Not only first hearing about this on breaking news, but also questioning the situation in my American Gov. class, as we know two days ago, North Korea test-launched two hydrogen bombs.
One being 8X weaker than the ones dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and another being, 8X STRONGER then those previously listed.
A North Korean Diplomat named these test as a sneak peek to 'gift packages the US will soon receive' around two hours ago.
Though many are pushing on military action for this situation, Jon Wolfsthal a former member of Obama's NSC believes that we shouldn't take action until we are assured that we can deplete all of North Korea's nuclear weapons. If not we would be getting a nuclear response.
What are your guy's inputs on the situation?
>the mountain they are testing these on is bout to collapse
>saki bomb!
Sources:
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/09/03/548262043/here-are-the-facts-about-north-koreas-nuclear-test
https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/world/2017/09/05/north-korea-mountain-used-as-nuclear-test-site-at-risk-collapsing-chinese-scientist-says.amp.html
Edit: Mountain crumbling is important for to radiation exposure to nearby lands.
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>>175342
Keep pressing them and don't back down. If we try to appease them it will only make the US look weak and allow North Korea to stockpile more nukes. The time to act was unfortunately a decade ago, but if we don't do something now we will be stuck in a cycle of appeasement with an increasingly deranged nation.
>>175349
Fuck off Pentagon shill. Mao's China during the chaos of the Cultural Revolution got nuclear weapons, and despite the dubious reliability of the PRC's chain of command at the time, the US did not intervene. Face it, America's only sane option at this point is to take the same path it did with China - gradual deescalation through the normalization of relations, followed by steady growth in trade.
>>175351
China, to the best of knowledge, was not actively threatening the US with nukes. They also had the constant threat of USSR nearby, which became increasingly hostile after China got nukes over a border dispute. This drew their attention away from the US and opened the door for diplomacy under Richard Nixon.
Unlike China, North Korea has built its identity on a hatred of the US and it's allies South Korea and Japan. There is just no feasible way to normalize relations because they didn't want to under Obama, who was far more patient than Trump ever will be. But please, provide insight into new methods of diplomacy to reach out to an antagonistic, isolationist, dictatorship that is on record stating that they are testing nukes in order to attack you.
>>175357
Maybe it would be best to just... let it happen. The US is an illegitimate state anyway. Most people don't know this but the Treaty of Paris was only applicable to US citizens alive at the time of its signing, not their descendants and not subsequent immigrants. In effect, every American living today is a subject of the British Crown and the neat thing is that most people outside of the academic community are completely unaware of that fact.
No civilians even need to die. It would just be an EMP over California which would take out the strategic core of the US economy and perhaps a few limited tactical strikes on carrier groups with Chinese assistance to force a truce. Afterwards the EU would take over leadership of NATO and global institutions like the UN would have a greater role in preventing conflict worldwide.
>>175361
Nigga what the fuck crack are you smoking?
>>175361
>UN
>preventing conflict
They can't even stop their own workers from shitting in rivers and spreading disease.
>>175357
>>175362
Ignore this retard >>175361
>was not actively threatening the US with nukes
They were threatening EVERYBODY with nukes. They called the Soviets "revisionists" and saw the United States as the leading imperialist power. They talked openly about toppling both states and bringing revolution on a global scale.
>Unlike China, North Korea has built its identity on a hatred of the US and it's allies South Korea and Japan.
"Juche" is the core of the North Korean identity and it sounds like you haven't got a clue what it is.
>Obama, who was far more patient
You mean the same president who attempted to organize the assassination of Kim Jong Un with chemical agents in consort with Park Geun-hye, until she got herself arrested and the plan fell apart?
>>175361
Are you retarded?
Our only options are these at this point:
1. Wait for a disaster and declare war
2. Declare war
>>175365
We can't declare a war under any circumstances.
It's an instant and total loss if we do.
>>175364
Do you have evidence that China actively threatened to nuke us? I tried looking for articles and came up blank, but I may have missed something.
>Juche
Just looked it up. Seems similar to the ideology of Japan during WW2, except more focused on the self as opposed to conquest. Essentially we have to take all of their shit and can't stand up for ourselves or else they will continue to escalate the conflict. Sounds like a real solid policy for the modern age.
>assassination plot
The only evidence for this I can find is North Korean propaganda. Funny that this is coming from the nation which assassinated one of its own with VX in Malaysia earlier this year.
>>175368
>Literally knows nothing about East Asian politics
Okay, so not a Pentagon shill, just a diehard Trump cultist. Don't worry, the Koolaid passes out of your system eventually. I think your outlook will improve once you turn 18.
>>175369
Please, enlighten us all. How can we achieve peace in the east? You have yet to give any counterarguments longer then a single sentence and I would love to hear the insight of one as educated as you.
>>175370
>How can we achieve peace in the east?
By not starting WWIII. Nuclear-armed North Korea is a fait-accompli. This isn't the first time a rival of the United States has acquired nuclear weapons and it won't be the last. So far in human history, every state actor with access to nuclear weapons has shown restraint, and that includes North Korea.
Your best bet, by far, is instead to focus on working with countries whose nuclear stockpiles may not necessarily be safe from terrorists. What really worries you more? Yet another communist Oriental nation with a few bombs, or dysfunctional shitholes with massive numbers of radical Islamists and corrupt officials like Pakistan and France?
>>175372
Fair. I just don't trust that because every nation with nukes has so far shown restraint means that things will continue that way forever. The best solution is to remove all nukes since they are just too much of a liability, but good luck getting that to happen. The only thing we can do now is to prevent the production and testing of more nuclear arms in order to try and contain the threat to the few nations which already have them.
Pakistan is a problem, though France is not as much of a concern. I get that you want to try and prevent conflict, but can you honestly say that given North Korea's recent posturing and nuclear tests that they are not at least a little threatening? I just don't see either side backing down given who is in charge.
>>175382
>The only thing we can do now is to prevent the production and testing of more nuclear arms
tl;dr We need to bomb Iran and put Pakistan "on notice". You sound like a neocon.
France IS a problem too. The country is 30% Muslim. They work in their intelligence, police, and military, sometimes at high levels. And then let's not forget that Israel is the only nuclear state in the world which has NEVER allowed UN inspectors to visit its sites, does not report its radioactive stockpiles, and has a large and growing internal faction of Jewish religious terrorists/extremists.
>>175384
> we need to bomb them
When did I argue for violent intervention? If you are going to throw around insults when I am trying to maintain a civil discussion, so be it. What are your solutions to the problems posed in the second paragraph? We can't remove people from office due to their religion and if you are against violence and sanctions I don't see how you plan to stop terrorist nations from acquiring nuclear arms. Forcing inspections on Israel is about the only thing I can see realistically happening and even that is an uphill battle.
>>175361
>Maybe it would be best to just... let it happen
20 rubles have been deposited into your account.
>>175386
>When did I argue for violent intervention?
I apologize. Your rhetoric sounded quite similar to the talking points of neoconservatives and Jewish Zionists, so I naturally assumed that you were trying to advocate for a war with Iran without outright saying so.
>can you honestly say that given North Korea's recent posturing and nuclear tests that they are not at least a little threatening?
Yes, I can honestly say that. It's a country of 25 million people with an obsolete army, surrounded by ships and nuclear bombers commanded by the world's premier hyperpower. Weeks ago, in an act without precedent in US history, the leader of that hyperpower threatened total genocide against an ethnic group, and now appears genuinely butthurt that he cannot follow through.
>I just don't see either side backing down given who is in charge.
Nobody's going to war. Part of the reason the US has been ramping up the tensions is to sell lucrative weapons contracts to Japan and South Korea. Make no mistake, Trump may be a gullible clown but he does listen to his defense secretary, who is a key voice of restraint. There's also the fact that he's never handled adversity in his life and the risk of escalation into global conflict frightens him. He's literally just blowing off steam that he can't act out on his autistic fantasies because there are bigger adults in control.
>We can't remove people from office due to their religion
You can pressure France to improve security at its nuclear facilities and provide advice on how to do a better job. You can leverage SIGINT advantages that France might not necessarily have to identify potential extremists in their security services who they might not necessarily be able to catch by themselves. We could consider bringing France into the 5EYE alliance.
>>175361
*grumbles* Fuggin commies...
>>175384
France is 5-7% muslim.
>>175406
Bullshit.
they sday that the nk nuke "tests" have demolished many underground paths of other countries thus making more enemies of the world.
well done nk
Allahu Akbar!
The U.S. must take Monroe Doctrine now.
The U.S. must withdraw American Forces from all Foreign Countries now.
Stop America's doing its all wars now!
I love American99% and the U.S.
China, Germany and Japan must loosen Germany's, Japan's and China's monetary policies now!
China, Germany and Japan must stimulate Germany's, Japan's and China's domestic demands now!
Japan and Germany must issue a lot of construction bond now!
Japan and Germany must reduce Germany's, Japan's and China's taxes now!
The U.S. must tighten its monetary policy now!
As a result, Dollar value will rise!
The U.S. will have trade surplus!
Japan, Germany and China are evil empires.
Islamists' true enemies are Japan, Germany, China, FRB, top1%, Wall Street, American Military Industry and DOD!
Japan is the country which has been promoting Globalization!!!
Allahu Akbar!
>>175366
This. The USA will never activly start a war. We just wont. We enjoy being the kid who got picked on for too long before the fist fight actually happened and we kicked our bully's ass.
I don't think the US should actively attack or anything at this time, also because China is also int he picture. But I think given time that China will back the US but this by putting heavy restrictions on what can be done. Kim is being a little dick to the only country that is putting up with his shit and even China will eventually leave his shit specially when the mountain collapses, it just adds to the annoyances Kim is causing and China doesn't want all the refugees either.
I think that in order to get to NK you would need to increase pressure on the countries that are putting up with his shit and work together rather than just pressing the nuke them button. If the US attacks first then they will have Russia and China against them, if Kim fucks up and he will then he has everyone against him.
Will add one more thing after this..
>>175434
Kim was supposed to be groomed to become the new leader. It is a military centered country and he has no experience at all, in fact he was simply given some medals and a title that he is an artillery expert. Instead of preparing his 'arrival' (by that I mean his backstory and credibility in military expertise) his dad died too soon and they had to improvise some shit, and so the older generation started doubting Kim's expertise to lead the country to greatness (which doesn't really exist). Kim probably got paranoid thinking they wanted him dead and therefore purged most of the old generals and followers of his father. Now however he has to 'win the people over' sort of speak and therefore put more attention on the nuke program and is acting all tough so no one there will doubt him again. Once shit hits the fan he's the first one gone though, he doesn't know wtf he's doing.
>>175372
DAILY REMINDER;
North Korea manufactures and sells methamphetamine (one of the largest producers in the world, from what I've read), sold weapons to Iran AND "moderate" rebels in Syria/Iraq, and are the best counterfeiters of US currency outside of the US.
If that isn't a reason to stick a fist up Little Kimmy's tight asshole then idk what is.
>>175432
The US has been faking enemy attacks to leverage the moral high ground for a century. It's time to do that again I guess.
>>175435
If he really didn't know what the fuck he was doing, he'd be dead in a ditch by now and someone else in the clan or the military would be running the show. He's at least as cunning as his dad, if not even smarter, and definitely has a cool head; for all of his antics, I don't see him as irrational or scared enough to initiate a crisis without extreme provocation.
Ultimately, I think this will blow over once Kim gets what he wants, barring a major mistake, and he'll probably continue his quiet motions towards economic reform a la China. North Korea is modernising with or without his say-so due to the unstoppable growth of private economy and pervasion of foreign culture, and he'll have to go with the flow if he wants to preserve his dynasty in this century.
To stay on topic, with an autocracy, and majority militarized nation such as North Korea, constantly showing their hate towards the US, even saying these our going to be 'gifts' for them, do you believe they wanted to create an uproar about their nuclear weapons?
I feel like they want a response from the world to almost pick and choose who is the most prepared for the actual launching of these bombs.
If they were to launch them RIGHT NOW, where do you think the targets would be placed.
>yes I know they wouldn't be launched right now you retard
>>175453
Thanks for the response, I can see your perspective on why he would stay silent for now, though one thing sticks out.
If he didn't want to destroy his dynasty, then why are diplomats calling this a gift for the US. Are they just trash talking, or do you believe he is really pushing their force upon others trying to perceive dominance.
>>175453
I don't think you can be so definitive about why Kim has hung in there, all of the shit he's been stirring could have just as easily been done by a puppet.
I agree that this should all blow over as soon as whatever invisible struggles are finished with over there. But if that mountain collapses and China gets touched in any radiation I'm pretty keen to see what they do.
>>175342
There's really only a military solution available at this point, the North Korean state is essentially run by a madman and his sycophants. You can't say that about other nuclear powers.
>>175351
Turn them into our next sweatshop, I like it.