LIKE THE GOOD OL DAYS AFTER 9/11
>>15863286
It's still the 11th.
>>15863289
LIKE THE GOOD OL DAYS OF 9/11
I wonder what Sundowner was doing when he heard the towers fell.
>>15863286
How did I not notice that Sundowner was a ganmen all along?
>>15863286
I remember the previous decade, America was pissed off Bush stole Gore's presidency and once this shit happened he went military crazy with the administation daring the public to retaliate. Nobody wanted to, mostly out of fear, save for Comedy Central. The popculture was very try hard in being seriois, dark, and angry toward one another. Obama aleviated a little of it, but by that point civility would never be restored and Trump reignited it worse than before. Much of the rage that plagues America today started with Bush and his failures following 9/11.
>>15863413
>serious
>>15863416
some butthurt is eternal
>>15863329
Furiously masturbating with joy
>>15863413
What are you talking about, even the most lily white New York liberal wanted every sandnigger nailed to a cross after 9/11.
The media actively egged the nation on to warmongering policies. They weren't afraid of anything but low ratings.
>>15863413
>>15864519
I sometimes wonder how different things would be had Gore won
>>15863329
Was he even born yet?
>>15864527
Gore would not have been able to solve the fundamental divisions between various elements of the US populace.
>>15864519
This.
Literally EVERYONE wanted to glass the middle east. Maybe they didn't say it aloud in public but I didn't know a single person who didn't hate their guts after that. Literally even a muslim egyptian friend of mine talked about joining the military after 9/11 (he did later on, but went Navy I think). The fact that people moved on so quickly is amazing, it wasn't even that long ago. Guess that war really burned people out.
>>15864527
redpill me on Gore without muh unconventional truth
>>15864586
>Guess that war really burned people out.
Doesn't help it was a war we weren't prepared to wage. We've been spending billions preparing for an actual war against another developed nation, not guerrillas hiding in caves, which you think we would have learned how to deal with after Veitnam. We could have leveled everything but we had to be above that. It's like buying guns to prepare yourself against a home invasion, and having only those to deal with a roach problem.
>>15864527
9/11 would still have happened. What answer to an act of war is acceptable save war itself? Very little would be different.
>>15864647
Oh undoubtedly, but how the war was handled would certainly have been different. Wether better or worse, we'll never know.
>>15864647
>>15864660
>9/11 would still have happened
>Oh undoubtedly
>they don't know it was an inside job
JET FUEL CAN'T PRODUCE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN DUBIOUS STOCK TRADES AND PORT AUTHORITY INSURANCE RENEGOTIATIONS
WAKE UP SHEEPLE
>>15864602
Nation building only works when you've got the willpower to stick it out and invest and protect your assets heavily in the region for at least a couple decades.
>>15864675
Nation building only works if you're building an empire full on.
>>15864675
Nation building only works when you fucking subjugate the natives. People forget that the most successful nation builder was Genghis Khan and it was because he slaughtered anyone who didn't immediately bend to his will. Everyone knew his might and submitted or they died HORRIFICALLY, not pretty but it worked. If you're not willing to go all out with the tyranny it's really dumb to even go in there.
>>15864936
By successful I mean speedy. Obviously it didn't last once the big bad was gone
>>15864672
>(You)
>>15864647
Bush took terrorism as a joke before 9/11
>>15864586
Can't believe we fucking missed our chance.
THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A METAL GEAR THREAD
>>15865724
>Thread devolves into politics.
Yep, it's Metal Gear all right.
>>15865732
the Big Boss saga after MGS3 was such a stream of shit.
>>15865732
Peace Walker is cute!
>>15864529
He seems to be middle aged and the game takes place next year.
>>15865724
politics in my metal gear
why I never
>>15864529
>>15863329
He was probably a high school student or college freshman when 9/11 happened.
>>15866227
Sundowner's bio says he was a soldier in the Invasion of Panama, which would place him at 18 in 1989 at the oldest. This would make him about 30 by the time he served in Afghanistan and in his mid to late 40s by the time of MGR.
>>15866263
At the youngest, I mean, not the oldest. He could very well be in his 50s if he was twenty-one or so during Panama.
IM FUCKING INVINCIBLE
>>15865804
Peace Walker is a better story than 3.
>>15866263
>he was a soldier in the Invasion of Panama
He was the faggot spamming Van Halen during the entire operation, wasn't he?
>>15864600
Knew what he was talking about, wouldn't have choked on a pretzel, wouldn't go to a bar with you but would explain how you can save money and enjoy better-tasting beer with a home craft brewery kit or supporting local small businesses instead of (occasionally foreign) corporations. Put the internet in your school, assuming you're over the age of 28.
>>15866328
>tfw wars will never get official government backed soundtracks ever again because muh profeshunalisms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2r8qpf2Paw
>>15864647
>9/11 would still have happened
I dunno, we might have had a President and staffers who read their fucking reports.
>George Tenet wrote, 'The system was blinking red,' when Bush was presented with a CIA report with the headline, more alarming and more pointed than any I saw in 8 years of daily CIA briefings: 'Bin Laden Determined to Strike in the US.'
>The only warnings of this nature that remotely resembled the one given to George Bush were about so-called Millennium threats predicted for the end of the year 1999 and less specific warnings about the Olympics in Atlanta in 1996. In both cases these warnings were followed, immediately, the same day--by the beginning of urgent daily meetings in the White House of all the agencies and offices involved in preparing our nation to prevent the threatened attack.
>By contrast, when Pres. Bush received his fateful and historic warning of 9/11, he did not bring together the FBI and CIA and other agencies with responsibility to protect the nation, and apparently did not even ask follow-up questions about the warning.
And even if it did, we might have gone after bin Laden instead of invading an unrelated fucking country just to raid it. We might have also slapped fucking Saudi Arabia around for funding this whole mess in the first place, as they continue to do, instead of doing their dirty work in slapping their regional enemies around for them while they continue to promote the Wahhabi ideology that gives rise to ISIS and other groups in the power vacuums we create.
Shit, Gore might have put us so far ahead on green energy by this point that the idea of ending our dependence on foreign oil would be achievable within a decade from now, and then we wouldn't have to give a rat's fucking ass about that whole mess of sand and mountains over there for any reason other than a place to park various military bits and bobs.
>>15866324
no it's not. It's not even nearly as good in any way shape or form.
>>15865732
Once the TX-55 Metal Gear will be mass produced...
>>15863413
You're past is different than mine. People were happy Bush won over crazy Gore but everyone made jokes of Bush constantly. No one was trying to be serious, they just saw bush as a homeboy instead of leader. Then Obama came in and it was like no one could make fun of the president and EVERYONE had to get political or you were racist. Then Trump came in and things got weird because people are trying to do jokes again but they don't know how and everything is divided. Bush dumbed us down, obama divided, trump is the after math of the previous.
>>15866365
You have wrestling for this shit though.
>>15865732
Now that I see it this way, Sahelanthropus is a mobile suit. Before "Duh" and "know shit" I mean a legit from Mobile Suit Gundam Mobile suit.
>>15866365
>never gonna give you up
Jesus the military was rickrolling people before the internet.
>>15865732
>An actual joke
I'm glad she's not 100% wacky faces.
>>15866446
Everyone made jokes of Bush, but for half the people it was fun and games and for the other half it was mockery of a clearly incompetent President. It got less and less funny over time, although it was hard to full-on hate the guy because he was so charismatic. He was a dumb guy with a decent heart, most of the time.
People largely didn't make fun of Obama because Obama made it difficult. He was very careful not to have anything about him that it was easy to make fun of. Probably the most enduring joke throughout the eight years of his Presidency was "Thanks, Obama!", which was less making fun of him and more making fun of the people trying to blame shit on him like the recession that was quite clearly not his fault.
Trump is simultaneously easy to make fun of and extremely unfunny because of what he represents, and because he lacks any of Bush's charisma and decency. The mockery is much more aggressive and hostile this time around.
>>15866365
>>tfw wars will never get official government backed soundtracks ever again because muh profeshunalisms
Wait what? I'm not familiar.
>>15864519
True. I was watching the Howard Stern radio show of the day it happened, and once they realized it was an attack and not an accident, he went full "it's those fucking towelheads! We oughta glass that whole region"
>>15866483
>what he represents
Which is what exactly?
>>15866446
>make fun of Obama's weird rollercoaster speech
Fine.
>make fun of Obama's giant ears
Also fine. Just avoid monkey comparisons, because then you dive into potentially racist territory. Every politician has their features exaggerated for cartoons, though.
>make fun of his mustard choice
I guess????????? Not only is it super low-hanging but it doesn't even seem like fruit. Fucking dijon isn't fancy, it'd be like mocking someone for going to Whataburger, Steak n Shake, or Five Guy's instead of McDonald's.
>make fun of his stock phrases
Let me be clear, this is also fine.
There just wasn't a whole lot to him worth hitting on, and the stuff you could hit on was obviously blown up not because it was funny, but because people were fucking lunatics who seriously thought wearing a dumb hat and going to a "religious school in Indonesia" meant he was a Muslimeven though said school was Roman Catholic and he was praying to the Christian God. That's a far cry from painting Clinton as a womanizer or Trump as a handsy conman.
>>15864600
He was a kind of run of the mill VP, but he had some nice ideas. Just worded them badly (lockbox)
>>15866501
That great and glorious day when the plain folks of the land reach their heart's desire and the White House is adorned by a downright moron.
A moron who spits on our values while paying the most transparent lipservice to them, who thinks more about himself and his bank account than any group he purports to care for, who bases his actions on "ratings" on the news networks he claims he doesn't watch even as people--"his" people--are suffering all around him, whose idea of "the best people" are scumsuckers of the lowest and least qualified variety, and whose incurious nature and appalling lack of intelligence and good judgment sees a general dumbing-down of our institutions which can only spell disaster for us.
That, and it's a pretty poor reflection on a good chunk of America that they're either so hopped up on propaganda or hate for "the other side" that they'd elect a man who is so obviously unfit to run a hotdog stand, let alone a nation.
>>15866492
The US Military ran a psy-ops program where they blasted Noriega with 80's new wave and hair band songs.
They don't do that anymore.
>>15866504
>Catholic
I'm not really sure how that's any better than Muslims
Also,
>Catholic
>Christian God
HAHAHAHAHA
>>15866517
it was cheeto mussolini, or the she-devil.
drumpf balancing the supreme court was enough to sway me.
>>15866522
I mean, we blared metal music at entrenched targets during Iraq and Afghanistan. Is that so far in the past to not qualify as "anymore"?
>>15866517
You could easily mirror all of what you said For Her.
Take your dogma and pls leave. This has fuck off to do with giant rebutts.
>>15866522
Supposedly we hacked Iranian enrichment facilities and got into their PA systems blaring 'Thunderstruck'
>>15866526
>balancing the Supreme Court with a man who thinks you should die for your boss
Can't foresee this having a negative impact on anyone who wanted a right-wing judge, no sir. It's not like Republican voters have jobs or anything.
>>15866530There are kids who had dads in Afghanistan who are now in the middle east themselves
>>15866537
All that tells me is the quality of the music we're blasting at guys hiding in some building has gone down immensely.
>>15866532
You could, but you'd be lying to yourself. And us.
>>15866526
>it was cheeto mussolini
Ok that's an unfair comparison. Trump never personally beat half to death a senator for disagreeing with him, stuffing him in a trunk, and when asked about it on the parliament floor said "what of it?"
>>15866539
>ywn blast 80's pop at some spics
;_;
>>15866545
>tfw he just put three of his casino executives on a helicopter ride that he mysteriously opted out of in favor of a car trip to the same meeting, only to see the chopper crash and kill everyone on boardtrue facts about that though is that he was never scheduled to go in the helicopter with them, he just told everybody that after the fact because i guess he figured it made him seem more impressive or lucky????? what an asshole
>ugh i was totally supposed to be in the WTC / on one of those planes guys!! i just got a bad feeling that morning and stayed home ha ha
>>15866553
If the helicopter exploded I'd believe it's a conspiracy, but helicopters crash all the fucking time.
>>15865732
>hurr durr size is everything
Why are Metal Gear fans so shortsighted?
>>15865732
>I will now draw Snuffleupagus ridiculously big so that my joke works 200% better!
>>15866639
>>15866646
How autistic.
>>15865732
>>15866793
It's a comic that would fit right in in /v/'sLOLthreads. The ones that don't devolve into degenerate furfaggotry, anyways.
>>15866646
>>15866639
In the concept sketches for the walker gear/battle gear is a redesign of Metal Gear D.
>>15866828
And one concept for the Sahelanthropus clearly references Ray instead of Rex.
>>15866835
>S-whateverwhatever referencing RAY rather than REX
I need to see a complete version of this.
>>15866517
>our values
What are "our" values?
>>15866855
That's all there is of that in the Art of MSG V book. The notes are mainly scribbles in Japanese.
>>15866835
Building a proto-ray would make no sense, because the whole reason rays were built was to destroy the threat of metal gears, a threat which globally didnt exist yet.
>>15866483
think we can all agree that Joe Biden is the best VP we've had in a long time though
>>15866965
good ol' Double Barrel Joe
>>15866893
Wasn't that just a cover story and they were actually developed to defend that submarine from conventional armor and infantry
>>15864519
In 2001 and 2 maybe, but once Iraq cam up there was a lot of "hey Mr. President maybe this isn't necessary" with him coming out with his "you are either with us or you are with the terrorists" line. The Bush administration was pure intimidation toward the public after that and since everyone that wasn't a comedian refused to call them out (outside of Katrina) Americans fought themselves.
>>15863430
Generational would be more accurate
>>15867317
>came up
>>15867180
No that's the tiny mass-produced Rays. The giant ones are in fact anti-Metal Gear MGs.
>>15867317
Not him but that was more that "we're fine with fighting the terrorists, but what does Iraq have to do with that?"
>>15867180
Nah, remember that Solidus and Ocelot didn't build the original RAY prototype, they stole him from the USS Discovery tanker. The prototype was designed as a government failsafe in the event that another Shadow Moses Incident happened (funny as that's the whole point of MGS2), so that they would have a secret weapon for taking out the enemy's REX. RAY as it was originally made was specifically designed for destroying REX.
But as MGS4 showed us, Hal still built the superior machine. Even with it sitting in that open hanger, exposed to the cold for 9 years, it still was able to destroy RAY.
>>15867317
>The Bush administration was pure intimidation toward the public after that
>since everyone that wasn't a comedian refused to call them out (outside of Katrina) Americans fought themselves
>>15867349
Not him but there was a really big narrative pushed at the time that if you didn't support it, you were considered unamerican. Remember that this was back in the days when only really nerds used the internet and people still got their information from cable news.
>>15866523
>t. heretic
>>15865732
I don't get it.
>>15867348
Who designed the RAY, anyway? I mean, we all know who designed REX and my waifu MG Gander. Is REX just not as important?
>>15869328
*RAY not that important
>>15866517
>>15866526
The whole cult of personality surrounding Trump honestly kind of freaks me out a bit for how inexplicable it is to me. I mean, if someone told me they voted for him because they always vote republican no ifs ands or buts, or because they really, really didn't want Hillary to get it, I would have understood them. I would have strongly disagreed and considered it foolish, but I would have comprehended. It's vaguely relatable and human.
Trump though, it seems like he's got all these people hanging off his every word and nodding their heads sagely at every moronic and contradictory statement. They take every off the cuff remark he makes as an absolute truth and viciously attack the very notion that his word could be questioned, with special mention going to his ridiculous 'fake news' thing where any media source that doesn't sing his praises is entirely fabricated...and people take this to heart and disregard those sources. They sneer and jeer and mock and deflect whenever anything about him is called into question or doubted.
And this too would be comprehensible if he had even a drop of charisma, but he doesn't. This isn't Lex Luthor here, he's no charming intellect, he's a narcissistic manchild who quite openly does not give a fuck about anyone or anything besides himself and people go absolutely nanners for him. It's crazy and displays disconcerting implications about mass human psychology.
>>15869328
It might not have been a project led by any one person, but rather a group effort.
>>15869566
you don't mean
the La Li Lu Le Lo?!?
>>15869563
funnily enough, you can blame the hippies for trump. their attack on rationalism, and the whole post-modernism movement of the 60's led directly to the dissolution of the enlightenment ideals of rational, logic based reasoning. this managed to be kept in check for a while during the 80's, but the internet ripped the gates wide open for rationality and objectivity to be torn down. now "fake news" is used by everyone to attack things they disagree with.
tl;dr boomer fucking shits ruin ameria AGAIN
>>15869577
>dissolution of the enlightenment ideals of rational, logic based reasoning
As someone looking at America from the outside this seems like something the country has always particularly struggled with because of how deeply entrenched religion has always been there, since rational logic based reasoning is entirely at odds with the concept of faith as a virtue (i.e. the notion that blindly obeying and believing what you are told is a positive thing and scepticism is inherently bad). It seems like it might naturally incline a lot of religiously minded people to take other things on 'faith' as well.
>>15869600
Sad thing is that not only are you right, the irony is that it also applies to the so-called "skeptic atheists" who instead of shedding away religion entirely, they just made a new religion with whatever political beliefs they have.
>>15864519
War....War never changes
>>15869328
We don't know, it was just a US government project.
>>15869577
>>15869600
>>15869625
We've always been this way. The founding fathers were not a sample you could base the whole nation on. Even then Ben Franklin started our tradition of hating immigrants until they've been here long enough and assimilated and then we pretend we never had a problem with them, by writing a letter in 1750 bitching that too many Germans were moving here.
And stuff like the Trump fans or even the Tea Party is nothing new. Look up the Know Nothing Party.
>>15869842
yes, such elements have always existed, but its gotten incredibly bad these last few decades.
the erasure of a pluralistic society where people are expected to assimilate into the melting pot, the invention of the internet, and most importantly, the near total saturation of smartphones have fractured the american psyche into a trillion pieces. no one is willing to open themselves to criticism of their personal ideologies, and the politicians exploit this, until it slips beyond their control.
LIKE THE GOOD OL DAYS BEFORE 9/11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT4lDU-QLUY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYbe-35_BaA
>>15869873
It'll all collapse with peak oil anyway.
>>15869914
Here's the thing, the US actually reached peak production in the 70s. The peak oil scenario isn't reasonably going to happen to us because demand isn't high enough for there to be consequences for lower production. We use less and less oil than we used to.
>>15869939
For reference, we produced 3.5 billion oil barrels in 1970. In 2008 we produced 1.8 billion, which was a decades-long record high. We simply don't need as much oil as would be required to cause societal collapse.
>>15869600
The problem with trying to claim that logic and faith are separate things is that logic itself is an unprovable construct. You can't prove logic using logic since that's the logical fallacy of circular reasoning.
That doesn't mean logic is false, but it does mean that whether you like it or not, faith is necessary to use logic.
>>15870920
Look, I'm not trying to argue head-up-the-ass philosophy here, I'm positing out that a people don't tend to say "But why though?" very much when raised in a culture where the answer is always going to be "Just because" (or alternately, "Because I say so").
>>15866828
That would have been fun. Instead, we got more railgun wank. Enough with the fucking railguns already.
>>15867325
>tiny mass-produced Rays
They never seemed that small to me.
>>15871047
They are in comparison to the prototype and rising ones
>>15871047
Small enough that a normal submachine one is enough to destroy one.
>>15871077
submachine gun*
>>15871072
>>15871077
Indeed, compared to the monster in the Tanker episode, the ones Raiden fights look pretty damn small by comparison.
>>15865732
Sally looks dumb in a prequel game, but it would've been a legit brilliant idea for something in the Rising series.
>>15866517
And with this post and the question that occasioned it, the thread goes to shit.
>>15869914
Nope.
The correct answer is that it will all collapse...when automation becomes advanced enough that it renders the working-class, and even cheap foreign labor, irrelevant.
>>15871601
We'll probably just institute something like UBI at that point because really, we'll have no choice but to do it or we'll have a potential communist revolution on our hands.
>>15871676
Is this what the poor really think? You guys are going to get put in camps and you'll die like dogs without even realizing your masters are going to euthanize you. The upper middle class who have more technical, automation-resistant jobs, won't do a thing
>>15871676
They can't really do anything.
Populations, and thus money, power, and influence are increasingly being concentrated in urban areas.
Eventually, everything and everybody not in an urban area or major city will only exist to serve as food providers for the urban areas.
>>15871771
When large-scale factory hydroponics come into play we won't even need "rural food centers". We'll just plop down another skyscraper that produces fresh veggies year-round with no pesticides or human labor involved, to be shipped just 500 feet away to where it's needed.
>>15871775
True enough.
Works for me either way. Rural folk and their lifestyle need to die out. They've consistently shown a failure to adapt to the times.
>>15870920
Actually logic is built upon axiomatic statements, stuff that's inherently known to be true. Birds fly, fish swim, stuff like that. Observable knowns.
From that you are able to extrapolate and establish statements that are observed to be true until something proves it wrong beyond fringe cases (a nonzero number of bird species are not flight capable, for example), which then means you need to reconsider the original claim and refine it to make it more correct ("most birds fly").
Anyway if you want to talk truth evaluations in today's society, the real danger is we live in a post truth world where it doesn't matter what's right anymore, just memes and "but I heard X and the Internet never lies yknow." Being factually right isn't as important as being the dominant "truth."
>>15871833
It reminds me a lot of the nazis, and not for the reasons the internet loves to think. Put simply nazi idealogy was really big on Romanticism, pushing away the rationalism brought about by the British Enlightenment, instead preferring feelings over facts. That a "gut truth" is more important.
>>15863413
Everyone was pro-Bush until he made a fool out of himself publicly time and time again.
Then the 'war' escalated right before re-election, ensuring his victory as a hawk. Then, after victory, everyone went back to making Bush-so-dumb memes for their favorite internet forums.
Bush is about as dumb as a fox, he just plays the good-ole'-boy character to achieve all his schemes.
Did you live in a liberal household that was able to just shield your point-of-view the entire presidency? People were psyched about GWB the first go-around here in *Southern California*, one of the most liberal places on the planet.
>>15871833
Goes to show you that having facts on your side doesn't mean anything if you can't get people to trust you.
And if they feel like you view them with contempt, well that doesn't help either.
That's something that goes both ways. Le Pen in France may have spoke to feelings, but no one trusted her.
>>15863413
also to try and say that American Angst started with Bush is just wrong.
>>15871921
>Everyone was pro-Bush
hhhhhh, even hyperbolically this isn't true.
>People were psyched about GWB the first go-around here in *Southern California
Sweet anecdote.
He lost the fucking popular vote. He entered with a mid-50s approval rating. Squeaking into office thanks to some hanging chads didn't magically make the country love him. What the fuck is this revisionist history?
>>15871771
>>15871764
Anon the rich need the lower class because the lower class actually buys their shit. The reality is the middle class isn't as suspectible to marketing or impulse buying.
>>15871833
Don't you need logic to derive further truth from observable knowns? Not to mention the gap between what we observe to what we learn from that observation is completely insurmountable if we live in a simulation or if some unprovable basic assumptions are false (like if we did not even exist one second ago). I'm not really saying don't believe in logic, I'm just saying that you're taking that logic is true for granted. The alternative is observably worse in any case.
>Anyway if you want to talk truth evaluations in today's society, the real danger is we live in a post truth world where it doesn't matter what's right anymore, just memes and "but I heard X and the Internet never lies yknow." Being factually right isn't as important as being the dominant "truth."
Yeah. To some extent, this was always true, but the problem is definitely exaggerated due to the emphasis on emotions nowadays. Not believing in logic leads to disaster, at least more than believing in it.
>>15871978
If you start dabbling in what ifs, then you enter philosophical debate questioning what the meaning of truth ultimately is, which is a discussion for an entirely different thread, as interesting as the topic is.
MGS2, 5 and Rising are the only good metal gear games.
>>15866823
>>15866646
>>15866793
Hey at least the "I fired my only roboticist." part is funny because it's true
>>15872417
Nah.