered as living gods, bestowing their blessings on the poor slobs they own like medieval serfs bound to the nobility and the land.

You know, instead of being overthrown, butchered and their wealth redistributed like history shows to be the almost inevitable outcome of a "multicultural paradise ".

>>140584347
Why would any self-respecting libertarian support the choices of a government that is actively enriching those it lets in, at the expense of those that already live in the area that they govern?

Again, this woman is a fraud.

>>140583662
She's a tool of big businesses shilling for unrestricted immigration in order to stagnate wages and maximize profit margins.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOFuhXn36Ew
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xw8rpoqFJM

If you're anti-anarchocapitalism (and you're not a leftpol d/c shill), watch these two videos. They might change your perspective slightly. Realize that Hoppe is the de facto leader of the movement today.

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>>140572173
open borders is the main reason I can never support lolbertarians.

>>140584548
Because she's not a self respecting libertarian, she's an amoral whore selling herself like a prostitute to shill ideas she probably doesn't even care about.

>>140579931
What does not count is someone saying "whites are better than blacks". No one is harmed by that. Or, having more wealth than someone else is not aggression. Or, having better parents is not aggression.
Now, saying "I'm going to kill you" is aggression. Maybe it's unclear how serious the person saying that is, but it's definitely aggression, unless it's clearly a joke. So that's why saying that is dangerous to the speaker. The speaker should understand that.
Saying, "you are being deported because you are not a legal citizen" is not aggression if that's under the legal system in place. If you think that person is being aggressed and you cannot house that person on your property, maybe the system and its definition of property is the problem, and not the deportation itself.

>>140584568
>stagnate wages
Now who's the real dreamer?

>>140584812
minarchy...get acquainted wit it

>>140572173
I appreciate the lot of you 4chan guys feel empowered to join the rest of us in civil society now that papa bear Trump is telling ya it's okay. But let me send you a message. This is a blip(?). A temporary entafada(?). I know it feels good to have your worst instincts validated, but don't be fooled. Use this opportunity, now that you're out of your parent's basement, to meet a few people that aren't like you, that actually care about minorities.

>This is what libertarians think who cares what they actually say

wow nice thread

>>140572173
they have been brainwashed by the rise of cultural marxism that infiltrated universities and pop culture

one word demoralization.

>>140585046

>get on board with us, Trump supporter!

>you assumed basement dweller with no black friends!

See this is why we think you're retarded

>>140572173
>Why do libertarians hate america?
Mindless ideologues.

Also... Can we talk about how this bitch has physical signs that she has a YUUUUUGE clit?

>>140585046
Do you mean intifada or enchirito?

>>140572173
god.

>Reason magazine.

into the trash it goes. This cunt is fucking trash.

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>>140572173
They're just jews larping as libertarians, to try and control that particular narrative as well.

When cancer metastasizes, it doesn't relegate itself to one locality.

>>140579534
>Many libertarians are crypto-communists. I know it sounds crazy but I am one.
You understand you are speaking to a board of crypto-nazi libertarians, right?

I think libertarians love the actual concept of America as bing a small goverment that allows people to live their lives and protect themselves.

It's all you commies and nazis that are and have always been America's enemy. You're just two different brands of authoritarian dogvomit.

>>140584812
Libertarian does not equal open borders

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>>140584812

>>140572726
what open-borders lolbertarians fail to realize if their precious open borders theories also imply that we would be recolonizing africa and making those vast tracts of land productive again. Third-worlders coming to the first world has very little to do with increasing "muh world gdp"

>>140586092
Why would a nationalist of any kind allow illegals in?Fucking idiot memer.

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Commies= jew's lap dog
Nazis = jew's controlled opposition

>>140580413
this chart pretty much proves that the puritan work ethic is exclusively a white idea that no other race can comprehend

libertarians better get their fucking heads on straight, because their dreams are doing down the toilet just as fast as the white nationalists

>>140582754
These are issues that work themselves out if there are no centralized currencies, and it's ok to discriminate. But, those things don't exist, so there are consequences to allowing these globalist ideas to be promulgated before governments are decentralized/dissolved. It's putting the cart before the horse.

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>>140585046
Kill yourself. Not like commies have souls anyway. I'm "racist" precisely because I grew up around "minorities."

Actually, it was the South and I was the white minority. Niggers are a nightmare to be around. And I love you white kids in the heartland, but you'll never quite understand what it's like to be a minority among a verifiable subspecies.

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>>140575335
Asians still vote for the democrats despite it not being in their economic interests. This isn't even a Trump thing as with Romney.

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>>140573711
>Germanics
no that sounds awful. A bunch of humourless autists who ruin every country they touch.

WASPs only please

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>>140586291
Legal or illegal the continent that will be the main source of immigrants in this century will be Africa.

>>140576175
>Whites won America by devine right? By that logic could we not say Muslims are moving in to take it by their devine right?
This implies we have a devine right to prevent them from coming by with force if necessary, so by your own admission you should sit back and let us BTFO migrant boats

>>140586143
This is the issue where hardcore principled libertarians who recognize the reality of the situation butt heads with the squishy cultural hippie libertarians who think there is a way to incrementally make libertarian society by cozying up to the globalists. The principled understand there must be global anarchy, whereas the squishy think there can be a global libertarian government.

>>140587389
>he thinks the complete Malthusian collapse of Africa is not coming
America/Europe are collapsing, so no more food for them. Good luck with Chinese insectoids

>>140577001
Keynesian economic brainlets also argue for government intervention because it somehow boosts the economy, they justify taking money from people and spending it on other things because they think the government somehow knows how to spend money better than people. Suffice to say if everybody has a different idea of what "boosts the economy" perhaps we should be skeptical of anyone advocating a policy to "boost the economy" because most likely they are just proposing you do what they wanted to do anyway.

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>>140572173
Tucker owned this bitch. A good dose of reality.
Pathological altruism is is literally killer western civilization.

>>140577311
>America used to have open borders
You keeping using that word, I don't think it means what you think it means. When America had "open borders" everyone who was allowed to immigrate was from europe. I agree with you open borders between white countries would be a good thing. The EU might not have been perfect, but it was functional until they let in a bunch of muslim sandniggers.

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>>140572173
libertarians are neo-corpratists who care more about consumption than real Americans.

>>140572173
Libertarianism are liberals. It does not matter that they claim otherwise, they hold liberal beliefs. They are essentially radical classical liberals.

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>>140587389
They won't carry the torch of civilization.
All already predicted.

"The Passing of The Great Race" (1916) -Madison Grant | https://archive.org/details/ThePassingOfTheGreatRace
"The Decline of The West vol. I" (1918) -Oswald Spengler | https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.125133
"The Decline of The West Vol. II" (1923) -Oswald Spengler | https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.264078
"The Rising Tide of Color Against White World-Supremacy" (1920) -Dr. Lothrop Stoddard | https://archive.org/details/TheRisingTideOfColorAgainstWhiteWorld-Supremacy1920-Dr.LothropStoddard

>>140588081
Yes, and a system that permits subversion to occur.

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>>140572173

Libertarianism is not a political ideology or set of ideas.

It's simply a state of indifference and intellectual laziness.

>>140572173
As a libertarian, I don't believe others are true libertarians. Freedom can only be free when it is stable and well maintained. The left is not an ally of the free.

>>140580413
what I find interesting about this is the blacks are at least aware of how the government fucks them. They often complain about the CIA starting the crack epidemic or some other shit like that, and at least they have the good sense to realize that the same entity that did that is probably not the best entity to be made bigger (now obviously they still want the gibs, but the fact that they have views similar to the asians despite being in the same economic category as hispanics means the blacks at least know something is up)

Also if the idea that economics influences all human decisions the Asians would vote like more extreme whites, and the blacks would vote like more extreme hispanics, but they don't so perhaps "muh everything is economics" is wrong.

>>140589069
Even whites do not realize when they are getting fucked over by the government.

>>140588081
Tucker 2024

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>>140588960

>Open borders to "free human migration" because capital should move unrestricted from one cesspit of poverty to the other, chasing the lowest wages

>Islamic world pours in, outbreeds native population in 2-3 generations, imposes Sharia and beheads retarded lolbertarians and homosexuals in the public square

It's a self-solving problem.

>>140572624
Read the Betrayal of the American Right by Rothbard he explains wtf going on at the time and what they were doing joining with the "liberals" to be anti-war etc.

>>140572638
Hang on a sec, people are the market, the will of the market is the will of the people. wants/needs...and yeah you're right its not a racist ideology but its a framework from which people can have their subjective preferences which may be racist within and still live peacefully with people.

>>140572726
>open boarders part of Libertarianism
That would not be a libertarian. That's a neocon masquerading as a libertarian. Classical libertarians are isolationist. Close the borders and retract from the world theatre.

>>140589611
You would need a strong government to do that. Also, what if the population wants mass migration?

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>>140588818
Inaccurate. Start by reading "Common Sense" by Thomas Paine.

True libertarianism ONLY works in a society where the people are religious and morally upright, without the necessity of a government to mandate that morality. The more depraved and degenerate a society becomes, the more government is necessary. I understand that there are a number of pedophiles/leftists/etc scum that attempt to align themselves with libertarianism, but these people are exactly why we created government in the first place. Having no morality or conscience themselves, it becomes necessary for a common government to enforce one.

The only true, functioning libertarianism is naturally conservative by nature. This isn't well understood, because there is a massive amount of disinformation pushed on this point. "Libertarian" used to by synonymous with Protestant Christian. And the current shill-media goal seems to be of defining it economically and as atheism, nihilism, or some sort of political defense for advanced sociopathy.

Many of today's libertarians are fake or have an agenda.

>>140589714
America was like this pre WWII. The country went by what was called the Washington doctrine. Truman shredded it and created what is call the Truman doctrine. Google it, and your welcome.

>>140589361
I would honestly not care, if I were able to live long enough to outlast the impending collapse of the west. 99% of humans are not logical enough, nor smart enough, to live in a libertarian society.

>>140575310
Remember when Australia had all these Europeans like the Slavs coming in the 50's/60's fleeing communism that ended up helping build the country, founded successful farming communities in WA & brought a lot of highly skilled workers over to improve everyones lives?

Back then my grandparents needed a sponsor that guaranteed accomodation, employment, personal vouching etc. Today my little Korean mates come over here, again they need a sponsor, they need to have work & accomadation lined up beforehand, they pay for a visa, they pay full freight for study, pay taxes from the very first $1 earnt.

This form of normal migration through history has been great throughout history, the movement of labour, economic growth, sharing skilled workers between lands, letting labour flow where its needed/wanted.

I mean hell do you remember when the Chinese helped build the rails in the US? There is merit to the idea that sometimes westerners dont want to do certain jobs, the Chinese were willing to risk blowing themselves up to work in the west. There are jobs cheapos are willing to do that Aussies cbf doing like seasonal fruit picking for some reason. (honestly aussies just cant handle being in a squat position for 8 hours but Koreans are built for that shit).

Why all the distrust for economics and economic history? It's not dehumanizing as people make it out.

>>140590348
>America was like this pre WWII. The country went by what was called the Washington doctrine. Truman shredded it and created what is call the Truman doctrine. Google it, and your welcome.
All of the West was like this 100 years ago. It failed because the population allowed subversion and destruction of nations to occur. I understand what libertarianism believes in, it is just self destructive.

>>140590785
>It failed
No it didn't, we were forced into it to protect the Jews my blue pilled friend. Everything this country does internationally benefits Israel. We broke our one major rule. We got caught up in foreign entanglements. For the past 80 years we been at war or engaging in proxy wars.

>>140572173

>(((Reason)))
>Libertarian

Pick one

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>>140590785
Libertarianism isn't the same thing as anarchy. It's a more focused vision of what government should do.

Every individual gives up some of their property to ensure the security of the group. We call this government/the public sector. Security being the first and foremost duty of a government, any government that lets in undesirables or fails to protect the nation's borders, is a government remiss of its natural obligations.

In terms of war, it doesn't mean a perpetual Monroe Doctrine. Sometimes, it means you have to kill Barbary Mohammedan scum.

There's a reason why 19th century libertarians tended to be Nativists, Know-Nothings, and highly protectionist. Original libertarianism would be far more nationalist than neo-conservatism/neo-liberalism. And more moral, honest, diligent, and internally sustainable as well.

>>140591951
>neo-conservatism/neo-liberalism
Both are communist.

>>140591894
>No it didn't, we were forced into it to protect the Jews my blue pilled friend. Everything this country does internationally benefits Israel. We broke our one major rule. We got caught up in foreign entanglements. For the past 80 years we been at war or engaging in proxy wars.
Yes. Jews, Jews, Jews. Never the white population or corporations who see their societies degenerating and their nations destroyed, and do not care. Liberalism failed.

>>140591951
Libertarianism cannot survive without heavy state involvement. This defeats the whole purpose of libertarianism. The man in the picture you posted explained why.

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>>140592184
https://archive.org/details/NoneDareCallItTreasonJohnStormer

>>140592196
>corporations
Who do you think runs these corporations? Who gave them the loans? Never underestimate greed. It supersedes patriotism.

>>140590721
See >>140579688 and >>140582262

Westerners are at the stage where labour jobs are being eaten by automation, low skilled immigration is no longer needed nor beneficial.

While we're on the subject of Australia; look at the housing prices! - Driven by the increased demand of mass immigration.
No "benefit" which comes from low skilled immigrants is going to offset that huge hike "cost of living".

>>140592889
>Jews, Jews, Jews
You do not understand capitalism, which libertarianism seems to care so much about. Corporations and the actions they do are the result of laissez-faire economy.

>>140572726

Why would you even be a libertarian if it means wrecking the livelihood of your fellow citizens?

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>>140572638
>>140572173
>>140572624
>>140584812

Today I will remind them.

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>>140592330
>cannot survive without heavy state involvement
Well you have your wish. We must be living in a utopia right now. For some reason, the heavy-handed state no longer performs the basic purpose and function of government.

Need I remind you that America spent most of its existence as a non-interventionist, libertarian nation that was predominantly lead by self-sufficient pioneers, was white, prosperous, and still had a strong, modern military.

There are certain groups that entered this nation with a chip on their shoulder in the late 19th century and early 20th century, who should never have been allowed in. And before the Hart-Celler Act, they wouldn't have.
And now the government conducts its crimes against its own citizenry with impunity, precisely because it is too big.

>>140593135
>Corporations
Are a product of WW2. They were meant only to help with war production and than be dismantled. Thanks to Truman they were allowed to keep existing. They should have been dismantled. You are confusing free market with capitalism. Libertarians love the free market. Only a Ignoramus doesn't understand there is a huge difference between the two.

>>140593700
>Well you have your wish. We must be living in a utopia right now. For some reason, the heavy-handed state no longer performs the basic purpose and function of government.
Yeah, the consequences of liberalism. That is exactly what I am asking for.

>Need I remind you that America spent most of its existence as a non-interventionist, libertarian nation that was predominantly lead by self-sufficient pioneers, was white, prosperous, and still had a strong, modern military.
wut? We fought three wars against foreign powers (one explicitly imperialist) in the 19th century, and almost too many to count in the 20th century. That is called "propaganda."

>There are certain groups that entered this nation with a chip on their shoulder in the late 19th century and early 20th century, who should never have been allowed in. And before the Hart-Celler Act, they wouldn't have.
Liberalism allowed that to happen.

>And now the government conducts its crimes against its own citizenry with impunity, precisely because it is too big.
Government (elites) has never trusted the citizens, ever. Democracy is a scam.

>>140594184
>Corporations are a product of WW2
>They were meant only to help with war production and than be dismantled.
Do you know what a corporation even is? I did not know Standard Oil was formed in the 1940s
>You are confusing free market with capitalism. Libertarians love the free market. Only a Ignoramus doesn't understand there is a huge difference between the two.
Says the person who does not even know what a corporation is. Free market is an allocation of goods. Capitalism is according to definition private ownership of means of production. The words are often used interchangeably and you do not seem to be somebody with extensive knowledge of business (or ideologies), so I did not think it mattered

>>140592330
Yuri Bezmenov did not explain why Libertarianism needs heavy state involvement wtf.

>>140593027
You're right we are in a different situation today. Problem I see is an inflexible labour market, too many barriers to entry for new businesses which means we can't absorb , adapt & make use of surplus labour. I can't say whether lots of people going to one place is good but I do know that with a proper economy & no welfare state immigration becomes much more serious.

Like I said in that post even today you have koreans that have to have sponsors, pay for visas, have jobs lined up doing things aussies dont want to do and pay tax from $1 onwards. So in their case it probably is beneficial & I don't think they're taking jobs away. Ridiculous if you think about it, there should never be a shortage of jobs there's always something that could be done if we were free to do it.

On Australia I don't see immigration as the cause for house prices. For starters the net immigration levels could hardly be called "mass" they're actually pretty damn low, again the lack of supply has an obvious culprit. Not sure about net benefit vs cost of living, naturally cheaper labour would reduce the cost of the goods produced, housing prices need to come down but thats another issue altogether.

Funnily enough it's not Syrians, or Chinese or anything that represent our biggest immigration/job issues. It's actually Kiwi's, they can come over here en masse (they're our biggest migration demographics), they don't have to go through the same hoops as every other foreigner, they go for the jobs our unskilled citizens want and they are driving up the cost of rent etc by flooding into our last few affordable suburbs. Don't even need closed borders to fix that, just need to make them subject to the same standards the Chinese/Koreans are and problem solved.

>>140594758
>Yuri Bezmenov did not explain why Libertarianism needs heavy state involvement wtf.
He said that Western democracies are open to subversion. They allow dangerous ideologies and groups to fester. Libertarianism by definition would allow them to fester.

>>140594925
Except Libertarianism isn't necessarily democratic , Democracy is communism light in all seriousness. Whether freedom of information would allow bad ideas to fester is one thing but to say Liberty needs heavy state involvement is probably a bad choice of words. Unless you mean needs the state to protect it from this subversive information?

It's a pretty big issue for the world as a whole if you think about it, how do you stop people from adopting bad ideas? Does trying to ban something just make it more appealing? Does leaving it open to criticism allow it to be dismantled before it takes hold? Or are we just too emotional as creatures to live in a world based on logic & reason?

It's pretty important to trace the subversion as it happened. I know as one example that idiot lefties were swayed by Marxists beliefs that fed their envy so in my country they were extremely active in sending literature to every profession & did free seminars for Unions etc to infect people with their propaganda. They have the time for activism while getting welfare bucks, how do we get active as well?

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>>140572173
>liberal
>libertarian
Pick one

>>140594191
*four wars

>>140595552
I wish Libertarians could claim the word Liberal back. It's our fookin tradition cunt.

>>140594488
You have a lot to learn still. There are a lot of little details your missing. You have pieces but not the whole puzzle. Laws were enacted to bust up corporations. Than they were repealed. I would give you the information, but you can go fuck yourself for being a dick head. I find it rather very amusing how you think you know it all, Eventually it will lead to a very awkward situation in public when someone publicly destroys you. Insulting cock sucker.

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>>140593545
Never understood the trade argument for multiculturalism. Just because I like eating bananas doesn't mean I want to live with monkeys.

>>140594191
>liberalism
Can you be more specific?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXKeiTTN7Wc

>Elites never trusted the citizens
Doesn't matter who those cancer cells trust. It only takes a minority of us to spread the truth. Pic related.

>>140595752
>You have a lot to learn still.
About what?
>There are a lot of little details your missing. You have pieces but not the whole puzzle. Laws were enacted to bust up corporations. Than they were repealed.
Officially. Do you think the Rockefellers are not still in control of Exxon? Anyway, liberalism allowed those laws to be repealed.
>I would give you the information, but you can go fuck yourself for being a dick head.
Lol. Why don't you try to understand what liberalism is teaching economically, and then look at what happened to countries with unrestricted free markets
>I find it rather very amusing how you think you know it all,
Never said I did. I just pointed out that you do not know what a corporation is (a lemonade stand can be one), or what libertarianism teaches.
>Eventually it will lead to a very awkward situation in public when someone publicly destroys you. Insulting cock sucker.
In what? Most people don't sperg out over politics in public.

>>140595791
>Can you be more specific?
Liberalism (ignore American mainstream politics) is the belief in freedoms, equality, and liberty. If you look up classical liberalism, it very similar to what libertarians believe. Liberalism allows nations to be destroyed because the population either wants it (Europe) or does not care (United States).

>Doesn't matter who those cancer cells trust. It only takes a minority of us to spread the truth. Pic related.
The masses have never been in control of this country. Democracy has always been a scam. It is two groups of elites competing for power.

>>140572173
>IMMIGRATION IS ALWAYS GOOD
>MORE SHEKELS MEANS MORE BUYING POWER

What a fucking uneducated cunt

>>140595752
You're 99% right. Our laws and civic institutions were systematically undermined and subverted. But genuine idiots are naturally convinced of their infallibility. You don't have to make it drink, but you have to try leading the horse to water.

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>>140595716
I'm pretty sure this thread is bait.
However fuck pinko liberal scum.

>>140596133
>liberalism
Libertarians are not liberals. You better learn the difference. I never said I supported liberalism. You made way to many assumptions. Of course the Rockefellers still run Exxon. They are family of con artists. They figured out a way to conceal it. Same way the Rothschilds have their fingers in everything.

>>140594758
Australia has one of the highest rates of immigration, per capita, in the civilized world.
Yes that has a large effect on housing prices.

>Like I said in that post even today you have koreans that have to have sponsors, pay for visas, have jobs lined up doing things aussies dont want to do and pay tax from $1 onwards. So in their case it probably is beneficial & I don't think they're taking jobs away. Ridiculous if you think about it, there should never be a shortage of jobs there's always something that could be done if we were free to do it.
If the demand for these jobs is not satiated (by Koreans) then the free market would dictate that the wages would have to increase, applying upward pressure to all wages. Satiating the demand applies downward pressure to wages.
Remember how everyones always complaining about wages being stagnate despite inflation?

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>>140572173
MORE POPULATION ALWAYS EQUALS A BETTER ECONO-

>RECORD SCRATCH
>FREEZE FRAME

>>140596487
>equality
Equality before the law. Not a single founder believed people were identical.
>liberty
Yes. Like the liberty to worship God, and freely observe that subsaharan blacks exist as a subspecies of homo sapiens.
I fail to see what's wrong with classical liberalism. Ostensibly, the enemy can subvert anything--including anti-democratic monarchies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_Jew).

You make it, and the Synagogue of Satan will invariably pervert it. It's the way of the world.

>two groups of elites competing
The competition is an illusion. "Elites" are mammonists. Ultimately, they serve one master: satan.

>>140572173
Don't hate whites just hate how big and abusive your government is

>>140572173
These people are stupid.

>>140580523
>voters
That's the only issue, dude. The libertarian way is to allow cheap labor to visit - not vote, not gain citizenship.

>>140597612
>Libertarians are not liberal
LIBertarians are not LIBerals? Yes they are, just old school ones.
>You better learn the difference.
There is no difference
>I never said I supported liberalism
You are defending LIBertarianism. I understand your ideology, I am just saying that it would not function without heavy state involvement (breaking up monopolies, economic protectionism, not allowing degeneracies, etc). This kind of defeats the purpose of libertarianism as the government will have to be powerful, so the "freedoms" become privileges, not rights.

>>140572173
ur retard

>>140593545
Brilliantly stated but very suspicious imo
>wealth and welfare are subjective
>free market < freedom from barbarian hordes

Sounds like the rhetorical tactics of marxists just used in the opposite way. Would you be able to back it up for me?

>>140598014
Libertarianism isn't anarchy. Limited government can exist under it.

>>140598515
I understand that. But, libertarianism would need to be protectionist, break up monopolies, prevent cartels, have a strong military to defend the nation, and stop degeneracies in order for the society to remain libertarian. A government could not be limited and fulfill these would not be limited at all. As a result, these "freedoms" would be privileges.

>>140598739
Protectionist how?
>A government could not be limited and fulfill these
What makes you think that? You take the gov't we currently have, subtract a few non-militaristic agencies, and you're there. Pre-FDR US had it.

>>140599102
>Protectionist how?
Can't let a company fire their employees to hire pajeet code monkeys or chink slaves. In free markets, monopolies and cartels will form. Either they will become more powerful than the government, or the government will break them up.
>What makes you think that? You take the gov't we currently have, subtract a few non-militaristic agencies, and you're there. Pre-FDR US had it.
The militarism is not our only problem. The creation of .a permanent underclass is.

>>140597616
> If the demand for these jobs is not satiated (by Koreans) then the free market would dictate that the wages would have to increase
True, the inverse is also possible with prices though. It shouldn't be an issue if everything wasn't so restricted. Honestly the biggest factor for the wage issue imo is that the only ones that have had I guess you could say "net job growth" are corporations. By that I mean the number of businesses today has pretty much stagnated over the last 10-20 which is really depressing, so the jobs that are added just come from mostly the same businesses expanding, more Coles, more mines openning etc. Obviously there's a lot of factors that go into it but when I saw the business stats it was pretty shocking even for a Libertarian that assumed it was bad.

> Australia has one of the highest rates of immigration, per capita
This is true, I don't know how 0.7% is supposed to be call "mass" but I was mistaken I thought the net figure was around 80,000 not 180,000. I don't know what i have against kiwis and their fucking cross country border policies but how 600,000 could have settled here, the equivalent of around 12% of their population is fuckin ridiculous.

With all the Brits, Kiwis, Chinese etc coming here I wonder what this country would look like with a free market economy particularly around land use & development.

>>140599546
>Pre-FDR US had it.
Pre-FDR US did have it. But, big business, Jews and other elite/government, etc brought the West down through the system of liberalism. If the government were to stop it, it would not truly be a libertarian society.

>>140599737
>I don't know how 0.7% is supposed to be call "mass"
Is that per year? If so, in 40 years, that is 28% of your population. That is assuming the native population and immigrant populations have no growth

>>140599546
Thank you.
You can totally allow companies to hire pajeets and such.
More profits for the American company. The job loss is short term while our guys find new work, or get the education to outperform the foreigners. Or, without minimum wage laws, simply take the lower wage.

I understand the necessity of anti-monopoly laws, though.

What's the permanent underclass if you don't mind?

>>140599764
>liberalism
I disagree, they brought it down with leftism, not classic liberalism.
New-age liberals would never have allowed pre-FDR society to exist with its racist cartoons, dangerous cars, and working children.

Note the unnatural hair color.

>>140600134
>You can totally allow companies to hire pajeets and such.
Then libertarianism is not compatible with nationalism.
>More profits for the American company.
Yes, just for the top guys
>The job loss is short term while our guys find new work, or get the education to outperform the foreigners.
They can't compete with someone who will work for 1/3 the wage
>Or, without minimum wage laws, simply take the lower wage.
A race to the bottom
>What's the permanent underclass if you don't mind?
The real reason for mass migration. If you flood the job market with 50 million more people, wages will go down. This is why big businesses want more immigration.
>I disagree, they brought it down with leftism, not classic liberalism.
Classical liberalism through democracy allowed modern day leftism to form political movements.
>New-age liberals would never have allowed pre-FDR society to exist with its racist cartoons, dangerous cars, and working children.
Yeah, all that tranny and fag stuff would not be allowed. Socialism has been around though since before FDR was born. It was gradual, but foreseeable.

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>>140572173
>libertarians

>>140572173
Nothing but literal garbage spewing from both those fucks mouths.

>>140600874
A "libertarian" who is too lazy to actually work in the free market he loves so much is one of the rejects of society, okay? That's why the republicans are such losers, they're the rejects of society that couldn't lift their asses and work. The rest of republicans and libertarians are hard workers.

Unlike the democrats who are all losers and rejects in the first place

>>140600704
There's no such thing as profits "just for the top guys". Someone has to build the yachts.
Working for a lower wage isn't a race to the bottom, it's a race to the true value of your work - and what's more is it's negotiable in a free market. That doesn't sound nice at first but consider a company that was forced to pay burger flippers the same amount as soldiers. A fall in the wage of the burger flipper is an approach to a sensible value.

Nationalism can inspire customers to purchase from a guy that hires only American. Employee efficiency - tied to employee happiness and health - can inspire an owner to raise his wages.
And companies can afford that in a free market - see Gerald Ford.

>Classical liberalism through democracy allowed modern day leftism to form political movements.
Leftism itself wasn't birthed in libertarianism but authoritarianism. It exploded under the Tzar. I agree that democracy - just one aspect of the libertarian society - facilitated it's growth. But to reiterate my point about "old america", we've had a system to challenge that sort of populism that's been working fine for some time. The electoral college.

>>140578595
Now what you're saying makes sense. And I agree with you. However the US has a major problem with what we've already imported. Also with the amount of social services. It's not feasable to be pro immigration the way the system is right now. The only way that we could get to something workable is to just shut our borders for the time being until we can work out this issue.

What isn't correct is the anti American sentiment.

When a business is based in America and has all the benefits of living in America and or using the American system it is obligated or should be forced/mandated to priotize American interests/hire Americans before accepting from another country. Unless the person can prove they're a larger asset/better/stronger employee.

>>140601977
>Gerald Ford

Christ, Henry Ford.

>>140602073
kek

>>140600004
True. So around 300,000 births or 1.25%, 0.7% immigration & deaths at around 0.65%. Though that is still with a 1.8 birth rate so I wonder when that starts to weigh on those figures but in that perspective it's pretty messed up.

Open boarder libertarians are the biggest kike suckers that fell for the biggest kike trick. Pathetic. I hope all of them have a family member raped and murdered by an immigrant while they have to watch.

>>140602494
What about normal borders until the welfare state can be abolished and the borders privatized/ returned to the peoples hands rather than the state?

>>140602761
^ not a libertarian.

Jewish AnCap

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>>140602761
>borders privatized

>>140572173
Most libertarians are very leftwing socially speaking. They are basically socialists that like weed and sometimes guns.
inb4 not all libertarians and the ones on /pol/ are right wing.
I know. I'm talking about the average libertarians, not the /pol/ ones

>>140572726
Open borders isn't a part of libertarianism. It's a part of Jew cuckopted libertarianism. If open borders violates nap then so does keeping trespassers off your lawn.

AnCaps are just right-wing commies. Their fantasy land is just a unreasonable.

Conserving Whites isn't Conservatism™

t. thot jew in need of patrolling

>>140577544
According to whom?
Most economists agree immigration is good for the economy
https://www.cato.org/events/what-economists-think-about-immigration

>>140572638
>All immigration is a net gain to the economy if you don't believe in a welfare state.

That's obviously not true.

>>140574887
BTFO by a Brit
>>140575005
This poster is correct.

>>140580968
In what way are they not real Libertarian? They've been ideologically consistent with every libertarian idea.

>>140610365
>citing cato
If not trolling kys

>>140572173
Wait is that Trap or a real Woman?

>>140576703
There are always going to be people in the bottom 10% of IQ distribution. What other job should they have?

>>140577182
Laws?

>>140610624
gary johnson said bake that cake
not libertarian

>>140577942
Sure. Ideology matters more than race after all. You choose what you believe, and how you act and are accountable for that. You cannot decide your race

At least they are pro gun ?

>>140580234
It's not that libertarians don't care about things outside of the market, it's just that libertarians don't think that it should be enforced by the government. The threat of force shouldn't be applied to people because you disagree with them culturally. Why should what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home invoke government force?

>>140586410
So if that's the case, I'm sure the countries with the longest work weeks would all be white right?

>>140572173
she's not very smart, that's the start and end of it

>>140572638
Whether you believe in a welfare state or not is irrelevant when you're constantly allowing millions of people to immigrate to your country who do.

>>140610979
Did reason say bake that cake?
Reason backed Gary Johnson, but they didn't say he was a perfect candidate. They said the perfect is the enemy of the good in literally their most recent video

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>>140572173
I am so happy lolbertarianism is dead and young white males are not getting poisoned by this insidious jewish ideology anymore

>>140576159
>jobs [would be] taken by low skilled immigrants
thats not how markets work you little shit.
employers have a direct incentive to hire the most qualified worker for a given wage. I sincerely doubt Ronaldo, who doesn't bathe regularly and speaks broken English at best is any threat to a native citizen in a first-world country. It's no different than stating that the rising amount of homeless junkies are a "threat" to Aerospace Engineers. It could be definitely be argued that he is a net drain on society when you factor in social security, but thats a different story. I think we should cut the problem off at the source and get rid of the gibsmedats, thereby disincentivizing mass emigration in the first place.

>downwards pressure on wages
Newton's Third Law applies to markets as well. While employers are trying to maximize profit, so too are employees. Don't start your class warfare shit here nigga.

>>140611418
She's not. If she isn't Jewish I'm pretty sure someone could could change her opinion on this. All these libertarians are assuming that all people's political leanings are fluid and that it's not a fixed thing that blacks & Latinos vote leftist.

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>>140582754
>is it better to open a factory in america instead of china
>>"no"
>why would I support her statements? I'm not some ancapfag
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage
This is econ 102 stuff. Not every factory should be in the United States.

>>140584812
If those people are still following the laws and constitution literally what's the problem?

>>140611995
For one, they generally don't.

>>140611995
You should start here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIAOZbWMbmU

>>140611995
what's the problem with a nation without borders?

if it's a good country everyone in the world will move there and ruin it. like what is happening in europe and california.

>>140588291
Why are there black people in Japan?

>>140574087
>>140574312
Honest question, what's wrong with Reason?
Everything I've read from it has been ideologically consistent, and relatively well written.
The Libertarian Party, and bleeding heart libertarians are closet leftists tho.

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>>140611743
>While employers are trying to maximize profit, so too are employees

If you had studied actual economics and not meme economics at mises.org you would know that high rates of immigration increase the supply of labour and decrease the capital stock per worker raising the share of profits relative to wages. More labor intensive economy means lower wages and living condition for all not just the workers directly competing with the brown masses of immigrants.

>>140612168
>2017
>thinking ideologically

>>140612029
Then why does the image say "at least I have the Constitution"? if the country still has the Constitution, rule of law and people are sent to prison for breaking the law then what's the problem?

>>140612178
Maybe, but the better argument against open borders libertarianism is that the majority of non-white immigrants vote Democrat religiously and gradually erode the free market away.

>>140587007
>muh based Bomber
Enjoy your nigger dating Prince, Somali minister of immigration, chinks, diversity and all that shit
>autism
Said the jingoistic Anglo - a default good goy and grade A Untermensch. Germanics are far more social than all races on the British Isles bar the Irish

>>140612278
Because in order to truly 'have' a constitution you have to have a population that believes in it. The American constitution was the product of Anglo-Saxon traditions and customs, which do not resonate with most of the non-white world.

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>>140612225
>2012+5
>Basing your political opinions on irrational whims instead of principles

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>>140612333
True arguments that appeal to emotion always work better than autistic arguments about muh economy.

>>140612560
Yeah but we're debating w/libertarians right now, who are a group unusually reason-based.

>>140612663
They literally treat the economy as some sacred cow. How the fuck are they reason based?

>>140612663
dubious claim

>>140612473
ideology is completely pointless in the current year.

>>140612778
Because most people don't even bother to think about concepts like economics and go purely off of what makes them feel good. Social science research has indicated that they're less emotion driven than both liberals and conservatives.

>>140612818
>dubious claim
Says you. I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't activate a few almonds & redpill some libertarians who read this thread.

>>140612919
reason based thinking isn't relevant to politics

>>140612178
>(((actual economics)))
Solid argument. Any good reading material your would recommend?

>>140612333
This.
I may be libertarian, but I'm pragmatic enough that I have no problem with Trump decreasing the population of shitlibs (ie; non-whites) dilluting us out.

>>140613339
the final redpill