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Is a hatchet worth the extra weight when backpacking?

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Is a hatchet worth the extra weight when backpacking?
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>>606615
No, Sven saw. Break your tinder, chump.
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>>606615
>mfw I just got the 6 sven saws (vintage, still in package, american made) I picked up at a thrift shop in Missouri this summer for next to nothing each, in the mail
>looking at a pile of sven saws

wut do?
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>>606653
Ebay that shit or sell it to me.
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I like having one on extended trips; it doesn't cut as well as a saw but it cuts better than a knife, is less fragile and also makes a pretty good blunt instrument if you should need one.
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>>606653
>http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/72771128/terror-raids-in-australia-after-fatal-shooting-in-sydney
Get another one, then you'll have seven sven saws
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>>606653
Where? I'm in Gainsville and could use some.
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Absolutely not.

The only reason I can imagine having a fire is if you live in the northern part of the continent during winter and night is 10+ hours long.
In that case you are kinda forced to be awake after dark and a fire would be nice.

However, I live in Wisconsin and haven't wanted or used a fire backpacking or hunting in November or March. Maybe if you live in Canada or Alaska but then you are contesting with the snow for dry wood. So this scenario seems far fetched and retarded.

The correct answer is absolutely not.
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>>606653

Stop listing "American Made" as some kind of meaningful bonus?

Sounds cool though, post pics of your saw heap!
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>>606706
Confirmed for liking disposable chink goods
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btw. excelent knife, one of realy best regularly available around. functionality, mateirals, design, size. own one and cant be much better.
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>>606615
perhaps

a hatchet (or axe) is far and away the most valuable overall single piece of equipment you could have in a survival situation

is that worth the weight? that's for you to judge
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Depends.

Where and when are you backpacking.

Need a fire during cold weather? Sure.

Get one that weighs a pound.
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>>606615
if you intend to have big fires and build anything, yes
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>>606691
I'm in Oregon. I was in Missouri beginning of summer after driving down from Wisconsin to check out the Mark Twain forest. It sucks, by the way. Found the saws in Steelville. The guy that owned the shop said that the guy that brings them in on consignment has a fuckton of them. Got 'em for 5 bucks a piece.

I've read a little online and apparently the "made in minnesota" ones are the highest quality and things have declined recently since they're not made there any more. I left them in Wisconsin cause I didn't want to check bags on the plane and they just got sent to me finally.

Also, Wisconsinite telling anyone about being /out/. Lol.

Double also, I roll with a saw, a knife, and a hatchet. Saws weigh nothing, knives weigh nothing, and the little bit of weight added by a hatchet is always word it. I carry a 28" axe and it's useful in 9 million ways.
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>>606615
Just buy a cheap one and take it /out/ a few times and figure out whether it was worth it or not. Only you can answer the question you asked. If you end up not liking it for /out/ then you have a new tool for around the yard. Alternatively you could sell it, or gift it to someone that wants/needs one.
I use a marbles camp axe, it's right around 2lbs and I enjoy having the option even if I don't use it every time I go out. I picked it up on sale for $20, I see them around from $25 - $35.
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>>606615
Between my BK2 and Bahco Laplander I don't really see the point.
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>>606859
This is me. Except, I bring my 16 as well.
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>>606615

it depends on where you live. In WA in my area, a small hatchet with a 19 inch handle is worth it's weight in gold.
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>>606859
Bahco Laplander looks awesome. Just bought one.
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>>606859
>>607223
>Bahco Laplander

kinda off topic but anyone would have recommendation for a good saw to put on a stick to prune high branches ?
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>>607236
>You mean like a pruning saw?

Yes, I recommend a pruning saw.
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>>607236
Get a silky saw blade

http://www.silkysaws.com/Silky_Saws/ZUBAT-Hand-Saws/Blade-Only-for-Silky-ZUBAT-300#sthash.8AK503GW.dpbs

Not sure what one exactly to get, but my buddy uses 'em and they rip through branches
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>>606615
Yes, I think so. I've never been in a situation where I regretted having one, but I've been in situations where I regretted not having one.
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>>606615
i've bought this one years ago and it served me pretty well so far.
but to be honest i don't really need it but it can be useful.
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>>607246
yeaaaah was kinda asking for particular model/brands

>>607257
thanks ! i was actually looking for the name of "that japanese brand". and dang they better be good for the price

i think someone
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It's so fucking simple.
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>>607309
in mspaint maybe
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>>607319

You can pick shit from the ground, you can pry bark from a tree, you can break shit with stones...

But you'd had to bring a good knife, not some faggot mora
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>>607319
Breaking a stick or log using two trees isn't simple? There are less physics involved than a hatchet or a saw, and it requires less energy. Metal tools are overrated for camping.
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>>607342
You would be hard pressed to find 2 trees that are close enough together to break small enough firewood. I like my peices to be less than 2' long
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>>607344
I don't think you understand the physics behind breaking logs with a tree.
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>>607344
>find two saplings that are close enough together
>place a piece of seasoned deadfall between tem like that
>snap trunk of rearward sapling because you're attempting to break a fulcrum like a retard and thats how levers work at applying mechanical advantage

>>606615
depends where you are, what you're doing, and if you are allowed to cut wood/even have a fire
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>>607349
The torque to break that 2' peice in the second example would be huge. Never gonna happen
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>>606615
>Is a hatchet worth the extra weight
It is not. A good strong batoning knife is all you need, and possibly a Mora for fine work.

>>607349
Very bad illustration, however if you have a saw, an axe or a big knife, making even the smallest cut to the outer side makes breaking easier.
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>>607354
What are you even talking about? I literally do this all of the time.
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>>607408
Must be weak branches, a 4" dia solid peice is not going to break like that with less effort than hacking with a hatchet
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>>607354
this is right

>>607408
not with such a small lever you don't.

I've attempted this lots of times. Without tools propping it up on one end and stamping on the middle is so much more effective than this shitty convoluted method.

having said all that, split wood burns better. i just bought an SA Wetterlings Bushman Axe and it's fucking great.
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>>607422
propping it up on one end, by the way, can be done with your hand. literlaly hold one end with the other on the floor, bring one foot up to rest on the middle, and slowly shift your weight to that foot. it works.

and with bits that aren't too thick, just smack them in the middle against trees really hard like a baseball bat
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>>607419
I would actually say 4" is the max width I can comfortably break a 2' piece of dry ponderosa actually, and is about ideal for firewood. I wouldn't mess with anything thicker. I think you might be saying 4" while envisioning something more like 6". Good firewood for me is about 3-5" thick and 3' long, but honestly I don't even mess with breaking it up a lot of the time and just burn 5-6' pieces in half before shoving the two halves in.
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>>607422
>I've attempted this lots of times.
I really get the feeling that people in this thread have not actually attempted this. I am not kidding at all when I say that I do this all of the time without a problem, and I camp a lot. I don't like metal tools and this is how I break up my wood. I'm not even some crazy buff guy. I'm not sure why you're all denying this tried and true ancient method of making firewood, is it just being really into tools or something?
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>>607429
i think everyone is talking about different kind of woods

you're obviously talking about dead dried up wood which you can indeed break that way. hatchet would still be useful to split it but non vital.
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>>607435
Living wood isn't good for firewood for a variety of reasons though, ishygddt.
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>>607429
Ill give it a go but i seriously doubt itll work. Maybe were you are the type of trees around have softer wood but ill be surprised if i can break decent peices with this method. Ill probably do it on wood after i saw it so i dont have to saw as long but for untouched stuff im sceptical

I am into buying quality tools ill admit but only the necessary ones
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>>607439
i was just talking about the breaking technique.

a hatchet is still useful for firewood if your dead tree is still standing, or the branches still attached to the fallen trunk. also, again, to split.

it is useful for all other purposes you would have with wood, living or dead, which depending on the situation, could be numerous.

tl;dr depends on the situation. i like to have one.
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>>607512
also, forgot to mention your technique of breaking, even if you don't realize it, is potentially pretty dangerous out in the wild. admitetly, using a hatchet is too. just saying.
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"Hike your own goddamn hike" Depends on your what you are trying to accomplish outdoors. A hunter and an Appalachian thru hiker have very different objectives, thus different gear. If you're hiking a multi-day trail I don't recommend an axe, infact depending on the climate you may only want a folder (though I simply prefer 4"-6" fixed blade, weight vs capability wise).

If you're hunting from a base camp though, especially in the North during opening day, an axe or hatchet can be an invaluable tool. Breaking branches between 2 trees, batoning, beaver chewing, bending and slicing, etc are all great things to know how to do and I have done all of these myself in confidence.

But if you can take the weight, what's a more effective tool for processing firewood? A felling axe or a Mora? Obviously if weight isn't as important you choose the equipment accordingly that you prefer. For me, usually my old Marttini knife and my Estwing 14in hatchet or Bahco/Corona folding saw. Occasionally a Cold Steel SRK or an Ontario SP8(which is in my truck 'urvryday), RAK, or USAF knife will replace those.

It's all about enjoying the recreation after all.
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>>606615
What kinda backpacking trip are you going on?
What biome are you backpacking through?
What are the rules/regulations (if any) where you are backpacking?

Depending on your answers then a shovel/small machete/big knife/folding saw/rape whistle might be more appropriate
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>>607361
how is a strong batoning knife any lighter or any more versatile than a good light hatchet tho?
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>>606712
Confirmed for being an ignorant and sheltered racist and not realizing American made products are in most cases of an inferior quality.
The blind patriotism in your country gets in the way of common sense.
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>>607429
People seem to want this shit to be so much harder than it is, I guess so they feel like master survivalists after they manage to make a fire with modern technology? I don't know. Making a fire just isn't that hard, even if it's wet.
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If youre building something substantial and your stay is extended then absolutely and then some, however a big knife is fine for minor building and camping
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>>609556
>I don't know why people are being such pretentious poofters
>proceeds to be the biggest poofter in the thread
You unironically believe in crystal power, don't you?
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>>609580
What the hell are you talking about?
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>>609541
I'm not American and I buy American-made goods over Chinese, even if they are twice the price because they're better and have great warranties.

They're going to get cheaper, too. Thank fuck for the TPP.

>Confirmed for being a recalcitrant fool

>>606615

It is if you use it.
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>>609611
Well since you're clearly Australian, why aren't you buying Australian made? Which is actual good quality.
Yeah thank fuck for the TPP screwing Australian manufacturing even further. Soon we will do nothing but serve people coffee.
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>>606615
I was thinking this today. I get more function out of my leatherman + hatchet, than with my knife
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>>609541
Do you actually believe that Chinese goods are better? I'm American but I have a Swedish axe. It's cash. I prefer to pay more for items that are built to last. For disposable shit like t-shirts and electronics I don't really give a fuck.
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>>609663
No I don't think Chinese is necessarily better. (also I'm not >>606706 just in case you thought I was)
But Chinese quality has improved a lot from 20 years ago and is perfectly acceptable today in most cases. I still wouldn't touch a Chinese car, but I also wouldn't touch an American one. Remember when the world ridiculed Japan for the quality of their goods?

I too prefer goods built to last. I'm not saying all American stuff is shit. But there are things they do good, and things they do bad. Just because it says "Made in USA" doesn't mean it's good, and just because it says made in somewhere else doesn't mean it's bad - which is the mentality i see in Americans pretty often.
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for the outdoor stuff I do, hatchet is not worth it, but boys ax / woodsmans ax is. more functionality but not a ton more weight
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>>609718
Quality is based primarily on the manufacturer but having an well-educated and motivated workforce helps.
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>>607429
>>607451
it's all about the leverage even a tiny guy can break logs with the proper leverage

i don't usually bother breaking logs i get fallen trees i grab them carry them to the campsite and slowly push them into the fire (lazy mans fire)

it feels very manly when you walk with an entire tree on your shoulders even tho dry pine doesn't weight a lot
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>>609541
Because I want to see my fellow countrymen employed?

Because I don't support communist countries?

>Inb4 Taiwan = china. It doesn't.

I'm a mechanic.
I buy tools form Taiwan all the time. They're usually inexpensive. But the quality isn't quite up to the better US manufacturers yet. Still good enough for most jobs. And if I loose it or break it's not a big deal.
Now my SnapOn tools almost never break. But cost and arm and a leg to replace.

But I don't buy anything made in china!
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>>609798
Heh, exactly the same way I approach it, when China nuts up and privatises it's industry, I'll be happy to buy off them
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>>609798
>>609803
Jesus. Most people got over yellow peril 50 years ago.

Communism isn't the root of all evil, champs. Believe it or not, capitalism hasn't turned out so great either. You know climate change? Christ I hope you're not so stupid that you deny climate change. The GFC? Where half of your great country lost their jobs and homes? Capitalism basically kicked that all off.
Anyway this is getting very /pol/ now so that's enough

FWIW, I brought my hatchet camping once and used it to bang in tent pegs. I could've used a rock for that. I say bring a saw.
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>>607349

Strength fuel can't melt tree beams
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>>609808
>You know climate change?
Yes, but nothing is going to stop it, not even communism. If you think we stop using fossil fuels, keep dreaming. It would cost next to nothing to stop cutting down the Amazon, yet we fail to do it. Obama does nothing, the China does nothing, the EU does nothing and the UN does nothing. The climate might very well turn back once all the fuel is spent and there are no planes on the sky, but the Amazon will take hundreds of millions of years to grow back.

As for capitalism I think it works well as long as it's under control. In US and EU it's not and that's why everything is made in China. The China is even worse and that's why there's slavery and they're literally making their country uninhabitable.

Having governmental quality control would solve all these problems, but how can we expect our government to set quality standards if we don't set them ourself?

>TL;DR? Buy a batoning knife and use either the baton or a rock to bang tent pegs.
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>>609808
So much butthurt for something so small.
>Where half of your great country lost their jobs and homes?
Not American
>Communism isn't the root of all evil, champs
Couldn't care less about communism
>The GFC?
largely unaffected(Country)
>Capitalism basically kicked that all off.
Ohh, really, thanks for that captain obvious
>Jesus. Most people got over yellow peril 50 years ago.
I'm pretty sure all the other Asian countries I buy off would also be yellow according to your good self, difference is they play on an even footing, private industry trading with private industry, China needs to step into the first world and in the not to distant they're not going to have a choice with the middle class they're birthing.

You might be happy to buy from China, congratulations, I buy from China regularly myself but if there's an option for locally made goods and I can afford them, I'll pick them 100% of the time.

As for this comment
>capitalism hasn't turned out so great either
Bullshit, it might not be perfect but it's the only thing in the last few millennia which has put stepping stones between the obscenely rich/powerful and the legitimately powerless.

>My China price hatchet
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>>606705
>The only reason I can imagine having a fire is if you live in the northern part of the continent during winter and night is 10+ hours long.
Spotted the casual. You've never camped longer than the amount of water you can carry provides, or further away than walking distance from a source of clean, fresh water.
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>>609541
What few tools worthy of being called such that are still produced in the US are generally excellent, but that quality comes with an equally impressive price tag.
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>>606671
>is less fragile
you mean virtually indestructible unless you hit stone with it
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>>609859

>stepping stones between the obscenely rich/powerful and the legitimately powerless

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-32824770
http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-record-gap-between-rich-and-poor-2015-5?IR=T
http://www.salary.com/why-the-gap-between-rich-poor-is-widening/

Cool story, Bro.
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>>609637
I'm not Australian but I do buy Australian when I can. Again, generally good quality but I think sometimes Aussie-made stuff isn't designed or marketed as well simply because it's not produced in huge volumes by huge companies.

>>609718
I think the real question is can Chinese companies make goods with independent quality standards? To what degree does quality control by non-Chinese companies influence the quality of the outputs of Chinese factories?

>>609798
Mah nigga. Slowly trying to replace all my 'decent' quality Taiwanese tools with god-tier SnapOn and Stahlwille

Good point too; buying a PRC-made product is supporting Communism.

>>609808
Capitalism might not be perfect, but communism is fucked up. Also, you seem to confuse fiat currency and our banking systems with Capitalism. They're not the same. And climate change is a con, too.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/15/no_sea_level_danger_from_antarctic_this_century_even_if_all_coal_and_oil_burned/

>>610165
Inequality is the result of social welfare.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XooUY4p4RaY

I own a Helko hatchet, a Fiskars X5 and a Cold Steel Trail Hawk. I've found that the only one worth carrying is the X5 because it's very effective for the weight. The Trail Hawk is similar weight and less effective and the Helko hatchet is significantly heavier for virtually no extra utility. Why is the X5 not more popular on /out/?
>>
>>610231
>Climate change is a con and inequality is caused by social welfare

Yeah. You're a huge fucking idiot. Bye.
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