>My favorite album is a bunch of whirring noises and high

2deep4u

>>52010930
I appreciate the album, but calling it your favorite album is fucking stupid.

>>My favorite album is a bunch of whirring noises and high frequencies

I don't really like the album, but why is that inherently a bad thing?

>>52010943
what if you really like how it sounds and often enjoy listening to it more so than any other album

picking an ultimate favorite album is dumb anyway imo

>>52010966
>picking an ultimate favorite album is dumb anyway imo
Wholeheartedly agree but that doesn't stop people.

>>52010973
imo most of the times people just want to participate in the conversation and pick whatever comes to mind that they enjoy at the moment.

>Syro

>>52010992
Syro has melody and rhythm.
Try again.

>I only like music I can dance and sing along too

You want the Billboard forums OP

>>52011039
No, I want /classical/.

>>52011001
>melody and rhythm.
thats was my grandparent argument when I showed him new music.

but the textures...

This album is literally a meme. It's a joke. Nobody actually likes it. People only pretend to like a 2 hour long high pitched beep because they think it's funny that somebody would really listen to it. I've yet to see anyone write something serious about this so-called music, that doesn't describe it as a joke or boring.

>>52011340
>this elvis pervert is just noise for teenagers to have sex to

>>52011058
Off you go then.

You don't need permission.

>my favourite album is a guy screaming over fake drums
>my favourite album is a bunch of twangy sounds in order
>my favourite album is a bunch of low frequencies played on a laptop

although saying that i've never understood the appeal of onkyo. i'm a fan of HNW and power electronics but i can't get into 4 minutes of tinnitus bookended by 20 minutes of silence

it's good to some people though

>>52010921
Still beats the shit out of Death Grips and 99% of modern hip hop.

>>52012005
Le (c)rap music!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>52012005

thumbs up if you're one of the ones who listens to real music like Led Zeppelin and the Beatles

really though what i don't understand is how these albums have so many people taking part. most of the top onkyo artists on last.fm are groups of 3 or 4 people. what do the other guys do while the one guy messes about with a tone generator?

>>52011001
GMGN has melodies and rhythm too.

>>52012082
They play their own instruments maybe?

>>52012050
>>52012082
dank maymay, to hell with actual arguments

>>52012082
depends who it is, try watching videos of them live

>>52012111
>>52012118

in my experience with onkyo (not much admittedly) there's always like one sound going on at once, like a rustling or a beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. doesn't seem like a four-man effort

>>52012138
Sometimes two can play at the same time. The appeal of it is that it's very minimal though.

>>52012050
>>52012082
>biting

Noise isnt music. It is a niche market and a badge of social status. It is not composed, it lacks rhythm, melody, and time. It is cacaphony for the sake of itself.
If you like the 'atmosphere', good for you, but that doesnt make it music.

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>>52012305

>it is not composed

[citation needed]

>>52012305
music
ˈmjuːzJk/
noun

1. vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion.

>>52012334
Thank you for reinforcing my point.
>>52012324
Feel free to post noise transcribed onto sheet music and is theoretically sound.

>>52012324
He's right about that one but for the different reasons.

Noise is improvised.

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>>52012397

>all music is composed by having it first written in notation on paper

wrong

when merzbow makes music, he's still prepared something. he has noise generating devices and he knows how they sound beforehand; when he records some noise he knows how the different noises coming from them will sound together. he doesn't just hit record and then mess about with a DAW and hope it will sound like harsh noise. it's composed, not in the strictest sense of the term "musical composition", but in the sense that he's planned it beforehand. there's some element of composition

>>52012324
>Recorded live during 2nd - 3rd August, 2003.

From the booklet of this album. Told.

>>52012451
this is true but most noise musicians don't do that tho

>>52012451
planning =/= composition

>>52010921
>those people on RYM that 5 star GMGN without having any other onkyo
it's a nice album though

>>52012478

they plan out how it will sound. even the ones like masonna don't just record something without knowing beforehand how it will sound

>>52012451
I guess owning an instrument makes you a composer then, since you know how it sounds and it can produce noise.

>>52012509
see
>>52012478

>>52012111
oh god

you are retarded

oh my god

>>52012451
If i own a piano and know what sounds it makes, I'm a musician then?
Merzbow is a hack

>thread is pure bait
not surprised

ITT: Jazz is no longer music

>>52012565
Woosh: the post.

>bait baiting bait: the thread: the game: the novel

>>52012593
ITP: I don't know anything about jazz

>>52012593
Improvisational jazz often has rhythm and key. Stop equivocating it to noise.

>>52012632
wrong quote whoops
>>52012397

>>52012556
Why exactly?

>>52012647
But not composed and written, way to prove yourself wrong.

>>52012647
>Improvisational jazz often has rhythm and key
Not true.

I can't speak about rhythm but any sound and any timbre can be classified as melodic. In any way, melody and rhythm aren't the point behind improvised music, which is sound - an abstract kind of melody.

>>52012305
>>52012324
>>52012334
>>52012397
>>52012451

1. This album isn't what is generally considered "noise".

2. This is improvised music, not composed. improvisation is not just dicking around. It is an alternative to composition- not inferior.

3. definitions of music are subjective and there is no way to convince someone else of your definition

>suddenly, all these jazz experts on /mu/

Name your top 5.

>>52012677
It requires knowledge of theory to play. Jazz syncopations are something that need to be learned. Study monk and youll understand.

>>52012727
davis, coltrane, list, goes, on

>>52012758
that wasn't your initial argument. you're backpedaling. it's still not written or composed

>>52012796
obviously he's implying knowing music theory = all your works being notated and composed

lol

>>52012711
1. Its still not music
2. I agree but only when you understand and comply with music theory
3. Not true. Wankery like onkyo is not tantamount to the works of Bach. Stop truing to corrupt peoples minds with this circular logic.

>>52012819
>bach
pathetic. I didn't realize I was talking to an entry level try hard classifag.

>>52012815
Oh lel. Didn't catch that.

>>52012758
You realize music theory is just a tool for analyzing music and not a magic stick that you use for writing quality music, right? Or are you just baiting without even hiding it at this point.

>>52011690
>denying the fact that there's a scene for this kind of music, not only in japan but a separate one in europe

>>52012819
>I agree but only when you understand and comply with music theory
many improvising musicians developed their skills in academia. many did not. you'd be hard pressed to determine which did and which didn't through sound alone let alone disparage some for not being formally trained. sensitive understanding of music does not require a background in music theory or a strict adherence to it while performing.

>wankery like onkyo
it's pretty obvious how little you've listened to when you only list onkyo when talking about modern improvised music. you can't defend your opinions as objective fact by deferring to vague notions of music theory and 'corruption'.

>>52012845
>ignoring one of the greatest composers of all time because someone with a shallow definition of music calls it entry level.
I doubt you even play an inatrument.

>>52012967
I'm
>>52012955
>>52012819

ignore that other guy.

>>52012967
Your random namedropping argument is so much better.

>>52012910
>music theory is just a tool for analyzing music

^^

Music theory comes, almost always, AFTER the music. In some cases it comes before, and that's where the real wankery starts (I'm looking at you, Hindemuth, Schoenberg).

Noise is MAINSTREAM music, has been since musique concrete. Pauline Oliveros used to have people sit and listen to fluorescent lights and refrigerators, and she's generally considered one of the more important composers of the 70s.

Music is organized sound, that's all. "Organized" is a very loose term that can encompass random chance.

>>52013026

>Noise is MAINSTREAM music, has been since musique concrete

Yeah I hear noise on the radio and people talking about noise all the time.

>>52011690
the pseudo-intellectual reviews on RYM turned me away at first. simply, it's meditative. like a lot of lowercase and indeterminacy, it's very relaxing music. even still, it's not for everyone.

>>52013026
>Noise music is popular because a fat old lesbian who does randumb shit is well know

>>52013093
whom are you quoting?

>>52010961
Because you have to have autism to enjoy that sort of sound. It's not music.

>>52013117
Is having autism a bad thing now?

>>52012967
*instrument

>>52013113
Myself and my self (as an ontological historical entity).

>>52013136
Yes.

>>52013070

>this sine waves signifies the lack of reality. low frequencies signifies loss of importance of the self. if you believe communism capitalism god etc or if you are living to get a new car or for the tv show you gonna watch tomorrow dont listen to this record. you cant appereciate this recording or you gonna just pretend due to its popularity.

kek

>>52013064
>radio static
>not noise

>>52013026
>Pauline Oliveros
>she
You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about, huh?

>>52013325
It's /mu/, what did you expect?

ITT: Fucking retardes that don't even know what DADAISM is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dada

>>52013325
are you under the impression pauline oliveros is a male? cos lmao man

>>52013404
Don't worry, someone will start shitposting in a minute, blaming dadaism for "lelel so randum" teenagers in a second. Completely missing the fact that it was one of the most interesting social reactions to a world war.

>>52013325

are you taking a shit in your own thread?

Is this part of that tumblrcuck backlash i've been warned about?

>>52013325
>>52013464
wtf i've never looked into this
is it a boy or a girl
as in what they identify as

>>52013465
It was one of the most important art movements, ever.

>>52013404
Weimar Germany and Japan between WWI and WWII gave rise to some weird shit.

>>52013404
tfw i knew what dadaism was
am i patrician yet

>>52013499
as far as i know she identified as female, i think that anon just mistakenly thought she was a he

>>52013499
She's a masculine looking lesbian.

>>52013404
If taking a photo of a toilet art, than anything is art as long as the artist says so.
/thread

>>52013548
yes

>>52012950
You're waist-deep in b8, m8. Let it go.

>>52012397
>Feel free to post noise transcribed onto sheet music
The standardization of written music is honestly the worst single innovation in music history.

>>52012452
by extension, any Grateful Dead live album falls into this pitfall as who can compose "on they fly" as you would seem to suggest.

>>52013548
Or anything is art as long as the viewer perceives it as art. But the designation of something as art and aspects of art criticism are entirely separate.

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>my favorite album's 4th track is a 15 minute compilation of sexual assault victims being interviewed

>>52013574
nigga that's like saying any one particular language destroys the creative process. The concept of representing sounds symbolically is not flawed, but the name of the game is to move away from assuming that music is written solely in 12 tones.

>>52013596
What album is that?

>>52013611
Buyer's Market most likely.

>>52013548
>anything is art as long as the artist says so.

yep

the term "noise" is kind of like "fag", one that has been deliberately appropriated away from criticism into the realm of art.

>>52013574
>The standardization of written music is honestly the worst single innovation in music history.
I don't understand why people have such a hard time transcending the "music = notation" thing in the age of electronics and recorded music. I mean it should be so intuitively obvious...

Notation is a convenience that facilitates transmission and analysis, but it's not the very definition of music itself. Its scope is very, very limited and specific.

>>52013607
>The concept of representing sounds symbolically is not flawed
Well, in some ways it is. Sound has many, many more dimensions to it than what can be easily described or represented.

>>52013664
Sound has to be one of the most trivially representable physical phenomena. Why do you think acoustics has been steadily studied since the Greeks?

>>52013629
Nah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMBY7IkIE88

>>52013713
Still based Sotos going at it.

Birdseed is fantastic.

>>52013708
>Sound has to be one of the most trivially representable physical phenomena.
It absolutely isn't. You really can't describe timbre beyond the most vague and superficial qualities. Look spectromorphology and how elaborate it is. It's extremely limited itself.

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>>52013596
>my favorite piece of music is 4 minutes of nothing playing. Isn't that clever and thought provoking???

>>52013749
Sounds like people are just getting lazy in adding enough sinusoids to describe a specific sound.

>>52013713
LMAO this sounds like enhanced versions of Tom from Tom and Jerry screaming.

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>>52013817
>Sounds like people are just getting lazy in adding enough sinusoids to describe a specific sound.

>here's your score anon

>>52010921
anyone prefer Toshimaru Nakamura's Egrets to this? I love the trumpeteer on that record.

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>>52013596
>My favorite album is a compilation of porn clips after the country's national anthem

>>52012305
The word "noise" doesn't mean anything in music.

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>>52013905
>tfw you will never buy a Ramones record only to realize it's Showa LP as you get home

>>52013949
>The word "noise" doesn't mean anything in music.

It's one of the most useful and living terms. It went from being a term of derision to a description of certain chaotic sounds to a description of a genre.

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>>52013981
>buy a mysterious cassette from a local store
>it's just an octopus tentacle inside the cassette case

>>52013984
That's why this word is stupid when used for music, it has no real meaning in music.
What is a chaotic sound ?
A sound who isn't a musical note or who isn't harmonic ? Muh Westerner egocentrism
A sound who doesn't seem pleasent to your ear ? But what if another person find it pleasant ?

Using the word "noise" for describing music is as stupid as using the term "onkyo" describe all this scene of music

>>52014153
you would like that slut

>>52013817
Sine waves really aren't the best way to describe sounds. It's just one type of analysis that isn't really suitable for all sounds, or necessarily relevant to either perception or meaningful description.

>>52014177
Isn't there an actual definition for noise though? Like a point where the overtones overpower the actual note so the fundamental becomes uncertain. So you can "measure" noise in a scientific way.

>>52014275
>Like a point where the overtones overpower the actual note so the fundamental becomes uncertain.
Indeterminate pitch doesn't mean noise. The term "noise" itself isn't that descriptive or useful, and anyway it doesn't generally describe what noise music actually sounds like.

>>52014177
>What is a chaotic sound ?

white noise, pink noise, brown noise are all chaotic

>>52014275
>Isn't there an actual definition for noise though?

yes, the varieties of noise proper have scientific definitions and are used in math and engineering of various kinds.

>>52014408
>white noise, pink noise, brown noise are all chaotic

Chaotic, random, etc. all have precise definitions that have little to do with perceptual qualities. Noise isn't necessarily either random or chaotic.

Look, the post-modernist take on "noise" (beauty is in the ear of the behearer) is a solid 20th century footing, but it is still a plebeian argument at its base.

Music is inherently subjective, but certain things exist in nature, including chaos, binary simplicity, and the harmonic series. Certain things exist inherent to humanity, including the limits of our memory, the range of sounds we can hear, and the fact that this range centers around our vocal range. Our heartbeats and footsteps tend to fall within certain bpm ranges.

If you wipe the slate clean, you have to fill it with something, and nature is a great place to start.

>>52013883
>implying you can't write that down with 12 numbers

>>52014572
But music is already intuitively based on things that are perceptually relevant. Outside of a few 20th century things (Xenakis, etc.), music has never been a wholly contrived and artificial construct. Any noise performer is using perception to inform their actions, and thus implicitly takes these things into account.

>>52014196
perception and description are secondary to reproduction, as the former two are subjective but the latter isn't. Your perception of the same sound can vary each time you hear it, but if its waveform is the same, that alone should give insights about how to allow you to perceive it multiple times.

>>52014572
That's kinda what The Art of Noises was getting at, how natural and industrial sounds and bodily noises could be used to make music. It wasn't completely abstract, it was just based on a different set of principles and types of sounds than Western music at the time.

>>52014648
I was thinking more of notation, musical analysis, etc., i.e. useful ways to communicate musical content, rather than just mathematical analysis.

And things like cochleagrams are much more compatible with human perception than the Fourier transform.

>>52014744
still, it's some representation that allows for reproducibility, which is the end-goal of writing music down, no?

I agree that Fourier analysis is not people friendly, but with everyone having a computer handy, it's a compact intermediate for dissemination of music.

>>52014644
>music has never been a wholly contrived and artificial construct

No, the situation has been even worse for long periods of musical history. Serialism, with the intention of "freeing dissonance", went down such a dark, abstract alleyway that it destroyed western art music for 30 years.

This is the problem with serialism, concisely stated:

Our 12tet tuning system has no precedent in nature, it's an approximation that allows for certain stylistic features of the baroque, namely "modulation". Before this, tonality was a much broader area because the tones in just intonation vibrate in actual pure ratios. In 12tet- everything classical you've ever heard and most of today's music- these pure ratios are fudged so that you can play "the same thing" in every key.

Serialism took 12tet as a natural fact, which it is not, and then imposed a set of algorithms on it in order to try to reach some kind of complete art.

And I'm saying this as a fan of several serialists

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>>52013117
>not music

>>52014788
>still, it's some representation that allows for reproducibility
It's not really an improvement on just recording a time series, i.e. PCM. It's more useful for either analysis or modification.

>which is the end-goal of writing music down, no?
The advantage of a score has more to do with performance or formal analysis.

>>52014791
>Serialism, with the intention of "freeing dissonance", went down such a dark, abstract alleyway that it destroyed western art music for 30 years.
There's nothing really wrong with dissonance, and the contributions of serialism to music theory were great. At worst, you learn something about music cognition, i.e. that highly chromatic melodies with many large intervals tend to be difficult to follow and not very memorable.

>Our 12tet tuning system has no precedent in nature
There's a problem here. You're assuming that things must be derived "from nature" to be somehow valid. But we acclimate to things we're familiar with. Jazz sounds perfectly acceptable despite having dissonant tritones all over the place (the ratio is sqrt(2) which is objectively extremely dissonant). People who aren't familiar with just intonation often prefer tempered thirds (which are off by ~15 cents) over just thirds. Culture is just as big a factor.

>Before this, tonality was a much broader area because the tones in just intonation vibrate in actual pure ratios.
That's really way too much of oversimplification. It's not like everyone was Harry Partch and then Bach comes along and BAM everything's 12 equal.

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>I enjoy arguing online about the definition of music

>>52015082
you've been reported, go back to /b/ or /s4s/ for shitposting

>>52014984
>Culture is just as big a factor.
>>52014984
>But we acclimate to things we're familiar with

Yes, this is the post-modernist argument. Again, I think that this is a fine footing to understand a lot of things, but we can do better.

The even bigger factor than culture is instrument design. And now, we've reached the end game of synthesis and reproduction, to where we can easily make things freed from the constraints of humans, tuning systems, and anything else that has previously defined genre.

>>52014984
>That's really way too much of oversimplification

Yes, but it's essentially true. Tonality developed from monody: gradually from the low ratios, until there were three notes, then five, then seven, then twelve… and then we magically stopped. But 19, 31, 49tet are there, they sound great.

I'm a composer, I've worked in notation, in various non 12tet tuning systems. So I'm coming from a foundation of "why not?"

>>52015106
/mu/ is literally the best shitposting board.

>>52013548

Yay, because everyone knows art is about making a statement! :^)

>>52010921
>implying that's anyone's favorite album

>>52015167
Like that Robert Wyatt song "When we could be shitposting..."

>>52015167
basically. how could someone even come here for music?

>>52010921
This album is the most boring thing I've sat down and listened to. It's interesting though in the way that it presents unpleasant and monotone sounds I don't usually hear juxtaposed with silence. I can't fault anyone for enjoying this, however if someone were to come up to me and told me this was their favorite album I'd think they were a pretentious douche who was lying. It's interesting, that's really all.

>>52015144
>Yes, this is the post-modernist argument. Again, I think that this is a fine footing to understand a lot of things, but we can do better.
My point was more that you can't really propose an entirely novel system that doesn't take into account any cultural or historical factors and expect anyone to understand, appreciate or adopt it. That would just be a repeat of the same mistake that modernism made. Anything new needs to come from a firm basis in perception and music cognition, and it needs to be introduced in a way that allows people to adapt to it gradually.

>and then we magically stopped.
Because continuing was historically too unwieldy, given the difficulties of notation, instrument building and performance. It's not as though no one tried.

>So I'm coming from a foundation of "why not?"
Sure, it's easy enough now.

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Any noise can be music if the artist calls it that, but it can still be shit music to almost anyone that hears it. If you take an apple and grind it in a blender, then suck all the moisture out of it until it's a powder, then rinse every bit of flavor and color out of it, I guess genetically that pile of dust is still an apple, but almost nobody is going to like the taste of it or the sight of it or anything.

Then again, appealing to the masses isn't the only thing that music is about, but it definitely plays a fairly large part.

>>52010921
>implying that album isn't just a meme and you've been trolled to the max

fgt

>>52015324
>I'd think they were a pretentious douche who was lying
i hate when plebs do this

>>52015443
I'd just assume that they were lying to look more "patrician." I feel like the actual subset of people that think this album is their favorite and it genuinely is their favorite is in the single digits.

>>52015374
This is all around one of the dumbest arguments I've ever seen.

>>52015485
there's a huge variety of music within the same genre that this album falls under. don't be so quick to knock a piece of music after one listen and little to no understanding of how it came to be.

I know a lot of people who consider it to be one of their favorites within the genre.

>>52010921
>i don't like things

>>52015543
>I know a lot of people who consider it to be one of their favorites within the genre.
For good reason. It kind of distills the most important people and interesting qualities of the whole scene into one release. And to some extent it's a /mu/ meme but that doesn't really subtract from it. I felt the same way when I heard it circa 2005.

>>52015531
No problem bro, glad I could raise the bar for shitty arguments.

>>52015353
>Anything new needs to come from a firm basis in perception and music cognition, and it needs to be introduced in a way that allows people to adapt to it gradually.

or you know, just drop off a bunch of instruments to the locals

music is as much pleb as it is patrician, it's a delicate system of checks and balances.

>>52015577
I'd personally go with erstlive 005 for the same reasons you mentioned and it would serve to frustrate even more hapless /mu/ browsers with its length. It still amazes me how resistant people are to this music that we get threads like this so often.

>>52015543
>one of their favorites within the genre
is different than
>favorite album of all time

And I wasn't knocking it. You're unnecessarily defensive.

>>52015577
why is this better than another similar album?

>>52015685
>It still amazes me how resistant people are to this music that we get threads like this so often.

It's a vital part of the music scene. If there's no reaction against the new, there's nothing to push against, and nobody cares. I wish people would hate more.

>>52015713
I don't see why the minor distinction is enough for you to call someone a pretentious douchebag. for many people who listen to this music it is their favorite genre, and therefore this can be someone's favorite album of all time. I happen to enjoy eai and onkyo more consistently than any other genre although this is not one of my favorites.

I'm not trying to defend the music - I'll enjoy it regardless. I just think you are being unnecessarily harsh for no reason other than "I don't like it that much so how can anyone else"

>>52015724
I don't think people reacting to this album on /mu/ is vital to anything.

>>52011972
>all electronic music is made on a computer
Fuck off you musically-uncultured piece of shit.

>>52015806
You're reading into it wrong. I would assume if someone told me that this is their favorite album was latching onto the fact that it's the more popular of avant-garde music like this. That's because:
a.) not many people listen to this type of music
b.) of the people that do listen to this type of music, it is only a subset of them that think it's their favorite of the genre
c.) of the people that think this is their favorite of the genre it's probably very few that think this is their favorite album of all time, as you illustrate by liking something else.

If you examine that small amount of people, it is far more likely someone is claiming that this is their favorite album to impress other people or annoy them. I usually assume that someone presenting this album is doing that because it's much more likely. They usually are accompanied by an "all other music is inferior" attitude. It has absolutely nothing to do with how much I personally enjoy it.

>>52015713
>why is this better than another similar album?
Variety and range. Sachiko M and Toshimaru Nakamura on their own tend to be more monotonous and less interesting. I feel like Good Morning Good Night has more interesting content without compromising anything. The interplay between the sounds is what makes it nicer than the solo work.

>>52015615
>or you know, just drop off a bunch of instruments to the locals
It would be better of DAWs, VSTs, etc. offered good support for this that wasn't a pain in the ass. As is, you can do it, but it's not really something you'll stumble into unintentionally.

>>52015963
your jump from c) to
>it is far more likely someone is claiming that this is their favorite album to impress other people or annoy them

makes no sense at all. if someone actually cares about this music they'd certainly have listened to more albums than just this and understand this album's place among others.

>They usually are accompanied by an "all other music is inferior" attitude
uhh do you have examples of this? I've never heard anyone use this expression in reference to this music

>>52015999
Fair enough. But what about works not associated with these artists? Why is it better?

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>tfw angry b8 thread has led to one of the most productive discussions on /mu/ for a while
you're welcome

>>52015963
This is straw man bullshit from the start. Who's even claiming it's their favorite album?

>>52016015
>It would be better of DAWs, VSTs, etc. offered good support for this that wasn't a pain in the ass

amen bro. I was trying to do electronic microtonality in the early 00s, it was fucking terrible. the academics hadn't figured out how to make instruments for kids yet… really, how hard is it to program a couple more scales into things? the virus had it, but most midi vst shit didn't.

now, ten years later, it's still like that. we need skrillex to start making just intonation music or something.

fuck everyone.

>>52016016
Have you been on /mu/ or RYM lately? People care a lot about how anonymous people think about their music taste. If you ask most of them why they like this more than other albums most of them just parrot arguments already made by critics without actually providing any personal insight.

People who enjoy art music and avant garde music often are entitled and think their taste is superior. It's people who take the term "patrician" seriously. People like to have unaccessible taste because it looks cool. If they see someone saying that pleb music is on par with their favorite art album they get angry. I've seen it happen in real life.

>>52016089
did you read the OP

>>52016018
>Fair enough. But what about works not associated with these artists? Why is it better?
The thing is, they're kind of the center of this style of super minimalist onkyo. There are plenty of other people doing minimal weird electronics, but it's usually not that stylistically similar. And if they're doing something comparable, it's usually derivative and not really as notable.

Sachiko M is easier to digest in an ensemble setting, by the way. Her other appearances on Otomo Yoshihide-affiliated records are more accessible.

>>52015201
its the only point of art.

>>52016174
Recommend me something on the accessible side with maybe a little less silence please? I'm interested in the ensemble setting.

>>52016213
>art is only for political propaganda.

>>52016256
>every statement is political propaganda.
o-ok

>>52016172
>If you ask most of them why they like this more than other albums most of them just parrot arguments already made by critics without actually providing any personal insight

it's painfully obvious who these people are on rym(only a few onkyo releases rated or whatever), and /mu/ is pretty terrible for real discussion. places like bagatellen(rip), ihatemusic, various blogs, etc give you a more accurate representation of the people who listen to this music more than just casually.

calling someone a pretentious douchebag for having this album as their favorite of all time is just fucking silly. if they can't articulate their opinion to you that is one thing, but presuming that they can't without asking is unfair.

>>52016243
sachiko m isn't involved in this music at the moment and otomo yoshihide only tangentially.

look into:

erstlive 005
tetuzi akiyama & toshimaru nakamura - semi-impressionism
Dafeldecker / Kurzmann / Fennesz / O’Rourke / Drumm / Siewert
hong chulki, jin sangtae & kevin parks - 音影
keith rowe & john tilbury - duos for doris
keith rowe & toshimaru nakamura - between
meeting at off site vol 1 - 3

that's a mix of onkyo and eai releases since I'm assuming you haven't listened to much eai either

>>52016407
Thank you for the recommendations.

>>52016155
>the academics hadn't figured out how to make instruments for kids yet…
That's not really what academics are supposed to do. Academics don't develop commercial music software anyway.

>really, how hard is it to program a couple more scales into things? the virus had it, but most midi vst shit didn't.
The problem is really MIDI. 128 notes plus controller data is stupid if you want to play arbitrary pitches. And the VST standard is based on MIDI. You can scale the incoming pitch for equal temperaments, but then sometimes there aren't enough notes. You can use controller data to retune, or a tuning table within the instrument, but those are a pain in the ass. It kinda needs to be re-conceived from the ground up. Or just use Max or whatever instead.

>we need skrillex to start making just intonation music or something.
I think there's actually a lot of potential for that sort of thing. The stuff I've heard so far isn't fantastic, and what I'm working on myself isn't necessarily that accessible, but it's the direction that things need to be moving in.

>>52016172
>People who enjoy art music and avant garde music often are entitled and think their taste is superior.
>People like to have unaccessible taste because it looks cool.
Cool projection bro.

Otomo Yoshihide is great

Loose Community is GOAT.

>>52013574
Youre just too ignorant to understand it is all. Thats why you reject culture and history for pseudo avant horseshit spoon fed to anyone who feels edgy or rebellious enough to have their common sense clouded by mindless rebellion
Get educated.

>>52016658
>Academics don't develop commercial music software anyway.

Except with the notable exception of Ircam-> pure data->max->ableton

but i understand that's another oversimplification

>>52016658
>The stuff I've heard so far isn't fantastic, and what I'm working on myself isn't necessarily that accessible

well make some reccos mane

here's my contribution to 19tet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiTduMGPZcM&spfreload=10

>>52016698
Otomo Yoshihide is great in every genre of music he tries !

>>52016243
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9BocyFZ46s

>>52016729
my effort in 72tet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4t5B6nPQGg

(with sorta bad sound quality that I need to rework)

>>52016407
duos for doris might be the best erstwhile release ever.

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>>52015374
that pizza is still frozen

Best EAI albums according to antimemehol:

Tetuzi Akiyama + Toshimaru Nakamura - Semi-Impressionism
Delicate Sen - Delicate Sen
Dieb13, Pure & Siewert - Just in Case You Are Bored. So Are We.
Michel Doneda, Urs Leimgruber & Keith Rowe - The Difference Between a Fish
Axel Dörner & Toshimaru Nakamura - Vorhernach
Dörner, Fuhler, Noetinger - Moov Spot
Max Eastley, Graham Halliwell, Evan Parker & Mark Wastell - A Life Saved by a Spider and Two Doves
English - English
eRikm, Martin Tétrault & Otomo Yoshihide - Trace Cuts
Cor Fuhler, Clare Cooper & Axel Dörner - Crax
Ivar Grydeland, Thomas Lehn & Ingar Zach - szc zcz cze zec eci cin
Iida Katsuaki & Ryu Hankil - Selected Poems With Clockworks
Thomas Lehn & Günter Christmann - Temps durée
Lionel Marchetti, Jérôme Noetinger & Mathieu Werchowski - Marchetti / Noetinger / Werchowski
Kaffe Matthews, Andrea Neumann & Sachiko M - In Case of Fire Take the Stairs
MIMEO - Lifting Concrete Lightly
MIMEO & John Tilbury - The Hands of Caravaggio
Nmperign / Jason Lescalleet - Love Me Two Times
N:Q - (November:Quebec)
Otomo Yoshihide, Axel Dörner, Sachiko M & Martin Brandlmayr - Allurements of the Ellipsoid
Otomo Yoshihide, Park Je Chun & Mi Yeon - Loose Community
Roam the Hello Clouds - Near Misses
Keith Rowe, Thomas Lehn & Marcus Schmickler - Rabbit Run
Jin Sangtae - Extensity of Hard Disk Drive
Ignaz Schick & Martin Tétreault - Live • 33 • 45 • 78
The Sealed Knot - And We Disappear
Stilluppsteypa & TV Pow - We Are Everyone in the Room
Sunshine Has Blown - Sunshine Has Blown
Toot - One
Toot - Two
TV Pow - Despite Ourselves
Variable Geometry Orchestra - Stills
Various Artists - Improvised Music From Japan
Improvised Music From Japan 2002-2003
Various Artists - Signal to Noise Vol. 6
Various Artists - Relay: Archive 2007 - 2008

Do you agree?

>>52016971
>my effort in 72tet

>generative
>non 12tet but still heavily consonant
>polymetric

that is really cool and pretty eerie. we're kindred spirits

do you have a soundcloud?

>>52016971
oh shit hey gall moth

>>52017117
tv pow is overrated and he picks mediocre obscure releases over a lot of popular and well-loved ones. I'd also put more emphasis on the korean scene collaborations rather than solo albums.

not to mention almost nothing from the past few years is mentioned there

>>52017117
>no Teatro Assente
fucken dropped

>>52017134
I haven't put anything on soundcloud in forever, youtube is better but I've been hoarding the newest stuff.

>>52017193
>busted
god dammit

>>52017117
who on rym has the best taste in EAI? serious question

>>52017393
me

>>52017393
Who cares? Most EAI is boring. Look for electronic composers if you want the real deal.

>>52017504
Who cares? Most electronic composers are boring. Look for IDM if you want the real deal.

>>52017552
Who cares? Most IDM is boring. Look for Prog House is you want the real deal.

>>52017552
>>52017587
oh god kek

>>52017552
you're b8ing but minimal synth > idm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNmc85-aGw0

>>52014181
Made me chuckle