Just finished reading the Gundam novels. AMA.

what was the most surprising thing you read in the books?

>>13320177

Hmm, that's a tough one to answer. Practically everything was different. It was nothing like the original show. Couple examples:

There is no Guntank. Kai and Hayato each pilot a Guncannon.

The entire story (all three novels) takes place in space. There is no Earth segment like in the cartoons. This is odd when you still have Garma attacking in his Gaw transporter...in space? It was disorienting visualizing that.

Since nothing took place on Earth, no aquatic mobile suits.

Char upgraded from a Red Zaku to a Red Rick Dom, as many people on here are already aware. He never piloted a Gelgoog. Actually there are no Gelgoogs at all. The Rick Dom is the most advanced Zeon suit developed by the end of the third novel (mobile armors not included).

who fuggs who?

>>13320203

Amuro and Sayla pretty early on. But (assuming the translation is correct), Tomino is inconsistent with the nature of their relationship.

Sometimes Amuro thinks he's in love with Sayla as a person. Other times he makes mental remarks about her that suggest he only lusts after her and they're only hooking up as stress relief.

Kai, Hayato, and Sleggar at one point were attracted to Sayla but pretty much back off once it comes out her and Amuro are doing the nasty.

Bright at one point considers inviting Mirai back to his quarters but never acts on it, or even hits on her. Sleggar never hits on Mirai either, he has almost no role in the novels and is nothing like his animated "all swagger" self.

Fraw Bow is never stationed on the ship so Hayato never falls for her. But, while left behind on Luna II, she does pine for Amuro in a lover-kind of way. And Amuro does miss her. But it seems he sees her mostly as a friend and loves her in that way. Her last scene in the novel is a bit ambiguous about their feelings for one another.

>>13320197
>The entire story (all three novels) takes place in space. There is no Earth segment like in the cartoons.
Then why do they have legs?

>>13320219
AMBAC.

>>13320219
Because fuck you it's cool

>>13320219
I assume you are referring to the mobile suits, in which case the answer is to take advantage of AMBAC and for use within colonies and on the moon.

>>13320223
Brass, pls. Zeong is 100%.

>>13320219

It's pretty much the same explanation given in the anime:

The invention of the Minovsky super compact fusion engine and the discovery of Minovsky particles that absorb radar and radio signals renders conventional warfare impractical.

So everything has to be done visually, which requires a humanoid MS that can react quickly with maneuvering, aiming, etc. but still packs the firepower of a cruiser's cannon.

They don't explicitly state, it but I presume the legs are for when the mobile suits operate inside the colonies or on asteroid bodies like the moon, Luna II, Solomon and A Baoa Qu.

There is no mention of limbs being used for AMBAC maneuverability. AMBAC is never brought up.

>>13320223
See I have a vague idea of what AMBAC is but where exactly did the term come from? Is it a Gundam thing because the usual quick google search turns up nothing. Most every gundamfag here is knowledgeable about it, so it's not like it's uncommon.

>>13320241

It's a theoretical way of maneuvering a mobile suit in space by moving its limbs and using inertia instead of using thrusters and wasting fuel in the process. AMBAC is never brought up in the novels.

Who lives and dies?

>>13320150
Does Zeon win?

>>13320259

I'm going to assume anyone reading this thread doesn't care about spoilers, so I'm not gonna tag anything accordingly. If anyone doesn't want the details of the novels spoiled, GTFO!

Unlike the anime, the final battle took place not at A Baoa Qu, but at the colony of Zeon's capitol, Zum City.

Long story short, Gihren powered up his solar ray colony laser while a battle was being fought at A Baoa Qu. He fired the laser at the battlefield, destoryed almost the entire Federation forces, a bunch of Zeon ships, and even destroyed A Baoa Qu (he was on Zum City at the time). He was trying to kill Kycilia and the Federation in one stroke.

Kycilia escaped, and she made an alliance with Char and the crew of the White Base-class ship, the Pegasus. They stormed the city. Kycilia killed Gihren, and Char killed Kycilia. This happened INSIDE the colony, not in the vacuum of space.

>>13320279

After the battle was over, Degwin (who is still ALIVE lol) is removed from power. Zeon's prime minister (a mere puppet) is voted in as the new leader of the Republic of Zeon.

Half (yeah, 50%) of the remaining Feddies voluntarily become Zeon citizens, and many of them even join its military.

Char stayed in the Zeon military. Now here's where shit gets weird.

Bright joins the Zeon military. As does Mirai. And many other Pegasus crew members.

Kai stays on with the Federation, even though the space forces are almost completely annihilated (+90%).

was it garbage?

>>13320288
>Half (yeah, 50%) of the remaining Feddies voluntarily become Zeon citizens, and many of them even join its military.
Why?

>>13320257

Again, not gonna bother with spoiler tags, you guys have already been warned.

Ryu dies fairly early on.
Hayato dies at A Baoa Qu.
Amuro dies shortly after.
Sleggar lives.

Garma, Dozle, Kycilia, and Gihren all die.
Degwin lives.

General Revil dies when Gihren fires the colony laser. But he was not attempting peace talks with Degwin. He was trying to take over A Baoa Qu.

If memory serves, Matilda and her fiance Lt Woody both live.

>>13320295

This was literally stated in the fifth-to-last paragraph of the last novel LOL. It doesn't really say, except that Char remains in the Zeon military helping with "its" reconstruction (not sure if they're referring to the military, or Zeon in general)...and it says Bright and the gang help him.

Toward the final battle, Kycilia, Bright, and the gang realized Gihren was the true enemy to all of mankind and decided to get rid of him. So I guess they assumed Zeon weren't inherently bad. Just the leaders at the top.

When they stormed Zum City, Gihren was trying to escape to safety in a limousine. Char, Kai, and six other mobile suits surrounded him.

Kycilia (who had ridden in an extra seat installed in Char's red Rick Dom) climbed out onto the MS's hand, and shot Gihren. Char then flung Kycilia and she fell to her death.

Then peace ensued, I guess.

>Amuro dies shortly after.

How the fuck did the best newtype in the whole universe die?

>>13320315
>Kycilia (who had ridden in an extra seat installed in Char's red Rick Dom) climbed out onto the MS's hand, and shot Gihren. Char then flung Kycilia and she fell to her death.

Hahaha holy shit Char

>>13320315
>Kycilia (who had ridden in an extra seat installed in Char's red Rick Dom) climbed out onto the MS's hand, and shot Gihren. Char then flung Kycilia and she fell to her death.
What a shitty way to die. And the others didn't react to him killing someone they formed an alliance with right in front of them?

>>13320315
>Kycilia (who had ridden in an extra seat installed in Char's red Rick Dom) climbed out onto the MS's hand, and shot Gihren. Char then flung Kycilia and she fell to her death.
What a dick move from Char.

>>13320292

This is a short, but loaded question.

On the one hand, as someone on here stated before I read the novels, the prose is...I presume, well translated, but the "style" of writing, leaves a lot to be desired.

Tomino goes into huge depths talking about the Newtype theory (which honestly doesn't interest me one bit), and he does a very poor job of developing many of the characters (not for a lack of trying, however.

If I hadn't watched the original anime first, I would have a hard time getting a grasp for the different characters.

Amuro, at the beginning of the novel, is already a Feddy cadet. So he doesn't go through all thr growing pains he does in the anime (the conflicts with Bright, especially).

Sleggar has almost no role and you don't see the conflict with him, Bright, and Mirai.

Fraw is not around, so you don't see the dynamics of their relationship first-hand.

The orphans are not onboard so their antics don't take place. Admittedly this is more realistic than having kids running around on a warship.

Oh, and I can't believe I hadn't brought this up yet, but HARO DOES NOT EXIST IN THE GUNDAM NOVELS. WTF!

>Oh, and I can't believe I hadn't brought this up yet, but HARO DOES NOT EXIST IN THE GUNDAM NOVELS. WTF!
It's shit.

>>13320241
I think South Burning mentions it in 0083. Either that or someone in ZZ.

>>13320319

In the most realistic way possible...get a load of this...

Char and Challia Bull decide they need to end the war and decide to enlist Amuro's help.

They go out, Challia in the Braw Bro, and Char in his Rick Dom.

Challia is trying to use his latent Newtype abilities to communicate to Amuro, asking him to help them to depose the Zabis and end the war.

He does a shitty job of communicating telepathically, and Amuro mis-interprets his psychic talk for hostility, and a battle ensues. Challia dies.

Amuro then realizes Challia was proposing a truce, and tries to communicate to the other Feddies to trust in Char. But he is distracted and a newbie pilot in a Rick Dom hits him with a bazooka, not realizing that Amuro had just come to his senses and was no longer a hostile.

Not all ace pilots die at the hands of an enemy ace. The Red Baron certainly didn't IRL.

>>13320323

They knew the alliance with Kycilia was a temporary measure to get rid of Gihren. I don't think they actually saw her as an ally. The novel doesn't say what their reaction was to Char killing her, but I can presume they turned a blind eye to it. It was convenient for them I suppose, and they didn't have to personally get their hands dirty to do it.

>>13320315
This is one of the endings in one of the Gihren's Greed games. If Amuro dies before Gihren, White Base forms an alliance with Kycilia and Char. There's probably an image of this somewhere.

>>13320319
IIRC (I'm not OP), he had to fly the Core Fighter in a straight line to contact the White Base (with laser-guided comms), so one of Char's wingmen kills him with a Rick Dom. Thing is, they were kinda trying to get into an alliance (Char and Amuro), but Char's wingmen didn't know of this.

>>13320315
>Toward the final battle, Kycilia, Bright, and the gang realized Gihren was the true enemy to all of mankind and decided to get rid of him. So I guess they assumed Zeon weren't inherently bad. Just the leaders at the top.
Not just that. They more or less say the EF leaders are the same.

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>>13320340
fucking shit

So how about lalah what is her role?

>>13320297

I just remembered a couple other character fates...

Ramba Ral and his fiancee (wife?) Hamon both live.

The Black Tri-stars never make a firsthand appearance in the novels, and are only mentioned when talking about the Battle of Loum where they took General Revil hostage. Amuro never fights them so I presume they live.

Dozle's wife Zenna, and his daughter Mineva are mentioned exactly one time, right before Dozle dies. Oh, and the Big Zam fought in space. It didn't fight on the surface of Solomon, so it never even used its legs to walk around. WTF. Sleggar never fought against it, so he never died.

After the war ended, Sayla spent the rest of her life uneventfully on Earth.

Luna II (the Feddy's space headquarters) was given to Zeon for them to control. Fraw spent the rest of her life on Luna II raising the orphans as their adoptive mother.

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>>13320355
Also, the guy who killed Amuro was named Leroy Gilliam. There was an SD G Gen character named the same, but they retconned his name to something else.

How does the battle with Big Zam go?
Do Lalah and Elmeth make an appearance if Amuro dies after encountering Challia?

>>13320369
But the Big Zam fought in space in the anime/movies too. I believe you're only remembering the first part of the battle, before the Solar Ray is fired on Solomon.

>>13320355
>IIRC (I'm not OP), he had to fly the Core Fighter in a straight line to contact the White Base (with laser-guided comms), so one of Char's wingmen kills him with a Rick Dom. Thing is, they were kinda trying to get into an alliance (Char and Amuro), but Char's wingmen didn't know of this.

This is partially true...yes, he was trying to communicate with the Pegasus and having difficulty because of the shitload of Minovsky particles that were making communication practically impossible.

They didn't specifically state anything about flying in a straight line, though they did use laser communication at short distances for communication.

And Amuro was killed while piloting the G3 Gundam, not the Core Fighter.

Funny thing, Amuro's RX-78-2 is destroyed at the end of the first novel (during a battle with Char inside the Texas colony). At the beginning of the second novel he is rescued but quickly destroys the Core Fighter to prevent it from falling into enemy hands.

After he is given the G3 Gundam, the Core Fighter is never mentioned again and he only sorties in the Gundam.

>>13320357

Oh, shit, you just reminded me of something. They said at least two separate times in the novel, that after they got rid of Gihren, their next target after that was the Feddy leaders stationed in Jaburo. Yes, the Pegasus crew was going to wipe out their leaders.

>>13320384
Ah, so that was it. The bit about flying in a straight line is from the first time they explain laser comms - since you had to direct the laser beam towards a stationary ship that's far away, you have to fly straight, or the laser will miss the target everytime you move. That's why those comms are last resort - they're very easy to intercept too.

>>13320384
>After he is given the G3 Gundam, the Core Fighter is never mentioned again and he only sorties in the Gundam.
Since the G3 is just a testbed for the magnetic armor (at least in the MSV profile) it's possible it didn't have a core fighter, since those were escape vehicles for the learning computer first and foremost.

>>13320403
I think all Project V units had Core Fighters.

>>13320373

Very similar to its anime counterpart. Big Zam takes off from Solomon with Dozle and two other pilots in it. They shoot at Amuro/Kai/Hayato but the trio are all devloping Newtype powers and are great at dodging and shit.

Amuro flies up from below and destroys one of the Big Zam's legs. He then sees Dozle's "energy" (just like in the anime) and sees Dozle on top of the Big Zam firing a handheld rifle at him. And Amuro kills him.

I was disappointed that the novel only hinted that Dozle was a kind-hearted man. He never actually ordered his men to eject from the Big Zam. I assume they died when it was destroyed. But he did have his wife and daughter evacuate Solomon before it fell.

>>13320373

Lalah actually shows up pretty early on. Amuro enters the Texas colony, sees her inside and gets the whole Newtype vibe from her. Char shows up, takes her away, and they battle out out at the end of the first novel.

In the second novel she fights Amuro in the Elmeth and dies. But not because she was trying to protect Char. Amuro just killed her, then regretted it afterward.

Then another Newtype girl named Kuzko Al is introduced, and she becomes the pilot of a second Elmeth. Amuro kills her too.

Then it's Dozle in the Big Zam, then Challia Bull in the Braw Bro. There is no Zeong in the novels.

>>13320373

When Amuro dies he does have some sort of Newtype interaction with Lalah and Kuzko's spirits. And he reaches out to all of his friends asking them to join forces with Char to defeat Gihren.

>>13320379

Yeah, you're right, I'm just remembering it walking around. That part where it's melting all the GMs and shit never happened. Big Zam pretty much only fought the Gundam and Guncannons.

>>13320403

Not too sure. I know the Guncannons are described as having Core Fighters because Ryu, Amuro, Kai, and Hayato all do training exercises in them several times.

When the G3 is introduced all they mention is that it's gray, and has the magnetic coating. It's implied it is otherwise identical to the white RX-78/2 unit but never specifically stated if it uses the Core system or not.

Im your opion. Are the books horrible compared to the original anime/movie

>>13320403

The only times the Core Fighter was mentioned as an escape pod, it was implied it was to increase the pilot's chances of surviving the mobile suit's destruction.

In the novel, there was actually no mention of a learning computer of any kind. It's implied the Gundam's battle strength comes solely from Amuro's Newtype talents.

I know in other material it is stated the learning computer is located in the Core Fighter so that would make sense too if a learning computer is stated as being used.

>>13320441
>When Amuro dies he does have some sort of Newtype interaction with Lalah and Kuzko's spirits
But did he get Kuzko to move the location of his swimming pool

>>13320406
I know the Guntank and Gundam did but I don't recall the guncannon ever demonstrating a core block system.

>>13320444

Like I stated earlier, knowing what I know now, I would say the anime is superior to the novels when it comes to "character development" and "emotional conflict."

I fucking love 0079 for that. When the final battle was taking place, and Guntank, Guncannon, and the Gundam were all destroyed, everyone was floating in different places in A Baoa Qu, and the White Base was finally sunk, I felt like a small part of me died. And I was happy when everyone was reunited, safe and sound (aside from Ryu obviously).

The novels are more of a technical curiosity. It goes into great detail about the physics of space technology, from colonies, space suits, communication, politics, stuff like that.

But as far as the story itself, it's so-so. A great read for any scifi fan, but it definitely doesn't have the heart and soul of 0079. And I say that in the most respectful way possible to Gundam's source material.

>>13320458

They never show it in the anime but there's concept sketches floating around of the core block concept that shows all kinds of trippy combinations...

Guntank upper with Guncannon legs.
Guntank upper with Gundam legs.
Guncannon upper with Guntank treads.
Gundam upper with Guntank treads...and Gundam's legs hanging off the back.

At least that's how the system was visualized. Obviously they never showed anything like that in the anime. And the novels never show the Guncannons coming apart. But it is implied they have Core Fighters in them.

In the anime, by limiting the Core Block system to just the Gundam, they were able to market the G-fighter and all those other stupid configurations that were pure toy porn. So take that for what you will.

Couple other cool bits that just came back to me...

Gihren was fucking his secretary (big surprise, I know). But it was implied he had been with many women over the years, one of which, was Hamon, Ramba Ral's squeeze. And Ramba was aware of it.

Ramba is described as being a thin young man. No mention of being an older, heavyset man with a mustache. No mention of a mustache FML. Oh, and he is the head of Gihren's Secret Police. Not a mobile suit pilot. No Goufs ever appear in the novels. And he never fights Amuro, so there is no "No Zaku boy" scene that occurs.

Kycilia wears her mask because she can't stand the stench of warfare apparently.

Garma doesn't really die because of a betrayal by Char. Garma gets overconfident he can take the Pegasus out, charges stupidly into battle in his Gaw, and gets his shit fucked up. Char was in the area, but wasn't really in a position to save Garma. Regardless, he is blamed for not protecting Garma and gets shit for it from Dozle and kicked over to Kycilia.

Char has a large, nasty-looking scar on his forehead. It's not small by any means.

Federation pilots have this tradition of keeping amulets on their person as a good-luck charm to help them survive battle. It is a locket of pubic hair from whatever girl they are banging, taped to a piece of paper and folded up. They call it an "amulet". Kai and Hayato found out Amuro didn't have a locket and demanded he ask Sayla for one, because they didn't want him to die in battle (and increase the odds of them dying too)

OP here. Gonna turn in for the night. If this thread is still around tomorrow I'll keep posting and answering questions.

>>13320542
Did Hayato and Kai have amulets? Good night

One question: Is it true Degwin hoped that had Garma lived, he would overthrow Gihren?

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>>13320483
>Gundam upper with Guntank treads...and Gundam's legs hanging off the back.
Best part.

Which novels? Are they translated in english?

Did Bright slap anyone?

>>13320757
Yeah, they got the subtitles of Awakening, Escalation and Confrontation. The collected edition is recommended, since the translation in the older singles have odd name spellings.

>>13320826
but you don't get to hear about Sha and his Zak that's faster than the other ones!

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>>13320223
>AMBAC
>needed
top brass fuck off

>>13320369
>After the war ended, Sayla spent the rest of her life uneventfully on Earth.
so just like in the anime

>>13320279
>>13320288
This sounds mostly better actually. I'm glad Tomino didn't kill off Amuro so early in the anime, but I wonder how neat the movies might have been if he incorporated a lot of things from this (like more people having Guncannons instead of the medley of this and that); in fact the general MS lay out seems more focused on the best designs which is fine with me.

I quite like the idea of Feddies joining post war Zeon, and could see how this would lead better in to Zeta.

>>13320197
>Actually there are no Gelgoogs at all
Into the trash.

>>13320150
Is it true that Kycilia shot Gihren in the dick?

>>13320150
I have heard in the novel Amuro dies in Texas colony in an alternate interpretation of the battle where he fought Char's Gelgoog in the anime (but in his Zaku in the novels.)

I have also heard that the rx-78-2 was destroyed before the battle of Aboa Qu, and the G3 was piloted by someone else entirely.

>>13320547

OP is back. Nice to see there was more interest while I was asleep. :)

Judging by Kai and Hayato's reactions upon learning Amuro didn't have an amulet, it can be assumed they both have amulets. Hayato specifically shows Amuro his, and Kai asks who he got it from but Hayato won't reveal.

Women in the Federation Forces are referred to as "Waves" (dunno what that means) but I assume they both got amulets from Waves on some Federation base (maybe Luna II), and not from someone on the Pegasus. Sayla and Mirai were the only notable women mentioned as being on the Pegasus.

Amuro asked Sayla for an amulet on the pretense of Kai and Hayato only forcing him to get one for their own safety. Sayla was offended but didn't give Amuro the amulet. Later on he admitted to her he actually did want an amulet for himself but was too embarrassed to just ask for it.

He never actually got one, and his actually dying in the story makes you wonder. ;)

>>13320670

They did specifically mention during Garma's funeral that Degwin hoped that he and Garma together would be able to overthrow Gihren.

The way the Zeon government was structured was (in order of power):

1. Degwin
2. Zeon Prime Minister
3. Gihren
4. Dozle
5. Kycilia

On paper, the prime minister was running the show, and Degwin would approve or disapprove his actions. But everyone really knew Gihren was in control of everything. The prime minister was just a puppet, just like Degwin himself was.

>>13320752

Thank you for finding this, I had it on my phone but couldn't find it on the computer. I wish they'd used some of these configurations in the anime. Then again I suppose that's why they went with the G-Fighter, etc.

>>13320822

No, everyone on the show was already enlisted in the military, so discipline was never a problem. He and Amuro never even got into arguments. He did come across as being very young for the skipper of a ship (as he should be), and thought to himself that Mirai was very attractive. Those were the only things about him that resembled his animated self.

>>13320912

Yeah. She chose to return there because she grew up there. Char told her he would stay in space to continue Amuro's work (doesn't elaborate on what that is but I assume discovering how Newtypes could be used to improve mankind's destiny for good, not for bad.)

>>13320921

Considering that the show ended about ten episodes earlier than it should have (due to poor ratings) there's a very good chance we might have seen some semblance of this ending (with Amuro surviving in all likelihood). In the novels Challia Bull is present for most of the third novel, where in the anime he is there for literally all of ONE whole episode and dies. So there was a lot of meat to the story that was cut out due to time constraints.

>>13321202

At first I was going to say "no, just in the chest" but upon re-reading the scene, the preceding sentence says she "trained her gun on his private parts."

Damn, Kycilia. You one cold bitch.

>>13321320

You're half right. The climax of the first novel takes place inside the Texas colony. Amuro's RX-78/2 vs. Char's red Zaku and Lalah in the Elmeth. Also, the Pegasus ship enters the colony and fights Char's Zanzibar, which also flew into the colony.

Both mobile suits basically destroy each other. Lalah dies and the Elmeth is destroyed. The Pegasus destroys the Zanzibar, but is also sunk itself. This part kinda surprised me, thinking the Pegasus would survive until A Baoa Qu, but then they reveal there was a second White Base-class ship built, that they rename the Pegasus II.

During the battle, Sayla escaped the Pegasus in a dune buggy to look for Char. When Pegasus was sinking she unknowingly used her Newtype powers to lead everyone to safety as the ship was being destroyed and the colony was falling apart. So most of the crew of Pegasus I made it onto the Pegasus II.

Amuro did survive the battle by ejecting from his RX-78/2 in his Core Fighter. He later destroys the Core Fighter and is given the G3 which he pilots until A Baoa Qu where he is killed. No one else piloted the G3 at any point. Only Amuro.

>>13322501
I thought Char got to pilot a red RX-78? Or was that just in a game and he keeps the Rick Dom?

More random facts that came back to me:

M'Quve is killed in his cruiser just outside the Texas colony. He never pilots a mobile suit, or is even suggested as being capable of piloting a mobile suit.

Char was fucking Kycilia's scretary, and in the last scene with her before he took off for the battle of A Baoa Qu, he told her he wanted her to bear his child.

While on Luna II, Fraw Bow was working as a mechanic. People made fun of her because she chose to wear lipstick despite her profession. She was doing it because she wanted to be pretty when Amuro returned to her. It's implied that they were ostensibly just friends, but she grew to love him in his absence.

When Amuro died, his spirit (literally like a Star Wars Force ghost) visited Fraw. She didn't even realize he was just a ghost until he told her he couldn't see her anymore because he was already dead.

The Federation forces never had a "Solar Ray" system of mirrors in space that they used against Solomon. Only Zeon had that in the form of their colony laser. Good for two shots only. Gihren wanted the first shot (a test shot at low power) to hit the federation forces next to A Baoa Qu. He then wanted the second, full power shot to his the Feddies, then "accidentally" strafe sideways and hit A Baoa Qu, "unintentionally" killing Kycilia in the process.

This would be accomplished by firing retro rockets and re-pointing the colony while it was in the process of firing. Gihren then demanded to know who authorized the re-alignment, worried about his sister, and ordered Ramba Ral to execute the man responsible (even the the guy claimed he was only following Gihren's orders LOL).

Kycilia was warned earlier by Hamon about Gihren's plot to kill her and instead of being on A Baoa Qu during the battle, she was on her capital ship. So she was able to escape his attempt on her life.

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>>13322686
That's from Gihren's Greed

>>13322686

I think that was just in a game. He only goes from the Red Zaku to a red Rick Dom. He never pilots anything else.

>>13322706
>>13322704
Ah, makes sense then.

What tomino books are available in english

>>13322733

I don't know about any of his other works, but I think I picked up my copy of the Gundam novels (all three in one volume) off of ebay for like $13. They also have it on Amazon too I think.

>>13320518
I just can't see the Garma scene happening in space.

>>13320430
>In the second novel she fights Amuro in the Elmeth and dies
Lalah is killed in the first novel.
>>13320203
>>13320215
Char also gets with one of Kycillia's secretaries.

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Just got done watching this episode. Holy fuck, the invasion sequence was amazing. Ramab Ral's characterization was excellent and was sad to see him go.

>>13322739

Yeah I thought the animated version of his death was so iconic. Char laying a trap, using the White Base to kill him and gloating to him about his betrayal over the radio. Garma piloting the Gaw himself in a suicide run and crashing to the ground in a fiery heap.

It happened more or less the same way (minus Char's betrayal), but the Gaw blew up and turned into a ball of light when it was destroyed.

>>13322837

Yeah that's my bad. The Texas battle took place mostly at the end of the first novel and spilled a bit into the second. But yeah she died in the first.

>>13322846
>ye olde noble soldier archetype when there hasn't actually been a war as long as he's been alive until this one which only started a few months ago

>>13322846

This is what I'm talking about when I say 0079 has heart and soul. The bad guys are not one-dimensional evil warmongers.

Ramba Ral is an honorable soldier who loves Hamon, will do anything to protect his men, and lives to fight and defend his country.

Hamon herself takes a liking to Amuro and similarly cares about the soldiers serving under Ramba.

Dozle also care for his soldiers and family. Degqin mourns the loss of his son. Hell, even Kycilia is horrified by the thought of Gihren killing their father.

Even the lowly Zeon pilots that leave supplies for the mother and child that left the White Base. An anime doesn't *have* to show little things like this when they could just squeeze in more robot battles and explosions. But it does, and really humanizes the characters in the process.

Combined with the fact that a lot of Federation top brass make decisions that are morally gray, it just goes to show you that war is not black and white, good vs. evil.

>>13322885
>Even the lowly Zeon pilots that leave supplies for the mother and child that left the White Base
And then Amuro shoots them down

>>13322885
And then Zeta shits all over that with the Saturday morning cartoon villain Titans whose only sympathetic character defects almost immediately to the good guys

>>13322871

Gundam the Origin goes into it more explicitely, but even in the novels they suggest that Ramba was around during the time of the Zabi uprising, the murder of Zeon Deikun, etc. So even if there wasn't outright "war" as you put it he could very well have been involved in many smaller conflicts.

Don't forget that Tomino has a hard-on for nobility-types, and the old ways of waging war. So honor and all that was a big thing then. Not like black ops, killer drones, long range missiles, etc. that are so prevalent today.

>>13322904

Yes, another example of Feddies not always doing the right thing. He thought he was doing his duty by shooting down an enemy, but we as the audience know that these soldiers cared about the woman and her child, and aren't necessarily "bad" guys.

Great way of illustrating that morality in war is never cut and dry. You think Hitler actually thought of himself as an evil man?

>>13322907

Yeah, the only things I enjoyed about Zeta was when all the characters from 0079 showed up. Pregnant Fraw. Mirai looking more womanly. Amuro looking more mature. Hayato being all sumo-like. Kai acting like a secret agent journalist type. The orphans now young teenagers. Amuro and Char seeing each other again for the first time in seven years. Even when they went to Axis and you see all the old-school Zeon uniforms, space suits, etc. That was about it for me.

>>13322904
>And then Amuro shoots them down
Yeah, because they found his position. If he hadn't shot them down then he would have put the entire white base at danger. Just because those soldiers showed kindness to some earthlings doesn't change the fact that the are currently trying to impose contollism onto billions of earthnoids. It doesn't change the fact that it is because of the war that they started that the woman and child's home was destroyed in the first place (the two soldiers even admit to this).

Amuro did nothing wrong.

>>13322907
>hose only sympathetic character defects almost immediately to the good guys

Did /m/ even watch Zeta?

>>13322871
technically there was stuff going on in the background with zeon if you count origin

>>13322570
>So there was a lot of meat to the story that was cut out due to time constraints.

Here is the supposed episode outline for the series back when it was still 52 episodes.

http://gundam.aeug.org/archives/2001/04/0341.html

>>13320921
>This sounds mostly better actually

If you are a delusional zeon fanboy I guess it sounds better. Otherwise it is absolutely awful and is just so contrived it is impossible to take it seriously.

>>13323027

Good stuff, thanks for posting.

Are there any Mobile Suits exclusive to the novels?

>>13324895

No, for the Feddys it's only the Gundam/Guncannon/GM/Ball

For some reason in the novels, they call the Ball "Mister Ball" lol.

Zeon has:

Zakus/Rick Dom/Elmeth (x2)/Big Zam/Braw Bro

The only vehicles I didn't recognize right off the bat were the Federation's "Fly Manta" atmospheric fighters, and Zeon's "Dopp". But only because I knew OF them, just didn't know their proper names.

Come to think of it, since the novels never visit earth Zeon's tanks never make an appearance either.

>>13322416
>Women in the Federation Forces are referred to as "Waves" (dunno what that means) but I assume they both got amulets from Waves on some Federation base (maybe Luna II), and not from someone on the Pegasus. Sayla and Mirai were the only notable women mentioned as being on the Pegasus.

WAVES was a US Navy term from WWII: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WAVES

>>13322416
>>13325976
IIRC, Sleggar calls Mirai a Wave in the ending of the second movie.

>>13322907
Not true.
Only Ramba and those Zeon pilots are sympathetic.
Zeta also has sympathetic characters working for the Titans.It doesn't have many because of the nature of the Titans.

>>13323011
not the poster of that post, but there were only 3 titans that I felt sympathetic towards them, Emma, Buran, and that Asshimar pilot during the takeover at Dakar

>>13326027
What about that Zeon hoverbike soldier who attempted to stick timebombs on the Gundam and then got is own story in a manga later? I forgot his name

>>13326033
The funny thing about that is that if they'd just done that exact same attack again but with 10 minute timers instead of 30 they'd have destroyed it.

Seriously, who the fuck uses a 30 minute time delay in combat? Were they trying to make sure the pilot had enough time to get away safely before the Gundam exploded?

But yeah, the only reason those guys even went after the Gundam is because they were told that if they pulled it off they could go home to their families.

>>13326027
Movie trilogy watcher detected

>>13320315
>>13320320
>>13320323

Kai is specifically called out as hating Char for how offhandedly (lololol) he kills Kycillia; it's likely the reason he remains with the EFF. Also Sayla pees herself (again) when Amuro dies.

I just noticed the PDF I'm looking at is the updated version with the 'correct' names for everyone. Somewhere around here I have a PDF of the 'old' version. I should take a look at that. I do like these novels for the same reason I like the novelizations to the first Star Wars trilogy; you're mainly reading shit made from earlier versions of the story outline so all sorts of odd quirks show up like weird differences to iconic characters/situations/lines, hints that the overall story was going somewhere different (in the case of Gundam it went way different, obviously) and the luxury of text offering internal monologues that give you some additional context to what characters are thinking/feeling/doing. It's cool shit.

>>13325976

Very interesting. I should have assumed it came from an actual military term, and not something made up.

>>13327275

Yeah I re-read the scene and Char gives some sort of speech to the troops after killing Kycilia and Kai realizes right then and there that he hated Char. Good observation re: him staying with the EFF.

And yeah, Sayla did lose control of her bladder when Amuro died.
...

Another interesting thing I came across in the story that I forgot to mention concerned Matilda, Lt. Woody, and Amuro. In the anime they made it seem as though Matilda was already engaged when we first saw her, and we just weren't aware of it until we met Lt. Woody.

In the manga, they specifically state that she was not engaged when she first appeared, and Lt. Woody only proposed to her because he felt threatened that she would fall in love with Amuro. So he proposed to her first. Very interesting difference.

Yeah I read the original Star Wars novelizations and it is very interesting to see the differences between them and the movies. Things like showing more of Luke's time on Tattooine, Biggs Darklighter having a bigger role (whereas in the movie you're like, "who the fuck is this?". Stuff like that. Very cool when you don't have to compress an entire story into two hours.

Ironically I had the opposite feeling when reading Gundam. It felt very rushed, like it didn't have time to really delve into personalities and emotional conflicts, and simply rushed through the physical conflict of war, physics, technology, politics, etc. while preaching about the Newtype theory. If it had been six novels instead of three, maybe Tomino could have developed the characters a little better.

The anime had such iconic characters that were brushed over in the printed form. Kai was never a smug jerk that reformed himself. Sleggar was never a smooth ladie's man, etc.

what about Amuro's family? what happened with his dad and his mom?

>>13327938

That's a good one. In the novels, Tem Ray is a colony architect, and leaves Earth with Amuro so he can show his son the colonies.

His wife, Kamaria, stays behind because she claims to prefer living on Earth. In reality, there is the suggestion that she was having an affair with someone else and didn't want to leave that person behind.

In the novels Amuro had a dream of sorts where he found his mother lying naked in bed with I believe a Federation soldier. I doubt that actually happened in real life but it says to me Amuro strongly suspected his mother was unfaithful and resented her for not loving him enough to come to space with him.

Tem Ray has no real role in the novels. He is not a mobile suit engineer, and never creates the Tem Ray circuit. Furthermore, there is no mention of him losing his mind due to oxygen deprivation, etc.

>>13326076
They might have been hoping Amuro wouldn't notice the explosives and dock into White Base so as to kill two birds with one stone. Alternatively they were considering the entertainment value of the drama that unfolded with Amuro removing the bombs. They were way more amused watching the bomb disposal through binoculars than they were watching the shitty magic show they're treated to at the beginning of the episode. Hell they're not even mad when their plan is foiled and go so far as to change into civilian clothes, pile up in a car, and drive by to personally pay respects to the White Base crew still on the ground. It's my favorite episode because of shit like that.

>>13328236

His mom really is kind of a bitch. Not as much of an overt bitch as Kamille's mom, or parents in general, but srsly.

Am I a bitch for crying at the ending?

Amuro's death wasn't all that sad (pretty fucking realistic, actually) but it's his newtype ghost's farewell to everyone that really got me, particularly his final interaction with Fraw.

Shit made my heart sink. I wonder how Zeta would've gone if they went with the novelized version?

Does Hamon still have her rocking hair?

>>13327275
Where did you find the corrected novels? I looked around but some of the links I found were dead.

>>13322501
The one who did the Brightslapping in the novels was Mirai herself.

>Mirai acted like an older sister to the younger men, and it was no wonder she was one of the ship’s most popular Waves. Amuro recalled Kai having once said, “Wife material. That’s what she is. Two years older than me … but, yep, I like that idea.” And of course Hayato had agreed wholeheartedly. But Mirai was also as smart as a whip and had another side to her. She had an uncanny ability to discover shoddy work, and more than one young crewman had had his ears boxed by her. It was this dual personality, perhaps, that made her so attractive. Once Ryu had once boasted, “Hell, I never screw up, so she never slaps me,” whereupon someone else chimed in, “Hey, when she does, it feels good!”

>>13320328
>Tomino goes into huge depths talking about the Newtype theory
awww i'd like to hear about it

>>13329310

That's a good point. Docking the Gundam before the bombs went off would have been much more devastating to the White Base.

>>13329767

I wish I could agree, but the truth is that they just didn't flesh her out enough (both in the novels or anime) for her to give me that strong of an impression.

In the anime, she loved the earth too much to leave it, and was saddened by the soldier that her son had become, that he would be willing to brandish a pistol and kill an enemy soldier.

In the manga, she simply chose not to join Tem and Amuro into space and Amuro merely suspected she was cheating on his dad and didn't love him (Amuro) enough to follow him to Side 7. She was never explicitly caught cheating, so her true motivations are at best unclear.

>>13330104

I got a little teary-eyed when he was saying his final farewell to Fraw. Knowing how much she wanted to see him again, and wore the lipstick for him, and didn't even realize he was just a Force ghost-- erm, Newtype ghost. Shit hit me right in the feels.

>>13330238

They don't go into too much of a description of her except to imply that she worked as a performer at the same club Gihren's secretary worked at at some point. But they do imply she is generally attractive.

>>13333929

Good one, I forgot about that. I don't think I'd mind being Mirai-slapped myself.

>>13334018

No, you really don't. It's long and drawn out, and a rehash of all the same shit they spew in the novels. Mankind's destiny, a race-wide awakening, new dawn, universal understanding and all that BS.

>>13334464
>No, you really don't. It's long and drawn out, and a rehash of all the same shit they spew in the novels. Mankind's destiny, a race-wide awakening, new dawn, universal understanding and all that BS.
i love that kinda bullshit though i'm not much hard science anyway

File: stinky jewfro.png (448KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

448KB, 640x480px

>>13327163
No.

>>13320150
Where do more people die? The show or the novels?

>>13334464
>No, you really don't. It's long and drawn out, and a rehash of all the same shit they spew in the novels. Mankind's destiny, a race-wide awakening, new dawn, universal understanding and all that BS.
That's all that Gundam's good for.

>>13327163

You say it almost as if watching the movies is a bad thing.

>>13320441
>When Amuro dies he does have some sort of Newtype interaction with Lalah and Kuzko's spirits. And he reaches out to all of his friends asking them to join forces with Char to defeat Gihren.

Feels like Obiwan in here

>>13334923

It's hard to say which gave me an impression of more deaths. The novels explicitly state half the entire human population had died because of the war, and Gihren was justifying Zeon's genocide as being necessary to reverse the population explosion.

A lot of the space battles were initially smaller conflicts, but the scope increased as the story progressed. By the end you had the colony laser wiping out nearly the entire EFSF fleet, etc. So I visualized it as being similar to the rebels vs. the empire in Return of the Jedi (the space battle over Endor).

The novels don't go into detail about the colony gassings. Just a brief mention about colony drops, the use of nukes and the antarctic treaty.

The anime on the other hand showed the devastation to planet Earth, and really gave me a better sense of the collateral damage and cost of war. Seeing the colony plow into Sydney, etc. And the space battles similar were similarly large in magnitude as in the novels.

So overall, I'd have to call it about even between the two.

>>13336313

I really got a strong impression of Star Wars from reading the novels. I know the SW movie, and MSG anime each came out in '78 and '79, respectively. I don't know about the written Star Wars story vs. the first MSG novel, but Tomino's extensive talk about Newtypes, potential for superhuman abilities, etc. really felt like it was influenced by the Force. Just with a stronger "military story" feeling, whereas SW is more of a space opera, or fantasy space fairy tale.

>>13339043
newtype seems to me to draw more from the effects of the spice from Dune than the force