Is there any other artist who's music is as complex, layered,

Van der Graaf Generator

Assuming you mean modern bands, there aren't many.

Liturgy is the only one I can think of.

>>54523436
Mozart does it pretty darned well m8

The Beatles

>>54523498
further proof

Cardiacs
They are better in all the things you mentioned
Radiohead even cites them as an influence.

Mr Bungle is another option.

>>54523495
Liturgy isn't complex or layered at all.

>>54523584
Cardiacs are shit m8.
You just overrate them to look cool.

>>54523584
I will forever associate that band with you.

>>54523588
Their darting rhythms are what I'm mainly thinking about, along with their unconventional chords and progressions.

>>54523624
>Cardiacs are shit m8.

u wot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYPJjgUzfVU

>>54523624
They are clearly not shit, you just don't like them. If they are shit, so are Radiohead and Beefheart.

>>54523645
Sorry.

>>54523685
Oh, I wasn't complaining.

>>54523436
Arctic Monkeys :^)

PRIMUS

blur

>>54523736
Primus are fantastic song writers, yes.

But it just doesn't have the same emotional impact as Radiohead :/

>>54523436
If you're talking about pop artists, im pretty sure steely dan are the tightest group as well as being complex and catchy and all that other shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A0wGO3c2T8

>>54523662
lmao

>>54523436
The Beatles and The Beach Boys come to mind. Also Can I guess but they're not as catchy. Van Dyke Parks too actually, and Joanna Newsom, also AnCo and Panda Bear also fit I guess.

Nothing else really comes to mind right now.

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>complex, layered, well-written, well-mastered, and tightly performed

this is literally my face irl right now

>>54524032
wot happen 2 ur face a potatoe??

>>54523835
sadly steely dan isn't a "group". it's a pair of songwriters and co-producers who hire people to play their songs. typically they'll put together the best session musos in the business to make 3-4 different bands. they'll then spend all the time in the studio having each band meticulously record all the songs on the albun over the course of several days. when they're done, they have the album recorded essentially 4 times and then they pick through and keep the best versions, usually resulting in like 50 people contributing to the album, all of which had nothing to do with the creative process per se and were paid to play. also, if there is to be any solos/soloists on a song they usually fly in several god-tier candidates from all over the world and have them tear the world's best solos over the several versions of the songs. it's incredibly political and backstabby to get your solo on the album over everyone else's.

tl;dr: steely dang are creative geniusi but they sure as tits aren't a band

>>54524212
mate, I have also watched the documentary, just seemed easier to call them a group. Its not as if you can only hear two people

>>54523436
You're overrated radiohead a bit there. I dont think their music is complex, well written or well mastered, nor emotional.
They're ok if you're a teen in the early 2000s, but come on, its 2015

>>54523584
cardiacs are trash but u tried

>>54524469
Name a reason why they are trash.
You don't even try.

>>54524404
but any group is going to be tight if it's hand-picked from the best musicians. a traditional band has to risk that someone might be a great member of the band but suck at their instrument... U2, Pink Floyd, Aerosmith, Beatles, they all have one. Steely Dan doesn't have to worry about that.

>>54523436
Porcupine Tree

>>54523436
There are bands like Radiohead who took influence from them like Grizzly bear and The Antlers


Because of what you said is why I listened to them so much for influence

>>54523495
Hunter pls

>>54523495
Hunter? HA is that really you?

>>54523584
>>54523685
I wouldn't call them shit, but it's pretty alienating when a band is trying so hard to be zany like Beefheart, Zappa, or what I've heard of Cardiacs. I like when bands incorporate tonal and rhythmic intricacy in their music, but when you start to think that modulation, chromaticism, and poly-rhythms are better because they're more intricate you've lost touch. It's narrow in the same way that somebody that's incapable of using those ideas, in the opposite direction. It's actually a sign of greater intelligence to recognize the values in simplicity along side intricacy and use both to balance each other out. Not saying I don't appreciate those guys, but part of me rolls my eyes at people that confuse intelligence for wisdom, or cleverness for depth, or difficulty (performance wise) for quality.

>>54524519
I kinda disagree. A tight group is one that can play well together. You can have musicians that aren't great, but can play really well together aswell as having tonnes of great musicians that just don't click. But having good, experienced musicians does help.

>>54523436

>>54524284

>>54523436
Bjork

>>54524730
yeah, it's a rich tapestry and etc

Spoon, The Smiths, The Cure, Modest Mouse, Swans, Destroyer, Sonic Youth, Animal Collective, Godspeed You! Black Emperor

All bands that combine craft with passion

>>54524836
I don't think your answer fits the criteria. please try again

>>54524725
What have you heard from them? It sounds like you are describing Mr Bungle or somethin else instead.
Longer reply incoming.

This?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB6n24ASc7w

>>54525017
karnivool's kinda neat but they're a litle bit of a joke. not bad for australian I guess.

>>54525095
>little bit of a joke
How? Some of the stuff they write is very complex and well written, why dies this earn them joke status?

If this is bait, fuck off.

>>54525017
My nigga, just listened to this today

>>54525095
Probably the best Australian rock band right now, way better than DLC or Arcane

>>54525177

mostly the production and overall direction of the music. just really overly-glossy and dull, and it sounds like everything else in its genre

>>54524911
How does that not fit the criteria? Most of those bands are better than Radiohead

>>54523662

kekeke

>>54525269
Just want to back the Liturgy guy up

I prefer Litrugy to Radiohead and would say they are one of the few contemporary bands making gripping music that is dynamic and exciting

>>54525177
Probably because it sounds a bit like tool clone butt rock

>>54524725
>it's pretty alienating when a band is trying so hard to be zany like Beefheart, Zappa
They are not trying, they just are that way. Not all Zany music is trying to be like Zappa/Beefheart (they do have some Zappa influences though, but not because of his Zaniness).

> I like when bands incorporate tonal and rhythmic intricacy in their music,
That's what Cardiacs do. Playful rhythms and tonal melodies with tasty key-changes in between.

>but when you start to think that modulation, chromaticism, and poly-rhythms are better because they're more intricate you've lost touch.
They have never used any of those elements (except maybe chromaticism, because I don't understand what that is).
Are you sure you actually heard them?

>It's actually a sign of greater intelligence to recognize the values in simplicity along side intricacy and use both to balance each other out.
It's funny that you say that, because Cardiacs use nursery-rhymes-like melodies at times. Their melodies are simple and very complex at the same time some times (See: Gina Lollobrigida)

>Not saying I don't appreciate those guys, but part of me rolls my eyes at people that confuse intelligence for wisdom, or cleverness for depth, or difficulty (performance wise) for quality.
Yeah, they are not like that. They often incorporate a lot of very creative ideas when it comes to things like melody, sounds, structure, etc

>>54525237
Read the OP

>>54525177
I wasn't meaning to bait, I like Karnivool and they're quite good but they're just stuggling to "make it". parrtially it's because a lot of their stuff isn't radio-friendly (nothing wrong with that) but they aren't "good" enough for anybody outside of aus to really have heard of them.

i guess it's the curse of australian music. to far away from the North America, UK, and Europe to join the game, but not exotic enough like japanese or brazilians to be noticed. ;_;

>>54525234
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10xwyADw4gI
This is what they sound like if you strip down the production and glossy-ness of their songs.

Still well written and reasonably complex imo.

>>54525419
Nice post, but I can't find the upvote button =/

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22KB, 300x285px

Even better

>>54523436
just thought of the winner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozr4KsZBTvQ

>>54525454
It's because they are not very original, as simple as that.

>>54525533
Not catchy enough.

>>54524725

>thinking some platitudes about music appreciation are interesting or original.

oh man, commit suicide, edgemaster.

>>54525563
>Avant-Garde/Math
>Catchy

Here's your reply :^)

>>54525580
I see you are looking for some memes.

>>54525611
Huh?

>>54525563
Didn't catch the catchy part. But Discipline era is both catchy and better than Radiohead

>>54525663
Discipline is good, but not really that catchy.
Favorite moment from the album btw?
Mine's the "I Did" from Indiscipline.

Definitely not catchier than Radiohead, and better... hmmm, I don't know. I would say yes.

>>54525454
Yeah considering the other big Australian bands like butterfly effect and Cog, Karnivool are by far the best

>>54525730
They got way catchier on Beat but I found Thela Hun Ginjeet to be catchy. My favorite moment is just the entire title track. The guitars are just smoothly weaving through each other like knots with many altering time signature changes, with the instruments playing in different time signatures at almost all times. All while making it groovy and head bob worthy

Can

Have you ever heard of Death Grips?

>>54525880
get the fuck out g

>>54525424
Wow, good answer. Never heard of them, but ill check em now.

>>54525944
What? They're what OP is looking for.

Oh, forgot about Gustavo Cerati.
Basically, he wrote Kid A (Bocanada) two years before Radiohead released it.

>>54526069
think hes looking for bands, not laptop artists

>>54525844
Yeah, Thela is the only catchy song. I found the title track boring. Whenn it comes to guitars waving through each other I think the intro from Frame by Frame is a lot better. It's just so colorful!

>>54526068
Wait, are you the guy I replied to or just some random anon?
Anyways, if you want to get into Cardiacs, keep in mind they have a lot of different styles through their career (over 20 years of high quality music). If you want music for the heart, start with A Little Man, if you want mindblowing music, go for Sing to God. Want some Punk with key-changes between the choruses? The Seaside.

>>54526330
Radiohead is a laptop artist.

The Dillinger Escape Plan. The way they go through all of their crazy rhythms and continue building intensity is insane. Literally no other band I've ever heard makes music the same way.

>>54526469
nah mate. Radiohead actually use studios and instruments. not just fuck around with midi keyboard and laptop

>>54523436
>catchy and emotional
i'll pass. there has never been a good art piece with those qualities

>>54525553
no one has any opinions on this? or just cos its not your shitty rock bands

Cardiacs

Body: The Seaside
Heart: A Little Man and A House
Mind: Sing to God

>>54526539
Zach Hill actually plays instruments. MC Ride is very expressive with his way of screaming.
Also, mastering the use of a laptop for making music is as difficult as learning an instrument.

>>54526547
Faust's self titled.

>>54525553
>>54526600
Haven't heard them. Liked the intro, but when she starts singing sounds like an average mainstream pop artist from USA. The music in the background is cool too, there are some very nice moments. I actually like this a lot. Thanks. Reminds me of Jamiroquai.
Now, it's not really complex or layered.

>>54526547
lol how fucking fedora can you get?

>>54526688
pretty interesting changes with quite a few extensions. and unusual amount of measures. but maybe not that layered. true its not that layered, and yeah she's a decent singer, but nothing special. feel like they're doing something different.

>>54526825
Yeah, the changes in the background really took me off-guard. Also, I really liked her style.
Do you like Jamiroquai? Because you should.

>>54526877
to be honest, haven't listened to much but liked what I heard. any recommendations?

>>54526928
Emergency On Planet Earth. The title song is amazing, and so are like four other tracks from the album. I should check out their discography more.

>>54526974
nice shout. kinda got that acid jazz vibe. heard incognito? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4weGwDt13Q

>>54525424
You're saying that there is no modulation or poly-rhythms in there music? That's plain not true from what I've heard. Maybe I need to listen to more. Give me an example of one of there songs that embraces simplicity for more than a couple bars at a time.

>>54527545
>You're saying that there is no modulation or poly-rhythms in there music?
Tell me where.

>That's plain not true from what I've heard
Again, you still don't tell me what you have heard.

>Give me an example of one of there songs that embraces simplicity for more than a couple bars at a time.
In a Melodic-Pop sense? Bellyeye and Manhoo

>>54527091
Nope, but I will right now.

>>54523816
>Listens to music for emotion
>Listens to Radiohead

>>54525563
>Not catchy enough
Still better

>>54526601
>MC Ride is very expressive with his way of screaming
Niggers shouting will never be art.

>>54527809
Not what OP asked for, but they are actually better.

>>54526601
>Also, mastering the use of a laptop for making music is as difficult as learning an instrument
As difficult as learning an instrument maybe, not nearly as difficult as mastering a real instrument though. If you think so you are a delusional non-musician.

>>54527842
Stop using words that you don't know what they mean. That makes you literally pretentious.

>>54525424
They have definitely used modulation and chromaticism. Even Radiohead uses those. Don't know about polyrhythms though.

>>54527871
I agree an instrument is slightly more difficult than a laptop, but only because you need coordination. Other than that, they are both as difficult. An instrument is difficult to play, a laptop is not, but for both is as difficult to make good music. Also, it's not like Radiohead has skilled players.

>>54527911
Oh, I thought you were talking about Electronic Modulation. They definitely use Modulation in almost half of their songs (sometimes more than once, in the same chorus).
Can't say about the Chromaticism thing because I don't understand what that is.
No Polyrhythms at all.

>>54523588
They may not be that complex, but they do have some discipline. Listen to Aesthethica.
>>54523662
They have some urgent rhythms, but the harmonies only sound unconventional because they are bright and of a major quality which is virtually unheard of in traditional black metal. That said they have some pretty majestic progressions.

lets be honest, if your interested in musical complexity, just listen to jazz

>>54527873
There are only 6 words in that sentence and everyone here knows what they mean. MC Ride may sound sophisticated in interviews but on vocals he goes full nigger.

>>54528058
Chromaticism is just the use of any note outside of the key in tonal music.

>>54528098
There's more complexity than just scales, chord progressions, and improvisation.

>>54528147
You don't know what art means, that's why you are pretentious. For using the word without knowing what it means.
>MC Ride may sound sophisticated in interviews but on vocals he goes full nigger.
Jazz may sound sophisticated in interviews but when it comes to playing they go full nigger.

>>54528183
Yeah, they have definitely used that before.

>>54528198
im not talking about elevator music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_XJ_s5IsQc

ITT: mallgoth idiots.

>>54528305
I know, but Jazz only seems to get praised because of those three things (with some exceptions).
Snarky Puppy are cool, but definitely not that complex compared to entry-level jazz.
I still don't understand why they have gotten so "popular" in such a short time.

>>54528327
Hellou!

>>54528198
>Jazz may sound sophisticated in interviews but when it comes to playing they go full nigger.
But great jazz players aren't shouting noided cyber age mumbo jumbo, they're playing witty and highly disciplined music on instruments.

>>54528385
>But great jazz players aren't shouting noided cyber age mumbo jumbo
They are, just not during recordings.

>they're playing witty and highly disciplined music on instruments.
They are just playing random notes from a scale, that's not being disciplined.

dttpts

Also, shouting can be very expressive, and if that was disciplined it would lose it's emotion.

>>54528452
>They are, just not during recordings
I don't know what jazz players you're thinking of, but regardless they aren't nigging on their recordings or live sets like some screaming homeless men.

>>54528452
>They are just playing random notes from a scale, that's not being disciplined.
Kek. No wonder it sounds random, you obviously can't play.
>Also, shouting can be very expressive, and if that was disciplined it would lose it's emotion
But shouting words shouldn't just be someone's whole gimmick.