>>140572173The libertarians have been cucked every since (((Murray rothbard))) tried to form an partnership with the left in the 70's. I don't trust mainstream libertarians, they have this nihilism to them that is disgusting.
>>140572173 Libertarians see people as utility, a cog in the machine of the market. Society moulds around the will of the market. Its not a nationalistic or racist ideology. All immigration is a net gain to the economy if you don't believe in a welfare state. Plus you don't get scum because all come to work.
ideology. The open boarders part of Libertarianism is the dumbest part that makes no sense. It only makes sense in a theoretical world wide utopia where no boarders exist so people can just go anywhere to get any job, which is how they image it. But in reality, you are just opening up the country to being flooded with third worlders for gibsmedats (which libertarians are against to be fair) and also ruining the job market. The ONLY ones who benefit from this are huge corporations, who get an endless supply of employees, whos wages and benefits they can undercut. Dont like it? tough shit, there a million other people who are willing to work your job for less money.
>>140572173 >(((American citizens))) benefit when people, any color but white, come here work here and live here.
Idiots like this are why I gave up on libertarianism. The only solution is the far right and the construction of an ethnostate. You can not separate culture and biology and if we want western culture we need white people.
Libertarianism is a evil ideology that takes people's humanity, culture, and all meaningful bonds that they share and subjugates them to economic concerns. People are not viewed as humans but as economic cogs, so anything beyond their economic value is considered irrelevant.
>>140574342 >Limited government doesn't mean decentralized or weak government? Federalism is decentralized government. The entire purpose of the federal government under Jeffersonian principles is to prevent bullshit open boarders and foreign entanglements. Read some more!
>>140573699 No its not. All it takes is for a libertarian to understand that the marxists will run their small government just like it is now. They allready controll the movement and would sweep in to take the reigns if it got traction again.
>>140574712 It really isn't our culture is an emergent property that comes from our biology. You can import a bunch of niggers but they will never be compatible with white western civilization. You only have to go to any city in America to see the breakdown of white western culture when you import a bunch of non whites. The same can be said for whites in any other culture. I can no more be an Indian or Japanese. I could try to fit in but it would always be a larp.
>>140572624 Rothbard was a paleoconservative ya dummy. The Cato Institute, Koch Bros, and the LP are behind the cucking Based Murray left the Cato Institute in protest and opposed the creation of the Libertarian Party THIS is Rothbard's agenda. Tell me it's in line with the left. https://archive.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/ir/Ch5.html
>>140572638 Without the welfare state you'd see almost zero immigration. Taxation is theft, but also shameful is the fact that illegals in my country (USA) have access to ANY fruits of the tax system at all. Illegals should have zero access to our schools and hospital.
Additionally, those advocating open borders are shills. Anybody who has read essays and books from Von Mises Institute people and not meme articles and blogposts online know that the majority are in favor of closed borders
>>140572173 >Why do libertarians hate america? Omnipresent Marxist indoctrination, just like leftists.
It's about (((their))) globalist agenda. They want to run a prison planet of race-less, culture-less, nation-less, identity-less subdued sheep. They make up less than 1% of the world's population, yet look at all they control from the world's finances to the media that brainwashes us.
In short, they use the entertainment and news media to encourage globalism and discourage nationalism and traditional western values. They distort and lie about the present and past in that effort.
The truth about immigration, by the numbers: >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE
Cultural Marxist Jews Admit Organizing White Genocide
The plan to eliminate the white race: >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOgkGzMdieI
Cultural Marxism in action… Political Correctness, the tip of the blade: >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6c_dinY3fM
Cultural Marxism & Social Justice explained: >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnqIj8C2Aek
Why are we in decline - Cultural Marxism: >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VggFao85vTs
The Jewish role in the refugee crisis: >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfCOO7Z39j0
Leftist subversion explained by former KGB agent Yuri Bezmenov: >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hWYgPDVX_8
The facts about slavery in North America: >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5tci36bNjg >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFHa4db3hA0 >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A94smJ9QJ5g
Cultural Marxist Jews fund media propaganda against whites on an enormous scale: >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvNNtBmA3SQ
The Jewish role in the porn industry: >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwd_Iofr6ZQ
Does this sound familiar at all? (starting at 6:52) >https://youtu.be/kPdxhLUKZYM?list=PLo0ThsDnveH5nv5TNviBrGTX9P6IrYfIe&t=412
The Holocaust: >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPc899uUb-A >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgGP_evkvOk >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxpIsep4160
>>140574712 You know what else is scientifically unfounded nonsense? Human rights. Didn't stop me from beating nonwhites with my mates last weekend and torturing racemixed couple https://youtube.com/watch?v=klkyfbnS0TA
>>140575335 >Blacks are still suffering from the shit that went down in living memory. It takes much longer than a generation for social mobility to occur.
All the affirmative action in the world is not going to bring blacks to parity with whites. We are different creatures and should be left to our own devices. That is the same reason that while I respect Japs, and every other race, I don't want them in my countries. Whites won America by the divine right on conquest and to give that territory up because of Marxist propaganda is foolish.
>>140575146 >Literally finances every pro-diversity anti-racist shit in Europe. EVERY SINGLE NATION, EVERY SINGLE TIME. Oh, ok fag... LIke your shit hole doesn't promote Islam and savages... Fuck off dumb cunt!
>>140572173 That's a (((libertarian))). They used to occupy the edgy right and triggered shit libs. Now they just pander to them and are a strictly Jewish ideology. The movements dead because white men realized they need the power of the state to over come their enemies
>>140575452 >Job creation? Any job created by a low skilled immigrant will be outweighed (by far) by the jobs taken by low skilled immigrants. You will have a net loss of available jobs. >Job competition? This lowers wages for Americans. >Lower prices? Negligible given the relative downwards pressure on wages. >Lower taxes? As infrastructure falls under pressure I can't see taxes lowering much and it's not going to help those who no longer have a job or those who now earn less.
>>140575688 I doubt you even know what Marxism is? You blast it off like a buzzword as does everyone on pol. Whites won America by devine right? By that logic could we not say Muslims are moving in to take it by their devine right? When did I ask you to give up your territory? You moved most of the fucking blacks there yourselves? I didn't mention affirmative action. I'm just providing you with a more reasonable reason for social development disparity than "muh bell curve". It must be sad to be such a worthless human that your only sense of achievement comes from the achievements of others the same colour as you.
>>140576175 I was going to try to have a civil discussion with you but if you are going to pretend you don't understand how Marxist ideology has been poisoning the mind of White Europeans to make them feel guilty about who and what they are then their is no point. You are either a shill or hopelessly brainwashed.
On the off chance you are white, and English, you should give Jonathan Bowden a listen. He passed in 2012 but provided a clear voice on how the UK should move forward by moving to the right and reclaiming their white identity and patriotism. If you are a shitskin, don't bother, go back to your own country where you belong.
>>140576703 >It's the "everyone is just like me" world view
You're as delusional as a liberal, there are PLENTY OF DUMB AMERICANS (niggers for one). There are plenty of Americans who are incapable of working anything other than low skilled jobs - think about those people before you import millions of low skilled workers.
>>140575335 >his is a silly argument. Blacks are still suffering from the shit that went down in living memory. It takes much longer than a generation for social mobility to occur. >Also why would you not want Asians? Do they lower the crime rate too much? Or do you not like that they earn more? Awe.... you fuckin pathetic excuse making fuck!
This is the opposite of right. Rothbard, Paul, Rockwell, and the rest of the old libertarian guard left the Libertarian Party in the Late 80s after the social liberals took over. Rothabard despised leftism.
>>140576175 >I doubt you even know what Marxism is? You blast it off like a buzzword as does everyone on pol. Whites won America by devine right? By that logic could we not say Muslims are moving in to take it by their devine right? When did I ask you to give up your territory? You moved most of the fucking blacks there yourselves? I didn't mention affirmative action. I'm just providing you with a more reasonable reason for social development disparity than "muh bell curve". It must be sad to be such a worthless human that your only sense of achievement comes from the achievements of others the same colour as you. Do you know what Marxism is?
>>140576958 >I'm not working towards creating more racial tribalism. It's tedious.
Humanity will never escape what you so disparagingly call racial tribalism. The different groups of men can trade and live in peace as long as they remain separate. There are no examples of multi-cultural civilizations because it can't be done, we can not escape these biological differences. If you throw different people together you don't get cohesion you get violence and strife.
Keep selling out your fellow white man. The new majority in your country will gladly take power and expel you and murder your children because they are not a weak puppet like yourself.
Reason magazine, the LPN, and others on the beltway are definely controlled by the Kochtapus. Look off the beltway for the Old School libertarians who are hypertrationalist. Alot of the good ones are are at the Mises Institute. It was founded by Rothbard's protegees after all.
>>140577021 When did I make an excuse? Did I say it's okay? Did I say high level of black crime are okay? No. They should be arrested same as any other criminal.
What I am saying is there are a multitude of factors contributing to why the crime rate is high? If I was making excuses I would try to excuse their crime? Arresting them is not excusing their crime is it?
>>140576545 >Did you read that? It's not agreeing with you? Just fucking wiki federalism? There's a fucking section dedicated to the difference between us and euro Federalism is an American invention, ass! It was a result of a a debate between Jefferson and Hamilton. Federalism means that the Federal government handles external factors and enforces interstate contracts. The main governing body is the states. You are an idiot!
>>140577163 You have no clue who Bowden is do you? Give his lecture on Evola a listen. The man was a genius and died far to young. That being said he accurately foresaw what is occurring now. The left is in decay and the right now controls the counter culture. The next 50 years will be the rise of the right and return to tradition values or it will be the death of every white person on the planet. I don't think the white man is ready to die, despite the jewish propaganda telling him otherwise.
>>140577565 >When did I make an excuse? Did I say it's okay? Did I say high level of black crime are okay? No. They should be arrested same as any other criminal. >What I am saying is there are a multitude of factors contributing to why the crime rate is high? If I was making excuses I would try to excuse their crime? Arresting them is not excusing their crime is it? You responded to the wrong person fag, but since I am commenting, you contradict yourself. You say you did not make an excuse, but then make an excuse! It is free to not commit crimes! Fuck off! Do the crime, get the hammer!
>>140578034 >You want me to go into the Super structures? Or what? You want the dictionary definition? Or are you talking about the computing forever "CULTURAL MARXISM" Fuck off drunk, you keep responding to the wrong people!
>>140572173 (((left libertarians))) are not libertarians. They are socialists that don't like policing. This is evidenced by this """"""""libertarian"""""""" supporting a socialist program that gives some people free schooling and welfare just because their parents dropped them off here illegally.
>>140572173 American libertarians have been infested by SJWs. Libertarian feminists aka libertarian collectivists are rife on twatter. Or the absolute worst libertarian socialists (give me a fucking break)
They don't even care about individual freedom if it hurts their collectivist ideal and then when you challenge them on it, they'll BS about their libertarian right to organize; yeah organize in such a way to blot out the individual.
Finally, non-statists (anarchists) should shut the fuck up in regards to state policy. We already know what you think.
>>140572638 There won't be immigration from third world shitholes if there is no welfare, no socialized healthcare, no socialized education, etc. Only the highest IQ individuals from other countries (mostly European but some Chinese and Indians) will immigrate here and help our economy. That is why we should cut all welfare and go to merit based immigration system.
>>140577747 Not a libertarian. For one. We are all talking about ideas. You made several claims about what would happen under a libertarian interpretation of open borders. I am a simply asking why the claims were unfounded in the past and the difference today?
>>140572173 i cringed those people are unaware of what they´re saying, they are just repeating talking points without thinking, even milton friedman spoke about the dangers of illegal immigration and the welfare state the libertarian movement may have been hijacked or it´s just full of buffoons
I'm sure it's already been covered, but libertarianism is the ideal society if everyone agrees to it. Not democracy, but individual responsibility. The problem is the masses do not respect individual rights. And punishment for infringement of individual rights must be swift and severe. Give an inch and they'll take a mile. That's how every society breaks down.
>>140578787 We aren't talking about the past anon, America was a very different place and there could be a variety reasons why things worked differently back then - a massive demand for manual labour for one (which we don't have today).
We are talking about how low skilled immigration effects Americans TODAY. I've made my arguments, you seem unable to refute those arguments and have resorted to shifting the goalposts.
>>140579688 I don't disagree with your arguments is why. Because I believe we need some form of welfare state and regulated immigration levels. I'm not shifting goal posts just trying to extract more detail
>>140572173 Libertarians buy into the idea that unrestricted capitalism would inevitably lift everyone up. They ignore the criticisms that this can lead to people in first world countries having their standard of living lowered, which leads to these inanities of theirs.
>>140572173 Finally, it's obvious libertarians care about the raw market, their lives and everyone else is controlled by the market. They don't care about history, they don't care about culture, they don't care whether you live or die, they don't care about religion, atheism or spirituality. Anything outside the market doesn't even register.
While I can understand the supposed ideological purity of market politics, it's for all reasons morally bankrupt and a poor way to build a society of humans (who are naturally spiritual creatures, naturally violent, naturally selfish). Utopian market politics based on such flawed individuals is doomed to failure.
>>140575182 >Without the welfare state you'd see almost zero immigration. do libertarians realize that ending the welfare state is about as likely as the hispanic vote swinging towards small gov policies?
>>140572173 I doubt any of you are old enough to remember but back when Reason was 100% male and before they brought in that cunt and the other insane feminist who advocates for women to become literal whores they were actually a pretty reliable source for libertarian-minded news. They were totally anti-political correctness.
>>140572173 How do I stay libertarian and still support protectionism? Every libertarian I talk to outside of /pol/ (and many on /pol/) are like that woman who don't give a shit about her own people's wellbeing. I'm starting to believe it's not possible and I can't call myself libertarian without disregarding my nation
>>140581755 Nice LARPing you natsoc cuck. Unlike communists and natsocs we actually do care about people and don't want them to have shit living standards and die in the millions to sustain failed socialist policies.
>>140579860 Well here's on way to look at it: There's something like an ideal population size, for a given piece of land, for people to live prosperously. What that ideal size is - is subject to many determining factors (resources on the land, culture of the people, resources available through trade etc etc), so it by no means obvious just how many people you should have on a given piece of land - but we know the extremes!
We know that if a small number of people inhabit a large portion of land, increasing their population will provide a net benefit to their prosperity, this is where "wealth creation" comes into effect. (this is more or less the Early America model)
But we also know that if a very large number of people inhabit a given portion of land, increasing their population will lower the standard of living of the majority of the population (the "1%" will, in all likely hood, continue to prosper). This is evident in countries like China and India which have abhorrent living standards for the average citizen DUE TO OVERPOPULATION.
Now it is entirely possible that todays America has reached a comfortable middle ground and they are currently weighing the pros and cons of further immigration. Obviously further immigration will be beneficial to some (I'm looking at you corporations) but it will also have negative effects on others (the white working class) and what you are currently seeing in America, with the Trump phenomenon, is those separate classes wrestling for control over the country's borders.
>>140582017 to poorly quote the woman in the interview >should americans get priority over illegals when it comes to hiring >"no" >is it better to open a factory in america instead of china >"no" why would I support her statements? I'm not some ancapfag
>>140579857 Individual rights are the only rights that matter. A society that does not respect them will eventually fail. And I have a hard time thinking of any situation where there is an idiosyncracy. Even something like a chemical company dumping shit in the oceans can be resolved by thinking about individual rights. We have the science now that can show that dumping that shit affects individuals. So there is a way to mediate that.
>>140572624 No. You don't put parentheses around that name. You can put them around (((Ayn Rand))) though. She literally told Rothbard to divorce his wife because he married a Christian (and very probably because he married a non-Jew), after which Rothbard distanced himself from the Objectivists.
But you're right not to trust mainstream lolbertarians. Any lolbertarian who doesn't follow Hoppe is a pawn of the globalists.
>>140572898 Good libertarians believe in the nation and national identity, but not the nation state.
They think they'll live in a multicultural paradise where brown people toil in farms, mines, and dirty factories for a small pittance and in dangerous conditions. A world where the "job creators" will be revered as living gods, bestowing their blessings on the poor slobs they own like medieval serfs bound to the nobility and the land.
You know, instead of being overthrown, butchered and their wealth redistributed like history shows to be the almost inevitable outcome of a "multicultural paradise ".
>>140584347 Why would any self-respecting libertarian support the choices of a government that is actively enriching those it lets in, at the expense of those that already live in the area that they govern?
If you're anti-anarchocapitalism (and you're not a leftpol d/c shill), watch these two videos. They might change your perspective slightly. Realize that Hoppe is the de facto leader of the movement today.
>>140579931 What does not count is someone saying "whites are better than blacks". No one is harmed by that. Or, having more wealth than someone else is not aggression. Or, having better parents is not aggression. Now, saying "I'm going to kill you" is aggression. Maybe it's unclear how serious the person saying that is, but it's definitely aggression, unless it's clearly a joke. So that's why saying that is dangerous to the speaker. The speaker should understand that. Saying, "you are being deported because you are not a legal citizen" is not aggression if that's under the legal system in place. If you think that person is being aggressed and you cannot house that person on your property, maybe the system and its definition of property is the problem, and not the deportation itself.
>>140572173 I appreciate the lot of you 4chan guys feel empowered to join the rest of us in civil society now that papa bear Trump is telling ya it's okay. But let me send you a message. This is a blip(?). A temporary entafada(?). I know it feels good to have your worst instincts validated, but don't be fooled. Use this opportunity, now that you're out of your parent's basement, to meet a few people that aren't like you, that actually care about minorities.
>>140572726 what open-borders lolbertarians fail to realize if their precious open borders theories also imply that we would be recolonizing africa and making those vast tracts of land productive again. Third-worlders coming to the first world has very little to do with increasing "muh world gdp"
>>140582754 These are issues that work themselves out if there are no centralized currencies, and it's ok to discriminate. But, those things don't exist, so there are consequences to allowing these globalist ideas to be promulgated before governments are decentralized/dissolved. It's putting the cart before the horse.
>>140585046 Kill yourself. Not like commies have souls anyway. I'm "racist" precisely because I grew up around "minorities."
Actually, it was the South and I was the white minority. Niggers are a nightmare to be around. And I love you white kids in the heartland, but you'll never quite understand what it's like to be a minority among a verifiable subspecies.
>>140576175 >Whites won America by devine right? By that logic could we not say Muslims are moving in to take it by their devine right? This implies we have a devine right to prevent them from coming by with force if necessary, so by your own admission you should sit back and let us BTFO migrant boats
>>140586143 This is the issue where hardcore principled libertarians who recognize the reality of the situation butt heads with the squishy cultural hippie libertarians who think there is a way to incrementally make libertarian society by cozying up to the globalists. The principled understand there must be global anarchy, whereas the squishy think there can be a global libertarian government.
>>140577001 Keynesian economic brainlets also argue for government intervention because it somehow boosts the economy, they justify taking money from people and spending it on other things because they think the government somehow knows how to spend money better than people. Suffice to say if everybody has a different idea of what "boosts the economy" perhaps we should be skeptical of anyone advocating a policy to "boost the economy" because most likely they are just proposing you do what they wanted to do anyway.
>>140577311 >America used to have open borders You keeping using that word, I don't think it means what you think it means. When America had "open borders" everyone who was allowed to immigrate was from europe. I agree with you open borders between white countries would be a good thing. The EU might not have been perfect, but it was functional until they let in a bunch of muslim sandniggers.
>>140587389 They won't carry the torch of civilization. All already predicted.
"The Passing of The Great Race" (1916) -Madison Grant | https://archive.org/details/ThePassingOfTheGreatRace "The Decline of The West vol. I" (1918) -Oswald Spengler | https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.125133 "The Decline of The West Vol. II" (1923) -Oswald Spengler | https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.264078 "The Rising Tide of Color Against White World-Supremacy" (1920) -Dr. Lothrop Stoddard | https://archive.org/details/TheRisingTideOfColorAgainstWhiteWorld-Supremacy1920-Dr.LothropStoddard
>>140580413 what I find interesting about this is the blacks are at least aware of how the government fucks them. They often complain about the CIA starting the crack epidemic or some other shit like that, and at least they have the good sense to realize that the same entity that did that is probably not the best entity to be made bigger (now obviously they still want the gibs, but the fact that they have views similar to the asians despite being in the same economic category as hispanics means the blacks at least know something is up)
Also if the idea that economics influences all human decisions the Asians would vote like more extreme whites, and the blacks would vote like more extreme hispanics, but they don't so perhaps "muh everything is economics" is wrong.
>>140572624 Read the Betrayal of the American Right by Rothbard he explains wtf going on at the time and what they were doing joining with the "liberals" to be anti-war etc.
>>140572638 Hang on a sec, people are the market, the will of the market is the will of the people. wants/needs...and yeah you're right its not a racist ideology but its a framework from which people can have their subjective preferences which may be racist within and still live peacefully with people.
>>140572726 >open boarders part of Libertarianism That would not be a libertarian. That's a neocon masquerading as a libertarian. Classical libertarians are isolationist. Close the borders and retract from the world theatre.
>>140588818 Inaccurate. Start by reading "Common Sense" by Thomas Paine.
True libertarianism ONLY works in a society where the people are religious and morally upright, without the necessity of a government to mandate that morality. The more depraved and degenerate a society becomes, the more government is necessary. I understand that there are a number of pedophiles/leftists/etc scum that attempt to align themselves with libertarianism, but these people are exactly why we created government in the first place. Having no morality or conscience themselves, it becomes necessary for a common government to enforce one.
The only true, functioning libertarianism is naturally conservative by nature. This isn't well understood, because there is a massive amount of disinformation pushed on this point. "Libertarian" used to by synonymous with Protestant Christian. And the current shill-media goal seems to be of defining it economically and as atheism, nihilism, or some sort of political defense for advanced sociopathy.
Many of today's libertarians are fake or have an agenda.
>>140589361 I would honestly not care, if I were able to live long enough to outlast the impending collapse of the west. 99% of humans are not logical enough, nor smart enough, to live in a libertarian society.
>>140575310 Remember when Australia had all these Europeans like the Slavs coming in the 50's/60's fleeing communism that ended up helping build the country, founded successful farming communities in WA & brought a lot of highly skilled workers over to improve everyones lives?
Back then my grandparents needed a sponsor that guaranteed accomodation, employment, personal vouching etc. Today my little Korean mates come over here, again they need a sponsor, they need to have work & accomadation lined up beforehand, they pay for a visa, they pay full freight for study, pay taxes from the very first $1 earnt.
This form of normal migration through history has been great throughout history, the movement of labour, economic growth, sharing skilled workers between lands, letting labour flow where its needed/wanted.
I mean hell do you remember when the Chinese helped build the rails in the US? There is merit to the idea that sometimes westerners dont want to do certain jobs, the Chinese were willing to risk blowing themselves up to work in the west. There are jobs cheapos are willing to do that Aussies cbf doing like seasonal fruit picking for some reason. (honestly aussies just cant handle being in a squat position for 8 hours but Koreans are built for that shit).
Why all the distrust for economics and economic history? It's not dehumanizing as people make it out.
>>140590348 >America was like this pre WWII. The country went by what was called the Washington doctrine. Truman shredded it and created what is call the Truman doctrine. Google it, and your welcome. All of the West was like this 100 years ago. It failed because the population allowed subversion and destruction of nations to occur. I understand what libertarianism believes in, it is just self destructive.
>>140590785 >It failed No it didn't, we were forced into it to protect the Jews my blue pilled friend. Everything this country does internationally benefits Israel. We broke our one major rule. We got caught up in foreign entanglements. For the past 80 years we been at war or engaging in proxy wars.
>>140590785 Libertarianism isn't the same thing as anarchy. It's a more focused vision of what government should do.
Every individual gives up some of their property to ensure the security of the group. We call this government/the public sector. Security being the first and foremost duty of a government, any government that lets in undesirables or fails to protect the nation's borders, is a government remiss of its natural obligations.
In terms of war, it doesn't mean a perpetual Monroe Doctrine. Sometimes, it means you have to kill Barbary Mohammedan scum.
There's a reason why 19th century libertarians tended to be Nativists, Know-Nothings, and highly protectionist. Original libertarianism would be far more nationalist than neo-conservatism/neo-liberalism. And more moral, honest, diligent, and internally sustainable as well.
>>140591894 >No it didn't, we were forced into it to protect the Jews my blue pilled friend. Everything this country does internationally benefits Israel. We broke our one major rule. We got caught up in foreign entanglements. For the past 80 years we been at war or engaging in proxy wars. Yes. Jews, Jews, Jews. Never the white population or corporations who see their societies degenerating and their nations destroyed, and do not care. Liberalism failed.
Westerners are at the stage where labour jobs are being eaten by automation, low skilled immigration is no longer needed nor beneficial.
While we're on the subject of Australia; look at the housing prices! - Driven by the increased demand of mass immigration. No "benefit" which comes from low skilled immigrants is going to offset that huge hike "cost of living".
>>140592330 >cannot survive without heavy state involvement Well you have your wish. We must be living in a utopia right now. For some reason, the heavy-handed state no longer performs the basic purpose and function of government.
Need I remind you that America spent most of its existence as a non-interventionist, libertarian nation that was predominantly lead by self-sufficient pioneers, was white, prosperous, and still had a strong, modern military.
There are certain groups that entered this nation with a chip on their shoulder in the late 19th century and early 20th century, who should never have been allowed in. And before the Hart-Celler Act, they wouldn't have. And now the government conducts its crimes against its own citizenry with impunity, precisely because it is too big.
>>140593135 >Corporations Are a product of WW2. They were meant only to help with war production and than be dismantled. Thanks to Truman they were allowed to keep existing. They should have been dismantled. You are confusing free market with capitalism. Libertarians love the free market. Only a Ignoramus doesn't understand there is a huge difference between the two.
>>140593700 >Well you have your wish. We must be living in a utopia right now. For some reason, the heavy-handed state no longer performs the basic purpose and function of government. Yeah, the consequences of liberalism. That is exactly what I am asking for.
>Need I remind you that America spent most of its existence as a non-interventionist, libertarian nation that was predominantly lead by self-sufficient pioneers, was white, prosperous, and still had a strong, modern military. wut? We fought three wars against foreign powers (one explicitly imperialist) in the 19th century, and almost too many to count in the 20th century. That is called "propaganda."
>There are certain groups that entered this nation with a chip on their shoulder in the late 19th century and early 20th century, who should never have been allowed in. And before the Hart-Celler Act, they wouldn't have. Liberalism allowed that to happen.
>And now the government conducts its crimes against its own citizenry with impunity, precisely because it is too big. Government (elites) has never trusted the citizens, ever. Democracy is a scam.
>>140594184 >Corporations are a product of WW2 >They were meant only to help with war production and than be dismantled. Do you know what a corporation even is? I did not know Standard Oil was formed in the 1940s >You are confusing free market with capitalism. Libertarians love the free market. Only a Ignoramus doesn't understand there is a huge difference between the two. Says the person who does not even know what a corporation is. Free market is an allocation of goods. Capitalism is according to definition private ownership of means of production. The words are often used interchangeably and you do not seem to be somebody with extensive knowledge of business (or ideologies), so I did not think it mattered
>>140592330 Yuri Bezmenov did not explain why Libertarianism needs heavy state involvement wtf.
>>140593027 You're right we are in a different situation today. Problem I see is an inflexible labour market, too many barriers to entry for new businesses which means we can't absorb , adapt & make use of surplus labour. I can't say whether lots of people going to one place is good but I do know that with a proper economy & no welfare state immigration becomes much more serious.
Like I said in that post even today you have koreans that have to have sponsors, pay for visas, have jobs lined up doing things aussies dont want to do and pay tax from $1 onwards. So in their case it probably is beneficial & I don't think they're taking jobs away. Ridiculous if you think about it, there should never be a shortage of jobs there's always something that could be done if we were free to do it.
On Australia I don't see immigration as the cause for house prices. For starters the net immigration levels could hardly be called "mass" they're actually pretty damn low, again the lack of supply has an obvious culprit. Not sure about net benefit vs cost of living, naturally cheaper labour would reduce the cost of the goods produced, housing prices need to come down but thats another issue altogether.
Funnily enough it's not Syrians, or Chinese or anything that represent our biggest immigration/job issues. It's actually Kiwi's, they can come over here en masse (they're our biggest migration demographics), they don't have to go through the same hoops as every other foreigner, they go for the jobs our unskilled citizens want and they are driving up the cost of rent etc by flooding into our last few affordable suburbs. Don't even need closed borders to fix that, just need to make them subject to the same standards the Chinese/Koreans are and problem solved.
>>140594758 >Yuri Bezmenov did not explain why Libertarianism needs heavy state involvement wtf. He said that Western democracies are open to subversion. They allow dangerous ideologies and groups to fester. Libertarianism by definition would allow them to fester.
>>140594925 Except Libertarianism isn't necessarily democratic , Democracy is communism light in all seriousness. Whether freedom of information would allow bad ideas to fester is one thing but to say Liberty needs heavy state involvement is probably a bad choice of words. Unless you mean needs the state to protect it from this subversive information?
It's a pretty big issue for the world as a whole if you think about it, how do you stop people from adopting bad ideas? Does trying to ban something just make it more appealing? Does leaving it open to criticism allow it to be dismantled before it takes hold? Or are we just too emotional as creatures to live in a world based on logic & reason?
It's pretty important to trace the subversion as it happened. I know as one example that idiot lefties were swayed by Marxists beliefs that fed their envy so in my country they were extremely active in sending literature to every profession & did free seminars for Unions etc to infect people with their propaganda. They have the time for activism while getting welfare bucks, how do we get active as well?
>>140594488 You have a lot to learn still. There are a lot of little details your missing. You have pieces but not the whole puzzle. Laws were enacted to bust up corporations. Than they were repealed. I would give you the information, but you can go fuck yourself for being a dick head. I find it rather very amusing how you think you know it all, Eventually it will lead to a very awkward situation in public when someone publicly destroys you. Insulting cock sucker.
>>140595752 >You have a lot to learn still. About what? >There are a lot of little details your missing. You have pieces but not the whole puzzle. Laws were enacted to bust up corporations. Than they were repealed. Officially. Do you think the Rockefellers are not still in control of Exxon? Anyway, liberalism allowed those laws to be repealed. >I would give you the information, but you can go fuck yourself for being a dick head. Lol. Why don't you try to understand what liberalism is teaching economically, and then look at what happened to countries with unrestricted free markets >I find it rather very amusing how you think you know it all, Never said I did. I just pointed out that you do not know what a corporation is (a lemonade stand can be one), or what libertarianism teaches. >Eventually it will lead to a very awkward situation in public when someone publicly destroys you. Insulting cock sucker. In what? Most people don't sperg out over politics in public.
>>140595791 >Can you be more specific? Liberalism (ignore American mainstream politics) is the belief in freedoms, equality, and liberty. If you look up classical liberalism, it very similar to what libertarians believe. Liberalism allows nations to be destroyed because the population either wants it (Europe) or does not care (United States).
>Doesn't matter who those cancer cells trust. It only takes a minority of us to spread the truth. Pic related. The masses have never been in control of this country. Democracy has always been a scam. It is two groups of elites competing for power.
>>140595752 You're 99% right. Our laws and civic institutions were systematically undermined and subverted. But genuine idiots are naturally convinced of their infallibility. You don't have to make it drink, but you have to try leading the horse to water.
>>140596133 >liberalism Libertarians are not liberals. You better learn the difference. I never said I supported liberalism. You made way to many assumptions. Of course the Rockefellers still run Exxon. They are family of con artists. They figured out a way to conceal it. Same way the Rothschilds have their fingers in everything.
>>140594758 Australia has one of the highest rates of immigration, per capita, in the civilized world. Yes that has a large effect on housing prices.
>Like I said in that post even today you have koreans that have to have sponsors, pay for visas, have jobs lined up doing things aussies dont want to do and pay tax from $1 onwards. So in their case it probably is beneficial & I don't think they're taking jobs away. Ridiculous if you think about it, there should never be a shortage of jobs there's always something that could be done if we were free to do it. If the demand for these jobs is not satiated (by Koreans) then the free market would dictate that the wages would have to increase, applying upward pressure to all wages. Satiating the demand applies downward pressure to wages. Remember how everyones always complaining about wages being stagnate despite inflation?
>>140596487 >equality Equality before the law. Not a single founder believed people were identical. >liberty Yes. Like the liberty to worship God, and freely observe that subsaharan blacks exist as a subspecies of homo sapiens. I fail to see what's wrong with classical liberalism. Ostensibly, the enemy can subvert anything--including anti-democratic monarchies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_Jew).
You make it, and the Synagogue of Satan will invariably pervert it. It's the way of the world.
>two groups of elites competing The competition is an illusion. "Elites" are mammonists. Ultimately, they serve one master: satan.
>>140597612 >Libertarians are not liberal LIBertarians are not LIBerals? Yes they are, just old school ones. >You better learn the difference. There is no difference >I never said I supported liberalism You are defending LIBertarianism. I understand your ideology, I am just saying that it would not function without heavy state involvement (breaking up monopolies, economic protectionism, not allowing degeneracies, etc). This kind of defeats the purpose of libertarianism as the government will have to be powerful, so the "freedoms" become privileges, not rights.
>>140598515 I understand that. But, libertarianism would need to be protectionist, break up monopolies, prevent cartels, have a strong military to defend the nation, and stop degeneracies in order for the society to remain libertarian. A government could not be limited and fulfill these would not be limited at all. As a result, these "freedoms" would be privileges.
>>140598739 Protectionist how? >A government could not be limited and fulfill these What makes you think that? You take the gov't we currently have, subtract a few non-militaristic agencies, and you're there. Pre-FDR US had it.
>>140599102 >Protectionist how? Can't let a company fire their employees to hire pajeet code monkeys or chink slaves. In free markets, monopolies and cartels will form. Either they will become more powerful than the government, or the government will break them up. >What makes you think that? You take the gov't we currently have, subtract a few non-militaristic agencies, and you're there. Pre-FDR US had it. The militarism is not our only problem. The creation of .a permanent underclass is.
>>140597616 > If the demand for these jobs is not satiated (by Koreans) then the free market would dictate that the wages would have to increase True, the inverse is also possible with prices though. It shouldn't be an issue if everything wasn't so restricted. Honestly the biggest factor for the wage issue imo is that the only ones that have had I guess you could say "net job growth" are corporations. By that I mean the number of businesses today has pretty much stagnated over the last 10-20 which is really depressing, so the jobs that are added just come from mostly the same businesses expanding, more Coles, more mines openning etc. Obviously there's a lot of factors that go into it but when I saw the business stats it was pretty shocking even for a Libertarian that assumed it was bad.
> Australia has one of the highest rates of immigration, per capita This is true, I don't know how 0.7% is supposed to be call "mass" but I was mistaken I thought the net figure was around 80,000 not 180,000. I don't know what i have against kiwis and their fucking cross country border policies but how 600,000 could have settled here, the equivalent of around 12% of their population is fuckin ridiculous.
With all the Brits, Kiwis, Chinese etc coming here I wonder what this country would look like with a free market economy particularly around land use & development.
>>140599546 >Pre-FDR US had it. Pre-FDR US did have it. But, big business, Jews and other elite/government, etc brought the West down through the system of liberalism. If the government were to stop it, it would not truly be a libertarian society.
>>140599737 >I don't know how 0.7% is supposed to be call "mass" Is that per year? If so, in 40 years, that is 28% of your population. That is assuming the native population and immigrant populations have no growth
>>140599546 Thank you. You can totally allow companies to hire pajeets and such. More profits for the American company. The job loss is short term while our guys find new work, or get the education to outperform the foreigners. Or, without minimum wage laws, simply take the lower wage.
I understand the necessity of anti-monopoly laws, though.
What's the permanent underclass if you don't mind?
>>140599764 >liberalism I disagree, they brought it down with leftism, not classic liberalism. New-age liberals would never have allowed pre-FDR society to exist with its racist cartoons, dangerous cars, and working children.
>>140600134 >You can totally allow companies to hire pajeets and such. Then libertarianism is not compatible with nationalism. >More profits for the American company. Yes, just for the top guys >The job loss is short term while our guys find new work, or get the education to outperform the foreigners. They can't compete with someone who will work for 1/3 the wage >Or, without minimum wage laws, simply take the lower wage. A race to the bottom >What's the permanent underclass if you don't mind? The real reason for mass migration. If you flood the job market with 50 million more people, wages will go down. This is why big businesses want more immigration. >I disagree, they brought it down with leftism, not classic liberalism. Classical liberalism through democracy allowed modern day leftism to form political movements. >New-age liberals would never have allowed pre-FDR society to exist with its racist cartoons, dangerous cars, and working children. Yeah, all that tranny and fag stuff would not be allowed. Socialism has been around though since before FDR was born. It was gradual, but foreseeable.
>>140600874 A "libertarian" who is too lazy to actually work in the free market he loves so much is one of the rejects of society, okay? That's why the republicans are such losers, they're the rejects of society that couldn't lift their asses and work. The rest of republicans and libertarians are hard workers.
Unlike the democrats who are all losers and rejects in the first place
>>140600704 There's no such thing as profits "just for the top guys". Someone has to build the yachts. Working for a lower wage isn't a race to the bottom, it's a race to the true value of your work - and what's more is it's negotiable in a free market. That doesn't sound nice at first but consider a company that was forced to pay burger flippers the same amount as soldiers. A fall in the wage of the burger flipper is an approach to a sensible value.
Nationalism can inspire customers to purchase from a guy that hires only American. Employee efficiency - tied to employee happiness and health - can inspire an owner to raise his wages. And companies can afford that in a free market - see Gerald Ford.
>Classical liberalism through democracy allowed modern day leftism to form political movements. Leftism itself wasn't birthed in libertarianism but authoritarianism. It exploded under the Tzar. I agree that democracy - just one aspect of the libertarian society - facilitated it's growth. But to reiterate my point about "old america", we've had a system to challenge that sort of populism that's been working fine for some time. The electoral college.
>>140578595 Now what you're saying makes sense. And I agree with you. However the US has a major problem with what we've already imported. Also with the amount of social services. It's not feasable to be pro immigration the way the system is right now. The only way that we could get to something workable is to just shut our borders for the time being until we can work out this issue.
What isn't correct is the anti American sentiment.
When a business is based in America and has all the benefits of living in America and or using the American system it is obligated or should be forced/mandated to priotize American interests/hire Americans before accepting from another country. Unless the person can prove they're a larger asset/better/stronger employee.
>>140600004 True. So around 300,000 births or 1.25%, 0.7% immigration & deaths at around 0.65%. Though that is still with a 1.8 birth rate so I wonder when that starts to weigh on those figures but in that perspective it's pretty messed up.
Open boarder libertarians are the biggest kike suckers that fell for the biggest kike trick. Pathetic. I hope all of them have a family member raped and murdered by an immigrant while they have to watch.
>>140572173 Most libertarians are very leftwing socially speaking. They are basically socialists that like weed and sometimes guns. inb4 not all libertarians and the ones on /pol/ are right wing. I know. I'm talking about the average libertarians, not the /pol/ ones
>>140580234 It's not that libertarians don't care about things outside of the market, it's just that libertarians don't think that it should be enforced by the government. The threat of force shouldn't be applied to people because you disagree with them culturally. Why should what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home invoke government force?
>>140610979 Did reason say bake that cake? Reason backed Gary Johnson, but they didn't say he was a perfect candidate. They said the perfect is the enemy of the good in literally their most recent video
>>140576159 >jobs [would be] taken by low skilled immigrants thats not how markets work you little shit. employers have a direct incentive to hire the most qualified worker for a given wage. I sincerely doubt Ronaldo, who doesn't bathe regularly and speaks broken English at best is any threat to a native citizen in a first-world country. It's no different than stating that the rising amount of homeless junkies are a "threat" to Aerospace Engineers. It could be definitely be argued that he is a net drain on society when you factor in social security, but thats a different story. I think we should cut the problem off at the source and get rid of the gibsmedats, thereby disincentivizing mass emigration in the first place.
>downwards pressure on wages Newton's Third Law applies to markets as well. While employers are trying to maximize profit, so too are employees. Don't start your class warfare shit here nigga.
>>140611418 She's not. If she isn't Jewish I'm pretty sure someone could could change her opinion on this. All these libertarians are assuming that all people's political leanings are fluid and that it's not a fixed thing that blacks & Latinos vote leftist.
>>140582754 >is it better to open a factory in america instead of china >>"no" >why would I support her statements? I'm not some ancapfag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage This is econ 102 stuff. Not every factory should be in the United States.
>>140574087 >>140574312 Honest question, what's wrong with Reason? Everything I've read from it has been ideologically consistent, and relatively well written. The Libertarian Party, and bleeding heart libertarians are closet leftists tho.
>>140611743 >While employers are trying to maximize profit, so too are employees
If you had studied actual economics and not meme economics at mises.org you would know that high rates of immigration increase the supply of labour and decrease the capital stock per worker raising the share of profits relative to wages. More labor intensive economy means lower wages and living condition for all not just the workers directly competing with the brown masses of immigrants.
>>140612029 Then why does the image say "at least I have the Constitution"? if the country still has the Constitution, rule of law and people are sent to prison for breaking the law then what's the problem?
>>140587007 >muh based Bomber Enjoy your nigger dating Prince, Somali minister of immigration, chinks, diversity and all that shit >autism Said the jingoistic Anglo - a default good goy and grade A Untermensch. Germanics are far more social than all races on the British Isles bar the Irish
>>140612278 Because in order to truly 'have' a constitution you have to have a population that believes in it. The American constitution was the product of Anglo-Saxon traditions and customs, which do not resonate with most of the non-white world.
>>140612778 Because most people don't even bother to think about concepts like economics and go purely off of what makes them feel good. Social science research has indicated that they're less emotion driven than both liberals and conservatives.
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